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View Full Version : The TR Level Tournament: Round 2, Quarter 3 Voting


Ward Dragon
01-09-11, 19:58
See the general thread for the tournament (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=183565) which includes all match-ups from Round 2, as well as the results from Round 1.

Quarter 3 consists of the winners from Divisions 5 and 6 from Round 1.

Please vote for one level from each pair :)


Round 2, Quarter 2 Results
Winners are in bold.

The Hall of Seasons (AoD)
Madubu Gorge (TR3)

Wreck of the Maria Doria (TR2)
Burial Chambers (TRLR)

The River Ganges (TR3)
Cistern (TR1)

Home Sweet Home (TR2)
Strahov Fortress (AoD)

The Lost Library (TRLR)
The Serpent Rouge (AoD)

The Great Wall (TR2)
Natla's Mines (TR1)

St. Francis Folly (TR1)
Old Mill (TRC)

The Ice Palace (TR2)
Lost City of Tinnos

Seth94
01-09-11, 20:14
My votes:

Obelisk of Khamoon
Underneath the Sphinx
Bio-Research Facility
Antarctica
Area 51
Tibetan Foothills
The Great Pyramid
The Floating Islands

sheepman23
01-09-11, 20:15
No real tough ones here, although I was forced to vote against a few levels that I love - Gallows Tree, Bio-Research Facility, and Area 51, simply because the levels they were against were purely brilliant and I couldn't resist picking them. :(

peeves
01-09-11, 22:21
Gallows Tree
Coastal Ruins
Bio Research Facility
Antarctica
Area 51
Tibetan Foothills
Colosseum
Floating Islands

Spong
01-09-11, 22:25
After all this time, I still don't get these. Quarters? Match-ups? Divisions? It all sounds unnecessarily complicated.

patriots88888
01-09-11, 22:30
After all this time, I still don't get these. Quarters? Match-ups? Divisions? It all sounds unnecessarily complicated.

I believe Sheepman is just going about a systematic way of determining Tomb Raider's ultimate level, is all.

LaraDuh
01-09-11, 22:31
Why in GaGas name is Galleries under seige losing :confused:

sheepman23
01-09-11, 22:36
After all this time, I still don't get these. Quarters? Match-ups? Divisions? It all sounds unnecessarily complicated.

What's so difficult about selecting a level from each pair that you like more? :rolleyes:

Anyhow... I will explain how it works, as I did in a previous thread. ;)

- In Round 1, the 128 levels from TR1, TR2, TR3, TRLR, TRC, and AoD were randomly matched-up against eachother. The 64 pairs of levels were separated into 8 different divisions, each consisting of 16 pairs of levels. So after Round 1, there were 64 winners.

- In Round 2, there are now only 64 levels remaining in the tournament, and it works the same way as Round 1 - only there are four polls instead of eight, hence "quarters" instead of "divisions." A "quarter" consists of two "divisions." Sorry if it's confusing to you, I just thought it would work a little better. :)

- In Round 3, there will be only 32 levels remaining. In Round 4, there will be only 16, 8 in Round 5, 4 in the Semi-Finals, and the remaining 2 will be paired against eachother in the Finals. The winner of the Finals is the winner of the tournament.

Hope that helps. :)

Spong
01-09-11, 22:40
^Sorry for not replying directly, I was typing this as you posted.

I believe Sheepman is just going about a systematic way of determining Tomb Raider's ultimate level, is all.

I can think of easier ways of achieving that without padding it out with unnecessary rounds/quarters. Besides, if people don't religiously vote all way through the process (without extra people voting in random rounds/quarters), that pollutes the result doesn't it? Doesn't seem very systematic in that respect.

I'd have listed all the levels in one poll and just let people fight it out for a week. But that's just me :p

sheepman23
01-09-11, 22:43
I can think of easier ways of achieving that without padding it out with unnecessary rounds/quarters. Besides, if people don't religiously vote all way through the process (without extra people voting in random rounds/quarters all), that pollutes the result doesn't it? Doesn't seem very systematic in that respect.

I'd have listed all the levels in one poll and just let people fight it out for a week. But that's just me.

How would that work, when it's only possible to list 40 poll options? :confused: I can't really see the harm in doing a tournament like this, and I would say it is rather systematic. Everything about it is fair, and it all works in the same way every round. :)

patriots88888
01-09-11, 22:45
I can think of easier ways of achieving that without padding it out with unnecessary rounds/quarters. Besides, if people don't religiously vote all way through the process (without extra people voting in random rounds/quarters), that pollutes the result doesn't it? Doesn't seem very systematic in that respect.

