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tlr online
27-10-04, 16:15
Irrespective of whether you're American or not, who would you vote for in the upcoming U.S. elections. Be interesting to see the political make-up of our forum.

tazmine
27-10-04, 16:28
Kerry for sure. :D

Lemmie
27-10-04, 17:28
I obviously can't vote but...Kerry. Bush is annoying. :mad:

Wizzkiddo
27-10-04, 17:35
Bush is bad, but I believe it would be even worse if Kerry won. So, my vote goes to bush http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Melonie Tomb Raider
27-10-04, 18:39
this is a cool topic, and of course y'all know I voted for Bush. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/jumper.gif

It's kind of hard to say if this willl really mean anything as to what wil happen considerring most people here are European, and I don't think y'all like Bush much lol. And I know Canada doesn't liek Bush because France doesn't like Bush..... http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/whistle.gif

So it's kind of hard to predict the real results considerring most of the voters here are not American, but we will see what will happen. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

I read some things online and the results for kids pick the president on Nickolodean was like 56% for Kerry; however, they had this teen vote on something ( Dunno what, I just read this on the bellsouth news internet) and Bush swept the compition on that one. I don't remember the percentage, but it was by a lot.

However, I heard on the radio today that it looks like Kerry has New Hampshire, and that's a scary thought considerring they have never picked wrong. But it's only 5 points lol, and we don't know how the results will really show up. I also heard that there are like 10,000 extra democratic voters because people registered more than once and used names like, "Marry Poppins". http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-1.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/violent.gif

I hope they don't get away with that, they tried to pull a stupid stunt like that last election when they voted as " Mickey Mouse" but those voted didn't count, so I'm hoping the Marry Poppins ones won't either. Anwho, GO BUSH!!!! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

Draco
27-10-04, 18:44
Tied, well that is a pleasant surprise.

Catlantean
27-10-04, 19:49
I'm not American and I live so far from the US it doesn't affect me very much who's their president...but I think I'd vote Kerry. I don't know much about him, but he seems a lot less warlike than Bush.

Melonie Tomb Raider
27-10-04, 20:11
Sometimes it takes war to have peace....

Draco
27-10-04, 20:16
Always*

Anubis_AF
27-10-04, 20:22
Kerry for SURE. Don't make me start talking about Bush. ;) http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Thorir
27-10-04, 20:52
People should make LOVE, not war.

http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

Draco
27-10-04, 21:00
War is easier.

bumb1ebee
27-10-04, 21:02
I'm so lost... I don't know. I'm glad i read the "village bush" thread even though it's the reason why I'm so lost. Argg...

Catlantean
27-10-04, 21:06
Originally posted by Melonie Tomb Raider:
Sometimes it takes war to have peace....True. But the whole Iraq mess just keeps on bringing more suffering to everyone involved, with no peace in sight :(

bumb1ebee
27-10-04, 21:08
I just don't think the post-war period has gone on long enough for you to judge whether or not peace will come.

tazmine
27-10-04, 21:19
I don't really think we should be calling what is going on in Iraq right now a post-war period, despite the fact that Bush declared back in (April)? that the conflict was over.

Since then approximately 800 more American soldiers have been killed, I'm sorry to say I don't know how many from from the other nations involved, & scores of Iraquis.

I don't see peace anywhere in the near, or even the far, future. :(

Draco
27-10-04, 21:21
Originally posted by Catlantean:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Melonie Tomb Raider:
Sometimes it takes war to have peace....True. But the whole Iraq mess just keeps on bringing more suffering to everyone involved, with no peace in sight :( </font>[/QUOTE]Well the Iraqis want peace, but terrorists don't.

Draco
27-10-04, 21:27
Originally posted by tazmine:
I don't really think we should be calling what is going on in Iraq right now a post-war period, despite the fact that Bush declared back in (April)? that the conflict was over.Saddam was overthrown, thus the actual war was over.

Since then approximately 800 more American soldiers have been killed, I'm sorry to say I don't know how many from from the other nations involved, & scores of Iraquis.http://www.infoshout.com/iraq%20death%20toll.htm

I don't see peace anywhere in the near, or even the far, future. :( Do you know what peace in Iraq qould mean?

Catlantean
27-10-04, 21:30
Originally posted by bumb1ebee:
I just don't think the post-war period has gone on long enough for you to judge whether or not peace will come.I never said peace will NOT come. But the fact is that by now too many people have lost their lives in Iraq. This week a driver from my country, just a truck driver doing his job, was killed in Iraq and the funny thing is my country never even supported Bush's war! It's turning into a chaos where everyone's at everyone's throat, and such horrible things keep on happening that it makes me wonder if catching Saddam was ever worth all the sacrifice (he was evil, but I don't think he was ever a serious threat to world peace). I mean, whatever was going on when he was in charge, surely people weren't being kidnapped and then beheaded by terrorists every day!

tazmine
27-10-04, 21:37
Originally posted by Draco:
( [/qb]Do you know what peace in Iraq qould mean?[/QB][/QUOTE]

Please tell me.

(I never seem to get the litle quotation marks just right.) http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[ 27. October 2004, 22:38: Message edited by: tazmine ]

Draco
27-10-04, 21:45
Peace in Iraq isn't a challenge really, the Coalition could turn tail and run, but that would say the fundamentalists are right.

Peace and Stability in Iraq are a bit different, but stable peace would be an improvement over what was there when we started.

Peace, Stability, and Liberty in Iraq is the goal, and achieving that goal will send the message that religion isn't vital to...well anything. It will loosen the hold the radical fundamentalists have on their victims, and promote individuals thinking independently.

It can happen, we just have to prove it.

egyptiangal
27-10-04, 21:49
I'm voting for Bush if I ever get the absentee ballot in the mail!!! JEEZ! :rolleyes:

tazmine
27-10-04, 22:24
Originally posted by Draco:
Peace in Iraq isn't a challenge really, the Coalition could turn tail and run, but that would say the fundamentalists are right.

Peace and Stability in Iraq are a bit different, but stable peace would be an improvement over what was there when we started.

Peace, Stability, and Liberty in Iraq is the goal, and achieving that goal will send the message that religion isn't vital to...well anything. It will loosen the hold the radical fundamentalists have on their victims, and promote individuals thinking independently.

It can happen, we just have to prove it.When I said "peace", I meant something where both sides were happy: I don't see that at all in the future.

Draco
27-10-04, 22:28
Originally posted by tazmine:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Draco:
Peace in Iraq isn't a challenge really, the Coalition could turn tail and run, but that would say the fundamentalists are right.

Peace and Stability in Iraq are a bit different, but stable peace would be an improvement over what was there when we started.

Peace, Stability, and Liberty in Iraq is the goal, and achieving that goal will send the message that religion isn't vital to...well anything. It will loosen the hold the radical fundamentalists have on their victims, and promote individuals thinking independently.

It can happen, we just have to prove it.When I said "peace", I meant something where both sides were happy: I don't see that at all in the future.</font>[/QUOTE]Both sides are never happy as long as they both exist in their respective forms.

tazmine
27-10-04, 22:40
You mean so long as the US sees themselves as the conquering heroes, & the Iraquis see themselves as invaded?

Draco
27-10-04, 22:57
I don't think either of those is true.

tazmine
27-10-04, 23:49
"Both sides are never happy as long as they both exist in their respective forms. " Draco

So what then, are, their respective forms?

Draco
28-10-04, 01:57
Western 'Oppression' and Eastern 'Isolationism'

What the West doesn't understand about the East, is that there is no middle ground.

What the East doesn't understand about the West, is that we aren't so different.

Neteru
28-10-04, 04:51
I voted Kerry.

nikos
28-10-04, 07:29
for everyone out of usa doesn't matter who will be the next president of usa, because they always follow the same foreign politics,so i don't care who will bomb iraq tommorow,or what else the world leaders want to do against human race just to increase their power!the name is not important!the politics won't change whatever will take the lead! :mad:
but as the anciend greecks wise men said:
between two bad men[or situations],the best is not the worst!so i will give my vote to kerry just because hope is dying last! ;)
BTW i am not a u.s citizen so i don't get much of the psychology of a us person but do they realise that another 4years with bush, things will be worst than a knightmare?
he will say you vote for me so you like my way, so i will do more in the same direction now!that's means more war and blood for the rest of world?
so people of usa have the absolute right to vote for what they like,but after this election the danger to feel really lonely in the entire planet is really big!

[ 28. October 2004, 08:33: Message edited by: nikos ]

AJVoight
28-10-04, 09:08
I'm not an American, but I would vote for George W Bush............And I think who wins this election will effect the whole world, and not just America........ http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

tazmine
28-10-04, 12:21
Originally posted by Melonie Tomb Raider:
this is a cool topic, and of course y'all know I voted for Bush. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/jumper.gif

And I know Canada doesn't liek Bush because France doesn't like Bush..... http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/whistle.gif

tmb:What on earth would France not liking Bush have to do with Canada??? :confused:

Despite the fact that you obviously think we are all French speaking, I can assure you we are not. There are 10 provinces in Canada: 1 is officially unilingual French (Quebec); 1 is officially bilingual French & English (New Brunswick); 8 are officially unilingual English.

Even if everyone in Canada did speak French, why would you think France would have any influence on our foreign policy?

Does the fact that a lot of people in the US speak Spanish make them side with Mexico or Spain regarding foreign policy?

bumb1ebee
29-10-04, 04:00
haha good point Taz.

TR3LaraCroft
29-10-04, 19:36
I am definitely a Bush supporter!!! Kerry annoys the heck out of me. (Well actually I find him rather amusing.)! The man will say anything to get elected. So glad I can vote this year!

P.S. Hey everyone http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

Melonie Tomb Raider
29-10-04, 21:33
Originally posted by TR3LaraCroft:
I am definitely a Bush supporter!!! Kerry annoys the heck out of me. (Well actually I find him rather amusing.)! The man will say anything to get elected. So glad I can vote this year!

P.S. Hey everyone http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif Lucky you, I can't vote because I'm less than three weeks to young. hehe. I agree with you though. Nice to see you back on the forums, I haven't talked with you in a really long time. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

Oh, and Taz. Isn't French the native language for Canada basically? You say that most people in American speak Spanish, but that's as their second language. I'd say about 95% ( if not more) of Americans speak English fluently and most of them as their first language unless they were ofreigners who moved here.

I used to live in upstate NY for nine years and I went to Canada frequintly, so I'm not just saying things that I don't know of. Canada likes France a lot and they agree on almost everything, I didn't say there was anything wrong with that fact did I? No need for you to take that personally.

TR3LaraCroft
29-10-04, 21:51
Thanks Mel. ....it has been a bit. You are one of my Fav members http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif . I missed talking with you and everyone else. It`s nice to post again.

[ 29. October 2004, 22:53: Message edited by: TR3LaraCroft ]

tazmine
29-10-04, 21:58
Mel, French is not the "basic Native" language of Canada. As I posted in my reply, 8 of the 10 provinces are unilingual English. (But then again, I've only lived here all my life, & you've visited Canada...)

I also did not say that most Americans speak Spanish: I was trying to draw an analogy between Spanish speaking Americans & Mexico or Spain to your equating everything in Canada to France: obviously that went over your head.

In point of Fact, Canada has no speciial ties to France, & we certainly do "not agree with them about almost everything". We are a sovereign nation, we make our own decisions.

As for annoying me: yes, you do. You make outrageous statements about everything from gays to right to choose to your country's policies, & then try to sugercoat it all with a little "lol"... Doesn't work for me.

[ 29. October 2004, 23:02: Message edited by: tazmine ]

Isabella
29-10-04, 22:58
http://www.victorystore.com/gifts/democrat/kerry-tshirt.gif

Originally posted by Melonie Tomb Raider:
It's kind of hard to say if this willl really mean anything as to what wil happen considerring most people here are EuropeanAs far as the actual outcome you're right, But I do care about the kind of light we are shone in when it comes to the rest of the world. It would be nice to have some respect again.

Thorn
29-10-04, 23:31
I don't trust either of them for my president. So nope.

tazmine
30-10-04, 00:19
Isabella: join up with Hillary for 2008: I'll move to the States to vote for you. Go, girl. :D

Draco
30-10-04, 00:29
Originally posted by Isabella:
http://www.victorystore.com/gifts/democrat/kerry-tshirt.gif

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Melonie Tomb Raider:
It's kind of hard to say if this willl really mean anything as to what wil happen considerring most people here are EuropeanAs far as the actual outcome you're right, But I do care about the kind of light we are shone in when it comes to the rest of the world. It would be nice to have some respect again.</font>[/QUOTE]It's a mistake to think Kerry will get any respect just because he makes a bunch of promises.

tazmine
30-10-04, 00:35
I think the man is more than just promises. I really feel he has the courage of his convictions.

Draco
30-10-04, 02:34
Then he is a lot less intelligent than he portrays himself to be.

Melonie Tomb Raider
30-10-04, 04:42
Originally posted by tazmine:
Mel, French is not the "basic Native" language of Canada. As I posted in my reply, 8 of the 10 provinces are unilingual English. (But then again, I've only lived here all my life, & you've visited Canada...)

I also did not say that most Americans speak Spanish: I was trying to draw an analogy between Spanish speaking Americans & Mexico or Spain to your equating everything in Canada to France: obviously that went over your head.

In point of Fact, Canada has no speciial ties to France, & we certainly do "not agree with them about almost everything". We are a sovereign nation, we make our own decisions.

