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Ryu-Gi
13-06-10, 04:38
Not what you think. A very interesting article I found that some people we know might find really eye-opening.

http://www.bitmob.com/articles/my-four-year-old-son-plays-grand-theft-auto

Catracoth
13-06-10, 04:42
Hmm, a very interesting article. It definitely is an eye opener to people worldwide who have their knickers in a twist about exposing minors to games such as Grand Theft Auto - perhaps this will desensitise them to the controversy and the often taboo discussions about what is and is not appropriate for children to view in video games.

What this mother did was a spot-on approach to proper parenting. While I wouldn't have my child play the game until he was well at the proper age, she was phenomenal and actually took the time to sit with him, explain to him the rights and wrongs throughout the game, and give positive/negative reinforcement during his gameplay.

Kudos to her.

Shark_Blade
13-06-10, 05:08
I like that kind of parent who took time to sit down and explain things to children. :)
Nowadays parents just leave children to do their things or prohibit things from them entirely without reasoning.

amaris
13-06-10, 05:59
Wow, that's really cool that his son knows right from wrong like that at such a young age! I'm Fourteen and a won't touch a GTA game. :p

TombOfRaiders
13-06-10, 08:28
When I was ten, I played San Andreas. But four years old!?

Ward Dragon
13-06-10, 08:39
That story is adorable :D I've never played GTA because the concept doesn't appeal to me, so I never realized it had missions like that in it. I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable at the thought of leaving a four year old alone with such a game, but on the other hand with the parent right there watching the whole experience I think it's perfectly fine. Age ratings don't really matter as long as the parent is actually aware of what their child is capable of and making sure that the child isn't having a bad reaction to the game.

Doctorb
13-06-10, 09:38
I wonder if the parent shows the kid 18 movies and porn as well. :D

Alive_and_Funky
13-06-10, 10:05
This story might sound sweet to some, but not to me. Even with a parent guiding their child through the game, there is still some content that they will not be able to block. For instance, every now and again when the main character crashes his car, he aggressively uses expletives. Also, there are quite a few women who don't wear many clothes in the game, who the minor may very well end up walking or driving past. And what about the rival gangs that shoot at you, or the swearing on the radio stations?

Here's one quote from the article that particularly bothered me, though:

At one such intersection he attempted to brake, but he was traveling too fast. Instead of plowing into the rear of the car ahead of him, he swerved to the right and popped up onto to sidewalk. In doing so, he accidently ran over a woman walking towards his oncoming car. He was incredibly ashamed of himself and profusely apologized.

“It’s okay. It’s only a game. It’s not real”, I reassured him. After a few minutes of me explaining the difference between a game and real life, he felt comfortable enough to continue playing.

Whenever I accidentally run somebody over on GTA, I tend to feel rather guilty (I even wait for a bit to check if I've killed the person or not). This child understandably feels guilty too, but is then told that it's okay because it is just a game. Now, I'm not saying that everybody should feel bad when running someone over on GTA, but this child has been taught not to feel guilty about it, so when they run people over again, they'll be fine with it. Personally, I don't feel that this is a good attitude for the child to grow up with. I have another issue that is similar to this one as well:

Only seconds later, he witnessed a policeman jump out of his patrol car to pursue a criminal of San Andreas. His eyes lit up as he asked if he could drive the police car. I reminded him that it was only a game, and it was fine to take the car. As he drove the squad car, I pressed L3 to turn on the lights and siren. He asked very excitedly if he could get the bad guys too. With a huge smile I pressed R3 to initiate the Vigilante Missions. It was as if his imagination had come to life. He was taking down delinquents left and right. As expected, the dangerous work of an officer brought an ambulance.

So, a child has been told that it is okay to steal a car, as it is only a game. Also, the child has been permitted to take down "delinquents left and right" while taking part in the Vigilante Missions. First off all, the child is playing as a vigilante, not a police officer. And even so, to complete these missions you have to kill crooks. I'm guessing that they are either doing this through shooting them with the shotgun they have found in the police vehicle, or by running them over (hm...), with perhaps blood flowing from these criminals' bodies as a result. I don't mean to sound like a prude, but through this I wouldn't be surprised if the child would be led to believe that this is the usual manner of police work.

I love Grand Theft Auto, but, no matter how you word it, I still believe that a four-year-old playing it is completely unacceptable (heck, the name of the game is taken from the criminal act of grand theft auto, and you could even argue that four-year-olds are too young to play any kind of video game). I'll admit that it was certainly interesting reading about how the child played the game (driving sensibly, refusing to steal a car, etc.), but why oh why not let them play something more suitable, such as any of the LEGO, Super Mario or even Bubble Bobble games instead?

Ward Dragon
13-06-10, 10:09
I wonder if the parent shows the kid 18 movies and porn as well. :D

I doubt it. The article said the kid saw the father playing GTA and asked if he could play, so the father reluctantly passed the kid the controller and then was pleasantly surprised that the kid played it like a good guy (catching criminals in the police car, taking people to the hospital in the ambulance, putting out fires in the firetruck, etc.)

