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ggctuk
09-12-10, 20:33
It's official.

Breakdown:

*323 MPs voted 'Yes', 302 voted 'no'
*Six Conservative MPs rebelled and voted 'no'
* 21 Liberal Democrats voted against
* 8 Lib Dem MPs abstained
* 28 Lib Dems voted for the policy
* Labour MPs voted against

Source (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/University-Tuition-Fees-MPs-Vote-To-Increase-Tuition-Fees-To-Up-To-9000-Despite-Rebellions/Article/201012215850830?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15850830_University_Tuition_Fees%3A_MP s_Vote_To_Increase_Tuition_Fees_To_Up_To_%3F9%2C00 0_Despite_Rebellions)

xXhayleyroxXx
09-12-10, 20:45
Lib Dem have turned traitor. The government have also stopped EMA -- which is all that has keep my family going bankrupt a second time. My sister won't get it.

I'm furious.

Archetype
09-12-10, 20:47
Lib Dem have turned traitor. The government have also stopped EMA -- which is all that has keep my family going bankrupt a second time. My sister won't get it.

I'm furious.

Well they didn't know they were going to get into power so...

Clegg doesn't even have to look in the mirror anymore, he just has to look at david cameron.

xXhayleyroxXx
09-12-10, 20:49
Well they didn't know they were going to get into power so...

Clegg doesn't even have to look in the mirror anymore, he just has to look at david cameron.

They don't have to go along with everything the tories want. I thought that was why they were chosen to make decisions alongside them. Whatever happened to thinking about the people? The poor? The things that matter.

Archetype
09-12-10, 20:52
They don't have to go along with everything the tories want. I thought that was why they were chosen to make decisions alongside them. Whatever happened to thinking about the people? The poor? The things that matter.

They got a wiff of power and sold their souls.

xXhayleyroxXx
09-12-10, 20:55
They got a wiff of power and sold their souls.

And now it looks like the North is going to fall into poverty once more. And families like mine.

ultima espio
09-12-10, 21:01
Looks like I'm never gonna go to Uni at all:o

Spong
09-12-10, 21:02
LOL, I just heard on the news a little while ago that, as they were on their way to some show, Prince Charles and his horse were attacked in their car by a load of student protesters.

ggctuk
09-12-10, 21:04
LOL, I just heard on the news a little while ago that, as they were on their way to some show, Price Charles and his horse were attacked in their car by a load of student protesters.

Funny, because there's nothing they can do about student fees. In fact, no member of the Royal family can interfere in Parliament. It's been that way since Cromwell.

Spong
09-12-10, 21:06
Funny, because there's nothing they can do about student fees. In fact, no member of the Royal family can interfere in Parliament. It's been that way since Cromwell.

Completely pointless, I agree. Funny though.

lararoxs
09-12-10, 21:31
I love students LOL j/k I'm Nick Clegg.

Of course the increase is the main issue but I find I'm more annoyed at the fact a party makes a pledge on the run up to an election, gains seats - resulting in a coalition formed and it's a game of 'What pledge?' Cameron has it right, he just has to say "Skinny latte please, Nick" and there you go. Clegg's got some serious trust issues now, not only with the electorate but with his own party.

Lib Dem have turned traitor. The government have also stopped EMA -- which is all that has keep my family going bankrupt a second time. My sister won't get it.

I'm furious.


EMA is being stopped at the end of this academic year but the Government are focusing on the 'priority' groups that get EMA. The lowest earners will still get it but as of yet, it's unknown what the replacement is and when it'll be introduced.

aidanmalone
09-12-10, 21:38
Now im really put off from going to uni :mad:
And ive still got a year of college left without EMA ill just have to skip education alltogether and work for the rest of my life.
Although i see that these would help the teaching systems and more money channeling into universities vast amount of places would drop in education :(
And i think the student protests have gotten a little out of hand....

Mad Tony
09-12-10, 22:04
And now it looks like the North is going to fall into poverty once more. And families like mine.Will you stop with this victimization of the north? Fact is people will be hit hard but it'll be across the board. Please don't act like the north is the only part of the country which will be badly affected.

I'm personally delighted this bill has got through. It's completely necessary.

Props to the Lib Dem MPs who voted for it because they must be fearing for the safety of them and their family after what these "protesters" have been threatening. At the same time, you've got to laugh at Nick Clegg's backtracking. Absolute genius move by the Tories as the Lib Dems are getting more flak than anyone else.

What I'm not happy about are the "protests". Well, the violent part of it anyway. Absolutely pathetic. I personally would like to see more heavy-handed police tactics used on the violent protesters.

xXhayleyroxXx
09-12-10, 22:07
Will you stop with this victimization of the north? Fact is people will be hit hard but it'll be across the board. Please don't act like the north is the only part of the country which will be badly affected.

I'm personally delighted this bill has got through. It's completely necessary.

Props to the Lib Dem MPs who voted for it because they must be fearing for the safety of them and their family after what these "protesters" have been threatening. At the same time, you've got to laugh at Nick Clegg's backtracking. Absolute genius move by the Tories as the Lib Dems are getting more flak than anyone else.

What I'm not happy about are the "protests". Well, the violent part of it anyway. Absolutely pathetic. I personally would like to see more heavy-handed police tactics used on the violent protesters.

Say that to us from the North :p That toffee nose down south is making the wrong decisions. :pi: And as for the protests they are getting out of hand -- especially for the poor police horses.

Mad Tony
09-12-10, 22:09
Say that to us from the North :p That toffee nose down south is making the wrong decisions. :pi: And as for the protests they are getting out of hand -- especially for the poor police horses.I just did. I can understand why the north was hit worse under Thatcher because of all mining industries up there but these public sector cuts are across almost every department. At most the north will be slightly more worse off.

