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View Full Version : For CD: Quick-Time Events in TReboot - What you liked and what you didn't like?


Pietras
10-06-11, 01:14
Please, before answering in this thread watch the extended TReboot "Cavern" demo from GameSpot:
http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6318948/tomb-raider-e3-2011-stage-demo?hd=1&tag=top_stories%3Bplay_btn%3B1

In case you didn't like any of the QTEs in the extended TReboot demo and/or don't like the concept of QTEs in general and want them all removed, remember that this (removing all QTEs) is not going to happen at this stage of development so pretty please, instead post the most constructive suggestions you can come up with on how to improve them.

All posts in this thread are personal opinion of every poster by default, including mine :) Let's keep this thread as focus and tight for CD to reference as possible :)

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Remove The Metal Spike QTE:
I think it's just great. Perfectly paced, perfectly executed, very immersive, emotional and involving. Having X as the button to push makes perfect sense here because it's the general action button in the standard gameplay as well, we use it often to make Lara do something with her hands (pull a switch, open doors, pick up a key etc). Having to push X rapidly until we get the spike out is a very good decision because it simulates having to use bigger force necessary to remove the spike stuck in her side. This scene is a perfect example of a good Quick-Time Event IMO.

2nd scavenger fight QTE:
Another very good example IMO. I like how we have to use the left analog stick to make Lara kick him. We already use the left analog stick in standard gameplay to literally control her legs (and make them move the character around) so it fits to use the same input method in a QTE involving legs. Rapidly pushing LS/L1 from side to side simulates Lara pulling her legs up and straightening them to kick repeatedly very well.

2nd scavenger fight QTE:
The only complaint I have about this scene is the usage of X at the end. Like I said earlier, I like how we have to use the left analog stick to make Lara kick the scavenger. It's clear, makes sense and translates well. But the random X popping out of nowhere to make the final kick is just unnecessary and breaks the immersion IMO, especially considering it is established in the same scene that legs are controlled with LS/L1. But this is not a very big complaint unlike...

The final climbing QTE:
The final scene of Lara climbing was unfortunately a mess IMO. Obviously this is an early code, but the way it's executed now needs to be reworked. The scene was not well paced and the camera shifts were very abrupt and distracting.

It would be better IMO to have this scene just be analog controlled, with the camera behind Lara all the time so would be climbing towards the light at the end of the tunnel (a very powerful image which was unfortunately damaged by the abrupt camera shifts) while at the same time having to avoid the falling boulders ourselves, manually (with LS/L1). I like QTEs when they're executed in appropriate moments, like in the the 'Remove The Metal Spike' QTE which was fantastic. But in this scene it's just unnecessary and reminded me strongly of now-archaic QTEs from Legend. Not to mention at the time the final scene comes in, it just feels like there's way too much QTEs in one level and this is coming from me, someone who actually likes QTEs (when well executed).

Other solution could be either removing the falling boulders from the LT/RT-controlled QTE scene completely, or execute their implementation better. But I still think this scene should be simply analog-controlled. From what I know about games, I don't think transforming this one scene into analog-controlled would be a big problem. But it would make it much better IMO. Especially considering this is the big finale of the opening level which has to be perfect to leave a good impression.

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That's my opinion, please post yours and your ideas how to improve specific QTE scenes (if you feel it's needed/necessary).

Sir Croft
10-06-11, 01:18
Tl;dr.

I didn't mind the QTEs I've seen. Don't overuse them, though.

Camera Obscura
10-06-11, 01:24
Yeah, there was something about the final QTE that seemed a little awkward and abrupt. Honestly, I don't think it should be a QTE because it seemed like it can be integrated into full gameplay if tweaked a bit.

Shark_Blade
10-06-11, 01:26
I like them in this game, seems more Uncharted and RE4/5 style.

I don't want those dumb ones like in Legend and TRA to return.:)

Sir Croft
10-06-11, 01:30
Yeah, there was something about the final QTE that seemed a little awkward and abrupt. Honestly, I don't think it should be a QTE because it seemed like it can be integrated into full gameplay if tweaked a bit.

