View Full Version : Caution on Twitter urged as Britons barred from US
tlr online
31-01-12, 12:30
Over the top much?
Holidaymakers have been warned to watch their words after two British friends were refused entry to the US on security grounds after a tweet.
Before his trip, Leigh Van Bryan wrote that he was going to "destroy America". He insisted he was referring to simply having a good time - but was sent home.
Trade association Abta told the BBC that the case highlighted that holidaymakers should never do anything to raise "concern or suspicion in any way"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16810312
Zelda master
31-01-12, 13:28
Well once again the old saying is true: Only in America...
^ Yeah only in America..
This is ridiculous, people say the most stupid things on the internet doesn't mean they are going to act on what they said.
The US Department for Homeland Security picked up Mr Bryan's messages ahead of his holiday in Los Angeles.
This is the part that surprises (and partially worries) me the most. I had no idea they had the resources to check the Twitter messages of all the people arriving in their airports! That must be a HUGE amount of work. I assume it must be computerised (if that's a word) where people's names are cross-checked with places like Twitter and then certain keywords will flag them, like 'bomb' and 'destroy'? Oh, well, that'll teach all the terrorists publically telling their friends of their devious schemes :pi: I'm sure they're catching a lot of baddies that way.
It's a bit scary how accessible everything on the internet is. :/
Since when would official bombers use sites like twitter to pass on their plans, or say what they intend to do?
I'd have thought a serious bomber would use a form of private communication, if one was to contact another. Or not even say anything if he/she was intending to blow up something alone :pi:
This is definitely OTT.
Right.. so just because I might have said something in the past on twitter or facebook about how I hate America and wish death to certain politicians there, I won't be granted access for a holiday? Just an example.
It would help to do some research on the person rather than just checking their tweets and denying access because of wordplay.
I understand that they need to take any threat seriously, but.. for real? Did the person actually carry any explosives on him? Did he have anything that could've caused problems?
TRULuverzz
31-01-12, 15:13
I think people do need to be careful what they say incase others take the the wrong way in that context. But still it was only a tweet :eek:
The paranoia in this country as far as the government is concerned is far out of step with the average American.
This is why Ron Paul needs to be elected, because this problem will only get worse to the point that we preemptively kill the rest of the world because of some Twits on Twitter.
I think people do need to be careful what they say incase others take the the wrong way in that context. But still it was only a tweet :eek:
I can understand the precaution, but I think alot of people would be denied acces over to the US because of random tweets or FB messages about SOPA/PIPA crap and how they want to kill whoever was behind those bills.
If I were in charge of the security, I would the very least search the person for explosives or if he has any contacts on the blacklist. If not, then I'd let him stay, but ask the hotel to keep track of his stay. No need to stalk further than that. Besides, why would he buy a return ticket if he wanted to bomb the **** out of America? Likely he wouldn't even return in that case.
I do think however that privacy on the Internet is gone when it comes to facebook, google + and twitter. It's cheaper than tagging every single person with a chip and keeping track of potential threats.
It's stupid that you can't express your mind without being stalked by the government.
What's more ironic is that school threats or mall shooting threats get ignored.
The Great Chi
31-01-12, 15:49
The paranoia in this country as far as the government is concerned is far out of step with the average American.
.Correct.
I thought the final straw was taking people's fingerprints to enter Disney theme parks in the US, which assume's that all tourists to this country are potential terrorists.
But this is THOUGHT POLICE stuff, straight out of ORWELLS 1984.
Its gone beyond paranoid now, and has reached the crazy realms.
Many 'truthers' like myself kept warning peope on the net since 911 to what is coming, some keep debunking and others worse by burying your head in the sand and assume a police state cannot happen, but its went by that stage now and is happening in front of us.
Ward Dragon
31-01-12, 16:13
Looks like my Twitter needs to die too now XD I haven't signed into it since Guardian of Light came out anyway (I found it very hard to keep track of things due to all the update spam that kept clogging my view of the latest tweets).
