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lance6439
09-08-11, 14:25
[Mod edit: Link to an external petition collecting e-mail addresses removed. Not allowed on TRF.]

it needs 100,000 names to get into the house of commons!
i’m never ususally ones for petitions but i refuse to work for 48 hours a week for then my money to go to these disgusting people who think this is all okay, so please sign this xxx

Sadly you gotta be a UK resident :(
You must be a UK citizen or normally live in the UK to create or sign e-petitions

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 14:28
Oh Jesus, this shows just how ignorant people are. They clearly have no understanding of what is actually happening.

Weemanply109
09-08-11, 14:30
Thanks Lance for creating this thread :hug:

Oh Jesus, this shows just how ignorant people are. They clearly have no understanding of what is actually happening.

What? Elaborate. :p

Is there any age limits on this?

x2crazyidiot
09-08-11, 14:32
Signed. It can't hurt; if they're arrested and aren't on benefits, fine. If they are, then they deserve to have such privileges taken away.

Oh Jesus, this shows just how ignorant people are. They clearly have no understanding of what is actually happening.

So you do?

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 14:34
What? Elaborate. :pThey are angry because of how crap their existence is. Taking away people's benefits, most likely their only income, will make their lives next to not worth anything, prison will be a nice option. You think things are bad now.

Weemanply109
09-08-11, 14:35
Not an acceptable excuse, look at what they have caused, I could'nt give a **** about their lives. Mine isn't perfect and I am not hitting the streets and hurting people and causing damage to property. :rolleyes:

What do they benefit from doing this? Their lives won't suddenly get better. People are just doing this cause they are retarded.

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 14:36
Not an acceptable excuse, look at what they have caused, I could'nt give a **** about their lives. Mine isn't perfect and I am not hitting the streets and hurting people and causing damage to property. :rolleyes:I doubt you live in slums like most of these rioters. You spend a lifetime living like they are forced to and then judge.

They aren't doing it for any benefit. Its a show of pure rage.

x2crazyidiot
09-08-11, 14:37
So you're applying a "don't scold a naughty child because it's upset" principle? How will that help in the slightest? If their 'existence is crap', how does terrorising their community to "get back at those rich Conservatives" make it any better?
They've broken the law, they need to be punished. 'Rich' people are the ones who are funding their benefits, why should they not have the right to take them away?

lance6439
09-08-11, 14:38
Oh Jesus, this shows just how ignorant people are. They clearly have no understanding of what is actually happening.

:confused:

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 14:39
So you're applying a "don't scold a naughty child because it's upset" principle? How will that help in the slightest? If their 'existence is crap', how does terrorising their community to "get back at those rich Conservatives" make it any better?Already explained. I think this sums it up.

"Living with the daily ugliness of slum life, educational castration and exploitation, some ghetto dwellers now and then strike out in spasms of violence and self-defeating riots. A riot is at the bottom the language of the unheard. It is the desperate, suicidal cry of one who is so fed up with the powerlessness of his... cave existence that he asserts he would rather be dead than ignored." - Martin Luther King Jr.

Weemanply109
09-08-11, 14:39
I doubt you live in slums like most of these rioters. You spend a lifetime living like they are forced to and then judge.

They aren't doing it for any benefit. Its a show of pure rage.

I doubt most of them live in slums.. Seriously.

Double standards much?

digitizedboy
09-08-11, 14:39
I doubt you live in slums like most of these rioters. You spend a lifetime living like they are forced to and then judge.

They aren't doing it for any benefit. Its a show of pure rage.

They're hardly shanty towns like in Brasil are they.

Weemanply109
09-08-11, 14:40
They're hardly shanty towns like in Brasil are they.

Exactly. :vlol: People are in worse situations that these retards. :rolleyes:

x2crazyidiot
09-08-11, 14:40
Already explained. I think this sums it up.

"Living with the daily ugliness of slum life, educational castration and exploitation, some ghetto dwellers now and then strike out in spasms of violence and self-defeating riots. A riot is at the bottom the language of the unheard. It is the desperate, suicidal cry of one who is so fed up with the powerlessness of his... cave existence that he asserts he would rather be dead than ignored." - Martin Luther King Jr.

Well done, you can quote Martin Luther King Jr. three times on this forum. So far the only thing you have proven is that you probably study Sociology at school.

These people aren't poor citizens who have fallen victim to an oppressive totalitarian regime, they're thugs. Nothing more, nothing less.

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 14:42
Ok fine, riots happen because those black hooded scroungers just hate decency. Is that what you wanted to hear?

Oh and at the person above. MLK lived in the US, not a "Totalitarian Regime" and I never studied sociology.

Weemanply109
09-08-11, 14:43
These people aren't poor citizens who have fallen victim to an oppressive totalitarian regime, they're thugs. Nothing more, nothing less.

:tmb:

lance6439
09-08-11, 14:48
i wish i can sign.

Weemanply109
09-08-11, 14:49
i wish i can sign.

Me too :p We need more poeple, its near 10k. :L

x2crazyidiot
09-08-11, 14:50
To end this, I shall quote two girls recorded in an interview by the BBC:
"It was fun though"
"Course it is"
"Yeah, free alcohol!"
"It's the government's fault"
"Yeah"
"The Conservatives!"
"Yeah or whatever, I dunno"
"It's about showing the police we can do what we want"
"Yeah, that's what it is; showing the police we can do what we want, and now we have"
"It's the rich people"
"Yeah it's the rich people and the people with the businesses and that's why all of this is happening because of the rich people. So we're just showing the rich people we can do what we want"

... and we're the ignorant ones?
Yeah, they really sound like oppressed victims and not Grade A thugs, don't they? (they didn't even know what the Conservatives were, let alone what they do)

xXhayleyroxXx
09-08-11, 14:51
I signed.

Weemanply109
09-08-11, 14:52
To end this, I shall quote two girls recorded in an interview by the BBC:
"It was fun though"
"Course it is"
"Yeah, free alcohol!"
"It's the government's fault"
"Yeah"
"The Conservatives!"
"Yeah or whatever, I dunno"
"It's about showing the police we can do what we want"
"Yeah, that's what it is; showing the police we can do what we want, and now we have"
"It's the rich people"
"Yeah it's the rich people and the people with the businesses and that's why all of this is happening because of the rich people. So we're just showing the rich people we can do what we want"?

That proves it, they don't live in the slums... :vlol:

We all knew this, they are just dumb bitches looking for trouble.

"The Conservatives!"
"Yeah or whatever, I dunno" - They don't even know who the **** they are talking about.. :rolleyes:

They say at first its about the government, then its about the police, then its about rich people... ?

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 14:56
Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?

"Yes," said the young man. "You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?"

