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lara c. fan
26-10-10, 09:00
Thousands of London firefighters are to strike on Bonfire Night in an escalating row over new contracts.

The Fire Brigades Union (FBU) said thousands of its members will walk out from 10am on November 5 to 9am on November 7, covering one of the fire service's busiest periods.

The news followed an eight-hour stoppage on Saturday and plans for another eight-hour strike on November 1.

The union claims firefighters are being threatened with the sack if they didn't agree to new shift patterns.

FBU general secretary Matt Wrack said: "We do not want to take this action but we have no choice.

"The alternative is to allow London's firefighters to become doormats for their employers to walk on.

"The chairman of the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority, Brian Coleman, issues calculated insults and says he's relaxed and sacking all of them.

"He and the Commissioner, Ron Dobson, want to run the London Fire Brigade as though it were a Victorian mill.

"They want a frightened and obedient firefighting force. We simply cannot accept that."

Fire authority chairman Brian Coleman said: "What sort of union orders its firefighters to go on strike over bonfire night?

"The emergency fire cover did what we expected it to do the first day, and will do so again."

London Fire Commissioner, Ron Dobson added: "It is very disappointing that even before the first strike dates have taken place we are facing new threats."

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20101025/tuk-firefighters-to-strike-on-bonfire-ni-45dbed5.html

I don't think they've exactly chosen the best moment. I suppose we'd be hearing about quite a few fires in London, perhaps.

scoopy_loopy
26-10-10, 09:25
Holy ****, that's quite scary. :o

dizzydoil
26-10-10, 09:33
I hope there is no loss of life or anything drastic like that. :(

EscondeR
26-10-10, 09:38
Well... If you don't cry out loud you can't expect being heared... but this borders with terrorism tbh.

Lemmie
26-10-10, 09:42
Uh oh. :(

Avalon SARL
26-10-10, 09:56
Oh, that is tragic. Scary, but maybe they need to shout out this so lioud to be heard well.
Just hope everything goes well

Another Lara
26-10-10, 10:37
I've lost all respect for firefighters!

"I know what'll be agood idea: put a load more people's lives at risk so we get the shifts we want!!"

****ing pathetic! :cen:

aidanmalone
26-10-10, 10:42
Wow this is bad
I understand they do not like the new changes and re trying to do something about it but at the end of the day they have a duty to protect the public and November 5th is the busiest time of the year, hope this gets sorted soon before something happens

Mad Tony
26-10-10, 10:44
I've lost all respect for firefighters!I hope you just mean the ones actually taking part in the strike.

Nausinous
26-10-10, 10:44
Not to be distasteful but 'Burn London, burn!!!'

In any case the Army will be in place to handle fires like the last time there was a strike.

Dennis's Mom
26-10-10, 11:28
I love how the entire situation is summed up like this:

"You're horrible!"

"No, you're horrible."

Journalism is dead.

MangelinaJolie
26-10-10, 11:47
Remember, remember, the Fifth of November...

Underworld2008
26-10-10, 12:58
worst day possible for Firemen to take a strike!

xXhayleyroxXx
26-10-10, 13:06
Omg... They could have chose a better day :( This just makes me think of that 'London's Burning' nursery rhyme :o
I'm so glad I don't live there. I just hope to God nothing bad happens.

Another Lara
26-10-10, 13:09
I hope you just mean the ones actually taking part in the strike.

Obviously! ;)

Lara's Nemesis
26-10-10, 13:13
Not sure why the firefighters are being forced into new shifts or face the sack. The old ones seemed to be working fine as far as I could tell.
Dirty tactics by the union choosing this date tho, I suppose they must feel this is the only way people will listen to them.

xXhayleyroxXx
26-10-10, 13:15
Not sure why the firefighters are being forced into new shifts or face the sack. The old ones seemed to be working fine as far as I could tell.
Dirty tactics by the union choosing this date tho, I suppose they must feel this is the only way people will listen to them.

That's what I was thinking :/

Lara's Nemesis
26-10-10, 13:18
That's what I was thinking :/

Yeah it seems like this may be their only choice, sounds like they are being bullied into accepting new shifts.

from The Guardian

"On 11 August, the London Fire Brigade formally began the legal process of terminating the employment contracts of 5,600 London firefighters."

"Of course there's a background as well. Our disagreement with the LFB did not arise on 11 August. There's a specific background, and a general one. The LFB was acting under section 188 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. If, 90 days after the start of this process, we have not reached an agreement which is satisfactory to the employer they have placed themselves in a position where they may legally fire all 5,600, and offer them re-employment on unilaterally imposed contracts.