As for annoying me: yes, you do. You make outrageous statements about everything from gays to right to choose to your country's policies, & then try to sugercoat it all with a little "lol"... Doesn't work for me.Taz, I think perhaps any personal problems you have with me would be better discussed in PM because I don't want to ruin a perfectly good topic on an argument and make everyone else have to read a bunch of junk becausey ou get offended easily. That's all I have to say.

Oh, except for the " Womens right to choose" as you wrote. Yeah, you have a point there, women do have the right to choose. They choose whether or not they want to murder an innocent life, that is in fact a choice as you state. Do you even realize the process of partial birth abortion? The baby is fully out of the mother all except for the top of his/her head, and then they shove some sort of device through the back of tha baby's head and suck its brains out. Who could say that isn't murder?

Any way, back to nice things. I don't want to get this topic closed for no good reason. Hi TR3 http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif You are one of my fav members as well, and I am so glad to see you back!! I changed me AIM screen name, so I'll have to find yours again so I can add you to it. I haven't been IMing for a while since i've been so busy with college. But I'll make some more time to get back on. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

Draco
30-10-04, 05:05
I think before things go much further, people should realize that nobody knows everything about everything.

Partial Birth Abortions are indeed messy and morally problematic, but not all Abortions are done that way.

A major part of Canada is indeed seperatist, but don't seem to be willing to turn it into a Civil War.

Differences are not what keeps us [humanity] apart, it's our similarities.

TR3LaraCroft
30-10-04, 06:37
Originally posted by Melonie Tomb Raider:
[QUOTE]

Oh, except for the " Womens right to choose" as you wrote. Yeah, you have a point there, women do have the right to choose. They choose whether or not they want to murder an innocent life, that is in fact a choice as you state. Do you even realize the process of partial birth abortion? The baby is fully out of the mother all except for the top of his/her head, and then they shove some sort of device through the back of tha baby's head and suck its brains out. Who could say that isn't murder?

Very well said! Let me just say something about abortion.......The percentage of abortions that are rape, incest, and life of the mother is lower than 1%!!!
Partial birth abortion (or any abortion for that matter) is sick. Of course John Kerry supports it ...yeah there is a surprise.


t-shirt http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v346/toonces783/KerryGotU5Fcovered2Ejpg.jpg

P.S. Mel ...yeah I changed my AIM as well I have to update my profile :D http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[ 30. October 2004, 07:56: Message edited by: TR3LaraCroft ]

Thorn
30-10-04, 07:44
I don't agree with abortion but speaking graphically about the new borns "brains being sucked out" is just overdone. The doctor is the one who actually takes action in doing this as well.

Apofiss
30-10-04, 08:20
Bush. (he seems more peaceful http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/privateeye.gif )

Melonie Tomb Raider
30-10-04, 17:42
Originally posted by TR3LaraCroft:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Melonie Tomb Raider:


Oh, except for the " Womens right to choose" as you wrote. Yeah, you have a point there, women do have the right to choose. They choose whether or not they want to murder an innocent life, that is in fact a choice as you state. Do you even realize the process of partial birth abortion? The baby is fully out of the mother all except for the top of his/her head, and then they shove some sort of device through the back of tha baby's head and suck its brains out. Who could say that isn't murder?

Very well said! Let me just say something about abortion.......The percentage of abortions that are rape, incest, and life of the mother is lower than 1%!!!
Partial birth abortion (or any abortion for that matter) is sick. Of course John Kerry supports it ...yeah there is a surprise.


P.S. Mel ...yeah I changed my AIM as well I have to update my profile :D http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif </font>I love that picture!!! haha, that is so funny! But you are totally right, abortion done in any way is just sick. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/yuck.gif And Kerry flip flops on that issue too, I watched one of the debates and when he talked about abortion he said that he didn't agree with it but then he said he did agree with it and bla bla.

The sad fact is that he plans to make our tax dollars be used to pay for those grotesque abortions.There is no way I want any of my money being used to contribute to that. Any way, I'll have to look at your profile so I can add you to my buddy list, I've missed talking to you. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

One more statement, some one said something like ," Well teh doctors do the abortions not the mother." It's still the mother's fault for having it done. That's just like a woman hiring a hitman to kill her husband but it isn't her fault since the hitman did it. That really doesn't make sense....

Isabella
30-10-04, 22:22
Originally posted by tazmine:
Isabella: join up with Hillary for 2008: I'll move to the States to vote for you. Go, girl. :D Thanks Taz, although if Kerry looses I'm afriad the chances of an open-minded individual being elected will go down the drain.

@Draco. Kerry will have respect when it comes to the rest of the world. Considering what Bush has done on this issue it can't get any worse.

Not wanting to heat this up any more please just let me add that no man in Congress has the right to decide what a woman can or can't do to her own body period.

Draco
30-10-04, 22:22
The real kicker is that it is now you can be charged for killing an unborn child, unless you are an abortion doctor...

Draco
30-10-04, 22:28
Originally posted by Isabella:
...if Kerry looses I'm afriad the chances of an open-minded individual being elected will go down the drain.Between a Republican who is more left thinking than most and a Democrat who can't admit there is a middle ground, I would say Bush is more open minded.

@Draco. Kerry will have respect when it comes to the rest of the world. Considering what Bush has done on this issue it can't get any worse.It can get a lot worse.

Not wanting to heat this up any more please just let me add that no man in Congress has the right to decide what a woman can or can't do to her own body period.You are absolutely right there, yet you say 'man', not 'members'. And while nobody has the right to decide what a women can or can't do to her own body, they can decide what she can do to someone growing inside it.

tazmine
30-10-04, 22:35
Oh, Draco, please. I'd like to think we've progressed far enough that a woman can make her own decisions, & act on them safely. Back room abortions are going to become the norm again if Bush has his wish.

Isabella
30-10-04, 22:41
Partial-birth abortions aside, A woman's body is her own along with what is inside it. If I have a daughter someday and she is rapped at a young age or if someone is having a high risk pregnancy then it's her right, her decision to do whatever has to be done. What's also baffling is that so many pro-lifers are willing to bomb abortion clinics which kill not only the Dr's and mothers, but the babies they're supposedly trying to save.

And you're right about our global hatered possibly becoming worse which is the direction we will be headed if Bush is in term for another 4 years. Through MoveOn I've spoken to republicans ( I've gone through this in a previous thread ) and some actually said they couldn't care less about what the world thinks of us. Personally I think Bush feels this way as well only he can't come out and say it.

Draco
30-10-04, 22:43
Originally posted by tazmine:
Oh, Draco, please. I'd like to think we've progressed far enough that a woman can make her own decisions, & act on them safely. Back room abortions are going to become the norm again if Bush has his wish.I have nothing against abortions personally, but double standards are...pathetic.

And Bush doesn't want to stop abortions.

Draco
30-10-04, 23:19
Originally posted by Isabella:
Partial-birth abortions aside, A woman's body is her own along with what is inside it. If I have a daughter someday and she is rapped at a young age or if someone is having a high risk pregnancy then it's her right, her decision to do whatever has to be done.And what is your argument for abortions because the mother just doesn't want a kid?

What's also baffling is that so many pro-lifers are willing to bomb abortion clinics which kill not only the Dr's and mothers, but the babies they're supposedly trying to save.Every group has extremists, PETA groups hurt people and vandalize property to 'save' animals.

And you're right about our global hatered possibly becoming worse which is the direction we will be headed if Bush is in term for another 4 years.Bush is better domestically and that is more important that kissing the UN's shoes.

Through MoveOn I've spoken to republicans ( I've gone through this in a previous thread ) and some actually said they couldn't care less about what the world thinks of us. Personally I think Bush feels this way as well only he can't come out and say it.Bush is concerned about international opinion, the difference is he doesn't let it make his decisions for him.

Flipper1987
31-10-04, 04:23
Originally posted by Isabella:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tazmine:
Isabella: join up with Hillary for 2008: I'll move to the States to vote for you. Go, girl. :D Thanks Taz, although if Kerry looses I'm afriad the chances of an open-minded individual being elected will go down the drain. </font>[/QUOTE]Not to pick on Isabella but, in my experience, whenever someone describes a person as "open-minded," what they are usually saying is that person "thinks like us."

"Open-minded" is such a subjective term that many (not all) use it to validate their own beliefs & to indirectly attack those that they don't agree with.

FLIPPER - who is very open & closed-minded. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[ 31. October 2004, 05:13: Message edited by: Flipper1987 ]

Flipper1987
31-10-04, 04:48
Originally posted by Isabella:
Through MoveOn I've spoken to republicans ( I've gone through this in a previous thread ) and some actually said they couldn't care less about what the world thinks of us. Personally I think Bush feels this way as well only he can't come out and say it.So does anyone here really think that France cares about what the U.S. thinks of them? Does Germany care? How about Mozambique? Sudan? Iran? Laos? Slovenia? Moldova? Bangladesh? Somehow I believe the answer is much closer to "NO" than "yes."

Yet the U.S. needs to be completely consumed with how other countries view us while those same countries could care less what the U.S. thinks of them? Hmmm. :rolleyes:

The reality is that the U.S. & President Bush ARE concerned about how others view us; however, the U.S. is not going to allow the sniffing disapproval of certain countries to dictate how we (the U.S.) conduct our foreign policy.

Actually, the U.S. continues to have a good working relationship with many countries, especially democratic states. Differences of opinion between allies are the norm & they can flare up from time to time; however, that doesn't mean the U.S. has abandoned or poisoned it's alliances. Any suggestion of that is just a bunch of politically-motivated nonsense put forward by Henny Penny supporters of Sen. Kerry & should not be taken seriously.

FLIPPER - who is quite full of baloney, at times. ;)

P.S. Please remember Isabella that I'm not picking on you, although the fact that you work for MoveOn.org gives me plenty of reasons to do so. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[ 31. October 2004, 04:52: Message edited by: Flipper1987 ]

Melonie Tomb Raider
31-10-04, 05:13
I agree with what Draco said when he said somehting like, " Yes a woman does have the right to choose what is done to her own body, but not what is done to the body inside of her." I agree with that statement 100%, that baby's body is NOT the woman's body, it's the baby's. However, you said Bush does not want to stop abortions when really he does. He has stated many times he is doing his best to stop it.

Melonie Tomb Raider
31-10-04, 05:19
Flipper, I think you're write somewhat. Bush wants other countries to like us, but if it means we have to kiss some butt then who cares! I agree with that too. If France doesn't like us then I could care less. Sure, it would be nice for the world to like us, but we aren't going to kiss butt to make them like us. We are going to do our thing, and if other countries don't like it then it's their problem, because it is impossible to make every country like us and we have better things to do ( like focus on a war) than to make ourselves popular with the other countries.

It's just like real life. You want people to liek you right? But if some one doesn't like you do you really care? Are you going to kiss that person's butt just so he/she will like you? I know I wouldn't. Same thing with our country.

andromeda_eats
31-10-04, 05:31
Melonie Tomb Raider: Your imagery used in describing some of your views is disgusting and repulsive and completely unnecessary in putting forward your well entitled opinion. I find it highly offensive.

Isabella
31-10-04, 16:22
As I said before Flipper, You and Draco are able to get your views across in diplomatic way and I respect the maturity in which you do so, As some other people seem to lack in that area.

@ Your statement on open-mindedness. You make a good point about the relativity of it's defination. Generally speaking though, and in the most broad sense of the word, Democrates are more open ( i.e liberal ) than Republicans on a lot of issues.

@ Your quote "So does anyone here really think that France cares about what the U.S. thinks of them? Does Germany care? How about Mozambique? Sudan? Iran? Laos? Slovenia? Moldova? Bangladesh? Somehow I believe the answer is much closer to "NO" than "yes." Yet the U.S. needs to be completely consumed with how other countries view us while those same countries could care less what the U.S. thinks of them? Hmmm."

Even if this is the case, Those countries are not the super-power that the U.S is. Because of our posistion how the world views us is important. Just as a school official is much more effective when it has the student body behind it instead of instilling fear or hatred in it.

@"Actually, the U.S. continues to have a good working relationship with many countries, especially democratic states. Differences of opinion between allies are the norm & they can flare up from time to time; however, that doesn't mean the U.S. has abandoned or poisoned it's alliances. Any suggestion of that is just a bunch of politically-motivated nonsense put forward by Henny Penny supporters of Sen. Kerry & should not be taken seriously."

Bush has managed to aleniate the world more so than anyone else. The reason behind this was because he was in such a rush to invade Iraq. The method behind it was sketchy and questionable to a lot of countries and the entire thing should have been handled in a more carefully thought through manner. We did seem like the spoiled child stomping over someone's sandcastle because they didn't want to play what was an unfair game.

So I'm the Bill Maher to your Bill O'Riely. ;) (sans the recent scandal)

[ 31. October 2004, 16:24: Message edited by: Isabella ]

larasfrend
31-10-04, 17:24
I chose Kerry- anything BUT Bush. He's unconvincing, dangerous and a huge threat to world peace. He's just a little man who wants his oil, so he fakes the whole Saddam's got weapons of mass distruction. He also talks a whole load of cr@p half the time. It's a pity, that people outside of America see how dangerous Bush is, yet we have no powers in election. Surely one can see all this mess in Iraq and Afghanistan that he created. He said he was going to get Bin Laden in Afghanistan then he focused on Iraq and oops, the worlds most dangerous terrorrist just completely went missing. Did he leave Afghanistan? God knows.
Why is Bush interested in Iraq? Al Qaeda? Nope. He always was planning on 'doing Iraq' simply to continue his father's work.

Now I don't know Kerry that well, but anyone and I mean even a chimpansee could do a better job in creating world peace. Without war. How can anyone say so cooly: To make peace you need war? War is the opposite of peace and war scars and kills millions of people.