As for the protests - I'm more concerned about the police and innocent passers-by.

Lara's Nemesis
09-12-10, 22:11
I really don't think the Government should be targetting Education in their cost cutting. I also think the Liberal Democrats have harmed their chances of ever becoming the governing body with this.

xXhayleyroxXx
09-12-10, 22:11
I just did. I can understand why the north was hit worse under Thatcher because of all mining industries up there but these public sector cuts are across almost every department. At most the north will be slightly more worse off.

As for the protests - I'm more concerned about the police and innocent passers-by.

Its an expression:p
Urgh I'm proper annoyed about this -- I do not like Nick Clegg now :pi:

TombOfRaiders
09-12-10, 22:14
Say that to us from the North :p That toffee nose down south is making the wrong decisions. :pi: And as for the protests they are getting out of hand -- especially for the poor police horses.

I find the protests to be absolutely necessary. I would gladly join them.

With a pile of Anest and a Mosin-Nagant to take those horses out. :pi: CHING! JACKPOT!!??!?!?!?!?!!!!

xXhayleyroxXx
09-12-10, 22:16
I find the protests to be absolutely necessary. I would gladly join them.

With a pile of Anest and a Mosin-Nagant to take those horses out. :pi: CHING! JACKPOT!!??!?!?!?!?!!!!


Ooooerr come say that to my face boy :p

Mad Tony
09-12-10, 22:17
I really don't think the Government should be targetting Education in their cost cutting. I also think the Liberal Democrats have harmed their chances of ever becoming the governing body with this.Why not? Everywhere else (bar Health and International Development) is seeing cuts. My only criticism of the cuts is that they haven't cut anything from the two above areas.

TombOfRaiders
09-12-10, 22:18
Ooooerr come say that to my face boy :p

Whaaaaaat!? Anest just sedates them. I was just making a suggestion.

I heard a load of students from Canterbury took the bus to go protest. Just goes to show what measures they would take to prove their point in all this.

Mad Tony
09-12-10, 22:19
I heard a load of students from Canterbury took the bus to go protest. Just goes to show what measures they would take to prove their point in all this.Canterbury isn't that far from London lol.

TombOfRaiders
09-12-10, 22:21
Canterbury isn't that far from London lol.

I know. I live in the South-East Region. :p

xXhayleyroxXx
09-12-10, 22:21
Whaaaaaat!? Anest just sedates them. I was just making a suggestion.

I heard a load of students from Canterbury took the bus to go protest. Just goes to show what measures they would take to prove their point in all this.

Then they'd probably get hurt by other people :( Police horses are very proud, and they like to do a good job. I agree in protesting, its just some people are getting a bit crazy, I think.
I admit I love the signs saying "I'm so angry I made a sign" :p

TRfan23
09-12-10, 22:21
Those students in the protests are a bunch of retards ;)

When I actually looked up at this bill, it makes sense and there's a way around it - Student Loans...

Plus the fact that I doubt universities such as Christ Church would up the tuition fees, considering the bill is only permitting them to raise them afaik.
Ones such as Oxford most likely will though...

Lara's Nemesis
09-12-10, 22:23
Why not? Everywhere else (bar Health and International Development) is seeing cuts. My only criticism of the cuts is that they haven't cut anything from the two above areas.

We should be encouraging everyone that wants further education. I don't want to see it become elitist which it is now in danger of becoming imo.

Mad Tony
09-12-10, 22:25
We should be encouraging everyone that wants further education. I don't want to see it become elitist which it is now in danger of becoming imo.People are encouraged to go to university, that's why the likes of Aim Higher are always doing the rounds at schools and colleges. As somebody who is in their second year of college and just sent off my applications I can assure you students are very much encouraged to go.

xXhayleyroxXx
09-12-10, 22:25
We should be encouraging everyone that wants further education. I don't want to see it become elitist which it is now in danger of becoming imo.

Universities were expensive before this -- its why I didn't go. But now its beyond ridiculous.

Mad Tony
09-12-10, 22:43
Not entirely related but interesting none the less.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10963393

The Lib Dems poll ratings have sunk to 8%. They're gonna get completely smashed in the next election. Unfortunately that will probably mean more votes for Labour.

xXhayleyroxXx
09-12-10, 22:47
Not entirely related but interesting none the less.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10963393

The Lib Dems poll ratings have sunk to 8%. They're gonna get completely smashed in the next election. Unfortunately that will probably mean more votes for Labour.

You're damn right :p

Archetype
09-12-10, 23:28
Why not? Everywhere else (bar Health and International Development) is seeing cuts. My only criticism of the cuts is that they haven't cut anything from the two above areas.

Like the NHS needs a reduction in spending, sheesh :rolleyes:

Beans-Bot
10-12-10, 00:15
Because we really should discourage people from getting an education when it would count the most. :rolleyes: And as far as student loans go, they're not the best option. Nobody wants to be trapped in debt for years afterward. Just because America so greatly embraces them doesn't meet you lot have to. They sound great on paper but can turn ugly on a dime.

But I'm more upset about the police handling the protests. Randomly breaking out horses, spraying protesters with straight-up poison, kettling minors in the freezing cold, they should be ashamed.

Love2Raid
10-12-10, 00:39
Poor Brits. How are you guys going to pay for this? :o:confused:
Loans loans loans?

Spong
10-12-10, 01:15
The Lib Dems poll ratings have sunk to 8%. They're gonna get completely smashed in the next election. Unfortunately that will probably mean more votes for Labour.

