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IceColdLaraCroft
04-09-10, 03:50
Why is the Devil always depicted as a something demonic? Wasn't Lucifer a fallen Angel? So shouldn't he be depicted as an Angel?

Wouldn't it make more sense as a lesson to demonstrate that someone can be evil while looking like an Angel? Or that those closest to God are the ones you really have to watch out for?

In my opinion a handsome angelic creature would be much more likely to lure away one of God's flock than some demon.

What are your thoughts?

larafan25
04-09-10, 03:57
Why is the Devil always depicted as a something demonic? Wasn't Lucifer a fallen Angel? So shouldn't he be depicted as an Angel?

Wouldn't it make more sense as a lesson to demonstrate that someone can be evil while looking like an Angel? Or that those closest to God are the ones you really have to watch out for?

In my opinion a handsome angelic creature would be much more likely to lure away one of God's flock than some demon.

What are your thoughts?

I agree, it makes sense.

While we are at it.

Why did God destroy that tower...the tower of Babel or something?

amore-guy
04-09-10, 04:06
Very good point Marc!:tmb:

Niveus
04-09-10, 04:12
Why did God destroy that tower...the tower of Babel or something?

Because man was banished from Eden and heaven or whatever, and rumour set around about its luxuries. Generations later, all the people gathered to build that tower to get to heaven, so of course, bam, He destroyed it.
I hope that is how it goes and my memory hasn't failed me. :p

Anyway, I half agree with this.
I think the idea of a demonic devil is to show even the nicest can be lured in by something so horrific...? I don't know.

MattTR
04-09-10, 04:48
Well to be as completely non-religios as possible, angels didn't necessarily wear white clothes and have halos and white wings either, right? I guess it's just the image history has given them, with them being modernized as time goes on. :eek:

LaraLuvrrr
04-09-10, 04:55
Funny I found this thread when today I was pondering the devil and discussing it.

I have my own theory about the devil. First I think everything he represents is excesses and dysfunction. So Lucifer to me is the enticing attraction that if not controlled will turn into the devil and lead you to hell.

Lucifer I feel is meant to show how the most beautiful of things can turn into the most ugly of things when the ego isn't checked.

At the same time though I think many of the things that satan represents are fueled by the very God that Christian, Jewish, and Muslim believe in. Because these religions instead of attempting to balance human desire they believe they are inherently evil and should be stopped. This leads to repression which leads to dysfunction which then leads to the very things their Satan represents.

Draco
04-09-10, 04:56
The devil is always in the image of what you most desire.

MattTR
04-09-10, 05:00
The devil is always in the image of what you most desire.

Ah, I get it now.

http://www.myimvuavatar.com/graphics/tux/1/tux4.png

Isn't he cute? :D

LaraLuvrrr
04-09-10, 05:00
The devil is always in the image of what you most desire.

To me the devil is excessive desire.

The desire to have sex for example to me isn't the devil but rather when that desire becomes excessive and can lead to negative consequences that the person knows but indulges anyways then that is the "devil."

I prefer Eastern religions so much more because they don't throw crazy imagery and call a force the devil. They just believe in opposing forces and the importance of balance. That's what I believe.

Lukass
04-09-10, 06:29
Lucifer "The one who bring a light" (lol guardian of light) was the first angel created by God. But he didn't want to be second after GoD, he wanted to be first. God didn't destroy him.

I don't believe there is a hell somewhere. I believe when soul is dead then the soul is making her/his own hell in her/his mind after death. For example when it was bad person. But place like a hell doesn't exists.

Alpharaider47
04-09-10, 06:36
As far as the imagery is concerned, it always reminded me of that idea that if you depict your enemy as very different or utterly alien it's easier to fight. Example- propaganda during the World Wars- Germans and Japanese were depicted in numerous ways to make them seem inhuman. But that's my perception of it :p

scoopy_loopy
04-09-10, 06:57
I've always pictured Lucifer as beautiful, after all God always took great pride in his creations & because he's a icon of temptation. I also really like the story where Lucifer is banished from Heaven for refusing to worship what God thought was his most Noble work (Humanity), instead of worshipping and adoring God alone as the Angels had previously been commanded, because Lucifer loved and adored God so very much that he was simply unable to worship anything else and because he refused to bow to anything made of something lesser than himself. (Humanity from clay, Lucifer from fire).

I think the story comes from a Islamic perspective. Anyway, I thought it was interesting.

