View Full Version : Grey Wolf: The Escape of Adolf Hitler
So most of us have been taught in history class that Hitler commited suicide together with his wife Eva Braun in some bunker in Berlin, on the 30th of April 1945, right? I know there has always been some speculation about this, alternative theories... as usual in cases like this. But 2 British journalists have recently published a book (see thread title), in which they claim to have strong evidence that Hitler and his wife actually fled Berlin in 1945, and that he died much later in Argentina!
I thought it was interesting, I looked for a news article about it in English and found this so you can read a bit more about it: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/book-claims-hitler-died-argentina-141249165.html
Nazi leader Adolf Hitler did not kill himself in Berlin in 1945 but ended his days in Argentina, a new book has claimed.
British journalist Gerrard Williams has told Sky News he and co-author Simon Dunstan found an "overwhelming amount of evidence" to suggest Hitler died an old man in South America.
Many historians say the Nazi leader died in his Berlin bunker in 1945 - but Williams claims their research, looking at newly de-classified documents and forensic tests, challenges this.
"We didn't want to re-write history, but the evidence we've discovered about the escape of Adolf Hitler is just too overwhelming to ignore," he said.
"There is no forensic evidence for his, or Eva Braun's deaths, and the stories from the eyewitnesses to their continued survival in Argentina are compelling."
I think it could be likely, but I haven't read the book yet so I don't know what this strong evidence exactly entails. What do you think?
Maybe someone who did check the book out or has devoted more time into researching can share their opinion/thoughts? I'm feeling a bit ignorant on the subject. XD
(No I'm totally not advertising for this book lol. :p)
patriots88888
18-10-11, 21:33
All I'm curious about is why Argentina was such a popular destination for so many of the fleeing Nazis during the final weeks/days of WWII? What made that country so attractive?
I'm no historian, so I can't comment on the details, but I'm rather skeptical. Emigrating to Argentina does not fit with Hitler's other actions when it became clear even to him that the war was lost. For example, he staid in Berlin despite the rapidly advancing soviet army and even though he still had time to leave the city for something safer - or in fact for Argentina straight away. He issued the Nero Decree, which more or less ordered the entire country of germany to commit suicide, because in his ideology, the "german race" had lost its right to live because it failed to win against the "inferior slavs". He was a madman, fully convinced of his own ideology and importance. I really don't think that it's realistic to believe that he would just shrug, say "You know, it was just an idea" and then quietly leave.
What made that country so attractive?
Meat?:p
Maybe because is a big country with few population.
Sure they,ll sell a lot of books.
I,m a bit skeptical on this, too. I don,t know.
The film Grey Wolf is currently in production and is expected to be released in January
Lol
^
I know, haha. Cha-ching! :p
All I'm curious about is why Argentina was such a popular destination for so many of the fleeing Nazis during the final weeks/days of WWII? What made that country so attractive?
I think it's because the government of Argentina at the time was pro-Nazi (I think it was Peron who was pulling the ropes at the time) and offered them asylum.
I'm no historian, so I can't comment on the details, but I'm rather skeptical. Emigrating to Argentina does not fit with Hitler's other actions when it became clear even to him that the war was lost. For example, he staid in Berlin despite the rapidly advancing soviet army and even though he still had time to leave the city for something safer - or in fact for Argentina straight away. He issued the Nero Decree, which more or less ordered the entire country of germany to commit suicide, because in his ideology, the "german race" had lost its right to live because it failed to win against the "inferior slavs". He was a madman, fully convinced of his own ideology and importance. I really don't think that it's realistic to believe that he would just shrug, say "You know, it was just an idea" and then quietly leave.
You have some good points, thanks. I agree that it wouldn't make much sense... but I also think that when it really comes down to it, ideology can make place for cowardice and people can do things that nobody expected them to do... :o
patriots88888
18-10-11, 21:53
I think it's because the government of Argentina at the time was pro-Nazi (I think it was Peron who was pulling the ropes at the time) and offered them asylum.
I wasn't aware of that, and that most certainly would make sense. Thank you! :)
Elaborating on what Cochrane said, it wasn't really in Hitler's psychological makeup to flee somewhere. He was a madman who had an obsession with survival of the fittest. He said near the end of the war that Germany should now belong to the "strong peoples of the east". With all this in mind, I expect in his final days he probably felt it was his duty to kill himself, as he couldn't bare to live in a world without National Socialism.
Conventional logic also goes against this theory as well. That said, it's certainly plausible that thousands of other high ranking Nazi and SS officials managed to flee to Argentina.
The Great Chi
18-10-11, 22:08
Argentina at the time had a large contingent of germans living/working there, before and during the war, so the escape route for many Nazis was to South America.
I don't think Adolf himself bothered to escape due to being a fanatical nutter who could not belive his own downfall, but a lot of high ranking Nazis did go to South America, along with a lot of the loot (gold, art treasures, etc) taken during WW2.