I'd have listed all the levels in one poll and just let people fight it out for a week. But that's just me :p

Well, I can see your point and I didn't say that the 'system' doesn't have its flaws... but what can you do on an internet forum? Besides, it's all in good fun anways, or at least it's supposed to be. :p

Seth94
01-09-11, 22:48
The tournaments are very systematic imo. The fact that the best level in the tournament has to face 8 matchups makes it very fair and accurate. It's also a good way of comparing very contrasting levels. Venice vs. Antarctica for example. These are levels with extremely different styles of gameplay and atmosphere. :)

btw, how is Antarctica losing to Venice lol. :p

sheepman23
01-09-11, 22:51
The tournaments are very systematic imo. The fact that the best level in the tournament has to face 8 matchups makes it very fair and accurate. It's also a good way of comparing very contrasting levels. Venice vs. Antarctica for example. These are levels with extremely different styles of gameplay and atmosphere. :)

Exactly. :tmb: Normally, we just compare levels against eachother within one game... but with this, they're all compared against levels from different games. And yeah, Venice and Antarctica are a perfect example, they're so very different, and that's why it presents an interesting choice. ;)

btw, how is Antarctica losing to Venice lol. :p

I have no idea - Venice is a nice level, but Antarctica just has a lot better gameplay, IMO. :)

Spong
01-09-11, 22:59
How would that work, when it's only possible to list 40 poll options? :confused:

Then, clearly, vBulletin is rubbish and it would be have to be split into separate threads :p

I can't really see the harm in doing a tournament like this, and I would say it is rather systematic. Everything about it is fair, and it all works in the same way every round. :)

There's no 'harm' in it at all, I never said there was. The way you set it out may be fair in its rules (although I simply can't fathom the match-ups :confused:). But I believe what I said about consistency in voting effecting the results still stands. Only the people who voted in round one/quarter one should be allowed to continue to vote to ensure a fair result. If forty people vote consistently from the beginning and then, in the last round, another one hundred people vote, that corrupts the final result massively (not to mention ruining it for the forty people).

I guess I'm too logical for my own good sometimes :o

sheepman23
01-09-11, 23:02
There's no 'harm' in it at all, I never said there was. The way you set it out may be fair in its rules (although I simply can't fathom the match-ups :confused:).

They're all random, except for making sure that the fan favorites are split up (so that we're not having to vote out the best ones in the first round :p).

But I believe what I said about consistency in voting effecting the results still stands. Only the people who voted in round one/quarter one should be allowed to continue to vote to ensure a fair result. If forty people vote consistently from the beginning and then, in the last round, another one hundred people vote, that corrupts the final result massively (not to mention ruining it for the forty people).

You do make a good point there. :tmb: But unfortunately, I can't really see any other way of doing it. I thought it would be a cool idea, but I guess you're right - there are some inconsistencies to it.

But I rarely see new people voting, every once in a while they might, but for the most part it's the same users in every poll. ;)

Ward Dragon
01-09-11, 23:26
There's no 'harm' in it at all, I never said there was. The way you set it out may be fair in its rules (although I simply can't fathom the match-ups :confused:). But I believe what I said about consistency in voting effecting the results still stands. Only the people who voted in round one/quarter one should be allowed to continue to vote to ensure a fair result. If forty people vote consistently from the beginning and then, in the last round, another one hundred people vote, that corrupts the final result massively (not to mention ruining it for the forty people).

I guess I'm too logical for my own good sometimes :o

Well, first of all it's mostly for fun so we're not obsessively concerned with accuracy :p (if accuracy was a concern then like you said, everyone would have to vote in all rounds).

As far as it being overly complicated, perhaps, but brackets like this are used a lot of places when there are too many choices for a flat-out vote. I'll try to make a little example to show why :)

Let's say there were 5 choices and everyone voted for their single favorite choice.

For choices 1-3, 70% of people liked it but only 20% voted it as their favorite.

For choice 4, 25% voted for it because they really love it but everyone else hates it.

For choice 5, the remaining 15% of voters voted for it.

In this scenario, choice 4 wins because it got the most votes even though 75% of people hate it.

On the other hand, if it was done with brackets then if a person's favorite level gets knocked out they can vote for their second favorite level and the overall winner should be a level that most people do like even if it isn't their absolute favorite.

kooky
01-09-11, 23:27
My votes are:

Obelisk of Khamoon (TR1)
Coastal Ruins (TRLR)
Crash Site (TR3)
Antarctica (TR3)
The Lost Valley (TR1)
Tibetan Foothills (TR2)
Colosseum (TR1)
Floating Islands (TR2)

;)

sheepman23
01-09-11, 23:42
On the other hand, if it was done with brackets then if a person's favorite level gets knocked out they can vote for their second favorite level and the overall winner should be a level that most people do like even if it isn't their absolute favorite.

