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View Full Version : Copyright Infringement (Piracy)


Catracoth
08-08-10, 17:45
Copyright infringement (or copyright violation) is the unauthorized or prohibited use of works covered by copyright law, in a way that violates one of the copyright owner's exclusive rights, such as the right to reproduce or perform the copyrighted work, or to make derivative works.

For electronic and audio-visual media, unauthorized reproduction and distribution is also commonly referred to as piracy. An early reference to piracy in the context of copyright infringement was made by Daniel Defoe in 1703 when he said of his novel The True-Born Englishman that "It's being printed again and again, by pirates". The practice of labelling the act of infringement as "piracy" pre-dates statutory copyright law. Prior to the Statute of Anne 1709, the Stationers' Company of London in 1557 received a Royal Charter giving the company a monopoly on publication and tasking it with enforcing the charter. Those who violated the charter were labelled pirates as early as 1603.

The legal basis for this usage dates from the same era, and has been consistently applied until the present time. Critics of the use of the term "piracy" to describe such practices contend that it is pejorative and unfairly equates copyright infringement with more sinister activity.
(courtesy of Wikipedia)

There's a bit of a debate going on in another thread and I thought it a good idea to open one on the topic for a debate. We all know that copyright infringement is stealing which is illegal and should never be done, but there seems to be quite an amount of loopholes and contradictions.

Thoughts?

Phlip
08-08-10, 17:46
Find a loophole and then do whatever. If you can't find a loophole, don't infringe copyright.

Cochrane
08-08-10, 18:01
Personally, I donít see the harm in any private copying of stuff I have legally bought/licensed. So I donít think it is evil to crack the encryption on a DVD if you do so only to watch the resulting movie on your iPhone or similar.

However, I am strictly opposed to any true piracy, i.e. copying something you have not bought or otherwise licensed, as well as helping others do so. If you want to use a software, listen to a song, watch a movie and so on and it does not come free by default, pay for it. No exceptions.

At the same time, I am a huge fan of authors voluntarily relinquishing some rights. Open Source and Creative Commons are examples where this works really well, and it generally helps everyone. I use it myself for some of the stuff I produce. Still, this has to be a choice by the author. If he does not want that, thatís his right.

Super Badnik
08-08-10, 18:02
It is stealing. However, these big corporations probably aren't gonna miss that extra few quid.

aurora89
08-08-10, 18:18
It is stealing. However, these big corporations probably aren't gonna miss that extra few quid.

Pretty much that. I also think there is a HUGE difference between downloading one or two songs from an album you don't own and selling illegal copies of that album. Neither is really right, but one is a whole lot less wrong than the other!

trlestew
08-08-10, 18:29
I just hate it when people get shunned to the point like they commited murder or something. Piracy isn't good, but don't freakin' attack those who do it. Mind your own buisness...


The only thing about piracy which I question about is for media (mostly games) which were made quite a long time ago and are out of print, not released in a collection, or have broken storage mediums on ebay/Amazon. That and streaming music or movies on youtube.

Catracoth
08-08-10, 18:43
Personally, I donít see the harm in any private copying of stuff I have legally bought/licensed. So I donít think it is evil to crack the encryption on a DVD if you do so only to watch the resulting movie on your iPhone or similar.

This I agree with entirely.

trlestew
08-08-10, 18:49
I don't even know why that is even considered piracy -_-

voltz
08-08-10, 19:03
RIAA got everybody confused in what IP infringement really is. We can't technically call it "piracy" if we're just trading copies of it online.

Anyway this topic is a can of worms that we really shouldn't bother opening... people argue too much.

Catracoth
08-08-10, 19:09
Gee, give the thread a chance. It's going well so far. :)

Cochrane
08-08-10, 19:16
RIAA got everybody confused in what IP infringement really is. We can't technically call it "piracy" if we're just trading copies of it online.
We canít technically call it piracy unless ships are involved. Trading copies online is a violation of copyright, this is agreed in almost all jurisdictions. The question is how bad it is.

Anyway this topic is a can of worms that we really shouldn't bother opening... people argue too much.

What does everybody have against arguing? The more arguments in a thread, the better. The worst threads are the ones that consist to 50% of "I agree" messages.

