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moodydog
10-11-10, 21:17
WOOO!!

As you know... Tory have increased student fees from £3000 to £9000 for 2012.

Lets see what the students think about this...

Jo7G3MMyFbc&feature=player_

I suppose it is out of hand! But that just reflects on how bad things are at the moment for Students. I am definitely going to join in on the protests, but hopefully it won't be as violent!

aidanmalone
10-11-10, 21:20
Yes this will definitely affect me as i [I]was[I] planning to go to Uni next year but no way could i afford the £9000 they're asking for,looks like the government are more concerned about saving money rather that everyone's futures :(

moodydog
10-11-10, 21:22
Yes this will definitely affect me as i [I]was[I] planning to go to Uni next year but no way could i afford the £9000 they're asking for,looks like the government are more concerned about saving money rather that everyone's futures :(

Nick Clegg even promised to us that student fees aren't going to rise!
They're all just faceless evil people!

ultima espio
10-11-10, 21:23
Ouch, that stops so many people from going to Uni:o

tampi
10-11-10, 21:25
The right to culture is lost. The right to equal opportunity, too.

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/4833/40809264.jpg (http://img585.imageshack.us/i/40809264.jpg/)

A bit more, a bit more!

Lee croft
10-11-10, 21:28
I wont be going to Uni now thanks to this.

Which means I wont be going to become a nurse in the future THANKS FOR ****ING UP MY LIFE PLAN, FML now I have to come up with a plan B that does NOT involve Uni ¨_¨

moodydog
10-11-10, 21:32
I wont be going to Uni now thanks to this.

Which means I wont be going to become a nurse in the future THANKS FOR ****ING UP MY LIFE PLAN, FML now I have to come up with a plan B that does NOT involve Uni ¨_¨

you'll find that protesting will solve all your life problems... I wish!

Tombraider95
10-11-10, 21:34
Why is everything going up? Why cant things go back to the way they were =/

If i cant go to university then i wont be able to do what i want to do in the future :hea:

Lee croft
10-11-10, 21:34
you'll find that protesting will solve all your life problems... I wish!

I didnt actually know the protest was today.

I wish England would sort it's life out. ¨_¨

lara c. fan
10-11-10, 21:35
Nick Clegg even promised to us that student fees aren't going to rise!
They're all just faceless evil people!

Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrats could promise whatever the hell they wanted when the General Election came around, pretty much. I never really expected them to deliver on their promises, particularly as most involved giving out money the country didn't have, such as to help students pay for Uni. £7000 or something per student per year, I think it was.

TombOfRaiders
10-11-10, 21:36
Damn, this is really going to affect my future. I was hoping to go to Uni. :(

Rai
10-11-10, 21:36
I'm not a student, but I think hiking up the fees is all wrong. So many potential Uni students with promising futures left without being able to pursue their dreams. Will students be able to get financial help? I don't know how it works :o.

aidanmalone
10-11-10, 21:36
you'll find that protesting will solve all your life problems... I wish!

Surprisingly it does!
The government cant exactly sit back and ignore all those students who are protesting and i have a feeling if they do go through with it Britains economy and education will collapse

lara c. fan
10-11-10, 21:36
Damn, this is really going to affect my future. I was hoping to go to Uni. :(

You're kidding, right?

TombOfRaiders
10-11-10, 21:38
You're kidding, right?

No. :(

lara c. fan
10-11-10, 21:38
No. :(

I'm confused.

Lee croft
10-11-10, 21:39
The thing is, is that all the money is going to schools now, college's and uni's dont get a look in ..this is what I was told by my teacher at college anyway.

TombOfRaiders
10-11-10, 21:39
I'm confused.

Oh dear. You must elaborate on your confusion! D=

lara c. fan
10-11-10, 21:40
Oh dear. You must elaborate on your confusion! D=

*glares suspiciously*

Minimus
10-11-10, 21:41
I was there today :D OMG I saw a fire while I was there, too :/

There was a guy dressed in a suit made entirely of money, holding a sign that read "Do I look like I'm made of money?"

