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Solice
12-05-11, 00:16
Story (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700134492/White-House-defends-invite-to-rapper-Common.html?s_cid=rss-15)

Apparently, people are upset that this guy was invited to the White House because of some controversial lyrics.

Well, I am upset too but not because of the lyrics. I'm upset because they would invite a rapper to a poetry workshop :mad: I mean, that would be like inviting a kazoo player to play Mozart (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0pKOAdQoRs):rolleyes::D

trlestew
12-05-11, 00:31
You do know rap is a form of poetry, right?

And from what I've read, it looks like a bunch of oversensitivity and political correctness.

Encore
12-05-11, 00:38
Some rappers are excellent poets.

trlestew
12-05-11, 00:46
Some rappers are excellent poets.

Like Tupac, but he has passed away over a decade ago. :(

Encore
12-05-11, 00:48
Yep. And also Eminem (well, IMO anyway). Rap isn't even a genre I particularly like, but I know how to appreciate good lyrics when I hear them.

Apathetic
12-05-11, 00:54
Eminem is psycho.

EmeraldFields
12-05-11, 01:01
And Common is actually one of the few rappers out there that doesn't constantly exploit women and raps about more subjects than just gang bangs and getting paper. He's had some sexy ladies in his videos, but they're not the booty shakin' video hos of say 50 Cent.

Nice try tho.

SamReeves
12-05-11, 01:50
I don't even know who that is.

Sir Mix a Lot, tons better, and better butts in his videos.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e372/laurenkane00/bands/001031_23.jpg

Solice
12-05-11, 03:00
You do know rap is a form of poetry, right?



It's junk food for the mind. Abandon the masses and raise your standards and you will live a more fulfilling life. Do you want to read verses that are both intricate and eloquent? Try Amy Newman (http://www.webdelsol.com/InPosse/IPR_Newman.htm)

Avalon SARL
12-05-11, 03:08
How can rap be poetic

Since when swearing became poetic...
I never liked rap and never will
AFAIK most rap songs have terrible words and they are full of swearing which I never understood the reason behind that

Qualopek
12-05-11, 04:19
Good that they did. Common's lyrics are a lot deeper than most of the typical garbage heard on the radio as stated above.

TRexbait
12-05-11, 04:26
I feel like you're over generalizing rap. While it's not a style I particularly listen to, some of it actually has good lyrics that aren't all swear words. Shocking, I know.

Dennis's Mom
12-05-11, 12:00
I remember the first rap song that really impressed me was "Bust a Move" by Young MC. It was some of the cleverest rhyme I had ever heard, and the way he changed the scansion, pronunciation and reversed syntax to make the rhyme reminded me of what Shakespeare used to do.

I don't care for much rap anymore. After that early period, it degenerated into a lot of misogynistic BS it seemed. Gone was the fresh wordplay that caught my ear. In it's place was a plodding, funeral dirge beat that thought adding sounds that rhyme to the ends of words that don't constituted rhyme. :( I stopped paying attention long ago.

I have no doubt, however, some of it could be considered good poetry, even great poetry. It's just not music that appeals to me.

Personally, I think the White House dust up is all a bunch of racist crap. Is it any wonder Sarah Palin is in the middle of it? Still trying to pretend Barack Obama isn't "American" like your "American?" Is it only OK to violent imagery and rhetoric if you're white, Ms. "Don't Retreat, Reload"?

Minty Mouth
12-05-11, 12:03
Rhyming is the lowest form of poetry.

Encore
12-05-11, 12:11
I feel like you're over generalizing rap. While it's not a style I particularly listen to, some of it actually has good lyrics that aren't all swear words. Shocking, I know.

Yeah exactly, plus I grew up listening to the Beastie Boys, and they are actually talented as musicians too. So I'm pretty open minded about this subject.

jajay119
12-05-11, 12:14
Story (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700134492/White-House-defends-invite-to-rapper-Common.html?s_cid=rss-15)

Apparently, people are upset that this guy was invited to the White House because of some controversial lyrics.

Well, I am upset too but not because of the lyrics. I'm upset because they would invite a rapper to a poetry workshop :mad: I mean, that would be like inviting a kazoo player to play Mozart (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0pKOAdQoRs):rolleyes::D

The bottom line of it is, whatever his profession, he was a friend of Michelle's and she has the right to invite who she wants!