Admles
08-08-10, 19:20
The worst threads are the ones that consist to 50% of "I agree" messages.

I agree


;)

voltz
08-08-10, 19:26
The only thing about piracy which I question about is for media (mostly games) which were made quite a long time ago and are out of print, not released in a collection, or have broken storage mediums on ebay/Amazon. That and streaming music or movies on youtube.

That's the one thing I really hate about this market when certain items are no longer up for grabs, they end up being "forgotten", so nobody picks them up for re-sale. I've known over a half dozen DOS, PC, arcade, console games and software that may as well be considered abandoned, so what exactly is it that a publisher would sue you for aside from trying to make a point? In any case, this is about as gray as gray areas get. You don't make a profit from an unused IP, why would it be so important to even bother filing court papers then?

voltz
08-08-10, 19:29
We canít technically call it piracy unless ships are involved. Trading copies online is a violation of copyright, this is agreed in almost all jurisdictions. The question is how bad it is.

Actually piracy involves the selling a bootlegged goods, knock-offs or being an un-authorized vendor. All of which the exchange of money is involved.

Used goods are clear of this, so nobody can argue the fact that artists/developers/publishers ain't getting money over it. 1st sale doctrine says they have no right to double-dip.

Cochrane
08-08-10, 19:35
Actually piracy involves the selling a bootlegged goods, knock-offs or being an un-authorized vendor. All of which the exchange of money is involved.

Used goods are clear of this, so nobody can argue the fact that artists/developers/publishers ain't getting money over it. 1st sale doctrine says they have no right to double-dip.

Ah, I misunderstood you there. Yes, we are clearly free to sell used goods, as long as we hand over all copies of it or destroy the remaining ones. However, this does not cover making new copies and giving them to others, even for free. That is still considered piracy according to most definitions I know.

TRfan23
08-08-10, 19:56
Is it considered piracy if you bought a film, game or whatever, and you kept it for years got bored of it and sold it to a friend of yours for £5? (Actually I doubt it since it's on land and not going overseas. unless your friend lived in Australia and you lived in the UK?)

Well as it stands piracy is piracy, if the owner wants to sell licenses for his creations then so it is :) It's piracy if you steal it. Why? Because it's most likely being sent over seas through the Internet...

jackles
08-08-10, 20:07
We canít technically call it piracy unless ships are involved. Trading copies online is a violation of copyright, this is agreed in almost all jurisdictions. The question is how bad it is.



What does everybody have against arguing? The more arguments in a thread, the better. The worst threads are the ones that consist to 50% of "I agree" messages.


I think people sometimes confuse arguing with 'if you don't agree with me I will call you names' as opposed to 'hmmm an opposing argument let me counter this with my words of wisdom'


;)



good discussion involves discussing! :)

Cochrane
08-08-10, 20:10
Is it considered piracy if you bought a film, game or whatever, and you kept it for years got bored of it and sold it to a friend of yours for £5? (Actually I doubt it since it's on land and not going overseas. unless your friend lived in Australia and you lived in the UK?)

Well as it stands piracy is piracy, if the owner wants to sell licenses for his creations then so it is :) It's piracy if you steal it. Why? Because it's most likely being sent over seas through the Internet...

Iíd have to look up UK and Australian laws. US law explicitly allows it, of course. German law also allows it for anything bought within the EU. As this is based on EU law, UK law will probably say something very similar, but I have no idea how an export to Australia is seen.

That being said, I would not feel bad about it.

tranniversary119
08-08-10, 20:21
I used to download things illegally, I'll admit. But I don't anymore (besides songs on occasion; which is very rare) now that I have a job and can afford Netflix and HBO. Do I think pirating is wrong? Of course it is. There's nothing good about it. But I do think some people take it far too seriously, some people act like they committed murder as trlestew said a few posts above me.

I just hate it when people get shunned to the point like they commited murder or something. Piracy isn't good, but don't freakin' attack those who do it. Mind your own buisness...
I mean I used to download True Blood episodes and then when the season was released I buy it immediately, at 50$.