The TV reporter from Britain's ITV had no response. So the young man pressed his advantage. "Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you."Source (http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/08/07/7292281-the-sad-truth-behind-london-riot)

History will never condome what these people have done, but it will vindicate them.

Weemanply109
09-08-11, 14:58
Source (http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/08/07/7292281-the-sad-truth-behind-london-riot)

History will never condome what these people have done, but it will vindicate them.

That has changed my mind a bit, but a LOT of people are just taking part in this for the free stuff and for the trouble.

Example, the two cows in that interview posted above ;)

I found an interesting comment

So they live in poverty, they don't have jobs, etc and they go out and ruin the property of innocent people and those who might hire them and they steal from them. Businesses that might have helped the neighborhood or the people themselves will not want to do business there. During the L.A. riots they burned down a bank that was the first in the area to lend to minorities as well as several minority owned businesses.

I've never understood the logic here, in the USA or anywhere else on this.

x2crazyidiot
09-08-11, 14:59
Okay, it's got them heard? What's their message again? Oh, yeah, they don't have one. Except maybe "death to the rich and police and government and people who own businesses and justice for Mark Duggan who was a gang member and crack cocaine dealer and shot at the police first but is still blatantly a martyr (which isn't even part of the riot anyway, it was the catalyst, an excuse).

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 15:02
That has changed my mind a bit, but a LOT of people are just taking part in this for the free stuff and for the trouble.

Example, the two cows in that interview posted above ;)

I found an interesting commentPeople like them maybe acting immature, but their actions are equally suicidal (assuming they weren't just lying). And people aren't born suicidal.

Kelly Craftman
09-08-11, 15:08
I doubt you live in slums like most of these rioters. You spend a lifetime living like they are forced to and then judge.

They aren't doing it for any benefit. Its a show of pure rage.

Most of them have a better house than me. All paid for by taxes.

Catapharact
09-08-11, 15:21
People like them maybe acting immature, but their actions are equally suicidal (assuming they weren't just lying). And people aren't born suicidal.

Well then, I say the London police should them a favour and forego any given rights to fair trial and go straight to convicting their ungrateful butts (since they are being suicidal and all.) After that, they all can be deported since they think that U.K. social security laws aren't beneficial enough for them. I am sure a few days stay in Somalia will change their minds about their "situation" in U.K.

So... Do majority of you think that police go too far when they take lethal action against scumbags? Its quite clear with situations such as these that they usually don't go far enough.

Weemanply109
09-08-11, 15:23
Most of them have a better house than me. All paid for by taxes.

:tmb: Exactly.

peeves
09-08-11, 15:28
Well sadly I'm not from the UK so i can't sign that petition. :( These people should learn better.

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 15:33
Most of them have a better house than me. All paid for by taxes.Right, you know that do you?

Well then, I say the London police should them a favour and forego any given rights to fair trial and go straight to convicting their ungrateful butts (since they are being suicidal and all.)Lucky for them Britain isn't a fascist totalitarian regime I guess.

Kelly Craftman
09-08-11, 15:40
Right, you know that do you?


...Yeah that's why I said it.
But of course im wrong because you all it all about benefits.

Spong
09-08-11, 15:40
Right, you know that do you?

It's certainly more on the money than your claims that all the rioters live in slums. Stop trying to justify all this. If you're pro-rioting, fine, go post on Facebook and get yourself arrested.

Weemanply109
09-08-11, 15:41
Rioters do not live in slums. END OF. Seriously :vlol:

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 15:43
...Yeah that's why I said it.
But of course im wrong because you all it all about benefits.Oh you do? As for the rest of the jibberish, barely understood a word of it.

It's certainly more on the money than your claims that all the rioters live in slums. Stop trying to justify all this. If you're pro-rioting, fine, go post on Facebook and get yourself arrested.So just because I don't see the world in mindless, black and white, right-wing terms I'm "pro-riot".

robbie_rawr
09-08-11, 15:44
I signed it. :D

Kelly Craftman
09-08-11, 15:45
Oh you do? As for the rest of the jibberish, barely understood a word of it.


Its what getting up at 5 to go to work does. I never said I did nor did I imply it on the other hand, you did.

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 15:46
Its what getting up at 5 to go to work does. I never said I did nor did I imply it on the other hand, you did.Well I'm not on benefits if thats what your trying to suggest. I'm still currently in education.

Catapharact
09-08-11, 15:47
Lucky for them Britain isn't a fascist totalitarian regime I guess.

Yeah... How nice... How nice that so many small businesses were set ablaze and looted. How nice that all that damage to public infrastructure caused by these worthless pits of humanity will have to be covered by taxpayers (including the families of these ****wits.) How nice that they get to have a right to a fair trial all on the expense of the government that they "hate" so much.

Then again, I can't expect leftists to understand logic. I guess its a genetic deficiency in leftists ;).

Kelly Craftman
09-08-11, 15:47
Well I'm not on benefits if thats what your trying to suggest. I'm still currently in education.

I wasn't implying anything :p I was just saying I got up early for work :p.
Im still in education as well.

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 15:52
Yeah... How nice... How nice that so many small businesses were set ablaze and looted. How nice that all that damage to public infrastructure caused by these worthless pits of humanity will have to be covered by taxpayers (including the families of these f***wits.) How nice that they get to have a right to a fair trial all on the expense of the government that they "hate" so much.

Then again, I can't expect leftists to understand logic. I guess its a genetic deficiency in leftists ;).If people like you ran the world, riots would be a fact of life. ;)

viper456
09-08-11, 15:52
For every action, there is a consequence. Not really sure how destroying shops to get back at the rich really works... I mean you don't see many millionaires (oh except the ones in my avatar ... ha) working as a sales assistant to be honest. Idiots.

toxicraider
09-08-11, 15:55
For every action, there is a consequence. Not really sure how destroying shops to get back at the rich really works... I mean you don't see many millionaires working as a sales assistant to be honest. Idiots.

It's ridiculous; the ones that will be affected most will be the poorest business owners that have struggled to keep their business afloat! Now they've had everything stolen from them, or destroyed. I bet these people have attacked people that earned their living through hard work, still worship their millionaire celebrities though.
Edit; There was a woman interviewed that was absolutely livid after she arrived to find her shop ransacked, I'm trying to find it online.

TRfan23
09-08-11, 15:57
Request Deletion.

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 15:59
If people like you ran the world, people would have the IQ of Justin Bieber ;)

I'm sorry but how left wing you can get is beyond me...I don't believe in running the world, but I assure you, I believe education is important. ;)

TRfan23
09-08-11, 16:05
Request Deletion.

Catapharact
09-08-11, 16:06
If people like you ran the world, riots would be a fact of life. ;)

If people like me ran the world, there would be no riots ;). See, I don't believe in Tear gases or rubber bullets; I believe in APCs and Apache Gunships. Riot breaks out? Spray live ammo near the feet of the scumbags. I am sure they will think twice about leaving their houses after that.

