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tlr online
18-10-10, 15:34
Good afternoon.

I've just returned from spending an hour with Sussex Police's 'High Tech Crimes Unit' to submit and catalogue evidence from two recent attacks on our forum.

On two separate occasions during the past two weeks, a small group of former members have launched co-coordinated attacks on our forum, each time subjecting members as young as 13 to obscene material. The second attack (this past weekend) was launched using two established accounts with a full two years worth of IP history, thus making identifying those responsible incredibly easy.

Very rarely do I involve the police over incidents which happen on our forum, and ever rarer do I make any public statements about it. The exception this time serves as notice to anyone unsure of where my boundaries lay.

If you want to peddle filth on the Internet and are stupid enough to chose a forum populated by members as young as 13, your actions and all evidence will be reported to the police.

I hope I have made myself very clear.

Spong
18-10-10, 15:36
Good man Justin :tmb:
Your by-the-book attitude on the matter is spot on.

dizzydoil
18-10-10, 15:37
Beautiful. I'm glad you're doing the right thing Mr Penguin! :tmb: /is proud

Liara
18-10-10, 15:38
If I can ask, what happens to the spammers? Do they get fined by the police or something?

silviu_raider
18-10-10, 15:38
Beautiful. I'm glad you're doing the right thing Mr Penguin! :tmb: /is proud
+ 1! :tmb:

lara c. fan
18-10-10, 15:41
So, wait, what's going to happen to them? Get arrested? Some sort of record?

Nerd For Life
18-10-10, 15:41
So, wait, what's going to happen to them? Get arrested?

I pose the same question.

Catapharact
18-10-10, 15:42
Justin, you have just earned my respect for doing this. Thankyou for bringing the hammer down on these numbskulls. They deserve what's comming to them and more!

EDIT:

If I can ask, what happens to the spammers? Do they get fined by the police or something?

That and more. The people who were targeted by the attacks can launch their own individual complaints and file for civil litigation against these antagonists. In short, the people involved in these spam wars will be paying for damages for a veryyyy long time.

bloodstormaoa
18-10-10, 15:47
I really don't think you should be exacerbating all this drama tbh, either IRL or on here. I think it's somewhat irresponsible. Even the thread title "..And now for today's feature presentation...", like you're putting on a show or something. If it's to be dealt with, shouldn't it be done so in a quiet, subtle, effective manner?



Just my two cents on the whole thing.

lararoxs
18-10-10, 15:49
It's about time it was taken further. Well done Justin. :)

matrix54
18-10-10, 15:50
I have never seen you swing the BAN-HAMMUH with so much force before! And I loved it! :mis:

they deserve it. What they did was so uncalled for!

Encore
18-10-10, 15:56
Exposing people to porn? On the INTERNET??? Outrageous! Throw them all in jail!






...wait, I have a better idea: this forum needs to grow up and grow a pair already.

I was pretty happy with the policy about deleting spam, now this is ridiculous and throws me off completely.

matrix54
18-10-10, 15:59
it was a bit more than porn. There were a few personal attacks. Of course, they wee joking, but anyone who has been bullied can tell you it isn't the same on the side of being attacked. Not saying anyone took it to heart, but still, they did wrong.

Ada the Mental
18-10-10, 15:59
Overreaction much?

Catapharact
18-10-10, 16:00
...wait, I have a better idea: this forum needs to grow up and grow a pair already.

I wonder how receptive you will be to this idea had the attacks been aimed at you instead? I also find it ironic that you; The person who actually wanted a more stable forum environment; aren't too keen on the idea of taking serious actions against outright idiots.

Dark Lugia 2
18-10-10, 16:00
I never knew it could be that serious! Thanks for saying what can and will happen if anyone tries it again. :tmb:

EmeraldFields
18-10-10, 16:04
Wasn't this tried once before with Charlie, but nothing happened to him. :confused:

Liara
18-10-10, 16:05
If it's to be dealt with, shouldn't it be done so in a quiet, subtle, effective manner?
It's probably out in the open like this so it serves as a warning to anyone else plotting something similar.

I think it's great that it's taken care of, but I find it a bit odd that posting a few porn pictures on a forum can get you in trouble with the cops.

Forwen
18-10-10, 16:06
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/47/facepalmm.jpg

Police? You can't be serious. Lovin' the drama anyway.

lara c. fan
18-10-10, 16:07
I think it's great that it's taken care of, but I find it a bit odd that posting a few porn pictures on a forum can get you in trouble with the cops.

Agreed. What about 4chan?

Phlip
18-10-10, 16:08
Wow, cool. :cool:

Forwen
18-10-10, 16:09
Agreed. What about 4chan?

You're required to be 18 to view it.

Cochrane
18-10-10, 16:09
I’m fairly certain that we’ll never know, but I would be interested in how this all turns out. After all, if I heard right, at least some of the involved members aren’t british, so I’m not sure how willing the UK police is to actually get them to court for such an offense. It is probably not easy to get someone extradited from another country, or get another country to punish them. And even if there are any UK citizens involved, I do wonder whether the police care enough.

jaywalker
18-10-10, 16:10
Agreed. What about 4chan?

4Chan isnt a family `friendly` website tho.. TRF/TRC is..

lara c. fan
18-10-10, 16:11
You're required to be 18 to view it.

I disagree. I just went on there to check. There's a warning, sure. Just click "OK", however, and you're through. I'd hardly call that a requirement.

Encore
18-10-10, 16:12
I wonder how receptive you will be to this idea had the attacks been aimed at you instead? I also find it ironic that you; The person who actually wanted a more stable forum environment; aren't too keen on the idea of taking serious actions against outright idiots.

You think I've never been insulted and harassed over the internet before? And do you think I called the police? **** like that happens all the time. Deal with it.

Although it actually surprises me how you, the "internet tough guy", was so affected by this. ;);)

Those members were permanently banned. That should be more than enough for the forum to move on. Or are you suggesting that this is some kind of attempt at warning others not to **** with TRF? Because that... would be pathetic.

silviu_raider
18-10-10, 16:12
Calm down, guys.
They're minors, it's their first "act" and I think they'll only get a warning and, maybe, a fine.

I think this thread has been made to warn people of the possible consequences of their actions.

MangelinaJolie
18-10-10, 16:13
I disagree. I just went on there to check. There's a warning, sure. Just click "OK", however, and you're through. I'd hardly call that a requirement.

There are simple "warnings" on most adult sites too. Disagree all you want to. You are required legally to be of that age to look at the site. If you aren't, then if you get caught, it's on you.

jaywalker
18-10-10, 16:13
I disagree. I just went on there to check. There's a warning, sure. Just click "OK", however, and you're through. I'd hardly call that a requirement.

yeh but when its a site that attracts a younger age group it has a responsibility to ensure their protection etc..

bloodstormaoa
18-10-10, 16:13
It's probably out in the open like this so it serves as a warning to anyone else plotting something similar.

I understand that reasoning. I do. I just feel as though this is all a little too "showy" and is extending the length of time that this situation will be talked about, when we should just move on. I can hear the drama llama's at the door already, know what I mean?

EmeraldFields
18-10-10, 16:13
I'd rather have my police go after real crimes instead of chasing after kids who post a couple offensive pictures on a forum.

Forwen
18-10-10, 16:13
I disagree. I just went on there to check. There's a warning, sure. Just click "OK", however, and you're through. I'd hardly call that a requirement.

It's in the rules. That basically means if you're under 18 whatever trouble you get into is not the site's problem because you broke them.

Cochrane
18-10-10, 16:15
I disagree. I just went on there to check. There's a warning, sure. Just click "OK", however, and you're through. I'd hardly call that a requirement.

It is a requirement. Just not a strictly enforced one, but at least it is a clear sign that this is not a site parents should let their children visit. That is not the case for TRF.

digitizedboy
18-10-10, 16:15
I'd rather have my police go after real crimes instead of chasing after kids who post a couple offensive pictures on a forum.

more like a dozen.

anyway, I kinda agree... there's more serious crimes out there, especially on the net.

interstellardave
18-10-10, 16:17
I have a hard time thinking anything at all will be done through official channels, for a bunch of reasons that should be obvious to all... chief among them being that this can't be even considered "noteworthy" on the list of things those guys have to address on a daily basis. This topic itself is probably more effective... purely to scare those who are easily scared, and/or unsure.

Catapharact
18-10-10, 16:17
You think I've never been insulted and harassed over the internet before? And do you think I called the police? **** like that happens all the time. Deal with it.

Although it actually surprises me how you, the "internet tough guy", was so affected by this. ;);)

Those members were permanently banned. That should be more than enough for the forum to move on. Or are you suggesting that this is some kind of attempt at warning others not to **** with TRF? Because that... would be pathetic.

Same here... Numerous times... But given the number of attacks on this place, and how they have risen this year, the pattern tells me that the antagonists think they can do this again and again and get away with it. So yes, we are dealing with a case here that requires TRF to show that it doesn't takes c*** flinged at it very lightly.

The attacks on this board were just random events. They were organized and focused... Which tells me that there is a good chance that some other idiot will try this again. I don't think that idiot might wanna try it if he sees what happens to the previous idiot who did such moronic acts ;).

So yes... I fully back the "don't **** with TRF" idea ;).

MangelinaJolie
18-10-10, 16:18
I find it funny people complained about the spam and are now turning around and saying that a message being conveyed to combat it is too much.

Catapharact
18-10-10, 16:20
I find it funny people complained about the spam and are now turning around and saying that a message being conveyed to combat it is too much.

IKR? Blatent display of hypocrisy. How... drole.

Forwen
18-10-10, 16:21
So yes... I fully back the "don't **** with TRF" idea ;).

Yeah. Don't **** with TRF or we'll waste some British taxpayers' money. Bonus if you're not British.

Phlip
18-10-10, 16:22
I think to protect the forum, on the registration page it could say something like "This forum is like live TV - anything could happen". :vlol:


But seriously, it could give a warning saying that anything could happen and that "we're" not to be held responsible in the event of any adult content.

interstellardave
18-10-10, 16:22
Yeah. Don't **** with TRF or we'll waste some British taxpayers' money. Bonus if you're not British.

I refer you to my previous post... I wouldn't worry about your tax money!

Encore
18-10-10, 16:23
Same here... Numerous times... But given the number of attacks on this place, and how they have risen this year, the pattern tells me that the antagonists think they can do this again and again and get away with it. So yes, we are dealing with a case here that requires TRF to show that it doesn't takes c*** flinged at it very lightly.

The attacks on this board were just random events. They were organized and focused... Which tells me that there is a good chance that some other idiot will try this again. I don't think that idiot might wanna try it if he sees what happens to the previous idiot who did such moronic acts ;).

So yes... I fully back the "don't **** with TRF" idea ;).

Problem with that reasoning is that you're actually expecting the police to do something about this. Well, I'm not. If they had to take each and every one of these complaints to the last consequences, there would be no time to go after serious problems and serious offenders.

This is purely a show off statement to "impress" those that are currently using TRF. And it's fine if you think it's a good idea. But I don't.

I find it funny people complained about the spam and are now turning around and saying that a message being conveyed to combat it is too much.

Hope you're not talking about me.

If the staff at a given forum is unable to combat spam with the tools at their disposal and have to resort to the police, clearly they're doing a terrible job by themselves.

Catapharact
18-10-10, 16:24
Yeah. Don't **** with TRF or we'll waste some British taxpayers' money. Bonus if you're not British.

Actually if the case does goes through, I do want to see if I can file a civil litigation against the idiots in the U.S. who were part of the attacks last night.

Then again... I don't know if I want to punish their parents for raising such an irresponsible child (because lets face it... They antagonist wouldn't be able to pay for the damages ;).)

xXhayleyroxXx
18-10-10, 16:25
Its a bit silly the police would actually take direct action with this considering they won't even act upon noisey neighbours and theres many serious crimes out there. But maybe people won't be so stupid again.

Cochrane
18-10-10, 16:26
I think to protect the forum, on the registration page it could say something like "This forum is like live TV - anything could happen". :vlol:


But seriously, it could give a warning saying that anything could happen and that "we're" not to be held responsible in the event of any adult content.
But is that the kind of site that TRF wants to be? One that parents wonít let their children visit? As I understand Justin, no.