Dennis's Mom
08-08-10, 23:39
I don't think anyone is accusing anyone of murder, but it is theft, and it does affect everyone else. Just like when someone steals a lipstick from the drugstore and the drugstore has to raise prices for the loss, pirating creates losses that must be covered.

Trigger_happy
09-08-10, 00:15
I'm in two minds about downloading things, especially music. I like to support groups I like by buying their records and albums, so they don't starve to death.

However, I often download a few songs by them and listen to them. If I like them, I go out and buy the album. If I don't like them, I'll delete the songs and won't buy them album. Either way, if I was going to get the music, I'll pay for it, and if I didn't like it, they won't get anything.

Minty Mouth
09-08-10, 00:35
I support the artists I love by buying their albums.

I downlaod everything else before I buy it. I refuse to spend £10 on an album before having heard every song at least once; especially since the quality of music has dropped way down recently.

Drone
09-08-10, 05:11
... hahah hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me. All those companies love to steal stuff from each other, revamp it (and sometimes even don't bother to change a thing) and show it like it was their own product yet they will accuse people who will "steal" it from them. They will stalk on you, they will try and break your privacy rights, they will do anything ... anyway ... And it's funny how those freaks can't tell file-sharing from piracy ....

People who love music for free should download demos, bootlegs etc from their artists' official sites. And they also can have a chance to hear it on the radio so they could make their minds about an album. People who want an OS or any other software for free should download Linux, open office or any other free open source software.

Piracy is illegal and shouldn't be condoned. But it's funny how sometimes piracy helps the industry and improves sales. In other cases it can ruin everything.

Ward Dragon
09-08-10, 05:38
I don't see anything morally wrong with downloading something that is not reasonably available to buy (either too old, not available for sale in that country, etc.), but if it breaks the law to do so, then people should try to have the law changed rather than breaking the law. I also think fan-made music videos should be considered fair use as long as nobody is making money off of it.

However, what really bothers me is when people pirate a brand new game that they could have easily bought and then they brag about it. They're the reason I have to deal with DRM and all that crap, and I hate their attitude that paying customers are idiots. I wish they would just go away and stop drawing attention to themselves so maybe the game developers would stop freaking out over piracy and ease off the DRM a bit.

Drone
09-08-10, 05:44
I don't see anything morally wrong with downloading something that is not reasonably available to buy (either too old, not available for sale in that country, etc.), but if it breaks the law to do so, then people should try to have the law changed rather than breaking the law. I also think fan-made music videos should be considered fair use as long as nobody is making money off of it.

that's it and for example many things ain't worth their prise and that's annoying while other stuff you can't even find in your country.

However, what really bothers me is when people pirate a brand new game that they could have easily bought and then they brag about it. They're the reason I have to deal with DRM and all that crap, and I hate their attitude that paying customers are idiots.

It bothers everyone. This article somehow is related to that:
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/makers_machinarium_having_pirate_amnesty_sale

I like their attitude. Make it cheap = get less pirated copies

Admles
09-08-10, 05:47
I like their attitude. Make it cheap = get less pirated copies

It's a chicken and egg cycle.

If people didn't pirate it as much, it would be cheaper. If it was cheaper, people wouldn't pirate it as much.

Ward Dragon
09-08-10, 05:49
that's it and for example many things ain't worth their prise and that's annoying while other stuff you can't even find in your country.



It bothers everyone. This article somehow is related to that:
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/makers_machinarium_having_pirate_amnesty_sale

I like their attitude. Make it cheap = get less pirated copies

Interesting article :D I helped my brother find sources for a report about that sort of thing last semester. Basically Steam does a LOT of business by having sales every so often. People who really want the game will buy it for full price, while people who don't know if they'd like it can wait for a sale and get it legally for a fraction of the price.