Dennis's Mom
12-05-11, 12:18
Rhyming is the lowest form of poetry.

I disagree. I think the ability to construct wonderful something with limits is more impressive than no rules.

Ultimately, though, poetry is art and can't be judged against anything but a standard of excellence and personal response.

interstellardave
12-05-11, 12:40
I disagree. I think the ability to construct wonderful something with limits is more impressive than no rules.

Ultimately, though, poetry is art and can't be judged against anything but a standard of excellence and personal response.

I tend to agree... I like to rhyme, although it sometimes isn't necessary, or even appropriate.

The ants are forever busy
Hidden amidst the savannah grass so tall
Oblivious to the raging battle,
And unaware of the mighty lions' fall

(not my best but I only spent the last 5 minutes on it... it's going somewhere, so I should finish it one day) :p

TRfan23
12-05-11, 12:42
Rhyming is the lowest form of poetry.

It's a Crime not to Rhyme ;)

Necromanser
12-05-11, 12:58
It's junk food for the mind. Abandon the masses and raise your standards and you will live a more fulfilling life. Do you want to read verses that are both intricate and eloquent? Try Amy Newman (http://www.webdelsol.com/InPosse/IPR_Newman.htm)
A bit intelectually elitist don't you think :p? There are bound to be lyrics that are as deep as some poems, also rapping( in it's modern form) hasn't been around for that long while poetry has literally been around for ages. Give it time eh

Minty Mouth
12-05-11, 16:38
I disagree. I think the ability to construct wonderful something with limits is more impressive than no rules.

Ultimately, though, poetry is art and can't be judged against anything but a standard of excellence and personal response.

They make poems feel cheesy to me. I feel you need a pretty tight meter to carry a rhyme, and often rhyming poetry sacrifices any real content to service the rhyme. A good rhyme does not a good poem make. The constriction often limits the poem's potential, rather than broadening it.

In the sense of it being the lowest form, doesn't mean it can't be done well, or used effectively. Sarcasm is the lowest form of humour, and I get plenty of mileage out of that.

I've only heard one rap song that seemd even remotely poetic, and that was a rap/pop song where the poetry was in the pop chorus, not the rap verse.

DragonSlayer
12-05-11, 17:30
You do know rap is a form of poetry, right?

And from what I've read, it looks like a bunch of oversensitivity and political correctness.

Here here bloody political correctness stupid killjoys can't keep their bloody noses out of what isn't their business.

Super Badnik
12-05-11, 20:10
I don't actually know "Common", rap isn't exactly my thing, listening to my brother play Eminem crap kind of puts me off. But from a political point of view, how totally yet predictably pathetic. :rolleyes:

t-raider26
12-05-11, 20:15
Not all of rap is garbage. Don't just generalize things because you're uneducated on the subject. A lot of rap is brilliant. I think it's great that he was invited.

Alpharaider47
12-05-11, 20:16
It wouldn't surprise me if KKK and Neo Nazis were invited to the White House in the future as well. I'm all for allowing the common man access to the government, but c'mon, at least previous presidents(Jackson comes to mind) got things done whilst inviting friends and common people into the White House... :p

Chocola teapot
12-05-11, 20:21
To be perfectly honest, I was never a fan of Rap... until Nicki Minaj appeared.

She makes it fabulous and satirical. http://i.imgur.com/5skoG.png

trlestew
13-05-11, 00:13
It's junk food for the mind. Abandon the masses and raise your standards and you will live a more fulfilling life. Do you want to read verses that are both intricate and eloquent? Try Amy Newman (http://www.webdelsol.com/InPosse/IPR_Newman.htm)

I'm sorry, but this is so incredibly ignorant, and somewhat rude as well.

I have a feeling that you generalize rap as people swearing about how rich they are, or how good their cars are, or how many women they have etc. It's not. How about you raise your standards, be more accepting, and actually have a clue about all forms of rap before calling it "junk"
How can rap be poetic

Since when swearing became poetic...

Wow... :rolleyes:

leglion
13-05-11, 00:28
I'm sorry, but this is so incredibly ignorant, and somewhat rude as well.