I feel very strongly about this and I have nothing against Bush voters, I'm just trying to help show a broader view than his election campain's promises- I don't mean to offend anyone- this is just my opinion.

Quiver.
31-10-04, 18:32
I should vote for kerry, but I can't cause I'm not living in america. :D

But I saw fahrenheit 911 and Bush have done some strange things.... (but in that movie you see everthing from one side....)

larasfrend
31-10-04, 19:29
Welcome to the forums, Quiver! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Draco
31-10-04, 20:06
Originally posted by Quiver.:
I should vote for kerry, but I can't cause I'm not living in america. :D

But I saw fahrenheit 911 and Bush have done some strange things.... (but in that movie you see everthing from one side....)Did you see the other propoganda movie, Stolen Honor?

Lemmie
31-10-04, 21:43
I think the general feeling in Glasgow is anti-American anyway. One of my friends is very against America being a seperate country, he thinks that Britain should not have given up to the revolutionaries. Please! He's probably the only person in Scotland who thinks that. But funnily enough he doesn't think the same way about Canada, Australia and India! But a lot of people have been deeply affected by the Iraq war, and there's a lot of worry about Scottish troops going to relieve Americans so they can sort out Fallujah (I think that's how it's spelt). Personally I couldn't care either way about the election, especially as I can't vote. But I would prefer Kerry to win, because I think he's got more integrity than Bush, and also he knows what war is like!
But I am concerned that America might want to cut itself off from the rest of the world, which however much you want to, you just can't do. Plus, I think it's wrong that government's pretend to represent their countries people. They continually say 'I know how you feel' when they have absolutely no concept. If they said 'I think how you feel,' that might be more accurate.

Flipper1987
01-11-04, 04:34
Originally posted by larasfrend:
I chose Kerry- anything BUT Bush. He's unconvincing, dangerous and a huge threat to world peace. He's just a little man who wants his oil, so he fakes the whole Saddam's got weapons of mass distruction. He also talks a whole load of cr@p half the time. It's a pity, that people outside of America see how dangerous Bush is, yet we have no powers in election. Surely one can see all this mess in Iraq and Afghanistan that he created. He said he was going to get Bin Laden in Afghanistan then he focused on Iraq and oops, the worlds most dangerous terrorrist just completely went missing. Did he leave Afghanistan? God knows.
Why is Bush interested in Iraq? Al Qaeda? Nope. He always was planning on 'doing Iraq' simply to continue his father's work.

Now I don't know Kerry that well, but anyone and I mean even a chimpansee could do a better job in creating world peace. Without war. How can anyone say so cooly: To make peace you need war? War is the opposite of peace and war scars and kills millions of people. Wow! What an incredible statement. :rolleyes: Normally I would ignore such sentiments but tonight I just can't help myself. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/clown.gif it's Halloween here after all.

"He's (President Bush) unconvincing, dangerous and a huge threat to world peace."

50 million people have been liberated, two totalitarian countries are being transformed into developing democracies, & the terrorists are really angry about it. I can understand your alarm.

"He's just a little man who wants his oil, so he fakes the whole Saddam's got weapons of mass distruction."

Yeah, that's right. You have obviously been paying attention over the last two years. :rolleyes:

"It's a pity, that people outside of America see how dangerous Bush is, yet we have no powers in election."

Based on your previous & future remarks, I thank God that you do not have a vote.

"Surely one can see all this mess in Iraq and Afghanistan that he created."

So apparently Iraq, under Saddam, & Afghanistan, under the Taliban, weren't messes? Right now they (the US-led coalition) are trying to set up democracies & spread individual freedoms. Yes, very messy. :confused:

"He said he was going to get Bin Laden in Afghanistan then he focused on Iraq and oops, the worlds most dangerous terrorrist just completely went missing. Did he leave Afghanistan? God knows."

Well you know it is possible to walk & chew gum at the same time. Perhaps you can assist us in finding Bin Laden. Most experts think that UBL is in western Pakistan (Musharaff has asked the U.S. not to send troops into that area) or in Iran, whose "government" has recently decided to enrich their uranium amidst shouts of "death to America," which thay have been chanting in Iran since 1979.

"Why is Bush interested in Iraq? Al Qaeda? Nope. He always was planning on 'doing Iraq' simply to continue his father's work."

Therefore, by your assertion, Bush had transparent plans to invade Iraq before 9/11. The only problem is that he hadn't made any plans to do such a thing. 9/11 made it impossible for the U.S. to allow Saddam (& his terrorist-friendly regime) to remain in power.

"Now I don't know Kerry that well, but anyone and I mean even a chimpansee could do a better job in creating world peace."

:rolleyes: Are you volunteering?

"How can anyone say so cooly: To make peace you need war? War is the opposite of peace and war scars and kills millions of people."

Actually, the quote you are referring to is: "to have peace one must PREPARE for war." It's one of those universal truths, especially in these times, that all parties agree with.

Good luck in school this year.

FLIPPER

[ 01. November 2004, 05:28: Message edited by: Flipper1987 ]

Yours_in_darkness
01-11-04, 04:48
I asked my father who he was going to vote for and he said "Well, with the way Bush has screwed up the country so badly, the Democratic party could pick Daffy Duck and still win. Unfortunately, they picked the one person in the U.S. that's worse than Daffy Duck."

However, I am STRONGLY pro Kerry.

Flipper1987
01-11-04, 04:55
Originally posted by Yours_in_darkness:
I asked my father who he was going to vote for and he said "Well, with the way Bush has screwed up the country so badly, the Democratic party could pick Daffy Duck and still win. Unfortunately, they picked the one person in the U.S. that's worse than Daffy Duck."

However, I am STRONGLY pro Kerry.So does that mean you're also pro-Daffy Duck? http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

FLIPPER - more of a Bugs Bunny type of guy.

Melonie Tomb Raider
01-11-04, 05:24
Originally posted by andromeda_eats:
Melonie Tomb Raider: Your imagery used in describing some of your views is disgusting and repulsive and completely unnecessary in putting forward your well entitled opinion. I find it highly offensive.Well, perhaps I was a little too blunt with the descriptions; however, some people say they are all for abortion but don't realize the real process. Perhaps I should have posted a link of the description, sorry that I have offended you. I don't know where you stand on the topic, but if my description offended you then I think the actual act of abortion would ( or should) offend you a lot more. But I do apologize for being so blunt.

Flipper1987
01-11-04, 05:34
Please disregard.

FLIPPER

[ 01. November 2004, 05:51: Message edited by: Flipper1987 ]

Flipper1987
01-11-04, 05:42
For those who are interested, here is a website that describes the "process" & shows what a variety of aborted fetuses look like.

WARNING: there are some graphic pictures here!!!! Please don't click on this link if you are easily upset by graphic pictures!!

[*mod action. link removed]

FLIPPER

[ 02. November 2004, 01:37: Message edited by: laracroft8290 ]

Raider X
01-11-04, 08:50
On September 11th everything changed!! 3000 people where killed!! These people where killed with 4 airplanes by 12 men that used box cutters to hijack them!! George Bush took a stand!! Thank God for George Bush!!

How many times where we attacked in the 90's under a Democrat? We where attacked 3 times. The first world trade center bombing in 93, the American embacy in Africa in 98, and the USS. Cole in 2000! What was done about it then? Nothing!! That was Bill Clinton,how do you all think John Kerry would react? He is an anti war candidate that was for the war but voted against the funding for the troops! But now he says wrong war wrong place wrong time. He was against the 1st first Gulf war
(even though it passed his so called global test).Kinda makes you wonder? Social issues really don't matter if a
nuke goes off in the middle of one of our citys! Or if the
terrorist hijack one of our schools like they did in Russia.
They found floor plans in Iraq for about 10 of our U.S. schools.How many of you new about that one?

Now John Kerry is complaining about the high explosives that are in Iraq. One pound of this stuff can knock a building down! Or an airplane. Sounds like weapons of mass destruction to me!

John Kerry's Flip Flops

Flip Flopped On Trade With China

In 1991, Kerry Supported Most-Favored Trade Status For China. “Sen. John Kerry said yesterday that he is breaking party ranks to support most-favored-nation trade status for China … ‘I think the president has some strong arguments about some of the assets of most-favored-nation status for China,’ Kerry said.” (John Aloysius Farrell, “Kerry Breaks Party Ranks To Back China Trade Status,” The Boston Globe, 6/15/91)

In 2000, Kerry Voted In Favor Of Permanent Normal Trade Relations With China. (H.R. 4444, CQ Vote #251: Passed 83-15: R 46-8; D 37-7, 9/19/00, Kerry Voted Yea)

Now Kerry Criticizes The Bush Administration For Trading With China. “Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry said on Monday Americans workers were paying the price for President Bush's weak stance on trade with China and other countries. … On the bus tour, Kerry singled out the Bush administration's handling of trade with China and said that country was manipulating its currency.” (Caren Bohan, "Kerry Pledges Aggressive Trade Stance," Reuters, 4/26/04)

Flip-Flopped On Iraq War

Kerry Voted For Authorization To Use Force In Iraq. (H.J. Res. 114, CQ Vote #237: Passed 77-23: R 48-1; D 29-21; I 0-1, 10/11/02, Kerry Voted Yea.)

In First Dem Debate, Kerry Strongly Supported President’s Action In Iraq. KERRY: “George, I said at the time I would have preferred if we had given diplomacy a greater opportunity, but I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the President made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him.” (ABC News, Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Columbia, SC, 5/4/03)

Kerry Later Claimed He Voted “To Threaten” Use Of Force In Iraq. “I voted to threaten the use of force to make Saddam Hussein comply with the resolutions of the United Nations.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At Announcement Of Presidential Candidacy, Mount Pleasant, SC, 9/2/03)

Now, Kerry Says He Is Anti-War Candidate. CHRIS MATTHEWS: “Do you think you belong to that category of candidates who more or less are unhappy with this war, the way it’s been fought, along with General Clark, along with Howard Dean and not necessarily in companionship politically on the issue of the war with people like Lieberman, Edwards and Gephardt? Are you one of the anti-war candidates?” KERRY: “I am -- Yes, in the sense that I don’t believe the president took us to war as he should have, yes, absolutely.” (MSNBC’s “Hardball,” 1/6/04)

Flip-Flopped On Eliminating Marriage Penalty For Middle Class

Kerry Said He Will Fight To Keep Tax Relief For Married Couples. “Howard Dean and Gephardt are going to put the marriage penalty back in place. So if you get married in America, we’re going to charge you more taxes. I do not want to do that.” (Fox News’ “Special Report,” 10/23/03)

Said Democrats Fought To End Marriage Penalty Tax. “We fought hard to get rid of the marriage penalty.” (MSNBC’s “News Live,” 7/31/03)

But, In 1998, Kerry Voted Against Eliminating Marriage Penalty Relief For Married Taxpayers With Combined Incomes Less Than $50,000 Per Year, Saving Taxpayers $46 Billion Over 10 Years. (S. 1415, CQ Vote #154: Rejected 48-50: R 5-49; D 43-1, 6/10/98, Kerry Voted Yea)

Flip-Flopped On Patriot Act

Kerry Voted For Patriot Act. The Patriot Act was passed nearly unanimously by the Senate 98-1, and 357-66 in the House. (H.R. 3162, CQ Vote #313: Passed 98-1: R 49-0; D 48-1; I 1-0, 10/25/01, Kerry Voted Yea)

Kerry Used To Defend His Vote. “Most of [The Patriot Act] has to do with improving the transfer of information between CIA and FBI, and it has to do with things that really were quite necessary in the wake of what happened on September 11th.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At Town Hall Meeting, Manchester, NH, 8/6/03)

Now, Kerry Attacks Patriot Act. “We are a nation of laws and liberties, not of a knock in the night. So it is time to end the era of John Ashcroft. That starts with replacing the Patriot Act with a new law that protects our people and our liberties at the same time. I’ve been a District Attorney and I know that what law enforcement needs are real tools not restrictions on American’s basic rights.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At Iowa State University, 12/1/03)

Kerry Took BOTH Sides On First Gulf War

Kerry Took BOTH Sides In First Gulf War In Separate Letters To Same Constituent. “Rather than take a side--albeit the one he thought was most expedient--Kerry actually stood on both sides of the first Gulf war, much like he did this time around. Consider this ‘Notebook’ item from TNR’s March 25, 1991 issue, which ran under the headline ‘Same Senator, Same Constituent’: ‘Thank you for contacting me to express your opposition ... to the early use of military force by the US against Iraq. I share your concerns. On January 11, I voted in favor of a resolution that would have insisted that economic sanctions be given more time to work and against a resolution giving the president the immediate authority to go to war.’ --letter from Senator John Kerry to Wallace Carter of Newton Centre, Massachusetts, dated January 22 [1991] ‘Thank you very much for contacting me to express your support for the actions of President Bush in response to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. From the outset of the invasion, I have strongly and unequivocally supported President Bush’s response to the crisis and the policy goals he has established with our military deployment in the Persian Gulf.’ --Senator Kerry to Wallace Carter, January 31 [1991]” (Noam Scheiber, “Noam Scheiber’s Daily Journal of Politics, The New Republic Online, 1/28/04)