Many 'conspiracy theorists' like myself kept warning
Fixed for you ;)
This is kinda....... over the top really........ if people were barred entry for what they thought, noone would be allowed anywhere
This is just insane. Having to watch what we write on Twitter, perhaps the definition of being informal and just joking around on the web, in order to enjoy a safe vacation? I seriously hope that this does not become the new standard attitude. Nobody's denying that terrorism is bad, but measures like this don't help against terrorism. Actually, it helps the terrorists – their goal is to inconvenience us and deny us a free style of life, after all.
However, I do have my doubts whether this is proof that Ron Paul is a (or the only) good idea or that 9/11 was an inside job. But if we're playing "connect this to our favorite ideas", I'm sure I'll find some way to connect this to railroads. :D
Obama is all about increasing the negatives, Romney is Obama pretending to be a Republican, and Newt has morality issues. None of them are for making any real meaningful changes to anything, they aren't for ending any wars or not starting new ones, they aren't for reducing the deficit, they aren't for reducing the size and scope of government, they aren't for killing the Patriot Act or any of its evil spawn...
So that leaves only one: Ron Paul
He's right for America and the World.
Oh no!
"Boy have I got a surprise for you America...A Kinder surprise!" :mis:
But this does seem drastic.
I thought this thread was about an over-the-top reaction to a Tweet, not Ron Paul's presidential chances?
benjamin_2010
31-01-12, 17:32
The paranoia in this country as far as the government is concerned is far out of step with the average American.
This is why Ron Paul needs to be elected, because this problem will only get worse to the point that we preemptively kill the rest of the world because of some Twits on Twitter.
Sorry but I disagree with everything you wrote. I think America is insanely paranoid, always has been! Going back to the Cold War, people were genuinely scared of the Soviet "threat". Today, especially since 9/11, Americans have been suspicious of outsiders. I think as a country we are full of paranoid and anxious people, hell I'm one of them! I think this stems partly from government paranoia and a general air of suspicion, partly roused by the vindictive presence of unconfirmed media.
Also, what is Ron Paul going to do? Seriously? He's going to be the one who's going to fix this one problem? Is his campaign like based on this very matter or something? You're implying that somehow this is directly Barack Obama's fault, and that under a different president he wouldn't have been turned away. :confused:
lara c. fan
31-01-12, 17:34
To people saying "only in America"... Did you all forget the Robin Hood Airport scenario in 2010? :p
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-11736785
To people saying "only in America"... Did you all forget the Robin Hood Airport scenario in 2010? :p
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-11736785
I think the UK is the european country that is most like the US, at least when it comes to paranoia. Or to put it another way: "It also happened in Britain" does not mean that such insanity is widespread everywhere. :D
interstellardave
31-01-12, 17:42
To people saying "only in America"... Did you all forget the Robin Hood Airport scenario in 2010? :p
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-11736785
Didn't you know that all keyboards sold outside the US have a special "only in america" key? :p
That makes it easy for people to jump on the US for embarrassing things that no-one else wants to believe they do just as often. :p
Didn't you know that all keyboards sold outside the US have a special "only in america" key? :p
That makes it easy for people to jump on the US for embarrassing things that no-one else wants to believe they do just as often. :pAgreed. Makes me laugh when people (especially Brits) trot out that line. We're just as bad when it comes to things like this.
Just saw this and my initial reaction was "WHAT THE HELL?!" So out of order! :mad:
I thought this thread was about an over-the-top reaction to a Tweet, not Ron Paul's presidential chances?
You are the first bring up Ron Paul's presidential chances.
Sorry but I disagree with everything you wrote.
:)
I think America is insanely paranoid, always has been! Going back to the Cold War, people were genuinely scared of the Soviet "threat".
I wouldnt say that is entirely true, sure the government and media were scare mongering, that is what they do best. But the actual people themselves? Not so much afraid as annoyed and just tired.
Today, especially since 9/11, Americans have been suspicious of outsiders.
Well, yes and no. Certain areas, communities, and groups are, but in general? Not really.