TombOfRaiders
10-11-10, 21:48
*glares suspiciously*

I'm confused.

Rai
10-11-10, 21:50
I'm confused.

What's to be confused about? If he can't afford the Uni fees, then his career plans are pretty much messed up, surely?

Sorry for cutting in on your convo :o.

Lee croft
10-11-10, 21:50
I'm confused.

We all are...

I am not surpised that the protest went violent ...:rolleyes: what did they expect from today's London youth.

lara c. fan
10-11-10, 21:50
What's to be confused about? If he can't afford the Uni fees, then his career plans are pretty much messed up, surely?

Sorry for cutting in on your convo :o.

From what I have... gleaned over time, he should be able to. Which is why I'm confused.

TombOfRaiders
10-11-10, 21:51
What's to be confused about? If he can't afford the Uni fees, then his career plans are pretty much messed up, surely?

Sorry for cutting in on your convo :o.

It's fine! :D

I always have a Plan B...

rQjh9H-ymK4

Rai
10-11-10, 21:53
From what I have... gleaned over time, he should be able to. Which is why I'm confused.

Ohh well, you seem to know him. But then only he knows for sure if he can actually afford it.

Lee croft
10-11-10, 21:53
It's fine! :D

I always have a Plan B...

[youtube]rQjh9H-ymK4[/yutube]

LMAO <3

I love that song :p

TombOfRaiders
10-11-10, 21:56
I say we clean up what Guy Fawkes started. :vlol: Anyone got any gunpowder? :D

xcrushterx
10-11-10, 22:07
I really do not agree with them doing this to the uni fees. I know this doesn't even effect me, but I wouldn't be against travelling down South and joining in the protests myself =/

The Great Chi
10-11-10, 22:15
The government cant exactly sit back and ignore all those students who are protesting and i have a feeling if they do go through with it Britains economy and education will collapseThey will ignore the public and any protest you care to make, you have to remember its the carring sharing listening party of Tories that are in number 10 now. (sarcasm).

They have only been in power, what, a few months, and their policies have been down right depremental and depressive to their people, oh, and your getting a VAT increase soon to 20% come January, I wonder how that will go down with the voters.

More protests anyone ? No !

Laralissa
10-11-10, 22:55
Don't get me wrong, of course I'd rather costs weren't rising too, but those who are saying 'oh crap, thats my future out the window, I cant go to uni now' are being a little overdramatic if you ask me.

Correct me if Im wrong, but you don't pay the costs upfront, do you? You start paying back the costs once you're earning over a certain amount of money AFTER you've been awarded your qualification. At least that's the case if you take out student loans, which I have done myself. I have my qualification and I wont start paying back until Im earning over £20,000 or something like that, and even then the rate at which you pay back isn't exactly going to drain your bank account. Im in Scotland though, so maybe it works slightly different down south.

Either way, violence may be an option for a few things, but I don't think this is one of them.

Cochrane
10-11-10, 22:58
I am not a fan of violence at all, and I think this is definitely over the top. There is no excuse for actions like this.

However, the message is, of course, separate from the way it was delivered, and I think the students are right. Those tuition fees are too damn high. The government should lower them, not raise them. Yes, that costs tax money, and there isn't a lot of that around these days. I donít think that this should matter, though. Someone who went to a university is on average less likely to have no job, and if he has a job itís on average better paid (meaning more taxes). No european country can compete with China on its great ability of having stupid people weld stuff together. Education is the biggest resource the western world has at this point, and it should be the near-, mid- and long-term goal of absolutely every government to increase the number the people with a good university education.

I agree with the new british government in some respects (their railroad plan seems very good), I donít know or care about what they do in most others, but I definitely think that they are horribly wrong here.

Forwen
10-11-10, 22:59
There's one thing that gets me here.


Can students pay back their loans early?