Yeah. Don't **** with TRF or we'll waste some British taxpayers' money. Bonus if you're not British.
Probably true, but would you please stop saying that out loud? There is a certain chance that some of the smaller children will actually believe that the police is coming after them if they do any of that. And whether that is true or not, I think it is best for life in this forum if the kiddies believe that it is true. :D

jaywalker
18-10-10, 16:27
If the staff at a given forum is unable to combat spam with the tools at their disposal and have to resort to the police, clearly they're doing a terrible job by themselves.

I dont think its the ability to handle the spam thats the issue here, the content and `intention` of the attacks was pretty clear. Removing offensive things is easy enough, but if the issues keep coming back by the same people then something else obviously needs to be done. Many people see the internet as a lawless, safe place to do whatever they please, but they forget that laws DO exist online, and as much as they laugh/scoff at them they are there to protect people.

Never thought i'd ever say this with an actual straight face but someone has to think about the children in this (as much as kids will complain that people are looking out for them), and its the site owners responsibility to do that, and he has..

MangelinaJolie
18-10-10, 16:29
Hope you're not talking about me.

If the staff at a given forum is unable to combat spam with the tools at their disposal and have to resort to the police, clearly they're doing a terrible job by themselves.

Not you or anybody in particular, no. It was just a broad statement.

I understand your reasoning, and I agree, but I doubt the underlying intention was to involve the police in a manhunt. :p I'm sure it was intended more to serve as a warning, hence the closing statements in the OP.

Phlip
18-10-10, 16:29
But is that the kind of site that TRF wants to be? One that parents wonít let their children visit? As I understand Justin, no.

Uhh, no. :confused: I'm not saying TRF should become a site where adult content happens, I'm saying there should just be a warning on the registration page saying that it COULD happen and that they're not to be held responsible if it does.

There, have you understood it better? Because it really shouldn't have been hard the first time 'round. :rolleyes: Sorry but **** me.

Thorir
18-10-10, 16:31
I hope the Police will prioritize catching real criminals instead of people spamming on the internet. ;)

Mad Tony
18-10-10, 16:39
Woah, seems like I missed quite a storm (again). What exactly happened?

Mokono
18-10-10, 16:39
There, have you understood it better? Because it really shouldn't have been hard the first time 'round. :rolleyes: Sorry but **** me.

Time to test out our new moderators by reporting these bits that i consider offensive.

PS: Don't blame others for the lack of clarity you have when you type.

TRfan23
18-10-10, 16:39
Whilst I am aware the police need to hunt down criminals doing crimes outside the net, then to hunt down a load of spammers.
You have to realize that Justin pays for the forum's software monthly afaik. Spamming it just makes it lag and abuses the use of the service, why would Justin want to pay for that? The spammers should pay!

tbh I'm actually glad I've missed all of these recent spam attacks.

lara c. fan
18-10-10, 16:42
Never thought i'd ever say this with an actual straight face but someone has to think about the children in this (as much as kids will complain that people are looking out for them), and its the site owners responsibility to do that, and he has..

This is probably off topic, and I'm about to do what you said kids would, and I'm being predictable, and yada yada yada...
But, I would like to see a bit more freedom and acknowledgement towards kids. People, not predominantly on here, though, tend to ignore those they deem immature, which is probably half the teenagers on this earth currently, even when they have perfectly helpful and valid opinions. And I must say, it gets a little cloying having someone watching over you half the time, just based on age and such. There's no perfect age where maturity comes in, which I think is proven often enough. There's way too much of a stereotype put on kids, I think. And too many barriers.

I realize this probably isn't the place to put my world views, and that most of my points will be argued against to the point where I just give up, but you happened to bring the subject up... :p

ShadyCroft
18-10-10, 16:43
I sort of agree with Encore, or share the same opinion as she does. :confused: I'm not saying I do not care for the younger members or the attacks, but I never thought it could get that serious, even a little bit exaggeration...I mean, the police ?
I understand what Jason said about the internet also having its rules, and I do agree. But I see a big difference between making fake accounts on eBay and steal money or whatever that could cause serious tangible problems, or make fake accounts to hurt others in real life too, and staring threads about an individual on a forum that can easily be deleted and for the member to be banned.

I just dont know. :confused: Its just a little too serious for its scope. If hackers were attempting to get into the forums servers to get information, then I definitely think an action with the same scope should be taken.

hmm, but I guess its for the future ? Anyway, you're the man, Justin, and you have much broader experience than I do, so I trust you'll make good actions. :)

tlr online
18-10-10, 16:43
Some people seem to overlook the fact that this is a family-friendly forum. I have a duty of care to the parents who are angry at me because their son or daughter has opened a benign thread and been greeted by porn.

This is Tomb Raider Forums. Not 4-chan.

Encore
18-10-10, 16:43
I dont think its the ability to handle the spam thats the issue here, the content and `intention` of the attacks was pretty clear. Removing offensive things is easy enough, but if the issues keep coming back by the same people then something else obviously needs to be done. Many people see the internet as a lawless, safe place to do whatever they please, but they forget that laws DO exist online, and as much as they laugh/scoff at them they are there to protect people.

Never thought i'd ever say this with an actual straight face but someone has to think about the children in this (as much as kids will complain that people are looking out for them), and its the site owners responsibility to do that, and he has..

I understand that, and it's exactly what frustrates me in this whole thing - to see this forum treated like a kindergarten. It really puts things in perspective. I thought the forum was perfectly capable of dealing with childish attacks with maturity, but obviously not.

xXhayleyroxXx
18-10-10, 16:44
This is probably off topic, and I'm about to do what you said kids would, and I'm being predictable, and yada yada yada...
But, I would like to see a bit more freedom and acknowledgement towards kids. People, not predominantly on here, though, tend to ignore those they deem immature, which is probably half the teenagers on this earth currently, even when they have perfectly helpful on valid opinions. And I must say, it gets a little cloying having someone watching over you half the time, just based on age and such. There's no perfect age where maturity comes in, which I think is proven often enough. There's way too much of a stereotype put on kids, I think. And too many barriers.

I realize this probably isn't the place to put my world views, and that most of my points will be argued against to the point where I just give up, but you happened to bring the subject up... :p

Thats a fair point actually.

Forwen
18-10-10, 16:47
I refer you to my previous post... I wouldn't worry about your tax money!

But tlr online says he's already filed it with the police, meaning tax money has already been spent. It just boggles the mind that someone would attempt to involve police over some T's and C's broken on an internet forum (one of... how many millions?), when so many other cases, cases that actually have some influence on human lives out there, go unaddressed.

I suspect tlr doesn't expect any action to be taken, it's just a stunt validating this thread. And if action is taken then I'll just have no words for the amount of fail inherent in prosecuting someone over posting internet pr0n.

The taxpayer comment was about the fact that non-British perpetrators have a double win here, they're outside of British jurisdiction and they can point out it's not their money involved :p I know it's symbolic.

Cochrane
18-10-10, 16:47
Uhh, no. :confused: I'm not saying TRF should become a site where adult content happens, I'm saying there should just be a warning on the registration page saying that it COULD happen and that they're not to be held responsible if it does.

There, have you understood it better? Because it really shouldn't have been hard the first time 'round. :rolleyes: Sorry but **** me.

No, I understood you, I guess I should have phrased mine better. If TRF wants to be a family-friendly forum, then certain guarantees have to be made. One of them is that such content wonít be posted, and if it is posted, itíll be deleted quickly and the ones who did it will be in trouble. While Justin is not responsible for anything being posted here in the first place, he is responsible for anything that is allowed to stay up long enough to become a problem.

Putting up such a disclaimer would be like an airline saying "We try our best not to crash, but it can happen and we donít take any responsibility for it." That would not be my first choice for travels.

moodydog
18-10-10, 16:48
i dont quite know what to say to this...

Yes, posting porn on this website is wrong... but after all, it is an open website... the words 'enter this website at your own risk' springs to mind. Not saying at all that its right to target people and bully them online, but I do believe that public-ally opening a case and informing the police about it is quite a dramatic root. (well suppose it gets the message across)

ShadyCroft
18-10-10, 16:50
aha! I definitely understand your point of view Justin. Posting porn is wrong of course, but then again, the internet is so easy, chances of a kid to come across porn arent so low, but I understand what you said that its a 'duty'.

Hmm, I live in a very different environment here. If I tell you about some of the stuff here, you'd be baffled.

Ada the Mental
18-10-10, 16:54
Never thought i'd ever say this with an actual straight face but someone has to think about the children in this (as much as kids will complain that people are looking out for them), and its the site owners responsibility to do that, and he has..

No, if parents are so concerned about protecting their little angels' innocent eyes from the world it's their job to regulate their internet access, not the site owners'.

Yeah, okay, this is supposed to be pg-13 forum, but 13 is not even that young.

bloodstormaoa
18-10-10, 16:57
http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/think_of_the_children_186.jpg

Phlip
18-10-10, 17:00
Putting up such a disclaimer would be like an airline saying "We try our best not to crash, but it can happen and we donít take any responsibility for it." That would not be my first choice for travels.

It's not like that airline would specifically try and crash, it's just saying "If this does happen to be one of those rare flights that do crash, it's not our fault, just so you know." I mean it's stating the obvious, but covering them.

TRfan23
18-10-10, 17:06
Personally I wouldn't mind going up to parents teaching them how to administrate a router and it's settings. Providing they have a Netgear router and their children aren't IT Geeks, they can just filter out words :) Not the best firewall but it's useful for children.

Dennis's Mom
18-10-10, 17:07
Problem with that reasoning is that you're actually expecting the police to do something about this. Well, I'm not. If they had to take each and every one of these complaints to the last consequences, there would be no time to go after serious problems and serious offenders.

This is purely a show off statement to "impress" those that are currently using TRF. And it's fine if you think it's a good idea. But I don't.

Will the police do anything about it after the first complaint? Possibly not. But as I learned in my professional life, things stack up. Reporting someone for fraud for $400 in Pell Grant money may seem like a waste of time, but what you'll find out is the OIG is keeping files, and sooner or later, Mr. $400 at one school is Mr. $10,000 at six.

To refer to what happened as "spam" is wrong. It wasn't "spam." Spam is impersonal, essentially a shotgun approach to marketing.

The forum wasn't spammed, it was vandalized. IMO, there is a difference.

Evan C.
18-10-10, 17:07
It's what you must do Justin,very well.

NRO.
18-10-10, 17:11
I'm glad that you're taking matters up with the police. There's no need for those 4channers here.

Catapharact
18-10-10, 17:12
The forum wasn't spammed, it was vandalized. IMO, there is a difference.

...

DM, you should work for a PR department :D. Me likes your style.

ajrich17901
18-10-10, 17:13
Glad to see you finally stepped up and took it further Justin. I for one hope they get everything thats coming to them. Pretty pathetic when ya have no life so ya gotta put that filth on here.

Mokono
18-10-10, 17:14
Some people seem to overlook the fact that this is a family-friendly forum.

But is Tomb Raider a family-friendly game in the same way Wii games are? I think that being a "thanksgiving" dinner table isn't the main focus of these forum. Sure, you can make it be it's goal, because you're the person in charge, but don't expect everything to work out that wat, because the few children browsing this place aren't like Spyri's Heidi, but even if one happened to be like that, i don't think parents would allow "mean" intenet access to such children at all.

I have a duty of care to the parents who are angry at me because their son or daughter has opened a benign thread and been greeted by porn.

I think we have the right to know the antecedents of such situation, because i don't think that you'd fear this possible scenario if it wasn't because it already happened before. But whoever gave you a reprimand for that must be a very unaware person internet-wise speaking, because there're always gonna be unpredictable things that scape your control.

Until the days of the attacks everyone used to think that all the necessary precautions were taken, but this wasn't true. Today you're making a high-flown statement about law enforcing (which isn't new either) and if the attacks repeat, what would you: tighten more the rope or fix the knots and tangles first? The outcome, so far, is pretty much the accustomed flattery this forums understands for obedience and good behaviour.