The Jews went all out for years to get these Nazi's after WW2, searching around the world, to get revenge or justice.
CONSPIRICIES....
While we are on the subject of escaped Nazi's, many conspiricy theories go futher to say that a lot of Nazis escaped to secret underground lairs in Antartica, or even a more far fetched solution, by traveling to secret moon bases (of course that would have required Nazi spaceships).
Is just curious that time to time these stories about Hitler appear.
How does he scape from Berlin? In a Zeppelin?:confused:
The Great Chi
18-10-11, 22:21
Is just curious that time to time these stories about Hitler appear.
How does he escape from Berlin? In a Zeppelin?:confused::vlol:
Even if he did escape, he was born in 1889, so he would be long dead by now. So why worry :D
I wasn't aware of that, and that most certainly would make sense. Thank you! :)
No problem! :D
Elaborating on what Cochrane said, it wasn't really in Hitler's psychological makeup to flee somewhere. He was a madman who had an obsession with survival of the fittest. He said near the end of the war that Germany should now belong to the "strong peoples of the east". With all this in mind, I expect in his final days he probably felt it was his duty to kill himself, as he couldn't bare to live in a world without National Socialism.
Conventional logic also goes against this theory as well. That said, it's certainly plausible that thousands of other high ranking Nazi and SS officials managed to flee to Argentina.
Yes, it does not make a lot of sense, and that's probably the main reason why the suicide theory has always been accepted as the 'true' one. Still, it could be... I don't know what to believe at the moment. :p
Argentina at the time had a large contingent of germans living/working there, before and during the war, so the escape route for many Nazis was to South America.
I don't think Adolf himself bothered to escape due to being a fanatical nutter who could not belive his own downfall, but a lot of high ranking Nazis did go to South America, along with a lot of the loot (gold, art treasures, etc) taken during WW2.
The Jews went all out for years to get these Nazi's after WW2, searching around the world, to get revenge or justice.
CONSPIRICIES....
While we are on the subject of escaped Nazi's, many conspiricy theories go futher to say that a lot of Nazis escaped to secret underground lairs in Antartica, or even a more far fetched solution, by traveling to secret moon bases (of course that would have required Nazi spaceships).
Nazi spaceships! Never heard that one before! :tea:
Is just curious that time to time these stories about Hitler appear.
How does he scape from Berlin? In a Zeppelin?:confused:
Well, apparently they left the bunker through some underground tunnel system and then they were taken to Denmark with a small plane, and from there to Spain and from there eventually to Argentina (in another plane obviously XD). If I understood it correctly that is. :o
Yeah, the old Trick of a underground tunnel never found.
Well, sure we will heard more on this.
The Great Chi
18-10-11, 22:45
Nazi spaceships! Never heard that one before! :tea:....Yeh, it sounds crazy, but it was based on the Nazi's perfecting 'flying saucer' technology near the end of the war, then using this transportation to create a moon base with slave labour.
You will find such stories on the internet, but if there were such secret bases, I would believe more in an Antartica base using U-boat submarines.
Yes, it does not make a lot of sense, and that's probably the main reason why the suicide theory has always been accepted as the 'true' one. Still, it could be... I don't know what to believe at the moment. :pThat and the fact that witnesses who were in the bunker can back that up. Also, there's no way Hitler would be able to get out of Berlin (which was encircled by the Red Army at the time) and slip through the Allied lines.
Lara's Nemesis
19-10-11, 00:56
I'm sure there must have been an escape plan, whether he took it we will never really know.
I personally think he died in the bunker.
Does it really matter now anyway? Hitler and his stinking nazis have already done their damage. And as far as I know there's no possible way to go back in time and change it.
Lara's Nemesis
19-10-11, 04:34
Does it really matter now anyway? Hitler and his stinking nazis have already done their damage. And as far as I know there's no possible way to go back in time and change it.
Yeah but people still go on about Jesus, that was a long time ago as well. As long as we're talking shelf life here.....
Just kidding :p, that is a Bill Hicks quote but it is kind of relevant to what you are saying.
Historically-based fanfiction is what this is.
Although, it sounds like a good read.
Yeah but people still go on about Jesus, that was a long time ago as well. As long as we're talking shelf life here.....
Just kidding :p, that is a Bill Hicks quote but it is kind of relevant to what you are saying.
Bill Hicks had no idea about alternate realities parallel universes and stuff.
interstellardave
19-10-11, 19:56
The fascination with, and fear of, Hitler amazes me. Meanwhile Stalin--a mass murdering madman in his own right--sat at Yalta with western leaders like they were all good friends. His butchery is rarely discussed in the West, however.
