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IceColdLaraCroft
19-10-10, 17:36
YAY there is justice in the world!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/19/cat-bin-woman-mary-bale

One inexplicable moment of cruelty when Mary Bale seized a cat and dropped it into a wheelie bin was punished with a modest £250 fine today. But the 45-year-old former bank worker may pay the price for her impulsive act for the rest of her life.

The "cat bin woman" from Coventry became reviled around the world, receiving abusive phone calls and death threats from as far afield as Australia, after what she described as a "split second of misjudgment" – which was captured on CCTV and uploaded to YouTube.

Thousands of people signed Facebook pages claiming "Mary Bale is worse than Hitler" and calling for the "Death Penalty for Mary Bale" as she attracted newspaper headlines from "It's a fur cop" to "Miaow could she?"

The question of why a middle-aged, respectable, apparently cat-loving woman would behave in such a way was not exactly answered in Coventry magistrates court today. But the court heard how Bale was stressed and worried about her ill father, whom she would visit in hospital every day, regularly pausing on her walk home to stroke the four-year-old tabby cat called Lola.

On the evening of 21 August, rather than just fondle the cat, she glanced around twice, opened the lid of a nearby green bin and put the cat inside before walking off briskly to her home three streets away.

The cat was trapped for 15 hours until her owners, Stephanie Andrews-Mann, 24, and husband Darryl, 26, found her the following morning. When they played back footage from a CCTV camera installed to deter vandals outside their home, they discovered the evidence and posted a clip lasting one minute 27 seconds on the internet, appealing for people to help identify the woman.

Confronted by the tabloid press, Bale at first claimed she "suddenly thought it would be funny" to put the cat in the bin. Later, requiring police protection after threats against her, she apologised and called her actions "completely out of character".

Nick Sutton, for the RSPCA, told the court it was obvious that her actions were deliberate. "She plainly looked to see if anyone was watching, which means she was clearly aware of the moral position she was in at that time," he said.

Bale's solicitor, David Murray, said she had "very little recollection" of the incident. "The court will of course be concerned as to why this matter happened. Mary Bale has asked herself the same questions for the last two months, hourly," he said.

"The cat was often on the wall seeking attention and she would stroke it. She cannot explain why her behaviour changed on this occasion."

Later, in a statement, he added: "Despite a lengthy period of soul-searching, she cannot still explain her behaviour but she wishes to repeat her apology to the owners of Lola and bitterly regrets her actions."

Bale, who appeared close to tears in court and admitted a charge of causing unnecessary suffering to an animal, was spared the maximum penalty of six months in prison or a £20,000 fine as the district judge Caroline Goulborn acknowledged the "vilification" she had suffered.

The judge also accepted that Bale was in a "stressful situation" at the time, but said that was "no excuse for what you did".

"It clearly was an irrational and impulsive act that you could not explain and in interview you said that you were mortified. I accept that your remorse is genuine," the judge said. "The media interest in this case has resulted in you being vilified in some quarters and I have taken that into account also."

Bale was fined £250 but was also ordered to pay a victim surcharge and costs, a total of £1,436.04. The RSPCA called it "a very fair decision".

Banned from keeping or owning animals for the next five years, Bale may find her infamy takes as long to fade. After a period signed off work for depression, she has now resigned from her job, unable to face her colleagues again.

Bale's father died last Thursday and, according to her solicitor, she now simply wants to help her bereaved mother. She is unlikely to be left alone to do so, and any support may be as unwelcome as the hatred. As she fled a scrum of photographers outside court, an onlooker shouted: "I love you cat lady. Cat lady you are my hero."

Melonie Tomb Raider
19-10-10, 17:42
YES!!!!!!!!! After watching what happened, it deeply bothered me. :( I am so happy to see that this lady is getting punished for it. Serves her right!

ozzman
19-10-10, 18:09
i still think she's a heartless ***** who hates cats

digitizedboy
19-10-10, 18:11
Thousands of people signed Facebook pages claiming "Mary Bale is worse than Hitler" and calling for the "Death Penalty for Mary Bale"

Only on Facebook.

TRfan23
19-10-10, 18:17
I love cats a lot, and yes the lady was awful for doing that, and that would account to animal abuse.


Thousands of people signed Facebook pages claiming "Mary Bale is worse than Hitler" and calling for the "Death Penalty for Mary Bale"

Only on Facebook.

But I really don't like animal extremists ;)

DragonSlayer
19-10-10, 18:34
Justice for the cat at last anyone remember the cat's name i've forgotten it
what she did made me :hea: i seem to remember seeing something on paul o grady's show in which he put a bin lady lookalike in a cage with a lion and asked her to put it in a bin later on he said she had been eaten.

I think i read on gamepolitics that there was an online game where you could put her into a bin.

Tombraiderx08
19-10-10, 18:37
Cool :)

Dark Lugia 2
19-10-10, 18:41
Her dad just died last week and all everyone can think about is about is her putting a cat in a bin... :/

Sgt BOMBULOUS
19-10-10, 18:46
Her dad just died last week and all everyone can think about is about is her putting a cat in a bin... :/

There's a thread about a cat created approx. every 4.5 minutes in GC. I'd just get used to it.

Thousands of people signed Facebook pages claiming "Mary Bale is worse than Hitler" and calling for the "Death Penalty for Mary Bale" as she attracted newspaper headlines from "It's a fur cop" to "Miaow could she?"

And this is just stupid.

larafan25
19-10-10, 19:34
Huuuuzaaaaa!:D

Edit: WOAH not as bad as Hitler.:p

lara c. fan
19-10-10, 19:42
Thousands of people signed Facebook pages claiming "Mary Bale is worse than Hitler" and calling for the "Death Penalty for Mary Bale"

How stupid and ignorant. I expected a bit more even of Facebook.

Laras Backpack
19-10-10, 19:48
How stupid and ignorant. I expected a bit more even of Facebook.

I don't; especially after the whole Raol Moat fiasco. :pi:

xXhayleyroxXx
19-10-10, 20:05
good! She deserves more than that to be honest, but fines are better than nothing ^_^

Spong
19-10-10, 20:20
All this furore over a stupid woman putting a stupid cat in a bin, haven't people got better things to do? It was just a cat.
Thank God they didn't waste tax-payers money by putting the woman in prison.

xXhayleyroxXx
19-10-10, 20:24
All this furore over a stupid woman putting a stupid cat in a bin, haven't people got better things to do? It was just a cat.
Thank God they didn't waste tax-payers money by putting the woman in prison.

wrong thing to say ;)

Spong
19-10-10, 20:30
wrong thing to say ;)

So I'm expected to lie? Or say nothing? What kind of rubbish forum would that make this?

You might think it was the wrong thing to say, but I didn't. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to air it as much as the animal lovers are entitled to revile the woman. I've not discredited anyone else's views in this thread, I merely stated my own.

If the animal lovers can't handle that and all have a pop at me, well, it says something about their maturity and inability to accept other people's opinions.

Legend 4ever
19-10-10, 20:31
WTF people, those Facebook groups are titled that way to attract attention, they don't really want a death sentence for that woman -- it's supposed to be figurative.

trXD
19-10-10, 20:31
It was just a cat.

Would you be saying the same thing if a toddler was locked in a bin for fifteen hours? Of course you wouldn't. A cat is the same thing, they would both feel the same fear, frustration, hunger and thirst.

I can take people saying it is more important for humans to survive because they advance civilizations, but we all feel the same pain and you know it.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
19-10-10, 20:32
So I'm expected to lie? Or say nothing? What kind of rubbish forum would that make this?

You might think it was the wrong thing to say, but I didn't. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to air it as much as the animal lovers are entitled to revile the woman. I've not discredited anyone else's views in this thread, I merely stated my own.

If the animal lovers can't handle that and all have a pop at me, well, it says something about their maturity and inability to accept other people's opinions.

^this is why we needed you back.

xXhayleyroxXx
19-10-10, 20:32
Would you be saying the same thing if a toddler was locked in a bin for fifteen hours? Of course you wouldn't. A cat is the same thing, they would both feel the same fear, frustration, hunger and thirst.

I can take people saying it is more important for humans to survive because they advance civilizations, but we all feel the same pain and you know it.

Agreed :tmb: People make me so sick sometimes...

MangelinaJolie
19-10-10, 20:43
WTF people, those Facebook groups are titled that way to attract attention, they don't really want a death sentence for that woman -- it's supposed to be figurative.

This is exactly what I thought too. :confused:

Tony9595
19-10-10, 20:43
She deserves more than that to be honest

:vlol:!

Joely-Moley
19-10-10, 20:46
I'm not disagreeing that what she did was horrible and stupid but I think the reaction to this has been ridiculous. Death threats? Worse than Hitler? Come on!

I have cats and love animals and I'd be ****ed off if someone did this to mine but I wouldn't wish death on them.
Obviously I may of thought differently if the cat had died or been injured but it was fine and I'm glad she was charged with animal cruelty but the frenzy that has followed this case has been over the top. Had she killed a baby or something I can guarantee there wouldn't have been this type of reaction.

Edit, just noticed my rank changed?

xXhayleyroxXx
19-10-10, 20:49
:vlol:!

Yes? :p What did you find funny?

Mad Tony
19-10-10, 21:21
All this furore over a stupid woman putting a stupid cat in a bin, haven't people got better things to do? It was just a cat.
Thank God they didn't waste tax-payers money by putting the woman in prison.Agreed.

Would you be saying the same thing if a toddler was locked in a bin for fifteen hours? Of course you wouldn't. A cat is the same thing, they would both feel the same fear, frustration, hunger and thirst.

I can take people saying it is more important for humans to survive because they advance civilizations, but we all feel the same pain and you know it.A toddler is very different from a cat. There's a big difference and it's dangerous to think there isn't.

trXD
19-10-10, 21:24
A toddler is very different from a cat. There's a big difference and it's dangerous to think there isn't.

Of course they are different, but not in terms of what I just said, care to explain why you think toddler feeling pain is more unfortunate than a feline feeling pain?

Mad Tony
19-10-10, 21:50
Of course they are different, but not in terms of what I just said, care to explain why you think toddler feeling pain is more unfortunate than a feline feeling pain?Umm, I think it's you that needs to do the explaining not me.

voltz
19-10-10, 21:54
Glad to see karma doing it's job for once. ;)

Lizard of Oz
19-10-10, 21:54
I'm glad! :) Animals feel pain and emotions just as we do! It's not fair to do that to a living being! :mad:

Although I do think dead penalty would be a little extreme! :vlol:

IceColdLaraCroft
19-10-10, 21:57
I called for a jihad against her :)

So what if her father died she's not exactly a young woman, so he's lived a long life. She maliciously threw away someone else's pet. She caused other people pain and suffering not to mention the cat, but she had absolutely no regard for the owners.

Phlip
19-10-10, 21:59
Umm, I think it's you that needs to do the explaining not me.

You're the one who needs to answer it. I mean, why is a toddler being trapped in a bin worse than a cat being trapped in a bin when they both have fear and need food?

trXD
19-10-10, 21:59
Umm, I think it's you that needs to do the explaining not me.

I have done all my explaining, I have said that cats and toddlers are different in almost every way, but not in the way of feeling pain, and how both are equally important in that aspect.

Now tell me why you think the opposite, actually tell me why no more of that "just because" bull.

lara c. fan
19-10-10, 22:02
You're the one who needs to answer it. I mean, why is a toddler being trapped in a bin worse than a cat being trapped in a bin when they both have fear and need food?

Because a toddler is part of the human species. We are part of the human species. Wouldn't we feel worse for a toddler in the same position because we are interested in our own future, ensuring the survival of our species? Sure, it may have not done much, but my point still stands.

Mad Tony
19-10-10, 22:07
I have done all my explaining, I have said that cats and toddlers are different in almost every way, but not in the way of feeling pain, and how both are equally important in that aspect.

Now tell me why you think the opposite, actually tell me why no more of that "just because" bull.

You're the one who needs to answer it. I mean, why is a toddler being trapped in a bin worse than a cat being trapped in a bin when they both have fear and need food?One is a cat and one is a human. It's staggering the amount of people on this forum who put a child and a cat on the same level. Quite disgusting actually and a complete disregard of human life.

trXD
19-10-10, 22:08
Because a toddler is part of the human species. We are part of the human species. Wouldn't we feel worse for a toddler in the same position because we are interested in our own future, ensuring the survival of our species? Sure, it may have not done much, but my point still stands.

Survival is a different matter, many people think humans have more of a right to survive because we are advancing civilization, that's a good point and I can accept that, but we all feel the same pain.

Also for the toddler thing, I can't really relate to that at all. I would feel exactly the same amount of sympathy for a toddler that got kicked in the face and a puppy that got kicked in the face, I'd probably feel less sorry for a more mature person/animal just because they are better with dealing with it but that's a separate thing.

Phlip
19-10-10, 22:09
Because a toddler is part of the human species. We are part of the human species. Wouldn't we feel worse for a toddler in the same position because we are interested in our own future, ensuring the survival of our species? Sure, it may have not done much, but my point still stands.

One is a cat and one is a human. It's staggering the amount of people on this forum who put a child and a cat on the same level. Quite disgusting actually and a complete disregard of human life.

When it comes to pain and cruelty alone, and not the future, they are equal.