They could make it as a semi-QTE. You must push the analog stick forward to make her move, and quickly press the trigger buttons to make her move faster, it makes you feel more in-control. Then when the boulders fall, the button prompts show up and she does that scripted dodges as she can't do that during normal gameplay, I guess.

Pietras
10-06-11, 01:41
They could make it as a semi-QTE. You must push the analog stick forward to make her move, and quickly press the trigger buttons to make her move faster, it makes you feel more in-control. Then when the boulders fall, the button prompts show up and she does that scripted dodges as she can't do that during normal gameplay, I guess.
Or you could use shoulder buttons do make her dodge (while holding analog to make her go up), L1/LT to dodge to the left, R1/RT to dodge to the right, choosing which side to dodge to, what do you think? That would make the scene have it own little/unique/contextual control scheme instead of archaic 1-choice prompts like in Legend.

!Lara Croft!
10-06-11, 01:42
I dont think the final QTE needs to be there at all. I would like it to be fully in the players contol with the stick to move up (perhaps tapping X to go faster?). And if the player moves the stick left or right lara rolls left and right, this way the boulders can come down and you can dodge them yourself.

Also no slow-mo...

Sir Croft
10-06-11, 01:48
Or you could use shoulder buttons do make her dodge (while holding analog to make her go up), L1/LT to dodge to the left, R1/RT to dodge to the right, choosing which side to dodge to, what do you think? That would make the scene have it own little/unique/contextual control scheme instead of archaic 1-choice prompts like in Legend.

Yes, I think that would be great. Doesn't the wolf fight scene have its own contextual control scheme? At least that's what I got from the articles.

_Awestruck_
10-06-11, 01:49
Hate quick time events. I will be pissed if the game is littered with them.

Pietras
10-06-11, 01:49
Also no slow-mo...
Definitely agree about no slow-motion. IMO it creates an effect opposite to the desired one. It slows the scene and kind of breaks it. If they make the boulders start falling early enough but not late enough, at the right moment, this will give the players a chance do dodge it yet remain very dynamic and adrenaline-pumping. Slow motion takes away the dynamism of a boulder (or any other object) about to crush the character. It may work in normal cutscene or a trailer/movie, but not in a gameplay scene, even if it's a QTE.

NYCL@R@
10-06-11, 01:54
the last qte brought back legend again and thats a no no, they need to perfect that or take it off

KC Mraz
10-06-11, 02:02
I don't mind quick time events at all. Mainly because Crystal did not limit themselves to the main buttons (A, B, X, and Y, or their PS3 equivalent). Plus, the camera angles and the lack of loading times make them much more fluid and they look like an actual part of the level, and not like a cutscene with buttons like the scenes from Anniversary.

silver_wolf
10-06-11, 02:05
I'm not too fond of the last one, mainly because it seems poorly edited/animated/whatever, and I don't like the slow-mo.

Pietras
10-06-11, 02:30
I'm not too fond of the last one, mainly because it seems poorly edited/animated/whatever, and I don't like the slow-mo.
The last one definitely stands out (glad they showed only glimpse of it at MS conference lol). The rest were good with the first one absolutely perfect IMO. Would never take the first one away, it's just amazing IMO :D

_Awestruck_
10-06-11, 02:35
Simple ones like the first one I don't mind, but I did not like that last one at all.

Pietras
10-06-11, 02:38
Simple ones like the first one I don't mind, but I did not like that last one at all.
Don't worry, doesn't seem like anyone liked the last one :p Even me who doesn't mind QTEs much in general :o

skylark1121
10-06-11, 02:41
I love the metal spike!! I think it is great. Most of the QTE is pretty impressive to me right now. Except for the last one when she is crawling. It just needs to be tidied up a bit, but I like the whole button action.

larafan25
10-06-11, 02:51
I dont think the final QTE needs to be there at all. I would like it to be fully in the players contol with the stick to move up (perhaps tapping X to go faster?). And if the player moves the stick left or right lara rolls left and right, this way the boulders can come down and you can dodge them yourself.