I have a feeling that you generalize rap as people swearing about how rich they are, or how good their cars are, or how many women they have etc. It's not. How about you raise your standards, be more accepting, and actually have a clue about all forms of rap before calling it "junk"

Wow... :rolleyes:

C/S
Some people seem to be forgetting there are people that sing about that stuff in almost all music genres. Music in general has gone down the drain, not only rap.

SamReeves
13-05-11, 00:31
It wouldn't surprise me if KKK and Neo Nazis were invited to the White House in the future as well. I'm all for allowing the common man access to the government, but c'mon, at least previous presidents(Jackson comes to mind) got things done whilst inviting friends and common people into the White House... :p

Don't forget the old Soviets…wait a minute, wasn't Van Jones a Soviet? :yik:

Solice
13-05-11, 00:38
I'm sorry, but this is so incredibly ignorant, and somewhat rude as well.

I have a feeling that you generalize rap as people swearing about how rich they are, or how good their cars are, or how many women they have etc. It's not. How about you raise your standards, be more accepting, and actually have a clue about all forms of rap before calling it "junk"

Wow... :rolleyes:

I never said that, and I never said it's not poetry. I contest that it's like the kazoo in the orchestra. Regardless of what they are saying, dirty or not, it's a crude form of poetry that gets more credit than it deserves. I bet you didn't even read Amy Newman. That would require that you actually think, which most people want to avoid now. Just go back to your brain gruel.

leglion
13-05-11, 00:41
I never said that, and I never said it's not poetry. I contest that it's like the kazoo in the orchestra. Regardless of what they are saying, dirty or not, it's a crude form of poetry that gets more credit than it deserves. I bet you didn't even read Amy Newman. That would require that you actually think, which most people want to avoid now. Just go back to your brain gruel.

Crude? That just happens to be your opinion right?

I disagree. I think the ability to construct wonderful something with limits is more impressive than no rules.

Ultimately, though, poetry is art and can't be judged against anything but a standard of excellence and personal response.

Necromanser
13-05-11, 01:07
I never said that, and I never said it's not poetry. I contest that it's like the kazoo in the orchestra. Regardless of what they are saying, dirty or not, it's a crude form of poetry that gets more credit than it deserves. I bet you didn't even read Amy Newman. That would require that you actually think, which most people want to avoid now. Just go back to your brain gruel.
Brain gruel can also be used to describe that thread that you created with all the damn pictures of cats.

Lenochka
13-05-11, 01:20
It's junk food for the mind. Abandon the masses and raise your standards and you will live a more fulfilling life. Do you want to read verses that are both intricate and eloquent? Try Amy Newman (http://www.webdelsol.com/InPosse/IPR_Newman.htm)

Wow, you are so intellectual and special. I wish I could be more like you.


Not all of rap is garbage. Don't just generalize things because you're uneducated on the subject. A lot of rap is brilliant. I think it's great that he was invited.

This. It makes me happy that they aren't gonna push them to the side just because of the genre they are a part of.

Uzi master
13-05-11, 01:28
I never said that, and I never said it's not poetry. I contest that it's like the kazoo in the orchestra. Regardless of what they are saying, dirty or not, it's a crude form of poetry that gets more credit than it deserves. I bet you didn't even read Amy Newman. That would require that you actually think, which most people want to avoid now. Just go back to your brain gruel.

http://i52.************/2lmm137.gif

seriously:rolleyes:

Lara's Nemesis
13-05-11, 01:33
Sounds like the White House is trying to get "down with the kids" for their own purposes. Remember Tony Blair invited Oasis to Downing Street for the same kind of reasons imo.

Ward Dragon
13-05-11, 01:36
^^ Is that gif trying to give someone a seizure? XD

Rhyming is the lowest form of poetry.

I completely disagree. I personally think non-rhyming poetry sucks and would do better to be written as prose. If poetry doesn't have a natural pattern and rhythm to it then it seems stilted and badly written. So far I have yet to read a non-rhyming poem that actually flows nicely. Of course there exists bad rhyming poetry as well, but also fantastic stuff like this (http://www.potw.org/archive/potw22.html) ^_^

Uzi master
13-05-11, 01:41
^^ Is that gif trying to give someone a seizure? XD


Maybe...