TombRaiderLover
19-10-10, 22:10
To those who value humans and animals equally - what about insects? They feel pain too, so would you have been so offended had an insect been on the receiving end of the woman's destruction?

trXD
19-10-10, 22:12
If an insect felt the exact same frustration and pain somehow (despite the fact that it being locked in a bin wouldn't be a bother to it), I would feel just as sorry for it. I value that stuff to be on the same level throughout the species. However I don't think that woman should be fined or anything like that anyway, she has suffered enough for what she did, not saying it matches the suffering of the cat just saying it wont solve anything and she clearly had her reasons, despite them being selfish.

One is a cat and one is a human. It's staggering the amount of people on this forum who put a child and a cat on the same level. Quite disgusting actually and a complete disregard of human life.

:rolleyes:

I expected that much from you madtony, you spit out your dummy, not only do you yet again refuse to listen to what I say but you don't even try to explain yourself.

I do not believe a cat and a human is on the same level for reasons I have said, however in terms of pain I think they are on exactly the same level. Now why do you disagree? "A cat is a cat and a human is a human" is not an answer, its just an obvious statement with no meaning.

If you refuse to answer for a third time, I can only assume you haven't got one.

Phlip
19-10-10, 22:12
To those who value humans and animals equally - what about insects? They feel pain too, so would you have been so offended had an insect been on the receiving end of the woman's destruction?

Insects last VERY short lives, so no. If an insect could live as long as a cat, yeah.

lara c. fan
19-10-10, 22:12
Survival is a different matter, many people think humans have more of a right to survive because we are advancing civilization, that's a good point and I can accept that, but we all feel the same pain.

I'm not saying we have more of a right. I'm saying we're interested in our own survival. As are tigers, monkeys, and leopards. As such, we'd feel more for one of our own.

When it comes to pain and cruelty alone, and not the future, they are equal.

Surely we should be thinking of the future?

Mad Tony
19-10-10, 22:12
When it comes to pain and cruelty alone, and not the future, they are equal.No, this reasoning makes no sense.

:rolleyes:

I expected that much from you madtony, you spit out your dummy, not only do you yet again refuse to listen to what I say but you don't even try to explain yourself.

I do not believe a cat and a human is on the same level for reasons I have said, however in terms of pain I think they are on exactly the same level. Now why do you disagree? "A cat is a cat and a human is a human" is not an answer, its just an obvious statement with no meaning.

If you refuse to answer for a third time, I can only assume you haven't got one.I already gave my reasons. A human is more important than a cat whichever way you look at it.

trXD
19-10-10, 22:17
I already gave my reasons. A human is more important than a cat whichever way you look at it.

You have gave no reasons, none, you have said "a cat is more important than a human in terms of pain" I have said "why?" and you have repeated yourself.

Is that your kind of logic? You dug yourself into a question you can't answer and now your being as arrogant as you can until you can back out, its pathetic.

And unless you come up with an actual reason why you think so, instead of rephrasing what you have said, there is no point in me continuing this as I have nothing to say to a brick wall.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
19-10-10, 22:19
You have gave no reasons, none, you have said "a cat is more important than a human in terms of pain" I have said "why?" and you have repeated yourself.

Is that your kind of logic? You dug yourself into a question you can't answer and now your being as arrogant as you can until you can back out, its pathetic.

He values human life more than that of an animal. What is left to explain?

Mad Tony
19-10-10, 22:20
You have gave no reasons, none, you have said "a cat is more important than a human in terms of pain" I have said "why?" and you have repeated yourself.

Is that your kind of logic? You dug yourself into a question you can't answer and now your being as arrogant as you can until you can back out, its pathetic.

And unless you come up with an actual reason why you think so, instead of rephrasing what you have said, there is no point in me continuing this as I have nothing to say to a brick wall.The problem is I'm giving my reason but because you obviously vehemently disagree with it you're doing nothing but throwing a tantrum.

Because we are more important it is obviously worse when one of our own is hurt than when a mere animal is. No, this does not mean I don't care about animals, I just know they're not as important as us.

voltz
19-10-10, 22:21
To those who value humans and animals equally - what about insects? They feel pain too, so would you have been so offended had an insect been on the receiving end of the woman's destruction?

Most insects don't have a pet owner, so it bares little regard to most people. :whi:

Phlip
19-10-10, 22:21
He values human life more than that of an animal. What is left to explain?

When it comes to JUST pain, why is it worse for humans? Because it's not, they go through the same amount of pain.

trXD
19-10-10, 22:21
No reasons mad tony, just unexplained statements and personal jabs. How does us being more important in the world make it worse for us to feel pain if it doesn't kill us?

He values human life more than that of an animal. What is left to explain?

So do I BOMBULOUS, pay attention.

TombRaiderLover
19-10-10, 22:22
Most insects don't have a pet owner, so it bares little regard to most people. :whi:Don't make me send my army of ants after you! :mad:

lara c. fan
19-10-10, 22:22
I'll just wander off, then.

Mad Tony
19-10-10, 22:23
When it comes to JUST pain, why is it worse for humans? Because it's not, they go through the same amount of pain.It's worse because we're more important.

trXD
19-10-10, 22:25
It's worse because we're more important.

What exactly is the link between how important it is to feel pain and how important we are in the world? Feeling pain has no affect on our status in the world and has no negative effect on humankind as a whole.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
19-10-10, 22:30
When it comes to JUST pain, why is it worse for humans? Because it's not, they go through the same amount of pain.

How do you know this?

The most reliable method for assessing pain in most humans is by asking a question: a person may report pain that cannot be detected by any known physiological measure. However, like infants (Latin infans meaning "unable to speak"), non-human animals cannot answer questions about whether they feel pain; thus the defining criterion for pain in humans cannot be applied to them. Philosophers and scientists have responded to this difficulty in a variety of ways. René Descartes for example argued that animals lack consciousness and therefore do not experience pain and suffering in the way that humans do.[74] Bernard Rollin of Colorado State University, the principal author of two U.S. federal laws regulating pain relief for animals,[75] writes that researchers remained unsure into the 1980s as to whether animals experience pain, and that veterinarians trained in the U.S. before 1989 were simply taught to ignore animal pain.[76] In his interactions with scientists and other veterinarians, he was regularly asked to "prove" that animals are conscious, and to provide "scientifically acceptable" grounds for claiming that they feel pain.[76] Carbone writes that the view that animals feel pain differently is now a minority view. Academic reviews of the topic are more equivocal, noting that although the argument that animals have at least simple conscious thoughts and feelings has strong support,[77] some critics continue to question how reliably animal mental states can be determined.[74][78] The ability of invertebrate species of animals, such as insects, to feel pain and suffering is also unclear.

Ref (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain#In_other_animals)

This is still something filled with conjecture at best.

Mad Tony
19-10-10, 22:32
What exactly is the link between how important it is to feel pain and how important we are in the world? Feeling pain has no affect on our status in the world and has no negative effect on humankind as a whole.As a human it means more to me if a random human is feeling pain than a random animal. Surely even you can understand that?

lara c. fan
19-10-10, 22:33
What exactly is the link between how important it is to feel pain and how important we are in the world? Feeling pain has no affect on our status in the world and has no negative effect on humankind as a whole.

It is possible to die from pain, I think. That would be negative.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
19-10-10, 22:33
As a human it means more to me if a random human is feeling pain than a random animal. Surely even you can understand that?

You'll never get the last word with him. EVER.

Lara's home
19-10-10, 22:36
Phlip, look.

A human lives much longer. If we traumatize a child, that child will live with that for much longer than a cat would.

We are humans. Naturally, we care for humans.

A cat is more robust compared to a baby. They can take more, basically.

Babies can't defend themselves in any ways except from screaming. A cat can, to some degree.

trXD
19-10-10, 22:41
It is possible to die from pain, I think. That would be negative.

That's a good point, and in that case I would say that I would rather it be a human than an animal, but other than that, if two beings just got hurt in the exact same way its the same.

How do you know this?



Ref (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain#In_other_animals)

This is still something filled with conjecture at best.

I'd like to say thats a good point but... come on? Animals don't feel pain? We see them feel pain all around us, we see them flinch and yelp and scream in the same way we do, it's just about possible that these reactions happen to be something completely alien, they are reacting to a sense we aren't even aware of, but I don't believe that for a second.

If mad tony said to me now he didn't believe animals felt pain, I wouldn't be able to prove otherwise, and I would have to drop the argument, at least that would be a valid point for him to make, but I don't think many people are under that impression at all.

As a human it means more to me if a random human is feeling pain than a random animal. Surely even you can understand that?

I swear to you, it honestly doesn't, if it did I would say but it doesn't the first bit of sense to me for one second why an animal feeling pain is less important to a human than a human feeling pain, it just makes no sense and thats why I'm pushing this so hard. As far as I can see, there is no logic behind it, at all.

Lara's home
19-10-10, 22:42
trXD.. If you saw child abuse and animal abuse..
Would it be 50/50 for you, which to save?

..Anyways. If you don't see any logic, at all; There's no point discussing this.

star-dust
19-10-10, 22:43
I'm glad the lady was identified and is being punished. They should put her in a bin for 15 hours and see how she likes it... :rolleyes:

CiaKonwerski
19-10-10, 22:46
I'm glad the lady was identified and is being punished. They should put her in a bin for 15 hours and see how she likes it... :rolleyes:

lol, agreed. :)

SkyPuppy
19-10-10, 22:47
I'm glad the lady was identified and is being punished. They should put her in a bin for 15 hours and see how she likes it... :rolleyes:

i also agree with this.

Love2Raid
19-10-10, 22:47
^ A bin full of used kitty litter.

lara c. fan
19-10-10, 22:49
Wait, what's there to suggest that she was in a perfectly normal mental state? It says she was quite stressed about her father dying, and stress would affect different people in different ways. She might not have been thinking clearly.

voltz
19-10-10, 22:49
Sometimes impaired judgment doesn't exclude sheer ignorance.


^ A bin full of used kitty litter.

That would rather stink now wouldn't it?

SkyPuppy
19-10-10, 22:53
Wait, what's there to suggest that she was in a perfectly normal mental state? It says she was quite stressed about her father dying, and stress would affect different people in different ways. She might not have been thinking clearly.

It doesn't matter, Dan. Why give people excuses? Animals rarely get a second chance when they do something wrong, so why should this ***** get an excuse? She shouldn't. I don't care what happened to her... you don't do that to a cat.

Love2Raid
19-10-10, 22:54
That would rather stink now wouldn't it?
Yes, it would. :)

lara c. fan
19-10-10, 22:58
It doesn't matter, Dan. Why give people excuses? Animals rarely get a second chance when they do something wrong, so why should this ***** get an excuse? She shouldn't. I don't care what happened to her... you don't do that to a cat.

I'm sure other's have been through much worse, and the owners or whoever did it to them hasn't been caught and sensationalised by the media. £250 fine? Fine, leave it at that. She's apologized for her actions. Leave it at that.

Maybe if the cat had died, fine, do what you will.

Also, why would the cat have been feeling pain? Maybe a small bit from the fall, but what else?

digitizedboy
19-10-10, 23:03
Insects last VERY short lives, so no. If an insect could live as long as a cat, yeah.

That's besides the point. They have every right to live and be here as us humans or any living creature. They actually contribute to the ecosystem.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
19-10-10, 23:05
That's a good point, and in that case I would say that I would rather it be a human than an animal, but other than that, if two beings just got hurt in the exact same way its the same.



I'd like to say thats a good point but... come on? Animals don't feel pain? We see them feel pain all around us, we see them flinch and yelp and scream in the same way we do, it's just about possible that these reactions happen to be something completely alien, they are reacting to a sense we aren't even aware of, but I don't believe that for a second.

If mad tony said to me now he didn't believe animals felt pain, I wouldn't be able to prove otherwise, and I would have to drop the argument, at least that would be a valid point for him to make, but I don't think many people are under that impression at all.



I swear to you, it honestly doesn't, if it did I would say but it doesn't the first bit of sense to me for one second why an animal feeling pain is less important to a human than a human feeling pain, it just makes no sense and thats why I'm pushing this so hard. As far as I can see, there is no logic behind it, at all.

I know, I know... The only good points are the ones that you make. ;) But seriously... Why is it so hard for you to accept that other people can have different beliefs? I've seen this before. You'd sooner argue in circles with someone until one of you DIES, than admit the possibility that there is no right answer, you both just feel differently about it. This is an abstract subject here... Pain perception? I've already cited that scholars don't even agree on this, and yet you think you have the answer. The reason? "Because I said so", essentially.

Love2Raid
19-10-10, 23:07
That's besides the point. They have every right to live and be here as us humans or any living creature. They actually contribute to the ecosystem.
Unlike us. :rolleyes:

They have handled this properly, a fine of 250 pounds seems fair.

Lara C Fan:
It must have been really scared, it could have suffered a psychological trauma. Yes, animals have feelings too and have every right to be handled with respect, just like you treat human beings.

trXD
19-10-10, 23:10
I know, I know... The only good points are the ones that you make. ;) But seriously... Why is it so hard for you to accept that other people can have different beliefs? I've seen this before. You'd sooner argue in circles with someone until one of you DIES, than admit the possibility that there is no right answer, you both just feel differently about it. This is an abstract subject here... Pain perception? I've already cited that scholars don't even agree on this, and yet you think you have the answer. The reason? "Because I said so", essentially.

I absolutely can accept that people would think that, like I said thats a valid point to make. I have said that I cannot prove that animals don't feel pain but I couldn't disagree anymore than I do with the idea.

That would have been obvious if you didn't take what I said completely out of context, seriously, I did not imply that the idea was automatically incorrect at all.