You say it like the Lib Dems are the only criminals in this farce. I imagine the Conservatives stand to lose just as many votes come the next election.

Ward Dragon
10-12-10, 01:36
You say it like the Lib Dems are the only criminals in this farce. I imagine the Conservatives stand to lose just as many votes come the next election.

I've gotten the impression that the people who voted Conservative would likely support these budget cuts and are therefore likely to continue to vote Conservative in the future. On the other hand, the people who voted Lib Dem did so under the belief that the Lib Dem's would implement certain policies, so if the Lib Dem's are going back on their word now their voters will probably just go back to voting for Labour instead.

TRfan23
10-12-10, 02:10
I've gotten the impression that the people who voted Conservative would likely support these budget cuts and are therefore likely to continue to vote Conservative in the future. On the other hand, the people who voted Lib Dem did so under the belief that the Lib Dem's would implement certain policies, so if the Lib Dem's are going back on their word now their voters will probably just go back to voting for Labour instead.

Which is going to be an issue. As they're a government that just spend on jack all... causing chaos for the recession, making even larger debts :pi:

Oh yeh and give extra credit to those who live off benefits ;)

lunavixen
10-12-10, 02:14
doesn't the UK have fee deferrment like we do?

we have the option once or if we get into uni to partially or wholly defer our fees until we get jobs that earn over a certain amount and then its taken out of the pay incrementally, Uni here also has whats called CSP, or Commonwealth Supported Places (which is how you get the fee deferment), basically meaning that our places are paid for by the Government, but we gradually pay it back later. we also have the Direct Fee option as well, basically we pay for our units upfront as we enrol in them

silviu_raider
10-12-10, 08:07
doesn't the UK have fee deferrment like we do?

we have the option once or if we get into uni to partially or wholly defer our fees until we get jobs that earn over a certain amount and then its taken out of the pay incrementally, Uni here also has whats called CSP, or Commonwealth Supported Places (which is how you get the fee deferment), basically meaning that our places are paid for by the Government, but we gradually pay it back later. we also have the Direct Fee option as well, basically we pay for our units upfront as we enrol in them

I am applying to study in UK and what you wrote there is possible.
Student loans, they're possible but some people don't want to pay for years, now tripled.

TR FAN 18
10-12-10, 09:20
I'm NEVER going to Uni with fees at 9,000 a year. I thought 3,000 was expensive enough but 9K is a JOKE! :mad:

I'll stick with Open University.

I also want to say that attacking the Royal Family was a bit too extreme. It's NOT their fault. Blame the government!

lunavixen
10-12-10, 09:37
my uni fees are at about $15000AU (i don't know what that is in pounds) for the last 3 years, but i have 6 months left yet

TR FAN 18
10-12-10, 09:38
According to XE.com:

$15,000AU = 9,363.35

So, now we're paying nearly the same as what students in Australia have to pay.

DragonSlayer
10-12-10, 10:17
Saw the riots on sky news last night lol at prince charles car getting hit.

Tomb Ra1der
10-12-10, 11:11
The Green party are the new Lib Dems. Every liberal should vote Green at the next set of elections!

xXhayleyroxXx
10-12-10, 11:24
The Green party are the new Lib Dems. Every liberal should vote Green at the next set of elections!

Green party electives came to my old high school and they were convincing. They'll probably never get a place though :(

Mad Tony
10-12-10, 11:36
Like the NHS needs a reduction in spending, sheesh :rolleyes:It could be argued that most departments don't need a reduction in spending. Fact is though, we have a huge crisis on our hands and the cuts should be indiscriminate where possible. I could understand cutting the NHS less but it should at least be cut to some extent. Other areas are getting hit extremely hard.

That said, I understand the Tories had to make this pledge to protect the beloved NHS otherwise they wouldn't have won the election.

Because we really should discourage people from getting an education when it would count the most. :rolleyes:Take it from somebody who lives here, people are encouraged, not discouraged.

But I'm more upset about the police handling the protests. Randomly breaking out horses, spraying protesters with straight-up poison, kettling minors in the freezing cold, they should be ashamed.So the violent acts of some of the protesters doesn't bother you at all? At the very least both sides are just as much to blame.

You say it like the Lib Dems are the only criminals in this farce. I imagine the Conservatives stand to lose just as many votes come the next election.Oh no, I understand it's the Tories' idea I just find it funny how the Lib Dems' obsession with getting into government after all these decades out of it will be their downfall.

It's not a farce though. There really is no other option.

The Green party are the new Lib Dems. Every liberal should vote Green at the next set of elections!God help us if they ever get any sort of power.

TRLegendLuver
10-12-10, 13:34
I guess everything is raising everywhere now. The US's college tuitions have been atrocious here for years and are inly getting worse. It won't be before too long that I'm going to have give up all my limbs for them. *shakes head* :pi:

larson n natla
10-12-10, 13:40
Sad really, my options have now been cut because like many others I am working class and live in the north of England.

Either I will have to work for a few years after sixth form to afford university or I'll have to move abroad for education? I don't agree with the violence students have shown but I do agree that Nick Clegg has single handedly crippled his own party. Nobody of our generation will vote willingly to put the Lib Dems in power after they went back on their policy of no fees to increasing them up to 9000 per year.

Legend 4ever
10-12-10, 13:55
That's too bad. I'm starting my Master's in London in 3 years and I was thinking about a price range of 3,000-6,000. I might have to save up more now:/

Mad Tony
10-12-10, 13:56
Sad really, my options have now been cut because like many others I am working class and live in the north of England.Why is that relevant?

