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RunrigNutter
04-11-10, 02:59
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/299736

Johnnay
04-11-10, 03:01
thats the Traditional way of the Roma:)

but still...........no

RunrigNutter
04-11-10, 03:04
I wonder why people think its OK in Spain.

Paperdoll
04-11-10, 03:08
I wonder why people think its OK in Spain.

They're not spanish, they're romanian.


The mother of the new young mom said it was not unusual for girls in their native country of Romania to have babies when they are as young as ten-years-old. It is not considered to be too young there, she claimed.


Did you read what you posted?

amaris
04-11-10, 03:09
i'm sorry, but EEW! A 10 year old girl? *shivers* These kids keep getting ****ed at younger and younger ages!

RunrigNutter
04-11-10, 03:10
It was in Spain

The young Romanian girl delivered her baby at a hospital in Jerez de la Frontera, southwestern Spain, on October 26, but who will keep the child is in question.

amaris
04-11-10, 03:11
but she's of romanian heratige.

Paperdoll
04-11-10, 03:12
Nowhere in the article does it say that people in Spain think it's ok. It was in Spain, the people are Romanian.

QiX
04-11-10, 03:16
Under Spanish law, "having consensual sex with someone under age 13 is classified as child abuse."

So ok when they're above 13?!? Wow!!! Spain must be a paradise for pedos :eek:

RunrigNutter
04-11-10, 03:17
I misread it, when the mum said it wasn't unusual. They might be Romanian, but the child isnt.

For example

My sister gave birth in USA, so her child is american not english despite my sister was british and born in the UK.

Miharu
04-11-10, 03:18
It's not just 10 year olds apparently there was a 1-2 year old who was pregnant or is pregnant in Asia thing is it makes me wonder how she got the baby...as there was an extremely rare case where an Indian(?) boy was born with a baby inside him it wasn't til he was about 8-9 years old til his belly was large.

Paperdoll
04-11-10, 03:19
It's not just 10 year olds apparently there was a 1-2 year old who was pregnant or is pregnant in Asia thing is it makes me wonder how she got the baby...as there was an extremely rare cause where an Indian(?) boy was born with a baby inside him it wasn't Gil he was about 8-9 years old til his belly was large.

Biologically impossible. Most likely was a stillborn twin or something.

I misread it, when the mum said it wasn't unusual. They might be Romanian, but the child isnt.

For example

My sister gave birth in USA, so her child is american not english despite my sister was british and born in the UK.

That is very much questionable, depends on the country and that country's laws so you cannot say that for sure.

RunrigNutter
04-11-10, 03:21
Wow, thats freaky.

I'm not saying Spain said it was OK, I was merely confused when the mum said it wasn't unusual.

It seems it is unusual, since yes she may be 10, but she hasn't stopped growing, yet developed all the organs.

My sister is Brirish, not american. So in USA, she be classed as a british-born living in USA.

Mr.Burns
04-11-10, 03:23
Biologically impossible. Most likely was a stillborn twin or something.



That is very much questionable, depends on the country and that country's laws so you cannot say that for sure.


Over here, the term I might use in the above mentioned scenario is "anchor baby" but not quite. Any child born in the US is automatically a US citizen. But yea, it depends on the country the child is born in.

RunrigNutter
04-11-10, 03:28
Thank You Mr Burns, that what I was trying to explain.


Under Spanish law, having consensual sex with someone under age 13 is classified as child abuse. Now the father or the girl could be breaking the law.

robm_2007
04-11-10, 03:52
Whore much?

or was it an assault that caused the pregnancy?

QiX
04-11-10, 03:58
Whore much?

or was it an assault that caused the pregnancy?

Playing doctor? Whatever it was a 10 years girl wasn't even supposed to be fertile. Too much hormones added in spanish meat maybe?

Uzi master
04-11-10, 04:06
Whore much?

or was it an assault that caused the pregnancy?

nope, it was a rouge turkey baster:pi:

mudkip25
04-11-10, 04:34
My sister gave birth in USA, so her child is american not english despite my sister was british and born in the UK.

Actually, its more of genetics.

The child won't inherit anything in it's genes in America or any other country unless one parent has blood from that country in his or her ancestry. When I mean american blood, Native American blood since everyone else migrated there.

edit: I'm probably talking about the countries from which you came from instead of citizenship like Mr. Burns mentioned.

Rai
04-11-10, 10:13
Oh goodness, do Romanian children develop more quickly or something? Even so for a child to be having consensual sex at that age just seems so wrong. It may not be 'unusual' over there, doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

Still, as long as the baby is healthy and is being looked after with a lot of love and support from the mother's family, that's the important thing.

Love2Raid
04-11-10, 11:23
Apparently it´s normal in their community (Roma). Yeah, what can I say? It seems strange to us, but to them it doesn´t. I doubt she was forced or anything, the father is a minor as well. I wonder if the Spanish government would/could do anything about this. They´re not Spanish citizens, they travel through Europe and temporarily settle wherever they like. Like nomads.