Dark Lugia 2
19-10-10, 23:18
Wait, what's there to suggest that she was in a perfectly normal mental state? It says she was quite stressed about her father dying, and stress would affect different people in different ways. She might not have been thinking clearly.

I've been thinking that from the start, I thought that was obvious? :o

I love how a lot of people (on here and outside this forum) say animals should be treated with the same respect as humans, and yet half these people arent vegetarian or anything like that. We're equal to animals, but we kill and eat them. Wheres the respect in that?

BTW i know that humans are technically animals, but its late at night and I cant think of anything to call anything that aint human :p

TRfan23
19-10-10, 23:26
Why should we care more about animals then our own species, if they don't care any more about us?

If they're trying to stay alive for survival for their own benefit, why shan't we?

So if I saw my favourite animal (Cat) & a Toddler in pain and I could only rescue one over the other. I'd rescue the Toddler:

a. Because it's part of our species.
b. He could achieve something amazing in the future, like Stephen Hawking. Thus improve and contribute to society.
c. Because he's more important.
d. He's less likely to survive then a cat.

My 2 cents ;)

btw - Don't think I'm supporting animal abuse ;)

Edit - Everyone's been changing their avatars lately, I may consider changing mine :p

Love2Raid
19-10-10, 23:27
I've been thinking that from the start, I thought that was obvious? :o

I love how a lot of people (on here and outside this forum) say animals should be treated with the same respect as humans, and yet half these people arent vegetarian or anything like that. We're equal to animals, but we kill and eat them. Wheres the respect in that?

BTW i know that humans are technically animals, but its late at night and I cant think of anything to call anything that aint human :p
This is different. Cows etc are supposed to be taken care of in a good way. Yes, I know their only purpose in life is to provide us with milk, cheese, meat etc, but in an ideal situation they are not supposed to suffer (I know the situation is often far from ideal, but that's not the point here). They are killed, I know, but in a way that causes the least trauma/pain.

What this woman did was pointless torture, you can't compare these situations.

voltz
19-10-10, 23:32
This is different. Cows etc are supposed to be taken care of in a good way. Yes, I know their only purpose in life is to provide us with milk, cheese, meat etc, but in an ideal situation they are not supposed to suffer (I know the situation is often far from ideal, but that's not the point here). They are killed, I know, but in a way that causes the least trauma/pain

I worked in a meat packing plant and honestly, the "kosher" way of killing cows is anything but painless.

SkyPuppy
19-10-10, 23:34
Yes, and then this toddler grows up to be a leech, causing their parents possible misery... alot of kids do this. An animal only wants to be fed and loved, while on the other hand... a toddler poops, cries, wants to waste money on toys, smells worse than an animal half the time, and then repeats him/herself til they get old enough to wanna spend more money their parents most likely don't have.

Hairhelmet12
19-10-10, 23:35
This good news :D
Servers her right what she did.

Love2Raid
19-10-10, 23:41
I worked in a meat packing plant and honestly, the "kosher" way of killing cows is anything but painless.
Yeah, I can imagine that. :/

Though if you like it or not, there is some point in it. They aren't killed just for the sake of it, but to feed us. That's the difference. You can still say that they are harmed and that animals don't deserve to be used like that by us. I wish you good luck in your fight against the bio-industry in that case.

voltz
20-10-10, 00:46
Yeah, I can imagine that. :/

Though if you like it or not, there is some point in it. They aren't killed just for the sake of it, but to feed us. That's the difference. You can still say that they are harmed and that animals don't deserve to be used like that by us. I wish you good luck in your fight against the bio-industry in that case.

Understanding the whole situation regarding things, I quit this fight a long, long time ago.

Smog
20-10-10, 00:50
Christ, she's like the Susan Boyle of putting cats in dustbins. Now please excuse me while I drown these orphaned puppies in sulphuric acid, I'll just be a second.

Love2Raid
20-10-10, 01:08
Understanding the whole situation regarding things, I quit this fight a long, long time ago.
Could you tell a bit about this? You don't have to if you don't want to of course. :o
I know it has nothing to do with this woman/cat but it's far more interesting.

Paddy
20-10-10, 01:12
meh nevermind

SkyPuppy
20-10-10, 01:16
Such as?? I think a fine was sufficient, fair enough she shouldnt have done it in the first place but a fine is sufficient enough, the cat didnt die or anything.

Paddy, no offense to you or Hayley, but I just see that question as adding more fuel to the fire that has already been started in this thread. >_<

Paddy
20-10-10, 01:22
I dont think it was gonna add to the fire, it was a reasonable question but fine have it your way :p

lara c. fan
20-10-10, 07:05
Yes, and then this toddler grows up to be a leech, causing their parents possible misery... alot of kids do this. An animal only wants to be fed and loved, while on the other hand... a toddler poops, cries, wants to waste money on toys, smells worse than an animal half the time, and then repeats him/herself til they get old enough to wanna spend more money their parents most likely don't have.

Animals poop too... :p

Well, that's up to the parent to say no, to the last part.

Ceamonks890
20-10-10, 07:35
About time that cruel woman got what she deserved:mad:

Mikky
20-10-10, 10:39
The fine she got was way too low. My cat was outraged when she heard the news. :p

Seriously, though, that woman deserved a harsher punishment.

Miharu
20-10-10, 11:32
There's a thread about a cat created approx. every 4.5 minutes in GC. I'd just get used to it.



And this is just stupid.

My exact words.

Sure, she may have thrown a cat into the bin and she shouldn't have done it at all but...She was going through a rough time in her life, her father was dying and she was under stress(?). Or maybe not...

But still, saying she's worse than Hitler is ****ing idiotic...Hitler ordered the killing of millions of jewish people, homosexuals etc...and a woman just happens to throw 1 cat into the bin and she's suddenly the most evil woman on the planet...

Heh and to add to my point, hundreds of animals are abused even worse than that stupid cat was. Like dogs in China/Korea they suffocate dogs because they believe the more they suffer the tastier they are...

Oh wait, there not so evil. Yet all I have to do is get caught on tape and throw a cat into a bin and i'm the worse human being on the planet.

Infact I feel sorry for the woman more than the cat.

cezy rockeru
20-10-10, 11:36
She was mean when she did that thing,now she's punished,but she can't be worse than Hitles,wtf:pi:

Ikas90
20-10-10, 12:42
Oh who could have known this thread would have turned into an Animals vs. Humans debate. :rolleyes: It gets annoying how several people disregard animal rights, but when something happens to a human, people deem it as much more important. It's disgusting if you ask me. There, tables are turned. How do you like it? :rolleyes:

People like to be cruel to animals because they feel the need to show that they're more powerful and more advanced than an animal. What better way to do that than to hurt something that is unable to defend itself?

If you are going to hurt an animal to make yourself look more important, then you deserve the same penalty as you would had you done it to a human.

Treating animals as lesser beings is just downright a form of egotism.

cezy rockeru
20-10-10, 12:45
Oh who could have known this thread would have turned into an Animals vs. Humans debate.

That would be a great game too!:whi:

Paddy
20-10-10, 12:45
Harming any form of life animal or human is ****ed up.

LNSNHGTDS
20-10-10, 13:06
Finally!!!

cezy rockeru
20-10-10, 13:07
Finally!!!

I wish someone throw her in the bin :whi: and then ask her how she felt:pi:

Paddy
20-10-10, 13:11
^^ Thatd be pretty funny.

SkyPuppy
20-10-10, 13:24
Oh who could have known this thread would have turned into an Animals vs. Humans debate. :rolleyes: It gets annoying how several people disregard animal rights, but when something happens to a human, people deem it as much more important. It's disgusting if you ask me. There, tables are turned. How do you like it? :rolleyes:

People like to be cruel to animals because they feel the need to show that they're more powerful and more advanced than an animal. What better way to do that than to hurt something that is unable to defend itself?

If you are going to hurt an animal to make yourself look more important, then you deserve the same penalty as you would had you done it to a human.

Treating animals as lesser beings is just downright a form of egotism.


Quoted for a reason. This deserves to be on this page.

Lara's Nemesis
20-10-10, 13:34
^

What about people who shoot rabbits, deer etc. should they be jailed? :p

I am an animal lover and would never hurt or kill any of them but this case with this woman has been blown out of all proportion. There are far worse cases of animal cruelty committed every day unfortunately.:(

SkyPuppy
20-10-10, 13:47
^

What about people who shoot rabbits, deer etc. should they be jailed? :p

I am an animal lover and would never hurt or kill any of them but this case with this woman has been blown out of all proportion. There are far worse cases of animal cruelty committed every day unfortunately.:(

People who do that need a smack upside the head, in my opinion. I am highly against that crap.

Lara's Nemesis
20-10-10, 13:50
People who do that need a smack upside the head, in my opinion. I am highly against that crap.

I don't approve of people doing it for fun either, I can understand why farmers need to shoot rabbits and other pests tho.

Ikas90
20-10-10, 13:55
^

What about people who shoot rabbits, deer etc. should they be jailed? :p

I am an animal lover and would never hurt or kill any of them but this case with this woman has been blown out of all proportion. There are far worse cases of animal cruelty committed every day unfortunately.:(

If it's for survival purposes, it's acceptable. It's the natural cycle. We all have to eat. No one escapes this.

But hurting/killing an animal for fun is entirely different.

chobits743
20-10-10, 13:56
Good. If they said she looked around to see if anyone was watching, she clearly knew what she was doing was not right.

Stories like this angers me deeply because I actually got my 2 cats from a box that was placed near a street full of traffic. It is common for people to abandon pets in the cruelest ways around my area. If I can, I try to help as many animals as I can, for their sake. :)

Sgt BOMBULOUS
20-10-10, 13:57
^

What about people who shoot rabbits, deer etc. should they be jailed? :p

I am an animal lover and would never hurt or kill any of them but this case with this woman has been blown out of all proportion. There are far worse cases of animal cruelty committed every day unfortunately.:(

In some areas deer have no natural predators. Without some means to control their populations they would face something more along the lines of famine if unchecked. I dunno about you, but a quick & easy death sounds better than starving to death, and it's still better than the kind of end that pack wolves or mountain lions would give them (I'll spare you the details of that).

SkyPuppy
20-10-10, 13:59
I don't approve of people doing it for fun either, I can understand why farmers need to shoot rabbits and other pests tho.

Well, I'm not going to try and get into an argument with you, I am just going to say I disagree. I adore rabbits; they're my favorite, so of course I don't wanna see them harmed in any way... that actually goes the same for any animal, too.

Lara's Nemesis
20-10-10, 14:04
In some areas deer have no natural predators. Without some means to control their populations they would face something more along the lines of famine if unchecked. I dunno about you, but a quick & easy death sounds better than starving to death, and it's still better than the kind of end that pack wolves or mountain lions would give them (I'll spare you the details of that).

Yeah I understand that and don't have a problem with it, I personally couldn't do it tho.

Well, I'm not going to try and get into an argument with you, I am just going to say I disagree. I adore rabbits; they're my favorite, so of course I don't wanna see them harmed in any way... that actually goes the same for any animal, too.


That's fair enough.

Paddy
20-10-10, 14:05
In some areas deer have no natural predators. Without some means to control their populations they would face something more along the lines of famine if unchecked. I dunno about you, but a quick & easy death sounds better than starving to death, and it's still better than the kind of end that pack wolves or mountain lions would give them (I'll spare you the details of that).

Thats an interesting point, think its a good one too.

mudkip25
20-10-10, 14:08
***** deserves it :D

chobits743
20-10-10, 14:09
In some areas deer have no natural predators. Without some means to control their populations they would face something more along the lines of famine if unchecked. I dunno about you, but a quick & easy death sounds better than starving to death, and it's still better than the kind of end that pack wolves or mountain lions would give them (I'll spare you the details of that).

I have to agree with this, simply because it is true. In Tennessee, and many other states, we face an epidemic of deer in the spring. Deer hunting is actually encouraged because there are so many and they pose a threat to drivers and residents alike.

My uncle actually had a wreck not too long ago involving a deer running into the road head on into his truck. He`s lucky to be alive, the deer came straight through the windshield into the passenger seat, which was luckily empty.

Not to mention, I just looked out my kitchen window to see about 4 deer in a neighboring field. :D

Simochka
20-10-10, 14:18
As a human it means more to me if a random human is feeling pain than a random animal. Surely even you can understand that?

Not everyone does. I feel more sympathy for a cat who's getting kicked at then a human who's getting tortured for many years.

Why? A cat can't protect itself against a human while a human can.

And no humans aren't more important. Without animals there wouldn't be humans. without humans there would be even more animals. Humans aren't worth a thing. We only live our pointless life that's about school, work, food and sleep. Then we die.

Now I don't say that animals are more important and humans are worthless. I think we are equal with all other life on this planet.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
20-10-10, 14:22
Not everyone does. I feel more sympathy for a cat who's getting kicked at then a human who's getting tortured for many years.

Why? A cat can't protect itself against a human while a human can.

And no humans aren't more important. Without animals there wouldn't be humans. without humans there would be even more animals. Humans aren't worth a thing. We only live our pointless life that's about school, work, food and sleep. Then we die.

Now I don't say that animals are more important and humans are worthless. I think we are equal with all other life on this planet.

Humans aren't worth a thing. We only live our pointless life that's about school, work, food and sleep. Then we die.

And


Now I don't say that animals are more important and humans are worthless. I think we are equal with all other life on this planet.

Did you transition between personalities from one paragraph to the next?

