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aurora89
14-08-10, 00:20
http://chattahbox.com/us/2010/08/13/texas-man-gets-life-in-prison-for-dwi/

Thoughts?

ajrich17901
14-08-10, 00:22
Well personally, I think he should go through rehab instead of facing life in prison. According to the article, the guy has a lot of demons he should face dead on. Going to prison is just like saying "Yeah go ahead rot, we give up on ya." Personally I think every possible thing should be tried before someone is put behind a cell.

MangelinaJolie
14-08-10, 00:31
I find it hard to believe (unless it just isn't mentioned) that he wasn't given AA requirements to fulfill for any of his past DWI's...

Love2Raid
14-08-10, 01:17
No wonder the prisons are too full...

aktrekker
14-08-10, 02:45
8 previous DUI and several other crimes.
I think it's about time something was done.

Besides the article also says he'll get out in 5 years with good behavior.
Some life sentence.

Lee croft
14-08-10, 02:48
I read the title as "Man gets life in prison for DIY"

I thought to myself "could people really be that bad at Do it yourself decorating?? :yik:"

Then i looked agian :p

voltz
14-08-10, 03:26
It's always the little things.... :rolleyes:

Lara's Nemesis
14-08-10, 04:32
The guy has been caught drink driving 9 times, probably got away with it a good few times as well. He deserved a lengthy jail sentence imo.

ajrich17901
14-08-10, 04:36
The guy has been caught drink driving 9 times, probably got away with it a good few times as well. He deserved a lengthy jail sentence imo.

Yeah cuz jail time is the answer to everything, of course.
No, the first or second time it happened they should of given the guy the help he obviously needs, but why do that when ya can fine someone and milk em for everything there worth, and when can't get money out of them may as well let em rot right :rolleyes:

Lara's Nemesis
14-08-10, 04:47
Yeah cuz jail time is the answer to everything, of course.
No, the first or second time it happened they should of given the guy the help he obviously needs, but why do that when ya can fine someone and milk em for everything there worth, and when can't get money out of them may as well let em rot right :rolleyes:

Yeah the guy has obviously got a lot of problems but he still made the decision to drive whilst drunk. He could have ruined one hell of a lot of peoples' lives with his actions.

He's been caught 9 times, surely he must have realised he has a bit of a problem by now. I would be surprised if he hasn't been offered counselling in the past.

ajrich17901
14-08-10, 04:49
Yeah the guy has obviously got a lot of problems but he still made the decision to drive whilst drunk. He could have ruined one hell of a lot of peoples' lives with his actions.

He's been caught 9 times, surely he must have realised he has a bit of a problem by now. I would be surprised if he hasn't been offered counselling in the past.

Well obviously when your drunk your not in your right mind, and the alcohol level he had, heck he should'nt of been able to stand. And yes your right he could have killed someone, and I have thought about that obviously. I guess there really isn't enough info to really discuss the topic at hand, we don't know if he was offered any help, or if he refused that said help, which in the case he did then he's an idiot.

If anything I think they should install breathalizers in every car, where if ya wanna drive ya have to breathe into it first, and well if you don't pass the test your car won't turn on, easy problem fixer for all this dui nonsense, but I'm sure someone will be against the idea lol.

aurora89
14-08-10, 05:22
I think he needs to be off the streets, but I don't know that jail is necessarily best. On the other hand, I'm assuming forcing him into rehab would cost even more for taxpayers than jail, and prison isn't so bad... he'll be forced to sober up, and he'll have good healthcare and a chance to get extra schooling if he wants. *shrugs*

Paddy
14-08-10, 05:25
Yeah cuz jail time is the answer to everything, of course.
No, the first or second time it happened they should of given the guy the help he obviously needs, but why do that when ya can fine someone and milk em for everything there worth, and when can't get money out of them may as well let em rot right :rolleyes:
For repeat offenders it is yes. If he hadnt done it more then 2 or 3 times fair enough maybe jail is extreme but he did it a lot more then that , deserves some jail time for it. Life inprisonment however is way extreme.

Tonyrobinson
14-08-10, 05:25
I would think a rehab would be more befitting in these types of cases. :)

MangelinaJolie
14-08-10, 05:27
http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/drunk_driving/texas-dui.htm

He has had his chance at reformation and rehab.