This is Tomb Raider Forums. Not 4-chan.

Interesting mention, because i'm sure that we could find more underages there than in Tomb Raider Forums General Chat.

The forum wasn't spammed, it was vandalized. IMO, there is a difference.

Still, and according to your fraud analogy, in order for this statement to have some serious weight, the vandal must've been the same person several times. In reality, it makes no difference whether it was a random spammer or several different vandals.

jjbennett
18-10-10, 17:24
4Chan isnt a family `friendly` website tho.. TRF/TRC is..
Exactly. When you sign up for this forum the conditions state that you must be over 13 i believe and then you agree to the FORUMS terms and conditions. If people can't understand that then they are either plain stupid or asking to be banned. If you want to look at porn it IS dead easy on the internet BUT this site doesn't want that. Simple to me.

I'm glad that you're taking matters up with the police. There's no need for those 4channers here.
I use 4chan, you don't see me posting porn.

Laralissa
18-10-10, 17:39
I have to agree, it's nice to know where the taxes are going.

Encore
18-10-10, 17:40
If you want to look at porn it IS dead easy on the internet BUT this site doesn't want that. Simple to me.


Yes it is simple.

No one here is saying that porn should be allowed.

But it should be enough to delete that content and ban the responsible members.

Will the police do anything about it after the first complaint? Possibly not. But as I learned in my professional life, things stack up. Reporting someone for fraud for $400 in Pell Grant money may seem like a waste of time, but what you'll find out is the OIG is keeping files, and sooner or later, Mr. $400 at one school is Mr. $10,000 at six.

To refer to what happened as "spam" is wrong. It wasn't "spam." Spam is impersonal, essentially a shotgun approach to marketing.

The forum wasn't spammed, it was vandalized. IMO, there is a difference.

You really think that it's that serious? Because I can't imagine how anyone would have felt dramatically offended by any of that. The porn content was actually pretty tame compared to what any 13 year old can find on Google Images, and the personal attacks were just hilarious. They've been deleted. Period. How is it so hard to just move on?

People should start asking themselves why other members have gone out of their way to make anti-TRF forums. Some of the actions and decisions here are a real joke, making it an easy target for trolling.

Catapharact
18-10-10, 17:42
People should start asking themselves why other members have gone out of their way to make anti-TRF forums.

Interesting. So not only will some of these numbskulls going to face charges for vandalism but character defamation as well :D.

Oh this is just too delicious.

lara c. fan
18-10-10, 17:47
Interesting. So not only are some of these numbskulls going to face charges for vandalism but character defamation as well :D.

Oh this is just too delicious.

Character defamation? In what way?

Encore
18-10-10, 17:49
Interesting. So not only will some of these numbskulls going to face charges for vandalism but character defamation as well :D.

Oh this is just too delicious.

So says the art thief.

Alpharaider47
18-10-10, 17:52
I mentioned this in another thread, but I think we should seriously pay attention to why people are resorting to this sort of action. It's probably easier and cheaper than trying to punish people, and you might end up making some real, beneficial changes that prevent other people from following suit and go a long way in improving forum life... Just my two cents worth...

bloodstormaoa
18-10-10, 17:53
So says the art thief.

Exactly. :confused:

I think bull**** like Catapharact's, should be considered spam in the same way that the spam attacks the other night were.

Catapharact
18-10-10, 17:54
So says the art thief.

And if the person in question wants to bring it up in court, I will definately address the problem in question ;). And I assure you... I will win. Worry about the spammers... Oh sorry... VANDALS involved in the attacks.

EDIT:

I mentioned this in another thread, but I think we should seriously pay attention to why people are resorting to this sort of action. It's probably easier and cheaper than trying to punish people, and you might end up making some real, beneficial changes that prevent other people from following suit and go a long way in improving forum life... Just my two cents worth...

No it actually sends a message to others that if you spam a forum up and get perma-banned, people will actually listen to your complaints. I am sorry but I do not think that is the sort of message we should be sending... Vandals should be punished; Not listened to or coddled. This is one of those situations where you have to put your foot down.

lara c. fan
18-10-10, 17:55
And if the person in question wants to bring it up in court, I will definately address the problem in question ;). And I assure you... I will win. Worry about the spammers... Oh sorry... VANDALS involved in the attacks.

How would you win, exactly? I'm curious.

TRfan23
18-10-10, 17:57
I mentioned this in another thread, but I think we should seriously pay attention to why people are resorting to this sort of action. It's probably easier and cheaper than trying to punish people, and you might end up making some real, beneficial changes that prevent other people from following suit and go a long way in improving forum life... Just my two cents worth...

Well I'd imagine it's because you know many children muck around and think it's 'fun' to provoke other people, and think the Internet is all about doing what you want. I can easily imagine them laughing their heads off when doing it...
Though they certainly won't be now...

NRO.
18-10-10, 17:57
What the hell is going on?

Somehow people manage to turn everything into a hate machine.

SkyPuppy
18-10-10, 17:58
What the hell is going on?

Somehow people amangae to turn everything into a hate machine.

that's TRF for you.

Catapharact
18-10-10, 18:00
Well I'd imagine it's because you know many children muck around and think it's 'fun' to provoke other people, and think the Internet is all about doing what you want. I can easily imagine them laughing their heads off when doing it...
Though they certainly won't be now...

Exactly.

Alpharaider47
18-10-10, 18:01
No it actually sends a message to others that if you spam a forum up and get perma-banned, people will actually listen to your complaints. I am sorry but I do not think that is the sort of message we should be sending... Vandals should be punished; Not listened to or coddled. This is one of those situations where you have to put your foot down.

I think you can be both stern and take into account reasonable issues. So if someone made a spam attack or whatever action they take due to a serious, legitimate forum issue, we should ignore said issue on the principle that fixing a problem is sending the wrong message?

Well I'd imagine it's because you know many children muck around and think it's 'fun' to provoke other people, and think the Internet is all about doing what you want. I can easily imagine them laughing their heads off when doing it...
Though they certainly won't be now...
True, but I was referring more to when someone has a legitimate problem with something about the forum. If we never ask or look into we'll never know.

Catapharact
18-10-10, 18:04
I think you can be both stern and take into account reasonable issues. So if someone made a spam attack or whatever action they take due to a serious, legitimate forum issue, we should ignore said issue on the principle that fixing a problem is sending the wrong message?

IMO you do both. While its good to listen to the general TRF populus and hear their opinions and feedback on different matters, you cannnot allow events that happened last night go out without strong concequences. We have had not one but FOUR such events happen in the course of this year alone and the interesting thing about it all is that the latest one was obviously an organized effort at vandalizing this place.

Unacceptable IMO.

ozzman
18-10-10, 18:05
i hate spam, glad you figured all this out,

lara c. fan
18-10-10, 18:07
How would you win, exactly? I'm curious.

You seem to ignore my question, Cat.

Alpharaider47
18-10-10, 18:08
IMO you do both. While its good to listen to the general TRF populus and hear their opinions and feedback on different matters, you cannnot allow events that happened last night go out without strong concequences. We have had not one but FOUR such events happen in the course of this year alone and the interesting thing about it all is that the latest one was obviously an organized effort at vandalizing this place.

Unacceptable IMO.

Certainly not, what I was suggesting is that you look and see if there was a legitimate reason that caused these people to choose that course of action and from there you go about solving it. At the same time you don't let those people off and you take what action against them you need to. I don't think that's unreasonable. At the very least provide an outlet for people to voice their concerns without fear of reprimand so that they don't have to resort to something stupid as a means of getting their message across. That's something that I think we're slowly working towards.

Catapharact
18-10-10, 18:09
You seem to ignore my question, Cat.

It does not concern you nor does it concern this forum. The matter in question doesn not involve anyone on this forum personally. But all I will say is that the mods know why and I know why ;). That is all.

EDIT:

Certainly not, what I was suggesting is that you look and see if there was a legitimate reason that caused these people to choose that course of action and from there you go about solving it. At the same time you don't let those people off and you take what action against them you need to. I don't think that's unreasonable. At the very least provide an outlet for people to voice their concerns without fear of reprimand so that they don't have to resort to something stupid as a means of getting their message across. That's something that I think we're slowly working towards.

They have been given plenty of outlets to let their frustrations out. MGC is one of them. Yet some of the people who are now complaining that they lack an outlet to voice their concerns have left MGC on their own. Furthermore, you have the PM system and there have been so many threads on this forum that have been created just so you can voice your concern about issues on this forum.

Yet some people just want to be idiots for NO reason whatsoever. Having boring lives does that to people ;).

snork
18-10-10, 18:11
Good afternoon....

right. :)
What else were you gonna (expected to) do.

-----------------
boo!

sigh.

I really feel like first time ever posting a facealm gif now.

-----------------


That and more. The people who were targeted by the attacks can launch their own individual complaints and file for civil litigation against these antagonists. In short, the people involved in these spam wars will be paying for damages for a veryyyy long time.

Calm down.
Do you really want to suggest that whoever was harassed this time (I wasn't here, seen nothing) should let that crap continue to be in their lives ?
Waste time, attention and money into (most probably fruitless) efforts to get some revenge or punishment ?
I don't think so.

Justin taking measures to me is appropriate, but that should be it ?

Catapharact
18-10-10, 18:15
Calm down.
Do you really want to suggest that whoever was harassed this time (I wasn't here, seen nothing) should let that crap continue to be in their lives ?
Waste time, attention and money into (most probably fruitless) efforts to get some revenge or punishment ?
I don't think so.

Justin taking measures to me is appropriate, but that should be it ?

I personally think that its up to the individual. I am just saying that if they do want to strengthen the case against these antagonists, it would be good of them to jump in and back up Justin on this.

And while we are at it, why not go for a civil litigation ;).

Encore
18-10-10, 18:18
They have been given plenty of outlets to let their frustrations out. MGC is one of them. Yet some of the people who are now complaining that they lack an outlet to voice their concerns have left MGC on their own. Furthermore, you have the PM system and there have been so many threads on this forum that have been created just so you can voice your concern about issues on this forum.

1. MGC is an outlet... how, exactly? I seem to recall that whenever people complained about the rest of the forum over there, they were politely told to shut up because it was "rude" to talk about it in a place where many members can't reply.

2. How do you know if the members in question haven't posted PMs to mods about their concerns? How do you know if part of the frustration doesn't come precisely because that achieves nothing? Trolling warrants you far more attention (albeit not exactly a productive one). And BTW I normally use the "PM a mod" system.

3. A lot of posts were deleted in those threads, and they were often "temporarily closed" whenever things got heated. Hardly what I would call open for debate.

lara c. fan
18-10-10, 18:21
I personally think that its up to the individual. I am just saying that if they do want to strengthen the case against these antagonists, it would be good of them to jump in and back up Justin on this.

And while we are at it, why not go for a civil litigation ;).
Ugh, forget it.

Alpharaider47
18-10-10, 18:23
They have been given plenty of outlets to let their frustrations out. MGC is one of them. Yet some of the people who are now complaining that they lack an outlet to voice their concerns have left MGC on their own. Furthermore, you have the PM system and there have been so many threads on this forum that have been created just so you can voice your concern about issues on this forum.

Yet some people just want to be idiots for NO reason whatsoever. Having boring lives does that to people ;).

Yes, but not everyone has access to MGC, and perhaps it would be easier if there was a single thread? I don't have a solution really, just throwing an idea out there.

jackali
18-10-10, 18:30
As much as I don't really feel like I should be defending Catapharact here, he shouldn't need defending in this thread. The thread is about the recent attacks. I don't see how attacking him for voicing his opinion on the topic (when the attacks against him aren't even refuting or disagreeing with his points, but rather are personal attacks) have anything to do with this. Sorry if I'm butting in or whatever... but I don't go on these forums to see people attacking people at any opportunity which crops up.

Catapharact
18-10-10, 18:31
1. MGC is an outlet... how, exactly? I seem to recall that whenever people complained about the rest of the forum over there, they were politely told to shut up because it was "rude" to talk about it in a place where many members can't reply.