Flip-Flopped On Gay Marriage Amendment

In 2002, Kerry Signed Letter “Urging” MA Legislature To Reject Constitutional Amendment Banning Gay Marriage. “We rarely comment on issues that are wholly within the jurisdiction of the General Court, but there are occasions when matters pending before you are of such significance to all residents of the Commonwealth that we think it appropriate for us to express our opinion. One such matter is the proposed Constitutional amendment that would prohibit or seriously inhibit any legal recognition whatsoever of same-sex relationships. We believe it would be a grave error for Massachusetts to enshrine in our Constitution a provision which would have such a negative effect on so many of our fellow residents. … We are therefore united in urging you to reject this Constitutional amendment and avoid stigmatizing so many of our fellow citizens who do not deserve to be treated in such a manner.” (Sen. John Kerry, et al, Letter To Members Of The Massachusetts Legislature, 7/12/02)

Now, In 2004, Kerry Won’t Rule Out Supporting Similar Amendment. “Asked if he would support a state constitutional amendment barring gay and lesbian marriages, Kerry didn’t rule out the possibility. ‘I’ll have to see what language there is,’ he said.” (Susan Milligan, “Kerry Says GOP May Target Him On ‘Wedge Issue,’” The Boston Globe, 2/6/04)

Flip-Flopped On Attacking President During Time Of War

In March 2003, Kerry Promised Not To Attack President When War Began. “Senator John F. Kerry of Massachusetts … said he will cease his complaints once the shooting starts. ‘It’s what you owe the troops,’ said a statement from Kerry, a Navy veteran of the Vietnam War. ‘I remember being one of those guys and reading news reports from home. If America is at war, I won’t speak a word without measuring how it’ll sound to the guys doing the fighting when they’re listening to their radios in the desert.’” (Glen Johnson, “Democrats On The Stump Plot Their War Rhetoric,” The Boston Globe, 3/11/03)

But Weeks Later, With Troops Just Miles From Baghdad, Kerry Broke His Pledge. “‘What we need now is not just a regime change in Saddam Hussein and Iraq, but we need a regime change in the United States,’ Kerry said in a speech at the Peterborough Town Library. Despite pledging two weeks ago to cool his criticism of the administration once war began, Kerry unleashed a barrage of criticism as US troops fought within 25 miles of Baghdad.” (Glen Johnson, “Kerry Says Us Needs Its Own ‘Regime Change,’” The Boston Globe, 4/3/03)

Flip-Flopped On Death Penalty For Terrorists

In 1996, Kerry Attacked Governor Bill Weld For Supporting Death Penalty For Terrorists. KERRY: “Your policy would amount to a terrorist protection policy. Mine would put them in jail.” (1996 Massachusetts Senate Debate, 9/16/96)

In 1996, Kerry Said, “You Can Change Your Mind On Things, But Not On Life-And-Death Issues.” (Timothy J. Connolly, “The ‘Snoozer’ Had Some Life,” [Worcester, MA] Telegram & Gazette, 7/3/96)

But, In 2002, Kerry Said He Supported Death Penalty For Terrorists. KERRY: “The law of the land is the law of the land, but I have also said that I am for the death penalty for terrorists because terrorists have declared war on your country.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 12/1/02)

Flip-Flopped On No Child Left Behind

Kerry Voted For No Child Left Behind Act. (H.R. 1, CQ Vote #371: Adopted 87-10: R 44-3; D 43-6; I 0-1, 12/18/01, Kerry Voted Yea)

But Now Kerry Is Attacking No Child Left Behind As “Mockery.” “Between now and the time I’m sworn in January 2005, I’m going to use every day to make this president accountable for making a mockery of the words ‘No Child Left Behind.’” (Holly Ramer, “Kerry Wants To Make ‘Environmental Justice’ A Priority,” The Associated Press, 4/22/03)

Kerry Trashed NCLB As ‘Unfunded Mandate’ With ‘Laudable’ Goals. “Kerry referred to [No Child Left Behind] as an ‘unfunded mandate’ with ‘laudable’ goals. ‘Without the resources, education reform is a sham,’ Kerry said. ‘I can’t wait to crisscross this country and hold this president accountable for making a mockery of the words “no child left behind.”‘“ (Matt Leon, “Sen. Kerry In Tune With Educators,” The [Quincy, MA] Patriot Ledger, 7/11/03)

Flip-Flopped On Affirmative Action

In 1992, Kerry Called Affirmative Action “Inherently Limited And Divisive.” “[W]hile praising affirmative action as ‘one kind of progress’ that grew out of civil rights court battles, Kerry said the focus on a rights-based agenda has ‘inadvertently driven most of our focus in this country not to the issue of what is happening to the kids who do not get touched by affirmative action, but … toward an inherently limited and divisive program which is called affirmative action.’ That agenda is limited, he said, because it benefits segments of black and minority populations, but not all. And it is divisive because it creates a ‘perception and a reality of reverse discrimination that has actually engendered racism.’” (Lynne Duke, “Senators Seek Serious Dialogue On Race,” The Washington Post, 4/8/92)

In 2004, Kerry Denied Ever Having Called Affirmative Action “Divisive.” CNN’s KELLY WALLACE: “We caught up with the Senator, who said he never called affirmative action divisive, and accused Clark of playing politics.” SEN. KERRY: “That’s not what I said. I said there are people who believe that. And I said mend it, don’t end it. He’s trying to change what I said, but you can go read the quote. I said very clearly I have always voted for it. I’ve always supported it. I’ve never, ever condemned it. I did what Jim Clyburn did and what Bill Clinton did, which is mend it. And Jim Clyburn wouldn’t be supporting it if it were otherwise. So let’s not have any politics here. Let’s keep the truth.” (CNN’s “Inside Politics,” 1/30/04)

Flip-Flopped On Ethanol

Kerry Twice Voted Against Tax Breaks For Ethanol. (S. Con. Res. 18, CQ Vote #44: Rejected 48-52: R 11-32; D 37-20, 3/23/93, Kerry Voted Nay; S. Con. Res. 18, CQ Vote #68: Motion Agreed To 55-43: R 2-40; D 53-3, 3/24/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

Kerry Voted Against Ethanol Mandates. (H.R. 4624, CQ Vote #255: Motion Agreed To 51-50: R 19-25; D 31-25, 8/3/94, Kerry Voted Nay)

Kerry Voted Twice To Increase Liability On Ethanol, Making It Equal To Regular Gasoline. (S. 517, CQ Vote #87: Motion Agreed To 57-42: R 38-10; D 18-32; I 1-0, 4/25/02 Kerry Voted Nay; S. 14, CQ Vote #208: Rejected 38-57: R 9-40; D 28-17; I 1-0, 6/5/03, Kerry Voted Yea)

On The Campaign Trail, Though, Kerry Is For Ethanol. KERRY: “I’m for ethanol, and I think it’s a very important partial ingredient of the overall mix of alternative and renewable fuels we ought to commit to.” (MSNBC/DNC, Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Des Moines, IA, 11/24/03)

Flip-Flopped On Cuba Sanctions

Senator Kerry Has Long Voted Against Stronger Cuba Sanctions. (H.R. 927, CQ Vote #489, Motion Rejected 59-36: R 50-2; D 9-34, 10/17/95, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 955, CQ Vote #183: Rejected 38-61: R 5-49; D 33-12, 7/17/97, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1234, CQ Vote #189, Motion Agreed To 55-43: R 43-10; D 12-33, 6/30/99, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2549, CQ Vote #137: Motion Agreed To 59-41: R 52-3; D 7-38, 6/20/00, Kerry Voted Nay)

In 2000, Kerry Said Florida Politics Is Only Reason Cuba Sanctions Still In Place. “Senator John F. Kerry, the Massachusetts Democrat and member of the Foreign Relations Committee, said in an interview that a reevaluation of relations with Cuba was ‘way overdue.’ ‘We have a frozen, stalemated, counterproductive policy that is not in humanitarian interests nor in our larger credibility interest in the region,’ Kerry said. … ‘It speaks volumes about the problems in the current American electoral process. … The only reason we don’t reevaluate the policy is the politics of Florida.’” (John Donnelly, “Policy Review Likely On Cuba,” The Boston Globe, 4/9/00)

Now Kerry Panders To Cuban Vote, Saying He Would Not Lift Embargo Against Cuba. TIM RUSSERT: “Would you consider lifting sanctions, lifting the embargo against Cuba?” SEN. KERRY: “Not unilaterally, not now, no.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 8/31/03)

Kerry Does Not Support “Opening Up The Embargo Wily Nilly.” “Kerry said he believes in ‘engagement’ with the communist island nation but that does not mean, ‘Open up the dialogue.’ He believes it ‘means travel and perhaps even remittances or cultural exchanges’ but he does not support ‘opening up the embargo wily nilly.’” (Daniel A. Ricker, “Kerry Says Bush Did Not Build A ‘Legitimate Coalition’ In Iraq,” The Miami Herald, 11/25/03)

Flip-Flopped On NAFTA

Kerry Voted For NAFTA. (H.R. 3450, CQ Vote #395: Passed 61-38: R 34-10; D 27-28, 11/20/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

Kerry Recognized NAFTA Is Our Future. “‘NAFTA recognizes the reality of today’s economy - globalization and technology,’ Kerry said. ‘Our future is not in competing at the low-level wage job; it is in creating high-wage, new technology jobs based on our skills and our productivity.’” (John Aloysius Farrell, “Senate’s OK Finalizes NAFTA Pact,” The Boston Globe, 11/21/93)

Now, Kerry Expresses Doubt About NAFTA. “Kerry, who voted for NAFTA in 1993, expressed some doubt about the strength of free-trade agreements. ‘If it were before me today, I would vote against it because it doesn’t have environmental or labor standards in it,’ he said.” (David Lightman, “Democrats Battle For Labor’s Backing,” Hartford Courant, 8/6/03)

Flip-Flopped On Double Taxation Of Dividends

December 2002: Kerry Favored Ending Double Taxation Of Dividends. “[T]o encourage investments in the jobs of the future - I think we should eliminate the tax on capital gains for investments in critical technology companies - zero capital gains on $100 million issuance of stock if it’s held for 5 years and has created real jobs. And we should attempt to end the double taxation of dividends.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At The City Club Of Cleveland, 12/3/02)

May 2003: Kerry Said He Opposed Ending Double Taxation Of Dividends. “Kerry also reiterated his opposition to the Republican plan to cut taxes on stock dividends. ‘This is not the time for a dividends tax cut that goes to individuals,’ he said.” (“Kerry Says Time Is On Dems’ Side,” The Associated Press, 5/8/03)

Flip-Flopped On Raising Taxes During Economic Downturn

September 2001: Said Should Not Raise Taxes In Economic Downturn. “The first priority is the economy of our nation. And when you have a downturn in the economy, the last thing you do is raise taxes or cut spending. We shouldn’t do either. We need to maintain a course that hopefully will stimulate the economy. . . . No, we should not raise taxes, but we have to put everything on the table to take a look at why we have this structural problem today. . . .[Y]ou don’t want to raise taxes.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 9/2/01)

We Should “Absolutely Not Raise Taxes.” “Well, I think it’s very clear what I favor because we voted for it early in the spring, which was the Democratic budget alternative that had triggers in it where you didn’t wind up spending money you don’t have. It had a smaller tax cut but more tax cut for a stimulus, which is what we need. So you ask me, what do we need now? Yes, we need additional stimulus. We should absolutely not raise taxes. We should not cut spending. What we need to do is drive the economy of this country. The economy is the number one issue. It is the most important thing we should focus on.” (CNN’s “Evans, Novak, Hunt & Shields,” 9/8/01)


April 2002: Said He Wanted Larger Tax Cut And Was “Not In Favor Of” Repeal. CNN’s TUCKER CARLSON: “Senator Kerry . . . [many Democrats] [g]et a lot of political mileage out of criticizing [President Bush’s tax cut], but nobody has the courage to say repeal it. Are you for repealing it?” KERRY: “It’s not a question of courage. . . . And it’s not an issue right now. We passed appropriately a tax cut as a stimulus, some $40 billion. Many of us thought it should have even maybe been a little bit larger this last year … [T]he next tax cut doesn’t take effect until 2004. If we can grow the economy enough between now and then, if we have sensible policies in place and make good choices, who knows what our choices will be. So it’s simply not a ripe issue right now. And I’m not in favor of turning around today and repealing it.” (CNN’s “Crossfire,” 4/16/02)

December 2002: Flip-Flopped, Would Keep Tax Cuts From Taking Effect. NBC’s TIM RUSSERT: “Senator . . . should we freeze or roll back the Bush tax cut?” KERRY: “Well, I wouldn’t take away from people who’ve already been given their tax cut … What I would not do is give any new Bush tax cuts.” … RUSSERT: “So the tax cut that’s scheduled to be implemented in the coming years …” KERRY: “No new tax cut under the Bush plan. . . . It doesn’t make economic sense.” … RUSSERT: “Now, this is a change …” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 12/1/02)


Called For Freeze Of Bush Tax Cuts In Favor Of Year-Long Suspension Of Payroll Taxes On First $10,000 Of Personal Income. “Kerry said Bush’s tax cuts have mainly benefited the rich while doing little for the economy. Kerry is proposing to halt Bush’s additional tax cuts and instead impose a yearlong suspension of payroll taxes on the first $10,000 of income to help the poor and middle class.” (Tyler Bridges, “Kerry Visits Miami To Start Raising Funds,” The Miami Herald, 12/7/02)

Flip-Flopped On Small Business Income Taxes

Kerry Voted Against Exempting Small Businesses And Family Farms From Clinton Income Tax Increase. (S. Con. Res. 18, CQ Vote #79: Motion Agreed To 54-45: R 0-43; D 54-2, 3/25/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