A 3rd DUI can mean 2-10 years in the penitentiary.

He should consider himself lucky to have not faced this earlier.

TheBloodRed
14-08-10, 05:29
Just 2 charges can get you around 2-4years so imagine 9 charges!!

It totally makes sense with the current legal system setup but I don't think life is the correct sentence. :/

10 years would probably make more sense. The guy is old anyways and would probably die in the prison because of old age. BUT health conditions usually improve when at a prison so the guy would be able to get out free and have learned his lessen. (especially with the lack of alcohol in the prison)

aurora89
14-08-10, 05:36
if you notice, the article states that he could get out on parole in 5 years.

TheBloodRed
14-08-10, 05:39
Hopefully! Life just seems too harsh even though the guy has a history. At least put the sentence in years!! xD

Ward Dragon
14-08-10, 05:51
If anything I think they should install breathalizers in every car, where if ya wanna drive ya have to breathe into it first, and well if you don't pass the test your car won't turn on, easy problem fixer for all this dui nonsense, but I'm sure someone will be against the idea lol.

I don't like those sorts of things because they seem flukey to me. I've heard bad things about a similar mechanism that would prevent the car from starting unless the seat belt is buckled, and I imagine a breathalyzer would be prone to the same problems since it's also interfering with the car's normal startup routine.

Admles
14-08-10, 06:01
If anything I think they should install breathalizers in every car, where if ya wanna drive ya have to breathe into it first, and well if you don't pass the test your car won't turn on, easy problem fixer for all this dui nonsense, but I'm sure someone will be against the idea lol.

Right, because that's such a practical idea, and noone would ever think of tampering with it.

"Oh but officer, as you can see I'm not drunk, my breathalyser has allowed me to start my car" :rolleyes:

Paddy
14-08-10, 06:05
Right, because that's such a practical idea, and noone would ever think of tampering with it.

"Oh but officer, as you can see I'm not drunk, my breathalyser has allowed me to start my car" :rolleyes:
I agree, its not a very practical idea, why should every car have one put on to start it because some ****wits drive while drunk?

Cochrane
14-08-10, 09:09
Life imprisonment is certainly effective at keeping him off the streets. In fact, why not sentence everyone with a drug problem or a mental illness to life in prison? The streets will be way safer that way.

Frankly, of all solutions, this is the second worst I can imagine. This guy needs help, and better help than what he has been getting over the years so far. Thinking that he did this on purpose is absolutely idiotic.

ajrich17901
14-08-10, 09:14
Right, because that's such a practical idea, and noone would ever think of tampering with it.

"Oh but officer, as you can see I'm not drunk, my breathalyser has allowed me to start my car" :rolleyes:

Hey I didn't say people wouldn't screw with it, but its the only option as far as I heard. Just stating my opinion like everyone else.

aktrekker
14-08-10, 09:59
It seems nobody is actually reading the article. Perhaps some quotes would help.
But that wasnít the only nail in Stovallís coffin. Not only did he already have 8 other DWI charges, he was also previously found guilty of burglary, credit card abuse, and supplying alcohol to a minorĖ among other crimes.

With good behavior, Stovall could easily be out on parole in 5 years.

It really isn't that bad. And with all the other crimes he really shouldn't be on the streets anyway.
He will get help in prison. He'll get medical help to quit drinking. He'll get counseling. He'll get education. All at no cost.

Joely-Moley
14-08-10, 12:18
8 previous DUI and several other crimes.
I think it's about time something was done.

Besides the article also says he'll get out in 5 years with good behavior.
Some life sentence.

Exactly. I'm glad he's off the street, he obviously hasn't learned from his mistakes if he is a repeat offender, and I'm sure he had plenty of chances to get himself help.

I have no sympathy for people who operate a vehicle under the influence of drugs or alcohol. It's one thing endangering your own life, but it's not fair to put others at risk too.

aurora89
14-08-10, 15:45
I've been drunk plenty of times. I've never hopped in a car, hurt someone, or broken any laws while drunk. I think for most people you know in the back of your mind your actions could hurt someone so even when you're so hammered you're crawling to the bathroom you don't do them.