Either I will have to work for a few years after sixth form to afford university or I'll have to move abroad for education? I don't agree with the violence students have shown but I do agree that Nick Clegg has single handedly crippled his own party. Nobody of our generation will vote willingly to put the Lib Dems in power after they went back on their policy of no fees to increasing them up to 9000 per year.Or you could just take out a student loan, which is what most people will do. Yeah, you'll have to pay more, but the system is really reasonable.

By the way, the uni changes don't come into affect until next year. If you're applying this year you pay the standard 3,000.

ggctuk
10-12-10, 14:25
Ironically most of the people protesting are already at university so they should be safe. What both does and doesn't surprise me is the presence of under-16s who are not even at college yet. Their parents should have the book thrown at them, as should those who attacked Prince Charles and Camilla (who had nothing to do with this), and who defiled the Churchill statue and war memorials. Those that attacked the police horses should be arrested and charged with animal cruelty. I would never presume to blame every single person there for the actions of a few, though. And I do think police could have handled things better.

Personally there are places that are better change rather than student fees (IE Foreign aid, but that's a discussion for another day). I don't really agree with the changes but I understood then as I do now that even if we don't like it, it may be the only way.

xXhayleyroxXx
10-12-10, 15:59
Why is that relevant?


You'll never understand until you live here for at least a year :p

larson n natla
10-12-10, 16:11
1.Why is that relevant?

2.Or you could just take out a student loan, which is what most people will do. Yeah, you'll have to pay more, but the system is really reasonable.

3.By the way, the uni changes don't come into affect until next year. If you're applying this year you pay the standard 3,000.

1. The North West has a growing population. More people are applying for university than ever before, making places relatively scarce. University's around this region range from outstanding to appalling due to lack of money for equipment and specialist teachers. Naturally for me to have better opportunities later in life I would like to study at a well renowned and respected university. As I'm sure you know Tony a degree from Edge Hill university and a degree from Harvard university are not equal. If I were to attend a university in my area and were paying 9000 per year I would expect an equally good education as in other areas such as the south. This isn't the case as many who have studied and gained many qualifications are rejected in place of people with the same qualifications from different universities.

2. That's the plan but I'll need to work for a while in order to have any way to pay it back. Thank you for the suggestion ;)

3. Unfortunately I won't be applying until a few years time but again thanks for the information.

I apologise for the long post. :o

lara c. fan
10-12-10, 16:39
It looks like I'm going to survive on cheap noodles if I ever go to Uni, then. :p

Goose
10-12-10, 17:48
Sad really, my options have now been cut because like many others I am working class and live in the north of England.



Im working class, because i work for a living. You come across as a student to me, which isnt working class at all, as these riots proove, working class citizens put into the economy, they dont expect to be taking out of it, and they dont get violent when told they have to put some work in like the rest of us.

If you are working class, then do as you believe you should be, WORK! Degrees are a second, and can be saved up for.

Joely-Moley
10-12-10, 18:19
http://i52.************/33d9t77.jpg

http://i55.************/125s7k7.jpg

In all serious though, I'm all for peaceful protests and I can understand people being upset but the riots yesterday were ridiculous, totally counter-productive. I wouldn't even call them protesters, I think a lot of them were just there looking to cause trouble.

Mad Tony
10-12-10, 18:20
1. The North West has a growing population. More people are applying for university than ever before, making places relatively scarce. University's around this region range from outstanding to appalling due to lack of money for equipment and specialist teachers. Naturally for me to have better opportunities later in life I would like to study at a well renowned and respected university. As I'm sure you know Tony a degree from Edge Hill university and a degree from Harvard university are not equal. If I were to attend a university in my area and were paying 9000 per year I would expect an equally good education as in other areas such as the south. This isn't the case as many who have studied and gained many qualifications are rejected in place of people with the same qualifications from different universities.There are plenty of good universities in the north. Just go check on the league tables. The thing about degrees is that people go to all different parts of the country to get them. You coming from a family that doesn't have a lot of money would limit your options, but coming from the north of England is pretty irrelevant and wouldn't have an impact on your options.

You'll never understand until you live here for at least a year :pI just don't get this northern victim complex.

xXhayleyroxXx
10-12-10, 18:36
I just don't get this northern victim complex.

That's what I'm saying -- You'd have to live here to understand it. The South is so different.

Archetype
10-12-10, 18:36
The South is so different.

Yeah, you can understand what people are saying ; )

xXhayleyroxXx
10-12-10, 18:39
Yeah, you can understand what people are saying ; )

What do you mean? Of course I can understand what people are saying :confused:

Archetype
10-12-10, 18:39
What do you mean? Of course I can understand what people are saying :confused:

Was making fun of the northern accent :p

Mad Tony
10-12-10, 18:39
That's what I'm saying -- You'd have to live here to understand it. The South is so different.To understand what? There are good parts of the South and bad parts of the South. Exactly the same thing applies to the North.

xXhayleyroxXx
10-12-10, 18:41
To understand what? There are good parts of the South and bad parts of the South. Exactly the same thing applies to the North.

I know, its really difficult to explain.

@Archetype - :pi:

TRfan23
10-12-10, 18:43
The North West has a growing population. More people are applying for university than ever before, making places relatively scarce. University's around this region range from outstanding to appalling due to lack of money for equipment and specialist teachers. Naturally for me to have better opportunities later in life I would like to study at a well renowned and respected university. As I'm sure you know Tony a degree from Edge Hill university and a degree from Harvard university are not equal. If I were to attend a university in my area and were paying 9000 per year I would expect an equally good education as in other areas such as the south. This isn't the case as many who have studied and gained many qualifications are rejected in place of people with the same qualifications from different universities...