Dina_Croft
13-06-10, 10:58
Great Article. Thanks for sharing:tmb:

robm_2007
13-06-10, 11:07
wow, what a good story.

i am impresseed with his knowing of right and wrong, but am also impressed that a 4 year old could properly function playing a game as complicated as GTA. :)

Catracoth
13-06-10, 12:08
Now, I'm not saying that everybody should feel bad when running someone over on GTA, but this child has been taught not to feel guilty about it, so when they run people over again, they'll be fine with it. Personally, I don't feel that this is a good attitude for the child to grow up with.

To be honest, this statement is biased. I mean, you don't know how the child will react to such events in the future during his gameplay. For all you know, he may have a continuous guilt streak every time he accidentally kills someone. I know I do, especially when I accidentally shoot or run over a poor woman, especially an elderly one. I think that it's safe to say that after reading this article and analysing it, that child will continue to feel remorse should he again accidentally kill someone.

So, a child has been told that it is okay to steal a car, as it is only a game. Also, the child has been permitted to take down "delinquents left and right" while taking part in the Vigilante Missions. First off all, the child is playing as a vigilante, not a police officer. And even so, to complete these missions you have to kill crooks...but through this I wouldn't be surprised if the child would be led to believe that this is the usual manner of police work.

Well as you said, the child is playing as a vigilante, not a police officer - so with that said, it can be safe to assume his mother would inform him of what he's doing and how such actions are inappropriate in the real world. That sounds like fair game to me.

I love Grand Theft Auto, but, no matter how you word it, I still believe that a four-year-old playing it is completely unacceptable...but why oh why not let them play something more suitable, such as any of the LEGO, Super Mario or even Bubble Bobble games instead?

I see nothing wrong with what this mother is doing. There's a fine line between throwing the game at your four year old and saying "Do with this what you will," and actually taking the time to sit with them, observe their actions, and give positive/negative reinforcement, which is more than enough to educate them properly on what's acceptable in a video game and what's acceptable in the real world. This is a great, yet unethical learning experience to which I applaud the mother.

Take it from me - I've worked with children for years ;).

Jo269976
13-06-10, 12:19
I was happily playing Resident Evil 1 at the age of 5, by my choice of course, a completely different game, I know. But before we even had a Playstation, I was playing Mortal Kombat at the age of two or three on our Sega MegaDrive. My parents had clearly stated to me this was not real on-screen, and that it should never be emulated, which I got right away, but it was my choice at that age to play those sorts of games. Even my young cousins, whom I'm very close to (they're like my siblings to me), have played Grand Theft Auto at a very young age, and it has had no effect on them whatsoever.

I am a firm believer that violent games do not cause violent behavior, I know many people who also played violent games at a young age, and they didn't grow up to be the next Ted Bundy. I highly doubt I'm going to go out one day, blue mask on my face and rip out a spine or two, anytime soon ;).

However, with that being said, I do believe the parent needs to establish fantasy from reality.

Carbonek_0051
13-06-10, 12:33
I was happily playing Resident Evil 1 at the age of 5, by my choice of course, a completely different game, I know. But before we even had a Playstation, I was playing Mortal Kombat at the age of two or three on our Sega MegaDrive. My parents had clearly stated to me this was not real on-screen, and that it should never be emulated, which I got right away, but it was my choice at that age to play those sorts of games. Even my young cousins, whom I'm very close to (they're like my siblings to me), have played Grand Theft Auto at a very young age, and it has had no effect on them whatsoever.

I am a firm believer that violent games do not cause violent behavior, I know many people who also played violent games at a young age, and they didn't grow up to be the next Ted Bundy. I highly doubt I'm going to go out one day, blue mask on my face and rip out a spine or two, anytime soon ;).

However, with that being said, I do believe the parent needs to establish fantasy from reality.
:tmb:

That's exactly the same as my story as well, I played Mortal Kombat a lot in arcades around 6 and played Resident Evil at the age of 7. None of those games have affected how I grew up.

And I agree with your last statement as well, my niece comes in my room sometimes when I was playing Devil May Cry 4 and I told her that the game was silly and now she doesn't think anything of it other than the game being "silly".

On-topic, that story was really cool. :)

Catracoth
13-06-10, 12:38
In my case, I've been playing Grand Theft Auto and similar games (in terms of violence) since I was at least nine years of age, when I was first introduced to Grand Theft Auto III. I've been a fan ever since. I always knew the difference between right and wrong, especially in this scenario where often times I told my mother what happened in the game and how "It wasn't nice what that man did to that woman," and my parents were proud.

However, here I am at the age of eighteen and I still wish that life worked like GTA does, and I'm often making references to the game in real life, such as "Oh man, if only this were GTA - s/he would not get away with that." Signs of an obsessed fan? Oh indeed.

robm_2007
13-06-10, 12:41
ive watched violent movies, and played some violent video games since i was 5 years old.

starting at 5 years old, i had watched Candyman, Children of the Corn, the Puppet Master, Interview with a Vampire, etc. Ive also had played games like RE, Doom, Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, and Leisure Suit Larry.

i never really thought that they were real, i was told that it was fake, and i could grasp the concept of it not being real. i wasnt really ever affected in a negative manner by these games or movies.

im not out shooting people, stabbing them, or am perverted after playing bloody games or games with sexual stuff like Leisure Suit Larry.