So I don't feel alcoholism is a good excuse for endangering other peoples' lives. And look at it this way: If one of my diseases could be cured/put in remission by putting me in jail, and I was using it as an excuse to hurt people (or potentialy hurt people, though this guy did hurt someone in his last DWI if not before!), it really only makes sense for the courts to put me in jail.

Rai
14-08-10, 16:21
I think it is right this man goes to jail. He's had his chances. He must know he has a problem and has he helped himself? Does he stop himself from drink driving and committing crimes? As Aktrekker has pointed out, he'll still get the help he needs in jail and he could be out in 5 years. Jail time may just be what he needs to sort himself out.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
14-08-10, 16:24
8 previous DUI and several other crimes.
I think it's about time something was done.

Besides the article also says he'll get out in 5 years with good behavior.
Some life sentence.

I agree with the Trekker....

Capt. Murphy
14-08-10, 16:49
8 previous DUI and several other crimes.
I think it's about time something was done.

Besides the article also says he'll get out in 5 years with good behavior.
Some life sentence.

Maybe they don't expect him to live that long. :p

Super Badnik
14-08-10, 16:57
Life in prison is way too harsh. I know he did put himself and others at risk, but he isn't a real criminal who willingly harms others. He has a problem with alcohol, there is no reason why he couldn't be rehabilitated and in that case lead a safe life where he is not a threat to anyone.

Bongo Fury
14-08-10, 18:19
sounds fair to me. the dude still has the opportunity to get out in five if he cleans up his act - otherwise he can stay in for the duration. five years for nine dui's doesn't seem extreme. the rest is up to him.

interstellardave
14-08-10, 20:58
For at least 5 years other drivers and pedestrians are safe from him. Not bad.

Cochrane
14-08-10, 22:03
It seems nobody is actually reading the article. Perhaps some quotes would help.




It really isn't that bad. And with all the other crimes he really shouldn't be on the streets anyway.
He will get help in prison. He'll get medical help to quit drinking. He'll get counseling. He'll get education. All at no cost.

Well, he was presumably punished for the other crimes already, punishing him for them again is very questionable. Do the needs of society outweigh his rights that much? I could get behind a five years sentence (grudgingly), but a sentence without an upper bound is too extreme.

And letís be honest, he wonít clean up his act. Suppose he comes out sober and full of good ideals. What are the job chances of a 59 year old guy with this much of a rap sheet, time in prison and a long history of alcohol abuse? Unless he can get a masters degree in prison, at least, there is a damn good chance he will end up unemployed and unhappy. Not the best environment to stay sober in.

I have no idea what to do with him instead. One does have to consider the risk he is to society, of course, but five years minimum, possibly life, that seems too biased against him for me.

Draco
15-08-10, 01:31
It is never okay to drive drunk. It is never not intentional. It is never an accident. There are exactly zero valid reasons to drive drunk.

He knew what he was doing.

Personally I think the first offense should come with mandatory jail time.

aktrekker
15-08-10, 02:01
In my state we have a 3 strikes law. The third time would have been life in prison without the possibility of parole.
Of course most people plea bargain the felony charge down to a misdemeanor. But still, before he hit 9 charges the judge would have disallowed the plea bargain. Besides the burglary and whatever else.

Uzi master
15-08-10, 02:36
just wondering but what are the speciffics of the three strikes law? personnaly the concept of getting arrested three times and going to prison for 25-life seems harsh, but I bet it has to be a bad enough crime, right?

domina
15-08-10, 03:12
It is never okay to drive drunk. It is never not intentional. It is never an accident. There are exactly zero valid reasons to drive drunk.

He knew what he was doing.

Personally I think the first offense should come with mandatory jail time.

It does, depending on where you live. It's a minimum of 24 hours in my state.

aktrekker
15-08-10, 03:58
just wondering but what are the speciffics of the three strikes law? personnaly the concept of getting arrested three times and going to prison for 25-life seems harsh, but I bet it has to be a bad enough crime, right?
It's 3 felonies. And it's not 25-life. It's life. Period.
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0006.htm (legal description)
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002007339_threestrikes17m.html (describes plea bargaining)
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/aug/11/nation/na-three-strikes11 (governor can grant clemency)

robm_2007
15-08-10, 04:59
where does drunk driving take place the most at? i think it would be when a person is leaving from a bar?

aktrekker
15-08-10, 05:22
Probably.
But it's against the law to sit outside the bar and catch them. It's called entrapment.
See how screwed up the legal system is?