The rules have not yet been set on this. Mr Willetts said it was "important" that higher earners were "not able unfairly to buy themselves out" of the system by paying their loans back early.

He said the government would consult on penalties for early repayments, saying that there might be a 5% levy on repayments over a certain amount each year - or on early repayments made by graduates with incomes above a certain threshold, such as £60,000.

[BBC]

And if you do 'buy yourself out' early, how exactly is that detrimental to others?

Rai
10-11-10, 23:03
Don't get me wrong, of course I'd rather costs weren't rising too, but those who are saying 'oh crap, thats my future out the window, I cant go to uni now' are being a little overdramatic if you ask me.

Correct me if Im wrong, but you don't pay the costs upfront, do you? You start paying back the costs once you're earning over a certain amount of money AFTER you've been awarded your qualification. At least that's the case if you take out student loans, which I have done myself. I have my qualification and I wont start paying back until Im earning over £20,000 or something like that, and even then the rate at which you pay back isn't exactly going to drain your bank account. Im in Scotland though, so maybe it works slightly different down south.



Ah, I wondered about student loans. I'm guessing those saying they can't go to Uni now didn't realise this or perhpas they can't get loans. Do you have to be on a low income to get one or are they for all?

Forwen
10-11-10, 23:11
No european country can compete with China on its great ability of having stupid people weld stuff together. Education is the biggest resource the western world has at this point, and it should be the near-, mid- and long-term goal of absolutely every government to increase the number the people with a good university education.

No European country can compete with China on its number of graduates, either.

China has twice as many university graduates as the United States, which used to be the world leader, according to statistics published for the first time.

http://www.uis.unesco.org/ev.php?ID=7122_201&ID2=DO_TOPIC

[This is not actually correct as the report itself quotes 2.4 mln for China and 1.4 for US but still]

By that line, the only thing Europe can reasonably aim for is highest quality rather highest quantity of graduates, and that would mean specialisation in the most profitable industries, not spreading tax money thin across all sectors.

I do believe that governments should aim for the highest numbers of people with good quality degrees, probably just not 'people with degrees'.

The Great Chi
10-11-10, 23:18
But will there be enough work for UK graduates when they leave University.... :mis:

Cochrane
10-11-10, 23:21
Forwen: That's certainly true. And there are some subjects where I donít really care if they have tuition fees, because they donít add much to society.

Either way, though, I believe that the future for the western world lies in high tech businesses, and that requires not only better degrees, but also more people to have more education than they do today. We canít match Chinaís number ofÖ anything, really. But we have to match and exceed Chinaís average level of education. I don't see any other way we can stay relevant in the future. And that requires not only a number of highly-educated graduates (with the associated price tags), but also a real lot of "normal people" with a better education than they would have had two or three generations ago. No doubt that this does not come for free.

digitizedboy
10-11-10, 23:21
I watched a program recently about a graduate who studied graphic design. He couldn't even get a job at Tesco's bakery. No, they employed the guy with "work experience".

Archetype
10-11-10, 23:22
Saw some of the footage of the protests on the news... looks like good fun.

voltz
10-11-10, 23:24
I am not a fan of violence at all, and I think this is definitely over the top. There is no excuse for actions like this.

Well I guess you can't blame them. Scientifically, most students still haven't fully developed their brains yet, so judgment and reasoning is a difficult concept for them to grasp.

Cochrane
10-11-10, 23:28
I watched a program recently about a graduate who studied graphic design. He couldn't even get a job at Tesco's bakery. No, they employed the guy with "work experience".
Let’s be honest, though. If I were to higher a guy to bake bread, I’d take the one who had done it before over the one who hadn’t as well. Wouldn’t you?

digitizedboy
10-11-10, 23:31
^ Actually this guy hadn't baked break before either, he just had a bigger CV filled with lots of previous employment.

Cochrane
10-11-10, 23:33
Either way, a graphic design degree isnít supposed to prepare you for work in a bakery.