Miharu
20-10-10, 14:24
Humans aren't worth a thing. We only live our pointless life that's about school, work, food and sleep. Then we die.

Now I don't say that animals are more important and humans are worthless. I think we are equal with all other life on this planet.

Did you just change your mind...or?

Simochka
20-10-10, 14:29
lol my mistake. Well ignore the "Humans aren't worth a thing."


Did you transition between personalities from one paragraph to the next?

Maybe

Ikas90
20-10-10, 14:29
To be honest, we as an intelligent species were supposed to be able to take care of the earth.

All we've become is the cancer of the planet.

Animals have done absolutely nothing wrong; therefore they deserve more sympathy if they're getting tortured. It's the same deal if you compare a murderer and a saint. If they were both to be tortured, would you feel more sorry for the saint, or the murderer?

Miharu
20-10-10, 14:33
To be honest, we as an intelligent species were supposed to be able to take care of the earth.

All we've become is the cancer of the planet.

Animals have done absolutely nothing wrong; therefore they deserve more sympathy if they're getting tortured. It's the same deal if you compare a murderer and a saint. If they were both to be tortured, would you feel more sorry for the saint, or the murderer?

While I sometimes think the murderer deserves it, enjoying the fact that he (or she...) was tortured just makes us as bad as the murderer IMO.

I'd feel more sorry for the saint but I wouldn't feel like the murderer exactly deserves it TBH.

Mad Tony
20-10-10, 14:42
Not everyone does. I feel more sympathy for a cat who's getting kicked at then a human who's getting tortured for many years.That's quite shocking really.

And no humans aren't more important. Without animals there wouldn't be humans. without humans there would be even more animals. Humans aren't worth a thing. We only live our pointless life that's about school, work, food and sleep. Then we die.

Now I don't say that animals are more important and humans are worthless. I think we are equal with all other life on this planet.Cool contradiction there. Make your mind up.

It gets annoying how several people disregard animal rightsI don't believe anyone in this thread so far has disregarded animal rights. Nobody has condoned what this woman did. You can hold humans in a higher regard while at the same time think animals need protection.

If you are going to hurt an animal to make yourself look more important, then you deserve the same penalty as you would had you done it to a human.So you think someone who say, kills a rat, deserves life in prison or at least a fairly long prison sentence?

Treating animals as lesser beings is just downright a form of egotism.They are lesser beings, but that doesn't mean people like to mistreat them either.

All we've become is the cancer of the planet.How so?

Also comparing us to murderers and animals to saints is absolutely ridiculous but I wouldn't even bother trying to argue with you there.

Paddy
20-10-10, 14:46
Id be equally shocked seeing either human or animal being tortured. Anyone who gets enjoyment out of torturing a human or seeing any animal in pain is a sick gutless individual.

Mad Tony
20-10-10, 14:47
I'm more shocked at a human being tortured because I think doing it to your own kind is much worse but at the same time I would be shocked at seeing an animal tortured too.

Cue the "you hate animals" remarks.

Ikas90
20-10-10, 15:02
So you think someone who say, kills a rat, deserves life in prison or at least a fairly long prison sentence?

They are lesser beings, but that doesn't mean people like to mistreat them either.

A rat is a poor example. They are considered pests. However, if you go out of your way to torture that animal and cause as much pain to it as possible, you deserve some kind of proper punishment.

If you harm animals for fun, and if you harm people for fun; getting punished is what you deserve.

How so?

Also comparing us to murderers and animals to saints is absolutely ridiculous but I wouldn't even bother trying to argue with you there.

Trust you to ask that question.

No, it's not ridiculous. It's a legitimate perspective. You just aren't capable of producing a valid argument against it, because you don't even try to gain an understanding of humanity. You choose to ignore the fact that we are destroying this planet, and that the earth would be better off without humans.

But saying that, I guess the proper thing to do would be to go and kill myself. ;) Because I am being a hypocrite, aren't I? ;) ;) ;)

Sgt BOMBULOUS
20-10-10, 15:08
Another thing I was thinking about... People keep talking ad nauseum about this cat "suffering". When did the cat suffer? It might have been bored while it was in the bin, but I can't see how any physical pain was inflicted on it. People here talk as if she threw it into a wood-chipper.

Mad Tony
20-10-10, 15:33
If you harm animals for fun, and if you harm people for fun; getting punished is what you deserve.I'm not debating that. However, you should not get a life sentence for murdering a cat or a dog.

No, it's not ridiculous. It's a legitimate perspective. You just aren't capable of producing a valid argument against it, because you don't even try to gain an understanding of humanity. You choose to ignore the fact that we are destroying this planet, and that the earth would be better off without humans.You have a very one-sided view on the subject. You only see the bad in humans.

But saying that, I guess the proper thing to do would be to go and kill myself. ;) Because I am being a hypocrite, aren't I? ;) ;) ;)While I would never want you to do that you do harp on a lot about how much of a plague we supposedly are on the Earth, so it is a bit hypocritical when at the same time you are alive. After all, you are contributing to this so called destruction.

Of course going off and killing yourself is a bit extreme, but I would definitely recommend you go off and live in the outback and avoid using any kind of technology.

Forwen
20-10-10, 15:41
I once accidently ran over a bird while on bike... What do you call that? Manslaughter? Birdslaughter? Gotta appreciate the inherent newspeak potential :O

Mad Tony
20-10-10, 15:42
I once accidently ran over a bird while on bike... What do you call that? Manslaughter? Birdslaughter? Gotta appreciate the inherent newspeak potential :ODeath by dangerous driving. Humans and animals are equals and thus you should get a good 5-10 years in prison.

Killer.

Forwen
20-10-10, 15:47
^ Do bear with me while I'm packing my bags and booking a flight to Brazil.

SkyPuppy
20-10-10, 15:49
Death by dangerous driving. Humans and animals are equals and thus you should get a good 5-10 years in prison.

Killer.

Aw, is that what you've resorted to? Distasteful.

Ikas90
20-10-10, 15:57
I'm not debating that. However, you should not get a life sentence for murdering a cat or a dog.

You have a very one-sided view on the subject. You only see the bad in humans.

While I would never want you to do that you do harp on a lot about how much of a plague we supposedly are on the Earth, so it is a bit hypocritical when at the same time you are alive. After all, you are contributing to this so called destruction.

Of course going off and killing yourself is a bit extreme, but I would definitely recommend you go off and live in the outback and avoid using any kind of technology.

You probably shouldn't get a life sentence for murdering a human either. It depends on the severity for both cases. If you cause as much pain to the other as possible, to the animal or to the human, a life sentence isn't completely out of the question.

Yeah, because the human race is bad. It's the way we are. Of course I am contributing to the destruction of the planet. But at least I acknowledge it. Acknowledgment alone gives us the opportunity to change, however, a lot of people literally do not believe in global warming; so not much is going to change.

I can't go and live in the outback, because I already know that I am too weak to live that kind of lifestyle. I'm too used to living the standard life of modern society. But if we were all living off nature to begin with, there'd be no chaos.

I've learned to accept that this is just the way the human race is. I certainly don't hate it. I just know that humanity sucks. Nothing I can do about it.

Mad Tony
20-10-10, 15:59
You probably shouldn't get a life sentence for murdering a human either. It depends on the severity for both cases. If you cause as much pain to the other as possible, to the animal or to the human, a life sentence isn't completely out of the question.I'm glad you're not in charge of the justice system.

Yeah, because the human race is bad. It's the way we are. Of course I am contributing to the destruction of the planet. But at least I acknowledge it. Acknowledgment alone gives us the opportunity to change, however, a lot of people literally do not believe in global warming; so not much is going to change.The human race can be good too, something you fail to admit.

Global warming is a very hotly debated issue. There are no clear facts.

I can't go and live in the outback, because I already know that I am too weak to live that kind of lifestyle. I'm too used to living the standard life of modern society.That makes you a hypocrite.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
20-10-10, 16:07
I'm glad you're not in charge of the justice system.

The human race can be good too, something you fail to admit.

Global warming is a very hotly debated issue. There are no clear facts.

That makes you a hypocrite.

Love the irony...

Ikas90
20-10-10, 16:08
I'm glad you're not in charge of the justice system.

The human race can be good too, something you fail to admit.

Global warming is a very hotly debated issue. There are no clear facts.

That makes you a hypocrite.

Good. Because I have low tolerance for people who committ crimes.

We aren't good though, and I explained why in my post.

Global warming has lots of evidence. I'm inclined to believe that people just choose to ignore that it's there.

No, it doesn't, and I explained why in my post.

Tony9595
20-10-10, 16:12
This thread makes me want to go out and do the same thing this woman did.

SkyPuppy
20-10-10, 16:16
This thread makes me want to go out and do the same thing this woman did.

This post makes me want to do the same thing to you.

Mad Tony
20-10-10, 16:27
Good. Because I have low tolerance for people who committ crimes.Don't we all? Your problem is is that you seem to have little perspective, at least when comparing animals and humans.

We aren't good though, and I explained why in my post.We're not bad either. We're somewhere in the middle as we can both be good and bad.

Global warming has lots of evidence. I'm inclined to believe that people just choose to ignore that it's there.Lots of counter evidence too. I'm not arguing against global warming (or for it) I just don't think it should be taken as absolute fact.

No, it doesn't, and I explained why in my post.Yes it does. You go out there and adapt. At the very least you should stop using the computer and other luxury items as you said yourself you believe all technology is killing the world.

Catapharact
20-10-10, 16:36
And this is just stupid.

How much do you wanna bet that about 90% of those gimps are against the death penelty when it comes to human on human crimes ;)?

Ikas90
20-10-10, 16:39
Don't we all? Your problem is is that you seem to have little perspective, at least when comparing animals and humans.

We're not bad either. We're somewhere in the middle as we can both be good and bad.

Lots of counter evidence too. I'm not arguing against global warming (or for it) I just don't think it should be taken as absolute fact.

Yes it does. You go out there and adapt. At the very least you should stop using the computer and other luxury items as you said yourself you believe all technology is killing the world.

Nope, I'm being fair when it comes to putting animals and humans on a more equal level.

We can be good, but that's only by our standards. It's not as good as we could be.

Fair enough.

Again, it doesn't make me a hypocrite. I at least understand the flaws of humanity. I can't change, because I can't live without technology. I rely on it, thanks to the way humanity has evolved. So it's not necessarily me that's to blame. It's humanity as a whole. Because we evolved to need technology to make lives easier for ourselves, it has affected all onward generations of people. What do you expect me to do to change that?

If I went out and lived in the bush, I'd probably die. The human species has become too weak to be able to live off the laws of nature.

lara c. fan
20-10-10, 16:41
Oh who could have known this thread would have turned into an Animals vs. Humans debate. :rolleyes: It gets annoying how several people disregard animal rights, but when something happens to a human, people deem it as much more important. It's disgusting if you ask me. There, tables are turned. How do you like it? :rolleyes:

People like to be cruel to animals because they feel the need to show that they're more powerful and more advanced than an animal. What better way to do that than to hurt something that is unable to defend itself?

If you are going to hurt an animal to make yourself look more important, then you deserve the same penalty as you would had you done it to a human.

Treating animals as lesser beings is just downright a form of egotism.

I'm sure some species of animal wouldn't give a **** about us, and deem their species much more important. How's that any different, then?

Ikas90
20-10-10, 16:45
I'm sure some species of animal wouldn't give a **** about us, and deem their species much more important. How's that any different, then?

That's valid, because we don't deserve to be cared about by animals.

Animals may only care about themselves, but at least they're not harming anything else by doing so.

Mad Tony
20-10-10, 16:46
Nope, I'm being fair when it comes to putting animals and humans on a more equal level.Saying you'd give a person torturing an animal the same prison sentence as a person torturing a human if a similar amount of pain was inflicted in both cases is not fair at all.

Again, it doesn't make me a hypocrite. I at least understand the flaws of humanity. I can't change, because I can't live without technology. I rely on it, thanks to the way humanity has evolved. So it's not necessarily me that's to blame. It's humanity as a whole. Because we evolved to need technology to make lives easier for ourselves, it has affected all onward generations of people. What do you expect me to do to change that?You don't need the internet. You don't need a TV. You could live a simple life and going by your philosophy you wouldn't be harming the world as much.

If I went out and lived in the bush, I'd probably die.No big deal I guess. After all, we're the cancer of the earth. It would be good for all those animals.

Animals may only care about themselves, but at least they're not harming anything else by doing so.Actually, animals aren't perfect either. They kill and eat each other and let's not forget they also kill and attack people too. It works both ways.

lara c. fan
20-10-10, 16:49
That's valid, because we don't deserve to be cared about by animals.

Animals may only care about themselves, but at least they're not harming anything else by doing so.

We're animals. If you're saying that's OK, why isn't it OK for us to do so? Do they deserve to be cared for by us?

But aren't you saying we're terrible for only caring for ourselves? Why should animals get special treatment? I thought we were equal in your terms.

Also, don't get me wrong. I love animals. But I think everyone is blowing up one hell of a storm that really isn't needed.

moodydog
20-10-10, 16:49
tbh i couldn't really care less about this...

I am all for animal protection, but where is the real news :pi:

What really annoys me is...

'she is worse than hitler'

Hitler killed many innocent people, tortured innocent people, was a racist fascist, forced mothers to choose between their young ect

She put a cat in the bin...

Ikas90
20-10-10, 16:51
Saying you'd give a person torturing an animal the same prison sentence as a person torturing a human if a similar amount of pain was inflicted in both cases is not fair at all.