Cochrane
15-08-10, 09:07
It is never okay to drive drunk. It is never not intentional. It is never an accident. There are exactly zero valid reasons to drive drunk.

He knew what he was doing.

Personally I think the first offense should come with mandatory jail time.
Look at his blood alcohol level. That guy is an alcoholic, otherwise he would have died or at least been unconscious at these levels already (assuming I am converting to the numbers we use here correctly). Obviously this does not excuse his behavior, but I am not convinced that he really had a choice in the matter.

In my state we have a 3 strikes law. The third time would have been life in prison without the possibility of parole.
Of course most people plea bargain the felony charge down to a misdemeanor. But still, before he hit 9 charges the judge would have disallowed the plea bargain. Besides the burglary and whatever else.
Damn it, thatís extreme. I hope we never get something like that here.

Ward Dragon
15-08-10, 09:25
Look at his blood alcohol level. That guy is an alcoholic, otherwise he would have died or at least been unconscious at these levels already (assuming I am converting to the numbers we use here correctly). Obviously this does not excuse his behavior, but I am not convinced that he really had a choice in the matter.

My father used to be an alcoholic. He had a BAC twice what this guy had when he finally got sent to the hospital with alcohol poisoning (then went through AA and stopped drinking). He probably routinely drank even more than this guy did, but still he never drove drunk. I'm definitely not inclined to give this guy a free pass for drunk driving just because he was drunk when he made the decision to drive.

However, if this guy gets locked up in rehab instead of prison, that's fine with me if he can't get out either way. As long as he's off the streets and can't hit anybody else, that's good enough.

lunavixen
15-08-10, 10:40
prison doesn't rehabilitate, i'm a criminology student and i've seen so many reports and piles of evidence that prove that prison increases recidivism, not to mention it costs more to keep a person in minimum security prison for 1 day then i earn in a week, while yes this driver does deserve to be punished for causing harm to others and endangering them, prison isn't the whole answer, he should be made to wear an alcohol detection bracelet to ensure he doesn't drink and compulsory attendance to alcoholics anonymous to help him overcome his alcoholism in addition to prison time for harming that other driver

aktrekker
15-08-10, 10:45
He'll get counseling in prison. Probably not compulsory, but his parole may depend on attendance and progress.
Unfortunately, being in prison doesn't guarantee he'll be dry.

lunavixen
15-08-10, 11:00
unfortunately this is the legal system, i can't see what i said truly happening, it'll be more like what you are saying

(WHOO! 600 posts!)

Ward Dragon
15-08-10, 11:17
prison doesn't rehabilitate, i'm a criminology student and i've seen so many reports and piles of evidence that prove that prison increases recidivism, not to mention it costs more to keep a person in minimum security prison for 1 day then i earn in a week, while yes this driver does deserve to be punished for causing harm to others and endangering them, prison isn't the whole answer, he should be made to wear an alcohol detection bracelet to ensure he doesn't drink and compulsory attendance to alcoholics anonymous to help him overcome his alcoholism in addition to prison time for harming that other driver

Yeah, that definitely seems to be true. Personally my main concern for criminals is keeping them from harming other people rather than punishing them, so if they are nonviolent to begin with or if their violence was the result of extreme circumstances, I've got nothing against putting them in completely separate facilities which are geared towards rehabilitation rather than being a traditional prison.

I mean, as long as they are locked up and can't hurt anyone, that's the main point of prison so it's not like they are getting away with their crimes and it would still be a deterrent because they would still not be allowed to leave until their sentences were up. However, the conditions would be more conducive to rehabilitation and there wouldn't be real danger of being attacked by other inmates, so no need for them to become violent in order to survive their sentences.

The current prison system only makes sense to me for criminals who will never be released. It makes absolutely no sense to essentially force criminals to become even more violent and vicious in order to survive their sentences and then turn them loose on society again. That's like the exact opposite of what we should be doing XD

Draco
15-08-10, 20:56
It does, depending on where you live. It's a minimum of 24 hours in my state.