Miharu is referring to fetus in fetu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus_in_fetu), which basically means that your twin is developing inside you. Very rare.

tampi
04-11-10, 11:23
Under Spanish law, "having consensual sex with someone under age 13 is classified as child abuse."

So ok when they're above 13?!? Wow!!! Spain must be a paradise for pedos :eek:

It's not just 10 year olds apparently there was a 1-2 year old who was pregnant or is pregnant in Asia thing is it makes me wonder how she got the baby...as there was an extremely rare case where an Indian(?) boy was born with a baby inside him it wasn't til he was about 8-9 years old til his belly was large.

Wow, thats freaky.

I'm not saying Spain said it was OK, I was merely confused when the mum said it wasn't unusual.

It seems it is unusual, since yes she may be 10, but she hasn't stopped growing, yet developed all the organs.

My sister is Brirish, not american. So in USA, she be classed as a british-born living in USA.

Thank You Mr Burns, that what I was trying to explain.


Under Spanish law, having consensual sex with someone under age 13 is classified as child abuse. Now the father or the girl could be breaking the law.

Playing doctor? Whatever it was a 10 years girl wasn't even supposed to be fertile. Too much hormones added in spanish meat maybe?

I don't know where to start .... :o

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4969/1204343783607.gif




But how much nonsense is this?????:yik::yik::yik::yik::yik:
What kind of thread is this????:yik::yik::yik:
Go-go crazy????:yik::yik::yik:

This girl and her mother come from Romania.
The baby born here will be surely Spanish citizen, of course!
That is the real intention of coming here to give them birth. Well, the 10 years old girl.

....but.....so....then.....

We do not eat hormones !!!!!! :yik::yik:
But that kind of thinking is this??:yik:

What is this????
Maybe we eat as you eat. I don't know if there are hormones in the meatt!!!!
but WTH!!!!!!!
:pi:

People from Spain did not have sex with children !!!!!:yik::yik:
Sure there will be someone just like anywhere else.:o


OMG!!!! :o:o:o

tampi
04-11-10, 11:38
Apparently it´s normal in their community (Roma). Yeah, what can I say? It seems strange to us, but to them it doesn´t. I doubt she was forced or anything, the father is a minor as well. I wonder if the Spanish government would/could do anything about this. They´re not Spanish citizens, they travel through Europe and temporarily settle wherever they like. Like nomads.

Miharu is referring to fetus in fetu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus_in_fetu), which basically means that your twin is developing inside you. Very rare.

That's what the mother of ten year old girl says.:whi:
They have entered in Spain in particular because our government has laws lax on the issue of health.
Universal health care. So many immigrants take advantage of this situation to come here to cure their ailments.
But that is the fault of our government incompetent and asleep.

Clearly aware of this situation and the problems that France has had with the immigrants, they come to Spain, I suposse,, and automatically the new baby is Spanish citizen.
Sure there will be some legal loophole or association pro-anything or against anything that will cause them(both, mother and son) to be Spanish citizens and have free help.

Meanwhile, we citizens, we pay our taxes and take our daily dose of hormones to have antennas and twenty five arms .....

This is an irony. Obviously.:rolleyes::pi:

digitizedboy
04-11-10, 11:51
hmmm... A few scary comments here. :eek:

sandygrimm
04-11-10, 11:56
This is the case of the gypsy Romanians.
For the rest of us, it is an outrage. But for them, anything's possible.

robwolf666
04-11-10, 11:56
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/299736
Didn't even know they could get up the duff that young... But still, disgusting.

tampi
04-11-10, 11:58
hmmm... A few scary comments here. :eek:

You should refer to those between QUOTE

digitizedboy
04-11-10, 12:05
You already quoted them. :)

Squibbly
04-11-10, 12:25
I find it a bit crazy that 20 year olds are choosing to have babies, but this? I don't even know where to start. So very wrong.

That's what the mother of ten year old girl says.:whi:
They have entered in Spain in particular because our government has laws lax on the issue of health.
Universal health care. So many immigrants take advantage of this situation to come here to cure their ailments.
But that is the fault of our government incompetent and asleep.

Clearly aware of this situation and the problems that France has had with the immigrants, they come to Spain, I suposse,, and automatically the new baby is Spanish citizen.
Sure there will be some legal loophole or association pro-anything or against anything that will cause them(both, mother and son) to be Spanish citizens and have free help.

Yeah, I was thinking this as well. Sigh.

Legend 4ever
04-11-10, 12:49
This is shocking, but we should differentiate between Roma people aka. Gypsies and Romanians, please. They're not the same.

Rai
04-11-10, 12:54
This is shocking, but we should differentiate between Roma people aka. Gypsies and Romanians, please. They're not the same.

The article says that the family are from Romania, so I guess that is where the confusion is from. I can't see anywhere that says they are Roma/gypsies.

tampi
04-11-10, 13:02
Yes, here I have not heard anything about it. Not that you have followed the news much, but they looks like being a Gypsy family in the images I've watched.

Only the need to appear politically correct and not offend or seem racist or something similar is the reason (I think) what they call them Romanian instead Gypsies.