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 16:07
Of which these scum's don't have because they don't want it!

They're trashing up the place because they're a bunch of retarded twats and you feel sorry for them O_o.

My dad works for the police and he had to work overtime today because of this."Retarded twats" are made, not born.

If people like me ran the world, there would be no riots ;). See, I don't believe in Tear gases or rubber bullets; I believe in APCs and Apache Gunships. Riot breaks out? Spray live ammo near the feet of the scumbags. I am sure they will think twice about leaving their houses after that.Fear is never a long term solution to discontent.

Catapharact
09-08-11, 16:10
Fear is never a long term solution to discontent.

But it guarantees order and civility so that things can be discussed and problems can be solved with "civilized" discussions. If you can't do that, get ready to put on an Orange Jumpsuit.

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 16:13
But it guarantees order and civility so that things can be discussed and problems can be solved with "civilized" discussions. If you can't do that, get ready to put on an Orange Jumpsuit.If problems were being solved in a "civilized" manner in the first place this wouldn't happen. The trouble with this situation, the one your describing, the advantage lies with the man with the gun.

Catapharact
09-08-11, 16:17
If problems were being solved in a "civilized" manner in the first place this wouldn't happen. The trouble with this situation, the one your describing, the advantage lies with the man with the gun.

Read my signature ;).

"Si vis pacem para bellum" pretty much applies to this situation here. As I see it, U.K's social security system is way too lax with its applicants as it is. If these scum buckets can't seem to appreciate it, then I am all for relocating them to a place which will put things in perspective for them QUITE clearly. Like I said before, Somalia is a good change of venue for them.

Danni
09-08-11, 16:24
Signed!

Forwen
09-08-11, 16:26
Signed.

Does business insurance cover riot damage for those shop owners? Just curious.

Another Lara
09-08-11, 16:31
Signed, happily!

Reggie
09-08-11, 16:39
I think there needs to be a wide-spread blanket reassessment of all social security that includes stipulations of responsibilities and upholding the law that are as certain as the rights and entitlements that people currently have. This petition is a short-sighted solution to a problem of dangerously skewed social norms, values and priorities and action to be taken should confront a solution which goes far deeper than a culture of laziness and entitlement. Does that mean a rule of fear to keep people in line? No. History shows that's just an easy way to metaphorically hold down a tight lid on a society about to boil over and when that happens, we have uprisings and more riots.

For those who are doing this for the sake of it - which is most of them at this stage, punishment is a necessity. For those who originally took part out disillusionment and frustration with their prospects in life, they need to be shown there is a way forward. Because if the message going out is that even if you graduate from Uni, you're still lucky to get a job at the local supermarket, then again, that's a sign of some serious problems for the youth of the country. This is no excuse for what has happened but it is a push factor that cannot be ignored.

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 16:55
Read my signature ;).

"Si vis pacem para bellum" pretty much applies to this situation here. As I see it, U.K's social security system is way too lax with its applicants as it is. If these scum buckets can't seem to appreciate it, then I am all for relocating them to a place which will put things in perspective for them QUITE clearly. Like I said before, Somalia is a good change of venue for them.I don't know how much you know about the UK, but unemployment isn't merely a choice, its a fact of life at the moment and always has been for the areas where the rioting started. As in there are no jobs and if a life on benefits is something that should be appreciated then its no surprise young people are thinking they may as well go out and riot their lives away. And Somalia, thats terrible, if the "worse **** happens" excuse is valid then almost anything and any state of living could be justified.

Catapharact
09-08-11, 17:10
I don't know how much you know about the UK, but unemployment isn't merely a choice, its a fact of life at the moment and always has been for the areas where the rioting started. appreciated then its no surprise young people are thinking they may as well go out and riot their lives away.

B.S. (Facts say otherwise.)

As it stands, the current U.K. unemployment rate is 7.7%. The unacceptable cutoff marker for unemployment rate usually hovers around 11%. The fact that the government gave in so much stimulus input in the economy to keep it stable; (ESPECIALLY in hard hit areas like the slums) should be enough a reason to be grateful. The 7.7% unemployment rate is usually known as a "transitional" phase; Where jobs are shifting towards sectors that are in high demand.

If you want a job in this case, get re-trained and re-qualified.

And Somalia, thats terrible, if the "worse **** happens" excuse is valid then almost anything and any state of living could be justified.

Oh but it should put things in perspective VERY well for those who think they can get away with breaking laws and causing damage to public infrastructure. This soft-handed approach in dealing with such situations is exactly the reason why riots seem to be going out of control these days.

Reggie
09-08-11, 17:19
A more relevent statistic:

The UK unemployment rate is 7.9%, but for 16 to 24-year-olds it is 20.3%.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12223226

This age group and their level of unemployment is crucial in the debate at hand. As you can see, the percentage is well above 'unacceptable' for young people.

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 17:21
B.S. (Facts say otherwise.)

As it stands, the current U.K. unemployment rate is 7.7%. The unacceptable cutoff marker for unemployment rate usually hovers around 11%. The fact that the government gave in so much stimulus input in the economy to keep it stable; (ESPECIALLY in hard hit areas like the slums) should be enough a reason to be grateful. The 7.7% unemployment rate is usually known as a "transitional" phase; Where jobs are shifting towards sectors that are in high demand.

If you want a job in this case, get re-trained and re-qualified.Really? Well lets move to swilly, with all those kids being lazy and just not taking all those jobs we should be able thrive out there.

Oh but it should put things in perspective VERY well for those who think they can get away with breaking laws and causing damage to public infrastructure. This soft-handed approach in dealing with such situations is exactly the reason why riots seem to be going out of control these days.You really believe these riots were incited by "soft-handed" policing? In that case maybe you should be advising the, obviously soft-handed, Gaddaffi regime in Libya.

In all seriousness if these rioters cared about punishment it wouldn't have happened. Its the opposite, these people don't care for the state of their own lives.

Catapharact
09-08-11, 17:24
A more relevent statistic:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12223226

This age group and their level of unemployment is crucial in the debate at hand. As you can see, the percentage is well above 'unacceptable' for young people.

It is to be expected. Most of these youth at this moment do not have the required experience to gain a position at "high end" jobs right off the bat. So yes, its quite relevant that most people in this particular demographic will have to go through either temp positions, internships, or apprenticeship positions (keeping in mind that they ACTUALLY did finish highschool and aren't drop offs) to get the particular job they want.

It ain't easy... But being in jail is a lot harder and if you think you have a hard time finding a job right now... I hope they know that their chances are going to be next to nil with a criminal record.