Spending the night in the drunk tank isn't what I meant.

Draco
15-08-10, 21:02
Look at his blood alcohol level. That guy is an alcoholic, otherwise he would have died or at least been unconscious at these levels already (assuming I am converting to the numbers we use here correctly). Obviously this does not excuse his behavior, but I am not convinced that he really had a choice in the matter.

Well, I wish I was surprised at your posts, but it is archetypical leftist thinking to avoid individual responsibility.

Clearly its my fault this guy is an alcoholic and has no self control.

I've been drunk and I was perfectly able to decide to not drive.

Say no to the idea of no personal responsibility.

aurora89
16-08-10, 01:03
Well, I wish I was surprised at your posts, but it is archetypical leftist thinking to avoid individual responsibility.

Clearly its my fault this guy is an alcoholic and has no self control.

I've been drunk and I was perfectly able to decide to not drive.

Say no to the idea of no personal responsibility.

Dude, it's not a leftist thing. :rolleyes: I'm about as left/liberal as they come and I think getting him off the streets after that many charges, DWI and otherwise, is probably a good thing.

He's getting 5 years then life on parole... I really don't think that's so bad. It seems as though he doesn't want to be rehabilitated, so prison is probably the safest for other people.

Draco
16-08-10, 05:46
But do you believe it is his fault?

_Awestruck_
16-08-10, 05:57
.32? :eek:

Alpharaider47
16-08-10, 06:04
Well, he made the choice to drink and now he has to suffer the consequences. And he's in Texas of all places... you don't eff around in Texas because they certainly won't! :p

Uzi master
16-08-10, 06:22
Well, he made the choice to drink and now he has to suffer the consequences. And he's in Texas of all places... you don't eff around in Texas because they certainly won't! :p

thats one way to put it,:ton:

aurora89
16-08-10, 06:29
Draco, it may not be his fault that he's an alcoholic, but yes, it's his fault he got behind the wheel of a car. There are many people that get drunk and do not drive cars, stab people, hit family members, or rape children. Those that do have serious issues while sober and can't blame the alcohol for it, even if they're alcoholics. I mean, really! Being drunk is NOT an excuse to do those things, even though alcoholism could be an 'excuse' for someone's being drunk a lot. Being drunk is generally harmless except to your own health/career (and obviously those affected by those things)... if you just lie on the couch playing L4D while drunk all the time, who cares besides people who rely on you? And that's not to downplay the seriousness of it, but I don't go around driving when I think I might have a seizure or something. And even if I did (I'm still learning and I'm on meds but it's still got a few kinks to work out) I don't get in a car and drive WHILE I'm having a seizure, or anything, lol.

The illness is probably not his fault. The driving 9 times when he knows it's not safe, burglarizing, etc.? Yeah, that's his fault.

Draco
16-08-10, 08:05
...Draco, it may not be his fault that he's an alcoholic...

How can it not be?

Alpharaider47
16-08-10, 08:16
Alcoholic or not he still made the decision to drink for the first time...

aurora89
16-08-10, 17:43
Alcoholic or not he still made the decision to drink for the first time...

Most people drink. He couldn't necessarily have known he had the gene for alcoholism (which is what it is). I mean, a few people do, but it's unreasonable to hink that most people will know and subsequently not take that first drink!

I can drink heavily, basically abusing alcohol, and not be at all addicted. I can stop any time I need to (and have, for weeks on end, to take a certain medicine or focus on school or simply not upset the people around me). I'm cautious because alcoholism runs in my family, but I don't seem to have the addictive gene.

On the other hand, my mom can take prescription pain medicine twice in the same week and be really addicted. She has never been an alcoholic but she can't drink, take Rx pain medicine, or even play video games because she gets too addicted.

But the fact of the matter is, he's not in jail for being an alcoholic. He's not in jail for being an alcoholic. Whether you think alcoholism is a choice or not (and it's not-- the whole point of an addiction is that you DON'T have a choice. If you have the choice it's not an addiction/alcoholism!) doesn't even matter.

