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Quasimodo
28-07-11, 08:23
Norway's prison system is getting a lot of media attention in the wake of the shooting massacre. The prison that the shooter may go to is unique because it is very luxurious (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8661444/Norway-killer-could-be-held-in-luxury-prison.html) compared to the typical prisons in many other first world countries. This Norwegian prison looks more like a summer camp than a penitentiary for dangerous sociopaths. Norway's crime rate stands out amongst other wealthy countries as well: it boasts a homicide rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate) of .6 per 100,000 people.

Do you think Norway's crime rate speaks for the effectiveness of its prison system, or could its low homicide rate be attributed more to other factors? Is there a lesson here for other Western countries (like the U.S.) to make prisons more effective at rehabilitating criminals?

Greenkey2
28-07-11, 08:41
I think that perhaps the effectiveness of Norway's prison system does not, necessarily, reflect soley on the prison system itself.

Nothing exists in isolation. Over here in Britain, we are used to a certain type of reaction when you say 'prison'. That reaction varies but typically seems to run, 'oh yeah, they're overcrowded yeah? And like, you get free educational stuff and a TV in your cell... yeah, I knew a guy whose mate whose brother went to prison for jacking a stereo, was back a month later.'

:rolleyes:

How effective a prison is at rehabilitating people is probably reflected in how they are seen to do so. If the Norwegians as a whole believe that prisons do a good job, then chances are they will. Over here in Britain, there almost seems to be a badge of honour amongst the borderline-criminal group to be sent to prison. It's something you can use to cadge a free smoke off your mates when you get back and still have no idea what to do with your life... because prison in this country is more like a glorified naughty corner than a deterrant to crime.

In Norway, where the crime rate (as you point out Quasi) is compartively low, perhaps the wider social expectations of the prison system mean that those who are sent there are more likely to reflect on their lifestyle and crimes as a bad thing to be reconciled.

Long post :o

EmeraldFields
28-07-11, 09:17
It's funny that according to that wiki article, Somalia had a lower homicide rate than the US in 2000. :p

As for your question, I honestly don't know what the best solution would be. But I do know that what we have right now isn't working out. The US's prison system is broken. Prisons are overcrowding and we've all heard stories about problems such as prison rape and gang violence being rampant in prisons. I read a study once that said that 25% of inmates in male prisons are raped and most don't seek help. And even after serving their time, ex-cons have a high rate of recidivism and will most likely end up back in prison within a few months.

Maybe rehabilitating criminals in a way similar to Norway would help prepare people to better function in society once they're released? I don't see that happening in the US though. People would be outraged! :p

Ikas90
28-07-11, 09:36
The way I see it, prison is more of a form of revenge rather than justice, where you lock people away just to make yourself feel better. True justice is something we can never really get right.

Although it's definitely a better option to have a prison more focused on rehabilitating criminals. I think it's an obvious cause of Norway's low crime rate. That, and there are additional factors; such as Norway being a richer country.

Amiyo
28-07-11, 09:48
I had a longer, well-written reply, but my computer decided to shut itself down in the middle of posting! :hea: So, this is a shorter version...
Do you think Norway's crime rate speaks for the effectiveness of its prison system, or could its low homicide rate be attributed more to other factors? Is there a lesson here for other Western countries (like the U.S.) to make prisons more effective at rehabilitating criminals?
I'm pretty sure both the prison system and other factors have something to do with Norway's low homicide rate. The police forces, heath care, social workers etc. might have a good level of co-operation in preventing crimes. Of course there might be more behind the low rate, but I don't know since I've never even been in Norway.

One crime psychologist once made a statement in my country about how the view on prison sentence being a punishment has changed. The punishment was suffered before (a bit clumsy translation perhaps...), nowadays convicts have 'compensated their crime to the society' once they've done their sentence. This leads to the situation where the punishments aren't serious enough and the families of crime victims take justice to their own hands and punish the criminals on their own.