Three Months Later, Kerry Voted In Favor Of Proposal To Exclude Small Businesses From The Increased Income Tax. (S. 1134, CQ Vote #171: Motion Rejected 56-42: R 43-0; D 13-42, 6/24/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

Kerry Claimed He Fought To Exempt Small Businesses From Income Tax Increases. “I worked to amend the reconciliation bill so that it would … exempt small businesses who are classified as subchapter S corporations from the increased individual income tax.” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 6/29/93, p. S 8268)

Kerry Flip-Flopped On 50-Cent Gas Tax Increase

In 1994, Kerry Backed Half-Dollar Increase In Gas Tax. “Kerry said [the Concord Coalition’s scorecard] did not accurately reflect individual lawmakers’ efforts to cut the deficit. ‘It doesn’t reflect my $43 billion package of cuts or my support for a 50-cent increase in the gas tax,’ Kerry said.” (Jill Zuckman, “Deficit-Watch Group Gives High Marks To 7 N.E. Lawmakers,” The Boston Globe, 3/1/94)

Two Years Later, Kerry Flip-Flopped. “Kerry no longer supports the 50-cent [gas tax] hike, nor the 25-cent hike proposed by the [Concord] coalition.” (Michael Grunwald, “Kerry Gets Low Mark On Budgeting,” The Boston Globe, 4/30/96)

Flip-Flopped On Leaving Abortion Up To States

Kerry Used To Say Abortion Should Be Left Up To States. “I think the question of abortion is one that should be left for the states to decide,” Kerry said during his failed 1972 Congressional bid. (“John Kerry On The Issues,” The [Lowell, MA] Sun, 10/11/72)

Now Kerry Says Abortion Is Law Of Entire Nation. “The right to choose is the law of the United States. No person has the right to infringe on that freedom. Those of us who are in government have a special responsibility to see to it that the United States continues to protect this right, as it must protect all rights secured by the constitution.” (Sen. John Kerry [D-MA], Congressional Record, 1/22/85)

Flip-Flopped On Litmus Tests For Judicial Nominees

Kerry Used To Oppose Litmus Tests For Judicial Nominees. “Throughout two centuries, our federal judiciary has been a model institution, one which has insisted on the highest standards of conduct by our public servants and officials, and which has survived with undiminished respect. Today, I fear that this institution is threatened in a way that we have not seen before. … This threat is that of the appointment of a judiciary which is not independent, but narrowly ideological, through the systematic targeting of any judicial nominee who does not meet the rigid requirements of litmus tests imposed …” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 2/3/86, p. S864)

But Now Kerry Says He Would Only Support Supreme Court Nominees Who Pledge To Uphold Roe v. Wade. “The potential retirement of Supreme Court justices makes the 2004 presidential election especially important for women, Senator John F. Kerry told a group of female Democrats yesterday, and he pledged that if elected president he would nominate to the high court only supporters of abortion rights under its Roe v. Wade decision. … ‘Any president ought to appoint people to the Supreme Court who understand the Constitution and its interpretation by the Supreme Court. In my judgment, it is and has been settled law that women, Americans, have a defined right of privacy and that the government does not make the decision with respect to choice. Individuals do.’” (Glen Johnson, “Kerry Vows Court Picks To Be Abortion-Rights Supporters,” The Boston Globe, 4/9/03)

Flip-Flopped On Federal Health Benefits

In 1993, Kerry Expressed Doubts That Federal Employees Health Benefits System Worked Well. “Hillary Rodham Clinton today offered a fresh description of one of the most confusing elements of the Administration health care plan, the health insurance purchasing alliances, saying they would let all Americans choose coverage in the way members of Congress do. … Senator John Kerry, Democrat of Massachusetts, said he was not sure that the Federal program worked all that well.” (Adam Clymer, “Hillary Clinton Says Health Plan Will Be Familiar,” The New York Times, 12/8/93)

Kerry Expressed Personal Dissatisfaction With His Coverage Through Federal Program. “Earlier this month, when Hillary Rodham Clinton came to Boston and vowed that average Americans would get as good coverage as that enjoyed by their senators and representatives, Sen. John F. Kerry told Clinton that he thought the country could do better. The Massachusetts Democrat said he was thinking, among other recent disasters, of his $500 dental bill for treatment of an abscessed tooth. ‘Because it was done in the dentist’s office, rather than the hospital, they didn’t cover it. So they were urging me to go spend twice as much in a hospital,’ said Kerry, who is covered by BACE, the Beneficial Association of Capitol Employees.” (Ana Puga, “Lawmakers Talk Health Care,” The Boston Globe, 12/19/93)

Now, On Campaign Trail, Kerry Is Enthusiastic About Health Care He Receives As Senator. “As a U.S. Senator, I could get the best health care in the world. Most people aren’t so lucky, and we need to change that. That’s why my plan gives every American access to the same kind of health care that members of Congress give themselves. … Because your family’s health care is just as important as any politicians’ in Washington.” (Sen. John Kerry, “Affordable Health Care For All Americans,” Remarks At Mercy Medical, Cedar Rapids, IA, 12/14/03)

Kerry: “I’m Going To Make Available To Every American The Same Health Care Plan That Senators And Congressmen Give Themselves …” (Sen. John Kerry, AARP Democrat Candidate Debate, Bedford, NH, 11/18/03)

Flip-Flopped On Tax Credits For Small Business Health

In 2001, Kerry Voted Against Amendment Providing $70 Billion For Tax Credits For Small Business To Purchase Health Insurance. (H. Con. Res. 83, CQ Vote #83: Rejected 49-51: R 48-2; D 1-49, 4/5/01, Kerry Voted Nay)

Now, Kerry Promises Refundable Tax Credits To Small Businesses For Health Coverage. “Refundable tax credits for up to 50 percent of the cost of coverage will be offered to small businesses and their employees to make health care more affordable.” (“John Kerry’s Plan To Make Health Care Affordable To Every American,” John Kerry For President Website, www.johnkerry.com, (http://www.johnkerry.com,) Accessed 1/21/04)

Flip-Flopped On Health Coverage

In 1994, Kerry Said Democrats Push Health Care Too Much. “[Kerry] said Kennedy and Clinton’s insistence on pushing health care reform was a major cause of the Democratic Party’s problems at the polls.” (Joe Battenfeld, “Jenny Craig Hit With Sex Harassment Complaint - By Men,” Boston Herald, 11/30/94)

But Now Kerry Calls Health Care His “Passion.” “Sen. John Kerry says expanding coverage is ‘my passion.’” (Susan Page, “Health Specifics Could Backfire On Candidates,” USA Today, 6/2/03)

Flip-Flopped On Welfare Reform

In 1993, Kerry Voted To Kill Bipartisan Welfare Work Requirement. In 1993, Kerry and Kennedy voted against a welfare-to-work requirement that was supported by many Democrats, including Sens. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and Harry Reid (D-NV):

Fiscal 1993 Supplemental Appropriations - Welfare Work Requirement. “Moynihan, D-N.Y., motion to table (kill) the D’Amato, R-N.Y., amendment to sharply cut federal welfare administration aid to states that do not, within a year, require at least 10 percent of their able-bodied welfare recipients without dependents to work. The required workfare participation rate would be increased by 2 percent a year until 50 percent were working.” (H.R. 2118, CQ Vote #163: Rejected 34-64: R 1-42; D 33-22, 6/22/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

But In 1996, Kerry Voted For Welfare Reform. (H.R. 3734, CQ Vote #262: Adopted 78-21: R 53-0; D 25-21, 8/1/96, Kerry Voted Yea)

Flip-Flops On Stock Options Expensing

Kerry Used To Oppose Expensing Stock Options. “Democratic Senator John F. Kerry was among those fighting expensing of stock options.” (Sue Kirchhoff, “Senate Blocks Options,” The Boston Globe, 7/16/02)

Kerry Said Expensing Options Would Not “Benefit The Investing Public.” KERRY: “Mr. President, the Financial Accounting Standards Board … has proposed a rule that will require companies to amortize the value of stock options and deduct them off of their earnings statements … I simply cannot see how the FASB rule, as proposed, will benefit the investing public.” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 3/10/94, p. S2772)

But Now Kerry Says He Supports Carrying Of Stock Options As Corporate Expense. “On an issue related to corporate scandals, Kerry for the first time endorsed the carrying of stock options as a corporate expense. The use of stock options was abused by some companies and contributed to overly optimistic balance sheets. Kerry applauded steps by Microsoft Corp. to eliminate stock options for employees and said all publicly traded companies should be required to expense such options.” (Dan Balz, “Kerry Raps Bush Policy On Postwar Iraq,” The Washington Post, 7/11/03)

Flip-Flopped On Medical Marijuana

Kerry Said His “Personal Disposition Is Open To The Issue Of Medical Marijuana.” “Aaron Houston of the Granite Staters for Medical Marijuana said that just a month ago Mr. Kerry seemed to endorse medical marijuana use, and when asked about the content of his mysterious study, said, ‘I am trying to find out. I don’t know.’ Mr. Kerry did say his ‘personal disposition is open to the issue of medical marijuana’ and that he’d stop Drug Enforcement Administration raids on patients using the stuff under California’s medical marijuana law.” (Jennifer Harper, “Inside Politics,” The Washington Times, 8/8/03)

But Now Kerry Says He Wants To Wait For Study Analyzing Issue Before Making Final Decision. “The Massachusetts Democrat said Wednesday he’d put off any final decision on medical marijuana because there’s ‘a study under way analyzing what the science is.’” (Jennifer Harper, “Inside Politics,” The Washington Times, 8/8/03)

Flip-Flopped On Burma Sanctions

In 1995, Kerry Was Against Burma Sanctions. “‘I question whether isolation is a successful means of promoting political change,’ Kerry told a constituent in a 1995 letter justifying his opposition to a Burma sanction bill.” (Geeta Anand, et al., “Menino Gets Ahead Of Himself, Starts Contemplating Third Term,” The Boston Globe, 5/18/97)

But Now Kerry Supports Burma Sanctions. “In his 1996 reelection campaign, Kerry, after Governor William F. Weld took up the cause, was badgered by advisers into shifting his position. But as he eyes a presidential campaign and the Burma sanction movement gains credibility, Kerry … describes the Burma regime as a ‘semi-criminalized dictatorship … which should not be treated with respect by other nations, but should be instead subject to limitations on travel, investment, and access to the most developed nations.’” (Geeta Anand, et al., “Menino Gets Ahead Of Himself, Starts Contemplating Third Term,” The Boston Globe, 5/18/97)

Flip-Flopped On Military Experience As Credential For Public Office

Kerry: Service Should Not Be “Litmus Test” For Leadership. “Mr. President, you and I know that if support or opposition to the war were to become a litmus test for leadership, America would never have leaders or recover from the divisions created by that war. You and I know that if service or nonservice in the war is to become a test of qualification for high office, you would not have a Vice President, nor would you have a Secretary of Defense and our Nation would never recover from the divisions created by that war.” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/08/92, p. S17709)

But Now Kerry Constantly “Challenges The Stature Of His Democratic Opponents” Over Their Lack Of Military Service. “And more than ever, Mr. Kerry is invoking his stature as a Vietnam veteran as he challenges the stature of his Democratic opponents -- none of whom, he frequently points out, have ‘worn the uniform of our country’ -- to withstand a debate with Mr. Bush on national security.” (Adam Nagourney, “As Campaign Tightens, Kerry Sharpens Message,” The New York Times, 8/10/03)

Flip-Flopped On PACs

Kerry Used To Decry “Special Interests And Their PAC Money.” “‘I’m frequently told by cynics in Washington that refusing PAC money is naive,’ Kerry told his supporters in 1985. ‘Do you agree that it is “naďve” to turn down special interests and their PAC money?’” (Glen Johnson, “In A Switch, Kerry Is Launching A PAC,” The Boston Globe, 12/15/01)

But Now, Kerry Has Established His Own PAC. “A week after repeating that he has refused to accept donations from political action committees, Senator John F. Kerry announced yesterday that he was forming a committee that would accept PAC money for him to distribute to other Democratic candidates. … Kerry’s stance on soft money, unregulated donations funneled through political parties, puts him in the position of raising the type of money that he, McCain, and others in the campaign-finance reform movement are trying to eliminate.” (Glen Johnson, “In A Switch, Kerry Is Launching A PAC,” The Boston Globe, 12/15/01)

Flip-Flopped On $10,000 Donation Limit To His PAC

When Kerry Established His PAC In 2001, He Instituted A $10,000 Limit On Donations. “A week after repeating that he has refused to accept donations from political action committees, Senator John F. Kerry announced yesterday that he was forming a committee that would accept PAC money for him to distribute to other Democratic candidates … The statement also declared that the new PAC would voluntarily limit donations of so-called soft money to $10,000 per donor per year and disclose the source and amount of all such donations.” (Glen Johnson, “In A Switch, Kerry Is Launching A Pac,” The Boston Globe, 12/15/01)

One Year Later, Kerry Started Accepting Unlimited Contributions. “Senator John F. Kerry, who broke with personal precedent last year when he established his first political action committee, has changed his fund-raising guidelines again, dropping a $10,000 limit on contributions from individuals, a cap he had touted when establishing the PAC. The Massachusetts Democrat said yesterday he decided to accept unlimited contributions, which has already allowed him to take in ‘soft money’ donations as large as $25,000, because of the unprecedented fund-raising demands confronting him as a leader in the Senate Democratic caucus.” (Glen Johnson, “Kerry Shifts Fund-Raising Credo For His Own PAC,” The Boston Globe, 10/4/02)