Also no slow-mo...

So basically, you want different buttons options?

Because we are pressing buttons over and over to make her climb and we press a button to dodge the incoming rocks....so we have full control. It's just done in a cinematic fashion with a camera angle that wouldn't work to well with analog controls (IMO).

The QTE I've seen seem fine however they should try to get as much happening in general gameplay as possible....

!Lara Croft!
10-06-11, 02:54
You misinterpreted. The current ones are buttons designed specifically for that QTE, and the prompts that only let you dodge when they appear. They dont let you have full control, they olly let you push them when prompted, otherwise they do nothing.

My method is to keep the same control system as before. So you can make her climb and decend with forward and back, then left and right to roll in the corresponding directions. All these can be done whenever the player wants, not whenever the game decides its time too.

Also tapping X might work as a means to go faster uphill.

_Awestruck_
10-06-11, 02:54
So basically, you want different buttons options?

Because we are pressing buttons over and over to make her climb and we press a button to dodge the incoming rocks....so we have full control. It's just done in a cinematic fashion with a camera angle that wouldn't work to well with analog controls (IMO).

The QTE I've seen seem fine however they should try to get as much happening in general gameplay as possible....

I don't think we'll be climbing using LT/RT button's though, so it is different. It may be full control, but it's not the same thing as climbing in regular gameplay. And I don't think if we're climbing outside of QTE's huge, annoying buttons won't appear on the screen.

larafan25
10-06-11, 02:56
You misinterpreted. The current ones are buttons designed specifically for that QTE, and the prompts that only let you dodge when they appear. They dont let you have full control, they olly let you push them when prompted, otherwise they do nothing.

My method is to keep the same control system as before. So you can make her climb and decend with forward and back, then left and right to roll in the corresponding directions. All these can be done whenever the player wants, not whenever the game decides its time too.

Also tapping X might work as a means to go faster uphill.

I don't think we'll be climbing using LT/RT button's though, so it is different. It may be full control, but it's not the same thing as climbing in regular gameplay. And I don't think if we're climbing outside of QTE's huge, annoying buttons won't appear on the screen.

I see what you mean.

totona86
10-06-11, 02:57
Yeah, there was something about the final QTE that seemed a little awkward and abrupt. Honestly, I don't think it should be a QTE because it seemed like it can be integrated into full gameplay if tweaked a bit.

this,
she paused, slowmo, the rock, didn't seem right visually, you can do that part with a regular "move forward" and "step right or left" if a rock is coming towards you.

QTE's take the suspense and frenzy of that fabulous cave escape.

skylark1121
10-06-11, 03:02
I don't think we'll be climbing using LT/RT button's though, so it is different. It may be full control, but it's not the same thing as climbing in regular gameplay. And I don't think if we're climbing outside of QTE's huge, annoying buttons won't appear on the screen.

We may even have the option to turn the 'buttons on screen' off like in underworld. :pi:

jajay119
10-06-11, 06:31
I don't mind in game QTEs like TR has, what I don't like is interactive cut scenes that ruin the cut-scene, the narrative and, as in the case of TRL and TRA do things you could do yourself in game that might actually be a challenge.

The QTEs in TR are specifically designed for their environs, plus they show Lara's weaker spirit which is important for this game at least at the begining, I get the feeling that as Lara grows colder and less resistant to combat, the amount of QTEs will be replaced by actual combat, and so long as the game isn't inundated with them I'm fine with them.

Cochrane
10-06-11, 07:14
Well, first of all, all QTEs have to go. I know it is very unlikely that this will happen, but I'm not going to pretend that I don't want it.

1) Remove the metal spike QTE:
It seems as if I won't die when I get the timing wrong, so I guess it could be worse. A significant problem here is story-wise: Should Lara really pull that out, from a medical point of view? And what is the point of that entire sequence? First we set Lara on fire, then a drop, then a spike I believe the situation is dire enough, no need to have us torture her. It just feels redundant. I might be more positive towards that scene if we could see the spike beforehand, and control Lara so that she doesn't land on it. A QTE as a saving move seems okay to me.