Some criminals are so evil that they should be locked up for the rest of their lives. Maybe some kind of heavily guarded mental hospital would be a better place than a prison, I don't know... And criminals who aren't as evil should get rehabilitation and some serious effort should be put to helping them get on with their lives after the sentence, without crimes. This requires that the following (a quote from here (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?p=5572238#post5572238)) doesn't happen:
Before internet, people's names were forgotten as the newpaper flew to the garbage bin. Nowadays, articles are viewable forever. Let's say a paper publishes the name of a convict. After the convict has been in the jail, and is released, his/her name and the crime that was the case can be read over and over again. A marked man, forever. Of course people 'got their marks' before too, in the eyes of their communities, etc., but this is something bigger.

How can one live his life as a law-abiding citizen if he's a marked man in the eyes of others?

patriots88888
28-07-11, 10:11
I'm of the belief that prisons shouldn't be holiday camps... there's a reason why it's called punishment. That said, punishment should fit the crime and I would like to see better seperation of those who commit violent crimes (murder, rape, assault) from those whose crimes are less severe in this respect (burglary, theft, etc...). I believe lumping all of the offenders together is only adding to the problem due to the influence inmates have on one another in our overcrowded prison systems. Repeat offenders and the escalation of the severity of their crimes being the most obvious of the negative effects from this.

Lara Croft!
28-07-11, 11:53
The prison debate has so many aspects.

On the one hand, I don't believe that many people get rehabilitated. I believe that prisoners, change sometimes for the better, because they have experienced a total loss of freedom. So most of the ones that go out of jail, if they stop breaking the law, they do it, so that they will not go back to prison and not because the prison reformed them. I don't believe in people being reformed, at least not in a prison's confinement. In that sense, prison seems to be offering punishment. Even if we accept that, there is the question of "how much is enough?" . A prisoner has access to books, painting materials, crafting, sports. How is that punishment?

On the other hand, it would be cruel to take away all these nice things from the prisoners, especially those that all they did was to burgle a house or steal some money from the company they work. Not that these aren't important crimes, but to me, it's much lighter than having killed or raped. But this complex matter, now leads us to other questions "what makes a crime big?" or "who deserves the worst punishment?".

In a few words, I don't see prisons as reforming institutions, rather than places for all who break the law, so that through taking away their freedom, they'll be taught not to do it again.

Dennis's Mom
28-07-11, 12:03
Well, I'm sure Norway's low homicide rate, like Japan's, has more to do with a homogenous culture than a posh prison system.

I agree that prison is styled in the US as "punishment," however we should develop a system that punishes by taking liberty but does not further entrench a criminal into a life a crime.

I don't have any answers. I think the "war on drugs" is a very expensive failure that has exacerbated our prison system's failures.

Super Badnik
28-07-11, 12:08
No, merely shoving people into a hole for months or years is not effective as it alone clearly dose not rehabilitate criminals. Of course nobody will ever see that because the media and politicians like to demonise criminals in order to rally the sheeple.

As for the Norway shooter, he is now thought to be insane and probably is and so no prison system was ever going to stop him and prison clearly isn't going to sort him out.

TRfan23
28-07-11, 14:08
I don't think they work very well at all imo, especially since all the prisoners are cramped together so they can exchange bad ideas etc...

If anything, their only use is to prevent the criminal from committing the crime again during his/her stay.
So really it's just protecting the victim and the criminal, not rehabilitating them.

Catapharact
28-07-11, 15:18
Do you think Norway's crime rate speaks for the effectiveness of its prison system, or could its low homicide rate be attributed more to other factors? Is there a lesson here for other Western countries (like the U.S.) to make prisons more effective at rehabilitating criminals?

The only lesson we need to take from Norway is the fact that wishful "rehabilitative" facilities are a joke at best. I would attribute Norway's low crime rate to low population ratios and saturation in comparison to the U.S. Also keep in mind, that these low crime rate statistics usually compare and contrast "high" end crimes rather then low key ones. Homicide rates might not be high in Norway, but armed robberies, theft, vandalism, etc. are. At the same time, counties provide crime rate statistics at their own biased viewpoints. I could very well argue that crime rates in Saudi Arabia for instance are VERY low but then again, the laws themselves are cripplingly strict by western standards; To the point where the west obviously sees it as a blatant violation of human rights.