Changeling
04-09-10, 07:42
Satan is depicted as demonic because it looks scarier, therefore more scaremongering ("If you do this or if you don't do that, you will go to Hell!"). Though Satan may be depicted as evil, it's much more threatening to be sent to a horrific realm with a demonic-looking monster than a beautiful fallen angel.

Little-Lara
04-09-10, 07:53
Oh my, what a thread! :p I can see what u mean though.

Why is the Devil always depicted as a something demonic? Wasn't Lucifer a fallen Angel? So shouldn't he be depicted as an Angel?

Wouldn't it make more sense as a lesson to demonstrate that someone can be evil while looking like an Angel? Or that those closest to God are the ones you really have to watch out for?

In my opinion a handsome angelic creature would be much more likely to lure away one of God's flock than some demon.

What are your thoughts?

Yes, he's a fallen angel....... And that would be a good example, but the teacher should be safe to avoid 'extremism' since it will lead to hatred.....At the same time though, a handsome angelic creature would also be likely to lure one towards a God's flock than some demon.......

Each and every one of us here will, and have, faced 'demons' and had to get through them. We have also come across face to face with demons and angels....but its really up to us how we handle them.

But why the topic of Angels/Demons? Are you facing 'demons' of your own? :o You don't have to share if you don't want...We can all use this thread to put our 'demons' into perspective. ;)

@Alpharaider47
Your perception of it IMO couldn't be more right, hun. It is IMO the very root of creation of any propaganda. :(

Edit: And I can somewhat guess that we'll be seeing and experiencing more topics like this one, in other forums, and/or in front of us.

Uzi master
04-09-10, 08:02
here's another question for you people, if god loves everyone and everything, why did he create hell? why did he send satan there? or anyone for that matter, if god really loves all living things.

Lukass
04-09-10, 08:13
here's another question for you people, if god loves everyone and everything, why did he create hell? why did he send satan there? or anyone for that matter, if god really loves all living things.

Hell as a demonic place doesn't exists. Hell is actually state of mind after death. But everyone after death is in Heaven. Those who killed themselves create their own hell after death - but actually in their own mind only. The same those who killed someone or bad people. Their souls are tortured (by themselves) after death - and that's hell.

the ancient
04-09-10, 08:21
here's another question for you people, if god loves everyone and everything, why did he create hell? why did he send satan there? or anyone for that matter, if god really loves all living things.

I thought God made hell to punish Satan and the other fallen angels/Demons

Than Satan who wanted to rule his own place made Hell his own taking the souls of the bad people :p

ryan91
04-09-10, 08:29
if god knows everything, why did he create lucifer? he knew that lucifer gonna be a sicko fricko one day..

i think my question is more hecked up :D.

ps: i believe in god. i just have so many unanswered questions :D.

scoopy_loopy
04-09-10, 08:33
here's another question for you people, if god loves everyone and everything, why did he create hell? why did he send satan there? or anyone for that matter, if god really loves all living things.

I doubt God truly loves everyone. He's really quite nasty, the things he's done to 'punish' us, SCREAM of anything but merciful or benevolent.

If anything Jesus was nice, God was vindictive.

almayah
04-09-10, 09:02
We learn a lot about it in school. before I start a religion war in this thread, I'm just gonna say that what IceColdLaraCroft isn't correct at the muslim point of view. Like I said, don't wanna start a war here :/

Lukass
04-09-10, 09:11
Wars and all these things are not because God want it. He can't help us for one simple reason. God is created by a Love and Light. He can't feel pain, upset, anger and so on...HE CAN'T HELP US BECAUSE HE DON'T UNDERSTAND OUR PAINFUL THOUGHTS OR TROUBLES.

scoopy_loopy
04-09-10, 09:14
We learn a lot about it in school. before I start a religion war in this thread, I'm just gonna say that what IceColdLaraCroft isn't correct at the muslim point of view. Like I said, don't wanna start a war here :/

You're not starting a war :) I'm interested to hear how you've learnt the story.

Archetype
04-09-10, 09:21
I doubt God truly loves everyone. He's really quite nasty, the things he's done to 'punish' us, SCREAM of anything but merciful or benevolent.

If anything Jesus was nice, God was vindictive.

Yet Jesus is God incarnate?

