Blackmoor
09-12-11, 19:03
Yes, no or maybe.
Whatever you think, please give your reasons why.
:)
PS: !! Please try to remember this is the debate thread and put some "meat" in your reply, not just yes or no because I think it's fab or gross, respectively...
:cool:
Edit: To give this post a bit more context - here's something that got me thinking.
It’s a matter of concern when we live in a society that punishes people, sometimes very savagely, for drug use: it makes it a difficult subject to be open on. It’s important to be open on it otherwise we can never have a clear and honest discussion.
Looking at the broad expanse of history, what I see in the western civilisations has been
a gradual trend over hundreds and thousands of years towards increased individual
freedom, towards removing the unreasonable power of the state to intervene in our lives.
This seems to be the direction, except in one area where we’ve gone back rather than
forwards in the last 40 years: the personal, individual use of drugs. It seems to me that if
we are not sovereign over our own consciousness then we can’t meaningfully claim to
be sovereign over anything. It’s useless – a complete waste of time – to indulge
ourselves in all sorts of self congratulation about how free we are, about how our
democracies are a model of freedom when we are prepared to send people to prison
for exploring that most intimate, that most precious, most sapient part of themselves
which is their own consciousness.
I feel that the war on drugs, the persecution of individuals for exploring their own
consciousness with drugs, has set in motion a huge reverse in the true direction of
western history, has pushed us away from the quest for individual freedom and into a
place where we are empowering the state to control the most personal aspect of our
lives, and I don’t think that can be good. I feel that it is a negative historical trend, and
we need to wake up and do something about this because the struggle for individual
freedom is perhaps the most important thing that western culture has given to the world.
We can’t just let that go now because of some ideological hatred of drugs.
First of all let me be clear that when I talk about the right to use drugs I am referring to
adults, I am not referring to children. I am quite persuaded by the research that indicates
that marijuana use, particularly heavy marijuana use, amongst teenagers can have
extremely detrimental effects, I think the evidence for that is quite compelling, and I
would not be urging or encouraging teenagers to smoke marijuana. Unfortunately at the
moment teenagers, especially, don’t believe the information that’s given about drugs: it’s
seen to be tainted and coming from a source that they do not trust and do not believe in.
I am not surprised that, despite the dangers to their health, huge numbers of teenagers
are continuing to smoke marijuana.
I would like to see an honest and open debate on the subject with full information
available to all members of the public. One of the reasons why I am convinced that full
honest information is the way to go is what’s happened with tobacco in our societies
over the last 20 years. In precisely the period that we have seen a dramatic escalation
in the use of almost all illegal drugs, we’ve seen a dramatic decline in the use of the
highly addictive legal drug called tobacco, and that decline has not come because
people have been sent to prison for using tobacco, it’s not come because their homes
have been broken into by agents of the state, it’s not come because there are draconian
laws that prevent the use of tobacco. The decline has come solely for one reason:
because people have believed the good information that has been put out there that has
shown them that tobacco use can be very bad for your health and they have made
choices not to use tobacco.
I believe the same level of information should be made available on drugs; as long as
those who take drugs are set in opposition against the state, feel themselves in danger
of attack and harassment by the state, see the state effectively as their enemy, they are
not going to believe what the state has to tell them. If it is true that certain drugs are
genuinely very harmful to our health, as we know is the case with tobacco, then it seems
obvious to me that we need to remove this whole subject from the issue of criminal
sanctions, and we have to throw it out to public common sense. We have to give people
information they can trust, and they will act on that information. For adults, if they choose
not to act on that information, that’s also their business, but the most important thing is
that the information should be there, it should be trusted, and it should be honest. We
have definitely seen the evidence where one harmful drug is concerned: when good
information is provided on tobacco it does result in a reduction of use.