You don't need the internet. You don't need a TV. You could live a simple life and going by your philosophy you wouldn't be harming the world as much.

If you put it that way, then say said person tortures an animal; What's to stop him from doing the same to a human? People like that are sick.

We need jobs, we need money. We need cars to get to our jobs. We need money to survive. That's modern society.

No big deal I guess. After all, we're the cancer of the earth. It would be good for all those animals.

You are correct.

Ikas90
20-10-10, 16:54
We're animals. If you're saying that's OK, why isn't it OK for us to do so? Do they deserve to be cared for by us?

But aren't you saying we're terrible for only caring for ourselves? Why should animals get special treatment? I thought we were equal in your terms.

Also, don't get me wrong. I love animals. But I think everyone is blowing up one hell of a storm that really isn't needed.

Because by only caring about ourselves, we are actually harming the environment. This includes other animals.

Animals are capable of caring about themselves without harming the cycle of mother nature.

Actually, animals aren't perfect either. They kill and eat each other and let's not forget they also kill and attack people too. It works both ways.

That is the natural way of things. There's nothing wrong with killing for survival; it's nature intended.

And animals that attack humans are likely domesticated. Domestication isn't natural.

Mad Tony
20-10-10, 16:56
If you put it that way, then say said person tortures an animal; What's to stop him from doing the same to a human? People like that are sick.So you think a person torturing an animal should be put away for the same time as someone who tortured a human simply because they might torture a human in future? That's ridiculous.

It's like giving someone who committed assault a life sentence because they might kill someone in the future.

We need jobs, we need money. We need cars to get to our jobs. We need money to survive. That's modern society.You don't need the things I listed.

You are correct.And this is why I believe you're a hypocrite for not offing yourself.

moodydog
20-10-10, 16:56
We're animals. If you're saying that's OK, why isn't it OK for us to do so? Do they deserve to be cared for by us?

But aren't you saying we're terrible for only caring for ourselves? Why should animals get special treatment? I thought we were equal in your terms.

Also, don't get me wrong. I love animals. But I think everyone is blowing up one hell of a storm that really isn't needed.

thats EXACTLY what I feel!

Ikas90
20-10-10, 16:59
So you think a person torturing an animal should be put away for the same time as someone who tortured a human simply because they might torture a human in future? That's ridiculous.

It's like giving someone who committed assault a life sentence because they might kill someone in the future.

You don't need the things I listed.

And this is why I believe you're a hypocrite for not offing yourself.

You believe that way, only because you place humans above animals.

Ok, we need food, air and water. But we need money to be able to buy food and water.

And I already explained to you that we can't live off the laws of nature, because of how humanity has evolved. It looks like you're blaming me for the way humanity is.

Forwen
20-10-10, 17:39
Ok, we need food, air and water. But we need money to be able to buy food and water.



Mad Tony is actually making a valid point about the Internet which you're clearly avoiding. Do you need the Internet to survive? Please don't retort by saying you're not harming the environment with it; it relies on thousands upon thousands miles of cables laid across the oceans to operate. Data centres of large players like Microsoft require power measured in tens of megawatts to operate, and even if you set up a windmill farm to offset it (Google want to be carbon neutral), the windmills can have adverse effects on the local bird populations. I'd tell you to google for more, but... you know.

Mad Tony
20-10-10, 17:48
You believe that way, only because you place humans above animals.We are above animals.

Ok, we need food, air and water. But we need money to be able to buy food and water.You don't need all these luxury items like TVs, computers and so forth.

And I already explained to you that we can't live off the laws of nature, because of how humanity has evolved. It looks like you're blaming me for the way humanity is.We could actually. It would be tough and people would die (that's a good thing from your point of view though) but we can still do it. Plenty of people live "by the laws of nature" even today.

I'm not blaming you for the way humanity is, I'm saying you're hypocritical because you have all these wacky ideas about humanity but wont do anything about it yourself.

Ikas90
20-10-10, 17:59
Mad Tony is actually making a valid point about the Internet which you're clearly avoiding. Do you need the Internet to survive? Please don't retort by saying you're not harming the environment with it; it relies on thousands upon thousands miles of cables laid across the oceans to operate. Data centres of large players like Microsoft require energy measured in megawatts to operate, and even if you set up a windmill farm to offset it (Google want to be carbon neutral), the windmills can have adverse effects on the local bird populations. I'd tell you to google for more, but... you know.

The internet has become a vital part of my life, which leads me back to my point of society having that influence on me, as that's how humanity has evolved and I happen to live in that era where technology dominates our lives, like it does with several other people. It's not necessary for survival, and I don't believe I said it was.

Nowadays, it is necessary in some jobs. The whole existence of money is the base of problems.

We are above animals.

You don't need all these luxury items like TVs, computers and so forth.

We could actually. It would be tough and people would die (that's a good thing from your point of view though) but we can still do it. Plenty of people live "by the laws of nature" even today.

I'm not blaming you for the way humanity is, I'm saying you're hypocritical because you have all these wacky ideas about humanity but wont do anything about it yourself.

If you think we are above animals, it does not mean they don't deserve any less sympathy for being mistreated.

Those people who live off the laws of nature are either born into that lifestyle, and/or they are stronger minded than us. I have respect for them.

But again, you missed my point. My point is that it's not hypocritical, because it's not my fault that I was born into this lifestyle. I didn't choose to be born in a modern, urbanised part of the world. I could have been born as anyone else.

Anyway, I'm going to bed. I'll continue this tomorrow if I can be bothered lol. :)

Mad Tony
20-10-10, 18:07
The internet has become a vital part of my life, which leads me back to my point of society having that influence on me, as that's how humanity has evolved and I happen to live in that era where technology dominates our lives, like it does with several other people. It's not necessary for survival, and I don't believe I said it was.You don't need the internet.

Nowadays, it is necessary in some jobs. The whole existence of money is the base of problems.What do you propose we use instead?

Those people who live off the laws of nature are either born into that lifestyle, and/or they are stronger minded than us. I have respect for them.Have we unearthed the one set of humans you don't despise and think are a plague on the Earth?

But again, you missed my point. My point is that it's not hypocritical, because it's not my fault that I was born into this lifestyle. I didn't choose to be born in a modern, urbanised part of the world. I could have been born as anyone else.You could do something about it but you wont.

xXhayleyroxXx
20-10-10, 18:57
Geez, what happened in here when I was away!?
In all seriousness, I think Mary needs help because she obviously isn't right in the head. I'm not being mean or anything but it would be in her best interests. I'm glad she's being fined but her life, and everyone else's lives (including animals) would be improved by her gaining help.

Forwen
20-10-10, 18:58
The internet has become a vital part of my life, which leads me back to my point of society having that influence on me, as that's how humanity has evolved and I happen to live in that era where technology dominates our lives, like it does with several other people. It's not necessary for survival, and I don't believe I said it was.

Nowadays, it is necessary in some jobs. The whole existence of money is the base of problems.

So people using the internet in their job do so in order to earn money, ie. to survive, ie. they are just like animals in that respect. Since according to what you said you - or any other individual - are not responsible for what you have to do to survive (ie. you HAVE to stay within modern society), but are forced to do so by The Man, and considering the human population is the sum of its individuals, all seeking their survival, then humanity as a whole can't be blamed (in some moral sense you seem to be using) for the damage to the environment, as you claimed before.

As for your chances of survival in the nature, no one says you should don a loincloth and walk out barefoot into the outback tomorrow. You could start by joining a backpacker club; learn to survive on basic utensils and gain experience over the years. Learn to recognise edible plants in your area; maybe get a gun licence and learn to hunt, and over time to skin your catch to not rely on artificial clothing anymore. And you don't have to be that basic - I'm sure you can get a solar powered GPS somewhere lol.

Ikas90
21-10-10, 02:51
You don't need the internet.

What do you propose we use instead?

Have we unearthed the one set of humans you don't despise and think are a plague on the Earth?

You could do something about it but you wont.

Instead of arguing with you (because I'm just repeating myself and it seems to be going nowhere), I'm just going to ask why you place the value of humans so far above that of animals.

And to say I'm hypocritical for believing the human race should be the way I think it should be, is just like saying I'm hypocritical for worshipping God, when I can't anything near as powerful as God. Sure, I can say God is greater than all of us, and you can say "If you think God is so great, and that we are so imperfect compared to him, why don't you try being perfect like him before judging us?" That's what it's like.

So people using the internet in their job do so in order to earn money, ie. to survive, ie. they are just like animals in that respect. Since according to what you said you - or any other individual - are not responsible for what you have to do to survive (ie. you HAVE to stay within modern society), but are forced to do so by The Man, and considering the human population is the sum of its individuals, all seeking their survival, then humanity as a whole can't be blamed (in some moral sense you seem to be using) for the damage to the environment, as you claimed before.

As for your chances of survival in the nature, no one says you should don a loincloth and walk out barefoot into the outback tomorrow. You could start by joining a backpacker club; learn to survive on basic utensils and gain experience over the years. Learn to recognise edible plants in your area; maybe get a gun licence and learn to hunt, and over time to skin your catch to not rely on artificial clothing anymore. And you don't have to be that basic - I'm sure you can get a solar powered GPS somewhere lol.

Pretty much what I mean. We need money to survive, just like animals need food to survive. The only problem with that theory is that animals don't need money for food. Animals don't have any medium of exchange to get greedy and corrupted over.

I'm implying that I think humans shouldn't have existed if atrocity is what they're capable of. If there is a God, he probably should never have created humans. From my point of view, humanity wasn't really necessary.

As for surviving in nature; you missed my point entirely. Everything you mentioned is unnatural.

Backpackers club - unnatural.
Gun licence - unnatural
Gun - unnatural
Solar powered GPS - unnatural

My whole point is, all living things should be completely and utterly in harmony with nature, and that's how it should have been. But we humans were selfish, and evolved to create things that would make things easier for ourselves. That's because we were weak, and it seems that we were illogically placed here. We're not in harmony with nature.

Our problem is, we're an intelligent species. So, this is the way we're meant to be. And I'm questioning if it was necessary at all for an intelligent race to exist. There'd probably be no point in not having it; and that's why I believe we were put here by something superior, be it a God or whatever you want to call it. If we're not in harmony with the universe, we were placed here for a purpose, be it an accident or whatnot.

And that purpose is probably something we will never know the answer to. Not you, or I, or any human on this planet is wise enough to be able to know the complete, correct answer.

It's funny how a discussion about putting a cat in a bin turned into a debate about the humanity and the great integrity, lol.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
21-10-10, 03:11
Instead of arguing with you (because I'm just repeating myself and it seems to be going nowhere), I'm just going to ask why you place the value of humans so far above that of animals.

And to say I'm hypocritical for believing the human race should be the way I think it should be, is just like saying I'm hypocritical for worshipping God, when I can't anything near as powerful as God. Sure, I can say God is greater than all of us, and you can say "If you think God is so great, and that we are so imperfect compared to him, why don't you try being perfect like him before judging us?" That's what it's like.



Pretty much what I mean. We need money to survive, just like animals need food to survive. The only problem with that theory is that animals don't need money for food. Animals don't have any medium of exchange to get greedy and corrupted over.

I'm implying that I think humans shouldn't have existed if atrocity is what they're capable of. If there is a God, he probably should never have created humans. From my point of view, humanity wasn't really necessary.

As for surviving in nature; you missed my point entirely. Everything you mentioned is unnatural.

Backpackers club - unnatural.
Gun licence - unnatural
Gun - unnatural
Solar powered GPS - unnatural

My whole point is, all living things should be completely and utterly in harmony with nature, and that's how it should have been. But we humans were selfish, and evolved to create things that would make things easier for ourselves. That's because we were weak, and it seems that we were illogically placed here. We're not in harmony with nature.

Our problem is, we're an intelligent species. So, this is the way we're meant to be. And I'm questioning if it was necessary at all for an intelligent race to exist. There'd probably be no point in not having it; and that's why I believe we were put here by something superior, be it a God or whatever you want to call it. If we're not in harmony with the universe, we were placed here for a purpose, be it an accident or whatnot.

And that purpose is probably something we will never know the answer to. Not you, or I, or any human on this planet is wise enough to be able to know the complete, correct answer.

It's funny how a discussion about putting a cat in a bin turned into a debate about the humanity and the great integrity, lol.

You seem to have gone to great lengths to come to your own conclusion. What else are we expected to say?

Paddy
21-10-10, 04:12
Humans are animals, they breathe air like animals do.

It's funny how a discussion about putting a cat in a bin turned into a debate about the humanity and the great integrity, lol.

It always does lol just like quite a few controversial topics turn into insults.

The lady should just cop a fine and thats it, nothing more, nothing less.

Spong
21-10-10, 04:37
It's funny how a discussion about putting a cat in a bin turned into a debate about the humanity and the great integrity, lol.

It always does lol just like quite a few controversial topics turn into insults.

I'm surprised Godwin's law hasn't reared its ugly head. I'm sure someone can make the jump from a woman stuffing some cat into a bin to Hitler.

Necromanser
21-10-10, 04:51
Geez, what happened in here when I was away!?
In all seriousness, I think Mary needs help because she obviously isn't right in the head. I'm not being mean or anything but it would be in her best interests. I'm glad she's being fined but her life, and everyone else's lives (including animals) would be improved by her gaining help.
What animals? She doesn't live in a damn jungle where there are animals everywhere around her, and I'm pretty sure that binning a cat doesn't make a person "[not] right in the head". It just shows that they do not value the wellbeing of animals as much as other people in this world.