Forwen
10-11-10, 23:38
Either way, though, I believe that the future for the western world lies in high tech businesses, and that requires not only better degrees, but also more people to have more education than they do today. We can’t match China’s number of… anything, really. But we have to match and exceed China’s average level of education. I don't see any other way we can stay relevant in the future. And that requires not only a number of highly-educated graduates (with the associated price tags), but also a real lot of "normal people" with a better education than they would have had two or three generations ago. No doubt that this does not come for free.

But what kind of education do you mean by those? Will sociology, arts or philosophy graduates really contribute that much to high tech business or innovation? That is not, of course, to say that there is no demand for those degrees or that society has no use for them; but many students seem to take them as an easy way out of hard work at university rather than because they have drive, talent or ideas about how to turn this into a successful career.

What I would like to see is a change of culture allowing universities to specialise in several sectors rather than sport a wide offer of degrees, half of them being average at most but still costing them government money (unless of course they're paid off entirely with fees). That would naturally lead to universities filling up the gaps depending on demand from both industries and students, and having more money for investment saved on closure of weaker departments.

Cochrane
10-11-10, 23:45
But what kind of education do you mean by those? Will sociology, arts or philosophy graduates really contribute that much to high tech business or innovation? That is not, of course, to say that there is no demand for those degrees or that society has no use for them; but many students seem to take them as an easy way out of hard work at university rather than because they have drive, talent or ideas about how to turn this into a successful career.
I hope I wonít offend too many people here, but those are the kind of courses where I donít think high tuition fees are a problem. I am taking a strictly utilitarian approach to university: If it helps someone become a better person with a wider horizon and stuff, nice, but in the end we really need the space and money to educate the people who will design and build our future, i.e. engineers, natural scientists and the like. Personally, I think we need an overall shift away from all that liberal arts stuff that is still so popular around here. Understanding Newton is more important than understanding Shakespeare. I have no idea how it is in the UK, but here in Germany we have lots of people who are actually proud to say that they never really understood maths, and I absolutely hate that. Itís not like thereís no use for people with a degree in graphic design, but itís by no means essential to have a lot of well educated graphic designers (and similar).

Sorry for the rant, itís just something I needed to get off my chest. :D

What I would like to see is a change of culture allowing universities to specialise in several sectors rather than sport a wide offer of degrees, half of them being average at most but still costing them government money (unless of course they're paid off entirely with fees). That would naturally lead to universities filling up the gaps depending on demand from both industries and students.
Sounds like a good idea to me.

JonnyT
10-11-10, 23:48
This has affected my thoughts about going to university. Tripling the cost in the space of a year is no good. The new government have even cut off EMA bonuses for those students that currently receive that too >.<

Forwen
10-11-10, 23:53
^ The science and maths departments in England are actually partially ringfenced from the cuts; in comparison the arts and social sciences are having their teaching grants pretty much wiped out as I understand (some? modern languages are exempt), which will make them rely entirely on tuition fees. That alone might force them to take a more pragmatic approach to some BA degrees.

TRfan23
11-11-10, 00:23
Well I'm planning to go to Uni next September (2011), so I won't be affected. Considering I've been told that by my second year and further years, I'd carry on with the current fees now.

Whilst I agree with a lot of the Tories ideas and methods, as to me they seem logical.
This is just ridiculous, it just seems like they're taking out on the students. (Though that's most likely not their actual intention).
Yes I know the Government needs the money to pay off the debts and apparently Labour got us into like trillions of £'s in debt, due to Spending :pi:

But surely they could have just risen other costs in other financial areas and not Uni's? If there's any?

Edit - Thankfully we have a student loan system!

btw - I don't know a great deal when it comes to money, but I know some ins and outs.

Mad Tony
11-11-10, 00:24
Once again another protest in London turns ugly and people get injured. Did the police not learn from the G20 riots?

I'm planning on going to uni next year so I'll miss out on the fee increases but I still agree with them. Virtually every government department is getting squeezed. The student loan system is really reasonable anyway.