Well then take out a student loan, don't get a job that pays 19,000 (whatever the set amount actually is) or more a year. and you won't have to pay back the loan, then wait 25 years and it'll be scrapped.

What's wrong with that??? :confused:

Yeh the government won't get the money they need to pay off the debts as technically you're borrowing their money, and not paying it back. But to save you're own annoyance why won't you even just do that and stop complaining about it? (This also applies to every other student complaining about as well ;))

Mad Tony
10-12-10, 18:44
I know, its really difficult to explain. What is there to explain?

xXhayleyroxXx
10-12-10, 18:46
What is there to explain?

*facepalm* :pi:

larson n natla
10-12-10, 18:47
Im working class, because i work for a living. You come across as a student to me, which isnt working class at all, as these riots proove, working class citizens put into the economy, they dont expect to be taking out of it, and they dont get violent when told they have to put some work in like the rest of us.

If you are working class, then do as you believe you should be, WORK! Degrees are a second, and can be saved up for.

Evidently you didn't read my post fully. I already stated that I plan to work at least a year before university. I don't expect to take out of the economy I expect fair treatment. Why should I pay 9000 for the same education that somebody a few years older than me is paying less for. Its nonsensical.

I'm 15 and still in school so yes technically I am a student but I believe that as my family have worked their whole lives and put just enough money into the economy as the next family that I should be entitled to reasonably priced education. Also I'm not violent I already said I don't agree with the protests, did you even read my post? To finish I would just like to say that I aim to work and then get a degree so I can work at a better job. Thus putting the money I 'took out of the economy' back in.

Mad Tony who said we play the north victims, I'm not a victim of any sort but it is not up for argument it is proven that the south of the country is wealthier and has better services,for the most part, than the north. Education isn't as advanced, money for services is lower and at the end of the day the treatment isn't equal. Obviously I can't say that the south is a haven of mystical light because I don't live there, on the same hand you can not understand the north fully without living here.

Mad Tony
10-12-10, 19:02
*facepalm* :pi:Clearly nothing.

Mad Tony who said we play the north victims, I'm not a victim of any sort but it is not up for argument it is proven that the south of the country is wealthier and has better services,for the most part, than the north. Education isn't as advanced, money for services is lower and at the end of the day the treatment isn't equal. Obviously I can't say that the south is a haven of mystical light because I don't live there, on the same hand you can not understand the north fully without living here.The South is indeed better off overall. However, I believe the North of the country is actually given more funding, not less.

What I'm getting at here is that simply living in the North doesn't make you poorer or worse off by default.

lara c. fan
10-12-10, 19:06
Well then take out a student loan, don't get a job that pays 19,000 (whatever the set amount actually is) or more a year. and you won't have to pay back the loan, then wait 25 years and it'll be scrapped.

What's wrong with that??? :confused:

Yeh the government won't get the money they need to pay off the debts as technically you're borrowing their money, and not paying it back. But to save you're own annoyance why won't you even just do that and stop complaining about it? (This also applies to every other student complaining about as well ;))

21,000 a year (The set amount) isn't really enough to live on if you plan on doing anything much over those next 25 years. Having children would be murder on the finances, for example. So might having a wife, depending on circumstances. So holding out for 25 years (Which can, hell, leave you at close to 50), wouldn't be the best of ideas. Some would take paying off the debt instead of that.

xXhayleyroxXx
10-12-10, 19:08
Clearly nothing.


I can't understand why sometimes you seem like an okay person and the next you say something like this. Its not my problem you forgot what you were talking about. You wanna know why the majority of the North hate the tories and hate the fact people are gonna have to pay more for unis? You come and experience what life is like here yourself, which you'll never do, so you'll never know.

The North does not victimise itself -- and I agree with everything larson n natla is saying.

larson n natla
10-12-10, 19:08
Clearly nothing.

The South is indeed better off overall. However, I believe the North of the country is actually given more funding, not less.

What I'm getting at here is that simply living in the North doesn't make you poorer or worse off by default.

Yeah that's due to some of our less honest members who claim benefits because they are too lazy to find a job. :(

Of course it doesn't make us poorer or worse off but it does limit our options for the future. I have been extremely lucky in that I have been offered opportunities that others in my area haven't. Your clearly an intelligent guy Tony so I won't insult that but it is certainly easier to live life in the south than the north in my opinion. Anyway back on topic!

Mad Tony
10-12-10, 19:15
I can't understand why sometimes you seem like an okay person and the next you say something like this. Its not my problem you forgot what you were talking about. You wanna know why the majority of the North hate the tories and hate the fact people are gonna have to pay more for unis? You come and experience what life is like here yourself, which you'll never do, so you'll never know.The same could be said for you. Was there a need for the facepalm comment?

I thought we were talking about why Northerners have a victim complex? I don't care why the North hates the Tories and I already know why people across the whole country are against higher tuition fees.

The North does not victimise itselfNo, you do a perfectly fine job of it.

it is certainly easier to live life in the south than the north in my opinion.Depends where exactly you live and what background you come from.

Props to you though for putting your opinion across without throwing a tantrum.

xXhayleyroxXx
10-12-10, 19:18
The same could be said for you. Was there a need for the facepalm comment?

I thought we were talking about why Northerners have a victim complex? I don't care why the North hates the Tories and I already know why people across the whole country are against higher tuition fees.

No, you do a perfectly fine job of it.

Yes of course it was needed. I get sick of repeating myself. And I don't see how I make the North look like a victim. If I hated the poverty that much here I'd move down south :pi:

Goose
10-12-10, 19:20
Evidently you didn't read my post fully. I already stated that I plan to work at least a year before university. I don't expect to take out of the economy I expect fair treatment. Why should I pay 9000 for the same education that somebody a few years older than me is paying less for. Its nonsensical.