It is a process which is designed to avoid having to negotiate a settlement. Why negotiate when you can sack everyone and invite them back on new contracts? It is also a process that is spreading. 26,000 workers at Birmingham city council have received similar letters under section 188; so too have 8,500 at Sheffield city council. It is a real return to Victorian values: "Do it our way or clear off!""



Seems pretty dodgy to me.

xXhayleyroxXx
26-10-10, 13:22
Yeah exactly -- it sounds dodgey to me too :/

Cochrane
26-10-10, 13:30
Yeah it seems like this may be their only choice, sounds like they are being bullied into accepting new shifts.

from The Guardian

"On 11 August, the London Fire Brigade formally began the legal process of terminating the employment contracts of 5,600 London firefighters."

"Of course there's a background as well. Our disagreement with the LFB did not arise on 11 August. There's a specific background, and a general one. The LFB was acting under section 188 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. If, 90 days after the start of this process, we have not reached an agreement which is satisfactory to the employer they have placed themselves in a position where they may legally fire all 5,600, and offer them re-employment on unilaterally imposed contracts.


It is a process which is designed to avoid having to negotiate a settlement. Why negotiate when you can sack everyone and invite them back on new contracts? It is also a process that is spreading. 26,000 workers at Birmingham city council have received similar letters under section 188; so too have 8,500 at Sheffield city council. It is a real return to Victorian values: "Do it our way or clear off!""



Seems pretty dodgy to me.

Who invents such a stupid law? Fire fighters striking in something called Bonfire Night seems rather extreme (unless the name is ironic, I guess). But if this is how much power employers have, I can at least understand why they feel the need to do so.

lara c. fan
26-10-10, 13:33
Who invents such a stupid law? Fire fighters striking in something called Bonfire Night seems rather extreme (unless the name is ironic, I guess). But if this is how much power employers have, I can at least understand why they feel the need to do so.

Bonfire night involves a lot of bonfires and fireworks.

xXhayleyroxXx
26-10-10, 13:34
Bonfire night involves a lot of bonfires and fireworks.

and burning large straw men lol

lara c. fan
26-10-10, 13:36
and burning large straw men lol

Not always. :p

Sgt BOMBULOUS
26-10-10, 13:37
Bonfire night involves a lot of bonfires and fireworks.

I don't think it's their intention to harm people, since lighting bonfires and fireworks are something people can CHOOSE to do, all you'd need to do to guarantee your safety is well... don't light bonfires or fireworks. Obviously this is extreme, but people here act as if they're all walking away during a wildfire outbreak... But they're not. They announced their intentions and gave people time to prepare for it.

lara c. fan
26-10-10, 13:39
I don't think it's their intention to harm people, since lighting bonfires and fireworks are something people can CHOOSE to do, all you'd need to do to guarantee your safety is well... don't light bonfires or fireworks. Obviously this is extreme, but people here act as if they're all walking away during a wildfire outbreak... But they're not. They announced their intentions and gave people time to prepare for it.

Thing is, accidents do happen. You can be as safe as you like, but apart from not doing it all together (Something I can't see happening), you're going to get fires. And apart from yourself and whoever's there, you won't have anyone to help you.

Lara's Nemesis
26-10-10, 13:42
Who invents such a stupid law? Fire fighters striking in something called Bonfire Night seems rather extreme (unless the name is ironic, I guess). But if this is how much power employers have, I can at least understand why they feel the need to do so.

Yeah the law sounds really unfair to me, I can understand why they are so angry with their management.

Hopefully the issue will be resolved before we have to rely on the army's Green Goddesses, can't see them being able to cover the whole of London.

http://i55.************/35k4ghl.jpg

Sgt BOMBULOUS
26-10-10, 13:43
Thing is, accidents do happen. You can be as safe as you like, but apart from not doing it all together (Something I can't see happening), you're going to get fires. And apart from yourself and whoever's there, you won't have anyone to help you.

You're missing the point though, they obviously feel wronged to the extent to where they're willing to take something important away from the people. I'm not saying it's right, but it's what they're doing nonetheless. People have a safe option, abstain from the festivities.

Lara's Nemesis
26-10-10, 13:44
You're missing the point though, they obviously feel wronged to the extent to where they're willing to take something important away from the people. I'm not saying it's right, but it's what they're doing nonetheless. People have a safe option, abstain from the festivities.