Another Lara
11-11-10, 07:35
Don't get me wrong, of course I'd rather costs weren't rising too, but those who are saying 'oh crap, thats my future out the window, I cant go to uni now' are being a little overdramatic if you ask me.
Correct me if Im wrong, but you don't pay the costs upfront, do you? You start paying back the costs once you're earning over a certain amount of money AFTER you've been awarded your qualification. At least that's the case if you take out student loans, which I have done myself. I have my qualification and I wont start paying back until Im earning over £20,000 or something like that, and even then the rate at which you pay back isn't exactly going to drain your bank account. Im in Scotland though, so maybe it works slightly different down south.

Either way, violence may be an option for a few things, but I don't think this is one of them.


This! People are making such a big fuss over nothing! I was annoyed at first until I actually took time to look into what the actual details were and realised that it's not as bad as all the potential students are making it out to be! But then I suppose as the ones that seem to be moaning are still just teenagers, a drama has to be made out of something, right?! So if you want to throw a hissy fit and miss out on uni because you can't be bothered to read the small print then good for you!;)

As for the protest, sure every generation of uni students have to protest about something (I did!) but the fact it got as bad as it did really was just pathetic, childish and stupid! For a group of people who are supposed to be smart, they really proved themselves to be nothing other than brainless yobs! :mad:


I'm planning on going to uni next year so I'll miss out on the fee increases but I still agree with them. Virtually every government department is getting squeezed. The student loan system is really reasonable anyway.

One of the few times I agree with you lol! ;)

Not every uni is going to put their fees up, especially to the maximum fee, as obviously they won't be getting students! Oxbridge wouldn't have any issues obviously and I'm sure will be rubbing their hands with this, but all the other unis around the country who don't have such a massive reputation to rely on will need other ways of attracting the students.

Also, as said above, you don't pay the fees straight away, it's all automatically paid for you via the student loan company, which you only start paying back when you're in a job that pays over a certain amount, so depending on what you go on to do, you may not even have to pay back a penny!!!

jaywalker
11-11-10, 07:39
As someone was once paraphrased and misquoted:

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good riot!"

scoopy_loopy
11-11-10, 07:56
WTF! How can they just just triple the cost?! :mad:

Johnnay
11-11-10, 08:01
how many people participated in the rally

and... did any TRF Member participate in it:)

jaywalker
11-11-10, 08:07
WTF! How can they just just triple the cost?! :mad:

read the whole thing not the `massively misleading` headlines.. :( they've allowed Unis to charge UPTO triple, its not an automatic they ALL will charge triple.. also they've changed the rules about how these fees are paid, before they had to be paid BY the student before they began learning, NOW they are paid BY the system and are not repaid until the student has met a list of criteria and is earning..

scoopy_loopy
11-11-10, 08:13
Ah, so you've adopted something like our system - that's good. :D Although I still don't see why the costs were allowed to triple, instantly. That's unfair.

jaywalker
11-11-10, 08:17
Ah, so you've adopted something like our system - that's good. :D Although I still don't see why the costs were allowed to triple, instantly. That's unfair.

they've been capped a while and obviously with cuts everywhere else means the `subsidy` that allowed that cap has gone, therefore someone has to pay the difference..

it was never ever going to be an easy thing to do, but if someone didnt do it then would only get worse.. like always, those that come along, see the issues and do things to try and fix it will be loathed/hated, then voted out and next people in will continue the same policies it will become a success and get the praise.. thats politics! :)

Miharu
11-11-10, 08:18
...I'm leaving school soon, I'm going to college and university well planning...

*tantrum*

**** SAKE!!!!

Is it just me or does Nick Clegg and all the political *******s in the media talk about how education and having a good job and qualification is important? And then they talk about lowering fees and funds so everyone can be equal bla bla...

LIARS ****ING LIARS. This really angered me to be honest.

jaywalker
11-11-10, 08:20
...I'm leaving school soon, I'm going to college and university well planning...