I think as a country we are full of paranoid and anxious people, hell I'm one of them!
I would say that you perspective is colored by your own feelings. Paranoia projects.
I think this stems partly from government paranoia and a general air of suspicion, partly roused by the vindictive presence of unconfirmed media.
The government wants paranoia from the people, so they radiate it. The media feeds on this further dredging up feelings whether they are warranted or not.
Also, what is Ron Paul going to do? Seriously? He's going to be the one who's going to fix this one problem? Is his campaign like based on this very matter or something? You're implying that somehow this is directly Barack Obama's fault, and that under a different president he wouldn't have been turned away. :confused:
Obama deserves as much of the blame as anyone before him does. You either perpetuate the problem or you become part of the solution.
You are the first bring up Ron Paul's presidential chances.Certainly not the first to bring him up though.
This is why Ron Paul supporters are by far the most annoying, at least on the internet. You (his supporters) always shoehorn him into everything. I've seen it on other forums as well.
You are exaggerating.No I'm not.
Alpharaider47
31-01-12, 23:07
My god, America. If terrorists really wanted to blow **** up here again, they'd do it. It's time to grow up.
This country is going to destroy itself through pointless fear, among other things.
No I'm not.
You are, because you implied that is happening here on TRF.
You are, because you implied that is happening here on TRF.That's because it does, this thread being just one example.
This is the part that surprises (and partially worries) me the most. I had no idea they had the resources to check the Twitter messages of all the people arriving in their airports! That must be a HUGE amount of work. I assume it must be computerised (if that's a word) where people's names are cross-checked with places like Twitter and then certain keywords will flag them, like 'bomb' and 'destroy'? Oh, well, that'll teach all the terrorists publically telling their friends of their devious schemes :pi: I'm sure they're catching a lot of baddies that way.
It's a bit scary how accessible everything on the internet is. :/
I was thinking similar when I first saw this. Whatever happened to freedom of speech - or in this case, type? It was a figure of speech as well, talk about overreacting. It wouldn't be too clever for a [potential] terrorist to brag about his plans in a tweet :pi:. I mean, if I said 'I'm gonna paint the town red', I wouldn't mean literally :pi:. I realise security is a huge issue and potential threats should always be looked into, but to ban someone based on a tweet is silly.
Killercowz
31-01-12, 23:43
Oh gee, if terrorists wanted to destroy America, I'm sure the first place where they'd announce that is twitter.
patriots88888
31-01-12, 23:45
I'm not really sure what to make of this. :/ I believe part of the problem is how we look at things from differing perspectives... ala how we seem to be so obsessed with putting everything out there for all to see. [just for clarification] That doesn't mean that I'm implying that we should be unnecessarily fearful, only that we perhaps should think more carefully about what we are willing to share openly on the internet... this is just one more example of how things can get misinterpreted and blown completely out of context.
I wonder if the United States would sympathize if an American citizen wasn't allowed to leave the airport in any other country because they said they'd destroy it.
Close your borders already, if you're so concerned, terrorists will not announce their attack on Twitter.
I was thinking similar when I first saw this. Whatever happened to freedom of speech - or in this case, type? It was a figure of speech as well, talk about overreacting. It wouldn't be too clever for a [potential] terrorist to brag about his plans in a tweet :pi:. I mean, if I said 'I'm gonna paint the town red', I wouldn't mean literally :pi:. I realise security is a huge issue and potential threats should always be looked into, but to ban someone based on a tweet is silly.
Freedom of speech, due process and really most human and civil rights do not apply to visitors trying to enter the US. Sometimes I'm surprised they let in anyone at all.