Agree with that, I'm sure people can give bonfire night a miss for one year.

lara c. fan
26-10-10, 13:45
You're missing the point though, they obviously feel wronged to the extent to where they're willing to take something important away from the people. I'm not saying it's right, but it's what they're doing nonetheless. People have a safe option, abstain from the festivities.

When have people ever been safe? :p

xXhayleyroxXx
26-10-10, 13:52
Not always. :p

do you not always do that there? We always burn a big straw man :p

Dark Lugia 2
26-10-10, 13:54
I dont see why some people are calling these firefighters selfish. How would you feel if your employer forced you to work a certain number of hours and shifts?

- Just because firefighters can save lives doesnt mean they have to put up with anything from their employers.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
26-10-10, 13:55
When have people ever been safe? :p

Now you're skirting the issue by bringing in a completely different argument. Perhaps I should have said safer? :)

Spong
26-10-10, 14:05
From what I hear, it's a strike because of cutbacks that will be enforced on Nov 26th, cutbacks that will result in job losses.

I say more power to them :tmb:
They couldn't have picked a better day to strike.

lara c. fan
26-10-10, 14:07
Now you're skirting the issue by bringing in a completely different argument. Perhaps I should have said safer? :)

I think you should have. :p

Anyway, yes, it's what they're are doing, but it still doesn't particularly mean it's right. I would have said do it another day, but, if this is what it takes to make them happy...

We'll have to see how it goes, I suppose. I severely doubt that people in London will not have a Bonfire Night this year. In fact, I doubt half the people even know what "clever" antics they're doing are even dangerous...

Mad Tony
26-10-10, 14:09
They couldn't have picked a better day to strike.This is what annoys me - the date of the strike. If they have good reason to strike then fair enough, but picking November 5th is just reckless. Of course, I'd expect no less from the unions.

Lara's Nemesis
26-10-10, 14:15
I dont see why some people are calling these firefighters selfish. How would you feel if your employer forced you to work a certain number of hours and shifts?

- Just because firefighters can save lives doesnt mean they have to put up with anything from their employers.

I suppose they are using that status they have to fight their cause here.

If it was a factory worker they wouldn't have the same kind of bargaining tool. One of my friends was forced into new shifts recently, none of the workforce was happy about it but they had no choice but to accept at the end of the day.

Spong
26-10-10, 14:20
It's all about making the powers that be cave in to demands. Striking on the one day of the year in the UK that's solely about having a bonfire is, quite frankly, genius. I wish them all the luck in the world.

EscondeR
26-10-10, 14:35
^ I suppose it's highly dependant on the POV, i.e. whos house is burning because of neighbours' fireworks ;)

Spong
26-10-10, 14:38
^ I suppose it's highly dependant on the POV, i.e. whos house is burning because of neighbours' fireworks ;)

No one's house outside of London, that's why no one else in the UK really cares :D

Another Lara
26-10-10, 15:15
^ I suppose it's highly dependant on the POV, i.e. whos house is burning because of neighbours' fireworks ;)

Exactly... if someone is killed due to a fire on that day, it is going to cause a major outcry and then there will be no support at all for the firefighters!

I dont see why some people are calling these firefighters selfish. How would you feel if your employer forced you to work a certain number of hours and shifts?


I would just have to put up with it and be grateful I have a job... I don't have a union to bully my employer for me!

The Great Chi
26-10-10, 15:25
My history class on 'The great fire of london' comes to mind :mis:

ultima espio
26-10-10, 15:44
My history class on 'The great fire of london' comes to mind :mis:

My thoughts exactly :p

It's quite scary...

Sir Croft
26-10-10, 15:45
They found a strong way to enforce their goals by picking a risky date to strike. This means the authorities are more likely to listen to them so they can sort it out quickly. However, if the authorities don't, then they're putting lots of lives in danger and both the authorities and the striking firefighters will be the ones to blame for any losses.

trXD
26-10-10, 15:47
If they actually go through with this, I don't know how they will be able to sleep at night, there is bound to be fires on bonfire night.

Chocola teapot
26-10-10, 15:48
Oh Dear...

:/

A_sY2rjxq6M

Sgt BOMBULOUS
26-10-10, 15:58
They found a strong way to enforce their goals by picking a risky date to strike. This means the authorities are more likely to listen to them so they can sort it out quickly. However, if the authorities don't, then they're putting lots of lives in danger and both the authorities and the striking firefighters will be the ones to blame for any losses.