****ing sick of the double-standards that some people have. So sending death threats to a person is more acceptable than binning a cat?

Oh and if you will argue that when humans are mauled by animals it's wrong because they can't "think" then you are contradicting yourselves. Reading some of the posts in this thread you'd think that animals can make rational decision( I for one do not)

This isn't such a huge deal I don't know why The Guardian even bothered printing an article about( as if there aren't any other important issues in the world to write about).

drakl0r
21-10-10, 04:55
What she did was wrong and cruel, but she's under stress and calling death penalty for that is too much IMO.

Tony9595
21-10-10, 04:55
Best post in this thread, Necromanser :tmb:

Paddy
21-10-10, 04:56
Agreed Necromanser :tmb:

Forwen
21-10-10, 08:41
As for surviving in nature; you missed my point entirely. Everything you mentioned is unnatural.

Backpackers club - unnatural.
Gun licence - unnatural
Gun - unnatural
Solar powered GPS - unnatural

My whole point is, all living things should be completely and utterly in harmony with nature, and that's how it should have been. But we humans were selfish, and evolved to create things that would make things easier for ourselves. That's because we were weak, and it seems that we were illogically placed here. We're not in harmony with nature.

I did not miss your point, I ignored a part of it because I think it's irrelevant. 'Unnatural'? So what? We could argue to death the meaning of the world 'natural' but I'm not interested in semantics, what matters is that it would gradually lessen your impact on the environment, and that it's not impossible to achieve.

Or you could, you know, just admit what Mad Tony implied...

Ikas90
21-10-10, 10:03
I did not miss your point, I ignored a part of it because I think it's irrelevant. 'Unnatural'? So what? We could argue to death the meaning of the world 'natural' but I'm not interested in semantics, what matters is that it would gradually lessen your impact on the environment, and that it's not impossible to achieve.

Or you could, you know, just admit what Mad Tony implied...

Well if you're not interested in the semantics, there's no real point to continue that part of the discussion. The best thing we can do is agree to disagree.

I could lessen my impact on the environment, but it's not going to affect humanity in the slightest. I'd be the only one at work. The environment is going to continue to be polluted, regardless. That's humanity's fault, and again, this is going to bring us back to the semantics.

Mad Tony
21-10-10, 10:15
Instead of arguing with you (because I'm just repeating myself and it seems to be going nowhere), I'm just going to ask why you place the value of humans so far above that of animals.Firstly, we are humans. Naturally I'm going to place my own species over another. Secondly, we are more important and more complex than them. I'm sure you value an animal more than a blade of grass so there's no reason not to value a human over an animal.

And to say I'm hypocritical for believing the human race should be the way I think it should be, is just like saying I'm hypocritical for worshipping God, when I can't anything near as powerful as God. Sure, I can say God is greater than all of us, and you can say "If you think God is so great, and that we are so imperfect compared to him, why don't you try being perfect like him before judging us?" That's what it's like.That doesn't really make sense. It's not like you can't do something about your perceived problem with the human race.

What is your obsession with "being in harmony with nature" anyway? You seem to be against all forms of technology even if they're not harming the environment. The worst thing about it is, you sit there going on about how we should at be at one with nature and here you are, sitting in your house in urban Australia using a computer and tons of other luxury items.

Paddy
21-10-10, 10:17
I'm surprised Godwin's law hasn't reared its ugly head. I'm sure someone can make the jump from a woman stuffing some cat into a bin to Hitler.

Whats really annoying is people comparing us to animals.
Humans are ****ing animals, they breathe air, they eat, they sleep etc.

Ikas90
21-10-10, 10:25
Firstly, we are humans. Naturally I'm going to place my own species over another. Secondly, we are more important and more complex than them. I'm sure you value an animal more than a blade of grass so there's no reason not to value a human over an animal.

That doesn't really make sense. It's not like you can't do something about your perceived problem with the human race.

What is your obsession with "being in harmony with nature" anyway? You seem to be against all forms of technology even if they're not harming the environment. The worst thing about it is, you sit there going on about how we should at be at one with nature and here you are, sitting in your house in urban Australia using a computer and tons of other luxury items.

Comparing humans and animals to animals and a blade of grass sounds rather heartless.

Yeah, I'd like to see somebody try to fix the problem with the human race. Not going to happen. And just because it can't happen, doesn't mean it's not the way we should be.

You're repeating yourself, and I'm repeating myself over and over again. I've provided all the examples that I could, stating that it's not hypocritical, but you don't seem to get it.

My point is, that if we were all in harmony with nature to begin with, none of this chaos would have ever happened. We wouldn't have corruption, greed, poverty, and other things. I cannot be in harmony with nature, because the way humanity has evolved doesn't allow me to; it's literally impossible.

I'm saying we should have fixed this problem WHILE it was fixable. Now, it's beyond repair.

jjbennett
21-10-10, 10:34
If she had a reason for doing it (the cat kept crapping on her lawn/brought things into HER house dead etc) it might be understandable at least, and outburst of something. But as she can't explain why im inclined to wonder whats going on in that empty head of hers. Some people are only alive as it's illegal to kill them...a prime candidate.

Mad Tony
21-10-10, 10:56
Comparing humans and animals to animals and a blade of grass sounds rather heartless.Not really. After all, grass is alive, why not hold it to the same value as animals?

You're repeating yourself, and I'm repeating myself over and over again. I've provided all the examples that I could, stating that it's not hypocritical, but you don't seem to get it.That's because it is hypocritical.

My point is, that if we were all in harmony with nature to begin with, none of this chaos would have ever happened. We wouldn't have corruption, greed, poverty, and other things. I cannot be in harmony with nature, because the way humanity has evolved doesn't allow me to; it's literally impossible.Actually, there would still be all of those things plus more. What, do you think the world was perfect in caveman times?

You can still do your bit but you wont. You wont give up those luxuries.

I'm saying we should have fixed this problem WHILE it was fixable. Now, it's beyond repair.What exactly is the problem? If it's humans being horrible to one another that's not fixable because it's human nature.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
21-10-10, 11:01
I think I'm gonna start a pool on when one of you finally gives up. From the looks of it, this could go on for weeks...

Ikas90
21-10-10, 11:09
Not really. After all, grass is alive, why not hold it to the same value as animals?

That's because it is hypocritical.

Actually, there would still be all of those things plus more. What you think the world was perfect in caveman times?

You can still do your bit but you wont. You wont give up those luxuries.

What exactly is the problem? If it's humans being horrible to one another that's not fixable because it's human nature.

Grass doesn't feel pain. Poor example.

I can only repeat myself, and provide more similar examples. You're implying that I'm not even allowed to say how the human race should be unless I can do it myself. What if I said people should be able to fly? I can't fly. Does that make me a hypocrite? Same thing.

The world wasn't perfect in caveman times; that's why we evolved. We evolved because there were still problems. Human nature, as you put it. With animals, there are no problems. And don't bring that "animals still kill eachother" point into it; it's completely natural to kill for survival, therefore it's not possible for it to be wrong in that case. I know animals kill humans for reasons other than survival too - these animals are domesticated, and domestication isn't natural.

We're going around in circles here, so I don't see any way that the discussion is going to go much further if it's going to stay within the circle.

I can still do my bit but it's not going to change anything.

The fact that you don't know what the problem is, is the problem. Yeah, it's in our nature to destroy ourselves. I'm saying that it shouldn't be in our nature to destroy ourselves. That doesn't make me a hypocrite.

I'm saying that human nature should be different. But it's not, and it's unchangeable. If anything, you should say that "I'm not one to decide how human nature should be", rather than "I'm a hypocrite". I'll accept that.

Mad Tony
21-10-10, 11:12
Grass doesn't feel pain. Poor example.So if something feels pain, it's equal with a human, if it doesn't, it isn't equal with a human (or animal)?

I can only repeat myself, and provide more similar examples. You're implying that I'm not even allowed to say how the human race should be unless I can do it myself. What if I said people should be able to fly? I can't fly. Does that make me a hypocrite? Same thing.What I'm saying here is that you're being hypocritical for saying how bad technology is while using it yourself. Sure, you have to use some technology but you certainly don't need the internet.

The world wasn't perfect in caveman times; that's why we evolved. We evolved because there were still problems. Human nature, as you put it. With animals, there are no problems. And don't bring that "animals still kill eachother" point into it; it's completely natural to kill for survival, therefore it's not possible for it to be wrong in that case. I know animals kill humans for reasons other than survival too - these animals are domesticated.Of course there are problems with animals. They kill and hurt each other for things other than survival.

I can still do my bit but it's not going to change anything.Then what's the point of people who believe eating meat is wrong going vegetarian?

Ikas90
21-10-10, 11:24
So if something feels pain, it's equal with a human, if it doesn't, it isn't equal with a human (or animal)?

What I'm saying here is that you're being hypocritical for saying how bad technology is while using it yourself. Sure, you have to use some technology but you certainly don't need the internet.

Of course there are problems with animals. They kill and hurt each other for things other than survival.

Then what's the point of people who believe eating meat is wrong going vegetarian?

However you want to look at it.

But as I said, I grew up in this era of time where technology dominates our lives. I'm too attached to the internet to give up on it. My fault? You decide.

I'm pretty sure if animals are killing eachother for reasons other than survival, human influence would have had something to do with it. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure animals don't have an imagination. They aren't an intelligent species. They aren't capable of "sin", if that's the word we should use for it. Animals don't have the capacity to choose to committ crimes - right and wrong doesn't even exist for them. The only reason right and wrong exists, is because of humans.

Eating meat isn't wrong though. It's not a crime. Actually, we're supposed to eat meat. It's natural. Nothing against vegetarians, by the way. That's their own choice. It doesn't really concern me.

Mad Tony
21-10-10, 11:58
However you want to look at it.I'm asking if that's how you look at it.

But as I said, I grew up in this era of time where technology dominates our lives. I'm too attached to the internet to give up on it. My fault? You decide.Doesn't matter if you're too attached to the internet. If you're going to condemn all technology the least you can do is stop using the internet to spread that view. After all, you don't need the internet to earn money and you certainly don't need it to live.

I'm pretty sure if animals are killing eachother for reasons other than survival, human influence would have had something to do with it. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure animals don't have an imagination. They aren't an intelligent species. They aren't capable of "sin", if that's the word we should use for it. Animals don't have the capacity to choose to committ crimes - right and wrong doesn't even exist for them. The only reason right and wrong exists, is because of humans.So you're telling me animals don't harm each other for anything other than survival? I can tell you from personal experience that this isn't true.

Eating meat isn't wrong though. It's not a crime. Actually, we're supposed to eat meat. It's natural. Nothing against vegetarians, by the way. That's their own choice. It doesn't really concern me.I never said eating meat was wrong. I was giving an example. You say you wont do anything because it wont make a difference, then why should people who think eating meat is wrong go vegetarian either?

Ikas90
21-10-10, 12:25
I'm asking if that's how you look at it.

Doesn't matter if you're too attached to the internet. If you're going to condemn all technology the least you can do is stop using the internet to spread that view. After all, you don't need the internet to earn money and you certainly don't need it to live.

So you're telling me animals don't harm each other for anything other than survival? I can tell you from personal experience that this isn't true.

I never said eating meat was wrong. I was giving an example. You say you wont do anything because it wont make a difference, then why should people who think eating meat is wrong go vegetarian either?

Well, yeah, that's how I see it. Animals can feel the same pain that we do.

Nah, pretty sure I need it to live. ;)

If it's from personal experience, then it's likely that the animals that you're talking about are domestic.

Going vegetarian makes a difference to society mostly; not so much to nature. Society needs vegetarians.

Paddy
21-10-10, 12:32
I dont see the net as being something relied on to live more it can make living easier :p
Easier means of communication so Id say its more then just a convenience thing.
How is this thread still about this debate lol

Ikas90
21-10-10, 12:40
I personally need the internet because I have friends on it lol.

Internet friendships aren't natural, true, but we might as well use technology if it's here. We'll just wait until the world blows up lol. :) :)

Anyway, I've already stated my views. I'll leave it there for interpretation. I refuse to continue.

Paddy
21-10-10, 12:41
I personally need the internet because I have friends on it lol.

Internet friendships aren't natural, true, but we might as well use technology if it's here. We'll just wait until the world blows up lol. :) :)

Anyway, I've already stated my views. I'll leave it there for interpretation.

You had some good opinions and I agree with the first part. I have a lot of friends on the net, some I know IRL including yourself.

Mad Tony
21-10-10, 12:47
Well, yeah, that's how I see it. Animals can feel the same pain that we do.What about people who can't feel pain?

If it's from personal experience, then it's likely that the animals that you're talking about are domestic.So? You don't think there are wild animals out there that don't hurt each other for things other than survival?

Going vegetarian makes a difference to society mostly; not so much to nature. Society needs vegetarians.One person doesn't make a difference. You saying you're not going to change your lifestyle to match your beliefs is the same as one person who thinks eating meat is wrong not stopping eating meat because they think it wont make a difference.

Forwen
21-10-10, 13:15
I'm pretty sure if animals are killing eachother for reasons other than survival, human influence would have had something to do with it. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure animals don't have an imagination. They aren't an intelligent species. They aren't capable of "sin", if that's the word we should use for it. Animals don't have the capacity to choose to committ crimes - right and wrong doesn't even exist for them. The only reason right and wrong exists, is because of humans.

