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View Full Version : And the ridiculous lawsuit story of the day award goes to....


Catapharact
12-11-10, 14:35
Daniel Hogan... For claiming that he invented the concept of "falling from space."

Skydive from space canceled after legal claim

Source: http://newslite.tv/2010/10/13/skydive-from-space-canceled-af.html

http://newsliteimgs.s3.amazonaws.com/101013_spacefall.jpg

Felix Baumgartner has been forced to cancel plans to skydive from the edge of space after a legal challenge was launched against his Red Bull Stratos project

The daredevil had been scheduled to complete a stratospheric balloon flight to 120,000 feet and attempt a free-fall jump that would reach supersonic speeds later this year.

But that's now been cancelled after organisers Red Bull received notice that a multi-million dollar lawsuit had been filed against them by another skydiver.

Daniel Hogan claims he "owns certain rights to the project" and that Red Bull stole confidential plans he had developed for the stunt. We bet they now wish they could push him out of a plane.

A spokesperson for Red Bull said: "Despite the fact that many other people over the past 50 years have tried to break Colonel (Ret.) Joe Kittinger's record, Mr. Hogan claims to own certain rights to the project and filed a multi million dollar lawsuit earlier this year in a Californian court.

"Red Bull has acted appropriately in its prior dealings with Mr. Hogan, and will demonstrate this as the case progresses. Due to the lawsuit, we have decided to stop the project until this case has been resolved.

xXhayleyroxXx
12-11-10, 14:38
What an idiot:rolleyes:

Ward Dragon
12-11-10, 14:45
So what exactly is he claiming? Did he develop some specific engineering project to pull off the stunt and they took his idea? Or is he really just claiming ownership of the general concept of diving from that height? :confused:

Encore
12-11-10, 14:45
WTF..... This is beyond ridiculous. I hope he loses.

Sir Croft
12-11-10, 14:48
He's jealous he's not as awesome as a dude falling from space. Literally.

Ward Dragon
12-11-10, 14:52
He's jealous he's not as awesome as a dude falling from space. Literally.

I reread the story and it sounds like he came up with a specific plan to pull off the stunt and then the company stole his plan for the other guy to use. If that's the case, then maybe he's got a point. I guess it depends how detailed his plan was, and whether it seems like common sense or not. I don't know what actually happened here, but stunts usually involve a fair bit of ingenuity and building props and whatnot, so it's possible he really did get ripped off. The article is too vague to know what the case is actually claiming.

Encore
12-11-10, 14:54
I reread the story and it sounds like he came up with a specific plan to pull off the stunt and then the company stole his plan for the other guy to use. If that's the case, then maybe he's got a point. I guess it depends how detailed his plan was, and whether it seems like common sense or not. I don't know what actually happened here, but stunts usually involve a fair bit of ingenuity and building props and whatnot, so it's possible he really did get ripped off. The article is too vague to know what the case is actually claiming.

There's only so much one can do to successfully pull this off. I seriously doubt that his plans were THAT unique.

Sir Croft
12-11-10, 14:55
In this case, I guess he might be right. I don't think anyone would try to face a big company like Red Bull if they didn't hold any right over the project. Red Bull might have stolen the project and improved it so it could work properly. Still, he's got lots to prove.

Catapharact
12-11-10, 14:58
So what exactly is he claiming? Did he develop some specific engineering project to pull off the stunt and they took his idea? Or is he really just claiming ownership of the general concept of diving from that height? :confused:

There is a specific procedure that is being used by the Red Bull Stratos team that he says that he specifically designed. But that's like saying that the man who discovered fire should be able to sue the world in general for using it :p. I don't think he even categorized it as his intellectual property or patented it.

If you want to know more about the Redbull Stratos project, check their website out:

http://www.redbullstratos.com/

Ward Dragon
12-11-10, 15:04
There's only so much one can do to successfully pull this off. I seriously doubt that his plans were THAT unique.

I tried finding other articles. Hogan is claiming that he proposed the idea to the Red Bull company in 2004 and gave them the technical specifications for how to build the pressurized helium capsule and the diver's suit and even arranged meetings with other companies to build the devices and to set up publicity for the event. However Red Bull canceled the project and told him to go away in 2005. Now they are apparently using his plans to pull off the stunt with another person. I don't know if their pressurized helium capsule and diver's suit are identical to the ones Hogan designed, but if they are then I think he'll probably win the lawsuit.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/aviation/news/lawsuit-red-bull-stratos-freefall

http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20101015/sc_space/recordbreakingredbullspacedivegroundedbylawsuit

Catapharact
12-11-10, 15:10
I don't know if their pressurized helium capsule and diver's suit are identical to the ones Hogan designed, but if they are then I think he'll probably win the lawsuit.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/aviation/news/lawsuit-red-bull-stratos-freefall

http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20101015/sc_space/recordbreakingredbullspacedivegroundedbylawsuit

They aren't actually. While his designs were solid, there were a lot of possible deviations with stability issues with the capsule and pressure lock system on the suit. Red Bull then later on decided to re-vist the project with MODIFIED variants of both the suit and the capsule. Should NASA be suing Red Bull as well for making a suit similar to their EVAs? I hope not.