No... Animals such as this person cannot be salvaged. They are not worth investing in to rehabilitate. I certainly wouldn't want my tax dollars being spent to rehabilitate people like him. A prison IMO should work in two ways:

1) To isolate the scum of the earth from rest of society so that society can take the time to set in motion the correct laws and procedures to safe guard the public trust and to maintain order.

2) To make these scum buckets appreciate what society offers them interms of safety and security. And you can't make them appreciate that by sending them to health spas. A prison should be less then spartan IMO.

As for total trash heaps like this guy, there is no saving him. He is a cancerous tumor that needs to be eliminated for good. Society shouldn't have to tolerate such blatant massacre with no intention other then to inflict the most amount of pain and suffering on kids and adult civilians alike.

I say we should kidnap this douchebag from Norway and send him on a one way trip to Saudi Arabia. Nothing will please me more then to see this Muslim hating Templar wannabe get his head lopped off in public by a scimitar.

Poetic justice indeed.

Encore
28-07-11, 23:30
Norway's prison system is getting a lot of media attention in the wake of the shooting massacre. The prison that the shooter may go to is unique because it is very luxurious (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8661444/Norway-killer-could-be-held-in-luxury-prison.html) compared to the typical prisons in many other first world countries. This Norwegian prison looks more like a summer camp than a penitentiary for dangerous sociopaths. Norway's crime rate stands out amongst other wealthy countries as well: it boasts a homicide rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate) of .6 per 100,000 people.

Do you think Norway's crime rate speaks for the effectiveness of its prison system, or could its low homicide rate be attributed more to other factors? Is there a lesson here for other Western countries (like the U.S.) to make prisons more effective at rehabilitating criminals?

I can't speak with certainty since I don't live in Norway and don't know it in detail, but my personal opinion is that the low crime rate in Norway is derived from the country's high standard of living and quality of life, education levels, low poverty, etc. The fact that norwegian prisons are "luxurious" in comparison to others, to me, is just a reflection of those high standards of living. If such prisons were a problem to society, surely Norway's crime rate would be rampant.

To quote Dostoievsky,

The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.

And on a sidenote, it's ridiculous to start questioning the validity of Norway's culture and society based on an isolated incident.

No country is safe from the occasional lunatic or psychopath. It's human nature at work. The best possible victory for terrorists is to make societies more oppressive because of them.

patriots88888
28-07-11, 23:43
The fact that norwegian prisons are "luxurious" in comparison to others, to me, is just a reflection of those high standards of living. If such prisons were a problem to society, surely Norway's crime rate would be rampant.

You would think. Or, maybe the wannabee thugs haven't gotten the guided tour yet. :pi:

larafan25
29-07-11, 01:33
I personally think all prisons should be made to actually sustain healthy living, at least as much as the part of the world can.

TRfan23
29-07-11, 12:38
The only lesson we need to take from Norway is the fact that wishful "rehabilitative" facilities are a joke at best. I would attribute Norway's low crime rate to low population ratios and saturation in comparison to the U.S. Also keep in mind, that these low crime rate statistics usually compare and contrast "high" end crimes rather then low key ones. Homicide rates might not be high in Norway, but armed robberies, theft, vandalism, etc. are. At the same time, counties provide crime rate statistics at their own biased viewpoints. I could very well argue that crime rates in Saudi Arabia for instance are VERY low but then again, the laws themselves are cripplingly strict by western standards; To the point where the west obviously sees it as a blatant violation of human rights.

No... Animals such as this person cannot be salvaged. They are not worth investing in to rehabilitate. I certainly wouldn't want my tax dollars being spent to rehabilitate people like him. A prison IMO should work in two ways:

1) To isolate the scum of the earth from rest of society so that society can take the time to set in motion the correct laws and procedures to safe guard the public trust and to maintain order.

2) To make these scum buckets appreciate what society offers them interms of safety and security. And you can't make them appreciate that by sending them to health spas. A prison should be less then spartan IMO.