Flip-Flopped On Using Personal Funds In 1996 Race

In 1996, Kerry And Weld Established $500,000 Limit Of Personal Wealth To Be Used In Senate Campaign. “In 1996, Kerry and Weld gave their already noteworthy Senate race added significance by establishing a spending cap. The candidates agreed to spend no more than $6.9 million from July 1 through the election. Weld ended up spending $6.6 million and Kerry $6.3 million. One key element of the agreement limited the candidates to spending $500,000 in personal wealth, a clause Weld favored because Kerry is married to a millionaire, Teresa Heinz.” (Glen Johnson, “In Kerry’s Plan For A Pac, The Resolution Of Opposites,” The Boston Globe, 12/18/01)

Kerry Broke Agreement By Spending $1.2 Million Over Limit. “[P]ost-election reports showed a last-minute infusion of $1.7 million from Kerry’s wife, heiress Teresa Heinz. … [K]erry denied that his campaign violated its agreement. The money had been loaned--not contributed--by his wife, he explained. ‘There was nothing in the agreement that restricted us from taking a loan … and we paid it back in $1,000 and $2,000 chunks.’” (“Global Ecology Lobby Rocked By Defection,” Political Finance, The Newsletter, 1/02)

Flip-Flopped On Israel Security Fence

October 2003: Kerry Calls Fence “Barrier To Peace.” “And I know how disheartened Palestinians are by the Israeli government’s decision to build a barrier off the green line, cutting deeply into Palestinian areas. We do not need another barrier to peace. Provocative and counterproductive measures only harm Israel’s security over the long- term, they increase hardships to the Palestinian people, and they make the process of negotiating an eventual settlement that much harder.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks Before Arab American Institute National Leadership Conference, Dearborn, MI, 10/17/03)

February 2004: Kerry Calls Fence “Legitimate Act Of Self-Defense.” “US Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, the frontrunner in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination, described Israel’s construction of a security barrier as a ‘legitimate act of self defense’ after Sunday’s suicide bombing in Jerusalem, clarifying a position he took in October when he told an Arab American audience, ‘We don’t need another barrier to peace.’” (Janine Zacharia, “Kerry Defends Security Fence,” The Jerusalem Post, 2/25/04)

Flip-Flop-Flipped On Ballistic Missile Defense

Kerry Called For Cancellation Of Missile Defense Systems In 1984 And Has Voted Against Funding For Missile Defense At Least 53 Times Between 1985 And 2000. (“John Kerry On The Defense Budget,” Campaign Position Paper, John Kerry For U.S. Senate, 1984; S. 1160, CQ Vote #99: Rejected 21-78: R 2-50; D 19-28, 6/4/85, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1160, CQ Vote #100: Rejected 38-57: R 6-45; D 32-12, 6/4/85, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1160, CQ Vote #101: Rejected 36-59: R 1-49; D 35-10, 6/4/85, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1160, CQ Vote #103: Rejected 33-62: R 28-22; D 5-40, 6/4/85, Kerry Voted Nay; H.J. Res. 465, CQ Vote #365: Motion Agreed To 64-32: R 49-2; D 15-30, 12/10/85, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 4515, CQ Vote #122: Ruled Non-Germane 45-47: R 7-42; D 38-5, 6/6/86, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2638, CQ Vote #176: Motion Agreed To 50-49: R 41-11; D 9-38, 8/5/86, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2638, CQ Vote #177: Rejected 49-50: R 10-42; D 39-8, 8/5/86, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1174, CQ Vote #248: Motion Agreed To 58-38: R 8-37; D 50-1, 9/17/87, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1174, CQ Vote #259: Motion Agreed To 51-50: R 37-9; D 13-41, With Vice President Bush Casting An “ Yea “ Vote, 9/22/87, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2355, CQ Vote #124: Motion Agreed To 66-29: R 38-6; D 28-23, 5/11/88, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2355, CQ Vote #125: Motion Agreed To 50-46: R 38-7; D 12-39, 5/11/88, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2355, CQ Vote #126: Motion Rejected 47-50: R 38-6; D 9-44, 5/11/88, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2355, CQ Vote #128: Motion Rejected 48-50: R 6-39; D 42-11, 5/11/88, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2355, CQ Vote #136: Motion Agreed To 56-37: R 9-34; D 47-3, 5/13/88, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2355, CQ Vote #137: Motion Agreed To 51-43: R 38-5; D 13-38, 5/13/88, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 4264, CQ Vote #251: Motion Rejected 35-58: R 35-9; D 0-49, 7/14/88, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 4781, CQ Vote #296: Motion Agreed To 50-44: R 5-39; D 45-5, 8/5/88, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1352, CQ Vote #148: Motion Agreed To 50-47: R 37-6; D 13-41, 7/27/89, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 3072, CQ Vote #202: Rejected 34-66: R 27-18; D 7-48, 9/26/89, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 3072, CQ Vote #213: Adopted 53-47: R 39-6; D 14-41, 9/28/89, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2884, CQ Vote #223: Adopted 54-44: R 2-42; D 52-2, 8/4/90, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2884, CQ Vote #225: Motion Agreed To 56-41: R 39-4; D 17-37, 8/4/90, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2884, CQ Vote #226: Motion Agreed To 54-43: R 37-6; D 17-37, 8/4/90, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 5803, CQ Vote #319: Adopted 80-17: R 37-6; D 43-11, 10/26/90, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 4739, CQ Vote #320: Adopted 80-17: R 37-6; D 43-11, 10/26/90, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1507, CQ Vote #168: Rejected 39-60: R 4-39; D 35-21, 7/31/91, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1507, CQ Vote #171: Motion Agreed To 60-38: R 40-3; D 20-35, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1507, CQ Vote #172: Motion Agreed To 64-34: R 39-4; D 25-30, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1507, CQ Vote #173: Rejected 46-52: R 5-38; D 41-14, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Yea; H.R. 2521, CQ Vote #207: Motion Agreed To 50-49: R 38-5; D 12-44, 9/25/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2403, CQ Vote #85: Adopted 61-38: R 7-36; D 54-2, 5/6/92, Kerry Voted Yea; H.R. 4990, CQ Vote #108: Adopted 90-9: R 34-9; D 56-0, 5/21/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 3114, CQ Vote #182: Motion Rejected 43-49: R 34-5; D 9-44, 8/7/92, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 3114, CQ Vote #214: Rejected 48-50: R 5-38; D 43-12, 9/17/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 3114, CQ Vote #215: Adopted 52-46: R 39-4; D 13-42, 9/17/92, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 5504, CQ Vote #228: Adopted 89-4: R 36-4; D 53-0, 9/22/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1298, CQ Vote #251: Adopted 50-48: R 6-36; D 44-12, 9/9/93, Kerry Voted Yea; S. Con. Res. 63, CQ Vote #64: Rejected 40-59: R 2-42; D 38-17, 3/22/94, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1026, CQ Vote #354: Motion Agreed To 51-48: R 47-6; D 4-42, 8/3/95, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1087, CQ Vote #384: Rejected 45-54: R 5-49; D 40-5, 8/10/95, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1087, CQ Vote #397: Passed 62-35: R 48-4; D 14-31, 9/5/95, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 1530, CQ Vote #399: Passed 64-34: R 50-3; D 14-31, 9/6/95, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 2126, CQ Vote #579: Adopted 59-39: R 48-5; D 11-34, 11/16/95, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 1530, CQ Vote #608: Adopted 51-43: R 47-2; D 4-41, 12/19/95, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1635, CQ Vote #157: Rejected 53-46: R 52-0; D 1-46, 6/4/96, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1745, CQ Vote #160: Rejected 44-53: R 4-49; D 40-4, 6/19/96, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1745, CQ Vote #187: Passed 68-31: R 50-2; D 18-29, 7/10/96, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 936, CQ Vote #171: Rejected 43-56: R 2-53; D 41-3, 7/11/97, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1873, CQ Vote #131: Motion Rejected 59-41: R 55-0; D 4-41, 5/13/98, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1873, CQ Vote #262: Motion Rejected 59-41: R 55-0; D 4-41, 9/9/98, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2549, CQ Vote #178: Motion Agreed To 52-48: R 52-3; D 0-45, 7/13/00, Kerry Voted Nay)

Kerry Then Claimed To Support Missile Defense. “I support the development of an effective defense against ballistic missiles that is deployed with maximum transparency and consultation with U.S. allies and other major powers. If there is a real potential of a rogue nation firing missiles at any city in the United States, responsible leadership requires that we make our best, most thoughtful efforts to defend against that threat. The same is true of accidental launch. If it were to happen, no leader could ever explain not having chosen to defend against the disaster when doing so made sense.” (Peace Action Website, “Where Do The Candidates Stand On Foreign Policy?” http://www.peace-action.org/2004/Kerry.html, Accessed 3/10/04)

Now Kerry Campaign Says He Will Defund Missile Defense. FOX NEWS’ MAJOR GARRETT: “Kerry would not say how much all of this would cost. A top military adviser said the Massachusetts Senator would pay for some of it by stopping all funds to deploy a national ballistic missile defense system, one that Kerry doesn’t believe will work.” KERRY ADVISOR RAND BEERS: “He would not go forward at this time because there is not a proof of concept.” (Fox News’ “Special Report,” 3/17/03)

Flip-Flopped On 1991 Iraq War Coalition

At The Time, Kerry Questioned Strength Of 1991 Coalition. “I keep hearing from people, ‘Well, the coalition is fragile, it won’t stay together,’ and my response to that is, if the coalition is so fragile, then what are the vital interests and what is it that compels us to risk our young American’s lives if the others aren’t willing to stay the … course of peace? … I voted against the president, I’m convinced we’re doing this the wrong way …” (CBS’ “This Morning,” 1/16/91)

Now Kerry Has Nothing But Praise For 1991 Coalition. SEN. JOHN KERRY: “In my speech on the floor of the Senate I made it clear, you are strongest when you act with other nations. All presidents, historically, his father, George Herbert Walker Bush, did a brilliant job of building a legitimate coalition and even got other people to help pay for the war.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 1/11/04)

Flip-Flopped On View Of War On Terror

Kerry Said War On Terror Is “Basically A Manhunt.” “Kerry was asked about Bush’s weekend appearance on ‘Meet the Press’ when he called himself a ‘war president.’ The senator, who watched the session, remarked: ‘The war on terrorism is a very different war from the way the president is trying to sell it to us. It’s a serious challenge, and it is a war of sorts, but it is not the kind of war they’re trying to market to America.’ Kerry characterized the war on terror as predominantly an intelligence-gathering and law enforcement operation. ‘It’s basically a manhunt,’ he said. ‘You gotta know who they are, where they are, what they’re planning, and you gotta be able to go get ‘em before they get us.’” (Katherine M. Skiba, “Bush, Kerry Turn Focus To Each Other,” Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 2/13/04)

Two Weeks Later, Kerry Flip-Flopped, Saying War On Terror Is More Than “A Manhunt”. “This war isn’t just a manhunt – a checklist of names from a deck of cards. In it, we do not face just one man or one terrorist group. We face a global jihadist movement of many groups, from different sources, with separate agendas, but all committed to assaulting the United States and free and open societies around the globe.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At University Of California At Los Angeles, Los Angeles, CA, 2/27/04)

Flip-Flopped On Funding For Our Troops In Iraq

Kerry Pledged To Fund Reconstruction With “Whatever Number” Of Dollars It Took. NBC’S TIM RUSSERT: “Do you believe that we should reduce funding that we are now providing for the operation in Iraq?” SEN. JOHN KERRY: “No. I think we should increase it.” RUSSERT: “Increase funding?” KERRY: “Yes.” RUSSERT: “By how much?” KERRY: “By whatever number of billions of dollars it takes to win. It is critical that the United States of America be successful in Iraq, Tim.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 8/31/03)

Then Kerry Voted Against Senate Passage Of Iraq/Afghanistan Reconstruction Package. “Passage of the bill that would appropriate $86.5 billion in fiscal 2004 supplemental spending for military operations and reconstruction in Iraq and Afghanistan. The bill would provide $10.3 billion as a grant to rebuild Iraq, including $5.1 billion for security and $5.2 billion for reconstruction costs. It also would provide $10 billion as a loan that would be converted to a grant if 90 percent of all bilateral debt incurred by the former Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein has been forgiven by other countries. Separate provisions limit reconstruction aid to $18.4 billion. It also would provide approximately $65.6 billion for military operations and maintenance and $1.3 billion for veterans medical care.” (S. 1689, CQ Vote #400: Passed 87-12: R 50-0; D 37-11; I 0-1, 10/17/03, Kerry Voted Nay)

Kerry Later Claimed: “I Actually Did Vote For The $87 Billion Before I Voted Against It.” (Glen Johnson, “Kerry Blasts Bush On Protecting Troops,” The Boston Globe, 3/17/04)

Flip-Flopped On Tapping Strategic Petroleum Reserve

In February 2000, Kerry Said Release Of Oil From Strategic Petroleum Reserve Would Not Be “Relevant.” “Without being specific, Kerry, a key member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, suggested the US could retaliate economically in other trade areas. He also said he does not want a release of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. A release ‘is not relevant. It would take months for the oil to get to the market,’ he said.” (Cathy Landry, “US Energy Chief Warns Of Gasoline Crisis,” Platt’s Oilgram News, 2/17/00)

Now, In March 2004, Kerry Called For Stop In Filling Strategic Petroleum Reserve To Reduce Prices. “Kerry would pressure oil-producing nations to increase production and temporarily suspend filling the U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve, according to campaign documents. ... ‘The Bush administration has put the SPR fill program on automatic pilot without regard to the short-term effect on the US market,’ the campaign documents said. ‘The program needs better management ... Kerry would temporarily suspend filling SPR until oil prices return to normal levels.’” (Patricia Wilson, “Kerry To Offer Plan To Reduce Record Gasoline Prices,” Reuters, 3/29/04)