some kids are greatly affected by movies and games: look at today's generation of American teens, many of them are out drinking, getting pregnant, and cussing like a sailor before they are even 16. other kids however, arent affected like that.

however, the only reason that i started cussing in 5th grade, was becuase of watching South Park; so I, nor any other person are not completley immune or susceptible to violence or sexual exposue in movies, VGs, books, music, or TV. EDIT: (Although, i did bite a kid on the arm in first grade, but that was becuase he pushed me. Maybe if i bit him on the neck, I would say that watching Interview with a Vampire was the influential factor :pi:)

jarekhanzelka
13-06-10, 12:45
Same here. Apart from playing MK and other violent games at a very young age, I've also been watching horror movies of all kinds since I remember (so probably since I was 3 or so). Most notably I remember IT and Gremlins and Critters. And guess what, I'm a perfectly normal guy, not really killing anyone. So, I do think none of this can affect you as long as your parent guides you. Therefore I like that article, the story, and am perfectly comfortable with everything stated there.

trlestew
13-06-10, 13:10
I'm just kind of mad that NOW people are realizing this after reading the article.
But anyway, yes it was a great article.

Children don't grow up "currupted" by playing game's not intended for them. With parental guidance, or even just common sense, no harm will be done to the child.

I was playing games like Tomb Raider, and even Soul Reaver when I was 6, or 7. Nothing bad has ever happened to me. I'm not a schizo who think's he can walk up to a museum guard and shoot them in the face, or walk around thinking I could suck people's souls.

And this goes for any media. Games,music, movies etc. Like stated in the article: All people are different. It's not as if "If you play/watch/listen to this and you're under this age, then you will be traumatized for the rest of your life " It also goes for maturity. Some adults have no maturity at all, and actually go on crime sprees after playing games such as GTA :rolleyes:

Alive_and_Funky
13-06-10, 13:23
To be honest, this statement is biased. I mean, you don't know how the child will react to such events in the future during his gameplay. For all you know, he may have a continuous guilt streak every time he accidentally kills someone. I know I do, especially when I accidentally shoot or run over a poor woman, especially an elderly one. I think that it's safe to say that after reading this article and analysing it, that child will continue to feel remorse should he again accidentally kill someone.
True, but by the parent telling the child that it is okay, they are attempting to stop the child from feeling guilty. If the child does continue to feel really bad about it, then maybe they shouldn't be playing the game.

Well as you said, the child is playing as a vigilante, not a police officer - so with that said, it can be safe to assume his mother would inform him of what he's doing and how such actions are inappropriate in the real world. That sounds like fair game to me.
However, it might not occur to the parent to differentiate between the two. It's not unreasonable to suggest it might slip past their mind.

Gladous
13-06-10, 13:27
I'm not even allowed to play GTA. My dad said I would be too busy beating up prostitutes and running over people because I have road rage. :rolleyes:


When I was 4, the only games I played were Mario, Zelda, and Tomb Raider. I wouldn't be caught dead playing GTA and so I have to play it on my brother's computer. :ton:

Tommy123
13-06-10, 13:33
I'm not even allowed to play GTA. My dad said I would be too busy beating up prostitutes and running over people because I have road rage. :rolleyes:


When I was 4, the only games I played were Mario, Zelda, and Tomb Raider. I wouldn't be caught dead playing GTA and so I have to play it on my brother's computer. :ton:

same here, i used to only play those types of games up until i was about ten....then a friend showed me GTA and now im hooked

Dennis's Mom
13-06-10, 14:38
I just skimmed the article, but I have no patience with this. First, why on earth are you encouraging a four year old to play video games period? This is the last thing you should encourage in a young child. :hea:

And GTA? Can you think of any more conflicting message to send to a child than "this isn't OK for you to do, but do it anyway in this game?" Why on earth would you want to put your child in a situation that makes them feel bad? He'll get enough of that later on in life, don't you think?

The kid is four years old. He should not be sitting on his a$$ entertaining his parent by playing GTA. Because that's what this is. Oh, she's making it out to be a "learning experience" but four year olds are simply not that cognizant of make-believe versus reality.

Here's a real experiment: Two identical rooms, one is life size, the other is a miniature duplicate down to the last detail. With a four year old child watching, the researcher hides a miniature treat behind a chair in the miniature room. Then they show life-sized room to the child and ask him where the treat is. The child cannot make the connection between the miniature room and the life-sized room and find the treat behind the chair. A chimpanzee can.

So by all means, let's play a video game entirely based on make-believe bad behavior and expect the four year old to understand the difference. :rolleyes:

Catracoth
13-06-10, 15:15
Dennis's Mom, I don't think it's right to make such statements without knowing the family background - how do you know that the child plays video games as often as you perceive? It could be quite the opposite, in fact.

While you're right by saying that there are more appropriate methods of teaching your child right from wrong, she did the right thing by sitting with him after his father allowed him to play the game, and explain to him what is and what isn't okay to do in the real world. I doubt she was happy about her husband letting their son play the game, but it's better that she show him what's acceptable and what's not instead of telling him he can't play the game for whatever reason. He's getting a direct learning experience out of this, and that's good.