He's in jail for getting behind the wheel of a car while drunk NINE times, as well as various other crimes. It doesn't matter how you feel about alcoholism. Alcoholism doesn't kill other people-- your actions while drunk can, though, and you're held responsible for them.

Trust me, I've been drunk, and I still knew better than to drive or hurt people.

Zebra
16-08-10, 17:58
edit

Draco
16-08-10, 17:58
That was my point all along, but to comment on addictions in general: typically strong addictions are garnered from a perceived defficiency in a persons daily life that the addiction seems to vanquish. Its all psychological, just like depression, etc.

Alpharaider47
16-08-10, 18:49
Most people drink. He couldn't necessarily have known he had the gene for alcoholism (which is what it is). I mean, a few people do, but it's unreasonable to hink that most people will know and subsequently not take that first drink!

I can drink heavily, basically abusing alcohol, and not be at all addicted. I can stop any time I need to (and have, for weeks on end, to take a certain medicine or focus on school or simply not upset the people around me). I'm cautious because alcoholism runs in my family, but I don't seem to have the addictive gene.

On the other hand, my mom can take prescription pain medicine twice in the same week and be really addicted. She has never been an alcoholic but she can't drink, take Rx pain medicine, or even play video games because she gets too addicted.

But the fact of the matter is, he's not in jail for being an alcoholic. He's not in jail for being an alcoholic. Whether you think alcoholism is a choice or not (and it's not-- the whole point of an addiction is that you DON'T have a choice. If you have the choice it's not an addiction/alcoholism!) doesn't even matter.

He's in jail for getting behind the wheel of a car while drunk NINE times, as well as various other crimes. It doesn't matter how you feel about alcoholism. Alcoholism doesn't kill other people-- your actions while drunk can, though, and you're held responsible for them.

Trust me, I've been drunk, and I still knew better than to drive or hurt people.
I wasn't saying that alcoholism is a choice, I was saying that taking a drink for the first time and thus exposing yourself to becoming addicted is a choice. Btw, my grandmother is an alcoholic :o

aurora89
16-08-10, 18:59
That was my point all along, but to comment on addictions in general: typically strong addictions are garnered from a perceived defficiency in a persons daily life that the addiction seems to vanquish. Its all psychological, just like depression, etc.

LOL. No it's not. Depression and addiction CAN be psychological, but you're obviously woefully ignorant if you think that they're both *always* psychological. Both can be genetically proven to be inherited, which shoots your little theory down nicely. If that weren't enough, you can look at MRI's and CT scans of patients with depression or addiction, and their brain looks differently and acts differently than patients with normal brains. There's so much scientific proof that addiction and depression and all sorts of other things are NOT purely psychological, that I laugh when someone tries to insist that they are. :rolleyes: Yep, and the sun revolves around the earth, bleeding people is the best way to cure them, and witches should be burned at the stake. Woohoo!

But our opinions on the matter are completely irrelevant. He's in jail for his actions, not his illness. If I kill someone in a steroid rage because of my health problems, I still go to jail for it regardless of whether a teenager on the internet thinks I'm really sick or not. :p

Draco
16-08-10, 19:04
Psychological problems can be inherited... why do you think otherwise?

aurora89
16-08-10, 20:27
Psychological problems can be inherited... why do you think otherwise?

Yes, that's true, but depression and addiction are often GENETICALLY inherited. Physically inherited. It's in their DNA to be alcoholic. Even if they were dropped on someone else's doorstep at birth and raised by southern baptists, they could still turn into an alcoholic after drinking a few drinks socially.

So no, it's not "all psychological" as you initially said. The facts and experts and entire medical community speak otherwise.

Whether or not he's 'tried hard enough' to overcome it is another question. Have I worked hard enough to overcome my debilitating illnesses? I could probably eat more organic foods, take more supplements, beg my doctor for more tests or medicine, fly out to see specialists in L.A. But really, he's under no obligation to get better... just to NOT get in his car while drunk!

Draco
16-08-10, 21:06
You, like most people, are going off the idea that there is a separation between the 'hardware' and the 'software' of our brains. That is part of the soul myth, or more specifically the part about our soul being a mere resident in our bodies and not an integrated component.

Basically, hardware needs software and visa versa.