Flip Flopped On Internet Taxation

In 1998, Kerry Voted To Allow States To Continue Taxing Internet Access After Moratorium Took Effect. Kerry voted against tabling an amendment that would extend the moratorium from two years to three years and allow states that currently impose taxes on Internet access to continue doing so after the moratorium takes effect. (S. 442, CQ Vote #306: Motion Rejected 28-69: R 27-27; D 1-42, 10/7/98, Kerry Voted Nay)

In 2001, Kerry Voted To Extend Internet Tax Moratorium Until 2005 And Allow States To Form Uniform Internet Tax System With Approval Of Congress. (H.R. 1552, CQ Vote #341: Motion Agreed To 57-43: R 35-14; D 22-28; I 0-1, 11/15/01, Kerry Voted Nay)

Kerry Said “We Do Not Support Any Tax On The Internet Itself.” “We do not support any tax on the Internet itself. We don’t support access taxes. We don’t support content taxes. We don’t support discriminatory taxes. Many of us would like to see a permanent moratorium on all of those kinds of taxes. At the same time, a lot of us were caught in a place where we thought it important to send the message that we have to get back to the table in order to come to a consensus as to how we equalize the economic playing field in the United States in a way that is fair.” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 11/15/01, p. S11902)

nikos
01-11-04, 14:10
to all U.S.A friends in this forum!
first: i like you all,and believe me,all the greek people like us people as well!
second: i really believe that most of you maybe all of you,really want to save the world from the bad guys,you want to protect us,to help poor countries!
but...,there is something you really don't know,and i am sure that if you ever understand what the reality is,then you will feel very bad! :(
your goverments[democrats or republicans are the same for me and for most of the greek people],have nothing to do with all these good feelings!
if you really believe that your goverment try to help iraq,afghanistan,etc you are totaly rong!we here, get the news from all the sides,not only cnn or skynews so we know very well what happen down there,the same things that happens to the ex-yougoslavia,vietnam,korea,etc...,nothing but lies,just to blind you, my good friends!
please try to learn news from indipendence sides,and you will feel really sick,with all that!
you will understand that all these bloody things happens in the name of money,oil contracts,and ofcourse power!
P.S i agree sadam,bin laden are *******s and for sure they deserve the penalty of death for their actions,but the solutions your govs try there are totaly rong!
P.S 2 i will respect your decisions for your elections,its your country by the way,but don't forget that this time you are risking many things,the most importand of all is, the feelings of the other people from the other nations,for you!
P.S 3 HAPPY RAIDING ANYWAY!I LOVE YOU ALL! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

TR3LaraCroft
01-11-04, 17:49
Wow, Raider X....that is a lot of info. Do you mind if I quote that on another message board?

Anyway, here is Bush`s stance on abortion (from his web site)
Defend the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban - President Bush will vigorously defend the Federal law banning the violent and brutal practice of partial birth abortion.
Prevent Federal Funding for Abortion - President Bush will continue to enforce restrictions that prevent the expenditure of Federal funds to support or promote abortion.

Neteru
01-11-04, 18:27
From bbc.co.uk (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3970677.stm)

The Campaign in Figures

</font> 75%: percentage of those in an ABC poll who thought it was the most important election of their lives</font> $272,573,444: Amount raised by President George W Bush (correct as of 13 October)</font> $249,305,109: Amount raised by Democratic challenger Senator John Kerry (correct as of 13 October)</font> 43,256: Number of times adverts were run from 21 to 27 October</font> $46,367,413: Total amount spent on adverts from 21 to 27 October</font> 208-169: US newspaper endorsements for Mr Kerry and President Bush (correct as of 31 October)</font>

larasfrend
01-11-04, 19:13
Originally posted by Flipper1987:
Originally posted by larasfrend:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I chose Kerry- anything BUT Bush. He's unconvincing, dangerous and a huge threat to world peace. He's just a little man who wants his oil, so he fakes the whole Saddam's got weapons of mass distruction. He also talks a whole load of cr@p half the time. It's a pity, that people outside of America see how dangerous Bush is, yet we have no powers in election. Surely one can see all this mess in Iraq and Afghanistan that he created. He said he was going to get Bin Laden in Afghanistan then he focused on Iraq and oops, the worlds most dangerous terrorrist just completely went missing. Did he leave Afghanistan? God knows.
Why is Bush interested in Iraq? Al Qaeda? Nope. He always was planning on 'doing Iraq' simply to continue his father's work.

Now I don't know Kerry that well, but anyone and I mean even a chimpansee could do a better job in creating world peace. Without war. How can anyone say so cooly: To make peace you need war? War is the opposite of peace and war scars and kills millions of people. Wow! What an incredible statement. :rolleyes: Normally I would ignore such sentiments but tonight I just can't help myself. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/clown.gif it's Halloween here after all.

"He's (President Bush) unconvincing, dangerous and a huge threat to world peace."

50 million people have been liberated, two totalitarian countries are being transformed into developing democracies, & the terrorists are really angry about it. I can understand your alarm.

"He's just a little man who wants his oil, so he fakes the whole Saddam's got weapons of mass distruction."

Yeah, that's right. You have obviously been paying attention over the last two years. :rolleyes:

"It's a pity, that people outside of America see how dangerous Bush is, yet we have no powers in election."

Based on your previous & future remarks, I thank God that you do not have a vote.

"Surely one can see all this mess in Iraq and Afghanistan that he created."

So apparently Iraq, under Saddam, & Afghanistan, under the Taliban, weren't messes? Right now they (the US-led coalition) are trying to set up democracies & spread individual freedoms. Yes, very messy. :confused:

"He said he was going to get Bin Laden in Afghanistan then he focused on Iraq and oops, the worlds most dangerous terrorrist just completely went missing. Did he leave Afghanistan? God knows."

Well you know it is possible to walk & chew gum at the same time. Perhaps you can assist us in finding Bin Laden. Most experts think that UBL is in western Pakistan (Musharaff has asked the U.S. not to send troops into that area) or in Iran, whose "government" has recently decided to enrich their uranium amidst shouts of "death to America," which thay have been chanting in Iran since 1979.

"Why is Bush interested in Iraq? Al Qaeda? Nope. He always was planning on 'doing Iraq' simply to continue his father's work."

Therefore, by your assertion, Bush had transparent plans to invade Iraq before 9/11. The only problem is that he hadn't made any plans to do such a thing. 9/11 made it impossible for the U.S. to allow Saddam (& his terrorist-friendly regime) to remain in power.

"Now I don't know Kerry that well, but anyone and I mean even a chimpansee could do a better job in creating world peace."

:rolleyes: Are you volunteering?

"How can anyone say so cooly: To make peace you need war? War is the opposite of peace and war scars and kills millions of people."

Actually, the quote you are referring to is: "to have peace one must PREPARE for war." It's one of those universal truths, especially in these times, that all parties agree with.

Good luck in school this year.

FLIPPER</font>[/QUOTE]Oh god Flipper. I clearly stated that these are just my views and I really just commented on how I feel, I didn't ask for a reply full of smileys with rolly eyes, but anyway- we may not agree with each other on this, but I respect your different opinions. I may not like Bush for what ever reasons, but anyway let's be friends. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif I hate arguments. :(

larasfrend
01-11-04, 19:20
Flipper- LOL It was really late when I wrote that, so I just pretty much wrote what I felt, but I'm afraid I don't agree with your first argument. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

I believe that first they're not yet democracies and second, it's being done in such a way that it is nuturing such strong anti American feeling throughout the Arab world.

Nothing to be proud of yet.

Flipper1987
01-11-04, 19:42
Originally posted by nikos:

but...,there is something you really don't know,and i am sure that if you ever understand what the reality is...

if you really believe that your goverment try to help iraq,afghanistan,etc you are totaly rong!Based on what exactly? What evidence do you possess to prove your questionable assertion is true? Are you suggesting that the U.S.-led coalition is in Iraq & Afghanistan to HURT the native populations?

Being anti-war doesn't make you right. It just makes you anti-war.

we here, get the news from all the sides,not only cnn or skynews so we know very well what happen down there.......nothing but lies,just to blind you, my good friends!Ah yes, I've seen this before: "I know everything while you poor Americans have been misled, duped, hoodwinked, brainwashed, yada yada yada."

This last statement reveals that you are truly not aware of the vast and varied media outlets that exist in the U.S. We have 5 major news networks, numerous newspapers & magazines, countless TV stations & talk radio programs, & widespread internet access. To suggest that ALL of these outlets are conspiring together in a massive cover up to "blind" Americans to the truth is naive. The free enterprise system & the intense competition that exists between all those outlets makes such a conspiracy impossible.

you will understand that all these bloody things happens in the name of money,oil contracts,and ofcourse power!If you're talking about Saddam & the Taliban, then I would agree with you. If you're talking about the multi-billion $ contracts that France & Russia signed with Saddam, then I also agree with you. Since you are suggesting that "money, oil contracts, & power" are the ONLY reasons for the U.S. being in Afghanistan & Iraq, then I completely reject it.

The U.S. & our allies are in Iraq & Afghanistan because of a little thing called the global War on Terror. Perhaps the superior news coverage that you receive in the fine country of Greece has mentioned this before.

but don't forget that this time you are risking many things,the most importand of all is, the feelings of the other people from the other nations,for you!That's a completely outrageous & irresponsible comment.

With all due respect, who gives a flying fart about the "feelings" of people from other countries (especially those who stand on the sidelines) when it comes to defending your own country?

Countries like the U.S. aren't going to get the permission or approval of others in order to do what is right & go after the terrorists. Don't get me wrong: it would be nice if the U.S. had more international support, but it won't stop them from protecting themselves.

FLIPPER

[ 01. November 2004, 21:56: Message edited by: Flipper1987 ]

Flipper1987
01-11-04, 19:57
Originally posted by larasfrend:
I believe that first they're not yet democraciesWell they just held democratic elections in Afghanistan & they're planning the same in Iraq this January. Transforming totalitarian countries into thriving democracies is not easy, especially when terrorists are trying to sabotage it at every step.

and second, it's being done in such a way that it is nuturing such strong anti American feeling throughout the Arab world.

Nothing to be proud of yet.So liberating 50 miliion people from totalitarian & oppressive governments is something that we shouldn't be "proud" of? I think you are concentrating too much on the negative.

As far as "anti-American feeling throughout the Arab world" goes, that has existed in the Middle East LONG before 9/11 & the invasions of Afghanistan & Iraq. If the U.S. liberates 50 million people from tyranny & the Arab Street is still angry with us, that shows how indoctrinated they have been for generations. Anti-western sentiment has existed in the Middle East long before you & I were born.

but anyway let's be friends. I hate arguments.I agree.

FLIPPER

[ 01. November 2004, 19:58: Message edited by: Flipper1987 ]

Raider X
01-11-04, 20:13
TR3LaraCroft, sure I don't mind. Get The message out!

Melonie Tomb Raider
02-11-04, 00:57
Hi Raider X. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif I read your post and i really like what you have to say. Way to go! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif Are you old enough to vote? I sure hope so, we need all the votes we can get. I'm a little over 2 weeks too young to vote, so that stinks, but I'm at least trying to convince peopel who can vote to vote for George W. Bush.

I found this article on Abortion. Here's a link:

[*mod action. link removed]

[ 02. November 2004, 01:44: Message edited by: laracroft8290 ]

Olvidarse
02-11-04, 01:36
Green party, y'all! :D

Jk

Draco
02-11-04, 02:50
Is it me or is abortion suddenly a taboo subject.

Capt. Murphy
02-11-04, 04:00
I voted absentee last week since I'll be busy at work updating our hotels' software and hardware. After reading a few replies in this topic, I remember why I don't bother with too many "political" topics. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/silent.gif *reaches for nitro pills* Anyway, I have faith that Bush will be re-elected. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-3.gif

4 More Years!!! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-5.gif

Melonie Tomb Raider
02-11-04, 04:39
Capt. Murphy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????!!!!!! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/yikes.gif I haven't seen you in a long time, it's great to have you back on the forums!!!! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif You're one of my favorite members of all time, so it's great to have you back. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

So you voted for Bush? That is so awesome!! if only I were 3 weeks older, then I'd have been able to vote. But I can't. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/violent.gif So now I'm mad. hehe, jk. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif I really hope Bush makes it, I've been emailing people all over America asking them to vote Bush. I just found random email addresses from pet websites and stuff, I looked everywhere lol. ( I probably bugged them to death).

Any way, today Bush is leading on the polls by 1 point!! :eek: It looks liek it is going to be a close campaign! I'll be watching the news as they show who gets what state and all, and I am gunna be so nervous! Man, I almost wish I could forget so the suspense wouldn't kill me haha. Any way, let's wait and see what happens. Go Bush!! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-5.gif

Capt. Murphy
02-11-04, 06:52
Hellooooooo Melonie! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/jumper.gif Thanks for the welcomeback. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

You're one of my favorite members of all time http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/redface.gif Aw, shucks. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif You too..... ;)

My home state is "leaning" towards Bush with 11 electoral college points. www.realclearpolitics.com (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Presidential_04/RCP_EC.html)

tazmine
02-11-04, 11:03
Originally posted by Draco:
Is it me or is abortion suddenly a taboo subject.I certainly hope it never becomes a taboo subject, because that is when it will be outlawed for sure. And to all of you who start talking about late 2nd or 3rd trimester abortions (partial birth abortions) the minute the subject comes up, I am speaking of 1st trimester abortions. A woman does have the right to choose.

andromeda_eats
02-11-04, 12:46
Originally posted by Draco:
Is it me or is abortion suddenly a taboo subject.It hasnt. I respect everyones opinion. But being revolted by graphic imagery is completly unnecessary and very selfish of an individual.

nikos
02-11-04, 13:47
some answers to my friend FLIPPER!
Based on what exactly? What evidence do you possess to prove your questionable assertion is true? Are you suggesting that the U.S.-led coalition is in Iraq & Afghanistan to HURT the native populations?