A very nice point that you bring up. :tmb: But yeah, that's one of the things that really makes it different than "vote for your favorite level," because if your favorite should end up losing, you can always shoot for one of your other favorites winning, too.

And in the end, like you said, the winner should generally be the "most liked" level in the series, not the one that has the most people who consider it their favorite. :tmb: A good example of this is Aldwych - the level has a ton of people who love it as one of their favorites of the series, but I've also seen an equal amount who don't like it as much. Hence the reason why Tomb of Qualopec won, more people generally like it more, despite Aldwych having a good amount of people who would consider it worthy of the top spot. ;)

DgoOdz94
01-09-11, 23:43
Voted! :D

Good Lord it was touch between Venice and Antarctica. :p But Antarctica takes my vote. :)

Rai
02-09-11, 00:03
Made my votes. :)

Eddie Haskell
02-09-11, 00:21
What's so difficult about selecting a level from each pair that you like more? :rolleyes:

Anyhow... I will explain how it works, as I did in a previous thread. ;)

- In Round 1, the 128 levels from TR1, TR2, TR3, TRLR, TRC, and AoD were randomly matched-up against eachother. The 64 pairs of levels were separated into 8 different divisions, each consisting of 16 pairs of levels. So after Round 1, there were 64 winners.

- In Round 2, there are now only 64 levels remaining in the tournament, and it works the same way as Round 1 - only there are four polls instead of eight, hence "quarters" instead of "divisions." A "quarter" consists of two "divisions." Sorry if it's confusing to you, I just thought it would work a little better. :)

- In Round 3, there will be only 32 levels remaining. In Round 4, there will be only 16, 8 in Round 5, 4 in the Semi-Finals, and the remaining 2 will be paired against eachother in the Finals. The winner of the Finals is the winner of the tournament.

Hope that helps. :)

First, with this response I am not implying anything sinister or underhanded. And secondly, I like the polls so far. However, here goes:

Define random as it applies here. This is where the pollster can manipulate the pairings if he chose to. If I was going to do something like this, I would have matched them alphabetically, thereby eliminating any speculation that the pairings are setup with an ulterior motive. So, how did you 'randomly' choose the pairings?

Blackmoor
02-09-11, 01:34
Some tricky one's here for me...

Lost Valley v. Area 51
Colosseum v. Great Pyramid

Anyway, it looks like all the right levels are winning for a change, apart from Galleries under Siege (against Tibetan Foothills! :eek: *splutter*) :rolleyes: :D

My picks:

*Obelisk of Khamoon
*Coastal Ruins (this pick I didn't really care about)
*Crash Site
*Venice
*Lost Valley
*Galleries under Siege
*Colosseum
*Archaeological Dig (this pick I didn't really care about either)

sheepman23
02-09-11, 02:02
First, with this response I am not implying anything sinister or underhanded. And secondly, I like the polls so far. However, here goes:

Define random as it applies here. This is where the pollster can manipulate the pairings if he chose to. If I was going to do something like this, I would have matched them alphabetically, thereby eliminating any speculation that the pairings are setup with an ulterior motive. So, how did you 'randomly' choose the pairings?

I'd be happy to explain. :)

When I was composing the bracket, I first took a look at the results of the "best level" polls that were done in 2009.

Here's the TR3 poll, (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=151138&highlight=tournament) for instance. As you can see, the 4 levels with the most votes were Temple Ruins, The River Ganges, Nevada Desert, and Aldwych. So I made sure that these four levels were in four different quarters of the bracket. Then, I took the next four levels with the highest amount of votes - Jungle, Coastal Village, Crash Site, and Lost City of Tinnos - and also made sure that they were also in separate corners of the bracket.

For the rest of the levels, here's a little example of how I did things:

Jungle
Temple Ruins
The River Ganges
Caves of Kaliya
--------------------------------------------
Nevada Desert
High Security Compound
Area 51
--------------------------------------------
Coastal Village
Crash Site
Madubu Gorge
Temple of Puna
-------------------------------------------

Blue = Quarter 1
Red = Quarter 2
Green = Quarter 3
Black = Quarter 4

As you can see, I made sure to separate each level in each section into different quarters of the bracket. The same applies for London and Antarctica (and most of the other games as well, although it was a bit trickier when doing The Last Revelation and AoD, as the sections tend to have more levels than TR1 - 3 and Chronicles).

As for placing them in the bracket, here's an example from Division 1.