Everyone has their own method(s) of teaching their children. No one has the right to tell them how to teach their offspring, unless what they're doing (physical enforcement, etc.) is harmful.

I'm a certified teacher and I've been studying early childhood education and development for years, and I can tell you right off the bat that when you say four year olds aren't cognizant of make-believe versus reality, you are dead wrong. With the children I've worked with (four and five year olds precisely), we've conducted studies and both age groups were able to identify what's okay to do in real life and what should remain inside of fictional settings.

Her child clearly understands the difference as four year olds should also be able to.

robm_2007
13-06-10, 15:37
^Holy ****! youre 18, and your a certified teacher?:yik:

Catracoth
13-06-10, 16:19
I attend a vocational school - we have shops that train us to be experts in a particular trade and with training, we receive proper certification :).

RunrigNutter
13-06-10, 16:53
First, why on earth are you encouraging a four year old to play video games period? This is the last thing you should encourage in a young child.

Oh puleaze, why cant he play video games. I was playing Sonic at 4, Tomb Raider at 6. Next thing you be saying he cant play battleships, cos it's too violent. I'm sure most of us have played games at a young age. Just because he's 4 doesn't mean he cant play video games. I'm sure you were the same, playing games at a young age. :cen::cen::cen::cen:

Or just ban video games with a +3 rating

Ward Dragon
13-06-10, 17:02
My family got our first computer when I was around 7 and my brother was around 3. He was blasting imps in Doom before he could even read. In fact, I think game manuals drastically helped him learn how to read and increased his vocabulary (his school was doing some "whole language" thing instead of phonics and he had a lot of trouble spelling or reading unfamiliar words due to this, but he got over it once they switched back to phonics). He wanted to read the game manuals so that gave him motivation and lots of practice reading. Playing the games also helped him develop hand-eye coordination very well. I wish I had played games that young -- then maybe I'd be as coordinated as he is :p

igonge
13-06-10, 17:10
Awww :p

Catracoth
13-06-10, 20:09
Oh puleaze, why cant he play video games. I was playing Sonic at 4, Tomb Raider at 6. Next thing you be saying he cant play battleships, cos it's too violent. I'm sure most of us have played games at a young age. Just because he's 4 doesn't mean he cant play video games.

Hold on. First off, I think you need to cool off, considering you're dead wrong in this case. Common video games aren't appropriate for children at such a young age because it encourages laziness and sedentary behaviours. Children should be doing more recreational and educational activities - video games teach them nothing of value that such a young age - I don't think video games are appropriate for children until ten years old.

Secondly, Battleship is an entirely different game which is irrelevant to this scenario. For starters, Battleship is a game that teaches logic and reasoning - not to mention that at four years old, I doubt a child would be able to comprehend how to play it. Why not teach them Texas Hold 'Em :rolleyes:.

Dennis's Mom
13-06-10, 20:16
Oh puleaze, why cant he play video games. I was playing Sonic at 4, Tomb Raider at 6. Next thing you be saying he cant play battleships, cos it's too violent. I'm sure most of us have played games at a young age. Just because he's 4 doesn't mean he cant play video games. I'm sure you were the same, playing games at a young age. :cen::cen::cen::cen:


Actually, I'm pushing fifty. So no, I didn't play video games at a young age. ;)

Why shouldn't a 4 year old play games? I don't know . . . maybe because there's a freaking OBESITY EPIDEMIC among children? I know it's trendy to blame the food, but trust me, it's not the food. Between teh internets, Nickleodeon and video games, our children are 24 couch potatoes.

Video games are addictive. If you don't believe me, take Daniel Amen's word:

A recent study on brain-imaging and video games was published in the journal Nature. In the study, PET scans were taken while a group of people played action video games. They discovered that the basal ganglia (where dopamine is produced in the brain) were much more active when the video games were being played than at rest. Healing ADD, Amen.

That's where cocaine works in the brain. Why on earth would you want to overstimulate a 4-year old's brain?

Little kids brains are developing are such a high rate, and again, I will refer to Amen: EVERYTHING you put into your brain affects it. Why on earth would you want to fill your growing child's head with images of violence---make believe or not? Are we truly so protected from the violence the rest of the world sees everyday that we think our kids need a make-believe ration? I daresay there are people on the streets of Juarez right now who would say, "Me? I don't have a choice, but you--you let your children see this and tell them it's a game?"

I was a very proactive parent regarding games. No M rated game came into my house that I didn't play. Some my children were allowed to play (Onimusha, Halo, Devil May Cry) some they were not. I'm pretty blase about man on monster violence in fantasy settings, but people on people violence in realistic situations was not allowed (although my husband made me crack on MOH). GTA didn't enter my house until Dennis was old enough to buy it himself.

The question ultimately isn't whether it's real or make-believe, the question is whether it's appropriate for a four year old. Would you be OK if his parents showed him Hostel while whispering "oh, it isn't real" in his ear?

What amazes me is how quick people are to defend gaming in any and all situations. I wonder if the defense would have been so quick had the parent been showing the kid porn and saying "now honey, this is all completely natural."

Ward Dragon
13-06-10, 21:25
The question ultimately isn't whether it's real or make-believe, the question is whether it's appropriate for a four year old. Would you be OK if his parents showed him Hostel while whispering "oh, it isn't real" in his ear?

