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Catracoth
17-08-11, 21:33
Lord, the nonsense that goes on in my city.

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110817/NEWS/108170339

NEW BEDFORD William Camacho has practiced Palo Mayombe, a syncretic Afro-Caribbean religion similar to Santeria, since he was a child.

Camacho, 41, said his religious practices, which include animal sacrificing, have gotten him into trouble with the city, which is considering filing animal cruelty charges against him.

"They violated my moral rights," said Camacho, owner of Bad Boyz Cutz, a downtown barbershop that was closed Tuesday after city inspectors found evidence of ritualistic animal sacrifice there, officials said.

Camacho denies he was sacrificing animals at his business, which he opened in 2008 at 664 Pleasant St.

"They had no right to shut me down," he said.

Just before noon Tuesday, city animal control officers removed two chickens and four roosters, one dead, from the barbershop's basement after fire and building inspectors found the farm birds during a routine safety inspection.

The chickens and roosters were kept in two pens next to a religious altar of candles, saint statues and hand-drawn religious symbols, said New Bedford Animal Control Officer Emanuel Maciel, who said the call first came in as a possible cockfighting ring.

"They weren't using them for fighting. If anything, (the birds) were being used for religious sacrificial purposes," said Maciel, who seized the roosters and chickens because they are not allowed within city limits. The poultry will be put up for adoption.

The dead rooster was sent to the state police laboratory for analysis. The cause of death was not apparent, according to the mayor's office.

Meanwhile, the Massachusetts Division of Professional Licensure closed the barbershop indefinitely. Animal cruelty charges against Camacho are pending the outcome of a police investigation, the mayor's office said.

Camacho said he does not sacrifice animals at his business, only at religious ceremonies in rural settings.

Palo Mayombe incorporates elements of Roman Catholicism along with West African and native Indian traditions. The religion venerates ancestors' spirits and holds a belief in natural earth powers.

Like Santeria, Palo Mayombe features animal sacrifices, such as goats and chickens. The animals' blood is thought to have a sacred, powerful life force capable of healing and warding off evil spirits. After the sacrifice, the animals are cooked and eaten.

"The roosters go to heaven after the sacrifice. It's the traditional way," said Camacho, who has tattoos on his arms of his children's names, Jesus Christ and an Indian female warrior. He added that he occasionally uses spells for protection.

Camacho told The Standard-Times he had kept the farm birds in the shop basement for two days after moving out of his East Freetown home and said he planned to move them to a friend's house in Acushnet.

He said he kept scented candles to freshen the basement air.

"I run a clean shop here," said Camacho, a 41-year-old Bronx native who decorates his business with New York Yankees memorabilia.

Camacho's situation is but one example of how ritual animal sacrifices, real or alleged, generate conflicts between the law and religions such as Palo Mayombe and Santeria.

In 1993, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that a Florida city's ban on ritual animal sacrifice violated the religious freedoms of Santeria adherents.

In 2006, the city of Euless, Texas, refused to allow a Santeria priest to sacrifice a goat. Three years later, a federal court ruled in the priest's favor.

The New Bedford case highlights the tensions of religious practice with a municipality's legitimate interest in enforcing ordinances for public safety and health reasons, said attorney Laurence M. Johnson, chairman of the Massachusetts Bar Association's Individual Rights and Responsibilities Section, which advises lawyers on constitutional rights.

"It is perfectly plain under the First Amendment that people have a right to believe whatever religious beliefs they want, and they have a right to express their beliefs, but that does not mean they have a right to do whatever they want in practicing their religion," Johnson said.

Johnson said he felt a "little uneasy" that the state closed Bad Boyz Cutz.

"Once the roosters were removed, I don't see what the legitimate government purpose was of shutting down the barbershop," he said.

Camacho said officials moved to shut him down to cover themselves after they realized he was not running a cockfighting ring.

"I told them it was all for a religious purpose," he said.

Also saying that Palo Mayombe has prophetic powers, Camacho said Tuesday's events were actually predicted four days ago in a friend's dream.

"And who shows up at my door today? The cops."

cezy rockeru
17-08-11, 21:43
lmao what


:vlol:

that's just too much.

Catracoth
17-08-11, 21:50
On the news, he says "In my country, that's normal."
My dad said, "Okay, well here in America, we don't sacrifice animals. Feel free to go back where you came from."

:vlol:

FloTheMachine
17-08-11, 21:51
OMG. Thats over the top. :vlol:

Zelda master
17-08-11, 21:54
Only in America...

cezy rockeru
17-08-11, 21:54
On the news, he says "In my country, that's normal."
My dad said, "Okay, well here in America, we don't sacrifice animals. Feel free to go back where you came from."