Palace Midas vs. Caves of Kaliya
Khufu's Queens' Pyramids vs. Diving Area
Tomb of Ancients vs. Race for the Iris
The Deck vs. Industrial Rooftops
Tomb of Semerkhet vs. Caves
The 13th Floor vs. Louvre Storm Drains
Coastal Village vs. KV5
The Vault of Trophies vs. The Dragon's Lair

The levels in bold are the ones that I defined as "fan favorites" from the 2009 polls. When those were evenly spread out, the rest were spread out across each quarter. It's hard to really recall how it was done; I think I went in order by each game (starting with TR1), and placed them into different slots. So, for instance, the levels from TR2 in Quarter 1 are Diving Area, The Deck, The Dragon's Lair, Barkhang Monastery, and Bartoli's Hideout. I tried to place them in slots so that they weren't close to eachother within the quarter. I also made it a goal to try and have different levels from different games always being paired against eachother (as you notice, there are no pairs in Round 1 that have both levels from the same game ;)).

With this method, it all just filled in quite nicely. I know it's hard to believe that there wasn't any prejudice involved, but I can honestly tell all of you that there wasn't. :) If there was prejudice, I would've put Madubu Gorge in a division filled with levels like Caves of Kaliya, Deepsea Dive, Boaz Returns, The Mastabas, The Breath of Hades... etc. You get the idea. ;)

(By the way, sorry if that was awfully confusing... :o)

Eddie Haskell
02-09-11, 14:23
^Thank you fir explaining your process. And so far it is working out just fine.

I wonder how it would have looked/worked if all of the levels were paired alphabetically, Alexandria through Wreck of the Maria Doria?

sheepman23
02-09-11, 18:27
^Thank you fir explaining your process. And so far it is working out just fine.

You're welcome, it's probably a good idea that I share how I did it anyway. ;)

I wonder how it would have looked/worked if all of the levels were paired alphabetically, Alexandria through Wreck of the Maria Doria?

An interesting question. Perhaps in a few years, someone can do another tournament, only in alphabetical order... :D

Vinkula
02-09-11, 18:30
Voted :tmb:

b0bb13
02-09-11, 18:35
Almost all the levels I voted for are like, totally in my favourites list. Poor Bio-Research Facility is losing. 3':{

sheepman23
02-09-11, 18:43
Interesting, every level that's winning right now is winning by atleast 10 points. It doesn't look like there'll be any close ones here...

Saman
02-09-11, 20:08
Thanks again!

Voted:
_

Obelisk of Khamoon (TR1)
_

Coastal Ruins (TRLR)
_

Crash Site (TR3)
_

Venice (TR2)
_

The Lost Valley (TR1)
_

Galleries Under Siege (AoD)
_

Colosseum (TR1)
_

The Floating Islands (TR2)
_

Voted!

Later again!

Love2Raid
02-09-11, 20:14
Yay, glad to see all my pics are winning. :D

All but one, Underneath the Sphinx. I don't understand why Coastal Ruins is winning. It's nothing more but a hub area. :o
A very pretty one, yes, and the Egyptian Adventure is fun, but still...

Seth94
02-09-11, 21:02
My picks:

*Obelisk of Khamoon
*Coastal Ruins (this pick I didn't really care about)
*Crash Site
*Venice
*Lost Valley
*Galleries under Siege
*Colosseum
*Archaeological Dig (this pick I didn't really care about either)

We only agreed on one this time, and that was for Obelisk of Khamoon. :p

Disappointed that Antarctica is losing by so much. Imo it was one of the best levels of TR3. :)

aidanmalone
02-09-11, 21:03
I couldnt decide between Colosseum and The Great Pyramid :p
So the 2nd choice ended up being ticket :D

sheepman23
02-09-11, 21:52
I couldnt decide between Colosseum and The Great Pyramid :p
So the 2nd choice ended up being ticket :D

That was a tough one as well, but I ended up going with Colosseum since it's a lot more memorable for me. :tmb:

Blackmoor
02-09-11, 22:16
We only agreed on one this time, and that was for Obelisk of Khamoon. :p

Disappointed that Antarctica is losing by so much. Imo it was one of the best levels of TR3. :)
Hehe, well some of that I can understand, lots of these levels are very good indeed (and I know you have a thing for TR5 :whi:, so you were bound to pick Gallows :p). But you picked bio-research facility over Crash Site :eek:, I'm surprised.

Antarctica I like when I play TR3 because it's so white and snowy after all those colourful lush levels of India, Arizona and the Pacific Islands. I don't think it's one of the best of TR3 though, my favourites are Thames Wharf & Aldwych, Arizona and Madabu Gorge. And put up against Venice... For me, Venice is one of those areas (incl. the Opera House & Wreck of the Maria Dora) that I would pay good money for to see upgraded and re-imagined, a bit like TR:A. Both Antarctica and Venice are really good levels though. :)

Seth94
02-09-11, 22:20
Hehe, well some of that I can understand, lots of these levels are very good indeed (and I know you have a thing for TR5 :whi:, so you were bound to pick Gallows :p). But you picked bio-research facility over Crash Site :eek:, I'm surprised.