Reggie
09-08-11, 17:35
There's always volunteering to build up your CV and life experience which train you up to work in shops and other services that can take you into getting a job. So I can't argue with that but the unemployment figure is still important because it is in conjunction with a culture of helplessness and entitlement where motivation to get through College (high school) and do things like volunteering is non-existent. The more competitive its gotten, the more social problems have been exacerbated.

At this stage, we need consequences that are not just immediate but long lasting. That requires some effort but its necessary. A laissez-faire approach would be unjust.

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 17:53
It is to be expected. Most of these youth at this moment do not have the required experience to gain a position at "high end" jobs right off the bat. So yes, its quite relevant that most people in this particular demographic will have to go through either temp positions, internships, or apprenticeship positions (keeping in mind that they ACTUALLY did finish highschool and aren't drop offs) to get the particular job they want.

It ain't easy... But being in jail is a lot harder and if you think you have a hard time finding a job right now... I hope they know that their chances are going to be next to nil with a criminal record.I actually finished school a while ago and most students do look for the low level jobs that you are describing. But it isn't clear cut, theres competition, your lucky to get one, I haven't been able to get a job or an apprenticeship and I've been applying everwhere possible and I don't even live in one of these areas, instead I'm probably going to college which is ok but education can't last forever and in these poor areas kids don't always have the advantage of being able to get on a college or uni course. Volunteer work is great, thats unless you need to put food on the table.

Forwen
09-08-11, 18:29
I actually finished school a while ago and most students do look for the low level jobs that you are describing. But it isn't clear cut, theres competition, your lucky to get one, I haven't been able to get a job or an apprenticeship and I've been applying everwhere possible and I don't even live in one of these areas, instead I'm probably going to college which is ok but education can't last forever and in these poor areas kids don't always have the advantage of being able to get on a college or uni course. Volunteer work is great, thats unless you need to put food on the table.

Why not take work, temporary or not, in another part of the country, or abroad? I've never truly understood why this option is always left out of the issue of youth unemployment - young school leavers are easily the most mobile part of the demographic. Those 'bad areas' are a nice term for a ghetto, and working in a different place altogether would help them build up a contact network completely disconnected from whatever bad crowd they were forced to stick with back home.

jaywalker
09-08-11, 18:32
The whole point of the petition truly stands. IF the people who have been taken part in these looting and other criminality are found to be ON benefits then i truly believe they should be re-assessed.. if they willing to risk it all for the sake of a ****ing tv then they can lose a lot more as a thank you! i have paid my taxes since the day i started work back in 1994, and i will fight for my right to have my taxes paid to those who deserve it (yes i do believe that a welfare state IS needed to help those who genuinely need help - but looters etc dont deserve my money!)

interstellardave
09-08-11, 18:41
This is a complicated issue that all western societies are dealing with to some degree. Few wish to condone rioting and violence, nor do I, but there's truth to the view that politicians, corporations, banks, etc., have created a situation where our economies are in shambles--or teetering on the brink.

The very poor probably don't know who exactly to blame... but they are right in knowing that something is deeply wrong and they're beneath everyone in the worst shape of all. That's got to be a tremendously stressful and anger-inducing state of existence.

And there's undeniable truth to the fact that peaceful demonstrations rarely lead to any kind of change, so who's fault is that?

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 18:44
Why not take work, temporary or not, in another part of the country, or abroad? I've never truly understood why this option is always left out of the issue of youth unemployment - young school leavers are easily the most mobile part of the demographic. Those 'bad areas' are a nice term for a ghetto, and working in a different place altogether would help them build up a contact network completely disconnected from whatever bad crowd they were forced to stick with back home.Well, if you'd like to fund my move and rent and find me a nice place to live, please do so. :p

This is a complicated issue that all western societies are dealing with to some degree. Few wish to condone rioting and violence, nor do I, but there's truth to the view that politicians, corporations, banks, etc., have created a situation where our economies are in shambles--or teetering on the brink.

The very poor probably don't know who exactly to blame... but they are right in knowing that something is deeply wrong and they're beneath everyone in the worst shape of all. That's got to be a tremendously stressful and anger-inducing state of existence.

And there's undeniable truth to the fact that peaceful demonstrations rarely lead to any kind of change, so who's fault is that?Thats unusually perceptive for this thread. Unfortunatley most people, right now, are more interested in "these people are doing these bad things" rather than the important yet neglected "why?".

jaywalker
09-08-11, 18:53
Well, if you'd like to fund my move and rent and find me a nice place to live, please do so. :p

Thats unusually perceptive for this thread. Unfortunatley most people, right now, are more interested in "these people are doing these bad things" rather than the important yet neglected "why?".

of course we are interested in the people doing bad things right now.. its called live news.. the reasons behind it are deep and not going to be solved overnight, also there is without doubt a very group of these people who are doing this `just because they can`.. u cannot deny that..

Forwen
09-08-11, 18:56
Well, if you'd like to fund my move and rent and find me a nice place to live, please do so. :p

Not directing this post at you specifically...

There are jobs that offer live-in, and if there is none some employers help you find accommodation nearby or provide it for you. The costs are knocked off whatever you're earning, but they're pretty much always less than half of the whole wage; and you get experience and/or training that should help you find a job closer to home in the future. Your family could help you out financially as well - believe it or not, a child leaving at home is a large expense and when he or she moves out part of this cost can be simply transferred to help him or her out at the new place.

There are jobs out there, but a job is a job, not entertainment, and you might have to lower your expectations from life in order to get where you want in the end.



Thats unusually perceptive for this thread. Unfortunatley most people, right now, are more interested in "these people are doing these bad things" rather than the important yet neglected "why?".

One thing that annoys me about the 'other' side of the argument in this situation is the assumption that those who condemn it do it because they have no understanding of the possible causes. It's fully possible to understand the reasons of a criminal and still condemn their criminality.

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 18:59
of course we are interested in the people doing bad things right now.. its called live news.. the reasons behind it are deep and not going to be solved overnight, also there is without doubt a very group of these people who are doing this `just because they can`.. u cannot deny that..I can't deny that. But the reason most of them "can" do these things, is because they have nothing of worth to lose.

One thing that annoys me about the 'other' side of the argument in this situation is the assumption that those who condemn it do it because they have no understanding of the possible causes. It's fully possible to understand the reasons of a criminal and still condemn their criminality.What annoys me are the people who sit back and watch this country get bastard-ised by banks, corps and austere policies and then cry when theres a riot.

interstellardave
09-08-11, 19:02
Everyone should pay attention to the plight of the poorest citizens of their respective nations. I'm assuming most of us on this forum are fairly well off... at least getting by... but, the way things are going, we're going to be tomorrows' poor. And the rich get richer... I don't care if anyone disputes that; it's clearly evident to me that more and more wealth is being consolidated into fewer and fewer hands.