Ward Dragon
12-11-10, 15:17
They aren't actually. While his designs were solid, there were a lot of possible deviations with stability issues with the capsule and pressure lock system on the suit. Red Bull then later on decided to re-vist the project with MODIFIED variants of both the suit and the capsule. Should NASA be suing Red Bull as well for making a suit similar to their EVAs? I hope not.

The fact remains that Red Bull had access to Hogan's documents. If they didn't buy the rights to use his plans, then even if they modified it they'll probably still get in trouble. I mean, there's a difference between using a general idea that should be public knowledge (for example, what a space suit looks like) versus building based upon someone else's actual blueprints without their permission. If Red Bull used Hogan's plans at all when designing their stunt, they should have gotten permission first. And if they came up with their stunt completely independently of his plans, then that should be easy enough to prove in court so we'll have to see how it goes :p

Catapharact
12-11-10, 15:30
The fact remains that Red Bull had access to Hogan's documents. If they didn't buy the rights to use his plans, then even if they modified it they'll probably still get in trouble. I mean, there's a difference between using a general idea that should be public knowledge (for example, what a space suit looks like) versus building based upon someone else's actual blueprints without their permission.

But Hogan only made contracts with Red Bull for recognition for his services and time he gave them making plans for the stunt. He never told them that the plans he was making with them were his intellectual property and his property alone. He didn't tell em that they cannot go ahead with the project without his permission. Heck had Redbull known all of this, I don't think they would have hired him for their consultation work.

When I give financial advice to someone, I only take the fee I charge for my services; I don't ask the client to pay me royalties for the profit they make because of my input :p.

Ward Dragon
12-11-10, 15:34
But Hogan only made contracts with Red Bull for recognition for his services and time he gave them making plans for the stunt. He never told them that the plans he was making with them were his intellectual property and his property alone. He didn't tell em that they cannot go ahead with the project without his permission. Heck had Redbull known all of this, I don't think they would have hired him for their consultation work.

When I give financial advice to someone, I only take the fee I charge for my services; I don't ask the client to pay me royalties for the profit they make because of my input :p.

I think the part in bold is what he's suing over. One of the articles said that he was complaining about not being mentioned at all in any of the credits for the stunt.

Tonyrobinson
12-11-10, 15:38
Reminds me of the embarassment of which is N.Ireland judges! :p

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/judge-hands-speeding-motorist-a-1p-fine-14976213.html

Ward Dragon
12-11-10, 15:44
Reminds me of the embarassment of which is N.Ireland judges! :p

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/judge-hands-speeding-motorist-a-1p-fine-14976213.html

That's ridiculous XD


“Young people are being cautioned for assaults and others for thefts. Here is a man of 52; of good character with no previous and he is prosecuted for being 15mph over the limit. Where is the discretion?”

So basically that judge thinks it's okay to act negligently and put other people's lives at risk as long as there are worse criminals out there? And he's trying to blame the prosecutors for enforcing the law? Some judges seem to have lost touch with reality...

Catapharact
12-11-10, 15:55
I think the part in bold is what he's suing over. One of the articles said that he was complaining about not being mentioned at all in any of the credits for the stunt.

I just think Mr. Hogan blew a gasket over not being mentioned anywhere on the Stratos website :p. It just irks me that issues such as these end up creating unwarranted barriers for projects such as this. I am a skydiving enthusiast and I so want to see this project succeed :D.

voltz
12-11-10, 20:02
I know he should have told Redbull not to go ahead with this, but instead he squatted and waited for his $$$ ticket.

@%#$ like this needs to be thrown out of the legal system.

Little-Lara
12-11-10, 23:42
.....
A spokesperson for Red Bull said: "Despite the fact that many other people over the past 50 years have tried to break Colonel (Ret.) Joe Kittinger's record, Mr. Hogan claims to own certain rights to the project and filed a multi million dollar lawsuit earlier this year in a Californian court.
...

IMO this line is the deal breaker. If Red Bull is telling the truth about many other people trying it then they should be fine. Otherwise Mr. Hogan is just shacking Red Bull "by the horns for a ride with payoffs" :D