As for total trash heaps like this guy, there is no saving him. He is a cancerous tumor that needs to be eliminated for good. Society shouldn't have to tolerate such blatant massacre with no intention other then to inflict the most amount of pain and suffering on kids and adult civilians alike.

I say we should kidnap this douchebag from Norway and send him on a one way trip to Saudi Arabia. Nothing will please me more then to see this Muslim hating Templar wannabe get his head lopped off in public by a scimitar.

Poetic justice indeed.

This just increases my demand for Capital Punishment to make a return in the UK ;)

If prisons aren't really deterring the criminal and they keep going back, why waste tax payers money on them, when you could just put them to death and be done with them. So yeh I agree with you Cat :tmb:

peeves
30-07-11, 14:59
I think prisons should serve healthy food so this way people wouldn't get sick and diseases. What they serve in prison now they serve food that if people eat they could get sick and have diseases.

the ancient
30-07-11, 18:19
I think prisons should serve healthy food so this way people wouldn't get sick and diseases. What they serve in prison now they serve food that if people eat they could get sick and have diseases.

That doesn't count her,

A few years ago a jail keeper got beat up by a prisoner because he didn't got enough mayo on his French fries :rolleyes:

I think prison in Belgium is a bit too soft.

peeves
30-07-11, 21:43
Prison may not be severe enough in belgium because they're less strict or something like that.

Admles
31-07-11, 06:23
Having been to prison myself, and having seen a lot of people who had served prison sentences many times, and also many who never come back, it's really up to the individual.

If they want to make the change in their life, then it will be effective.

Some of them, however, had nothing outside of prison. I saw a young fellow in there who was only 21 and on his fourth prison term. Why? He had no family, no support network of any kind, and little skills. In prison, he gets three meals a day, a roof over his head, tv, the government pays him a small wage each week that allows cigarettes and junk food, he gets to play organised sports and exercise.

Whereas others are so scared of their experience they never want to go back.

So it really comes down to the individual.


IMHO, really, prison is just the governments way of sending you to your room...

The Great Chi
07-08-11, 00:01
I read somewhere and I may need to be corrected, that Norway has the strictest no drink driving poicy in Europe with a very low alcohol count to get you three weeks in jail at hard labor, one year loss of license. Second offense within five years, license revoked for life.

If I remember half the driving population were given dates for the following year, to go in to do their three weeks in jail, as there were so many people caught with alcohol in their blood. :D

iamlaracroft
07-08-11, 00:43
I think the question is, can criminals be rehabilitated?

is there rehab for life-long learned, culturally instilled and accepted behavior?
can a pedophile, rapist, molester be "re-wired" to not find children, victims, etc, sexually appetizing?
can a murderer be taught, and then trusted, to never murder again?

Ward Dragon
07-08-11, 00:49
I think the question is, can criminals be rehabilitated?

is there rehab for life-long learned, culturally instilled and accepted behavior?
can a pedophile, rapist, molester be "re-wired" to not find children, victims, etc, sexually appetizing?
can a murderer be taught, and then trusted, to never murder again?

I think if someone acted rashly without thinking it through then there's a chance to rehabilitate them and train them to use different techniques to think twice before they act.

However for cases where it's a much deeper desire to do harm, like a serial killer, I don't think we currently have any way to rehabilitate someone like that (short of mutilating their brains to change who they are).

Admles
07-08-11, 08:59
I think the question is, can criminals be rehabilitated?

is there rehab for life-long learned, culturally instilled and accepted behavior?
can a pedophile, rapist, molester be "re-wired" to not find children, victims, etc, sexually appetizing?
can a murderer be taught, and then trusted, to never murder again?
In a lot of cases, no.