Being anti-war doesn't make you right. It just makes you anti-war.
NO!they are there to protect,U.S INTEREST!always u.s govs wanted to take the lead in this area,and this is the reason they help bin laden to defeat russians[don't forget that bin laden was a very good ally of the u.s!ha, and you try to convist the rest of the world to help you, to defeat that ******* ,that you were feeding with money and guns!oh no my friend, thats hypocrisy!]
If you're talking about Saddam & the Taliban, then I would agree with you. If you're talking about the multi-billion $ contracts that France & Russia signed with Saddam, then I also agree with you. Since you are suggesting that "money, oil contracts, & power" are the ONLY reasons for the U.S. being in Afghanistan & Iraq, then I completely reject it.The U.S. & our allies are in Iraq & Afghanistan because of a little thing called the global War on Terror. Perhaps the superior news coverage that you receive in the fine country of Greece has mentioned this before exactly this is all about my friend,we learn news very well and believe it or not the first origin here is cnn and all the u.s press!so we understand very clear that,u.s troops invade iraq not to protect the iraqi people from saddam but to cancel the oil contracts with russians[new allies now don't forget it! hehe!],french, etc... and take new contracts with u.s companies in which many MEMBERS are also very well known members of u.s govs[a well a coincidence maybe!lol!]
Ah yes, I've seen this before: "I know everything while you poor Americans have been misled, duped, hoodwinked, brainwashed, yada yada yada."

This last statement reveals that you are truly not aware of the vast and varied media outlets that exist in the U.S. We have 5 major news networks, numerous newspapers & magazines, countless TV stations & talk radio programs, & widespread internet access. To suggest that ALL of these outlets are conspiring together in a massive cover up to "blind" Americans to the truth is naive. The free enterprise system & the intense competition that exists between all those outlets makes such a conspiracy impossible. lol!1000 mouths BUT ONLY ONE voice!well we know that there are indipendent press,because plenty of u.s people are disagree with govs actions,i am not quite sure for that but i see that almost all of the americans artists are against your presindent,millions of simple people are protest against these bloody wars that u.s does[from korea to iraq and who knows next[iran,cuba,n.korea?]so probably they learn the news from somewhere else instead of cnn !
That's a completely outrageous & irresponsible comment.

With all due respect, who gives a flying fart about the "feelings" of people from other countries (especially those who stand on the sidelines) when it comes to defending your own country?

Countries like the U.S. aren't going to get the permission or approval of others in order to do what is right & go after the terrorists. Don't get me wrong: it would be nice if the U.S. had more international support, but it won't stop them from protecting themselves. oh my god!yes if you get right you have to do what you like!
BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE RIGHT!TRY FOR GOD' S NAME TO UNDERSTAND THIS!
p.s the terrorist actions against usa start from your ex-friend bin ladden,please tell to the goverment to deal with him ,but leave the rest of the world to live in peace!
ANYWAY HAPPY VOTING,AND I WISH NO MORE TERROR ACTIONS IN YOUR REALLY BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

Melonie Tomb Raider
02-11-04, 14:23
Originally posted by Capt. Murphy:
Hellooooooo Melonie! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/jumper.gif Thanks for the welcomeback. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> You're one of my favorite members of all time http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/redface.gif Aw, shucks. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif You too..... ;)

My home state is "leaning" towards Bush with 11 electoral college points. www.realclearpolitics.com (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Presidential_04/RCP_EC.html)</font>[/QUOTE]Hi again http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif . So you're homestate is leaning towards Bush? That is so awesome! I did live in NY until just recently my Dad, being in the Army, got orders for Georgia, but we live in Alabama. Right on the border line. I'm pretty sure our state will go Bush, but we will have to just wait and see. I've had my worries, but today when I woke up I just started praying a lot, and now I feel a lot better. I have total confidence in Bush, I just know he can win. Plus, I have confidence in God of course, and I know He is in control, so that's always a comforting thought. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

SpArKy
02-11-04, 14:55
Originally posted by tazmine:
You mean so long as the US sees themselves as the conquering heroes, & the Iraquis see themselves as invaded?Can i just say it was the British that owned Iraq years ago when we haad our Empire, and we were stupid to ever let them have it back.
If only the British Empire still ruled, i can assure you there would be peace.
I vote Bush, i dont know kerry, but i know Bush starts War, but its rather them first then the enemy stack up weapons then attack you, undoubtably!

TR3LaraCroft
02-11-04, 15:52
[/qb][/QUOTE] Plus, I have confidence in God of course, and I know He is in control, so that's always a comforting thought. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif [/QB][/QUOTE]

I know what you mean Mel. This is what I keep saying to myself. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif I`m not going to worry.
I think Ohio will go Bush! I`m hoping....glad I live in a swing state http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-5.gif . Although not for long I`m moving to Tennessee this year! Anyway Go BUSH!!!!!

P.S. Thanks Raider X http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

[ 02. November 2004, 15:58: Message edited by: TR3LaraCroft ]

AnotherLara
02-11-04, 17:19
Originally posted by Melonie Tomb Raider: I've had my worries, but today when I woke up I just started praying a lot, and now I feel a lot better. I have total confidence in Bush, I just know he can win. Plus, I have confidence in God of course, and I know He is in control, so that's always a comforting thought. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif And that being the case if Kerry wins you'll be delighted by God's decision, of course. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/whistle.gif

SpArKy
02-11-04, 17:30
OMG Jaio, how long since you last posted, i have missed you loads for some reason, welcome back!

Love you :eek: Really do http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/clown.gif

Melonie Tomb Raider
02-11-04, 18:05
I know what you mean Mel. This is what I keep saying to myself. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif I`m not going to worry.
I think Ohio will go Bush! I`m hoping....glad I live in a swing state http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-5.gif . Although not for long I`m moving to Tennessee this year! Anyway Go BUSH!!!!!

P.S. Thanks Raider X http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif Well that's good you won't be worrying as well. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif A part of me really starts to worry, but then when I feel like that I just pray, and it helps so much!!!

That is so cool you live in a swing state though! I really, really, really hope Ohio goes Bush. I'm sure the ywill though, it's looking really close though, so we'll have to wait and see. I'm hoping Bush gets FlA, OH, and FLA right away, then it's a sure fire win for him. But like I said, we will have to wait and see. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Oh, and Jiao, in reply to your comment. If Kerry makes it I definately won't be glad, I will be extremely disapointed. You see, if Kerry gets in office it doesn't necissarily mean God made him get in office. You see, just like a death. God didn't kill the person, but He allowed that person to die. I think the situation would be much like that is Kerry were elected president, because most of what Kerry believes is unBiblical. Any way, it's great to see you back on the forums Jiao. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

Melonie Tomb Raider
02-11-04, 18:11
oh, one more thing. TR3, you said you were moving to Tennessee soon? I lived in Tennessee for 3 years when I was a kid! It's a great place, I'm sure you will love it!! If you are getting sick of the cold weather in Ohio ( like I was in New york) then Tennessee will be a refreshing change. I know Ohio gets cold winters, but I dunno how long. I know New York has snow for about 8 months out of the year, and the rest of the 4 months are terrible too haha. I love snow, but not too much. Any way, I am sure you will love Tennesse, it's such a gorgeous place.

larasfrend
02-11-04, 18:16
Hey JIAO! :D Also haven't seen you for ages! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

Isabella
02-11-04, 18:23
Originally posted by Melonie Tomb Raider:
[QUOTE]

Oh, and Jiao, in reply to your comment. If Kerry makes it I definately won't be glad, I will be extremely disapointed. You see, if Kerry gets in office it doesn't necissarily mean God made him get in office. :rolleyes: Perhaps Isis then?

Church and State should never merge, that is a very dangerous road to go down.

TR3LaraCroft
02-11-04, 18:45
Originally posted by Melonie Tomb Raider:
oh, one more thing. TR3, you said you were moving to Tennessee soon? I lived in Tennessee for 3 years when I was a kid! It's a great place, I'm sure you will love it!! If you are getting sick of the cold weather in Ohio ( like I was in New york) then Tennessee will be a refreshing change. I know Ohio gets cold winters, but I dunno how long. I know New York has snow for about 8 months out of the year, and the rest of the 4 months are terrible too haha. I love snow, but not too much. Any way, I am sure you will love Tennesse, it's such a gorgeous place.Yeah I know. We just took a trip down there....and we loved it. The weather is great. I love snow too , but it`s really only pretty for like a day. Then you just can`t wait for spring. I`m really looking forward to moving there. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/jumper.gif . Everyone is so friendly too. It`s great!

Draco
02-11-04, 23:38
God won't decide this election, we do have free will don't we?

Anyone find it funny that I, a nonbeliever, joined the GOP?

Isabella
03-11-04, 00:30
Were the brownies that good? http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Draco
03-11-04, 00:43
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Well when it came time to decide, I went with capitalist over socialist. The Republican Party is more in line with my viewpoints. And I wanted to be in either DNC or RNC, since I may run for office one day and I don't want to be a Nader or Perot.

tazmine
03-11-04, 01:09
So Mel, let's see if I understand you correctly.

Your quote:
I have total confidence in Bush, I just know he can win. Plus, I have confidence in God of course, and I know He is in control, so that's always a comforting thought.

You see, if Kerry gets in office it doesn't necissarily mean God made him get in office. You see, just like a death. God didn't kill the person, but He allowed that person to die. I think the situation would be much like that is Kerry were elected president, because most of what Kerry believes is unBiblical.

End of your quote.

So, if Bush gets in, it's because God is in control, but if Kerry gets in, it's because God didn't cause it.

I'm amazed you would know how god would vote.

nikos
03-11-04, 13:22
a sad day?no!
the real sad days will come next![i hope not, but let's be prepared!] http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/yikes.gif

hello neteru http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif !don't worry anyway,be happy,noone can make us feel bad,because our conscience is clear!we did what we have to do each one from his side but.... ;)

Flipper1987
04-11-04, 01:46
Originally posted by nikos:
NO!they are there to protect,U.S INTEREST!always u.s govs wanted to take the lead in this area,and this is the reason they help bin laden to defeat russians[don't forget that bin laden was a very good ally of the u.s!ha, and you try to convist the rest of the world to help you, to defeat that ******* ,that you were feeding with money and guns!oh no my friend, thats hypocrisy!You are referring to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. In the early 80s, Bin Laden was not the terrorist he is now. If the U.S. had a crystal ball in 1979, they would have assassinated Bin Laden on the spot.

Bin Laden & other rebels in Afghanistan had the same goal as the U.S.: to expel the Soviets from Afghanistan. And Bin Laden was receiving financial & military aid from OTHER COUNTRIES besides the U.S.

After all, the U.S. assisted the Soviet Union during World War II only to square off against them during the Cold War. Was that wrong? The Red Army helped to defeat the Nazi war machine in the East.

I'm sure Greece has assisted countries in the past only to confront them years later. That's not hypocrisy, it's just an unfortunate reality that happens from time to time in world history.

...so we understand very clear that,u.s troops invade iraq not to protect the iraqi people from saddam but to cancel the oil contracts with russians[new allies now don't forget it! hehe!],french, etc... and take new contracts with u.s companies in which many MEMBERS are also very well known members of u.s govs[a well a coincidence maybe!Ah, the old rallying cry that the ONLY reason why the U.S. is in Iraq is for oil. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-4.gif

....i see that almost all of the americans artists are against your presindent,So? Acting in a movie or playing a guitar doesn't make you an international expert.

millions of simple people are protest against these bloody wars that u.s does[from korea to iraq and who knows next[iran,cuba,n.korea?]so probably they learn the news from somewhere else instead of cnn!Protests in free, democratic countries are common during any war. You mentioned CNN, which has consistently been anti-Bush & anti-Republican since its inception. I only watch that channel just to remind me how biased they can be at times.

oh my god!yes if you get right you have to do what you like!
BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE RIGHT!TRY FOR GOD' S NAME TO UNDERSTAND THIS!Standing by & allowing your adversaries to build up their military, & then attacking them only after they have become stronger is dangerous. For years European nations stood by & watched Nazi Germany & Fascist Italy build up their militaries. They did nothing to deal with this threat. Only when Hitler was at the height of his military power did Great Britain & France finally decide to do something significant.

How did that turn out? How many millions of people died because Europe was doing exactly what you think the U.S. should do now?

p.s the terrorist actions against usa start from your ex-friend bin ladden,please tell to the goverment to deal with him ,but leave the rest of the world to live in peace!You mean stand by & do nothing while N. Korea & Iran develop nuclear weapons? Perhaps the U.S. should only support U.N.-led sanctions & corrupt programs that enrich dictators like Saddam while innocent Iraqi civilians suffer?

Standing by & doing nothing allowed Al-Qaeda & the Taliban to dominate Afghanistan & train thousands of terrorists. The U.S. & the world allowed these terrorists to "live in peace" & look what has happened.

Have a nice day. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

FLIPPER