I'm 15 and still in school so yes technically I am a student but I believe that as my family have worked their whole lives and put just enough money into the economy as the next family that I should be entitled to reasonably priced education.

What is fair treatment? Treatment the same as your parents, your grandparents? Because University was only for the rich in there cases, its just that we got to bloated on benefits for nothing that we got to this stage where the prices have to go up.

Education up to college is free, thats beyond reasonable by standards across the world, there is no denying it, University is a luxury, not a right.

The reason why the average 'working class' person like myself thinks these arguments are a waste of time is due to the statistics. Its proven that throughout the uk, for the majority of degrees, less then 50% of the students get a job in there studied field. Im not happy at the thought of my tax money helping someone to waste 4 years of there lives doing a course they wont even use.

http://unistats.direct.gov.uk/subjectBrowse.do;jsessionid=6C794381B7F3584776027A C94F64CD33.worker1

I love the idea of studying guitar for 4 years, but id never expect the government to help me out, because right now its not in there best interests.

Mad Tony
10-12-10, 19:25
Yes of course it was needed. I get sick of repeating myself. And I don't see how I make the North look like a victim. If I hated the poverty that much here I'd move down south :pi:Maybe you should've explained why you think the North is so different instead of just saying "you haven't lived here so you wouldn't know".

What bugs me is that you seem to think the South is just full of rich people and will barely be affected by the spending cuts. You just did it there. "If I hated the poverty that much here I'd move down south". You do realize there are plenty of places up North that aren't deprived and plenty of places in the South that are don't you?

lara c. fan
10-12-10, 19:26
The reason why the average 'working class' person like myself thinks these arguments are a waste of time is due to the statistics. Its proven that throughout the uk, for the majority of degrees, less then 50% of the students get a job in there studied field. Im not happy at the thought of my tax money helping someone to waste 4 years of there lives doing a course they wont even use.

Surely you'd be happy to see your tax money help someone reach their dreams, right?

xXhayleyroxXx
10-12-10, 19:27
Maybe you should've explained why you think the North is so different instead of just saying "you haven't lived here so you wouldn't know".

What bugs me is that you seem to think the South is just full of rich people and will barely be affected by the spending cuts. You just did it there. "If I hated the poverty that much here I'd move down south". You do realize there are plenty of places up North that aren't deprived and plenty of places in the South that are don't you?

What :vlol: Firstly, that's not what I said first. Also, that's not what I think at all! The North is just suffering more.

Goose
10-12-10, 19:34
Surely you'd be happy to see your tax money help someone reach their dreams, right?

Nope, why would i want to spend my money helping someone learn a useless trade, when they themselves could go get a job and do the course part time? Or just save up the money and wait a few years?

There is no space in the current economic climate to be helping these people, not when theres things like the MOD, NHS, Prison service and all manner of other public services that need the money more.

Mad Tony
10-12-10, 19:35
What :vlol: Firstly, that's not what I said first. Also, that's not what I think at all! The North is just suffering more.As a result of spending cuts?

xXhayleyroxXx
10-12-10, 19:36
As a result of spending cuts?

Everything just adds up, so yes, partly.

Mad Tony
10-12-10, 21:11
Everything just adds up, so yes, partly.It's possible that spending cuts may marginally be harder felt in the North but really, is there any need to keep on banging on about the so-called plight of the North when the affects of the cuts are being similarly felt down South?

xXhayleyroxXx
10-12-10, 21:12
It's possible that spending cuts may marginally be harder felt in the North but really, is there any need to keep on banging on about the so-called plight of the North when the affects of the cuts are being similarly felt down South?

Yes when my family might go bankrupt a second time ;)

Mad Tony
10-12-10, 21:17
Yes when my family might go bankrupt a second time ;)There are plenty of families going bankrupt down here as well.

xXhayleyroxXx
10-12-10, 21:19
There are plenty of families going bankrupt down here as well.

You asked why I was 'banging on about it' so there's your answer.

Mad Tony
10-12-10, 21:20
You asked why I was 'banging on about it' so there's your answer.That's an odd reason.

xXhayleyroxXx
10-12-10, 21:26
That's an odd reason.

Not at all. Its nice for some to have money ;)

Mad Tony
10-12-10, 21:29
Not at all. Its nice for some to have money ;)Yeah, I get it, you think everyone is rich in the south.

xXhayleyroxXx
10-12-10, 21:31
Yeah, I get it, you think everyone is rich in the south.

No I don't. Quit assuming.

Mad Tony
10-12-10, 21:34
No I don't.It certainly seems as if you do...

xXhayleyroxXx
10-12-10, 21:38
It certainly seems as if you do...

To you maybe.

Beans-Bot
10-12-10, 21:39
I know this is late, but

So the violent acts of some of the protesters doesn't bother you at all? At the very least both sides are just as much to blame.

I do sympathize more with the protesters since I agree with them, but also they haven't reacted as extremely as the police (if only because they don't have the resources). I believe the police are using too much blunt force. Smashing windows and throwing things doesn't even hold a candle to forcing protesters (some of which were children) to stand in the freezing cold and (allegedly) spraying some protesters with Halon, a toxin used mainly to fight fires. The protesters may be violent, but the police are being inhumanely violent.

Edit: and I don't know about you, but raising tuition costs would certainly discourage me from perusing an education. My family isn't made of money. So that's why I believe that this discourages people from education when they should be greatly encouraged what with the standards for well-paying jobs rising steadily.