Lol, TR5 is my least favourite of Core's TR games. And imo Gallows Tree is a boring level, which explains why I picked Obelisk of Khamoon. :p

Blackmoor
02-09-11, 22:47
Lol, TR5 is my least favourite of Core's TR games. And imo Gallows Tree is a boring level, which explains why I picked Obelisk of Khamoon. :pGod, I read your post and still somehow thought you'd picked Gallows, lol. :o :D

And, why do I have it in my head that you like TR5? :confused: I'm going mad, or... are you sure you've never voted for a single TR5 level in this tournament?!! :pi: :p

Seth94
02-09-11, 22:58
I voted for the VCI levels. But imo the other sections of TR5 are rather boring. The VCI section is excellent though. :tmb:

Blackmoor
02-09-11, 23:05
I voted for the VCI levels. But imo the other sections of TR5 are rather boring. The VCI section is excellent though. :tmb:Ah...yes, see, I knew you were a closet TR5-er really! Don't you try pretending with me again. :p

:D

Seth94
02-09-11, 23:08
Haha lol. :D

sheepman23
02-09-11, 23:10
You know what's kind of shocking? At this point in the tournament, there are only 3 Chronicles levels remaining - Gallows Tree, Labyrinth, and Escape With the Iris. GT is probably going to lose in this poll, and the latter two are in the next quarter. By the end of this round, we may have eliminated every level from Chronicles.

Chronicles certainly isn't the best game of the series, but I don't think it's one of the worst. Kind of sad that so many of its levels have already been canned. :(

Blackmoor
02-09-11, 23:16
You know what's kind of shocking? At this point in the tournament, there are only 3 Chronicles levels remaining - Gallows Tree, Labyrinth, and Escape With the Iris. GT is probably going to lose in this poll, and the latter two are in the next quarter. By the end of this round, we may have eliminated every level from Chronicles.

Chronicles certainly isn't the best game of the series, but I don't think it's one of the worst. Kind of sad that so many of its levels have already been canned. :(All joking aside, I don't think TR5 is BAD, but it is my least favourite TR. The levels don't compare to some of the others out there and so personally I'm not surprised it is dropping by the wayside.

I expect quite a few AoD levels to topple also, and quite a few of TR4's - not because TR4 is a poor game, but it's levels aren't as distinctive as some of the other games. I have trouble sometimes remembering what they are from the titles - eg, Under the Sphinx. I had to look it up! :eek: And this is a TR game I played trillions of times, equally as much as TR1, TR2 and TR3, and I can remember all of the levels from these games just from the title names.

sheepman23
02-09-11, 23:26
All joking aside, I don't think TR5 is BAD, but it is my least favourite TR. The levels don't compare to some of the others out there and so personally I'm not surprised it is dropping by the wayside.

TR5 is kind of an odd situation for me. Rome and Russia are rather boring, and none of the levels truly stick out, but Ireland and VCI Tech is the exact opposite - several memorable moments, and some incredibly exciting levels with VCI Tech. :D So IMO, Gallows Tree, Old Mill, The 13th Floor, Escape With the Iris, and Red Alert! should've all made it further... but eh, whatever. :p

I expect quite a few AoD levels to topple also, and quite a few of TR4's - not because TR4 is a poor game, but it's levels aren't as distinctive as some of the other games. I have trouble sometimes remembering what they are from the titles - eg, Under the Sphinx. I had to look it up! :eek: And this is a TR game I played trillions of times, equally as much as TR1, TR2 and TR3, and I can remember all of the levels from these games just from the title names.

I agree. There are definitely some distinctive levels in both TRLR and AoD, but a lot of them I have trouble remembering because they're either very short, or not interesting at all.

I predict that the Finals will be levels from TR1, 2, or 3. There are some phenomenal ones in TRLR, as well as a few gems in AoD, but IMO the classic trilogy is going to come out on top here (IMO, it IS the best set of games in the series :tmb:).