Ward Dragon
17-08-10, 10:25
You, like most people, are going off the idea that there is a separation between the 'hardware' and the 'software' of our brains. That is part of the soul myth, or more specifically the part about our soul being a mere resident in our bodies and not an integrated component.

Basically, hardware needs software and visa versa.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but a lot of psychological problems are due to chemical imbalances and the person would not be able to overcome them through sheer willpower alone. If someone's illness is due to a chemical imbalance then they need medical help to get the chemical levels back where they should be before they can get better. I think that's what aurora was saying, and I can't see how the concept of soul ties into that idea :confused:

Draco
17-08-10, 14:14
I'm saying its all related, wherever your issue is sourced, it is still essentially a mental problem.

Ward Dragon
17-08-10, 14:34
I'm saying its all related, wherever your issue is sourced, it is still essentially a mental problem.

But if it has a physical source, such as a chemical imbalance or brain tumor, then the person cannot overcome it without treating the underlying physical problem that is causing it.

aurora89
17-08-10, 15:20
But if it has a physical source, such as a chemical imbalance or brain tumor, then the person cannot overcome it without treating the underlying physical problem that is causing it.

:rolleyes: People will believe what they want to, regardless of facts or science or proof. My mom believes cancer is all psychologically based too and you can overcome it with emotional help. =/

Draco
17-08-10, 17:57
But if it has a physical source, such as a chemical imbalance or brain tumor, then the person cannot overcome it without treating the underlying physical problem that is causing it.

When did I say this is not the case?

:rolleyes: People will believe what they want to, regardless of facts or science or proof. My mom believes cancer is all psychologically based too and you can overcome it with emotional help. =/

The facts support this, but its people who need there to be a separation that create one. And what makes you think I believe cancer is psychological? It certainly can have a psychological effect. And it can be affected by your psychological state.

Alpharaider47
17-08-10, 18:02
:rolleyes: People will believe what they want to, regardless of facts or science or proof. My mom believes cancer is all psychologically based too and you can overcome it with emotional help. =/

Well placebo does work wonders.

Ward Dragon
17-08-10, 19:36
When did I say this is not the case?


When you said this:

Its all psychological, just like depression, etc.

I thought you were saying that there aren't physical causes for those illnesses. If that's not what you meant, then nevermind :)

Draco
18-08-10, 00:03
I was talking aboout addiction specifically, which is personality governed.

Cochrane
18-08-10, 06:43
Well, I wish I was surprised at your posts, but it is archetypical leftist thinking to avoid individual responsibility.

Clearly its my fault this guy is an alcoholic and has no self control.

I've been drunk and I was perfectly able to decide to not drive.

Say no to the idea of no personal responsibility.
My objection is not to the idea of personal responsibility, but to the idea of cruel and unusual punishment. Assuming that he is an alcoholic, he is punished here for being sick. Obviously it is still his own fault that he drove while drunk, and he is likely at fault for not getting help far earlier, but this punishment is way out of proportion for that.

If this guy canít be let out because he poses a danger to society, then it may indeed be necessary to lock him up indefinitely. But in my opinion, that should be a measure separate from punishment, similar to court-ordered therapy.

Alpharaider47
18-08-10, 06:52
^^ I think that's pretty fair for Texas... There's a reason you don't mess with Texas :vlol:

Lara's Nemesis
18-08-10, 06:59
I'm pretty sure this guy is not going to be the first alcoholic that has ever been jailed before.

He broke the law a lot of times, endangering innocent peoples lives in the process.

Draco
18-08-10, 14:22
My objection is not to the idea of personal responsibility, but to the idea of cruel and unusual punishment. Assuming that he is an alcoholic, he is punished here for being sick. Obviously it is still his own fault that he drove while drunk, and he is likely at fault for not getting help far earlier, but this punishment is way out of proportion for that.

If this guy canít be let out because he poses a danger to society, then it may indeed be necessary to lock him up indefinitely. But in my opinion, that should be a measure separate from punishment, similar to court-ordered therapy.

His addiction is going to be addressed just by being in prison. As for cruel and unusual, the guy is a chronic offender and clearly has no issue with risking the lives of other people and himself.

knightgames
20-08-10, 07:39
WHERE'S the frikken delete button for posts I wish to erase?