Specially with paedophiles and sex offenders, a lot of them don't realise what they are doing is wrong. They believe they were born that way - to be sexually attracted to children - and that's just who they are. Now I'm not saying it excuses what they are doing at all, but in their mind they have done nothing wrong. People like that should just be locked away from society, but in a separate unit from other offenders.

iamlaracroft
07-08-11, 09:52
it's a tricky subject when it comes to violent crimes, murders, etc, that are a result of drug deals gone wrong and "gang" culture. unfortunately, a lot of today's youth are raised to hate authority, that defending one's family "name" or gang, or honor or whatever, comes above all else and at whatever cost.

can crime-related rehabilitation truly reverse years of learned behavior and culturally accepted conduct? who is to blame when a young, uneducated youth senselessly murders someone from a rival gang? the parents? government? music/media?? there's a widely accepted attitude amongst certain groups of people that "you gotta do what you gotta do". Some of these youths are a product of their upbringing. They were doomed from birth. Raised in projects or bad neighborhoods, brought up by parents who are kids themselves, who just as well don't give a damn about authority, the law, or getting an education. We all know those schools in "those" bad areas of town. The teachers fear for their lives, don't have a vested interest in the success of their students, the funding is usually nonexistent so the kids learn that, really, no one cares about them.

Not excusing anyone's behavior, just thinking aloud. I personally believe there is no rehabilitation for pedophiles, rapists, molesters. And even if there were, is it really worth giving a known rapist/pedophile a "second chance" at the risk of harming yet another victim?

haven't murderers, rapists, molesters, pedophiles forfeited their rights as human beings by committing those heinous crimes?

The Great Chi
07-08-11, 10:50
QUOTEI read somewhere and I may need to be corrected, that Norway has the strictest no drink driving poicy in Europe with a very low alcohol count to get you three weeks in jail at hard labor, one year loss of license. Second offense within five years, license revoked for life.

If I remember half the driving population were given dates for the following year, to go in to do their three weeks in jail, as there were so many people caught with alcohol in their blood. :D

Was I right about this, or was it the Swedish driving poulation ?

I always mix these two similar nordic countries up :p

moodydog
07-08-11, 11:03
If prisons are the sole purpose of 'punishment', then make them as grotty as possible. However, due to the understanding and the realisation that inmates are in prison for a specified period of time, this would probably not be best for society once the inmate is set free. They make it out to be 'justice'... however once the inmate is set free, only to commit crimes again. Where is the justice in that?
Two possible scenario's... either keep inmates in prison for life (which isn't possible), or give some rehabilitation to the prisons to help them get on the right foot.

Super Badnik
07-08-11, 13:06
I think the question is, can criminals be rehabilitated?

is there rehab for life-long learned, culturally instilled and accepted behavior?
can a pedophile, rapist, molester be "re-wired" to not find children, victims, etc, sexually appetizing?
can a murderer be taught, and then trusted, to never murder again?Thats all very well but these cases are extreme ones.

Peadophiles, unfortunatley, can't be changed as far as not finding children attractive because thats their sexuality, obviously though we shouldn't give up on them. They somehow need to find a way to not act upon their desires.

I'm not quite sure I know what is meant by "life-long learned, culturally instilled and accepted behavior" but I assume its refering to those who live a life of crime such as gangs, drug dealers etc. Its no coincidence that these kind of criminals are of less privileged backgrounds, people wouldn't have to lead these lifestyles if they had a home and a decent income.

As for murderers, the vast majority could be trusted not to kill again as most kill for a specific reason. Its serial killers that you need to keep and eye on and the majority of them are more insane than criminal.

moodydog
07-08-11, 13:45
If there was such thing as a 'happy pill' which makes people harmless, but fully functioning, and probably makes them a bit... slow/ dumb, would you encourage its use. Just say you gave the inmate the choice between this pill and prison. Well after a certain amount of time in prison anyway. And just say these pills had to be taken regularly too...

Super Badnik
07-08-11, 15:04
If there was such thing as a 'happy pill' which makes people harmless, but fully functioning, and probably makes them a bit... slow/ dumb, would you encourage its use. Just say you gave the inmate the choice between this pill and prison. Well after a certain amount of time in prison anyway. And just say these pills had to be taken regularly too...I don't see where this is going. But some people with mental health problems do take medication to improve their behaviour.

Ward Dragon
07-08-11, 17:13
And just say these pills had to be taken regularly too...