Forwen
09-08-11, 19:12
What annoys me are the people who sit back and watch this country get bastard-ised by banks, corps and austere policies and then cry when theres a riot.

This is a pretty strenuous connection. Pretty much the same as blaming the riots on the Left's open door policies on immigration :shrug:

trXD
09-08-11, 19:22
Two wrongs don't make a right, this would solve nothing.

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 19:26
This is a pretty strenuous connection. Pretty much the same as blaming the riots on the Left's open door policies on immigration :shrug:Despite the poison the far-right have been dripping in peoples' ears its not immgrints fault that the gap between rich and poor has widened, that the world economy went belly up or even the lack of prosperity.

jaywalker
09-08-11, 19:35
i havent heard anything about it being immigrants faults.. they even reported on the BNP's response to the looting, and they didnt make any reference, and i thought it would have been a guarantee they would take advantage if they could.

sometimes i think people feel they HAVE to have an answer as to why, but sometimes the answer simply is `because`.. there will be people who feel they have nothing to lose, but that in no way gives them the right to do what they like to `correct` it, not that i see anything they've done as being even a mini step as to correcting things..

Forwen
09-08-11, 19:36
Despite the poison the far-right have been dripping in peoples' ears its not immgrints fault that the gap between rich and poor has widened, that the world economy went belly up or even the lack of prosperity.

And the reason for these riots is not as short-term as the recent economic downturn; poverty and destitution was present in those areas years before and how you got banks linked to the riots I have no idea.

I was trying to demonstrate how abstract and spurious the link you'd drawn was by providing another one, but maybe I wasn't too clear.

moodydog
09-08-11, 19:40
Oh Jesus, this shows just how ignorant people are. They clearly have no understanding of what is actually happening.

I simply cannot understand this...

These people deserve to be disciplined accordingly. If they don't, what sort of message is it bringing across? That they can get away with wrecking peoples lives and businesses.

Blackmoor
09-08-11, 19:42
But if you take people's benefits off them, what will they do for food? I mean, we can't just starve them!

interstellardave
09-08-11, 19:44
I fail to understand why normal criminal punishment isn't enough in this case?

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 19:47
And the reason for these riots is not as short-term as the recent economic downturn; poverty and destitution was present in those areas years before and how you got banks linked to the riots I have no idea.

I was trying to demonstrate how abstract and spurious the link you'd drawn was by providing another one, but maybe I wasn't too clear.And poverty dosen't just exist "just because".

I simply cannot understand this...

These people deserve to be disciplined accordingly. If they don't, what sort of message is it bringing across? That they can get away with wrecking peoples lives and businesses.And they are being punished. Barring them from benefits is just maddness. It may make you feel good because you may perceive it as being justice, but it would really screw society in the long term. You can't really say you want these people to end up homeless. These riots are the result of poverty and alienation, making them all homeless and pennyless will make the situation in Britain so much more worse.

Rai
09-08-11, 19:50
I don't think these people should have their benefits taken away. Yes, they should be punished, they should take responsibility for the crimes committed - especially as other people's lives have been put at risk because of this. I guess each individual's case should be looked at. What exactly was their involvement etc, which I'm sure will be done anyway. But if benefit is their only income, how would taking it away help? It won't bring back the shops destroyed etc. If someone's involvement is severe enough, then they will get the punishment due to that crime anyway, possibly jail time. Taking their benefit away will leave them worse off than they are, possibly homeless. Do we really want them on the streets where they could maybe turn to further crime?

Forwen
09-08-11, 19:55
And poverty dosen't just exist "just because".

It doesn't. Its roots can be traced and hopefully acted upon, but it doesn't change the criminality of those riots.

And they are being punished. Barring them from benefits is just maddness. It may make you feel good because you may perceive it as being justice, but it would really screw society in the long term. You can't really say you want these people to end up homeless.

Actually, no one can seriously expect this to go ahead, even if this proposition makes it as far as the Commons in the first place. I'd imagine this petition is a way of expressing discontent with the welfare state because there's no denying it can be abused by people who simply can't be arsed to work.

Another Lara
09-08-11, 20:01
Actually, no one can seriously expect this to go ahead, even if this proposition makes it as far as the Commons in the first place. I'd imagine this petition is a way of expressing discontent with the welfare state because there's no denying it can be abused by people who simply can't be arsed to work.

Which probably counts for about 99.9% of the rioters!

If it didn't, they'd be round a computer or in a job centre looking for work rather than destroying businesses who possibly could have employed them!

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 20:03
It doesn't. Its roots can be traced and hopefully acted upon, but it doesn't change the criminality of those riots.



Actually, no one can seriously expect this to go ahead, even if this proposition makes it as far as the Commons in the first place. I'd imagine this petition is a way of expressing discontent with the welfare state because there's no denying it can be abused by people who simply can't be arsed to work.It is abused, but most people who claim actually need those benefits and its better that the needy are helped than the abusers punished. If this is the case then I'm simply sorry that these people have had their minds warped with such bile.

Uninformed bile such as this...
Which probably counts for about 99.9% of the rioters!

If it didn't, they'd be round a computer or in a job centre looking for work rather than destroying businesses who possibly could have employed them!

moodydog
09-08-11, 20:36
And poverty dosen't just exist "just because".

And they are being punished. Barring them from benefits is just maddness. It may make you feel good because you may perceive it as being justice, but it would really screw society in the long term. You can't really say you want these people to end up homeless. These riots are the result of poverty and alienation, making them all homeless and pennyless will make the situation in Britain so much more worse.

how would it be worse?

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 20:39
how would it be worse?Fine, it could stay really bad.

Another Lara
09-08-11, 20:44
It is abused, but most people who claim actually need those benefits and its better that the needy are helped than the abusers punished. If this is the case then I'm simply sorry that these people have had their minds warped with such bile.

Uninformed bile such as this...

Seriously?! You're attacking me now for having an opinion?! Someone who has been on benefits when unemployed so knows how hard it is?!

If anything you're the misinformed one who can't see past their holier than thou attitude! Grow up!

moodydog
09-08-11, 20:44
Fine, it could stay really bad.

could I dare say that the scum Jeremy Kyle type chavs may "die from hunger" whilst we watch and do nothing.
I mean how are they still alive anyway, their diets consist mainly of McDonalds and unlicensed chippie shop grub.

OriginalTRman
09-08-11, 20:47
i wish i can sign.

i'm glad you can't. you're not a citizen of my country so i really don't want your opinion having any effect on how my county is run.:mad:

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 20:47
Seriously?! You're attacking me now for having an opinion?! Someone who has been on benefits when unemployed so knows how hard it is?!