This link might interest you: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/3323070/Killer-dolphins-baffle-marine-experts.html

Also male lions can kill a female's offspring in order to bang the mum. Wolves teach their young to hunt through surplus killing. The list goes on.

Mad Tony
21-10-10, 13:17
This link might interest you: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/3323070/Killer-dolphins-baffle-marine-experts.html

Also male lions can kill a female's offspring in order to bang the mum.But but, they do it for survival.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
21-10-10, 14:22
This link might interest you: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/3323070/Killer-dolphins-baffle-marine-experts.html

Also male lions can kill a female's offspring in order to bang the mum. Wolves teach their young to hunt through surplus killing. The list goes on.

Can you blame him? Lions are damn sexy.

xXhayleyroxXx
21-10-10, 18:02
What animals? She doesn't live in a damn jungle where there are animals everywhere around her, and I'm pretty sure that binning a cat doesn't make a person "[not] right in the head". It just shows that they do not value the wellbeing of animals as much as other people in this world.

****ing sick of the double-standards that some people have. So sending death threats to a person is more acceptable than binning a cat?

Oh and if you will argue that when humans are mauled by animals it's wrong because they can't "think" then you are contradicting yourselves. Reading some of the posts in this thread you'd think that animals can make rational decision( I for one do not)

This isn't such a huge deal I don't know why The Guardian even bothered printing an article about( as if there aren't any other important issues in the world to write about).

So she lives in a barren desert does she? There are lots of animals! Both domestic and wild. Who's to say she won't do it again? And in my opinion, there probably is something wrong with her if she did that -- even if she doesn't like animals its going against the law and she must have known she would be caught and fined.
And I hope you aren't implying I condone death threats to her, because I do not.
Animals maul humans usually when it is breeding season, or when they have young due to hormone levels and maternal instinct. Of course they are thinking.
And most people are bothered by this.

Spong
21-10-10, 18:09
Animals maul humans usually when it is breeding season, or when they have young due to hormone levels and maternal instinct. Of course they are thinking.

None of that is cognizant thought. Like you mentioned, it's all instinctual. Animals do what they do for survival and the protection/continuation of their species, nothing more.

xXhayleyroxXx
21-10-10, 18:12
None of that is cognizant thought. Like you mentioned, it's all instinctual. Animals do what they do for survival and the protection/continuation of their species, nothing more.

Yeah and I'm not saying I condone them killing humans, I agree; they're surviving. I was just replying to Necromanser's quote saying that she hoped other people/I didn't think animals didn't think when they mauled people. I know they're thinking.

Necromanser
21-10-10, 18:15
So she lives in a barren desert does she? There are lots of animals! Both domestic and wild. Who's to say she won't do it again? And in my opinion, there probably is something wrong with her if she did that -- even if she doesn't like animals its going against the law and she must have known she would be caught and fined.
And I hope you aren't implying I condone death threats to her, because I do not.
Animals maul humans usually when it is breeding season, or when they have young due to hormone levels and maternal instinct. Of course they are thinking.
And most people are bothered by this.
So what you're saying is that animals have cognitive abilities? I think you just contradicted yourself by saying it's hormone levels and maternal instinct that makes them attack and then following up by stating "Of course they are thinking". It's either one or the other and primal instincts and the ability to think don't mix ;).

Regarding the woman being a threat to animals. What I meant was is that one event like that does not mean that she will go an a spree killing and hurting animals. She binned a bloody cat, I'm pretty sure that doesn't make you a walking animal hazard. Her not liking animals has nothing to do with this I'm sure. It stated that she was under a great deal of emotional "pressure" due to her father being in the hospital and I'm sure that in part made her commit this heinous crime against humanity.

People don't just go binning cats without reason and from what I can infer this is the first time she has done such a thing. Pretty sure she didn't turn mental overnight after living a sane life for 45 years.

xXhayleyroxXx
21-10-10, 18:19
So what you're saying is that animals have cognitive abilities? I think you just contradicted yourself by saying it's hormone levels and maternal instinct that makes them attack and then following up by stating "Of course they are thinking". It's either one or the other and primal instincts and the ability to think don't mix ;).

Regarding the woman being a threat to animals. What I meant was is that one event like that does not mean that she will go an a spree killing and hurting animals. She binned a bloody cat, I'm pretty sure that doesn't make you a walking animal hazard. Her not liking animals has nothing to do with this I'm sure. It stated that she was under a great deal of emotional "pressure" due to her father being in the hospital and I'm sure that in part made her commit this heinous crime against humanity.

People don't just go binning cats without reason and from what I can infer this is the first time she has done such a thing. Pretty sure she didn't turn mental overnight after living a sane life for 45 years.

They can think and have instinct ;) I'm not contradicting myself at all. Binning a cat is a serious cruelty offence, maybe you don't think so but if she's done it once, like I said, she could do it again. Oh boo hoo, her dad's in hospital. My gran's been in hospital for 4 months and I've been visiting her every night, and I'd never harm an animal or bin a cat. That's why I think she's got a screw loose up there. She needs to grow up.

Necromanser
21-10-10, 18:25
Give me an example of when an animal has clearly demonstrated the ability to reason.

So in your opinion binning one cat= being mental. Your opinion is clearly affected by your bias towards animals, and a cruelty offence might have been something Michael Vick has done( drowning dogs in his bathtub).

Melonie Tomb Raider
21-10-10, 18:27
Perhaps she's not mental, but she's very cruel, to say the least. Any defences she has made have just been sorry excuses.

Forwen
21-10-10, 18:29
Give me an example of when an animal has clearly demonstrated the ability to reason.

http://www.sciencemag.org/feature/data/crow/

That matches what you meant by 'reasoning'?

xXhayleyroxXx
21-10-10, 18:30
Give me an example of when an animal has clearly demonstrated the ability to reason.

So in your opinion binning one cat= being mental. Your opinion is clearly affected by your bias towards animals, and a cruelty offence might have been something Michael Vick has done( drowning dogs in his bathtub).

If an animal didn't think -- why do dolphins save humans? I remember touchthesky posted a video of a leopard killing a baboon and then realising it had a child, and then it looked after the kid instead of eating it. Its incidents like that.

And yes I think causing harm to an animal makes me think something is wrong there -- its the fact she stroked it, and gained it trust before putting it in the bin. I'm not bias at all -- I'm very open minded. I'm for human and animal rights. In this case the women was wrong and she's being punished -- and in my opinion that's right. And it is a cruelty offence, or the RSPCA wouldn't have done anything about it.

Necromanser
21-10-10, 18:37
http://www.sciencemag.org/feature/data/crow/

That matches what you meant by 'reasoning'?
Partly instinct even though the crows have not used "pliant materials such as wire before". The crow probably tried to acquire tools similar to the ones it had used in the wild. Might also have been a result of trial and error.

@Hayley: I believe you are referring to the incidents when Dolphins had driven off sharks. It must have a been because the shark is their natural enemy and the dolphins seeing that the sharks are attacking a harmless animal( a human in this case) they tried to drive off the shark. More of natural instinct. As for the cheetah then it's probably compassion which also does not mean that an animal can reason since compassion is an emotion.

Forwen
21-10-10, 19:10
Partly instinct even though the crows have not used "pliant materials such as wire before". The crow probably tried to acquire tools similar to the ones it had used in the wild. Might also have been a result of trial and error.

Not sure if you've read the paper...

Thus, at least one of our birds is capable of novel tool modification for a specific task. In the wild, New Caledonian crows make at least two sorts of hook tools using distinct techniques (3, 4), but the method used by our female crow is different from those previously reported and would be unlikely to be effective with natural materials. She had little exposure to and no prior training with pliant material, and we have never observed her to perform similar actions with either pliant or nonpliant objects.

Anyway, don't mind me.

xXhayleyroxXx
21-10-10, 19:12
@Hayley: I believe you are referring to the incidents when Dolphins had driven off sharks. It must have a been because the shark is their natural enemy and the dolphins seeing that the sharks are attacking a harmless animal( a human in this case) they tried to drive off the shark. More of natural instinct. As for the cheetah then it's probably compassion which also does not mean that an animal can reason since compassion is an emotion.

No I'm referring to when dolphins see people drowning and take them back to shore :) and is compassion really so different to reason?

Necromanser
21-10-10, 19:33
Not sure if you've read the paper...



Anyway, don't mind me.
Sorry but I didn't have access to the whole article because of the subscription.

@Hayley: and no that still isn't reasoning. Why would they drag a 60-80kg human being to the shore if there is nothing in it for them and they don't even know who the human being is? It's compassion

Forwen
21-10-10, 19:40
Sorry but I didn't have access to the whole article because of the subscription.

:O Of course, I forgot I'm on the uni connection. Sorry :o

MattTR
21-10-10, 19:47
Wow, this case surely got a lot of attention. :eek:

Whatever she was going through, that's no excuse to take it out on others. Poor little helpless cat couldn't do anything. :(

I'm glad she got what she deserved. :tmb:

xXhayleyroxXx
21-10-10, 20:07
@Hayley: and no that still isn't reasoning. Why would they drag a 60-80kg human being to the shore if there is nothing in it for them and they don't even know who the human being is? It's compassion

At the end of the day, what she did was cruelty and shes being rightly punished. End of argument ^_^

The Great Chi
21-10-10, 21:21
I saw that cctv video on youtube with the heading....

"Good Woman saves poor cat from bin"

It was only later I found out the video had been reversed :p

Paddy
22-10-10, 03:02
At the end of the day, what she did was cruelty and shes being rightly punished. End of argument ^_^

To be fair I dont think anyone really debated that.

Lara Croft!
22-10-10, 10:44
Fine does not serve her right, but the attitude of others towards her, will.

Ikas90
22-10-10, 10:56
But but, they do it for survival.

Ahem, it's natural. How is it a crime if that's their natural way of things?

Mad Tony
22-10-10, 12:12
Ahem, it's natural. How is it a crime if that's their natural way of things?It's natural for humans to be horrible to one another too.

Paddy
22-10-10, 12:20
It's natural for humans to be horrible to one another too.
Depends on the context of the word horrible, horrible could mean just mere disrespecting of others or horrible as in killing another person. The latter Id definitely not call natural.
I know that probably didnt make sense but I tried.

Ikas90
22-10-10, 12:27
It's natural for humans to be horrible to one another too.

The only problem with that theory, is that we're an intelligent species, so we're capable of much more atrocity than animals are.

Nuclear war, for instance.

Mad Tony
22-10-10, 12:29
The only problem with that theory, is that we're an intelligent species, so we're capable of much more atrocity than animals are.

Nuclear war, for instance.Well, the theory goes that we are animals. If that is the case then you can't dismiss all cases of animals being cruel to one another as just "nature" but then use examples of humans being cruel to each other to try and back up your view that humans are evil.

What nuclear war? I don't believe we've ever had one.

Ikas90
22-10-10, 12:32
Well, the theory goes that we are animals. If that is the case then you can't dismiss all cases of animals being cruel to one another as just "nature" but then use examples of humans being cruel to each other to try and back up your view that humans are evil.

What nuclear war? I don't believe we've ever had one.

The thing is, humans are cruel to eachother for different reasons. We have the capacity to choose, and we certainly can diffrentiate between right and wrong. Animals can't.

I didn't mean nuclear war as if it's happened. I meant it as a possibility. It COULD happen.

Mad Tony
22-10-10, 12:36
The thing is, humans are cruel to eachother for different reasons. We have the capacity to choose, and we certainly can diffrentiate between right and wrong. Animals can't.

I didn't mean nuclear war as if it's happened. I meant it as a possibility. It COULD happen.We're not perfect and we can all be cruel. It's in our nature.

Bringing possibilities into this debate is pointless.

Paddy
22-10-10, 12:37
The thing is, humans are cruel to eachother for different reasons. We have the capacity to choose, and we certainly can diffrentiate between right and wrong. Animals can't.

I didn't mean nuclear war as if it's happened. I meant it as a possibility. It COULD happen.

This I agree with. Except for some of the really sickly disturbed individuals who get off on things like rape and murder etc. Sometimes those people cant tell right from wrong.

Ikas90
22-10-10, 12:41
We're not perfect and we can all be cruel. It's in our nature.

Bringing possibilities into this debate is pointless.

This, I agree with, and I acknowledge. We aren't perfect.

Whether we should be perfect or not, is the debate I was looking for.

@Paddy: I believe they can. They just don't feel any remorse.

Paddy
22-10-10, 12:42
This, I agree with, and I acknowledge. We aren't perfect.

Whether we should be perfect or not, is the debate I was looking for.

@Paddy: I believe they can. They just don't feel any remorse.
I believe most can but not all, I think some are really that mentally ill that they think what they do is right, that and if they can tell right from wrong they act on impulse.

xXhayleyroxXx
22-10-10, 13:05
To be fair I dont think anyone really debated that.

To be fair the RSPCA saw what she did as cruelty -- the cat suffered after a long period in a confined place with no food of water. It defied the 5 freedoms of an animal. There are so many rules determining what is cruel to do to an animal -- and this broke many of those rules, hell I should know.

Lenochka
22-10-10, 13:17
I do think this woman should get in some sort of trouble for what she did since it definitely wasn't right and she had no real reason for doing it. I just think its ridiculous how serious people are taking this, having her go to prison or killed... really? over a cat? are you serious? Like I said before, she was in no way right but that is like chopping off someones head for catching a mouse in a trap. lol

Paddy
22-10-10, 13:29
To be fair the RSPCA saw what she did as cruelty -- the cat suffered after a long period in a confined place with no food of water. It defied the 5 freedoms of an animal. There are so many rules determining what is cruel to do to an animal -- and this broke many of those rules, hell I should know.