So, talking about use of drugs by adults – I am in favour of restricting use to children, but
I think that will operate most effectively if children believe the information given to them
about drugs, which is not the case at the moment – I believe we are moving in a strange
direction which in a rather sinister manner is minimising adult responsibility. More and
more we find the state stepping in and presenting itself as taking responsibility for
decisions that we as adults should really be making for ourselves, and one of those
decisions is, as a responsible adult, whether to use drugs or not. I would guess that,
even in a regime where all drugs were completely legal, the vast majority of adults
would not partake. I think that would be their choice and I respect that choice, I think we
are talking about a minority interest here, but such statistics as are available do show
that it’s a substantial minority interest of the order of millions of people in Britain and tens
of millions in the US who are, as adults, interested in exploring their own consciousness
with drugs. The way the drug issue has been cast in our society up to now, particularly
by the media and politicians, is as a totally frivolous, worthless lightweight recreational
pursuit.
I personally don’t view the subject that way. If we use words like freedom, we have to
use them in their full meaning and, where adults are concerned, if we want to imagine
that we are free we have to imagine a society in which we are free to use drugs even if
they may be harmful to us: that has to be our choice. After all, our society already
accepts the principle that individuals may do things that are harmful to themselves – it’s
clear from the fact that we tolerate and keep completely legal the use of alcohol and
tobacco, both of which are known major health risks far more so than most illegal drugs.
But it’s not only that. We put young men into the army – when they join the army they’re
taking a job that may put their lives at risk, people go skiing, people go bungee jumping,
people jump out of aeroplanes for the excitement of so doing. Let’s not pretend that
that’s completely free of danger; there is risk in that adventure, and I would say – I’ve
never done it myself, but when somebody jumps out of an aeroplane I would imagine it
has an extraordinary effect on their consciousness. It must be a tremendous feeling.
Why else would so many people do it? They must get something special out of it, and
they’ve decided as adults that getting that special thing is worth the risk of jumping out of
that plane. I’m not going to go to them and say “Look, I know this is a really special
experience for you but it’s a bit dangerous, so I’m sorry, you’re not allowed to do it and
actually, if I catch you doing it I’m going to send you to prison.”
The interview is long, this is only a part of it. But I think it raises some extremely valid points.
Whatever you think, please give your reasons why.
:)
PS: !! Please try to remember this is the debate thread and put some "meat" in your reply, not just yes or no because I think it's fab or gross, respectively...
:cool:
Edit: To give this post a bit more context - here's something that got me thinking.
It’s a matter of concern when we live in a society that punishes people, sometimes very savagely, for drug use: it makes it a difficult subject to be open on. It’s important to be open on it otherwise we can never have a clear and honest discussion.
Looking at the broad expanse of history, what I see in the western civilisations has been
a gradual trend over hundreds and thousands of years towards increased individual
freedom, towards removing the unreasonable power of the state to intervene in our lives.
This seems to be the direction, except in one area where we’ve gone back rather than
forwards in the last 40 years: the personal, individual use of drugs. It seems to me that if
we are not sovereign over our own consciousness then we can’t meaningfully claim to
be sovereign over anything. It’s useless – a complete waste of time – to indulge
ourselves in all sorts of self congratulation about how free we are, about how our
democracies are a model of freedom when we are prepared to send people to prison
for exploring that most intimate, that most precious, most sapient part of themselves
which is their own consciousness.
I feel that the war on drugs, the persecution of individuals for exploring their own
consciousness with drugs, has set in motion a huge reverse in the true direction of
western history, has pushed us away from the quest for individual freedom and into a
place where we are empowering the state to control the most personal aspect of our
lives, and I don’t think that can be good. I feel that it is a negative historical trend, and
we need to wake up and do something about this because the struggle for individual
freedom is perhaps the most important thing that western culture has given to the world.
We can’t just let that go now because of some ideological hatred of drugs.
First of all let me be clear that when I talk about the right to use drugs I am referring to
adults, I am not referring to children. I am quite persuaded by the research that indicates
that marijuana use, particularly heavy marijuana use, amongst teenagers can have
extremely detrimental effects, I think the evidence for that is quite compelling, and I
would not be urging or encouraging teenagers to smoke marijuana. Unfortunately at the
moment teenagers, especially, don’t believe the information that’s given about drugs: it’s
seen to be tainted and coming from a source that they do not trust and do not believe in.