Wars and all these things are not because God want it. He can't help us for one simple reason. God is created by a Love and Light. He can't feel pain, upset, anger and so on...HE CAN'T HELP US BECAUSE HE DON'T UNDERSTAND OUR PAINFUL THOUGHTS OR TROUBLES.

God feel's everyone's pain, emotion and know's everyone's thoughts and problems. If you want his help, you have to make the choice to seek him.

scoopy_loopy
04-09-10, 09:32
Yet Jesus is God incarnate?


I don't think it was as straight-forward as that.

Ikas90
04-09-10, 09:35
here's another question for you people, if god loves everyone and everything, why did he create hell? why did he send satan there? or anyone for that matter, if god really loves all living things.

This is exactly the question that has weakened my faith in religion.

Religion can be very corrupted and twisted, depending on how you look at it. The way humanity has manipulated religion has made it far more difficult to know the truth. It's why I try to separate God from religion.

I still believe there is a God in all of this. But there's something very, very fishy about religion. Something just isn't right.

Little-Lara
04-09-10, 09:36
Hell as a demonic place doesn't exists. Hell is actually state of mind after death. But everyone after death is in Heaven. Those who killed themselves create their own hell after death - but actually in their own mind only. The same those who killed someone or bad people. Their souls are tortured (by themselves) after death - and that's hell.

If this is all true, then hopefully it won't apply to people with depression. :o

Archetype
04-09-10, 09:37
I don't think it was as straight-forward as that.

clearly is if you look at his actions

xXhayleyroxXx
04-09-10, 09:44
I agree, he should be depicted as a fallen angel :tmb: The generic devil images we see are only based on his evil and what an artist believes what an evil being would look like. I suppose its like Jesus as well -- wouldn't he have relatively dark skin? & yet he's white with long mousey hair.

scoopy_loopy
04-09-10, 09:46
This is exactly the question that has weakened my faith in religion.

Religion can be very corrupted and twisted, depending on how you look at it. The way humanity has manipulated religion has made it far more difficult to know the truth. It's why I try to separate God from religion.

I still believe there is a God in all of this. But there's something very, very fishy about religion. Something just isn't right.

I think similarly: Religion and the churches have been screwy for centuries. but the messages behind all of the bureaucracy and secrecy are still good messages.

Archetype
04-09-10, 09:50
I agree, he should be depicted as a fallen angel :tmb: The generic devil images we see are only based on his evil and what an artist believes what an evil being would look like. I suppose its like Jesus as well -- wouldn't he have relatively dark skin? & yet he's white with long mousey hair.

All the artistic representations of Jesus that I've seen, he has dark brown hair oO

TombOfRaiders
04-09-10, 10:46
here's another question for you people, if god loves everyone and everything, why did he create hell? why did he send satan there? or anyone for that matter, if god really loves all living things.

I used to think it was to balance the equation. God unbalanced it and so threw out Satan to balance it. xD (That's far off the mark)

larson n natla
04-09-10, 10:48
To me Lucifer, and 'God' are two fictional characters in the world most deceiving fairytale.

CerebralAssassin
04-09-10, 10:53
I always saw the devil as a hot woman!:p

Squibbly
04-09-10, 11:08
The devil is always in the image of what you most desire.

If I believed in the devil, this is what I'd think. That and, as the story goes, he was an angel so I don't know why he's always depicted as a scary beast. I suppose his looks come from people trying to draw "evil".

I suppose its like Jesus as well -- wouldn't he have relatively dark skin? & yet he's white with long mousey hair.

Yes, definitely. Dark hair, skin, eyes. I was told he was Hebrew, but I haven't a clue so feel free to correct me. I don't think anyone's really sure, are they? He absolutely would not have had that blond hair blue eyed movie star look as he's most often portrayed (moreso in Catholic churches it seems). :p

scoopy_loopy
04-09-10, 11:11
All the artistic representations of Jesus that I've seen, he has dark brown hair oO

Mousy: is drab brown.

I, Tomb Raider
04-09-10, 11:16
Yeah, it's a really good point you have there but I never believed those God ans Satan stuff. It's all pointless things to me. :pi:
The Satan in South Park was really cool. :cool:

http://www.weirdspace.dk/SouthPark/Graphics/Satan.gif

:vlol:

ShadyCroft
04-09-10, 11:24
I always saw the devil as a hot woman! :p

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_04kO9UyTkWg/ScF_X7g8a3I/AAAAAAAAAcg/X-1kfMJk64I/s320/bedazzled_l.jpg
http://hollywoodjesus.com/movie/bedazzled/devil_01.jpg

:p

jYp-QgBGiT0

scoopy_loopy
04-09-10, 11:25
One of my favourite singers, Emilie Simon, sings about the Devil being a "she" in one of her songs, too.