If anything you're the misinformed one who can't see past their holier than thou attitude! Grow up!Well that must of hit a nerve. Anyway, in case you haven't noticed the entire response to this has been holier than thou, the existance of this petition a clear example, so I think I'll keep my attitude and grow up when everybody else does. ;)

jaywalker
09-08-11, 20:49
how can wanting people who are clearly taking part in criminal activity as the OP states (convicted people note) be holier then thou? process should be as simple as this; convicted of a crime, IF on benefits then legitimacy of benefit claim is checked.. nothing wrong with that AT all..

as a person who grew up nearly 18 years ago when started working and paying my taxes etc, i think its totally in my right to be angry at the thugs taking part in these acts, and whilst i know nothing will happen with this petition as its clearly a voicing off of the people against the looters etc, it does show that a lot of people out there want as thorough a check as possible on people if they get convicted..

Another Lara
09-08-11, 20:55
Well that must of hit a nerve. Anyway, in case you haven't noticed the entire response to this has been holier than thou, the existance of this petition a clear example, so I think I'll keep my attitude and grow up when everybody else does. ;)

How is asking for justice being brought on criminals holier than thou exactly?!

And no it's ok you haven't hit a nerve, don't worry, I just find it hilarious that a youngster who's still in education thinks they know better than someone who has been out to work and earnt a living! Bless! ;)

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 21:10
How is asking for justice being brought on criminals holier than thou exactly?!

And no it's ok you haven't hit a nerve, don't worry, I just find it hilarious that a youngster who's still in education thinks they know better than someone who has been out to work and earnt a living! Bless! ;)This isn't asking for justice, that will already be happening, this is asking to take away benefits, extra punishment. And the very fact that they are targeting people who claim benefits just wreaks of the whole "holier than thou" thing your bringing up. These people have to feel important and are doing so by bringing benefits into and thereby their lessers.

I'm sure the fact that your a whole seven years older means that its ok for you to act, how would you describe that last paragraph, oh yeah; "holier than thou". But I am glad you have a job, infact the reason I'm still in education is because I have been able to find one, and I don't even live in a slum. I suppose it must please you having the power to patronise the scrounging unemployed.

Another Lara
09-08-11, 21:20
This isn't asking for justice, that will already be happening, this is asking to take away benefits, extra punishment. And the very fact that they are targeting people who claim benefits just wreaks of the whole "holier than thou" thing your bringing up. These people have to feel important and are doing so by bringing benefits into and thereby their lessers.

I'm sure the fact that your a whole seven years older means that its ok for you to act, how would you describe that last paragraph, oh yeah; "holier than thou". But I am glad you have a job, infact the reason I'm still in education is because I have been able to find one, and I don't even live in a slum. I suppose it must please you having the power to patronise the scrounging unemployed.

lmao, I wouldn't call it holier than thou, I would call it patronising! ;)

And I had pretty much the same defensive stand off with a friend of mine on facebook yesterday who I had to remind that I was myself on benefits when I couldn't find work after uni... not all those on benefits are scum, but all the scum are on benefits!

And no it doesn't please me as I work hard and have very little to show for it considering taxes and price rises in absolutely everything, and I know of a lot of people who are on benefits who like to brag that they've never been so well off! Not what I would call fair to be honest...

Anyway, I really can't be bothered to argue with someone who won't listen to other opinions that differ from their own "hug a hoodie" ideals, I'm off to bed as I have a job to go to in the morning; I'm one of the lucky ones who's place of work hasn't been destroyed by criminals.

jaywalker
09-08-11, 21:24
I'm off to bed as I have a job to go to in the morning; I'm one of the lucky ones who's place of work hasn't been destroyed by criminals.

Thats only cos u have armed police stationed outside your offices ;)

Super Badnik
09-08-11, 21:48
lmao, I wouldn't call it holier than thou, I would call it patronising! ;)

And I had pretty much the same defensive stand off with a friend of mine on facebook yesterday who I had to remind that I was myself on benefits when I couldn't find work after uni... not all those on benefits are scum, but all the scum are on benefits!

And no it doesn't please me as I work hard and have very little to show for it considering taxes and price rises in absolutely everything, and I know of a lot of people who are on benefits who like to brag that they've never been so well off! Not what I would call fair to be honest...

Anyway, I really can't be bothered to argue with someone who won't listen to other opinions that differ from their own "hug a hoodie" ideals, I'm off to bed as I have a job to go to in the morning; I'm one of the lucky ones who's place of work hasn't been destroyed by criminals."All scum are on benefits". I don't know what your definition of scum is so maybe I'm wrong in saying that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Anyway, however bad off you might be, your life probably isn't as worthless as the rioters ones since they obviously would rather burn buildings down than continue with their meaningless exsitance. As for the last little bit of that, I think your more bothered that I have listened to your opinions, after all if I hadn't I wouldn't be writing this would I? And so if its not that, its because your opinions have been challenged, thats what you don't like. "Hug a hoodie" sounds silly, but at least its not a heartless "kick a hoodie onto the street". And no, your not one of the lucky ones, the riots aren't literally everywhere, its a case of unlucky ones not having a place to work. Thats not to condome anything but to point out you obviously aren't aware of the proportions of the riots.

Oh, and goodnight. :)

Nenya awakens
09-08-11, 23:15
I've seen the extent of the damage where I live, my place of work has been looted, and there is no good enough reason for it, I couldn't care less if they are unhappy with their lives, I work a long week for pretty much no money at all and I don't feel the need to go and rob myself nice 50 inch TV. These rioters are pathetic miserable scum and I don't have an ounce of sympathy for them, we are all feeling the money pinch at the moment but what we don't do is turn on our neighbours and fellow humans. Robbing people on the street, chucking petrol bombs though local shop windows? one of my comanies stores up the road from me had an armed robbery last night and the guy who I KNOW who was running the cash office was beaten up and they got off with 5 grand. another of my companies stores in Peckham was completely destroyed and people I know and care about are out of work until it's fixed. Bunch of tossers with too much free time on their hands. selfish assholes.

knightgames
10-08-11, 03:01
Ok fine, riots happen because those black hooded scroungers just hate decency. Is that what you wanted to hear?

Oh and at the person above. MLK lived in the US, not a "Totalitarian Regime" and I never studied sociology.


Well, when England is only a few short years away from hanging chavs because of their colour, we'll talk. When chavs are segregated like blacks were in the U.S., then there might be a bit of comparison. Heck, I'll bet these folks have the right to vote, but DON'T. Blacks didn't. MLK called for PEACEFUL demonstrations. I know things aren't ideal in England, but to compare the two is extreme, IMO. These folks are punks.

Are they pi$$ed? Most definitely. Life isn't always easy, but this is inexcusable.