2) First scavenger fight
I'd have to see what the motion looks like in detail. As it is, it seems like it could be annoying to actually perform that move. I guess in the particular case where one grabs here, such a move may be appropriate, but players should have an option to avoid being captured to begin with. Even in the tutorial level.

3) Second scavenger fight
Again, waggling an analog stick seems like it might be annoying. And the final "press another button to really kill it" move is a stupid idea, just like it was in Underworld or in PoP Sands of Time. The real issue, of course, is again that we can't avoid this QTE: It and the guy pop out of nowhere. We can't outrun him, avoid him or anything. We can't even try.

4) Rock climbing
Now that scene is just pure and utter crap. Apart from imagining how much fun it will be to press those two triggers the entire time, it is also something that should be in gameplay. There is no point to having this a QTE, other than giving us a different camera angle, and that is so not worth it.


So in short: I think the short QTEs can be OK as saving moves, if we were stupid enough to get captured, land on a spike, whatever. But forcing us through them feels cheap. And QTEs that replace normal gameplay must die. Preferably with lots of fire, which seems to be Lara's default mode for any problem she encounters in this short gameplay trailer.

RAID
10-06-11, 07:19
I hate QTE. They should be optional. but at least they're not lame like Legend's and Anniversary's were.

Spong
10-06-11, 07:59
Now I've watched the extended (and far better quality) GS demo I have to say I don't have too much of a problem with any of the QTE's really. In general, I quite like 'em in games really, I just hope Crystal don't overdo them.

I've only read Pietras's OP, so apologies if I'm repeating someone else's idea. The only thing I'd change is the spike QTE. I'd rather use an analogue stick to pull the spike out than mashing the X-button, it just seems like a more intuitive movement to me.

Supernova
10-06-11, 08:08
I have to agree with the OP.

If well exectuted (like removing the spike) these QTE's are no problem.
But if they are overused (especially for action scenes like the climbing at the end) it takes away from the expierence. Like the boring QTE's from TRL and TRA, and RE5 comes to mind right away as well.

I hope they don't overdose on these events, and only keep it for cool stuff, like shaking off enemies.

I also think it's important that a wrong press of a button shouldn't lead to your death right away if you're quick enough to recover. For example, you have to press X to kick away your attacker, but if I press A I shouldn't be crushed to death by a boulder just yet, at least give me time to press X instead. As long as the original window of pressing the button hasn't disappeared that is. I hate dying because I had less than a second to press one button, or wasn't quick enough.

Spong
10-06-11, 08:15
I also think it's important that a wrong press of a button shouldn't lead to your death right away if you're quick enough to recover. For example, you have to press X to kick away your attacker, but if I press A I shouldn't be crushed to death by a boulder just yet, at least give me time to press X instead. As long as the original window of pressing the button hasn't disappeared that is. I hate dying because I had less than a second to press one button, or wasn't quick enough.

Good call :tmb:

Laras Backpack
10-06-11, 08:23
So in short: I think the short QTEs can be OK as saving moves, if we were stupid enough to get captured, land on a spike, whatever. But forcing us through them feels cheap. And QTEs that replace normal gameplay must die. Preferably with lots of fire, which seems to be Lara's default mode for any problem she encounters in this short gameplay trailer.

This.

paulwork
10-06-11, 09:05
Great thread:tmb: Good way of summarizing the QTEs we've been exposed to up until now.

In principle I don't mind one or two QTEs in any game, but I don't think they belong in a TR game. Rapid timed in-game movements like the TRA centaur adrenalin dodge are of course most welcome.

What does frustrate me is seeing QTE's which replace Lara's acrobatics e.g Lara must shoot down a rock and backflip out of the way at the last split-second, leaving her opponent crushed under the rock. You could easily and skillfully do that in-game without resorting to QTEs.