(Okay, I'm exaggerating here, but I'm sure most americans have no idea about all the unnecessary and increasing bureaucracy that governs getting into the US as a tourist, the extensive data collection and how the US government can reject anyone without anything even approaching due process - and that's for the US's partner countries. For others, it's even worse. If anything similarly obstructive was required of american citizens for something in america, I'm sure they'd revolt)
Ward Dragon
01-02-12, 00:05
However, I do have my doubts whether this is proof that Ron Paul is a (or the only) good idea or that 9/11 was an inside job. But if we're playing "connect this to our favorite ideas", I'm sure I'll find some way to connect this to railroads. :D
These strict security measures at airports are just the beginning. The TSA will be coming for our train stations next! :pi:
http://news.yahoo.com/2012-tsa-expands-train-stations-ferry-docks-subways-203335348.html
You're implying that somehow this is directly Barack Obama's fault, and that under a different president he wouldn't have been turned away. :confused:
Obama could have vetoed the Patriot Act extension for starters. Not to mention as the president he has a lot of influence over Homeland Security and TSA policies. He's demonstrated that he's more than willing to use executive orders to do what he wants if he can't get other people to play along, so he definitely could have done something about airport security measures if he wanted to.
This is stupid. I reckon they just denied their entry because they were bored and needed something to do.
scoopy_loopy
01-02-12, 01:40
Uhmuricuuuh. **** yeah! Gonna' save the mother****ing day yuhhh!
This is what happens when you're in the list of most hated countries on the planet. But still, I thought they based these kinds of decisions on deeper research than someone's ramblings on Twitter. It sure makes America's security intel look a bit Laurel & Hardy, no wonder it took them so long to find Osama, he was so ultra-notorious that I bet they were checking Twitter and Facebook in their search for him.
scoopy_loopy
01-02-12, 02:11
[...] no wonder it took them so long to find Osama, he was so ultra-notorious that I bet they were checking Twitter and Facebook in their search for him.
:vlol:
innocentvenus
01-02-12, 03:01
As an American, I'm just going to facepalm and continue to shake my head at all the asinine things my government comes up with.
I really do hate it when people bash the US when their very own country does the same thing... take a look at this article right on the BBC website. The UK does the same thing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/south_yorkshire/8673196.stm
Now was this guy saying he only wanted to have a good time by blowing up the airport or was he serious? You never know when people tweet **** like that.
innocentvenus
01-02-12, 03:23
I really do hate it when people bash the US when their very own country does the same thing... take a look at this article right on the BBC website. The UK does the same thing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/south_yorkshire/8673196.stm
Now was this guy saying he only wanted to have a good time by blowing up the airport or was he serious? You never know when people tweet **** like that.
Didn't you know America bashing is the new hip thing to do now?
scoopy_loopy
01-02-12, 03:27
Didn't you know America bashing is the new hip thing to do now?
*since the 60s. :tea:
This is what happens when you're in the list of most hated countries on the planet. But still, I thought they based these kinds of decisions on deeper research than someone's ramblings on Twitter. It sure makes America's security intel look a bit Laurel & Hardy, no wonder it took them so long to find Osama, he was so ultra-notorious that I bet they were checking Twitter and Facebook in their search for him.Surely this must make Britain one of the most hated countries as well? As has already been mention, this kind of **** is just as common over here. I mean, who hates Britain more than yourself anyway? :p
In Capitalist America... the tweets blog/ck you. :p
And they saved the world again...
:rolleyes:
Surely this must make Britain one of the most hated countries as well? As has already been mention, this kind of **** is just as common over here. I mean, who hates Britain more than yourself anyway? :p
Us, hated? Probably, I wouldn't blame anyone if they did. I live here, I know what a ****hole this place is. But that has nothing to do with paranoia and the seemingly knee-jerk reaction to a throwaway comment, you're just responding to one line in my post, the least important one.
Us, hated? Probably, I wouldn't blame anyone if they did. I live here, I know what a ****hole this place is. But that has nothing to do with paranoia and the seemingly knee-jerk reaction to a throwaway comment, you're just responding to one line in my post, the least important one.Jesus Christ, if the UK and USA are top of the list of hated countries in the world then I can only put that down to jealousy.
I mean, you say the UK is a ****hole but on the grand scheme of things it's one of the best countries to live in. Also, as has been proven already we can also be paranoid and have knee-jerk reactions.