EDIT: That said. Taking away their benefits would be an horrendous idea. If the punks are willing to strike out like this when they do have their benefits, what do you think would happen if they are taken away. I'd force each and every one of them to clean up, repair, and then do community service. Who knows. It could lead to something better than the lives they chose to waste.

Sir Croft
10-08-11, 03:45
Their lives can be the ****tiest possible, it does NOT justify going around town destroying, looting and causing chaos. They are guilty as charged and should be punished as such. Like people have said, there are people in MUCH worse conditions who aren't rioting like a bunch of mindless beasts because their lives suck. Grow a ****ing pair. The situation is far worse in Brazil, as mentioned before, and you don't see people causing destruction and robbing with conviction, blindly believing they're justified, and don't even get me started on Africa. They're claiming their rights all wrong ways possible and, for that, they deserve to be punished.

Weemanply109
10-08-11, 04:09
What's with the double standards here?

Read Sir Croft's post and see the truth be spoken for the wise :tmb:

Super Badnik
10-08-11, 12:29
Well, when England is only a few short years away from hanging chavs because of their colour, we'll talk. When chavs are segregated like blacks were in the U.S., then there might be a bit of comparison. Heck, I'll bet these folks have the right to vote, but DON'T. Blacks didn't. MLK called for PEACEFUL demonstrations. I know things aren't ideal in England, but to compare the two is extreme, IMO. These folks are punks.

Are they pi$$ed? Most definitely. Life isn't always easy, but this is inexcusable.



EDIT: That said. Taking away their benefits would be an horrendous idea. If the punks are willing to strike out like this when they do have their benefits, what do you think would happen if they are taken away. I'd force each and every one of them to clean up, repair, and then do community service. Who knows. It could lead to something better than the lives they chose to waste.Yeah, read the rest of the thread then we'll talk dear. ;)

------

And the fact that worse **** happens probably isn't going to calm things down, as we've already established. I could tell the rioters of the US 1968 to try and live with discrimination Nazi Germany or Apartheid South Africa, or the poverty in the third world, wouldn't stop anything and it wouldn't make things right either (not that rioting does either). But I do find the double standards funny too. Everyone is willing to demonise people for rioting (for obvious reasons) while letting the people that have created this situation off the hook.

knightgames
10-08-11, 20:12
Yeah, read the rest of the thread then we'll talk dear. ;)

Touche'. I guess I deserved that. :D

------

And the fact that worse **** happens probably isn't going to calm things down, as we've already established. I could tell the rioters of the US 1968 to try and live with discrimination Nazi Germany or Apartheid South Africa, or the poverty in the third world, wouldn't stop anything and it wouldn't make things right either (not that rioting does either). But I do find the double standards funny too. Everyone is willing to demonise people for rioting (for obvious reasons) while letting the people that have created this situation off the hook.

It's true that there are circumstances that happen that make people behave in unnatural ways. I don't doubt that they feel powerless. The reason for this riot happening was the death of a citizen being detained by the police. I don't see what one has to do with the other. I understand how events are fluid and can morph into something different once it's started - hence the riots growing out of police brutality into frustration and criminal behavior due to their lot in life.

You mentioned MLK, and he made more of an impact with his peaceful protests than all the race riots during that time. While there are still race related issues today, there have been great strides in black white relations. I fail to see (no matter how frustrated, downtrodden, angry....) how breaking into stores and stealing TVs, or burning businesses to the ground, or beating others up will garner them any support. Nor will it ease their situation.

Is every one treated fairly in life? No. Whether it be because substandard living.... political gain that causes some to be treated unfairly.... poor education.... health issues.... businesses unwilling to build in certain areas of society.... jealousy of those who have it better than them.... or any other of the thousands of wrongs (perceived or real).... it's still not an excuse.

Not everything is fixable. Not everything is fair. It's life. A person can live in dignity and try to make the life of themselves and those around them better or they can use any and every excuse to lash out causing destruction and loss of sympathy.


I hope this makes sense. I haven't slept in two days and I'm exhausted.

Super Badnik
10-08-11, 21:05
Touche'. I guess I deserved that. :D

------

It's true that there are circumstances that happen that make people behave in unnatural ways. I don't doubt that they feel powerless. The reason for this riot happening was the death of a citizen being detained by the police. I don't see what one has to do with the other. I understand how events are fluid and can morph into something different once it's started - hence the riots growing out of police brutality into frustration and criminal behavior due to their lot in life.

You mentioned MLK, and he made more of an impact with his peaceful protests than all the race riots during that time. While there are still race related issues today, there have been great strides in black white relations. I fail to see (no matter how frustrated, downtrodden, angry....) how breaking into stores and stealing TVs, or burning businesses to the ground, or beating others up will garner them any support. Nor will it ease their situation.

Is every one treated fairly in life? No. Whether it be because substandard living.... political gain that causes some to be treated unfairly.... poor education.... health issues.... businesses unwilling to build in certain areas of society.... jealousy of those who have it better than them.... or any other of the thousands of wrongs (perceived or real).... it's still not an excuse.

Not everything is fixable. Not everything is fair. It's life. A person can live in dignity and try to make the life of themselves and those around them better or they can use any and every excuse to lash out causing destruction and loss of sympathy.


I hope this makes sense. I haven't slept in two days and I'm exhausted.I don't agree that the reason for the riots was the shooting. True, a man, who it now turns out was unarmed, being shot would always have caused outrage, but certainly not nationwide rioting and looting. I firmly believe it was merely a catalyst, I'd say the reasons are much more to do with long-term discontent and not one isolated incident.

I did quote Matrin Luther King a few pages back as I agreed with his view on rioting. I by no means meant to suggest his actions were violent in nature. But they were protests which I believe are different to riots.

As for the last part, fair enough, but you have tried to challenge the logic of the riots, which isn't really possible because there is no logic. Its pure rage and frustration. A man could punch another man in the face, theres no logic to it as its completely self-destructive but it happens because people get angry if they're wronged.

Forwen
10-08-11, 21:16
I don't agree that the reason for the riots was the shooting. True, a man, who it now turns out was unarmed, being shot would always have caused outrage, but certainly not nationwide rioting and looting.

The IPCC report said he did not fire at the police but had a loaded gun on him, has something changed since then?

TRexbait
11-08-11, 02:26
While I do support the idea of getting rid of the rioter's benefits, wouldn't doing so launch them so low that they would be more likely to continue stealing and looting and such? What I'm saying is, take people who are already agressive, take everything away from them, they're now more likely to be agressive on a more frequent basis.

At least, that's my view on it. I still believe these people should be punished to something of the severity of getting their benefits removed, but I would be weary of having that punishment backfire.

I'm on the fence.