Because they lit the fires? Again, there's a difference between giving people a choice to endanger themselves, and intentionally neglecting an existing threat. There is no threat until the people initiate it.

EDIT:

It's important to note that:
- I am not implying that people will actually listen
-That the firefighters actions are brazen and arrogant

But I still think to directly implicate them is wrong when people are literally "playing with fire".

Spong
26-10-10, 16:15
They found a strong way to enforce their goals by picking a risky date to strike. This means the authorities are more likely to listen to them so they can sort it out quickly.

Exactly :tmb:

However, if the authorities don't, then they're putting lots of lives in danger and both the authorities and the striking firefighters will be the ones to blame for any losses.

I don't see why the firefighters would be to blame. This isn't their first course of action, holding a strike isn't their initial, knee-jerk reaction. It's so many steps down the line after the powers that be have already refused to listen. In my view, should anyone come a cropper on bonfire night because of the strikes, the government will be to blame.

touchthesky
26-10-10, 16:17
Ahem. Nice choice of date.

Rai
26-10-10, 16:44
While I can see why they aren't happy with their shifts changing, the union could have picked a better day to strike - on one of the busiest days of the year what with bonfires and fireworks. People can try to be safe, but accidents do happen.

Another Lara
26-10-10, 17:48
My history class on 'The great fire of london' comes to mind :mis:

Really?! I thought that American kids only learnt about American history?!;)

Sgt BOMBULOUS
26-10-10, 18:04
Really?! I thought that American kids only learnt about American history?!;)

Actually nowadays they barely even learn about that.

Alpharaider47
26-10-10, 18:07
Really?! I thought that American kids only learnt about American history?!;)

For the most part it seems that really is all we learn :mad: At least unless you take advanced classes, but even then that's the focus. I had *one* class that dealt with the rest of the world out of the entire time I went to elementary, middle, and high school...

On a topic related note, that sounds pretty risky, but I suppose it's an effective way of getting your voice heard. I'd hope that if anything serious happens they'd be smart enough to at least pitch in and help. If they stood by and did nothing because they were on strike... nah that just doesn't sit right with me.

Actually nowadays they barely even learn about that.
Oh so true, school's becoming such a joke these days.

EmeraldFields
26-10-10, 18:13
Actually nowadays they barely even learn about that.

For the most part it seems that really is all we learn :mad: At least unless you take advanced classes, but even then that's the focus. I had *one* class that dealt with the rest of the world out of the entire time I went to elementary, middle, and high school...

Really? Different school districts have different focuses I guess, but we always learned about the rest of the world. :p If I remember correctly 6th grade was Canada and Latin America, 7th grade was Ancient civilizations (Greece, Rome, Mesopotamia, etc.), and 8th grade was US History. Then in high school it was Civics/Geography (9th), World History (10th), US History (11th), and finally Government & Politics and World Economics (12th).

Sgt BOMBULOUS
26-10-10, 18:14
Really? Different school districts have different focuses I guess, but we always learned about the rest of the world. :p If I remember correctly 6th grade was Canada and Latin America, 7th grade was Ancient civilizations (Greece, Rome, Mesopotamia, etc.), and 8th grade was US History. Then in high school it was Civics/Geography (9th), World History (10th), US History (11th), and finally Government & Politics and World Economics (12th).

Sounds like your school has an unusually high budget.

EmeraldFields
26-10-10, 18:18
Sounds like your school has an unusually high budget.

That's possible. I also took AP classes once I got to high school so that probably had something to do with it too. :p

EDIT: I actually found out some budget info from my school district and they're actually spending less than the average for the state.

LPS is ranked 224th out of 254 school districts in Nebraska in per pupil spending.
LPS currently spends $8,835 per pupil compared to the State of Nebraska average of $9,528.
LPS annually spends less than the state average by $23.6 million.
The current levy limitations do not allow LPS to generate enough revenue to spend at the State average.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:bjex9rpgeXIJ:www.lps.org/about/budget/documents/1ExecutiveSummary.pdf%3Fq%3D200910-budget-challenges-and-opportunities+lincoln+public+schools+budget&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgPhxavWAm5qcr6JuPtW1iivIWEoawfhwMA-W-9ba0anGYcfrl45RiA38w-wuCv-tgSknKcCGQz4WSrWBVRw5klTexK4ScOHqyEiGHz8RENNjQwOc0 VChkJyvXrbyQGOd5ekxHP&sig=AHIEtbROoiHHPsHTpyEwMdWpuauZ_wSfBQ