The only QTEs I have ever seen work well for me in a game are the ones in Heavy Rain because they mimick real-life movements. E.g the gaming character gets out of a car by pulling down the door handle, and pushing open the door, which is more or less mimicked with a down, press and push movement on the analog controls according to how firm or softly you perform the manoeuvre within the allowed timeframe. So if we must have QTEs, they should be knocked up a notch to be more challenging with use of the analog sticks.

Suwayyah
10-06-11, 09:23
I don't really like QTEs, but I like slowmo effects. Usually I don't appreciate interactive cut-scenes, because I can't sit back and enjoy the fascinating scenario (which the player earned after solving a fenomenal puzzle). I guess somehow it should involve the player, but I wouldn't mind at all if they would disappear, and the whole game would focus on other style of gameplay.

dcw123
10-06-11, 09:38
Great thread:tmb: Good way of summarizing the QTEs we've been exposed to up until now.

In principle I don't mind one or two QTEs in any game, but I don't think they belong in a TR game. Rapid timed in-game movements like the TRA centaur adrenalin dodge are of course most welcome.

What does frustrate me is seeing QTE's which replace Lara's acrobatics e.g Lara must shoot down a rock and backflip out of the way at the last split-second, leaving her opponent crushed under the rock. You could easily and skillfully do that in-game without resorting to QTEs.

The only QTEs I have ever seen work well for me in a game are the ones in Heavy Rain because they mimick real-life movements. E.g the gaming character gets out of a car by pulling down the door handle, and pushing open the door, which is more or less mimicked with a down, press and push movement on the analog controls according to how firm or softly you perform the manoeuvre within the allowed timeframe. So if we must have QTEs, they should be knocked up a notch to be more challenging with use of the analog sticks.

This..
Said it before and I'll say it again, games like Heavy Rain added suspence and even things like if you did a analogue stick too fast or slow, you'd fail ..

For Eg .. Lara removes the spike by slowly pulling the LS to the left .. do it too hard or too fast and she's in pain - leads to restarting .. Good Idea??
While just X surfises here .. later QTE's aren't good esp. the rock climb .. :(

ZIP!2009
10-06-11, 09:44
The wolf fight is a quick time event also. :)

Samsdad
10-06-11, 14:32
I do not mind QTEs if used well.

As to the last QTE I think it may have come from listening to the fans too much on the manual grab issue. The main argument for manual grab was that it made the game more immersive. You felt more connected with the avatar if you had to push a button to grab a ledge. So, CD probably figured that it would make it more immersive if you had to press alternating buttons to simulate Lara scrambling up the ledge. If you want to simulate frentic action you generally go with a rapid button(s) press sequence so I would guess that that is what CD was going for.

Linoshi Croft
10-06-11, 15:39
I like how the QTE's are used and hope they are used through out the game but not constantly and don't over shadow combat. It's been comfirmed they want and alot of effort is going into making the combat better than any other AAA titles so I'm perfectly optimistic.

I know some people don't like the last one but personally I love it, it just needs to be smoother and a little less sharp camera angle changes. Plus the transition in to it needs to actually exist :vlol: Other than that I liked how it played out.

larafan25
10-06-11, 15:40
Now I've watched the extended (and far better quality) GS demo I have to say I don't have too much of a problem with any of the QTE's really. In general, I quite like 'em in games really, I just hope Crystal don't overdo them.

I've only read Pietras's OP, so apologies if I'm repeating someone else's idea. The only thing I'd change is the spike QTE. I'd rather use an analogue stick to pull the spike out than mashing the X-button, it just seems like a more intuitive movement to me.

I agree with this analog spike thing.

Kelly Craftman
10-06-11, 16:00
Tl;dr.

I didn't mind the QTEs I've seen. Don't overuse them, though.

This.

Carbonek_0051
10-06-11, 17:42
Tl;dr.

I didn't mind the QTEs I've seen. Don't overuse them, though.

Plus won.

Kelly Craftman
10-06-11, 17:45
However the time slowed down (spolier) when bolder fell down I would love for it to be the same all the way through.