What amazes me is how quick people are to defend gaming in any and all situations. I wonder if the defense would have been so quick had the parent been showing the kid porn and saying "now honey, this is all completely natural."

First of all I think games are quite different from movies because you aren't simply watching stuff happen, you're doing it yourself. In that sense, games are both better and worse as far as being inappropriate goes. Worse because it could be encouraging the child to want to do violent things, but better because there's more freedom and the experience can drastically differ depending upon how the game is played. In this particular case I think it was fine for the child to play GTA because the parent was right there watching and the game provided the opportunity for the child to play as a relatively good guy and run around saving lives and putting out fires. What kid wouldn't love driving a firetruck and putting out fires? :p I think if the child had wandered off into more violent potentially traumatizing territory the parent would have intervened and ended the game. On the other hand, if it was something like God of War which not only encourages graphic violence but even requires killing innocent people to get past certain parts, then I'd think it was completely wrong to let the child watch or play that.

RunrigNutter
13-06-10, 22:29
Hold on. First off, I think you need to cool off, considering you're dead wrong in this case. Common video games aren't appropriate for children at such a young age because it encourages laziness and sedentary behaviours.

So it be the the same for them old fighting games, if it's not appropriate at a young age, why is there a low rating. It be saying the same with Tomb Raider, whom I started when I was 6, watching and playing with me sis


Children should be doing more recreational and educational activities - video games teach them nothing of value that such a young age - I don't think video games are appropriate for children until ten years old.

Again I disagree, and I got into Kula World to help my needs. Just because a person is young, doesn't mean he/she cant play videogames. I played Sonic on an old snes, and it helped me and my brother, as we both had learning difficulty's :ton: so it helped us there. I played old Tekken games because I loved that games. Next you be saying to ban DS, cookking games etc etc, because it promotes cooking skills at the age of 6 :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


Actually, I'm pushing fifty. So no, I didn't play video games at a young age.

Hmm, I doubt to believe that



Why shouldn't a 4 year old play games? I don't know . . . maybe because there's a freaking OBESITY EPIDEMIC among children? I know it's trendy to blame the food, but trust me, it's not the food.


But it's the parents who is providing the food, therfore the parents fault.



Between teh internets, Nickleodeon and video games, our children are 24 couch potatoes.

Even if someone was playing football, dunno at 4 people will then complain they gonna injure themselves. What do you do, not have them play until they 10, or 2 watch them learn. Also people will state he/she is lazy, for not doing housework because they arn't helping, but being fair, at a young age, can a child really do that at a young age?


Little kids brains are developing are such a high rate, and again, I will refer to Amen: EVERYTHING you put into your brain affects it. Why on earth would you want to fill your growing child's head with images of violence---make believe or not? Are we truly so protected from the violence the rest of the world sees everyday that we think our kids need a make-believe ration? I daresay there are people on the streets of Juarez right now who would say, "Me? I don't have a choice, but you--you let your children see this and tell them it's a game?"

OK, but you forget that children can see violence all around that, or seen a crash, not playing video games. Just because it's been in a video game doesn't mean, they are not gonna witness it in real life



_______

robm_2007
13-06-10, 22:52
^
1. Dennis' Mom didnt play VGs when she was a kid. Why? Cuz she is almost 50, and they didnt even have Pong or Tetris invented yet.

2. She said that food is not the problem to children's obesity, it the lack of exercise. today's generation of kids are lazy. they are glued to the TV, or computer or cell phone. Kids never really play outside, which is what she was saying. not all physical exercise is dangerous and possible to cause injuries like Football. kids used to ride bikes, run around and play tag or hide and seek, or even jump rope, but rarely do they anymore.

3. the way you get children used to doing housework and chores is to start them at an early age. even at 3 years old. just have your child pick up one toy of the floor everyday and put it in their toy box, and then you gradually increase the amount of work.

4. and its not very often that kids witness car accidents or murders in public on a daily basis (or even once for that matter); so its not like if they dont play violent games or watch bloody movies that they are going to see it elsewhere.

spikejones
13-06-10, 23:58
that which really matters in life, that which is really important, is all relative to the individual.

I just skimmed the article, but I have no patience with this. First, why on earth are you encouraging a four year old to play video games period? This is the last thing you should encourage in a young child. :hea:

And GTA? Can you think of any more conflicting message to send to a child than "this isn't OK for you to do, but do it anyway in this game?" Why on earth would you want to put your child in a situation that makes them feel bad? He'll get enough of that later on in life, don't you think?

The kid is four years old. He should not be sitting on his a$$ entertaining his parent by playing GTA. Because that's what this is. Oh, she's making it out to be a "learning experience" but four year olds are simply not that cognizant of make-believe versus reality.

Here's a real experiment: Two identical rooms, one is life size, the other is a miniature duplicate down to the last detail. With a four year old child watching, the researcher hides a miniature treat behind a chair in the miniature room. Then they show life-sized room to the child and ask him where the treat is. The child cannot make the connection between the miniature room and the life-sized room and find the treat behind the chair. A chimpanzee can.