I would put now a very sexy video.:cln::o
I'm a bit troll :p:o

Keir_Eidos
04-11-10, 13:11
I read about this. Absolutely shocking. I also read that the youngest known mother was a girl of 5.

Info here on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers).

Legend 4ever
04-11-10, 13:12
The article says that the family are from Romania, so I guess that is where the confusion is from. I can't see anywhere that says they are Roma/gypsies.
Someone in the thread said it was normal for them in Romania, aka. the Roma people to have kids at 10, but the thing is, people of Romania are not Roma people, they're Romanians. Roma people can live in Romania, but that's not what a person of Romanian nationality is called.
Yes, here I have not heard anything about it. Not that you have followed the news much, but they looks like being a Gypsy family in the images I've watched.

Only the need to appear politically correct and not offend or seem racist or something similar is the reason (I think) what they call them Romanian instead Gypsies.

Again, a "politically correct" term for Gypsies (not Romanians) is Roma people.

tampi
04-11-10, 13:19
Again, a "politically correct" term for Gypsies (not Romanians) is Roma people.

We don't use that. We don't know this term.:confused:
Nobody says "Roma" here. Roma is in Italy only.

I read about this. Absolutely shocking. I also read that the youngest known mother was a girl of 5.

Info here on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers).

News says that there is real danger to the mother. Not even the bones have formed.

With 5 years old is really almost impossible!

Dina_Croft
04-11-10, 13:25
Oh my god.

Ewwww.

I can't imagine me having a child at this age.

Legend 4ever
04-11-10, 13:29
We don't use that. We don't know this term.:confused:
Nobody says "Roma" here. Roma is in Italy only.


Who is we? Don't tell me that wherever you live an entire nation is considered to be Gypsies?!

Roma or Romani people (which are NOT Romanians):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

Romanians(the nation of Romania):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanians

tampi
04-11-10, 13:37
Who is we? Don't tell me that wherever you live an entire nation is considered to be Gypsies?!

Roma or Romani people (which are NOT Romanians):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

Romanians(the nation of Romania):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanians

Sorry.
"We" in this post meant "Spanish people".

If I put your links in Spanish language, you will see clearly how the terms used are "Pueblo gitano" (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pueblo_gitano) or Gypsies (Gypsie people) and "Pueblo rumano" (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pueblo_rumano)or Romanian people.

This is how we call it.
Clearly the term Gypsy sometimes carries negative connotations.

Here clearly is the confusion of this whole mess.

Catapharact
04-11-10, 13:52
Biologically impossible. Most likely was a stillborn twin or something.

Unless offcourse the girl in question has a hormonal imbalance and her body is actually maturing faster. Its quite common in North America actually (though I don't know if the same case applies overseas.)

Either way, this is just...Just... Gah. The age of consent was changed in the Middle East not too long ago. Its time Romania joined in and changed its laws as well.

Rai
04-11-10, 13:57
Tampi, Roma or Gypsy is the term used for travellers, who traditionally live in a horse-drawn carriages/caravans, I don't know the correct term (not modern caravans), and have their own culture. Sorry I am not very well educated on them. Romanians come from the country Romania, the same as Spanish are from Spain.

remote91
04-11-10, 14:11
Gross. Little whore.

Legend of Lara
04-11-10, 14:14
Um.

Avalon SARL
04-11-10, 14:34
Very shocking :yik:

The only place where girls mature faster than other places as i was told (donno if it is very true) are girls in the desert and gulf and they say at about 12 years, they can marry. Even this is :eek:

Sgt BOMBULOUS
04-11-10, 14:35
If her daughter follows in her footsteps, she'll be a grandmother when she's 22!

tampi
04-11-10, 14:59
Tampi, Roma or Gypsy is the term used for travellers, who traditionally live in a horse-drawn carriages/caravans, I don't know the correct term (not modern caravans), and have their own culture. Sorry I am not very well educated on them. Romanians come from the country Romania, the same as Spanish are from Spain.

Perhaps: "wagons"?.



I know that and I've always known that.
What I have never known or heard before this conversation is that anglophones use the term differentiator and apparently "more politically correct" to refer to gypsies as "Roma".
Because otherwise I don't understand the difference.

Also I think "Roma" is a term derived from the word Romania making it more family friendly eliminating the last syllable of the word.


Never before had thought of writing or go to the Royal Spanish Language Academy to propose a different term for gypsy who is less pejorative.
It's also nice to know that you all did a new word. English is an active language.


Turning to news, images I've seen the girl on TV (never her face due to data protection for children) are of a girl who almost equals her mother's tall. Apparently she is not very small.


Now, I wonder if it comes to who is the actual age of the child may have been distorted.



I also like to say, just in case, that Spain has one of the foods (http://originspain.com/) and healthiest diets worldwide. Known as Mediterranean diet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet). Many of them with Protected Geographical Status (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_Geographical_Status)

Liara
04-11-10, 15:13
I hate it how a weird incident like this makes the whole country look bad. Anyways, I had no idea 10 year old could get pregnant. I thought you needed a properly developed body for that. Guess not... *shudders*

tampi
04-11-10, 15:26
I hate it how a weird incident like this makes the whole country look bad. Anyways, I had no idea 10 year old could get pregnant. I thought you needed a properly developed body for that. Guess not... *shudders*


We? Spain?
Now this really is shocking.