Drone
09-08-10, 05:54
yes, or Deus Ex :vlol: You can buy Deus Ex and Deus Ex: Invisible War for $4.98. Two cool games for such a funny price?! I mean orly?! What else is one going to use $4.98 for? A bubble gum? :D

Ward Dragon
09-08-10, 05:58
yes, or Deus Ex :vlol: You can buy Deus Ex and Deus Ex: Invisible War for $4.98. Two cool games for such a funny price?! I mean orly?! What else is one going to use $4.98 for? A bubble gum? :D

That's a really good deal :D I'd rather give my money to Steam (and therefore the developers) as opposed to arguing with a clerk in Gamestop about where the bonus CD is with the music tracks and being told I'm lucky to even find the game so I should just take it as it is. Wow, didn't realize I was still a little bitter over that :vlol: But anyway, yeah, if the game is available for such a cheap price there's really no reason to download it illegally. I hope these games sell really well and encourage developers to go that route instead of getting more and more restrictive DRM.

Avalon SARL
09-08-10, 05:59
In my country... you can not beleive how many illegal copies there are...
and this is so ugly...

I tried them before I started working... somewhere before 2002...

First these copies are so terrible...
They crash... they have errors... some do not work at all...

Second: They are insecure... how many small kids are allowed to go buy M games... or even R rated movies :yik: and the vendors DO NOT CARE :eek:

Third: It is Haram and illegal to do so....

Fourth: It is a matter of supporting someone you love :)

Drone
09-08-10, 06:07
That's a really good deal :D I'd rather give my money to Steam (and therefore the developers) as opposed to arguing with a clerk in Gamestop about where the bonus CD is with the music tracks and being told I'm lucky to even find the game so I should just take it as it is. Wow, didn't realize I was still a little bitter over that :vlol: But anyway, yeah, if the game is available for such a cheap price there's really no reason to download it illegally. I hope these games sell really well and encourage developers to go that route instead of getting more and more restrictive DRM.

I absolutely agree. Buying these games is nobrainer for me. Who on earth would waste their traffic and getting an illegal copy which most likely will contain some malware? Internet and electricity bill will coast more, plus it produces more CO2 lol. And yes, people really need to support such things.

oocladableeblah
09-08-10, 06:20
I don't download music or anything illegally. I hate it when people act like people who buy music, games, movies etc are dumb asses because they are spending money on something they can download (illegally). If everyone were to download stuff and no one bought it there would be no more music, games, and movies. Companies wouldn't be making money and thus have no money to make anything.

I will say that I find it lame that when you buy a CD new most of the money goes to the record company and not to the artist.

QiX
09-08-10, 06:29
The same way I don't work for free I expect the people who produced the media products that I consume to receive a fair share of the price I paid for them. They work hard and they have their own bills to pay.

Uzi master
09-08-10, 07:52
All I can say is I wish companies would relinquish copyrights on some of the really old games, but no, obviously they're gonna make so much money off 15 year old games not in production for a very long time:p.

Ward Dragon
09-08-10, 08:38
I absolutely agree. Buying these games is nobrainer for me. Who on earth would waste their traffic and getting an illegal copy which most likely will contain some malware? Internet and electricity bill will coast more, plus it produces more CO2 lol. And yes, people really need to support such things.

Exactly, it's much less aggravation and worry to do it legally anyway.

All I can say is I wish companies would relinquish copyrights on some of the really old games, but no, obviously they're gonna make so much money off 15 year old games not in production for a very long time:p.

Well, it actually seems that many older games are starting to turn up for sale on sites like Steam or Good Old Games, so it's becoming possible to buy these old games legally even if you can't find them in stores anymore :)

jaywalker
09-08-10, 08:56
Unfortunately as long as people keep believing they have the right to `steal` things "because they can, and its harmless as its just a small thing"` they are ignoring the simple fact that SOMEONE has paid for something to be created, and therefore by not paying to use it then someone is out of pocket regardless of how small you think your contribution is. Its not a victimless crime.. there is no `sliding scale` of acceptability for piracy "oh its just 1 song therefore aint a problem"

I know for a FACT that people will just ignore what i say or dismiss it as being `well u would say that since i work for Square` but i follow in a simple position; if i PAY for something then i have the right to use it etc, if i HAVEN'T paid for it then i understand the simple fact that i have NO right to it..

Dennis's Mom
09-08-10, 13:06
I will say that I find it lame that when you buy a CD new most of the money goes to the record company and not to the artist.

What portion the company gets and what portion the artist gets is set out up front in the contract. Unless you've seen the contract, you have no idea how much money the artist or company is getting. I have a feeling that percentage varies greatly.