I am not surprised that, despite the dangers to their health, huge numbers of teenagers
are continuing to smoke marijuana.
I would like to see an honest and open debate on the subject with full information
available to all members of the public. One of the reasons why I am convinced that full
honest information is the way to go is what’s happened with tobacco in our societies
over the last 20 years. In precisely the period that we have seen a dramatic escalation
in the use of almost all illegal drugs, we’ve seen a dramatic decline in the use of the
highly addictive legal drug called tobacco, and that decline has not come because
people have been sent to prison for using tobacco, it’s not come because their homes
have been broken into by agents of the state, it’s not come because there are draconian
laws that prevent the use of tobacco. The decline has come solely for one reason:
because people have believed the good information that has been put out there that has
shown them that tobacco use can be very bad for your health and they have made
choices not to use tobacco.
I believe the same level of information should be made available on drugs; as long as
those who take drugs are set in opposition against the state, feel themselves in danger
of attack and harassment by the state, see the state effectively as their enemy, they are
not going to believe what the state has to tell them. If it is true that certain drugs are
genuinely very harmful to our health, as we know is the case with tobacco, then it seems
obvious to me that we need to remove this whole subject from the issue of criminal
sanctions, and we have to throw it out to public common sense. We have to give people
information they can trust, and they will act on that information. For adults, if they choose
not to act on that information, that’s also their business, but the most important thing is
that the information should be there, it should be trusted, and it should be honest. We
have definitely seen the evidence where one harmful drug is concerned: when good
information is provided on tobacco it does result in a reduction of use.
So, talking about use of drugs by adults – I am in favour of restricting use to children, but
I think that will operate most effectively if children believe the information given to them
about drugs, which is not the case at the moment – I believe we are moving in a strange
direction which in a rather sinister manner is minimising adult responsibility. More and
more we find the state stepping in and presenting itself as taking responsibility for
decisions that we as adults should really be making for ourselves, and one of those
decisions is, as a responsible adult, whether to use drugs or not. I would guess that,
even in a regime where all drugs were completely legal, the vast majority of adults
would not partake. I think that would be their choice and I respect that choice, I think we
are talking about a minority interest here, but such statistics as are available do show
that it’s a substantial minority interest of the order of millions of people in Britain and tens
of millions in the US who are, as adults, interested in exploring their own consciousness
with drugs. The way the drug issue has been cast in our society up to now, particularly
by the media and politicians, is as a totally frivolous, worthless lightweight recreational
pursuit.
I personally don’t view the subject that way. If we use words like freedom, we have to
use them in their full meaning and, where adults are concerned, if we want to imagine
that we are free we have to imagine a society in which we are free to use drugs even if
they may be harmful to us: that has to be our choice. After all, our society already
accepts the principle that individuals may do things that are harmful to themselves – it’s
clear from the fact that we tolerate and keep completely legal the use of alcohol and
tobacco, both of which are known major health risks far more so than most illegal drugs.
But it’s not only that. We put young men into the army – when they join the army they’re
taking a job that may put their lives at risk, people go skiing, people go bungee jumping,
people jump out of aeroplanes for the excitement of so doing. Let’s not pretend that
that’s completely free of danger; there is risk in that adventure, and I would say – I’ve
never done it myself, but when somebody jumps out of an aeroplane I would imagine it
has an extraordinary effect on their consciousness. It must be a tremendous feeling.
Why else would so many people do it? They must get something special out of it, and
they’ve decided as adults that getting that special thing is worth the risk of jumping out of
that plane. I’m not going to go to them and say “Look, I know this is a really special
experience for you but it’s a bit dangerous, so I’m sorry, you’re not allowed to do it and
actually, if I catch you doing it I’m going to send you to prison.”
The interview is long, this is only a part of it. But I think it raises some extremely valid points.