I'm thinking about the Romanian authorities. At the end are their citizens, and I never have hear any leader of Romania to say something about this.

interstellardave
04-11-10, 15:56
I hate it how a weird incident like this makes the whole country look bad. Anyways, I had no idea 10 year old could get pregnant. I thought you needed a properly developed body for that. Guess not... *shudders*

Obviously she was properly developed. Natural development occurs on it's own pace no matter whether or not it fits in with our various systems of laws or morals.

The funny thing is that people have been "developing" at younger and younger ages while society has pushed back the age at which we think sex and having babies is appropriate. There may never have been a time in human history where the gap between natural development and societal acceptance has been bigger than it is now.

robm_2007
04-11-10, 16:14
Wont the mother prolly die in childbirth?

sandygrimm
04-11-10, 16:34
I hate it how a weird incident like this makes the whole country look bad.
I agree. I hate the image they caused us in Europe.
We? Spain?
Now this really is shocking.


I'm thinking about the Romanian authorities. At the end are their citizens, and I never have hear any leader of Romania to say something about this.

Because no one cares. This has nothing to do with Romania. She's in Spain, she's a rrom.
I saw it on the news but it's nothing that shocking.

Azerutan
04-11-10, 16:59
Under Spanish law, "having consensual sex with someone under age 13 is classified as child abuse."

So ok when they're above 13?!? Wow!!! Spain must be a paradise for pedos :eek:
So two teenagers of 15 cannot have sex because the 15-year old boy may be considered a pedo? :confused:

Usually, one young can only have sex with someone less than 3 years older than her/him.
That's how it usually works. It's quite controversial actually in some cases...

And Romanians are not necessarily gypsies. Only 2-3% of the Romanian population is gypsie.

Catapharact
04-11-10, 17:04
So two teenagers of 15 cannot have sex because the 15-year old boy may be considered a pedo? :confused:

Does the 15 year old has the resources, the time and the motivation to raise a child if his girlfriend becomes pregnant? While the 15 year old might not be considered a pedo, IMO its still statutory rape since neither party is mentally (and in some cases, physically) prepared for any given side problems that might result from sexual intercourse.

tampi
04-11-10, 17:07
Because no one cares. This has nothing to do with Romania. She's in Spain, she's a rrom.
I saw it on the news but it's nothing that shocking.

She has entered in Spain only three weeks ago.

Azerutan
04-11-10, 17:11
Does the 15 year old has the resources, the time and the motivation to raise a child if his girlfriend becomes pregnant? While the 15 year old might not be considered a pedo, IMO its still statutory rape since neither party is mentally (and in some cases, physically) prepared for any given side problems that might result from sexual intercourse.
:confused: You scare me.

First, by "mentally" I guess you mean "mature"? I do think most teenagers, yes, are not mature enough to have sex, but some do make a conscious and mature decision to do it so. There are protections for that and protections, although not 100% safe, are safe enough and why not? It's the iniciation of their sex life and many people - like myself - took it very seriously.

And by the "physically" part, I am not even comment, because we all know the puberty usually starts at 11-13 and one is (also usually) already sexually prepared at 15.

Now, to call it a "statutory rape" and use the word RAPE is wayyy too much. If done responsible, with the right support and protection and with a right partner, I don't see anything wrong with it at 15, but again, I do think many teenagers at 15 are not mature enough for such decisions...

You're talking as if we live in a world where there are no protection and having sex = getting pregnant.

Catapharact
04-11-10, 17:23
:confused: You scare me.

Good. I guess I am getting my point across perfectly.

First, by "mentally" I guess you mean "mature"? I do think most teenagers, yes, are not mature enough to have sex, but some do make a conscious and mature decision to do it so. There are protections for that and protections, although not 100% safe, are safe enough and why not? It's the iniciation of their sex life and many people - like myself - took it very seriously.

I personally don't think its good enough a guarantee. As I see it, a possible pregnancy at this stage of a teen's life will either lead to a possible abortion or a very hard life for the mother. I don't think many teen girls or boys realize the gravity of the situation and teen pregnancy is actually quite a serious problem and it leads to lost opportunities for both the mother and the father who could have used the allocated time of their youths towards developing a good future for themselves rather then spending it raising a child.

Now, to call it a "statutory rape" and use the word RAPE is wayyy too much. If done responsible, with the right support and protection and with a right partner, I don't see anything wrong with it at 15, but again, I do think many teenagers at 15 are not mature enough for such decisions...

You're talking as if we live in a world where there are no protection and having sex = getting pregnant.

The scenario you provided is well within the legal definition of the term:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory_rape

The phrase statutory rape is a term used in some legal jurisdictions to describe sexual activities where one participant is below the age required to legally consent to the behavior.[1] Although it usually refers to adults engaging in sex with minors under the age of consent,[1] it is a generic term, and very few jurisdictions use the actual term "statutory rape" in the language of statutes.