Seth94
02-09-11, 23:30
Imo all of the levels in AOD were great, but there weren't really any 10/10 amazing levels, except for maybe Strahov Fortress and Bio-Research Facility. But in TR2 and 3, there are great levels that really standout for me. Temple of Xian, Tibetan Foothills and Lost City of Tinnos are examples of this. :)

xLara_Nathanx
02-09-11, 23:31
Galleries under siege is, for me, the best in the list D:.

sheepman23
03-09-11, 13:03
Voting ends tomorrow. :D

Seth94
03-09-11, 13:05
The next poll is the last of round 2 isn't it? After that the matchups will start to become more difficult. :)

sheepman23
03-09-11, 13:40
Yup. :D If I'm correct, there are only 6 or 7 more polls after this one - so things are really winding down. :tmb:

Ward Dragon
03-09-11, 20:06
All joking aside, I don't think TR5 is BAD, but it is my least favourite TR. The levels don't compare to some of the others out there and so personally I'm not surprised it is dropping by the wayside.

I pretty much agree with this, except I love the Ireland levels. They were so unique compared to anything else in the series due to the atmosphere and the focus on puzzles and exploration with no combat. I'm sad that the Ireland levels probably won't make it to the next round :(

Johnnay
03-09-11, 20:37
When's the next round coming up:)

Blackmoor
03-09-11, 20:38
I pretty much agree with this, except I love the Ireland levels. They were so unique compared to anything else in the series due to the atmosphere and the focus on puzzles and exploration with no combat. I'm sad that the Ireland levels probably won't make it to the next round :(If I'm honest, the main thing that put me off that bit of the game was the priest. There was something not quite right that I can't put my finger on, especially because it's ages since I last played TR5. And there was little Lara who I'm not keen on. I liked the spooky angle but in places it felt too overplayed for such a short section - it would have been better if a whole game had been based on unraveling that island.

Seth94
03-09-11, 20:58
I pretty much agree with this, except I love the Ireland levels. They were so unique compared to anything else in the series due to the atmosphere and the focus on puzzles and exploration with no combat. I'm sad that the Ireland levels probably won't make it to the next round :(

I agree that the atmosphere was great, but I disagree about the puzzles and gameplay. Imo that's why the Ireland section wasn't as good. The gameplay just seemed really boring and repetitive, compared to sections like VCI for example. :)

Ward Dragon
03-09-11, 20:59
If I'm honest, the main thing that put me off that bit of the game was the priest. There was something not quite right that I can't put my finger on, especially because it's ages since I last played TR5. And there was little Lara who I'm not keen on. I liked the spooky angle but in places it felt too overplayed for such a short section - it would have been better if a whole game had been based on unraveling that island.

I just ignore the cutscenes in the Ireland levels and pretend they don't exist :p Between the creepy dialogue and little Lara nearly flashing the screen, I want to erase the cutscenes from my memory XD

I agree it would have been cooler as a whole game :D But even as simply a few levels, I loved the gameplay and atmosphere.

I agree that the atmosphere was great, but I disagree about the puzzles and gameplay. Imo that's why the Ireland section wasn't as good. The gameplay just seemed really boring and repetitive, compared to sections like VCI for example. :)

I actually really hated VCI because I thought VCI was boring and repetitive XD

Seth94
03-09-11, 21:02
I actually really hated VCI because I thought VCI was boring and repetitive XD

I thought it was a good change from the first three sections of the game. At least in the VCI section there was a good variety of puzzles, as well as the fact that it was much more difficult than the previous sections, which were all too easy imo. ;)

Blackmoor
03-09-11, 21:05
I just ignore the cutscenes in the Ireland levels and pretend they don't exist :p Between the creepy dialogue and little Lara nearly flashing the screen, I want to erase the cutscenes from my memory XD :vlol: Yes, I knew I was remembering correctly... Core's lowest point I fear. ;)

Ward Dragon
03-09-11, 21:10
I thought it was a good change from the first three sections of the game. At least in the VCI section there was a good variety of puzzles, as well as the fact that it was much more difficult than the previous sections, which were all too easy imo. ;)

What puzzles? I really don't remember anything I would class as a puzzle. Also I've never liked exceedingly difficult sections, and VCI was buggy as all hell for me (at least the last level was) so it was a real chore to get through it without triggering any of the game-breaking bugs.

:vlol: Yes, I knew I was remembering correctly... Core's lowest point I fear. ;)

I also thought the TR4 little Lara levels with Von Croy had really creepy dialogue too, and one time I jumped to a monkey-swing before I was supposed to and Lara and Von Croy got tangled up into one person while swinging across :vlol:

Seth94
03-09-11, 21:14
What puzzles? I really don't remember anything I would class as a puzzle. Also I've never liked exceedingly difficult sections, and VCI was buggy as all hell for me (at least the last level was) so it was a real chore to get through it without triggering any of the game-breaking bugs.


I'd consider defeating the androids as puzzles. More or less the whole of the second level involves puzzles. :p And I didn't get any bugs in the last level, so I can't comment on that. :)

peeves
03-09-11, 23:13
The dialogues were annoying in TR4 with von croy and young lara. I skip them.