:vlol:

that's just.. Wrong :vlol:

who the hell sacrifices animals nowadays anyway D:

Zelda master
17-08-11, 21:58
Uhmm... Everyone who eats meat..?

Apathetic
17-08-11, 22:00
Uhmm... Everyone who eats meat..?

There's a distinct difference between sacrifices and survival. Can you guess which one is necessary?

_Awestruck_
17-08-11, 22:02
What the what...

Some people seem to take the "Land of the free" thing too seriously...

Zelda master
17-08-11, 22:04
There's a distinct difference between sacrifices and survival. Can you guess which one is necessary?

We could also start eating plants for survival... Argument is invalid..

Apathetic
17-08-11, 22:09
We could also start eating plants for survival... Argument is invalid..

That makes no sense.

cezy rockeru
17-08-11, 22:15
We could also start eating plants for survival... Argument is invalid..

we started eating plants (fruits and vegetables),like,so much time ago.

Zelda master
17-08-11, 22:19
That makes no sense.

What is not to understand... Become a vegetarion you can also survive that way... Saying that eating meat is neccesary for survival is not true...

trfanX34
17-08-11, 22:20
What is not to understand... Become a vegetarion you can also survive that way... Saying that eating meat is neccesary for survival is not true...

Poor vegetables they are living beings too.

Alex Shepherd
17-08-11, 22:22
Very strange.

Catracoth
17-08-11, 22:24
Uhmm... Everyone who eats meat..?
We could also start eating plants for survival... Argument is invalid..
What is not to understand... Become a vegetarion you can also survive that way... Saying that eating meat is neccesary for survival is not true...

Your argument is invalid.
There's a fine line between the necessary consumption of meat and sacrificing an animal for the sake of appeasing a possibly non-existent God.
Furthermore, it's vegetarian, and vegetarianism isn't eating plants. We're not herbivore dinosaurs. Also, plants do not provide protein and other nutritional substances that meat does, and some people do not enjoy the alternatives.
So it actually is true, for some, that eating meat is necessary for survival.

Thank you, come again.

Zelda master
17-08-11, 22:34
So far so good my sister managed not to eat any piece of meat for 3 years and is still alive... She gets all the vitamins, minerals and all other stuff in her body without taking extra pills or anything, she is perfectly healthy. In this day and age there are many other possibility to get all the stuff in your body without eating meat.

Plus saying that his god is nonexcistint is somewhat hard to say... There is no prove of god atall, you could also argue that none of any religeons gods excist untill proven otherwise. And manage to survive without eating meat has been proven possible...

moodydog
17-08-11, 22:37
Well I would expect something like that from Cheydinhal, I am from Anvil... so you wouldn't get any of that nonsense here. :p

TheGermanLlama
17-08-11, 22:38
W-what?!

I...

Ugh, is this really what I'm reading?

Zelda master
17-08-11, 22:41
Something called: Palo Mayombe, apparently... Never heard of it myself untill half an hour ago :o

Catracoth
17-08-11, 22:41
Well I would expect something like that from Cheydinhal, I am from Anvil... so you wouldn't get any of that nonsense here. :p

Must have been a member of the Dark Brotherhood.
Those freaks.

So far so good my sister managed not to eat any piece of meat and is still alive... She gets all the vitamins, minerals and all other stuff in her body without taking extra pills or anything, she is perfectly healthy. In this day and age there are many other possibility to get all the stuff in your body without eating meat.

Good for her. Exercise also makes you skinny. Do you see Adele on a treadmill? No. Why? She doesn't want to. You can't make a horse drink water if it doesn't want to. If people want to eat meat and disagree that vegetarianism is the way to go, that's their decision, and you've no right to question nor slander it. I wasn't born this morning, as I am well aware of ways to get the nutrition you need without eating meat. But hey, guess what? I like cheeseburgers and barbecue ribs. I'm not giving it up for anyone.

Plus saying that his god is nonexcistint is somewhat hard to say... There is no prove of god atall, you could also argue that none of any religeons gods excist untill proven otherwise. And manage to survive without eating meat has been proven possible...

This isn't a religious discussion thread.
I was making the point that there's a difference between sacrificing animals for a deity and killing them in order to eat and survive.

Apathetic
17-08-11, 22:49
Saying that eating meat is neccesary for survival is not true...