So by all means, let's play a video game entirely based on make-believe bad behavior and expect the four year old to understand the difference. :rolleyes:
I'm not sure if that experiment properly supports your conclusion. What your experiment says to me is that they see the two as completely different entities, while the chimpanzee sees them as the same. To me, this tells me the child is more intelligent than the chimpanzee is, and that the chimpanzee would be more likely to act out in game activities in the real world than the child would.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
14-06-10, 00:21
But it's the parents who is providing the food, therfore the parents fault.

_______

You're kidding, right? It takes food AND lack of activity to make some one obese. If the parents are at fault for anything it's letting their children lay around collecting dust. It's rarely just one or the other, and every little bit of activity adds up. I never stood still as a little kid, but I ate everything in sight, and I was quite skinny. If I had the activity level of a barnacle like today's kids, who knows how I would have turned out.

spikejones
14-06-10, 00:42
You're kidding, right? It takes food AND lack of activity to make some one obese. If the parents are at fault for anything it's letting their children lay around collecting dust. It's rarely just one or the other, and every little bit of activity adds up. I never stood still as a little kid, but I ate everything in sight, and I was quite skinny. If I had the activity level of a barnacle like today's kids, who knows how I would have turned out.

its not always as cut and dry as diet and exercise. some people like me have high metabolism and can eat a good deal and barely gain any weight at all. Its very very hard for me to gain weight, and about the only "exercise" I do on most occasions is work. (making sandwiches hardly counts as weight maintenance program). Theres all sorts of factors at play here, but as I said above, the important things are all relative to the individual. If the person is happy with their body shape/weight/etc.. who are we to tell them its bad just because we don't like how they look? To me thats a very shallow attitude to have. We live in a world run by the media these days. Everywhere you look theres a magazine or TV show that tells everyone what the ideal image is, and how we should go about trying to attain that image. I say **** that ****. If you're happy with what you look like and what your activities are, the rest of the world can **** off. At the end of the day all that really matters is your own happiness.

Phys
14-06-10, 00:52
What an excellent article :tmb:

Sgt BOMBULOUS
14-06-10, 02:03
its not always as cut and dry as diet and exercise. some people like me have high metabolism and can eat a good deal and barely gain any weight at all. Its very very hard for me to gain weight, and about the only "exercise" I do on most occasions is work. (making sandwiches hardly counts as weight maintenance program). Theres all sorts of factors at play here, but as I said above, the important things are all relative to the individual. If the person is happy with their body shape/weight/etc.. who are we to tell them its bad just because we don't like how they look? To me thats a very shallow attitude to have. We live in a world run by the media these days. Everywhere you look theres a magazine or TV show that tells everyone what the ideal image is, and how we should go about trying to attain that image. I say **** that ****. If you're happy with what you look like and what your activities are, the rest of the world can **** off. At the end of the day all that really matters is your own happiness.

Maintaining a high BMI from a young age has serious health consequences... We're not just talking "Look at that fattie!!!", we're talking about developing diabetes when you're in your 20's... This is the future our sedentary, overweight children have to look forward to. If you don't believe me, read this (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/17/health/17obese.html).

jarekhanzelka
14-06-10, 04:55
Come on, just because a kid plays video games since a young age doesn't mean he will grow into a lazy-ass fat couch potato. Once again, that all depends on the parent. For whatever happens to the kid, a parent is to blame. Period. I know dozens of guys, doing some sport since they were 6, and playing video games since the same age at the same time. On the other hand, I also know quite a few obese pure lazy guys, some of which are so lazy they never play a game without cheating. Some of them do drugs now, that they got older. Their parents are to blame.

If parents are capable of guiding their child/ren through their childhood properly, barely any media can really affect the child negatively.

Alpharaider47
14-06-10, 05:23
So, a child has been told that it is okay to steal a car, as it is only a game. Also, the child has been permitted to take down "delinquents left and right" while taking part in the Vigilante Missions. First off all, the child is playing as a vigilante, not a police officer. And even so, to complete these missions you have to kill crooks. I'm guessing that they are either doing this through shooting them with the shotgun they have found in the police vehicle, or by running them over (hm...), with perhaps blood flowing from these criminals' bodies as a result. I don't mean to sound like a prude, but through this I wouldn't be surprised if the child would be led to believe that this is the usual manner of police work.


Hey the kid's four years old, he'll figure it out with time and it seems like the parent is fairly even keeled. The kid probably doesn't realize the difference between a vigilante and a cop, and at his age don't a lot of boys just wanna kill the bad guys? He'll figure it out in time.
I was pretty surprised by the title, but less alarmed once I read the article. As long as the parent is around to keep an eye on the kid and keep him from exploring the more... inappropriate content, I don't see what's wrong with it.

lunavixen
14-06-10, 05:54
So it be the the same for them old fighting games, if it's not appropriate at a young age, why is there a low rating. It be saying the same with Tomb Raider, whom I started when I was 6, watching and playing with me sis




Again I disagree, and I got into Kula World to help my needs. Just because a person is young, doesn't mean he/she cant play videogames. I played Sonic on an old snes, and it helped me and my brother, as we both had learning difficulty's :ton: so it helped us there. I played old Tekken games because I loved that games. Next you be saying to ban DS, cookking games etc etc, because it promotes cooking skills at the age of 6 :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