If the kid in question can guarantee me that the child he raises will not become a burden on the state then I will have no problem with it. Usually however, that is not the case.

interstellardave
04-11-10, 17:24
Does the 15 year old has the resources, the time and the motivation to raise a child if his girlfriend becomes pregnant? While the 15 year old might not be considered a pedo, IMO its still statutory rape since neither party is mentally (and in some cases, physically) prepared for any given side problems that might result from sexual intercourse.

This is why I brought up the ever-widening gap between biology and society. People are maturing physically earlier than ever yet society is requiring people to mature in other ways later than ever before. No wonder our youth are all screwed up... they are not being prepared to be sexual beings, and for all that that entails. That's societies' fault; far from "protecting" them we're leaving them high and dry... which ensures that the worst possible outcomes can occur when they inevitably "do what comes natural".

Catapharact
04-11-10, 17:32
This is why I brought up the ever-widening gap between biology and society. People are maturing physically earlier than ever yet society is requiring people to mature in other ways later than ever before. No wonder our youth are all screwed up... they are not being prepared to be sexual beings, and for all that that entails. That's societies' fault; far from "protecting" them we're leaving them high and dry... which ensures that the worst possible outcomes can occur when they inevitably "do what comes natural".

I agree. In my old nation, you are legally considered an adult at the age of 16 and as a result, you will face the same consequences for your actions as an adult would. I personally took on that position of self responsibility with pride and acted as a contributing member of society with goals and views to see how things can be improved around my community.

I don't think that sentiment will work here in NA though :p.

Encore
04-11-10, 23:58
People are maturing physically earlier than ever

How, exactly? Any scientific data I can read on this?

interstellardave
05-11-10, 00:23
How, exactly? Any scientific data I can read on this?

I've heard and read about for years now, so much so that I thought it was just common knowledge, LOL... so I don't have a source to give you right now. Being a guy, however, I've personally noticed it as the years have gone by, if you know what I mean. :p

Actually here's a link I found just now... Seven years old! As I recall it was not unusual, when I was growing up, that it occur at 16:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38600414/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/

Squibbly
05-11-10, 00:35
^ It does seem that girls are developing earlier than years ago. I don't know of any specific data, just from what I've seen myself and stories I've heard.
I first got my period when I was seven years old. I had fully developed breasts and hips by the time I was eleven.

I don't know where I read this (if I do find anything about it, I will post), but I remember reading that the average age for girls to start their period used to be 15, and now it's 12.

Killercowz
05-11-10, 00:37
What!!!? At that age I thought people got pregnant from kissing to much. :p

Oh how I miss my innocence.
Or sheer stupidity. :pi:

Love2Raid
05-11-10, 00:44
The fact is that she is pregnant, so she's fertile. Her body must technically be ready then to handle pregnancy. The question is if she is mentally ready as well. I don't know about that, but I do know that at her age she should be busy with entirely different things, like school. She can't even take care of herself, financially, she depends on her family, just like this kid. It's just not very convenient. Some education wouldn't hurt these people.

xXhayleyroxXx
05-11-10, 00:47
Woa thats so sick :o I feel sorry for her....

Rai
05-11-10, 00:52
This is why I brought up the ever-widening gap between biology and society. People are maturing physically earlier than ever yet society is requiring people to mature in other ways later than ever before. No wonder our youth are all screwed up... they are not being prepared to be sexual beings, and for all that that entails. That's societies' fault; far from "protecting" them we're leaving them high and dry... which ensures that the worst possible outcomes can occur when they inevitably "do what comes natural".

Are you sure it is society that requires people to mature later than before? Just because a body matures, that does not necessarily mean a young girl who has periods and breasts is mature enough to cope with adult responsibilities such as sex and taking care of babies.

My grandfather went to work at something like 13/14. Was he ready for that kind of responsibility or should he have been able to go to school for another 2 years like today's kids?

The article and video you linked to suggests that although little girls are physically maturing, their brains and mental maturity are still aged 7. A girl that age or even aged 10, the age of the new mother this thread is about just isn't mature enough to cope with adult behaviours and responsibilities. But, if their bodies are maturing and they're experiencing the same hormonal changes that teens go through, then their parents should remain vigilant when it comes to their interaction with the opposite sex.

Society creates these laws for a reason. When our bodies mature is very much an individual thing, same for our mature attitudes, I suppose, but the age of consent (16 in the UK) is still valid whilst the numbers of children going through puberty early is still a minority. And, imo, should also remain to allow children to remain children. A seven year old is not an adult even if their body is saying different.

Unless I've completely misunderstood what you're saying of course, in which case, I apologise.

*laralover*
05-11-10, 00:59
This is disturbing. Just a child! :o I cant even imagine how that would affect the poor things body especially during the labour...:eek: Here iam wondering what the heck 18-20 year olds are thinking having kids! :o

Love2Raid
05-11-10, 01:02
I have heard about a girl from Africa who became a grandmother at 14. She was 7 when she got her daughter, and that daughter had a baby at the age of 7 as well. O_o

interstellardave
05-11-10, 01:14
Are you sure it is society that requires people to mature later than before? Just because a body matures, that does not necessarily mean a young girl who has periods and breasts is mature enough to cope with adult responsibilities such as sex and taking care of babies.