It's all up for personal interpretation, I guess :)

Lukass
04-09-10, 12:13
Do you guys believe that the Tourin shroud is not fake?

Dennis's Mom
04-09-10, 13:28
Many of the ideas we have about "heavenly" beings are so old we don't even understand their origins. Angels are depicted with wings because they're messengers of God, not because they actually have wings. This is an old holdover of Greek mythology where wings were the symbol of Hermes.

Just like today, once an idea catches hold of the populace it's nearly impossible to displace. My bet is that the image gained its footing during medieval times, when witch hunting was a favorite pastime. Once one person claimed to have seen this vision and drew it, it became the standard depiction, and everyone used it.

I mean, we all know what aliens "look like" for the same reason. If you saw this: (http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTDWFtjhKO9sYgbVrykk2evB9KLMs_ph aJtbHxom2V8A2dvYlY&t=1&usg=__t-U2kxJ-RH8ptM9uKXpBsRWyw1E=) you'd know it was aliens.

TRfan23
04-09-10, 13:36
I would assume people would want to depict an image of a man to express Good to be God.

And evil to be depicted by a man who's bad as Satan.

I can't think much for this topic but it is interesting :)

-------------------------------------------------------

As for Jesus, I doubt he was black as in Israel people are predominately white. And I doubt that'd have changed in the past 2000 years.

As for the language he didn't speak Hebrew but Aramaic. That's why the film 'The Passion of the Christ' is flawed in the language ;)

The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, the New Testament was partially written in Aramaic but mostly Greek.

scoopy_loopy
04-09-10, 13:39
^
Hasn't there been a lot of controversy lately about him actually being stereotypically middle-eastern of appearance, and not Caucasian - though?

peeves
04-09-10, 13:55
Well i always thought that everybody goes to hell when they die and heaven don't exist or maybe I could be wrong and everyone reincarnates.

IceColdLaraCroft
04-09-10, 15:19
I created the thread not because I am facing my own demons, but because the history channel had a documentary on about witches and it developed in my mind from there.

Personally i've never thought of the Christ-God as ever being "involved" in the lives of everyday people. He gave man free will. The free choice for people to do as they wished then Jesus and Mohammad spoke about how to treat each other, but I interpret their words as how humans should agree to treat each other not necessarily as some divine commandment.

If you consider the image of demons they look very predatorial. Like they could physically devour us or inflict some sort of bodily harm. However if you consider the cruelest people in the world they were the ones that seemed ordinary. That they possessed no extreme characteristics other than their intentions and motivations.

I'm sure there are all kinds of metaphors for why demons and the devil are depicted in that manner, but if you consider all the greatest sins of the world it'd be more likely to "corrupt" others with someone who is attractive.

In the middle ages i think if someone saw a demon as it was depicted they'd die of a heart attack rather than submitting willingly or seeking out such a creature.

Twilight
04-09-10, 18:44
Wait a second, if people who choose to do bad are put in a place of punishment, wouldn't that make the leader of that punishment...good?

TRLegendLuver
04-09-10, 18:49
Hell as a demonic place doesn't exists. Hell is actually state of mind after death. But everyone after death is in Heaven. Those who killed themselves create their own hell after death - but actually in their own mind only. The same those who killed someone or bad people. Their souls are tortured (by themselves) after death - and that's hell.

Wow. Never heard of that one before...don't agree at all though, but okay.

digitizedboy
04-09-10, 19:30
Liz Hurley played The Devil once. Does she look demonic? :D

EDIT : Oh someone already posted.

vega82
04-09-10, 20:02
Why is the Devil always depicted as a something demonic?Because it was created (by some religious authorities) as the source and manifestation of evil. This is like asking ¿why are shoes used to walk? :p

Wasn't Lucifer a fallen Angel? So shouldn't he be depicted as an Angel? 'Lucifer' was an asyrian king, I don't remember his name now but there was nothing demonic or supernatural about him. It was 'retconned' later by the christians as a literaly dark, fallen angel... but anyways, Satan (the devil) and Lucifer (not the asyrian king, the ancient myth of the Light Bringer) were not the same, the church made that up (among a lot of other things). If you search deeper into it, it gets really confusing, because "Lucifer" is all over the place... in a LOT of cultures is a benevolent aspect of God. The root of this myth is really ancient... such culturally and geographically diverse deities as Prometheus, Lord Shiva and Kukulkan share the same root of "Lucifer" the Light bringer, the peacock spirit, "whose wisdom enlightens us, humans to become better beings". Modern Theosophy (and basically the New-Age movement) also share this ancient, original concept about Lucifer.