OK, but you forget that children can see violence all around that, or seen a crash, not playing video games. Just because it's been in a video game doesn't mean, they are not gonna witness it in real life
my first video game was dune II the aim of which is the world domination of arrakis
i think some video games do have educational purposes to a certain extent, but i could cook by the age of 6



4. and its not very often that kids witness car accidents or on a daily basis (or even once for that matter); so its not like if they dont play violent games or watch bloody movies that they are going to see it elsewhere.i don't exactly agree with this, i've seen and been in many car accidents, a lot of which when i was young, theres at least half a dozen car accidents a year right outside my house

its not always as cut and dry as diet and exercise. some people like me have high metabolism and can eat a good deal and barely gain any weight at all. Its very very hard for me to gain weight, and about the only "exercise" I do on most occasions is work. (making sandwiches hardly counts as weight maintenance program). Theres all sorts of factors at play here, but as I said above, the important things are all relative to the individual. If the person is happy with their body shape/weight/etc.. who are we to tell them its bad just because we don't like how they look? To me thats a very shallow attitude to have. We live in a world run by the media these days. Everywhere you look theres a magazine or TV show that tells everyone what the ideal image is, and how we should go about trying to attain that image. I say **** that ****. If you're happy with what you look like and what your activities are, the rest of the world can **** off. At the end of the day all that really matters is your own happiness.
exactly, i do a lot of exercise and maintain a fairly healthy diet for someone my age and i'm still overweight

@alpharaider - i agree, it's about monitoring and moderation

Alpharaider47
14-06-10, 07:21
@alpharaider - i agree, it's about monitoring and moderation
That's actually a really good way of putting it
I just wanna clarify real quick- I'm not endorsing GTA, but I think that if a parent has experience with the game and knows how to steer/encourage their kid away from inappropriate content, etc, then I don't think there's anything wrong with letting a kid play the game. The kid in the article seemed to have a great deal of fun without experiencing any of the game's shadier aspects.

Alive_and_Funky
14-06-10, 07:23
In this particular case I think it was fine for the child to play GTA because the parent was right there watching and the game provided the opportunity for the child to play as a relatively good guy and run around saving lives and putting out fires. What kid wouldn't love driving a firetruck and putting out fires? :p
If I remember correctly though, in GTA: San Andreas don't you sometimes have to put out people that are actually on fire?


Hey the kid's four years old, he'll figure it out with time and it seems like the parent is fairly even keeled. The kid probably doesn't realize the difference between a vigilante and a cop, and at his age don't a lot of boys just wanna kill the bad guys? He'll figure it out in time.
I was pretty surprised by the title, but less alarmed once I read the article. As long as the parent is around to keep an eye on the kid and keep him from exploring the more... inappropriate content, I don't see what's wrong with it.
You're probably right about how they'll probably understand how the police force works eventually, but I still find GTA's Vigilante Missions inappropriate for a child, considering you can end up completing them in all sorts of ways, such as by shooting the criminals, running them down, blowing up their vehicles, etc.
As far as shielding them from the inappropriate content goes, there's stuff all over the place in GTA. Be it the radio stations, billboards, citizens' conversations on the street (I'm not certain on that one though), etc. You just have to look at the name of GTA IV's Internet cafe to understand what I'm talking about.

my first video game was dune II the aim of which is the world domination of arrakis
Off-topic: I want to play that game. :p

robm_2007
14-06-10, 12:51
i don't exactly agree with this, i've seen and been in many car accidents, a lot of which when i was young, theres at least half a dozen car accidents a year right outside my house

yes, but that isnt an average situation. were these car accidents youve witnessed fender-benders, or were the coroners arriving to the scene? im sorry that you were also IN car accidents, but what was the damage? (not to bring it up if you are uncomfortable with the details:o) was it deadly, or a simple rear-ending type situation?

RunrigNutter was making it seem like that kids often see car wrecks where there is a body launched out of the windshield with blood spilled all over the street; comparable to GTA.

RunrigNutter
15-06-10, 04:09
OK not often, but I have seen it happen when I was young. At school, I saw a crash, and I was 5.

TheBloodRed
15-06-10, 04:17
I like that kind of parent who took time to sit down and explain things to children. :)
Nowadays parents just leave children to do their things or prohibit things from them entirely without reasoning.

^Ditto.

Kudos to this article, I like it very much!!

lunavixen
15-06-10, 05:52
Off-topic: I want to play that game. :pi still have it

yes, but that isnt an average situation. were these car accidents youve witnessed fender-benders, or were the coroners arriving to the scene? im sorry that you were also IN car accidents, but what was the damage? (not to bring it up if you are uncomfortable with the details:o) was it deadly, or a simple rear-ending type situation?

RunrigNutter was making it seem like that kids often see car wrecks where there is a body launched out of the windshield with blood spilled all over the street; comparable to GTA.some were fender benders, one of them was a multi car pile up, i was nearly one of them, one person died, but not at the scene, there was about 7 or 8 ambulances there, others were not fender benders but no one died

if you think a car crash has gross aspects, try going through the head trauma unit at a hospital, my dad was in a severe car accident when i was 5, so i had to go through the head trauma unit every day for months so i could see my dad, some of the things i've seen in there are truly traumatising, and i'm not going to describe any of them for obvious reasons, and before you ask, yes, my dad completely recovered, well as much as you do with injuries as bad as his were

ryan91
15-06-10, 06:25
imagine that his four-year-old son plays silent hill. that would be funny to watch . (not the game but the kid :D)

Hairhelmet12
15-06-10, 07:02
Whenever I accidentally run somebody over on GTA, I tend to feel rather guilty (I even wait for a bit to check if I've killed the person or not).