Mad Tony
10-12-10, 21:46
I do sympathize more with the protesters since I agree with them, but also they haven't reacted as extremely as the police (if only because they don't have the resources). I believe the police are using too much blunt force. Smashing windows and throwing things doesn't even hold a candle to forcing protesters (some of which were children) to stand in the freezing cold and (allegedly) spraying some protesters with Halon, a toxin used mainly to fight fires. The protesters may be violent, but the police are being inhumanely violent.That's ridiculous. The protesters are smashing windows (as you said) and assaulting people. The police officers are then having to react to that. I know the kettling tactic has come under a lot of scrutiny but what else is there? It's either that or risk letting them run wild and cause even more chaos. If a protest is peaceful, there is no need for the police to use any kind of force. I find it odd that you're condemning the police more for doing their jobs and trying to keep violent hooligans under control.

Do you have any proof that they're using these substances?

The Great Chi
10-12-10, 21:50
LOL, I just heard on the news a little while ago that, as they were on their way to some show, Prince Charles and his horse were attacked in their car by a load of student protesters.And his horse :vlol:

I assume you mean Camilla :D

Does she really look like a horse close up :confused:

Joely-Moley
10-12-10, 21:51
I understand the police were under a lot of pressure, but I think CHARGING at them with horses was a bit extreme. I think if anything that got them all angrier and more aggressive.

Beans-Bot
10-12-10, 21:52
http://yfrog.com/2qhvd0j

Halon usually comes in green containers, which lead people to believe that Halon was being sprayed in the above picture. I realize it's just the one officer, but that doesn't make the action any less amoral.

The main thing I have against the kettling was that it seemed to go on for too long. Many of the protesters essentially begged to be set free after they had clearly calmed down yet the police wouldn't let them out.

Edit: As much as I'd hate to somewhat defend them, saying the horses charged the crowd is an overstatement. I've seen videos, it was more of a fast trot than a charge. Still unnecessary, though.

@TheGreatChi: In a word, yes. :vlol:

moodydog
10-12-10, 21:54
We made: Uniformed votes (as a population)...

We got: Raised tuition fees.

I don't think conservatives are going to remain in next vote (or Lib dems)

Lara's Nemesis
10-12-10, 21:58
And his horse :vlol:

I assume you mean Camilla :D

Does she really look like a horse close up :confused:


http://i52.************/fm6rtz.jpg

Quite a lot of posh people are said to be a bit horsey looking. :p

Don't think they will be using that car again, not the best for a quick getaway really.

lararoxs
10-12-10, 21:58
We made: Uniformed votes (as a population)...

We got: Raised tuition fees.

I don't think conservatives are going to remain in next vote (or Lib dems)

Not too sure about Conservatives, I think they have a while to prove themselves and could still be here, however Lib Dems I highly doubt. Miliband's got it covered - He's got a good job of picking up the pieces.

Lara's Nemesis
10-12-10, 21:59
The Lib Dems are screwed at the moment, could take the party a long time to recover.

Beans-Bot
10-12-10, 22:01
Attacking the Royals is completely unnecessary, I think. It's not like they even have the majority of the say in any of this. The attack was just to send a message, nothing else. Same with the poppy burning. In fact, attacking a royal probably was disadvantageous to the cause since now you know the royal family aren't going to speak on the side of the protesters now; a few of them may have been on our side before the attack.

Lara's Nemesis
10-12-10, 22:05
Attacking the Royals is completely unnecessary, I think. It's not like they even have the majority of the say in any of this. The attack was just to send a message, nothing else. Same with the poppy burning. In fact, attacking a royal probably was disadvantageous to the cause since now you know the royal family aren't going to speak on the side of the protesters now; a few of them may have been on our side before the attack.

I agree, it wasn't the brightest move to drive them through a riot tho.

Beans-Bot
10-12-10, 22:08
I agree, it wasn't the brightest move to drive them through a riot tho.


wait wait wait wait wait

they were driven through a riot? In Hell were they thinking?! :o

Lara's Nemesis
10-12-10, 22:15
wait wait wait wait wait

they were driven through a riot? In Hell were they thinking?! :o

Not sure what you mean.:confused:

I haven't really read much about the attack tbh, it was by rioters tho or was it just disgruntled shoppers? :p

Goose
11-12-10, 06:38
wait wait wait wait wait

they were driven through a riot? In Hell were they thinking?! :o

The riots covered a large space, Prince charles was at an award ceremony handing out awards for exceptional bravery, and sacrifice to this country, called 'the millies'. They arrived fine, but on there route back the protestors had spread to different roads and got violent.

Its actually Treason to attack a prince, especially the next in line to the throne.

Mad Tony
11-12-10, 09:49
Key Facts:


No tuition fees in Scotland, but universities there are calling for 'graduate contributions'



Fees in Wales are to rise in line with those in England - but Welsh students will be subsidised wherever they study in the UK so will pay no more than the current fees of 3,290 a year

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11967809

Forget the North-South divide, this is where the real divide is.

lara c. fan
11-12-10, 09:52
Beans-Bot - I don't think the Royal Family can do anything to help them anyway, except give money out or something...

moodydog
11-12-10, 11:00
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs390.ash2/66826_117961141605217_117960808271917_108245_44605 77_n.jpg

Mad Tony
11-12-10, 11:01
In all fairness to Nick Clegg, they are in a coalition so it's not like they can do everything they want.

xXhayleyroxXx
11-12-10, 11:02
Yeah but to be honest he should have stuck to his guns. I know I would have.

larson n natla
11-12-10, 11:03
What is fair treatment? Treatment the same as your parents, your grandparents? Because University was only for the rich in there cases, its just that we got to bloated on benefits for nothing that we got to this stage where the prices have to go up.