In few words, only in christianity Devil=Lucifer=evil. Satanist have also completely distorted Lucifer, but in a different way.

PS: speaking about Satan, he wasn't evil either... he was an angel whose job was to tempt humans yes, but under God's (YHWH) orders, not his own will (angels supposedly lack free will).

Wouldn't it make more sense as a lesson to demonstrate that someone can be evil while looking like an Angel? Or that those closest to God are the ones you really have to watch out for?

In my opinion a handsome angelic creature would be much more likely to lure away one of God's flock than some demon.
It's been a lot since I read the Bible, but I believe Jesus said something in that line... but of course his teachings are not to be taken on a literal sense.

Catapharact
04-09-10, 20:58
In my opinion a handsome angelic creature would be much more likely to lure away one of God's flock than some demon.


Who says the devil hasn't been depicted as such? The biblical origins of satan can be traced back to the mesapotamian demon Lilith and she definately was no slouch when it cames to physical appeal. Over time though, evil had to be shown for it true nature and thus the fiery horned demonic form was used to depict Satan.

BTW: Lucifer and Satan are two different beings. Don't confuse them.

LaraLuvrrr
04-09-10, 23:30
Who says the devil hasn't been depicted as such? The biblical origins of satan can be traced back to the mesapotamian demon Lilith and she definately was no slouch when it cames to physical appeal. Over time though, evil had to be shown for it true nature and thus the fiery horned demonic form was used to depict Satan.

BTW: Lucifer and Satan are two different beings. Don't confuse them.

Lilith was a demon. Satan to me was constructed out of the horned God of the pagans which at the time the church was trying so hard to convert.

Super Badnik
04-09-10, 23:46
Well there is an obvious answer. Assuming he exists nobody has seen the Devil and thats assuming he has a physical appearance and the Devil represents evil to us, and a manifestation of evil isn't going to be something beautiful. So it makes perfect sense that the Devil is always depicted by humans as being something ugly and scary.

scoopy_loopy
05-09-10, 02:09
BTW: Lucifer and Satan are two different beings. Don't confuse them.

Sauce, kthx.

Draco
05-09-10, 03:01
Well there is an obvious answer. Assuming he exists nobody has seen the Devil and thats assuming he has a physical appearance and the Devil represents evil to us, and a manifestation of evil isn't going to be something beautiful. So it makes perfect sense that the Devil is always depicted by humans as being something ugly and scary.

Evil is an artificial concept.

cbragg09
05-09-10, 03:08
I kind of agree, although maybe not depict the devil with white clothes and a halo but rather a sexy man or woman that everybody would desire with a personality to boot but evil intentions

Dustie
05-09-10, 10:15
I created the thread not because I am facing my own demons, but because the history channel had a documentary on about witches and it developed in my mind from there.

Personally i've never thought of the Christ-God as ever being "involved" in the lives of everyday people. He gave man free will. The free choice for people to do as they wished then Jesus and Mohammad spoke about how to treat each other, but I interpret their words as how humans should agree to treat each other not necessarily as some divine commandment.

If you consider the image of demons they look very predatorial. Like they could physically devour us or inflict some sort of bodily harm. However if you consider the cruelest people in the world they were the ones that seemed ordinary. That they possessed no extreme characteristics other than their intentions and motivations.

I'm sure there are all kinds of metaphors for why demons and the devil are depicted in that manner, but if you consider all the greatest sins of the world it'd be more likely to "corrupt" others with someone who is attractive.

In the middle ages i think if someone saw a demon as it was depicted they'd die of a heart attack rather than submitting willingly or seeking out such a creature.

If you really want to know, then I guess you'd have to track down some resources on art and depiction of figures like God, Satan, Devil, etc.

I guess everything we consider evil or harmful, we intuitively expect to be something one easily has a negative reaction to. Hence the portrayal as horrific creatures, for example.