They were ASKED not to do it and it has been frowned upon but surely even you can see that its stupid to bring up an opinion about a person without them being around to defend themselves. Here is my issue with all of this; If you SERIOUSLY have a problem with the said individual, just PM them and take the argument there... Or do what I do; Give em a one way trip to the ignore list ;).

Sure things get heated around here from time to time and I have confronted people on their actions quite a few times (and have paid for it) but even I know that there are limits and basic curtosy.

For you personally, I certainly will burn you to a crisp in an open and fair debate but I will respect you as a person to not talk about your pictures, or talk about your obvious self-image issues or involve your loved ones in the fight.


2. How do you know if the members in question haven't posted PMs to mods about their concerns? How do you know if part of the frustration doesn't come precisely because that achieves nothing? Trolling warrants you far more attention (albeit not exactly a productive one). And BTW I normally use the "PM a mod" system.

All this trolling does nothing but forces this forum to get even more stricter with its rules. That is all what it will achieve. All you will get is people landing in jail or paying fines for something they could have easily avoided if they just had the mental patience to either walk away from the forum quietly (like yours truly has done a few times) or use the required areas of communication to address the problem.

The attacks were neither hilarious nor productive.

3. A lot of posts were deleted in those threads, and they were often "temporarily closed" whenever things got heated. Hardly what I would call open for debate.

MOST of them were temprarily closed. SOME of them got closed after things got out of hand. Temporarily closing the thread allows people to cool off a bit and come back to the argument with new ideas (or more ammunition if you will ;).) I say its a perfectly sound system.

trXD
18-10-10, 18:33
Fair enough, they shouldn't have done what they did.

But...


That and more. The people who were targeted by the attacks can launch their own individual complaints and file for civil litigation against these antagonists. In short, the people involved in these spam wars will be paying for damages for a veryyyy long time.

Surely that's a bit much for what they did? Absolutely nobody got hurt and it annoyed the frig out of the mods but to actually pay damages over time?

Edit: don't expect people to take you seriously if you can't even come up with a way you could win this ridiculous trial.

MattTR
18-10-10, 18:38
Heck yes! Thank you Justin, hopefully the immature individuals behind these attacks will get what they deserve, and learn a lesson as well. :tmb:

:yah:

Don't mess with us fools, you hear that? :ohn:

Catapharact
18-10-10, 18:39
Surely that's a bit much for what they did? Absolutely nobody got hurt and it annoyed the frig out of the mods but to actually pay damages over time?

Edit: don't expect people to take you seriously if you can't even come up with a way you could win this ridiculous trial.

First off, I have to know if Justin makes the case against them or not to proceed on with any given details.

Second, you really do not know much about legal proceedings do you... Unless the official paperwork has not been filled out, the parties involved should not say anything.

Dennis's Mom
18-10-10, 18:43
Still, and according to your fraud analogy, in order for this statement to have some serious weight, the vandal must've been the same person several times. In reality, it makes no difference whether it was a random spammer or several different vandals.

I think it has been shown that it was the same person or group of people, and based on that information and past history, there's a reasonable chance of it happening again.

So you're right, at this point, random or not makes no difference. Next time, it will make a difference. A pattern will develop.

It's the same with stalking. You've got to document for a while before anyone will take it seriously. All Justin has done, IMO, has started the documentation process. I don't think he or anyone else is under any notion that doors are going to be beaten down over this.

You really think that it's that serious? Because I can't imagine how anyone would have felt dramatically offended by any of that. The porn content was actually pretty tame compared to what any 13 year old can find on Google Images, and the personal attacks were just hilarious. They've been deleted. Period. How is it so hard to just move on?

The issue isn't whether a 13 year old can find it somewhere on the internet, but whether they should find it here. It isn't for you or me to say to what extent someone should be offended by a pornographic image. We all have our own sensibilities and limits for offense. TRF has represented itself as a place certain content is out of bounds. It's a PG-13 environment. Members visit here with that expectation, and I can't fault the owner for taking those expectations seriously.

Moving on works both ways as well. If I break up with my boyfriend, it's very hard to move on if he insists on calling me at all hours of the morning. At some point he's got to accept we're done, and find a new relationship, hopefully one that makes him happier than I did.

Uzi master
18-10-10, 18:43
I suppose I missed a lot didn't I?

Just out of curiosity were these people familiar spammers? Amanda Lepore and Dan the man come to mind...

trXD
18-10-10, 18:48
Personally I think anyone who presses charges for being insulted is a total low-life, there were no fabrications cat, they never said anything that wasn't true, you had your feelings hurt and you should because what you did is something to be ashamed of, now tell me why this warrants legal action from you.

Johnnay
18-10-10, 18:52
The forum wasn't spammed, it was vandalized. IMO, there is a difference.

It was both spammed and vandalized Lisa:)

Fair enough, they shouldn't have done what they did.

But...



Surely that's a bit much for what they did? Absolutely nobody got hurt and it annoyed the frig out of the mods but to actually pay damages over time?

Edit: don't expect people to take you seriously if you can't even come up with a way you could win this ridiculous trial.

I was depressed when Alex made me a thread for me. That pic he posted about Matt writing about me is one i really didnt wanna see or know about it, I couldn't cope for the rest of the day:(. So I was hurt too.

It's all over now anyway. I forgive Mattyboy:hug: I love him like a Brother to me and spam like what Alex did isn't gonna ruin our Brotherly Friendship at all:gki:

Anyways I'm happy Justin is taking action against those spammers. And I agree, this Forum isn't 4 chan at all.

trXD
18-10-10, 18:54
I was depressed when Alex made me a thread for me. That pic he posted about Matt writing about me is one i really didnt wanna see or know about it, I couldn't cope for the rest of the day:(. So I was hurt too.

It's all over now anyway. I forgive Mattyboy:hug: I love him like a Brother to me and spam like what Alex did isn't gonna ruin our Brotherly Friendship at all:gki:

Anyways I'm happy Justin is taking action against those spammers. And I agree, this Forum isn't 4 chan at all.

Sorry, it was a bit dumb of me to say nobody got hurt when people clearly did. I do respect Justin's decision to take legal action, but I don't agree with individual members milking it because of something so petty.

Love2Raid
18-10-10, 18:58
Good afternoon.

I've just returned from spending an hour with Sussex Police's 'High Tech Crimes Unit' to submit and catalogue evidence from two recent attacks on our forum.

On two separate occasions during the past two weeks, a small group of former members have launched co-coordinated attacks on our forum, each time subjecting members as young as 13 to obscene material. The second attack (this past weekend) was launched using two established accounts with a full two years worth of IP history, thus making identifying those responsible incredibly easy.

Very rarely do I involve the police over incidents which happen on our forum, and ever rarer do I make any public statements about it. The exception this time serves as notice to anyone unsure of where my boundaries lay.

If you want to peddle filth on the Internet and are stupid enough to chose a forum populated by members as young as 13, your actions and all evidence will be reported to the police.

I hope I have made myself very clear.
I think it's great that you have at least given a signal towards the offenders and any potential attackers. They'll probably think twice now before attempting something like this. :tmb:
(In case people missed it, the forum couldn't be accessed for a while, not sure how long.)

Concerning individual members who were insulted, I don't think they stand a chance. They were not threatened, only made fun of. As far as I know, this is not against the law in real life and neither online.

ultima espio
18-10-10, 19:05
If I'm allowed to ask, who were the members that got Insulted?

EscondeR
18-10-10, 19:07
Concerning individual members who were insulted, I don't think they stand a chance. They were not threatened, only made fun of. As far as I know, this is not against the law in real life and neither online.

It will depend on the nature of "fun" :-/ actually. If Mc'Crappers can be sued for hot coffee burns which were actually made by the client herself, why a spammer can't be sued for slander, derogatory imagery, etc of that kind?

Encore
18-10-10, 19:10
They were ASKED not to do it and it has been frowned upon but surely even you can see that its stupid to bring up an opinion about a person without them being around to defend themselves. Here is my issue with all of this; If you SERIOUSLY have a problem with the said individual, just PM them and take the argument there... Or do what I do; Give em a one way trip to the ignore list ;).

Sure things get heated around here from time to time and I have confronted people on their actions quite a few times (and have paid for it) but even I know that there are limits and basic curtosy.

For you personally, I certainly will burn you to a crisp in an open and fair debate but I will respect you as a person to not talk about your pictures, or talk about your obvious self-image issues or involve your loved ones in the fight.

You can't ignore a moderator. And I have talked about my issues with the mods.

And I'm right here if you really want to say whatever you want about me, my self-esteem issues and my loved ones. But you won't do that, will you? No, because you know saying something specific can get your ass banned. So you just stroll around spreading your generalized, bull**** insults, and no one does anything because we're just "misinterpreting" you.

I can understand all the points of view written in this thread except yours. You are one of the biggest trolls in this forum and you were banned for that before, yet here you sit telling people how to behave. Grow up already.

Love2Raid
18-10-10, 19:15
It will depend on the nature of "fun" :-/ actually. If Mc'Crappers can be sued for hot coffee burns which were actually made by the client herself, why a spammer can't be sued for slander, derogatory imagery, etc of that kind?
I don't think I have seen the contents of every thread, but I haven't seen anything that could be labeled as slander. Harassment perhaps.

peeves
18-10-10, 19:17
So this means whoever attacked this forum with inappropriate things will go to the booking detention center.

voltz
18-10-10, 19:17
Everyone needs to bare in mind that TRF allows access to groups of all ages, different ethnic groups, etc, etc. The act of posting pornographic images where it has access to minors counts as distributing adult marital in which we have "strict laws" against and can hold as a federal offense. While Justin is taking the necessary measures, we have to remember that federal laws are not meant to be broken under any circumstance.

When you cross the line, that's it. No amount of sympathy for your actions regardless of how everyone feels is going to give anyone a free pass.

MattTR
18-10-10, 19:19
I was depressed when Alex made me a thread for me. That pic he posted about Matt writing about me is one i really didnt wanna see or know about it, I couldn't cope for the rest of the day:(. So I was hurt too.

It's all over now anyway. I forgive Mattyboy:hug: I love him like a Brother to me and spam like what Alex did isn't gonna ruin our Brotherly Friendship at all:gki:

Anyways I'm happy Justin is taking action against those spammers. And I agree, this Forum isn't 4 chan at all.

Forget the past, Johnnay. You know I'll always be your friend and I'll always be here for you, if someone else is jealous or just annoyed by our friendship that's their problem. :tmb:

Whoever is reading this should know, I care deeply about Johnnay. He is one of my best friends and in no way, shape, or form should anyone ever try to ruin that for us. I was severely hurt by the lack of help both of us have gotten lately, and will not tolerate it anymore. I'm glad things are being taken care of, and legally! :D

SkyPuppy
18-10-10, 19:20
Forget the past, Johnnay. You know I'll always be your friend and I'll always be here for you, if someone else is jealous or just annoyed by our friendship that's their problem. :tmb:

Whoever is reading this should know, I care deeply about Johnnay. He is one of my best friends and in no way, shape, or form should anyone ever try to ruin that for us. I was severely hurt by the lack of hurt both of us have gotten lately, and will not tolerate it anymore. I'm glad things are being taken care of, and legally! :D

it's kind of funny how much you strive to make your point.

Mona Sax
18-10-10, 19:23
There's a very simple way to get our attention - just PM or e-mail us. While we cannot promise to implement all suggestions, we will consider and discuss them. We'll also answer any questions regarding forum policy.

It's always been that way. It's much less of a bang than insulting others and posting porn, granted, but it's the mature way to voice one's concerns and change a situation.

I understand that some believe those responsible did it because they saw no other way. If that were the case, surely they would've tried talking to us beforehand. I don't remember that ever happening.

MattTR
18-10-10, 19:26
it's kind of funny how much you strive to make your point.

I was trying to make a point, a very good one in fact. What do you mean? :confused:

Anubis_AF
18-10-10, 19:30
What's with all the hatred?

Eddie Haskell
18-10-10, 19:33
There's a very simple way to get our attention - just PM or e-mail us. While we cannot promise to implement all suggestions, we will consider and discuss them. We'll also answer any questions regarding forum policy.

It's always been that way. It's much less of a bang than insulting others and posting porn, granted, but it's the mature way to voice one's concerns and change a situation.