Education up to college is free, thats beyond reasonable by standards across the world, there is no denying it, University is a luxury, not a right.

The reason why the average 'working class' person like myself thinks these arguments are a waste of time is due to the statistics. Its proven that throughout the uk, for the majority of degrees, less then 50% of the students get a job in there studied field. Im not happy at the thought of my tax money helping someone to waste 4 years of there lives doing a course they wont even use.

http://unistats.direct.gov.uk/subjectBrowse.do;jsessionid=6C794381B7F3584776027A C94F64CD33.worker1

I love the idea of studying guitar for 4 years, but id never expect the government to help me out, because right now its not in there best interests.

Come now, you must realise that your point of view is borderline archaic. Though it may be true that some of those who study don't follow their career path, this isn't because they don't want to. It is simply because there are not enough jobs encompassing their specialist field.

My point is that our generation should not have to pay more for the same education. Of course I understand its a privilege but it is an earned privilege, universities do not accept those with no academical background. Many GCSE and A-levels must be achieved in order to qualify for entry. After working hard all of my educational life, and gaining these grades it should not be made even more difficult for me to attend university.

We all pay taxes Goose we don't get a choice. Question is would you rather be paying for all those useless louts that sit around all day collecting benefits or would you rather pay for a better education system ensuring that those who are capable can have the opportunity to study without the worry of heavy debt hanging over them for half of their lives.

Mad Tony
11-12-10, 11:13
^
I think you're exaggerating the debt there a little bit

larson n natla
11-12-10, 11:17
^
I think you're exaggerating the debt there a little bit

It stands for 25 years, university usually finishes for most in their twenties or later so it is a long time.

Mad Tony
11-12-10, 11:23
It stands for 25 years, university usually finishes for most in their twenties or later so it is a long time.It stands for 25 years but chances are you'll have it paid off in 5-10.

ggctuk
11-12-10, 11:28
I find the Labour vote somewhat hypocritical. They would have voted yes had it been their idea. They didn't vote no because it was the right thing to do, they voted no because they're cutting their noses off to spite their faces.

larson n natla
11-12-10, 11:40
It stands for 25 years but chances are you'll have it paid off in 5-10.


Your right, I didn't really think that through. Thanks ;)

robwolf666
11-12-10, 12:03
It's official.

Breakdown:



Source (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/University-Tuition-Fees-MPs-Vote-To-Increase-Tuition-Fees-To-Up-To-9000-Despite-Rebellions/Article/201012215850830?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15850830_University_Tuition_Fees%3A_MP s_Vote_To_Increase_Tuition_Fees_To_Up_To_%3F9%2C00 0_Despite_Rebellions)

I don't condone the violence, but I do support the protests... and there's so much to protest about now... but once again we have a government that ignores the people, how quickly they forget who put them in power - and who can take it away again.

I'll personally never vote LibDem again after their blatant lies and betrayal... looks like my vote will be going to a fringe party from now on.

jaywalker
11-12-10, 12:18
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11967809

Forget the North-South divide, this is where the real divide is.

Yeh there's the joke, wales n scotland either free or no change. Give em financial independence and see how long that lasts. People have had too many things too easy for far too long.

ggctuk
11-12-10, 13:10
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11967809

Forget the North-South divide, this is where the real divide is.

Yep, once again government ****es on the English people. I think it is time to eject David Cameron and elect a new PM, one who has a set of balls to do what is right - either all the same or none at all.

Mad Tony
11-12-10, 13:23
Yep, once again government ****es on the English people. I think it is time to eject David Cameron and elect a new PM, one who has a set of balls to do what is right - either all the same or none at all.You're joking, right? You want to get rid of the PM over one thing? The preferential treatment of Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales has been going on for decades. Likelihood is it will continue to go on for the rest of this parliament and the next.

ggctuk
11-12-10, 13:28
Not one thing solely. He's gone back on practically all of his pre-election promises and it turns out he didn't have to anyway.

What would happen, then, if my sister, who is looking to go to uni to study law, decided to sue the Government for racism over this? Because I see it as that, not just simple 'preferential treatment'.

Mad Tony
11-12-10, 13:50
Not one thing solely. He's gone back on practically all of his pre-election promises and it turns out he didn't have to anyway.He's not gone back on many, but you've got to remember he's in a coalition. Unfortunately compromises have had to be made.

Goose
11-12-10, 15:07
Come now, you must realise that your point of view is borderline archaic. Though it may be true that some of those who study don't follow their career path, this isn't because they don't want to. It is simply because there are not enough jobs encompassing their specialist field.

Did you actually look at the statistics? In a perfect world, only economically benefitial degrees should get any funding, the rest are just fancy.



My point is that our generation should not have to pay more for the same education. Of course I understand its a privilege but it is an earned privilege, universities do not accept those with no academical background. Many GCSE and A-levels must be achieved in order to qualify for entry. After working hard all of my educational life, and gaining these grades it should not be made even more difficult for me to attend university.


Its not difficult at all, just get a job and save up. This isnt some sort of outlandish point of view, its what the majority of people in the world do, so why not you?


We all pay taxes Goose we don't get a choice. Question is would you rather be paying for all those useless louts that sit around all day collecting benefits or would you rather pay for a better education system ensuring that those who are capable can have the opportunity to study without the worry of heavy debt hanging over them for half of their lives.

I didnt start paying taxes till i started work, students out of work are not tax payers. Jobless people who refuse to work, and students are both things that i have no interest in funding, unless it benefits our economy.

If i want a degree, the military will pay part of the study fees, and i pay the rest, the only requirment being that it benefits not only me, but the MOD. Its common sense. Why should this country help you, when you have no interest in helping it become stable again?