My grandfather went to work at something like 13/14. Was he ready for that kind of responsibility or should he have been able to go to school for another 2 years like today's kids?

The article and video you linked to suggests that although little girls are physically maturing, their brains and mental maturity are still aged 7. A girl that age or even aged 10, the age of the new mother this thread is about just isn't mature enough to cope with adult behaviours and responsibilities. But, if their bodies are maturing and they're experiencing the same hormonal changes that teens go through, then their parents should remain vigilant when it comes to their interaction with the opposite sex.

Society creates these laws for a reason. When our bodies mature is very much an individual thing, same for our mature attitudes, I suppose, but the age of consent (16 in the UK) is still valid whilst the numbers of children going through puberty early is still a minority. And, imo, should also remain to allow children to remain children. A seven year old is not an adult even if their body is saying different.

Unless I've completely misunderstood what you're saying of course, in which case, I apologise.

I'm just saying that a better approach needs to be taken--and a realistic one. Nature says you're ready; you're body tells you you're ready. Well, how do you deal with that? Society wants to just ignore it and sweep it under the rug. Just say NO! That doesn't really cut it, does it? Not without a lot of honest communication to go along with it... and perhaps acknowledging that they have at least moved out of "childhood" at that point.

I'm not saying treat them as adults but you can't treat them as children and act as if nothing has changed either. Whether they are 10 or 7 (which still shocks me... I didn't think it had reached that far) they have, in fact, reached puberty. They are not strictly children anymore 'cause they have changed and they have to cope with that as perhaps a 14 or 16 year old would have in my day.

When I say society doesn't prepare people I mean that--and it's plainly obvious if you just look around--that we have people in their early 20's who can't cope with adult responsibilities... apparently because they weren't exposed to ANY such responsibilities along the way. That is truly sad, and society is not better off for it.

Encore
05-11-10, 01:17
I've heard and read about for years now, so much so that I thought it was just common knowledge, LOL... so I don't have a source to give you right now. Being a guy, however, I've personally noticed it as the years have gone by, if you know what I mean. :p

Actually here's a link I found just now... Seven years old! As I recall it was not unusual, when I was growing up, that it occur at 16:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38600414/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/

The article seems to suggest that it's a medical anomaly rather than a natural evolution. I'm not sure if it's something we should celebrate and embrace, really, specially as it's suggested that it has a negative impact on the girl's health throughout her life.

The way I see it, issues like pedophilia or sexual maturity aren't really about the body, but rather, the mind - ie, whether or not the person is capable of fully understanding and dealing with the consequences of their actions. Children are not. We've achieved something great in those societies where this is understood and respected. To suggest that we should step back in this evolution is strange.

To me it sounds like "chopping off the arm to stop an itch", as the problems concerning teens and sex can be properly avoided with good parenting and sexual education. But sometimes, parents and the educational system prefer to blame external influences as it removes their responsibility.


When I say society doesn't prepare people I mean that--and it's plainly obvious if you just look around--that we have people in their early 20's who can't cope with adult responsibilities... apparently because they weren't exposed to ANY such responsibilities along the way. That is truly sad, and society is not better off for it.

But what does that have to do with sexuality? Sounds like you're mixing a lot of different issues in the same bag here.

interstellardave
05-11-10, 01:23
7 is extreme, but it has been getting lower as the years have gone by. When I was in high school girls were blossoming then; 10-15 years later it was in what we called middle school, now it's starting even earlier than that.

If anyone wants to reverse this then the hormones in foods ought to be looked at... it's the biggest and only reason I've heard (well actually I did hear something about plastic leeching into our food having this effect too).

Vickkyyy
05-11-10, 01:27
I was reading about that in the Toronto Star news paper. (A Canadian newspaper)

And it says "The girls mother says she's excited that she's finally a grandmother!"

I was like.. WTF?!

Azerutan
05-11-10, 01:39
Good. I guess I am getting my point across perfectly.
:vlol: No, not exactly that.
It was your approach that scared me, not your points (which I consider valid anyway).

I personally don't think its good enough a guarantee. As I see it, a possible pregnancy at this stage of a teen's life will either lead to a possible abortion or a very hard life for the mother. I don't think many teen girls or boys realize the gravity of the situation and teen pregnancy is actually quite a serious problem and it leads to lost opportunities for both the mother and the father who could have used the allocated time of their youths towards developing a good future for themselves rather then spending it raising a child.
Well, protections do exist and some are very effective, why not to use them? Let's face it: the body grows and it matures sexually quite early for some people. Teenagers are not children. 15 year old teenagers are old enough to take responsability for their actions, they do understand what they're doing and they do certainly know what they want no matter how well informed they are - you cannot particulary control their hormones. So, why not prepare them in their sexuality? I'm all for people to get to know their sexuality and the possibilites of their body early in their puberty (masturbation for me is not a taboo), but when it comes to intercourse (which happens no matter how protective parents are), I do think it'd be job as a father to support my daughter/son and inform them about the consequences of their choice. Yes, the risk of getting pregnant is possible, but not particulary high if you use the right protection.