I understand that some believe those responsible did it because they saw no other way. If that were the case, surely they would've tried talking to us beforehand. I don't remember that ever happening.

No other way? What are they, 5 years old? Good riddance...

ajrich17901
18-10-10, 19:33
What's with all the hatred?

TRF's ...it knows drama :pi: lol

MattTR
18-10-10, 19:35
TRF's ...it knows drama :pi: lol

We know drama, but not all of us. :ton:

Johnnay
18-10-10, 19:35
it's kind of funny how much you strive to make your point.

What are you on about:confused:.

care to explain.. its not like hes really fighting for a piece of me:). we knew each other well anyway :)

God Horus
18-10-10, 19:35
I think what you have done is excellent and I hope that the forum does not face any more attacks in the future! :tmb:

Sgt BOMBULOUS
18-10-10, 19:35
What's with all the hatred?

It's an easy recipe... All you need is several angry people who all want to be right. BLAMMO!

ajrich17901
18-10-10, 19:36
We know drama, but not all of us. :ton:

Thank the reaper for that lmao

trXD
18-10-10, 19:45
No other way? What are they, 5 years old? Good riddance...

I agree, this was not a "I did it because I felt I had to" situation, they did it because they wanted to have cheap fun at the expense of others.

Encore
18-10-10, 19:52
There's a very simple way to get our attention - just PM or e-mail us. While we cannot promise to implement all suggestions, we will consider and discuss them. We'll also answer any questions regarding forum policy.

It's always been that way. It's much less of a bang than insulting others and posting porn, granted, but it's the mature way to voice one's concerns and change a situation.

I understand that some believe those responsible did it because they saw no other way. If that were the case, surely they would've tried talking to us beforehand. I don't remember that ever happening.

I think it's safe to say they simply couldn't be bothered and had more fun trolling. I'm not disputing that. Perhaps you are misinterpreting my stance here as defending the spam attacks. I can assure you, I'm not defending them. I'm just saying (or trying to say) two things:

One, I'm afraid that the way these people chose to act on it will discredit all other valid concerns that are present regarding the forum's moderation policies.

And two, the spam attacks were not serious and dramatic enough to warrant police intervention. I'm aware that this is a subjective opinion. I just chose to voice it.

Mona Sax
18-10-10, 19:55
And that's okay. There's absolutely no problem with voicing one's opinions in a polite and respectful way, and I don't think there ever will be.

I assure you that this has no effect on how we approach members' input. Nobody's going to pay for somebody else's mistakes.

JonnyT
18-10-10, 20:10
I'd say it was the appropriate choice of action ;) Not only did I see adult themed images the other night, but they were used to compare popular members on these forums and other images had faces of forum members used in them.

Killercowz
18-10-10, 20:29
There's a lot of tension and arguments going on in this thread.....




I'm just going to back away slowly..... 0_0

Catapharact
18-10-10, 20:29
You can't ignore a moderator. And I have talked about my issues with the mods..
^
Bull****. I have seen mods being taken out of their position of power if there was a LEGITIMATE concern brought to the attention of the admins. Clearly I trust the admins to do their job and they have proven to have done it in the past and I still trust em. Spamming the forum with personal attacks are the actions of a feeble mind.

And I'm right here if you really want to say whatever you want about me, my self-esteem issues and my loved ones. But you won't do that, will you? No, because you know saying something specific can get your ass banned. So you just stroll around spreading your generalized, bull**** insults, and no one does anything because we're just "misinterpreting" you.

I can understand all the points of view written in this thread except yours. You are one of the biggest trolls in this forum and you were banned for that before, yet here you sit telling people how to behave. Grow up already.

Well there is that ;), and offcourse I will not do it because of simple respect (twist it which ever way you want.) See, I argue fairly. There is just no contest in kicking a person when they are down. I am not an animal no matter how much you would like to see otherwise. Generalizations can be pointed out and debated with (heck I do it all the time and I still manage to turn the argument around ;)) if you have the right knowladge to back up your claims offcourse.

To let a forum effect you in such a way that you have to resort to not only insulting people on a personal level but to do so inorder to get gratification from such actions is just... immature, cowardly and obviously the actions of a total idiot.

Weak willed beings...

Mona Sax
18-10-10, 20:33
I think that's enough. Both of you, please take your personal quarrels to PMs.

touchthesky
18-10-10, 20:35
Omg.

Seriously? I mean...it's a forum :(

AmericanAssassin
18-10-10, 20:38
Seriously? I mean...it's a forum :(

For real. Stopping now will be like canceling one of my favorite shows. The Catapharact Show. *Dances and eats popcorn*

touchthesky
18-10-10, 20:44
Why are people taking it so seriously? Ever stop to think that perhaps the reason these "personal" attacks were made was because the attackers had been attacked in the past?

Just a thought, I wasn't even here when it went on but judging by the members that were banned I can assume who it was and they are all genuinely nice people, some of whom I've met IRL and I can't see them being as ghastly as they're apparently meant to have been unless there was some reason behind it.

Tommy123
18-10-10, 20:44
drrrammmmaaaaa.......

Chocola teapot
18-10-10, 21:05
The scale of this drama is... Unprecedented.

We all love a bit of Drama but people are overreacting dramatically.

When it boils down to it, It's just some random forum.

And I agree with every single one of Encore's posts. <3

KIKO
18-10-10, 21:57
The forum is meant for younger ages and I see how parents can be concerned about their kids looking at porn on family friendly websites. You might think it's an overreaction to call the Police but I believe this is probably not the first time that obscene stuff is posted here.

What's with all the drama guys?


Ai melheres, voces...voces cansam-me a beleza :pi:

Nefertiti_89
18-10-10, 22:10
Exposing people to porn? On the INTERNET??? Outrageous! Throw them all in jail!

...wait, I have a better idea: this forum needs to grow up and grow a pair already.

I was pretty happy with the policy about deleting spam, now this is ridiculous and throws me off completely.

I know right? I mean haven't they heard?

T-TA57L0kuc

I mean, yes this isn't a site dedicated to such things, and I'm definitely not saying it should have any such content on it at all, but we all remember what it was like to be a teenager.

No, if parents are so concerned about protecting their little angels' innocent eyes from the world it's their job to regulate their internet access, not the site owners'.

Yeah, okay, this is supposed to be pg-13 forum, but 13 is not even that young.

This exactly. Parent's don't want their kids looking at porn, they need to pay more attention to their internet activities. My parents used to have to log on and log off our internet, if they decided I'd been on long enough, then they logged out. Its as simple as that, password protect, mum and dad only have that password, they don't even need to know the ins and outs of privacy settings and firewalls.

Iím fairly certain that weíll never know, but I would be interested in how this all turns out. After all, if I heard right, at least some of the involved members arenít british, so Iím not sure how willing the UK police is to actually get them to court for such an offense. It is probably not easy to get someone extradited from another country, or get another country to punish them. And even if there are any UK citizens involved, I do wonder whether the police care enough.

Yep, cops have no jurisdiction outside their own area. If it were a government site take down, then maybe they would think about doing something, but its not.

I'd rather have my police go after real crimes instead of chasing after kids who post a couple offensive pictures on a forum.

This exactly. My great aunt was brutally beaten within an inch of her life in her own home with an crow bar, and the police were up front with us and said the likelihood of finding the guy was slim to none. The same guy had done this to 3 other elderly people in the area too, so if they can't afford the time to find and bring to justice serial violent offenders, I find it rather irresponsible to bother them with such trivial things as internet forum spam no matter what its nature.

Interesting. So not only will some of these numbskulls going to face charges for vandalism but character defamation as well :D.

Oh this is just too delicious.

So says the art thief.

OH SNAP! :vlol:


Anyway, its Justin's choice to press legal charges. I like to think he has a life outside this place, and bigger fish to fry, and that he wouldn't want to waste his money on legal counsel for punitive damages, but hey I might be wrong.

snork
18-10-10, 22:24
This exactly. My great aunt was brutally beaten within an inch of her life in her own home with an crow bar, and the police were up front with us and said the likelihood of finding the guy was slim to none. The same guy had done this to 3 other elderly people in the area too, so if they can't afford the time to find and bring to justice serial violent offenders, I find it rather irresponsible to bother them with such trivial things as internet forum spam no matter what its nature.
Ah, OK. So better noone ever again tries to charge anyone for anything lower than massmurder.

Damn, what a LAME argument.

Love2Raid
18-10-10, 22:38
I agree with snork here, you shouldn't think like that. Any crime should be reported to the police, no matter how small. You can assume that they will know which cases require priority.

Catracoth
18-10-10, 22:42
I'm still so baffled as to why all this happened - by people I never would expect to do such a thing. :confused:

:}hello friend
18-10-10, 22:46
What baffles me the most is why there has to be a falling out in every thread at least once.

Nefertiti_89
18-10-10, 22:57
Ah, OK. So better noone ever again tries to charge anyone for anything lower than massmurder.

Damn, what a LAME argument.

It wasn't an argument. It was my opinion which I am entitled to, as you are entitled to disagree with it. I was just trying to put things in perspective.

I agree with snork here, you shouldn't think like that. Any crime should be reported to the police, no matter how small. You can assume that they will know which cases require priority.

Yes, but one needs to question whether it is worth reporting to an authority that has no jurisdiction to do anything about it in the first place. It would have been more beneficial to contact the offender's county police, where at least they can actually pursue the offenders if they see fit.

robm_2007
18-10-10, 22:59
Calm down, guys.
They're minors, it's their first "act" and I think they'll only get a warning and, maybe, a fine.

I think this thread has been made to warn people of the possible consequences of their actions.

are you talking about the attackers? they are 19 and 18, according to thier profiles. while i must say that some of the random spam was really funny, i didnt really like some of the personal attacks, they seemed actually terrible. some of the other ones were just immature things that didnt seem to make any sense.
------------
the reason they did it is cuz they though they could get away with it, so they let the forum have everything at their disposal; cuz they were not pleased with the current state of TRF being unfun adn boring or whatever.

i was in my dorm when i saw some of the porn crap, i usually go on the computer in the computer lab in my college, and know that i would have have my computer access suspended or even taken away if one of the computer lab attendants or technicians saw that crap on my screen; thus resulting in my grades to suffer cuz almost all of my work is essays or typing stuff. (some of the tech ppl in here are Computer Nazis, if you know what I mean.)

Love2Raid
18-10-10, 23:02
Yes, but one needs to question whether it is worth reporting to an authority that has no jurisdiction to do anything about it in the first place. It would have been more beneficial to contact the offender's county police, where at least they can actually pursue the offenders if they see fit.
It seems indeed pointless if they can't do anything, but isn't it their job to contact their colleagues?

Nefertiti_89
18-10-10, 23:12
It seems indeed pointless if they can't do anything, but isn't it their job to contact their colleagues?

Not really, that's more up to federal organisations like the FBI, and international agencies like Interpol and it would definitely be irresponsible to take something like this to Interpol. Certainly Sussex could get onto Interpol, but I would question their priorities if they did.

Love2Raid
18-10-10, 23:19
Not really, that's more up to federal organisations like the FBI, and Interpol and it would definitely be irresponsible to take something like this to Interpol. Certainly Sussex could get onto Interpol, but I would question their priorities if they did.
Lol, I understand. So you can just ring the local police in another country? It seems strange to me.

freeze10108
18-10-10, 23:26
I honestly see no reason NOT to report this to the police and am behind Justin all the way on this one. Breaking a law is illegal for a reason, and even if you don't agree with the law, it's best to heed it. I'm sure that law enforcement actually DOES want to know when there are laws being broken; they can't monitor everything all the time.

Just off the top of my head, I can count three unlawful actions by the "spammers" from before: exposing minors to adult content, defamation of character (libel to be specific), and breach of contract (T&C). Now, two of these would likely have to go to civil court instead of criminal court, but they're illegal actions nonetheless.

Further, some people are saying that we shouldn't be trying to go after the offenders and should focus on making sure that the cause of this problem is fixed. I agree to an extent: we should be trying to fix the problem. However, the other party did something illegal, and we shouldn't let it slide just because there's a reason that they did it; all actions have motives.