The fascination with, and fear of, Hitler amazes me. Meanwhile Stalin--a mass murdering madman in his own right--sat at Yalta with western leaders like they were all good friends. His butchery is rarely discussed in the West, however.While I completely agree that Stalin was almost as bad if not just as bad as Hitler, this thread is about Hitler, so of course people aren't going to be discussing Stalin.
interstellardave
20-10-11, 00:02
While I completely agree that Stalin was almost as bad if not just as bad as Hitler, this thread is about Hitler, so of course people aren't going to be discussing Stalin.
Yes, in this topic, it is not going to be the main point of discussion... but that's kind of my point. The sensitivity regarding Hitler and the Nazis, even today, is so high. Yet Stalin was responsible for nearly twice as many deaths as a result of his many "purges". It simply amazes me that it goes (in relation to Hitler, at least) almost unnoticed.
SIDE NOTE: Mao Tse-Tung is credited with killing 70 million people... a total which, even if inflated somewhat, puts him leagues ahead of Hitler and Stalin!
ON TOPIC: My point about the fear associated with Hitler was actually my on-topic observation, although I went to Stalin as a comparison. I think that that fear has caused people to worry that he didn't really die... and that he might live on somewhere, like a real life "boogie man". The evidence I've heard and read about makes me believe that he died in that bunker... it was post war Jewish paranoia (understandable) that has kept him alive.
Meanwhile Stalin--a mass murdering madman in his own right--sat at Yalta with western leaders like they were all good friends. His butchery is rarely discussed in the West, however.
If you don't discuss it it doesn't mean that others don't. Nobody ever said that Stalin was better than Hitler. He even signed a pact with Hitler, which already shows who he was.
How they can be so sure?! lol!
I was remember by last years, find his skull and destroy it later on Russia (maybe) I think, but at 2009 some said by DNA test his skull belonged to a woman?!
So maybe his escape story was true but not to another country beside Germany, however he was jingoism to his country and I don't think so he even leave Germany on end of war.
it was post war Jewish paranoia (understandable) that has kept him alive.Since when was the Hitler is alive conspiracy theories a Jewish thing?
Yes, in this topic, it is not going to be the main point of discussion... but that's kind of my point. The sensitivity regarding Hitler and the Nazis, even today, is so high. Yet Stalin was responsible for nearly twice as many deaths as a result of his many "purges". It simply amazes me that it goes (in relation to Hitler, at least) almost unnoticed.
Part of the problem is probably that there was never a big "get over Stalin" operation. While nobody liked him, he was an ally during the second world war, which meant he was never that openly criticized and analyzed in the west. In the soviet union itself, the party did say they weren't happy with all that he had done, but instead of bigger investigations or the like, they mostly tried to hide the fact that the soviet union had any history between the 1920s and the 1950s at all (except for the second world war, of course). Due to this, Stalin never managed to get the bad public image that he clearly deserved.
SIDE NOTE: Mao Tse-Tung is credited with killing 70 million people... a total which, even if inflated somewhat, puts him leagues ahead of Hitler and Stalin!
Lots of those were due to the "Great Leap Ahead" and the following famines, though. I don't think that can count as intentional, compared to Stalin and Hitler.
ON TOPIC: My point about the fear associated with Hitler was actually my on-topic observation, although I went to Stalin as a comparison. I think that that fear has caused people to worry that he didn't really die... and that he might live on somewhere, like a real life "boogie man". The evidence I've heard and read about makes me believe that he died in that bunker... it was post war Jewish paranoia (understandable) that has kept him alive.
I think an important part is simply that Nazi propaganda worked pretty well, among the germans but also among the allies. Especially in the final phase of the war, it focused heavily on super-secret projects that would turn it all around at the last minute, the "wonder weapons". Germany never had the resources to fully develop, let alone produce these things before the end of the war, but the idea that there are some huge Nazi secrets stuck around. There are still people who believe in Nazi moon bases and flying saucers. In the light of all this, the idea that the Nazis also smuggled Hitler out of the country in their secret flying machines or similar does not sound too weird.
In reality, of course, that is completely ignoring the economical situation of Germany at the time and Hitler's personal psychology and ideology.
Hmm, intriguing sounding idea. However, isn't Hitler one of those faces that anyone would spot? I mean how would they have kept hidden? Even with plastic surgery, unless it was complete mutilation, I have a feeling you would still through it. His face, even now, is known everywhere...
Still, I will maybe check this book out. lol. :D
The Great Chi
20-10-11, 17:12
ON TOPIC: My point about the fear associated with Hitler was actually my on-topic observation..Why the fear is always associated with Hitler, is due to Fascism and Dictatorship.
Fascism is a radical authoritarian nationalist political ideology, which Hitler turned into reality, in Nazi Germany.
We in the West always want Democracy, so fear both Fascism and Communism, which opposes democracy.
The reason during the war we did not fear communism so much, was that Russia was an ally at the time, but once Hitler was defeated, Communism was the next big fear in the West.
Hence the Cold War.
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