I actually do see what you mean, but families should serve their purposes. If my daughter/son had a child at early age, it'd my job to help them through. To be honest, if you take in consideration the capability of one to raise a child, even in their 20's some people simply do not have the means to do it, nor the maturity, nor the financial support, but it doesn't mean that someone in their 15's cannot do it - actually both my parents went to work at 10 and they had me quite early, raised me and still had two more children, so it's never as black or white as what you may think. I actually do not disagree with your point, I am just writing another point of view. To me, it seems pretty obvious that our teenagers seem to be quite lost: families do not do their job at preparing their children for their sexuality, many parents don't care and treat their teenagers as if they were children unaware of their responsabilities (when they're not) and our society sells sex through so many means it amazes some people actually get surprise their daughter is pregnant :confused:

Seriously, people tend to blind themselves and pretend their 15 year olds are not sexual beings so that they do not worry so much.

The scenario you provided is well within the legal definition of the term:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory_rape

If the kid in question can guarantee me that the child he raises will not become a burden on the state then I will have no problem with it. Usually however, that is not the case.
Thanks, but that's still a long away to be considered and compared to a pedo paradise :p

Miharu
05-11-10, 01:43
Apparently it´s normal in their community (Roma). Yeah, what can I say? It seems strange to us, but to them it doesn´t. I doubt she was forced or anything, the father is a minor as well. I wonder if the Spanish government would/could do anything about this. They´re not Spanish citizens, they travel through Europe and temporarily settle wherever they like. Like nomads.

Miharu is referring to fetus in fetu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus_in_fetu), which basically means that your twin is developing inside you. Very rare.

Ah thanks for clearing that up! :) Extremely rare for a boy though, I saw a documentry about it. Quite disgusting and interesting at the same time.^^

Lara Croft!
05-11-10, 13:55
and back in 1939, as time reported, lina medina of peru, became pregnant at the age of 5 years, 8 months, and became a mother by age 6 years, 5 months.

wtf????

toxicraider
05-11-10, 16:12
^ It does seem that girls are developing earlier than years ago. I don't know of any specific data, just from what I've seen myself and stories I've heard.
I first got my period when I was seven years old. I had fully developed breasts and hips by the time I was eleven.

I don't know where I read this (if I do find anything about it, I will post), but I remember reading that the average age for girls to start their period used to be 15, and now it's 12.
Apparently, because you need a certain amount of fat to start having periods, it could be due to increase in fat in people's diets, and obesity.

In every decade from 1840 to 1950 there was a drop of four months in the average age of menarche among Western European females. In Norway, girls born in 1840 had their menarche at an average age of 17 years. In France the average in 1840 was 15.3 years. In England the average in 1840 was 16.5 years. In Japan the decline happened later and was then more rapid: from 1945 to 1975 in Japan there was a drop of 11 months per decade.

A 2006 study in Denmark found that puberty, as evidenced by breast development, started at an average age of 9 years and 10 months, a year earlier than when a similar study was done in 1991. Scientists believe the phenomenon could be linked to obesity or exposure to chemicals in the food chain, and is putting girls at greater long-term risk of breast cancer.
11 months per decade? :eek:

igonge
05-11-10, 16:25
...ok

Legend 4ever
05-11-10, 21:33
Also I think "Roma" is a term derived from the word Romania making it more family friendly eliminating the last syllable of the word.

Again, not true. The Gypsies(Roma people) have nothing to do with Romania as a country, therefore their name is not a derivative of Romania. The Gypsies live everywhere, Europe, Asia, America -- everywhere. They are not limited and do not originally hail from Romania.

tampi
05-11-10, 22:27
Again, not true. The Gypsies(Roma people) have nothing to do with Romania as a country, therefore their name is not a derivative of Romania. The Gypsies live everywhere, Europe, Asia, America -- everywhere. They are not limited and do not originally hail from Romania.

:confused: and more :confused:

Gypsies live everywhere,..... and??? :confused:
I know that and always knew that.

This seems a difficult night.:o

If a Gypsy person born in Romania, then, what nationality is she/he?
If he comes from Romania, I have to say that it is Romanian, I think.
If I want to give more details about that person might add she/he is Gypsy ethnic or what you say as "Roma"

Now, can you please tell me, to clarify this issue, the word "Roma", where it comes from?
Because I've searched in Cambridge and Collins dictionaries and say that this word does not exist.
Do not talk WordReference or Wilkipedia, or bla bla bla internet meanings please.
I refer to a dictionary would explain to us what is the origin of the word in a serious way.
I just curious if that word come from Romania word.

I read it. Thank you.:)

Legend 4ever
05-11-10, 22:38
:confused: and more :confused:

Gypsies live everywhere,..... and??? :confused:
I know that and always knew that.