Paddy
13-05-11, 01:42
Lol I am not a fan of rap at all but I dont see the big deal behind this. Theres a lot of modern rap I actually cant stand due to what some sing about but thats not to label all of them with the same brush, some rappers are actually genius at what they do and are creative.

Carbonek_0051
13-05-11, 02:30
Rhyming is the lowest form of poetry.

Wow, thanks for insulting all my poems. :tmb:

Encore
13-05-11, 11:27
Wow, thanks for insulting all my poems. :tmb:

...and all the poems of a lot of poets over the centuries, at that. Lmao. :vlol: Some members in this forum really should leave the high horse once in a while, it's healthy. :pi:

Dennis's Mom
13-05-11, 11:53
Or maybe members should simply learn to use the "IMO" a little more liberally.http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/LisaB1138/smilies/13.gif It never hurts.

trlestew
13-05-11, 20:20
I never said that, and I never said it's not poetry. I contest that it's like the kazoo in the orchestra. Regardless of what they are saying, dirty or not, it's a crude form of poetry that gets more credit than it deserves. I bet you didn't even read Amy Newman. That would require that you actually think, which most people want to avoid now. Just go back to your brain gruel.

Block list! :D

Seriously, that's not they way you try to defend your opinion. It's just downright rude and arrogant.

Minty Mouth
13-05-11, 21:36
Wow, thanks for insulting all my poems. :tmb:

My poetry rhymes, too.

Biddy
13-05-11, 21:44
Old-school rap is defiantly one of the music genres I hold close to heart, there's a lot of wit and reality to the lyrics that some seem to overlook, it's poetry, IMO.

Minty Mouth
13-05-11, 21:54
I completely disagree. I personally think non-rhyming poetry sucks and would do better to be written as prose. If poetry doesn't have a natural pattern and rhythm to it then it seems stilted and badly written. So far I have yet to read a non-rhyming poem that actually flows nicely. Of course there exists bad rhyming poetry as well, but also fantastic stuff like this (http://www.potw.org/archive/potw22.html) ^_^

One of my favourite poems is actually written entirely in couplets. Here, the enjambment softens the rhyme a bit, though. A thick rhyme at the end of each sentence can be really overpowering and a little too chirpy for me.

I was the shadow of the waxwing slain
By the false azure in the windowpane;
I was the smudge of ashen fluff—and I
Lived on, flew on, in the reflected sky.
And from the inside, too, I’d duplicate
Myself, my lamp, an apple on a plate:
Uncurtaining the night, I’d let dark glass
Hang all the furniture above the grass,
And how delightful when a fall of snow
10 Covered my glimpse of lawn and reached up so
As to make chair and bed exactly stand
Upon that snow, out in that crystal land!

Opening of Pale Fire - Vladimir Nabokov

But some poems without rhymes seem to be enchanting in another way.

Bone-spur, stirrup of veins—white colt
a tree, sapling bone again, worn to a splinter,
a steeple, the birch aground

in its ravine of leaves. Abide with me, arrive
at its skinned branches, its arms pulled
from the sapling, your wrist taut,

each ganglion a gash in the tree's rent
trunk, a child's hackwork, love plus love,
my palms in your fist, that

trio a trident splitting the birch, its bark
papyrus, its scars calligraphy,
a ghost story written on

winding sheets, the trunk bowing, dead is
my father, the birch reading the news
of the day aloud as if we hadn't

heard it, the root moss lit gas,
like the veins on your ink-stained hand-
the birch all elbows, taking us in.

Birch - Cynthia Zarin

My last post explains my thoughts a little better! Of course, an 'IMO' is always implied when talking about matters of subjectivity.

Ward Dragon
14-05-11, 00:31
^ Those examples demonstrate what I meant. The rhyming one has a nice rhythm to it, which I like. Unfortunately I can't seem to find the rhythm of the second poem, and having line breaks (and even stanza breaks) randomly throughout the sentences makes it seem disjointed to me. It makes more sense to me if it was written out as prose without any line breaks.

In any case, I think writing a good rhyming poem is more difficult than writing a non-rhyming poem. However that doesn't mean that rhyming is the lowest form of poetry, it just means that fewer people can do it right so there's bound to be a lot of failed attempts :p