But how would you even monitor something like that? In a lot of cases, especially if mental illness is involved, people will try to find ways to avoid taking the pills because they think the pills are being used to control them (which actually might be an accurate assessment of the situation depending on the circumstances).

Plus if the pill has bad side effects then people might stop using it thinking that they are all better now so no need to keep dealing with the side effects. And then of course everything goes back to how it was before once they stop receiving medication.

peeves
07-08-11, 17:57
I think people that have mental problems that commit a crime don't belong in prison. They belong in the mental ward. And need rehab perhaps.

Super Badnik
07-08-11, 18:03
I think people that have mental problems that commit a crime don't belong in prison. They belong in the mental ward. And need rehab perhaps.Well yeah, I would have thought most would agree on that.

Ward Dragon
07-08-11, 18:04
I think people that have mental problems that commit a crime don't belong in prison. They belong in the mental ward. And need rehab perhaps.

I'm fine with that as long as security measures are in place to prevent them from hurting anyone else. Even if a murderer is mentally ill, that doesn't make the victims any less dead so I think murderers should be kept in situations where they cannot hurt anyone else (whether that be a prison or a mental hospital or a rehab center or whatever). As long as they are still a risk, they shouldn't be free to keep killing people.

Dennis's Mom
07-08-11, 19:32
Well, there's really two types of social detention: prison, which is view as punishment by revoking freedom and (for want of a better term) insane asylums for people who are mentally ill and pose a threat due to illness.

I have no problem with either concept, but I don't think we do a very good job of either one.

I just saw this and it's somewhat germaine to the discussion of the effectiveness of prison. It's a new documentary called "The Interrupters." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wS5Hjhy1RhM) Here's a review (http://www.salon.com/entertainment/movies/andrew_ohehir/2011/07/28/pick_of_the_week_the_interrupters/index.html). Money quote from the review: Sociologists have known for decades that people who commit crimes or engage in antisocial behavior generally share the values of the larger society, and often don't approve of their own conduct. People raised in a culture of cyclical violence may believe that it's necessary to survival or to honor because it's the only model they've ever seen. . . .

Which is where our prison system often fail. They succeed in the "punishment" part, but if these criminals commit crime even though they know it's wrong, but it's the only way they know, it seems part of a prison's mission should be to show another way.

Catracoth
08-08-11, 20:29
Well in regard to the thread title and not the text of the opening post, I do believe prison is indeed effective, but the duration of the effectiveness is yet to be seen. You may have a juvenile lawbreaker; send him or her to prison to serve their sentence and pay their debt to society. Most likely when they're released, they won't do it again. Take a common criminal instead. If their life is devoted to crime, they're just going to continuously break the law.

Then you have the worst scenario of psychological effectiveness of prison; a person who's so used to prison that when they're released into the outside world, it's so different and frightening to them, they'd rather go back in prison. They're most likely going to do what they can to go back.

Admles
08-08-11, 20:51
Well in regard to the thread title and not the text of the opening post, I do believe prison is indeed effective, but the duration of the effectiveness is yet to be seen. You may have a juvenile lawbreaker; send him or her to prison to serve their sentence and pay their debt to society. Most likely when they're released, they won't do it again. Take a common criminal instead. If their life is devoted to crime, they're just going to continuously break the law.

Then you have the worst scenario of psychological effectiveness of prison; a person who's so used to prison that when they're released into the outside world, it's so different and frightening to them, they'd rather go back in prison. They're most likely going to do what they can to go back.

I would have to disagree with "most likely", because in my time, I saw guys as young as 19 who were in on their third or fourth time inside :/

Catracoth
08-08-11, 20:52
I would have to disagree with "most likely", because in my time, I saw guys as young as 19 who were in on their third or fourth time inside :/

Have a look at the sentence after the one you bolded. :p

Admles
08-08-11, 20:59
Yes but are they really common criminals? Or do they have nothing better outside?

I always wondered....