I know that but what I meant was noone said it wasnt cruel :p
Because it sure as hell was to dump a cat in the bin.
Then again this issue has come up too often on the forum imo.
Funny you mention RSPCA, I wish I could trust them after how they treated my cat years ago who died.

xXhayleyroxXx
22-10-10, 13:32
I know that but what I meant was noone said it wasnt cruel :p
Because it sure as hell was to dump a cat in the bin.
Then again this issue has come up too often on the forum imo.

Well I kinda got pounced on for my opinion a few pages back-- when all I said was she's getting a just punishment. I don't want this woman to die at all, and its wrong that shes getting death threats. She made a mistake, a big one, but nobody is perfect. I think her rights for keeping animals should be taken away (which, knowing the RSPCA they might do) and a fine is perfectly acceptable.

@Paddy - why, what did they do?

Lara's Nemesis
22-10-10, 15:28
It was cruel and she has been fined but the only reason this case has got so much attention is because it was filmed and ended up on You Tube.

There was a case in Aberdeen this week where 5 kittens were found hanged. :(:mad::mad: Really hope they can catch whoever did this, they are obviously sick in the head. This case won't get anywhere near as much media attention despite being a far worse crime obviously.

xXhayleyroxXx
22-10-10, 15:51
It was cruel and she has been fined but the only reason this case has got so much attention is because it was filmed and ended up on You Tube.

There was a case in Aberdeen this week where 5 kittens were found hanged. :(:mad::mad: Really hope they can catch whoever did this, they are obviously sick in the head. This case won't get anywhere near as much media attention despite being a far worse crime obviously.

omg that's so horrible :( What you said is true though, and tbh, the worse cases need more attention.

Lara's Nemesis
22-10-10, 16:12
omg that's so horrible :( What you said is true though, and tbh, the worse cases need more attention.

Yeah I can't get my head around how someone could do that. Sick and twisted, some people really are repulsive.:(

xXhayleyroxXx
22-10-10, 16:46
Yeah I can't get my head around how someone could do that. Sick and twisted, some people really are repulsive.:(

I know same :( I hope they catch whoever hung those kittens, I really do. If you find out anything else about them please tell me x

Lara's Nemesis
22-10-10, 17:48
Will do.

Chocola teapot
22-10-10, 18:11
^ Oh my God.

:O

That is deeply disturbing.

xXhayleyroxXx
22-10-10, 19:51
Will do.

Thanks ^_^ xx

moodydog
22-10-10, 20:58
ok, Mary Bale does not need to be talked about for much longer about for her spontaneous animal cru... putting a cat in the bin!

People who think Bale is worse than Hitler or says she deserves to rot in prison clearly know nothing about animal cruelty...

this is animal cruelty...

Please don't remove the source of this video, I clearly want to show it for educational purposes.

THIS VIDEO CONTAINS DISTURBING AND INTENSELY BRUTAL IMAGERY SO PLEASE REFRAIN FROM WATCHING IF YOU MAY BE OFFENDED.

Mod edit: video removed for being too graphic

xXhayleyroxXx
22-10-10, 21:23
I'm not watching that video because I'll get upset -- but like it or not Mary Bale did still commit animal cruelty -- just a very mild form. Of course there are much worse cases, and they are to be seen everywhere, but its still animal cruelty.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
22-10-10, 21:24
ok, Mary Bale does not need to be talked about for much longer about for her spontaneous animal cru... putting a cat in the bin!

People who think Bale is worse than Hitler or says she deserves to rot in prison clearly know nothing about animal cruelty...

this is animal cruelty...

Please don't remove the source of this video, I clearly want to show it for educational purposes.

THIS VIDEO CONTAINS DISTURBING AND INTENSELY BRUTAL IMAGERY SO PLEASE REFRAIN FROM WATCHING IF YOU MAY BE OFFENDED.

Mod edit: video removed for being too graphic

Dear Jesus... I couldn't even finish it. But it makes an excellent point. Mary Bale is a saint compared to these *******s.

Apathetic
22-10-10, 21:28
Mary Bale is triflin.

voltz
22-10-10, 22:52
Yeah I watched the whole thing. Even though I did some work around this industry, I can't say enough things about people who get off on beating animals like that and it kinda makes me wonder how they are with their wife/kids?

trXD
22-10-10, 22:54
THIS VIDEO CONTAINS DISTURBING AND INTENSELY BRUTAL IMAGERY SO PLEASE REFRAIN FROM WATCHING IF YOU MAY BE OFFENDED.

Mod edit: video removed for being too graphic

I just watched that and it literally made me cry, god thats awful.

ryan91
22-10-10, 23:04
at least she didn't put the bin in the cat. jk. poor cat.

ryan91
22-10-10, 23:07
Mod edit: video removed for being too graphic

oh my gosh darnit. i watched the first 3 seconds of the video and stopped it immediately. it sucks jingle bells.

Dark Lugia 2
22-10-10, 23:22
Its so sad that people like Bale get more attention than people who actually abuse animals without any possible reason for doing so... :(
That video surprises me - which is a bad thing, stuff like this should be recognised more instead of the the 'animal cruelty' that is what Mary Bale did

voltz
22-10-10, 23:45
oh my gosh darnit. i watched the first 3 seconds of the video and stopped it immediately. it sucks jingle bells.

Go watch the pigs vid from the same poster, this stuff is state wide.

Lenochka
23-10-10, 00:22
Damn. I couldn't watch more then 10 seconds or so of that video just posted :(
Binning a cat is awful but that is just evil!

jjbennett
23-10-10, 01:04
I would have absolutely no remorse about hospitalising the people who are in that video.

EDIT - i wrote the above when only about 30 seconds in. Im forcing myself to watch the whole video. I wouldn't mind killing these blokes now.

Ward Dragon
23-10-10, 01:13
I removed the video for being too graphic. Those poor cows :(

jjbennett
23-10-10, 01:15
It has a disclaimer about being graphic and frankly i think people need to see that to know what goes on.

moodydog
23-10-10, 01:16
Its so sad that people like Bale get more attention than people who actually abuse animals without any possible reason for doing so... :(
That video surprises me - which is a bad thing, stuff like this should be recognised more instead of the the 'animal cruelty' that is what Mary Bale did

Thats because that video is actually unbearable to the general public.
Trust me, someone showed me a video worse then that years back... of a live dog with ALL its skin literally sliced off (yes it was 100% alive) and died from blood loss in the video. What else, animals sewn together... cats and dogs and barn animals with all fours violently chopped off and crushed. That is the TRUTH about animal cruelty, and its unfortunate that people choose not to see it, so unfortunately they are unaware of this.

Therefore, they see Bale as being as worse as it gets. which is very sad in my opinion... I wouldn't use her as an example of animal cruelty, and I probably wouldn't ban her from keeping animals- though i think they was right to fine her for the suffering for JUST 14 hours. (that's just a little longer than a good nights sleep.) Actually, tbh my personal opinion is I doubt the cat suffered much... my lizard suffered worse then that... the cage was left open, she escaped, was trapped under the cupboard, we couldn't find her for 2 weeks. she went for 2 weeks without food or water. She was near dead when we found her... but she recovered well (thank god :hug:)

Azerutan
23-10-10, 01:18
Babies and newborn are thrown away into garbage everyday and I don't really see that much fuss about it as I've seen with this news in particular.

I wonder if that woman had thrown a child there, people would post as much as post they've done till now or, if in any way, a topic would have been even started about it.

In a way I feel people are more and more hypocritical. Honestly, yes, I do love cats and I am annoyed by what that woman did, but there are so many even worse things that happen every single day which call for out for us immediately that amazes me how much attention this has gotten, both from the media as from people in general.

It really is "just" a cat and it "really" wasn't a serious crime or anything like that. The woman didn't kill the cat or harmed it directly, I still don't see her as a "monster" as so many of you have called, it's just too much, too over-the-top exaggeration and too hypocritical revolt when women get punched in subways and still don't get justice 'cause they're foreign (just an example). I didn't see that much revolt about that.

I know I will be getting flamed for my honesty here and in no way I mean offend anyone here, maybe I am mis-using the word "hypocritical" myself, but I just can't feel this is way too much and way too big of a fuss for such a trivial situation - yes, TRIVIAL, when I, you and we all know that pets are abandoned, killed by starvation, abuse or by simple cruelty. This compared to that is trivial to me...

:/

moodydog
23-10-10, 01:21
I removed the video for being too graphic. Those poor cows :(

Sorry but that is a prime example of why people are uniformed about it... I really think it should be 'see at own risk'... because people who want to see it... should see it so they are aware. Could I at least leave a link?

jjbennett
23-10-10, 01:22
Its become so big because it was caught on camera, im sure if lots of other things as you described were recorded there would be an even bigger lump of poo hitting the fan.

moodydog
23-10-10, 01:22
Babies and newborn are thrown away into garbage everyday and I don't really see that much fuss about it as I've seen with this news in particular.

I wonder if that woman had thrown a child there, people would post as much as post they've done till now or, if in any way, a topic would have been even started about it.

In a way I feel people are more and more hypocritical. Honestly, yes, I do love cats and I am annoyed by what that woman did, but there are so many even worse things that happen every single day which call for out for us immediately that amazes me how much attention this has gotten, both from the media as from people in general.

It really is "just" a cat and it "really" wasn't a serious crime or anything like that. The woman didn't kill the cat or harmed it directly, I still don't see her as a "monster" as so many of you have called, it's just too much, too over-the-top exaggeration and too hypocritical revolt when women get punched in subways and still don't get justice 'cause they're foreign (just an example). I didn't see that much revolt about that.

I know I will be getting flamed for my honesty here and in no way I mean offend anyone here, maybe I am mis-using the word "hypocritical" myself, but I just can't feel this is way too much and way too big of a fuss for such a trivial situation - yes, TRIVIAL, when I, you and we all know that pets are abandoned, killed by starvation, abuse or by simple cruelty. This compared to that is trivial to me...

:/

EXACTLY

plus... it said 14 hours not 14 days... thats not really a long time for a cat to be in a bin for

Ward Dragon
23-10-10, 01:26
Sorry but that is a prime example of why people are uniformed about it... I really think it should be 'see at own risk'... because people who want to see it... should see it so they are aware. Could I at least leave a link?

People could easily search it on Youtube if they wanted to see it. Linking to it is a bit much for this forum.

Tony9595
23-10-10, 03:15
QLTJu4ie00k

Happy now? :ton:

xXhayleyroxXx
23-10-10, 10:17
Its a bit annoying how people are saying she's not commiting animal cruelty -- she is, just a very mild form because the animal wasn't allowed its five freedoms.
1. Freedom from hunger and thirst

2. Freedom from discomfort

3. Freedom from pain, injury and disease

4. Freedom to express normal behaviour

5. Freedom from fear and distress

Mary Bale broke 4 of those rules.

And of course I know there are worse cases -- thats why I want to be an animal cruelty inspector.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
23-10-10, 10:24
QLTJu4ie00k

Happy now? :ton:

That's hilarious. I hope that cat got fined.

trXD
23-10-10, 10:34
Its a bit annoying how people are saying she's not commiting animal cruelty -- she is, just a very mild form because the animal wasn't allowed its five freedoms.
1. Freedom from hunger and thirst

2. Freedom from discomfort

3. Freedom from pain, injury and disease

4. Freedom to express normal behaviour

5. Freedom from fear and distress

Mary Bale broke 4 of those rules.

And of course I know there are worse cases -- thats why I want to be an animal cruelty inspector.

This, the fact that cows get hit over the face with crowbars doesn't change what she did, the cat was completely isolated with no food or water for fifteen hours, It could have easily been left in there for days.

And I'm studying to work with animals too :hug:

xXhayleyroxXx
23-10-10, 10:37
This, the fact that cows get hit over the face with crowbars doesn't change what she did, the cat was completely isolated with no food or water for fifteen hours, It could have easily been left in there for days.

And I'm studying to work with animals too :hug:

That's awesome ^_^

moodydog
27-10-10, 19:22
tbh next thing...

you will be fined for pouring salt on slugs...
Or spraying pesticides on insects, or chopping worms in half.

Mad Tony
27-10-10, 19:26
tbh next thing...

you will be fined for pouring salt on slugs...
Or spraying pesticides on insects, or chopping worms in half.Some people on this forum would like to see prison sentences handed out for that kind of thing.

xXhayleyroxXx
27-10-10, 19:27
tbh next thing...

you will be fined for pouring salt on slugs...
Or spraying pesticides on insects, or chopping worms in half.

Don't be silly -- Although I wouldn't condone doing that. :pi:

Tbh, I'm the kind of person who cries if they step on a snail :o And then I think about it all night.

Mad Tony
27-10-10, 19:28
Tbh, I'm the kind of person who cries if they step on a snail :o And then I think about it all night.No offense but it's a snail... :p

xXhayleyroxXx
27-10-10, 19:31
No offense but it's a snail... :p

I like all creatures, even snails. I find them to be cute.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
27-10-10, 19:32
Why oh why did we need to unearth this thread....

Forwen
27-10-10, 19:33
Why oh why did we need to unearth this thread....

You enjoy it, admit it :p

Dark Lugia 2
27-10-10, 19:33
Why oh why did we need to unearth this thread....

Was what I was thinking too =/

xXhayleyroxXx
27-10-10, 19:35
It is adding salt to old wounds :/