Love2Raid
18-10-10, 23:31
^
Interesting. :)

I was wondering how they did this though. Pardon my ignorance, but couldn't they just get banned after the first few threads? Or do you need to log out first to 'activate' the ban? Or were they using many tabs perhaps and posting them all at the same time? Sorry, I'm confused. :confused:

Encore
18-10-10, 23:31
Further, some people are saying that we shouldn't be trying to go after the offenders and should focus on making sure that the cause of this problem is fixed. I agree to an extent: we should be trying to fix the problem. However, the other party did something illegal, and we shouldn't let it slide just because there's a reason that they did it; all actions have motives.

You make a fair point.

I don't agree with Justin's action but the forum is his, any legal problems are his responsibility, so of course he's allowed to do anything he wants.

I just (perhaps naively) wish we didn't need this circus show. It's exactly the type of thing that makes trolls and teenagers online think they're important.


I was wondering how they did this though. Pardon my ignorance, but couldn't they just get banned after the first few threads? Or do you need to log out first to 'activate' the ban? Or were they using many tabs perhaps and posting them all at the same time? Sorry, I'm confused. :confused:

The threads were being deleted but as they weren't banned for some time, they just kept making them. I don't know why they weren't immediately banned, probably because there was no super-mod around.

Catracoth
18-10-10, 23:34
I honestly see no reason NOT to report this to the police and am behind Justin all the way on this one. Breaking a law is illegal for a reason, and even if you don't agree with the law, it's best to heed it. I'm sure that law enforcement actually DOES want to know when there are laws being broken; they can't monitor everything all the time.

Just off the top of my head, I can count three unlawful actions by the "spammers" from before: exposing minors to adult content, defamation of character (libel to be specific), and breech of contract (T&C). Now, two of these would likely have to go to civil court instead of criminal court, but they're illegal actions nonetheless.

Further, some people are saying that we shouldn't be trying to go after the offenders and should focus on making sure that the cause of this problem is fixed. I agree to an extent: we should be trying to fix the problem. However, the other party did something illegal, and we shouldn't let it slide just because there's a reason that they did it; all actions have motives.

This post is so well said, I almost fell out of my chair. I couldn't agree any more with this. :tmb:

Love2Raid
18-10-10, 23:37
I just (perhaps naively) wish we didn't need this circus show. It's exactly the type of thing that makes trolls and teenagers online think they're important.



The threads were being deleted but as they weren't banned for some time, they just kept making them. I don't know why they weren't immediately banned, probably because there was no super-mod around.
Yeah, that's the downside. :/

Oh, I see. So only super-mods can ban members? Don't they trust the normal moderator's judgement? Or is it just a limitation of the forum software?

freeze10108
18-10-10, 23:52
I just (perhaps naively) wish we didn't need this circus show. It's exactly the type of thing that makes trolls and teenagers online think they're important.

I'm not entirely sure where I stand on this just yet, but I see where you're coming from. I think that the statement probably needed to be made, but I agree that the circus show is unnecessary.

Punaxe
19-10-10, 00:02
As mentioned before, unless the spammers came from Sussex, I'm pretty sure the police have absolutely no jurisdiction to do anything about it. They can pass on intelligence, but I'll (buy and) eat my hat if anything gets done. I actually doubt the law says anything about breaking an Internet forum's T&C. Also, for a High Tech Crimes Unit, the department has a suspiciously absent Web presence. Lastly, some of us are still waiting on the promised update regarding the last time Justin mentioned reporting spammers to the police. No offense, but I am honestly not convinced that this isn't an idle threat - which may well prove to have an opposite, challenging effect instead of what I suppose was intended.

If it is true though, I think anyone considering going to the police should first make a judgement regarding whether or not his or her issue is worth the police's already limited time and effort. In this case, I really don't think it was/would have been, not only because we all know nothing will come of it anyway, but also because this seems like a clear case to me where there are plenty of possibilities to deal with the issues yourself.

Lenochka
19-10-10, 00:35
What I find funny is how alot of the people who think you are overreacting are or have been associated with past members who have returned to spam. (most likely part of the recent spamming aswell.) :p

Some trolling isn't too awful but I can remember how irritating it is to be be browsing the forum freely and have one of your parents are younger siblings around when that **** is posted. Normally I wouldn't think it was right to bring the police into this but what else can you do now?

Melonie Tomb Raider
19-10-10, 00:41
Oh heck YES! :yah:

I've recently discovered that some ex TRF members have been plotting to send me filth as well. Even resorted to stalking behaviors. I'm beginning to think these are probably the same people.

So glad you took action on this. :tmb:

matrix54
19-10-10, 00:53
Mel, there was a thread about you made, not sure if you'd seen it. I guess it's safe to say yes to it being them.

Catapharact
19-10-10, 00:54
I've recently discovered that some ex TRF members have been plotting to send me filth as well. Even resorted to stalking behaviors. I'm beginning to think these are probably the same people.


And there you have it people. Its clear that some of these trouble makers were only in this to vandalize this place and target people and to defame them. Do you seriously think that perma-banning them stops them from being idiots? Far from it.

Forwen
19-10-10, 00:54
Bring on the lolsuits! The internet is srs bsns

Proceedings? Damages? Charges? Harrassment? Some people in this thread are truly... optimistic... if they think the porn-posting episode will amount to anything at all, and if it would then it would cease to be comical and become quite tragic. Keep it coming though - this thread might not be ED-quality material, but it's entertainment anyway.

The only truly objectionable thing I see about all this is trying to get the police involved at all. I actually think this is a very reckless thing to do, because it's just an open provocation to just about anyone to try the same. It requires little skill, and if you're from outside the UK it has no inherent threat to it either, yet plenty of lulz to milk. Personally I suspect the main motivation behind this stunt is that TRC needs to uphold its good relationship with Eidos, since it's been one of the main conduits for official TR-related materials for years.

trXD
19-10-10, 00:57
Oh heck YES! :yah:

I've recently discovered that some ex TRF members have been plotting to send me filth as well. Even resorted to stalking behaviors. I'm beginning to think these are probably the same people.

So glad you took action on this. :tmb:

Wow, they really are losers, stalking a random girl over the internet, isn't that as pathetic as you can get?

Mel, there was a thread about you made, not sure if you'd seen it. I guess it's safe to say yes to it being them.

It was only about like "lern how to put your thingies in properly lolololol" can't remember if it was eyelashes or hair extensions or something dumb like that.

SkyPuppy
19-10-10, 01:00
It was only about like "lern how to put your thingies in properly lolololol" can't remember if it was eyelashes or hair extensions or something dumb like that.

it was foundation and eye liner. :)

Catapharact
19-10-10, 01:01
it was foundation and eye liner. :)

Oh there were more... sinister threads on her. Eyeliner and foundation were just a small part of it.

Tonyrobinson
19-10-10, 01:02
Good on you Justin!

It's definatley been the year of drama on TRF! :D

SkyPuppy
19-10-10, 01:03
Oh there were more... sinister threads on her. Eyeliner and foundation were just a small part of it.

refresh my memory? i seem to have forgotten.

Catapharact
19-10-10, 01:05
refresh my memory? i seem to have forgotten.

I rather not. Its just too stupid. Lets just say Mel was compared to things that do not need to be discussed. Its just not right.

Legend of Lara
19-10-10, 01:05
refresh my memory? i seem to have forgotten.

Porn. Real AND drawn. D:

Melonie Tomb Raider
19-10-10, 01:05
Mel, there was a thread about you made, not sure if you'd seen it. I guess it's safe to say yes to it being them.

And there you have it people. Its clear that some of these trouble makers were only in this to vandalize this place and target people and to defame them. Do you seriously think that perma-banning them stops them from being idiots? Far from it.

Wow, they really are losers, stalking a random girl over the internet, isn't that as pathetic as you can get?



It was only about like "lern how to put your thingies in properly lolololol" can't remember if it was eyelashes or hair extensions or something dumb like that.

it was foundation and eye liner. :)

Oh there were more... sinister threads on her. Eyeliner and foundation were just a small part of it.

lol wow, they must really think about me a lot to sabotage me on the forums. :vlol:

At any rate, I didn't even see them, so oh well. Now that I know it's the same people, I have to give some major props to Justin for taking action on them. WOOP!! :yah:

SkyPuppy
19-10-10, 01:06
I rather not. Its just too stupid. Lets just say Mel was compared to things that do not need to be discussed. Its just not right.

If it's not tight, then it's not right. ;)

Porn. Real AND drawn. D:

Never forget. <3

trlestew
19-10-10, 01:06
Oh heck YES! :yah:

I've recently discovered that some ex TRF members have been plotting to send me filth as well. Even resorted to stalking behaviors. I'm beginning to think these are probably the same people.

So glad you took action on this. :tmb:

They made several insult threads about you :|
Was quite rude.

Anyway, I really don't understand the court thing. Why go to such drastic actions? I think a perma IP ban is enough.

Paddy
19-10-10, 01:07
If it's not tight, then it's not right. ;)



Never forget. <3

I loled :vlol: for some reason.

Catapharact
19-10-10, 01:08
lol wow, they must really think about me a lot to sabotage me on the forums. :vlol:

We (the people attacked) are in their heads 24/7 me thinks ;). Seems like they really do think about us as they go to their beds at night Lol! Sad... Just sad... Says a lot about their lives doesn't it?

SkyPuppy
19-10-10, 01:09
I loled :vlol: for some reason.

i'm glad someone did. <3

Paperdoll
19-10-10, 01:09
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this thread.

Phlip
19-10-10, 01:10
I'm actually scared now from hearing about this stuff from Mel. :o :vlol:

Paddy
19-10-10, 01:10
There are much better things to do then spam the hell out of a forum with crap lol
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this thread.

Cry laughing :p

Catapharact
19-10-10, 01:11
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this thread.

Do both... Orrrrr... neither?

Anyway, I have said all that I can say. If the case does indeeds moves forward, count me in to back it up with my own litigation and I do hope it does moves forward.

Paperdoll
19-10-10, 01:12
There are much better things to do then spam the hell out of a forum with crap lol


Cry laughing :p

Most likely. Because this is all friggin' ridiculous.

Melonie Tomb Raider
19-10-10, 01:14
We (the people attacked) are in their heads 24/7 me thinks ;). Seems like they really do think about us as they go to their beds at night Lol! Sad... Just sad... Says a lot about their lives doesn't it?

Yes, it certainly does. :p It's flattering to know they think about me, but when they go that far, action needs to be taken and Justin did a great thing. :tmb:

Tonyrobinson
19-10-10, 01:14
To be honest it probably lies on jealousy because everyone know's Mel is the best looking member on the forum. Next to me ofcourse! :tea:

Catracoth
19-10-10, 01:15
I have to admit, it's a pretty pathetic thing to do - to simultaneously attack a forum. What are you really gaining by doing it? Now there's lawsuits being put down and who's really lost out? The idiots who decided to go and destroy a forum. Or attempt to anyway.

Paddy
19-10-10, 01:16
Its just silly, dont get anything out of it like you said Mason.

Phlip
19-10-10, 01:16
I hope Justin tells us who these freaks are if this gets resolved.

SkyPuppy
19-10-10, 01:17
To be honest it probably lies on jealousy because everyone know's Mel is the best looking member on the forum. Next to me ofcourse! :tea:

why would dudes be jealous of Melonie? doesn't really seem to make much sense unless you're saying....


oh, my. xD

Paperdoll
19-10-10, 01:17
I'll be very, very surprised if any of this follows through. Nice to see some people have hope but eh... illusions much? I'll just shut up now and make Punaxe's words my own. Most half decent post in this thread, really.

Tonyrobinson
19-10-10, 01:18
I love the fact that these members hide behind their computers to do their biddings of spam thinking they are safe from harsh realities but now it's come back to bit them in the ass and cross over to real life. In spite of all the recent arguments and drama on the forums it's moments like this we should stick together as a community of united Tomb Raider fans and be brought together which I feel everyone is doing in this thread! :hug:

ajrich17901
19-10-10, 01:19
I hope Justin tells us who these freaks are if this gets resolved.