Clearly you are missing some facts here. Before the Neolithic Revolution, civilizations were predominantly dependent on hunting and gathering (not to be confused with agricultural farming) for survival. Other civilizations thrived off meat due to the inability to farm due to climate and geography. This is why meat is necessary for survival, or at least was in the making of what could be your own very existence. So before you make an absurdly ignorant claim such as "Saying that eating meat is neccesary for survival is not true.." think again and consider the very reason you're on Earth; because your ancestors ate meat. :wve: Also, I'll reiterate and quote Catracoth when he said "There's a fine line between the necessary consumption of meat and sacrificing an animal for the sake of appeasing a possibly non-existent God."

Zelda master
17-08-11, 22:51
Good for her. Exercise also makes you skinny. Do you see Adele on a treadmill? No. Why? She doesn't want to. You can't make a horse drink water if it doesn't want to. If people want to eat meat and disagree that vegetarianism is the way to go, that's their decision, and you've no right to question nor slander it. I wasn't born this morning, as I am well aware of ways to get the nutrition you need without eating meat. But hey, guess what? I like cheeseburgers and barbecue ribs. I'm not giving it up for anyone.


Me neighter, I'm not giving my meat away, I like to eat it and no one and nothing is going to make me stop doing that (a disseas is a different story though). But my point was that you could intact survive without eating meat.

[QUOTE=Catracoth;5638034 This isn't a religious discussion thread.
I was making the point that there's a difference between sacrificing animals for a deity and killing them in order to eat and survive.[/QUOTE]

I understand that part, but if he believes in a god and sacrivices chickens for that god I don't see the problem... Esspecially if he perfectly fine and doesn't harm any people...

Edit:
More quoting... I can't on my cellphone XD
I'll just use my PC tomorrow...

xXhayleyroxXx
17-08-11, 22:54
That guy is whack D:

Catracoth
17-08-11, 23:00
I understand that part, but if he believes in a god and sacrivices chickens for that god I don't see the problem... Esspecially if he perfectly fine and doesn't harm any people...

You're not looking at it from the point of view of the mayor of the city and the government. It's not only a case of animal abuse, regardless of religious practices, but it's also an issue of public safety.

Zelda master
17-08-11, 23:04
Then what is he doing to destroy the safety of the people..? Aslong as he doesn't run around with a knife butchering people, I really don't see the problem personally...
And assuming he just chopped the head of that chicken then it had a much better way of going from this planet they the chicken I are last night...

xXhayleyroxXx
17-08-11, 23:08
Then what is he doing to destroy the safety of the people..? Aslong as he doesn't run around with a knife butchering people, I really don't see the problem personally...
And assuming he just chopped the head of that chicken then it had a much better way of going from this planet they the chicken I are last night...

It's not exactly hygienic, or safe; is it? And it's damn cruel.

Apathetic
17-08-11, 23:11
Then what is he doing to destroy the safety of the people..? Aslong as he doesn't run around with a knife butchering people, I really don't see the problem personally...
And assuming he just chopped the head of that chicken then it had a much better way of going from this planet they the chicken I are last night...

You would be fine with your barbershop possibly sacrificing animals in the very basement of the building? Those scissors might not only have been used for hair cutting.. ;) Also, you still haven't replied to my post on why meat is necessary for survival.

Love2Raid
17-08-11, 23:16
It's just a matter of ones morals (or however you say this in English). In the past, and right now where this guy is from, this practice is accepted and considered normal. But where he lives right now it is not, and it is forbidden by law. Killing chicken for consumption is morally accepted however. Who knows, one day it might be different, but right now it is. So that's the difference.

On one hand you have to respect ones freedom of religion/culture, and on the other hand, the well-being of living creatures and prevent that they suffer needlessly. This man obviously sees these sacrifices as very necessary, but he lives in the USA now (where the majority thinks otherwise), so he should just abide by the law.

Zelda master
17-08-11, 23:17
If you checked my previous post you would understand Why... I'm on my cell quoting one person was develish, quoting two is just hell... I'll be getting to that post later today after I get some sleep :p

Catracoth
18-08-11, 02:05
On one hand you have to respect ones freedom of religion/culture, and on the other hand, the well-being of living creatures and prevent that they suffer needlessly. This man obviously sees these sacrifices as very necessary, but he lives in the USA now (where the majority thinks otherwise), so he should just abide by the law.

[/discussion]

Tombraiderx08
18-08-11, 02:47
At a barbershop? :vlol: that's so creepy!

Shark_Blade
18-08-11, 06:31
Sweeney Todd got tired of sacrificing people now?