TRexbait
03-09-11, 23:27
Umm... would anybody care to explain the appeal of Coastal Ruins (a hub level with only that little "Egyptian Adventure") over that of Underneath the Sphinx (a level with a great deal of puzzles, traps, etc). :confused:

Seth94
04-09-11, 00:08
Umm... would anybody care to explain the appeal of Coastal Ruins (a hub level with only that little "Egyptian Adventure") over that of Underneath the Sphinx (a level with a great deal of puzzles, traps, etc). :confused:

I agree. Underneath the Sphinx was a great level. The gameplay and dark atmosphere was excellent throughout. :tmb:

I'm surprised by quite a lot of the results tbh. Especially Antarctica losing to Venice. And there aren't really any close matchups so far either, so the results will probably stay like this. :)

Ward Dragon
04-09-11, 00:13
I agree. Underneath the Sphinx was a great level. The gameplay and dark atmosphere was excellent throughout. :tmb:

I'm surprised by quite a lot of the results tbh. Especially Antarctica losing to Venice. And there aren't really any close matchups so far either, so the results will probably stay like this. :)

Venice is just one of those levels that is very memorable for a lot of people due to being unique. It stands out from most of the other levels in the series because there isn't anything else quite like it.

Seth94
04-09-11, 00:15
Venice is just one of those levels that is very memorable for a lot of people due to being unique. It stands out from most of the other levels in the series because there isn't anything else quite like it.

Really? It was one of my least favourite levels in TR2. I found it very similar to Bartoli's Hideout. I thought both levels were fun, but they were just full of combat and not much else. :)

Ward Dragon
04-09-11, 00:19
Really? It was one of my least favourite levels in TR2. I found it very similar to Bartoli's Hideout. I thought both levels were fun, but they were just full of combat and not much else. :)

Jumping across rooftop awnings over a partially sunken city and racing a motorboat through the canals :D

Seth94
04-09-11, 00:20
Jumping across rooftop awnings over a partially sunken city and racing a motorboat through the canals :D

Ok I agree that there were some other bits of gameplay, but not of the quality of Antarctica. :p I meant that most of the Venice levels were just combat, and not much else. :)

Ward Dragon
04-09-11, 00:23
Ok I agree that there were some other bits of gameplay, but not of the quality of Antarctica. :p I meant that most of the Venice levels were just combat, and not much else. :)

What did Antarctica have that you like so much? I mainly remember the hypothermia meter, the orange boat, and getting my MP5 back after the bastards in Nevada stole it from me XD

Seth94
04-09-11, 00:26
What did Antarctica have that you like so much? I mainly remember the hypothermia meter, the orange boat, and getting my MP5 back after the bastards in Nevada stole it from me XD

Don't you already get the MP5 in Area 51? :p

And I just liked the fact that you explore the ship, as well as driving the rubber boat, running around the huts, etc. I just found it to be better than the Venice levels. :)

sheepman23
04-09-11, 00:27
I pretty much agree with this, except I love the Ireland levels. They were so unique compared to anything else in the series due to the atmosphere and the focus on puzzles and exploration with no combat. I'm sad that the Ireland levels probably won't make it to the next round :(

Yup, me too. :( The atmosphere is unlike anything else in the series, and although the puzzles were simple, I really liked them. :) As a mini-story, it also felt very cool and compact. :tmb:

What puzzles? I really don't remember anything I would class as a puzzle. Also I've never liked exceedingly difficult sections, and VCI was buggy as all hell for me (at least the last level was) so it was a real chore to get through it without triggering any of the game-breaking bugs.

I would say that getting past any of the difficult traps counts as a puzzle of sorts. :p There's also the x-ray room in Escape With the Iris - in fact, that level feels like a huge puzzle itself with Lara losing her weapons at the beginning (easily one of the best ideas of the series :tmb:). Also, the shooting ranges, getting past the invisible lasers, and the cyborgs in VCI Tech.

I've heard about tons of bugs in the VCI levels, although I've never encountered a one of them. :confused:

Umm... would anybody care to explain the appeal of Coastal Ruins (a hub level with only that little "Egyptian Adventure") over that of Underneath the Sphinx (a level with a great deal of puzzles, traps, etc). :confused:

Not really sure - Coastal Ruins also includes that godawful puzzle of getting into the Catacombs level, via the horrendous amount of loading screens, and the crawlspace that you have to climb into, turn around, and lower Lara out of. XD It is a rather beautiful level, though. :)

Venice is just one of those levels that is very memorable for a lot of people due to being unique. It stands out from most of the other levels in the series because there isn't anything else quite like it.