Trigger_happy
11-06-11, 15:14
I don't like QTEs- I think they detract from immersion and simplify things too much. However, since CD seem intent on using the, just don't put them in for everything. The one where you pull yourself off the spike is okay, since it would otherwise be a video, but having cool set pieces replaced by 'tap x to do everything' makes it pointless.

larafan25
11-06-11, 15:39
Also, with the new climbing revelation. The ability to press jump over and over again to scramble up a wall, the final QTE seems more reasonable too.

However it's still easy to see how you could take the tumbling sequence and invert it so you have the final QTE in game. Lara scrambling up the incline as you direct her and constantly press the jump button.

Mikky
11-06-11, 15:48
The more QTEs, the better. I just think they're so much fun. No, not the actual QTEs themselves, the death sequences that follow when you fail! :D I'm so excited! :jmp:

Love2Raid
11-06-11, 15:49
I don't mind the ones I have seen so far. The spike one is good, reminds me of *SPOILER, DO NOT QUOTE PLEASE* when Soap pulls out the knife at the end of MW2 *SPOILER, DO NOT QUOTE PLEASE*, I think you even have to press the same button lol...

The following two are excellent as well. This is a sort of introduction level, she can't really fight yet so this is the best way to handle it. I think the buttons to press also seem right.

The last part went a bit fast, the rest of it looks great. I love that you do not have to press a random button to *spoiler* evade the boulders *spoiler*, but you actually use the analog to steer in the right direction.

However, I really hope the rest of the game has less QTE's, because I don't really like them.

Linoshi Croft
11-06-11, 16:02
Well QTE's for combat will no longer be needed when Lara get weapons so it's all good.

Rai
11-06-11, 16:10
@Love2Raid *avoids quoting* Will you quit saying what I want to say before I say it?! :mad: Just kidding :p as I agree with what you've said here, except the part you've put massive spoiler tags around as I don't know what you're talking about. The escaping the scavenger QTEs remind me of TRA's freeing Lara from an enemy.

I'm only presuming the last part is fast due to Lara needing to frantically get out of there. i hope regular climbing will be more natural and the player can choose how fast to go, though I imagine the same buttons will be needed. I'm guessing if you're not fast enough at that particular part, Lara will fall and die :eek:

larafan25
11-06-11, 16:14
Well QTE's for combat will no longer be needed when Lara get weapons so it's all good.

QTE are for cinematic events. Even when she has weapons there will be dramatic and milestone events which are done with QTE.

Lara has a bow on her back and uses on of the arrows to kill the wolf which attacks her in the cave. So combat was there.

Linoshi Croft
11-06-11, 16:37
QTE are for cinematic events. Even when she has weapons there will be dramatic and milestone events which are done with QTE.

Lara has a bow on her back and uses on of the arrows to kill the wolf which attacks her in the cave. So combat was there.

I don't mean they will be completely replaced but they will be limited.

LNSNHGTDS
11-06-11, 17:05
Loved 'em! I don't have anything specific to say, I always love things like that and because when it comes to video games my sadistic side comes out and I love to see what happens if I don't press the right button.

I loved the intercative cutscenes in Legend and Anniversary and I love the quick-time events in Tomb Raider. I'd like to see one or two every once in a while as the story progresses.

Love2Raid
11-06-11, 17:06
@Love2Raid *avoids quoting* Will you quit saying what I want to say before I say it?! :mad: Just kidding :p as I agree with what you've said here, except the part you've put massive spoiler tags around as I don't know what you're talking about. The escaping the scavenger QTEs remind me of TRA's freeing Lara from an enemy.

I'm only presuming the last part is fast due to Lara needing to frantically get out of there. i hope regular climbing will be more natural and the player can choose how fast to go, though I imagine the same buttons will be needed. I'm guessing if you're not fast enough at that particular part, Lara will fall and die :eek:
:vlol::D:hug:

I bet you are right! The place is collapsing, she will probably get trapped if you are not fast enough. :cln:

I'm just glad there are no sequences of random buttons to press. There were none in Underworld, which I was very happy with, and I'm glad to see they have not returned either. :D