Catracoth
08-08-11, 22:39
Hmm...a fair point indeed, and now you've got me wondering. :p

Admles
08-08-11, 22:49
One young guy, Mick, was only 21, was on his 4th stint.... I found out he had no family or friends on the outside - nothing. In prison, he gets 3 meals a day, a roof over his head, government allowance, a prison job, TV, all his laundry is done for him......

To him, it looks like a better place to be

Blackmoor
09-08-11, 17:35
Do you think Norway's crime rate speaks for the effectiveness of its prison system, or could its low homicide rate be attributed more to other factors? Is there a lesson here for other Western countries (like the U.S.) to make prisons more effective at rehabilitating criminals?Cold weather is believed to decrease crime rates. Also social prosperity that is shared more equitably. Perhaps these are factors also.

Edit: I'm sure I remember some philosophical debate on crime and punishment that states that different prison regimes are quite a low casual factor for crime rates in a country. I can't remember where though.

sierra xb
10-08-11, 23:10
I honetly do not believe that prison is very effective, unless they have a very convincing reason for the prisoners to never want to return to one. I agree with many of the statements about US prisons...they are way to easy on the convicts. They have too many luxuries. Prison life is supposed to be difficult and as unpleasant as possible, otherwise the prisoners may (and often do) see it as easy welfare.

My favorate example of a well-run prison is the one in Maricopa County, Arizona, run by Sherriff Joe Arpaio. I won't go into all of the details, but look him up on wikipedia and see how he runs his prison...I think if every prison was run that way, we'd have alot less repeat offenders.

On another note, the area of California where I live has a very low crime rate for one specific reason...everyone is armed. :)

Admles
11-08-11, 12:13
Who said prison life is supposed to be as difficult and unpleasant as possible?

The punishment is the removal of your liberty and from society, not to be treated like a dog on the inside.

Dennis's Mom
13-08-11, 14:37
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/judge-sentences-indiana-teen-to-35-years-in-prison-for-shooting-classmate-at-school/2011/08/12/gIQAI8AfBJ_story.html

I'm bumping this. I saw this in the paper this morning.

16 year old kid. Attempted murder. 30 years. Be sure to read the article; there are some mitigating factors.

While I agree the kid deserves punishment, I don't have any confidence he'll come out on the end of this "better equipped" to deal with society.

Ward Dragon
13-08-11, 15:56
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/judge-sentences-indiana-teen-to-35-years-in-prison-for-shooting-classmate-at-school/2011/08/12/gIQAI8AfBJ_story.html

I'm bumping this. I saw this in the paper this morning.

16 year old kid. Attempted murder. 30 years. Be sure to read the article; there are some mitigating factors.

While I agree the kid deserves punishment, I don't have any confidence he'll come out on the end of this "better equipped" to deal with society.

I admit I don't know enough details to form a valid opinion of that story but I'm leaning towards saying that the sentence is too harsh. Since the shooting had a specific target (not indiscriminately shooting everyone in sight) I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the victim was bullying the shooter for a long time and nobody did anything to help the shooter.

He even apparently threatened to blow up the school prior to the shooting and was suspended but the article doesn't mention any counseling or anything of the sort. So even though the shooting was premeditated I do definitely think it's possible that he was under a lot of emotional pressure and snapped. I completely disagree with the prosecutor in that regard.

Alpharaider47
15-08-11, 22:25
Who said prison life is supposed to be as difficult and unpleasant as possible?

The punishment is the removal of your liberty and from society, not to be treated like a dog on the inside.

Which is kind of a shame, because for those that don't like society... well, living like kings in their own little cell isn't such a bad thing. Kinda counteracts that whole deterrent aspect...

I mean, I'm all for humanity for criminals, up until those criminals sacrifice said humanity to commit atrocities. Example- pirates and terrorists. A few bullets is far cheaper than a series of court proceedings. And it stimulates the economy :p

Admles
18-08-11, 11:20
Trust me, no matter how many creature comforts you have in your cell, no matter how much "power" you have in your unit, prison is still prison, and no amount of luxury inside can make up for that.

I speak from personal experience.

Prison needs to focus more on rehabiliation - prisoners get so BORED inside, why not put that idle time to good use?