Although Venice is one of my least favorite levels of TR2 (even still I really like it :D), it easily stands out among the game, and the series for that matter. I agree, it's rather unique and where else have we gotten a derelict city filled with waterways, a speedboat, and jumping on awnings? :jmp: Although I personally prefer Bartoli's Hideout. :tmb:

Ward Dragon
04-09-11, 00:33
Don't you already get the MP5 in Area 51? :p

And I just liked the fact that you explore the ship, as well as driving the rubber boat, running around the huts, etc. I just found it to be better than the Venice levels. :)

Well, the first time I played the game I did South Pacific first and got the MP5 (<3). Then I did Nevada, had my weapons taken away, and missed the secret room where I could have gotten the MP5 back. So I was depressed all through London because the MP5 was my favorite weapon and I missed it, then I got it back in Antarctica :p

I've heard about tons of bugs in the VCI levels, although I've never encountered a one of them. :confused:

I guess I was particularly unlucky because I think I hit them all XD I saved in the room with the hanging electrical cables which turned off the electricity and made it impossible to kill the android and get his key (at least I think that was how it screwed me over). I had the other android refuse to follow me into the gas chamber. I think I had a few crashes in the sequence with the helicopter chasing me, and I feel like there was more but I haven't played the game in a few years so I can't remember them clearly.

sheepman23
04-09-11, 00:37
I guess I was particularly unlucky because I think I hit them all XD I saved in the room with the hanging electrical cables which turned off the electricity and made it impossible to kill the android and get his key (at least I think that was how it screwed me over). I had the other android refuse to follow me into the gas chamber. I think I had a few crashes in the sequence with the helicopter chasing me, and I feel like there was more but I haven't played the game in a few years so I can't remember them clearly.

Ah, I see - the horror stories I hear from Red Alert! never cease to amaze me. :vlol: That must not have been a very fun experience (I'm guessing it was your first playthrough?). :( Kind of reminds me of my entire journey through AoD the first time, I ran into so many bugs that made me reload constantly. And even then, some of them didn't disappear. XD

Seth94
04-09-11, 00:38
Well, the first time I played the game I did South Pacific first and got the MP5 (<3). Then I did Nevada, had my weapons taken away, and missed the secret room where I could have gotten the MP5 back. So I was depressed all through London because the MP5 was my favorite weapon and I missed it, then I got it back in Antarctica :p


Oh I see lol. :p

The MP5 is also my favourite TR3 weapon, which is why I always play the Nevada section first. :)

Ward Dragon
04-09-11, 00:39
Ah, I see - the horror stories I hear from Red Alert! never cease to amaze me. :vlol: That must not have been a very fun experience (I'm guessing it was your first playthrough?). :( Kind of reminds me of my entire journey through AoD the first time, I ran into so many bugs that made me reload constantly. And even then, some of them didn't disappear. XD

Yeah, it was my first play-through. I ended up having to load a save from the start of the level and then go through following the walk-through step-by-step to avoid repeating the bugs I had experienced at first :(

Oh I see lol. :p

The MP5 is also my favourite TR3 weapon, which is why I always play the Nevada section first. :)

I do that now, but I didn't know any better my first time through :p

sheepman23
04-09-11, 00:46
Oh I see lol. :p

The MP5 is also my favourite TR3 weapon, which is why I always play the Nevada section first. :)

See, I was aware of the big secret of Nevada on my first run through TR3, so I never encountered any difficulties with weapons, ammo, medipacks, etc. when moving on to later sections and Antarctica. But now, I like to play through the game in an order where Nevada isn't first. I think that next time I play, I'll go London, Nevada, South Pacific, so that I can save my favorite section of the game for last (South Pacific :tmb:).

Seth94
04-09-11, 00:49
See, I was aware of the big secret of Nevada on my first run through TR3, so I never encountered any difficulties with weapons, ammo, medipacks, etc. when moving on to later sections and Antarctica. But now, I like to play through the game in an order where Nevada isn't first. I think that next time I play, I'll go London, Nevada, South Pacific, so that I can save my favorite section of the game for last (South Pacific :tmb:).

I've never had a problem with lack of ammo in TR3, but I just prefer to have more when I play Antarctica, (my favourite section of TR3 as you probably already know, :p), which is why I like to play Nevada first. :)

Dark Wiseman
04-09-11, 06:47
Only difficult ones for me this time were "Coastal Ruins" versus "Underneath the Sphinx" and "Venice" versus "Antarctica". Especially the second two, considering I really like both.

Ward Dragon
04-09-11, 15:55
The results are fairly decisive, so I'll make the next poll now instead of waiting another few hours :)