*tantrum*

**** SAKE!!!!

Is it just me or does Nick Clegg and all the political *******s in the media talk about how education and having a good job and qualification is important? And then they talk about lowering fees and funds so everyone can be equal bla bla...

LIARS ****ING LIARS. This really angered me to be honest.

read the last few posts.. yes i can appreciate/understand your anger, but use your noggin and read all the facts before deciding its the end of the world based on the ones who rioted yesterday:)

Miharu
11-11-10, 08:31
read the last few posts.. yes i can appreciate/understand your anger, but use your noggin and read all the facts before deciding its the end of the world based on the ones who rioted yesterday:)

My only excuse is I haven't being asleep at all. So I tend not to read previous posts when I'm sleep deprived.

But I'm sat down with a mug o' tea and I'm happy now.:)

jaywalker
11-11-10, 08:36
My only excuse is I haven't being asleep at all. So I tend not to read previous posts when I'm sleep deprived.

But I'm sat down with a mug o' tea and I'm happy now.:)

good good :) i just got my second cuppa of the day :)

moodydog
11-11-10, 09:36
Ohh well, you seem to know him. But then only he knows for sure if he can actually afford it.

It only means taking a massive student loan... which I am not sure that banks are fully willing to give all students the full amount of around 12000 a year (that is plus food and homes). That's on average 36000! And then you will be paying that off for the rest of your life. But tbh... the payback rate is incredibly low... its like £5 a week. You will just be tied to it for the rest of your life. If you still haven't paid it off within around 36 years, it will get paid off for you.
My graphics teacher had this deal where as he taught for 10 years and got it paid off for him.

Plus on top of that... you will probably need to take out a mortgage, car loans and what not! Everyone prepare to be ****ed for the rest of your life.

In my opinion... just don't think about it... its the only rare circumstance that if you don't think about it, it will sort of go away :p


how many people participated in the rally

and... did any TRF Member participate in it:)

I am going to if/ when the protest in Manchester!

I am not a fan of violence at all, and I think this is definitely over the top. There is no excuse for actions like this.

There were a couple of thousand of angry students there... it was bound to happen. Its not a case of is there any excuse for what happened or not... its a case of students being angry about something they have every right to get angry about... and acting like... students. The police force wern't actually complaining... and no one was 'not condoning' what happened as they spoke on the news.

Another Lara
11-11-10, 09:52
It only means taking a massive student loan... which I am not sure that banks are fully willing to give all students the full amount of around 12000 a year (that is plus food and homes). That's on average 36000! And then you will be paying that off for the rest of your life. But tbh... the payback rate is incredibly low... its like £5 a week. You will just be tied to it for the rest of your life. If you still haven't paid it off within around 36 years, it will get paid off for you.
My graphics teacher had this deal where as he taught for 10 years and got it paid off for him.

Plus on top of that... you will probably need to take out a mortgage, car loans and what not! Everyone prepare to be ****ed for the rest of your life.

In my opinion... just don't think about it... its the only rare circumstance that if you don't think about it, it will sort of go away :p


.

It's not the banks who give the loans it's an actual company that specifically deals with student loans! This means they will know the limits of each uni and the costs of living etc and so will pay what they need to.

When you have a student loan, it doesn't count towards anything else you get in life, like a car or a mortgage as it's a completely different thing. The fact that my student loan comes out of my wages before tax while anothe rloan I ahve comes out of my bank account at a random date each month shows that it's not treated like a normal loan...

Honestly, people need to stop worrying about it! The only thing that will financially ruin students is the rising cost of living!!!

Mad Tony
11-11-10, 11:11
Amazing how the Lib Dems will be completely wiped out in the next election.

Avalon SARL
11-11-10, 12:16
That's ridiculous
Ok, fine if you wanna raise the fees, but this is just so huge... unacceptable...
What were they thinking when they scored out the final numbers :confused:

Good thing is that they are protesting :)