I drive on the sidewalk. :D

robm_2007
15-06-10, 11:26
some were fender benders, one of them was a multi car pile up, i was nearly one of them, one person died, but not at the scene, there was about 7 or 8 ambulances there, others were not fender benders but no one died

if you think a car crash has gross aspects, try going through the head trauma unit at a hospital, my dad was in a severe car accident when i was 5, so i had to go through the head trauma unit every day for months so i could see my dad, some of the things i've seen in there are truly traumatising, and i'm not going to describe any of them for obvious reasons, and before you ask, yes, my dad completely recovered, well as much as you do with injuries as bad as his were

:(

:hug:.

well, i am glad that you are okay, and that your Dad was able to recover however much he was able to recover. whats with all of the car accidents though? why do so many occur where you live?

there's several car accidents in front of my house; ive only witnessed maybe 3 fender-benders, and one person i remember they had said was taken to the hospital, but they were fine. maybe its not so unusual, then; at least in regards to both of us. cuz my 4 year old cousin died from getting run over, his sister, step-siblings, and some of their friends witnessed it:o:(. but i dont think that it happens as much as either of us have experienced it, and i hope that it doesnt for others.

maybe 20+ years ago (before i was born), in my front yard there was this really tall tree. then, one day, lightning struck the tree during a thunderstorm; it broke and timbered into the street in front of our house :eek:. i think that some car's might have crashed into it, or swerved and hit each other; but no one died or sustained severe injuries.
--------------------------
but, if the kid isnt murdering ppl or doing any of the sexual related activites, then i think its okay for him to be playing. i dont think i would let him do the vigilante missions, cuz the whole point of that is to kill the criminals. i did like that he wouldnt take a car if someone was already in it, so it shows that he has some sort of moral system, even at 4 years old.

xDeMoNiCxHunte
15-06-10, 14:16
the way i see it its fine im a 16 year old and have many objections to children playing the games before there atleast 4 years before the age limit ( 18 = 14 etc etc ) i was playing gta aged 14 and has not affected me =p. stop complainung he will be fine so long as he is being told it is just a game

lunavixen
16-06-10, 06:57
:(

:hug:.

well, i am glad that you are okay, and that your Dad was able to recover however much he was able to recover. whats with all of the car accidents though? why do so many occur where you live?

there's several car accidents in front of my house; ive only witnessed maybe 3 fender-benders, and one person i remember they had said was taken to the hospital, but they were fine. maybe its not so unusual, then; at least in regards to both of us. cuz my 4 year old cousin died from getting run over, his sister, step-siblings, and some of their friends witnessed it:o:(. but i dont think that it happens as much as either of us have experienced it, and i hope that it doesnt for others.

maybe 20+ years ago (before i was born), in my front yard there was this really tall tree. then, one day, lightning struck the tree during a thunderstorm; it broke and timbered into the street in front of our house :eek:. i think that some car's might have crashed into it, or swerved and hit each other; but no one died or sustained severe injuries.
--------------------------
but, if the kid isnt murdering ppl or doing any of the sexual related activites, then i think its okay for him to be playing. i dont think i would let him do the vigilante missions, cuz the whole point of that is to kill the criminals. i did like that he wouldnt take a car if someone was already in it, so it shows that he has some sort of moral system, even at 4 years old.
the intersection where i live is double blind with a dual give way on the opposite crossing, people go up the blind hill from the south way too fast and people on the give way can't tell if there is a car coming until its too late and as they are jumping the give way to get whereever it is they are trying to go, another car comes over the hill and blammo, they have a new hood ornament

this is a pic of where i live (drawn in paint)
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/Lunafox15/Untitled.png

RunrigNutter
17-06-10, 00:18
Yikes :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

How do you cope ?

aquaflute
17-06-10, 00:40
Seriously, I think the author is going to be a great dad just by reading this article.

lunavixen
17-06-10, 03:42
Yikes :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

How do you cope ?

if you were referring to me, you put your foot down and pray a car doesn't come over the hill

RunrigNutter
17-06-10, 03:47
Must be scary :(

lunavixen
18-06-10, 10:27
nah, not as much as you'd think

scremanie
18-06-10, 10:44
aw how awesome :D

NRO.
18-06-10, 11:44
The very first (read: 2d) ones aren't that bad. I played them when I was his age (about five-six) . But letting a four-year-old play SA, is either idiotic parenting or a single-father.

Catracoth
18-06-10, 13:32
the way i see it its fine im a 16 year old and have many objections to children playing the games before there atleast 4 years before the age limit ( 18 = 14 etc etc ) i was playing gta aged 14 and has not affected me =p. stop complainung he will be fine so long as he is being told it is just a game

That's a rather apathetic way of looking at things.