EDIT: After a rather good, debate with a friend (one which I want to post here but needs some cleaning up) I will say that I'm more for the bill than against it.

knightgames
11-08-11, 08:30
I don't agree that the reason for the riots was the shooting. True, a man, who it now turns out was unarmed, being shot would always have caused outrage, but certainly not nationwide rioting and looting. I firmly believe it was merely a catalyst, I'd say the reasons are much more to do with long-term discontent and not one isolated incident.

I did quote Matrin Luther King a few pages back as I agreed with his view on rioting. I by no means meant to suggest his actions were violent in nature. But they were protests which I believe are different to riots.

As for the last part, fair enough, but you have tried to challenge the logic of the riots, which isn't really possible because there is no logic. Its pure rage and frustration. A man could punch another man in the face, theres no logic to it as its completely self-destructive but it happens because people get angry if they're wronged.


I understand there to be underlying issues that have caused this - at least within the mind set of those committing these crimes. I understand disparity is a huge motivating factor in many things people do. I won't excuse what they've done, but to further the conversation so as not to keep going back and forth what would you correct so that these incidents don't happen again?

IMO, the lack of choices in peoples life causes great frustration, and without the means to understand and correct that, one ends up in a permanent cycle of disillusion and despair. It's NOT an excuse for what's happening, but so as to avoid future incidents, what would you recommend, Super Badnick? I also believe there will always be some who don't care no matter how much is fixed.

I mentioned what I'd do for punishment in one of my posts prior to this. One thing is I'd make them not only clean up the places, but be instrumental in rebuilding. It could be a stepping point for them to do things they may not have attempted and could be a catalyst for their own change. For example, someone re-framing a building could instill in them a career path, like construction, that they may not have considered before.

While it's hard to see now, SOMETHING good can come from this should enough people put their heads together. Not every inequity can be fixed. Not every perceived slight is a slight. Nor is it 100% the government's fault or responsibility to care for those who won't help themselves.

I'm very angry at this sort of behavior. It's inexcusable. But can we grow from it? Do those involved with the rioting and looting WANT that too?

Super Badnik
11-08-11, 11:20
The IPCC report said he did not fire at the police but had a loaded gun on him, has something changed since then?To correct, what I actually heard was that he didn't fire upon the police, so what you said is probably the case.

I understand there to be underlying issues that have caused this - at least within the mind set of those committing these crimes. I understand disparity is a huge motivating factor in many things people do. I won't excuse what they've done, but to further the conversation so as not to keep going back and forth what would you correct so that these incidents don't happen again?

IMO, the lack of choices in peoples life causes great frustration, and without the means to understand and correct that, one ends up in a permanent cycle of disillusion and despair. It's NOT an excuse for what's happening, but so as to avoid future incidents, what would you recommend, Super Badnik? I also believe there will always be some who don't care no matter how much is fixed.

I mentioned what I'd do for punishment in one of my posts prior to this. One thing is I'd make them not only clean up the places, but be instrumental in rebuilding. It could be a stepping point for them to do things they may not have attempted and could be a catalyst for their own change. For example, someone re-framing a building could instill in them a career path, like construction, that they may not have considered before.

While it's hard to see now, SOMETHING good can come from this should enough people put their heads together. Not every inequity can be fixed. Not every perceived slight is a slight. Nor is it 100% the government's fault or responsibility to care for those who won't help themselves.

I'm very angry at this sort of behavior. It's inexcusable. But can we grow from it? Do those involved with the rioting and looting WANT that too?I'm not sure you can actually correct anything, the way our society is structured is fundamentally flawed in a way that there always will be the existance of a downtrodden group, our system relies on it. But the austerity measures that have followed the recession have only helped to create this explosive situation.

As for your method of punishment, it is a much better idea seeing how its actually beneficial to society rather than destructive. Unfortunatley it has already been decided to strip people of benefits and evict them from council housing, so be ready for a lot of homeless, angry, desperate rioters on the streets.

Forwen
11-08-11, 11:25
To correct, what I actually heard was that he didn't fire upon the police, so what you said is probably the case.

The police are authorised to fire if they believe lives are in danger. It's possible they knew about or saw the gun and shot him pre-emptively. It'll be made clear after the investigation I guess.

toxicraider
11-08-11, 19:06
The petition has passed 100,000 signatures, so will be considered for debate. :)

I doubt it will even be approved for debating, let alone enacted.

Super Badnik
11-08-11, 20:08
The petition has passed 100,000 signatures, so will be considered for debate. :)

I doubt it will even be approved for debating, let alone enacted.It has already been enacted. Even without it the government are stripping people of benefits and forcing them out of council housing. So job well done to everyone who signed it, there will now be around 12,000 angry, desperate, former rioters roaming the streets with nothing left to loose. Safe at last. :)

Ward Dragon
11-08-11, 23:48
It has already been enacted. Even without it the government are stripping people of benefits and forcing them out of council housing. So job well done to everyone who signed it, there will now be around 12,000 angry, desperate, former rioters roaming the streets with nothing left to loose. Safe at last. :)

I hardly see how that's any worse than things were before they were evicted. If they were willing to riot, loot, and kill people while they were getting free room and board then they belong in prison. Their council houses should go to the people who actually need help and aren't just looking for a free ride or an excuse to steal stuff.

Horus-Goddess
12-08-11, 01:49
We haven't been getting a ton of coverage on this but I just wanted to extend my sympathy for those affected by it. My biggest issue with it is that the rioters didn't seem to see the long-term repercussions this would have for everyone. They hurt themselves by hurting others. Not to mention the economic side of it. I feel most sorry for those who have died from this or lost their businesses and livelihood.

It's very sad.

I'm glad something will be done about it I just hope it will be a solution and not create a problem.

leglion
12-08-11, 03:54
We haven't been getting a ton of coverage on this but I just wanted to extend my sympathy for those affected by it. My biggest issue with it is that the rioters didn't seem to see the long-term repercussions this would have for everyone. They hurt themselves by hurting others. Not to mention the economic side of it. I feel most sorry for those who have died from this or lost their businesses and livelihood.

It's very sad.

I'm glad something will be done about it I just hope it will be a solution and not create a problem.
That reminded me of the L.A. riots.

Another Lara
12-08-11, 05:36
The guy that got attacked for trying to put out a fire has just died! :(

I really hope the guy that did this is found and suffers some tough justice, it's sickening that it was able to get so far!!!

toxicraider
12-08-11, 12:04
It has already been enacted. Even without it the government are stripping people of benefits and forcing them out of council housing. So job well done to everyone who signed it, there will now be around 12,000 angry, desperate, former rioters roaming the streets with nothing left to loose. Safe at last. :)

As far as I'm aware, there's a long list of people waiting for council houses, and people that have been in prison go to the end of the list, so this is fairly normal procedure. I just feel for the people's families; their parents or children that have to suffer despite being innocent, hence why I didn't sign the petition.