This seems a difficult night.:o

If a Gypsy person born in Romania, then, what nationality is she/he?
If he comes from Romania, I have to say that it is Romanian, I think.
If I want to give more details about that person might add she/he is Gypsy ethnic or what you say as "Roma"

Now, can you please tell me, to clarify this issue, the word "Roma", where it comes?
Because I've searched in Cambridge and Collins dictionaries and say that this word does not exist.
Do not talk WordReference or Wilkipedia, or bla bla bla internet meanings please.
I refer to a dictionary would explain to us what is the origin of the word in a serious way.
I just curious if that word come from Romania word.

I read it. Thank you.:)
No, it DOES NOT come from the word Romania. Why is that so hard to understand? Romanian Gypsies could be Romanians, also US Gypsies are American, not Romanian. Romanian is a nationality, Roma is an ethnic group. Just because words sound similar doesn't mean they are the same. There are thousands examples of that. And BTW, that's not something to look for in the dictionary. It's better to try using an encyclopaedia, such as Britannica -- http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/250432/Rom

Also, I found this:
http://www.dosta.org/en/node/64
The word "Roma" comes from the word "Rom" (originally: Dom) which means "human being", "a man" in Romani language.

The term Roma in general literature is not limited to those who use the self– appellation Roma. It also refers to those groups who ethnically, culturally and historically belong to the same kind of groups/tribes calling themselves Kaldarash, Kále, Lovara, Arlija, Gurbet, Romungro, or belong to other groups/tribes of which there are dozens of different ones in Europe according to various research.

Among the majority non-Roma population, the word "Gypsy" originated from the world "Egyptian", is mostly used in English speaking countries, having a reference to the migration route of the Roma who might have reached Europe via Egypt and the Straits of Gibraltar.


http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Roma_%28people%29
Most Roma refer to themselves by one generic name, Rom (meaning "man" or "husband").

Uzi master
05-11-10, 22:41
heres a dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Roma) definition...

Rai
05-11-10, 22:46
In the Oxford Dictionary of English, the alternative word given for Gypsy (traveller) is Romany, which is also used to describe their language. Gypsy's are given the description as a member of travelling people with dark skin and hair, speaking a language (romany) related to Hindi, and traditionally living by seasonal work, itinerant trade, and fortune-telling.

On Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Roma), they give the word Roma to also mean Gypsy/Romany.

And I already explaind to Tampi that Gypsies/Roma aren't from Romania necessarily.

tampi
05-11-10, 23:14
Yes, I had found some of the references that you make on the links.
The only new thing about my search is that provided by Legend 4ever.

According to your link we can say that comes from the word "Rom" has a similar meaning to man or husband.



That's fine!! Good!! :)

It comes from "Rom" word and it has no relation with "Romania" word:)



No, it DOES NOT come from the word Romania. Why is that so hard to understand? Romanian Gypsies could be Romanians, also US Gypsies are American, not Romanian. Romanian is a nationality, Roma is an ethnic group. Just because words sound similar doesn't mean they are the same. There are thousands examples of that. And BTW, that's not something to look for in the dictionary. It's better to try using an encyclopaedia, such as Britannica -- http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/250432/Rom

Also, I found this:
http://www.dosta.org/en/node/64



http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Roma_%28people%29

It is not difficult to understand. I understand perfectly. I think it's you who does not understand. :)

I never said that Gypsies are only from Romania, or that "Roma" people are only from Romania.
If you understood this, then, sorry if you felt offended:confused:. There will have been some misunderstanding.

I only said that if these people coming from Romania are Romanian. I don't care if they are Black, White, Yellow, Blue, Green or Gypsies.

But if they come from Romania are Romanian, and if their ethnicity is the Roma, as also are gypsies.
Because all Roma people are Gypsies but no all Gypsies are Roma people.

If my language does not have a word to call them as distinct as English does it, I will not say sorry because it's not my fault.

I also read that simply term "Roma" is friendlier to them than the word Gypsy dragging a pejorative connotation, as I said earlier in a post.

Thank you Rai and Uzi Master.

And for you, Legend 4 ever thank you very much too by this useful link that talks about an article.




And I already explaind to Tampi that Gypsies/Roma aren't from Romania necessarily.

OMG, Can you show me Where I said that, please????

robm_2007
05-11-10, 23:15
How old is the grandma? 14?

tampi
05-11-10, 23:19
How old is the grandma? 14?

Grandma 30+


It seems that prosecutors to the defense of children has begun legal action against certain media to give information about her(10 years old). Her exact address, for example.
Causing to her to feel harassed by the media.

Rai
06-11-10, 00:23
OMG, Can you show me Where I said that, please????

My apologies, my wording in my original explanation wasn't exactly that Romas aren't necessarily from Romania, rather I was trying to explain the difference from Romas and Romanians. Sorry, I don't think I took in consideration any language bariers for you :o.

Romas can be from anywhere, they travel across Europe, parts of North Africa and North America, but are believed to have originated in the Indian subcontinent. (Oxford Dictionary).

And yes, Roma/Romany is a more traditional term to describe Gypsies, especially here in the UK. Gypsies can at times be confused for 'travellers' who have nothing to do with the Romany culture.