I thought everyone knew who did it o_o..

Phlip
19-10-10, 01:20
I thought everyone knew who did it o_o..

Nope. Who is it supposed to be?

Paddy
19-10-10, 01:20
I love the fact that these members hide behind their computers to do their biddings of spam thinking they are safe from harsh realities but now it's come back to bit them in the ass and cross over to real life. In spite of all the recent arguments and drama on the forums it's moments like this we should stick together as a community of united Tomb Raider fans and be brought together which I feel everyone is doing in this thread! :hug:
Its a forum, thats all it is lol
Have to agree with Carla too.

SkyPuppy
19-10-10, 01:21
I love the fact that these members hide behind their computers to do their biddings of spam thinking they are safe from harsh realities but now it's come back to bit them in the ass and cross over to real life. In spite of all the recent arguments and drama on the forums it's moments like this we should stick together as a community of united Tomb Raider fans and be brought together which I feel everyone is doing in this thread! :hug:

if you mean mega ass kissing, then yeah, sure.

it's funny... these attackers did one thing right:

kept you all wondering and talking about it, even now.

truly amusing.

Tonyrobinson
19-10-10, 01:21
why would dudes be jealous of Melonie? doesn't really seem to make much sense unless you're saying....


oh, my. xD

Because she's the forums national treasure I mean she's a member that everyone seems to like and she certainly is the most popular and down to earth member of this forum that I've probably gotten on with, she doesn't judge she respects others and she resolves issues and give great advice maybe they are jealous of her popularity and that because they can't pick on her kind personality they retort to picking on her looks. :hug:

Paperdoll
19-10-10, 01:22
Its a forum, thats all it is lol

Nuh uh. It's serious business. The FBI and the CIA are on it. IT'S MY ENTIRE LIFE!!

Seriously, the more you yell that you're gonna tell your mom, the more the bullies will want to punch your face. This is turning into a circus. But eh.

AmericanAssassin
19-10-10, 01:24
I'll be very, very surprised if any of this follows through. Nice to see some people have hope but eh... illusions much?

I can't help, but agree with this. This thread makes it sound as if each person involved is going to be shipped off to prison and thrown into a sex offender database. Seriously, it's not even realistic. *Passes out chill pills*

Forwen
19-10-10, 01:24
I have to admit, it's a pretty pathetic thing to do - to simultaneously attack a forum. What are you really gaining by doing it? Now there's lawsuits being put down and who's really lost out? The idiots who decided to go and destroy a forum. Or attempt to anyway.

They've lost nothing but access to an internet forum.

SkyPuppy
19-10-10, 01:25
^exactly. i say they've gained more than they've lost.

Because she's the forums national treasure I mean she's a member that everyone seems to like and she certainly is the most popular and down to earth member of this forum that I've probably gotten on with, she doesn't judge she respects others and she resolves issues and give great advice maybe they are jealous of her popularity and that because they can't pick on her kind personality they retort to picking on her looks. :hug:

i honestly don't think she wants nor needs another one of these (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/member.php?u=36448).

Encore
19-10-10, 01:25
Because she's the forums national treasure I mean she's a member that everyone seems to like and she certainly is the most popular and down to earth member of this forum that I've probably gotten on with, she doesn't judge she respects others and she resolves issues and give great advice maybe they are jealous of her popularity and that because they can't pick on her kind personality they retort to picking on her looks. :hug:

Oh my God. :vlol:

Tonyrobinson
19-10-10, 01:25
I can't help, but agree with this. This thread makes it sound as if each person involved is going to be shipped off to prison and thrown into a sex offender database. Seriously, it's not even realistic. *Passes out chill pills*

Perhaps not realistic but it certainly is an effective warning. I mean I feel like this place is my home at times as cliche and weird as that sounds, mess with any of us forumers and Big Daddy penguin is going to Kick your ass! :D

Sir Croft
19-10-10, 01:26
We (the people attacked) are in their heads 24/7 me thinks ;). Seems like they really do think about us as they go to their beds at night Lol! Sad... Just sad... Says a lot about their lives doesn't it?

Creepy.

SkyPuppy
19-10-10, 01:26
Oh my God. :vlol:

+1

Paddy
19-10-10, 01:27
The asskissing in this threads getting ridiculous lol

Tonyrobinson
19-10-10, 01:28
Why is everyone reacting weird towards my liking of Melonie, Yeah we aren't like two best friends but I do generally like the girl and her productive posts. :p

Paperdoll
19-10-10, 01:28
Whatever floats your boat, dude... it's more fuel to the fire.

SkyPuppy
19-10-10, 01:30
Whatever floats your boat, dude... it's more fuel to the fire.

more like whatever tickles his pickle.

Paperdoll
19-10-10, 01:30
It's 2h30am, my vocabulary has pretty much been worn out by now :p

Tonyrobinson
19-10-10, 01:31
Judging by my very mannly avatar I don't think I've set out to give the impression that I want my Pickle tickled by a female. ;)

Also, I will be quiet now I was just giving my two cents worth.

SkyPuppy
19-10-10, 01:32
It's 2h30am, my vocabulary has pretty much been worn out by now :p

no excuses! D':

AmericanAssassin
19-10-10, 01:33
I don't think I've set out to give the impression that I want my Pickle tickled by a female.

LMFAO!!! :vlol:

Tonyrobinson
19-10-10, 01:34
LMFAO!!! :vlol:

Just stating the obvious. :)

Melonie Tomb Raider
19-10-10, 01:34
Thank you Tony, you are very kind. :hug:

Tonyrobinson
19-10-10, 01:35
Thank you Tony, you are very kind. :hug:

Right back at ya! :hug:

Sir Croft
19-10-10, 01:42
I wouldn't doubt some members plotting against others. We've seen worse before.

Johnnay
19-10-10, 01:46
Oh heck YES! :yah:

I've recently discovered that some ex TRF members have been plotting to send me filth as well. Even resorted to stalking behaviors. I'm beginning to think these are probably the same people.

So glad you took action on this. :tmb:

indeed:)

why would dudes be jealous of Melonie? doesn't really seem to make much sense unless you're saying....


oh, my. xD

i know because she is a devout christian and she has........ its a long story but on that debate it involved her and VB getting into a fight... i wouldnt know about it anyway as i obviously wouldnt recall it, but that is one reason why shes targeted..

Melonie Tomb Raider
19-10-10, 01:49
I am almost certain I know who is the main cause, but I see no reason to point fingers. As long as it is resolved, we have no reason to point fingers about it. :)

Even if it isn't resolved, it's best to leave people alone. :p I don't want to stoop to that level. Major props to Justin for taking action, but even if nothing comes of it, I have major respect for him for trying.

If whoever did this is who I think it is, I have nothing bad to say about them. They just did something silly out of anger, but I don't consider this individual to be a bad person by any means. They actually have a very nice good side.

scoopy_loopy
19-10-10, 04:58
The attacks on this board were just random events. They were organized and focused...

You're seriously misinformed and far too eager seem in-the-know. ;););););) From what I saw, been told and know first hand - the attack was done by two previous members who went out with a bang, after intense dissatisfaction with the forum.

The thought of all this being planned like some 4chan attack of a government website is absolutely hilarious. But please, continue running your mouth and milking this for all it's worth. It's making my day.

Bring on the lolsuits! The internet is srs bsns

Proceedings? Damages? Charges? Harrassment? Some people in this thread are truly... optimistic... if they think the porn-posting episode will amount to anything at all, and if it would then it would cease to be comical and become quite tragic. Keep it coming though - this thread might not be ED-quality material, but it's entertainment anyway.

The only truly objectionable thing I see about all this is trying to get the police involved at all. I actually think this is a very reckless thing to do, because it's just an open provocation to just about anyone to try the same. It requires little skill, and if you're from outside the UK it has no inherent threat to it either, yet plenty of lulz to milk. Personally I suspect the main motivation behind this stunt is that TRC needs to uphold its good relationship with Eidos, since it's been one of the main conduits for official TR-related materials for years.

Thank you. You've voiced my thoughts spot-on. No, I don't think posting porn or being mean should be encouraged, yes it should be deleted. But involving the police?

Oh please.

Because she's the forums national treasure I mean she's a member that everyone seems to like and she certainly is the most popular and down to earth member of this forum that I've probably gotten on with, she doesn't judge she respects others and she resolves issues and give great advice maybe they are jealous of her popularity and that because they can't pick on her kind personality they retort to picking on her looks. :hug:

I thought that was hilarious sarcasm, then I read past the first sentence and realised that, no, you at least want to sound like you're being genuine.

So, excuse me as I go vomit. She's a 'human' and fellow member, not a pop-star or video game heroine - how creepy can you get?

Avalon SARL
19-10-10, 07:33
That's very great work from you in my opinion
:tmb:
You are a an excellent penguin :D

touchthesky
19-10-10, 08:41
http://www.bwass.org/bucket/overreaction.jpg

digitizedboy
19-10-10, 09:38
The asskissing in this threads getting ridiculous lol

Agreed.

EscondeR
19-10-10, 09:46
The asskissing in this threads getting ridiculous lol

Bashing as well ;)

trXD
19-10-10, 10:13
it was foundation and eye liner. :)

Feel the BURN melonie D:

Paperdoll
19-10-10, 13:48
Bashing as well ;)

I wouldn't say bashing. Facepalming is more like it.

Encore
19-10-10, 14:14
http://www.bwass.org/bucket/overreaction.jpg

Lmao, that dude's face never gets old. :vlol:

Bashing as well ;)

Although the spam attacks were pretty childish in themselves, I won't deny that some members of this forum need a serious wake up call. Too bad one has to become a troll to make that happen.

lara c. fan
19-10-10, 15:09
Just off the top of my head, I can count three unlawful actions by the "spammers" from before: exposing minors to adult content, defamation of character (libel to be specific), and breech of contract (T&C). Now, two of these would likely have to go to civil court instead of criminal court, but they're illegal actions nonetheless.


Character defamation, fine. But, exposing minors to adult content... What about the media? And breech of contract being the T&C... Well, haven't a lot of people broken that in the past? Hell, technically, I have. Shall I ring the police now?

Catapharact
19-10-10, 15:37
You're seriously misinformed and far too eager seem in-the-know. ;););););) From what I saw, been told and know first hand - the attack was done by two previous members who went out with a bang, after intense dissatisfaction with the forum.

The thought of all this being planned like some 4chan attack of a government website is absolutely hilarious. But please, continue running your mouth and milking this for all it's worth. It's making my day.

It only clarifies their intent even more ;). Vandalization of this forum was their end goal and as such they are going to get their just deserts for it. Its funny how they dug themselves an even bigger hole by targeting individuals on this forum with such focus... Tsk tsk... Like I said before, it speaks a lot about their lives and personalities. Sad sad beings... Were they so attention deprived that they had to "go out with a bang?"

I think I have found the perfect song for them (and probably every Liberal out there who can be saved :p.)

x7CMd4efmw0

snork
19-10-10, 15:46
[YOUTUBE]

What was this posted for ? As a good example for evil vandalisation ? :pi:

Catapharact
19-10-10, 15:51
What was this posted for ? As a good example for evil vandalisation ? :pi:

No actually, just making a point without actually targeting forum members ;). Works wonders at hammering down the point without going on a forum member insulting tangent.

EscondeR
19-10-10, 16:09
Although the spam attacks were pretty childish in themselves, I won't deny that some members of this forum need a serious wake up call. Too bad one has to become a troll to make that happen.

Noone "has" actually, it's the matter of choice always. I'm not saying if that choice is "good" or "bad", but it always exists :)

Melonie Tomb Raider
19-10-10, 17:39
It only clarifies their intent even more ;). Vandalization of this forum was their end goal and as such they are going to get their just deserts for it. Its funny how they dug themselves an even bigger hole by targeting individuals on this forum with such focus... Tsk tsk... Like I said before, it speaks a lot about their lives and personalities. Sad sad beings... Were they so attention deprived that they had to "go out with a bang?"

I think I have found the perfect song for them (and probably every Liberal out there who can be saved :p.)

x7CMd4efmw0

Loooooove that song :yah:

freeze10108
19-10-10, 18:47
Character defamation, fine. But, exposing minors to adult content... What about the media? And breech of contract being the T&C... Well, haven't a lot of people broken that in the past? Hell, technically, I have. Shall I ring the police now?

Do you mean to tell me that the media exposes minors to adult content (hardcore pornography) where you live?

As with many smaller crimes, the administrator (or other end of the contract) has the right as the enforcer to pick and choose which breaches of contract (T&C) to act upon, and which not to, as a police officer has the discretion as to choose whether you get a ticket, or a warning. The more severe the crime (or breech) the more likely you are to be punished.

Lara's home
19-10-10, 18:52
Do you mean to tell me that the media exposes minors to adult content (hardcore pornography) where you live?

Softcore pornagrofy isn't adult content?
Adult content regards everything that is ment for the adult viewers. Be it violence, sex or other things. Good luck finding a child who hasn't seen "non-funny" violence on TV. This is why movies are rated. Everything rated 18 is adult content. Imo, 15+ is also adult content, to a lesser extent.

Mokono
19-10-10, 20:26
The asskissing in this threads getting ridiculous lol

Bashing as well ;)

Just because a post doesn't have ":tmb:", ":yah:" or ":hug:" at the end of a sentence doesn't mean it's "bashing", some of us are just making respectful criticism.

toxicraider
19-10-10, 20:53
Softcore pornagrofy isn't adult content?
Adult content regards everything that is ment for the adult viewers. Be it violence, sex or other things. Good luck finding a child who hasn't seen "non-funny" violence on TV. This is why movies are rated. Everything rated 18 is adult content. Imo, 15+ is also adult content, to a lesser extent.
Softcore pornography and 15-18+ films are almost always shown after the watershed (in the UK). Now I've never seen anything in the way of a disclaimer, but the watershed is there so that shows are guaranteed to have safe viewing before that time, but not afterwards. TRF does claim to be safe for children, by having no warnings as to the contrary.
As for what is considered soft-porn, or safe for children, obvious a woman in a bikini, or heaps of innuendos could be considered inappropriate by some, but they aren't by general regulations.

freeze10108
19-10-10, 21:03
Softcore pornagrofy isn't adult content?
Adult content regards everything that is ment for the adult viewers. Be it violence, sex or other things. Good luck finding a child who hasn't seen "non-funny" violence on TV. This is why movies are rated. Everything rated 18 is adult content. Imo, 15+ is also adult content, to a lesser extent.

No, I consider softcore to be adult content too, but what was posted was hardcore, which is what I was using as my point. ;)

Encore
19-10-10, 21:04
People get far more worked up over sex than violence. Interesting.

Liara
19-10-10, 21:11
People get far more worked up over sex than violence. Interesting.
I think it's probably because you're more likely to see people fighting in public than having sex. Any kid can see someone beating the living daylights out of someone on the street. Or on TV (since it can be on the news) Everyone's exposed to violence no matter what you do.

TombRaiderLover
19-10-10, 21:14
I think it's probably because you're more likely to see people fighting in public than having sex. Any kid can see someone beating the living daylights out of someone on the street. Or on TV (since it can be on the news) Everyone's exposed to violence no matter what you do.I don't know about you, but I'm exposed to nudity more frequently than I am violence. It's a result of showering daily.

jackles
19-10-10, 21:18
I think it's probably because you're more likely to see people fighting in public than having sex. Any kid can see someone beating the living daylights out of someone on the street. Or on TV (since it can be on the news) Everyone's exposed to violence no matter what you do.


Thats an interesting point, the kids I work with see violence quite a lot...sometimes in their own classrooms even ( we have had some disturbed wee chaps at times :() there can be fights in the playground etc whereas sex is something that is much more taboo.

lara c. fan
19-10-10, 21:19
I don't know about you, but I'm exposed to nudity more frequently than I am violence. It's a result of showering daily.

I think I love you, Dale.

lita212
19-10-10, 21:20
wow didnt even know anything about this. why do people do these things?

TombRaiderLover
19-10-10, 21:21
I think I love you, Dale.I love you too, Dan.

Liara
19-10-10, 21:23
I don't know about you, but I'm exposed to nudity more frequently than I am violence. It's a result of showering daily.
Lol, we seriously need a "comments of the week" thread. :D

Thats an interesting point, the kids I work with see violence quite a lot...sometimes in their own classrooms even
Protecting something that is yours is a powerful instinct and it appears at an early age. So it's only natural that it shows up in class. It's a shame, though. Good thing the whole sex part of our instincts develops much later...

Mokono
19-10-10, 21:26
I have to admit, it's a pretty pathetic thing to do - to simultaneously attack a forum. What are you really gaining by doing it? Now there's lawsuits being put down and who's really lost out? The idiots who decided to go and destroy a forum. Or attempt to anyway.

Don't be surprised if the demandant happens to be more lost than the defendant, let's check what the suitor said in the opening post:

On two separate occasions during the past two weeks, a small group of former members have launched co-coordinated attacks on our forum, each time subjecting members as young as 13 to obscene material.

The first thing to do is prove that there were members as young as 13 logged at the time of the attacks and also prove that they spent a reasonable amount of time in one of the spamming threads, the latter is more likely to be impossible because, since i can't find anything, the threads are long gone. The second thing to do is prove that there was a direct intention to incite sexual arousal in minors and also prove that the material in question was both pornographic (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/pornography) and obscene (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Obscenity).

Now, for what is written in this thread, i can assume that the spammers are American naturals; as such, they're holders of the rights granted by the First Amendment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) , which guarantees freedom of expression, including sexual expression. If they can appeal that the material in question was posted as a manifestation of discomfort (read: protest) regarding internal issues, the so far draft of a misdemeanor loses it's base. I think it's necessary to make a remark in the word "protest", because that was the nature of the attacks as it has already been explicited in this thread.

Here comes the interesting part: if the material in question portrays merely nudity, the defendants could resource to the AANR (American Association for Nude Recreation), entity that has been openly advocating nudity and shaping related American jurisprudence (http://www.aanr.com/legal-matters) to defend their interests. Regarding this, i was checking a prohibitition of nudity (http://www.adultinternetlaw.com/articles/public_nudity.php) in Erie, Pennsylvania, issued by the U.S. Supreme Court, which main purpose was not to "suppress the erotic message conveyed by nude dancing", but to "deter the secondary effects of public nudity that adversely impact public health, safety and welfare, such as violence, sexual harassment, public intoxication, prostitution, and the spread of sexually transmitted diseases". As you can see, it wasn't a punishment of the erotic message, but a prevention of it's consequences, which are hazardous for the public. Also notice that the "secondary effects" are unlikely to develop on an internet forum due to spam.

Now i'd like to quote this post regarding jurisdictional issues:

As mentioned before, unless the spammers came from Sussex, I'm pretty sure the police have absolutely no jurisdiction to do anything about it. They can pass on intelligence, but I'll (buy and) eat my hat if anything gets done. I actually doubt the law says anything about breaking an Internet forum's T&C. Also, for a High Tech Crimes Unit, the department has a suspiciously absent Web presence.

While Tomb Raider Forums could use one of it's American affiliates to hold a case against the spammers, it still requires a reasonable amount of money to finance the whole process. Implying Tomb Raider Forum lacks of the resources to advance further on legal grounds (deduction made from the fact that this site has asked for donations in order to update), the demandant would have to hire a State attorney paid with taxpayers' money, which would also be a double spenditure if the defendant happens to do the same. Why? because of, as mentioned above, someone broke the T&C of an internet gaming forum.

Lastly, some of us are still waiting on the promised update regarding the last time Justin mentioned reporting spammers to the police. No offense, but I am honestly not convinced that this isn't an idle threat - which may well prove to have an opposite, challenging effect instead of what I suppose was intended.

I include myself here, because as i said here (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=172489&page=631), the outcome is still unknown, that if there was any outcome to begin with.

Wat many of you have been missing is that filling a law complaint doesn't grant an instantaneous victory for the demandant and would eventually require investment if there's a will to proceed further. Even if that's the case, that doesn't grant an inmediate victory over the defendant, who could also resource to a counter sue for the resulting nuisances. Legal grounds are not a plain horizon like many of you are thinking. Filling a police report over a spam attack is like calling the fire department over a flamewar, so if Tomb Raider Forum is really willing to go on with this game, a nice start would be to update the public announcement to include "Help us win a law suit against the spamers. DONATE NOW!".

lara c. fan
19-10-10, 21:31
^ Brilliant post, Mokono.

Ward Dragon
19-10-10, 21:34
and also prove that the material in question was both pornographic (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/pornography) and obscene (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Obscenity).

As the person who had to delete all of the spam in the latest attack, I can say that some of it was definitely pornographic and obscene according to those definitions.

trXD
19-10-10, 22:03
The first thing to do is prove that there were members as young as 13 logged at the time of the attacks and also prove that they spent a reasonable amount of time in one of the spamming threads

Just to interrupt, I don't think that should affect it, those people posted the pornographic content knowing that thirteen year olds could end up seeing it, if no youngsters saw it then good, but that doesn't change what they did at their end at all.

Edit: And yes definitely there was obscene material, I think almost everyone who was here could be witnesses to that.

voltz
19-10-10, 22:41
Just to interrupt, I don't think that should affect it, those people posted the pornographic content knowing that thirteen year olds could end up seeing it, if no youngsters saw it then good, but that doesn't change what they did at their end at all.

Actually it ain't. See these boards are meant to be open to all age groups and just the act of pornographic distribution is a criminal violation depending on the laws governing the state/country you live in. If the authorities decide to press charges, then that's become their problem to deal with.

Bare in mind, they have access to every post they made, so what happens with them next is out of our hands.

Catracoth
19-10-10, 22:42
As the person who had to delete all of the spam in the latest attack, I can say that some of it was definitely pornographic and obscene according to those definitions.

Indeed. I witnessed a few and had to explain to my mother who happened to pass by that TombRaiderForums is not a dirty website. :rolleyes:

voltz
19-10-10, 22:45
Imagine being caught in the workplace with those posts. No second chance for you my friend! :pi:

Lara's home
19-10-10, 22:46
No, I consider softcore to b adult content too, but what was posted was hardcore, which is what I was using as my point. ;)
Then i apologize. I thought you just ment in general. :)

Dennis's Mom
19-10-10, 22:50
There is, however, breach of contract involved.

As members, they agreed to abide by codes of conduct to participate in what is essentially a private club. Therefore, some First Amendment rights are surrendered to participate.

Even as a member in good standing, I cannot post a pornographic gif and claim I'm "expressing myself" at TRF. I agreed to that stipulation when I joined.

The idea of "pornography as protest" is ridiculous.

I will say again that this action is most probably the beginning of a file documentation process. So long as the individuals involved move on to more productive endeavors, nothing further will come of this.

freeze10108
19-10-10, 23:31
I don't know about you, but I'm exposed to nudity more frequently than I am violence. It's a result of showering daily.

Showering, however, is not the same as looking at people having sexual intercourse. ;)

The first thing to do is prove that there were members as young as 13 logged at the time of the attacks and also prove that they spent a reasonable amount of time in one of the spamming threads, the latter is more likely to be impossible because, since i can't find anything, the threads are long gone.

I'm sure that Justin made a backup or at least saved the files he needed to prove this.

Now, for what is written in this thread, i can assume that the spammers are American naturals; as such, they're holders of the rights granted by the First Amendment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) , which guarantees freedom of expression, including sexual expression. If they can appeal that the material in question was posted as a manifestation of discomfort (read: protest) regarding internal issues, the so far draft of a misdemeanor loses it's base. I think it's necessary to make a remark in the word "protest", because that was the nature of the attacks as it has already been explicited in this thread.

The Bill of Rights (as well as the Constitution in general) is NOT meant to be read literally, and that's why the Supreme Court has the power of judicial review; things get really tricky when trying to cite the Constitution for anything. Freedom of expression is not limitless; if you've done something illegal, your right to freedom of expression can be denied, e.g., if someone killed another in protest, he'd or she'd have to go on trial for the murder.

nudity

The posts were not just nude people; they were of people having sex, and thus, not applicable.