I always thought British have an affection with Americans. :rolleyes:
Some don't like them but I'd like to think that on the whole we're bros. Same goes for the rest of the Anglosphere.
Come on. Britain has bigger and better history than Americans. Britain ruled most of the parts of this World. America discovered only 520 years ago by a non-American. :p American's even edited the language "English" which was invented/originated in Britain. After all these why Britain have to support USA all the time? :confused:
These strict security measures at airports are just the beginning. The TSA will be coming for our train stations next! :pi:
http://news.yahoo.com/2012-tsa-expands-train-stations-ferry-docks-subways-203335348.html
Great. From what I hear in the US, there are already enough cases where railroad fans are getting stopped and questioned by the police for daring to take pictures of trains. And I don't think the TSA will be more reasonable if they find rail fans during such an operation…
Surely this must make Britain one of the most hated countries as well? As has already been mention, this kind of **** is just as common over here. I mean, who hates Britain more than yourself anyway? :p
I don't think most of the world, and in particular the parts that hate the US, see the UK as an equal level partner of the US. Frankly, even I don't. The US is still the leader of the western world when it comes to culture, the economy or military capability. Those who think the US is "the great Satan" will likely consider the UK to be nothing but a vassal.
Come on. Britain has bigger and better history than Americans. Britain ruled most of the parts of this World. America discovered only 520 years ago by a non-American. :p American's even edited the language "English" which was invented/originated in Britain. After all these why Britain have to support USA all the time? :confused:Because we're quite close when looking at the grand scheme of things?
I don't think most of the world, and in particular the parts that hate the US, see the UK as an equal level partner of the US. Frankly, even I don't. The US is still the leader of the western world when it comes to culture, the economy or military capability. Those who think the US is "the great Satan" will likely consider the UK to be nothing but a vassal.I never said we were equal to the US in terms of power. Of course we're not.
Actually, they see us as the little Satan. I'll take that as a compliment. If the likes of Iran are bestowing that kind of title on us we must be doing something right. :D
interstellardave
01-02-12, 12:14
I see this as a comment on Twitter as much as anything else. Perhaps I'm an old fart but I fail to see why people are suddenly so addicted to spouting out whatever they want to say on the spur of the moment so that all the world can read it??? And I fail to see why so many, likewise, want to read it??? At least on forums like these you compose a message and (hopefully) consider whether you really want it to be posted before doing so. You can also edit it afterwards before it spreads too far.
It's just good sense to watch what you say in certain situations, especially when people DO perpetrate evil deeds and DO spout off about those deeds publically, both before and after. That was true even before the internet. You shouldn't go into a bank and say outloud "I ought to just rob this damn place" if you were frustrated by standing in line too long! We must not forget that some criminals--and some terrorists--really are dumb enough to do just those kinds of things. That's why these communications are monitored.
It's obviously not that these tweets are all read by people; it's simply a kind of search-engine thing where keywords and phrases are looked for. Messages that fit that profile are then singled out and those who posted such things are put on "the list". Then you go to get on a plane and find out you're "flagged" as a possible terrorist. Of course, in this case, it's seems that he's not a terrorist, but we have machines making these decisions... and then a few airport employees who would be too scared to take the chance that this guy maybe would do something if they let him in. Put yourself in their position... I'm sure it's not so easy.
I agree Dave. It's a bit of a silly reaction but at the same time it was a silly thing to say.
I agree that you shouldn't post anything on Twitter (or the entire internet) if you don't want it to be associated with your real name. But at the same time, context matters, too. Twitter is idle, informal chatter, and I will post very different things there than here, or on my blog. I think one can reasonably expect, based on that context, that people would not take the tweet in this example seriously.
If he had said the same thing while standing in the line at the security check in, then surely it would have been different. Well, maybe. I still think it was obvious that he was joking, but it is well established that american security officials are not allowed to understand jokes. But this was not the context of the original tweet, and evaluating it by the same standards is just wrong.
We should not have to live in fear that the government (whether human or automated) suddenly decides we're terrorists. Rather, the government has to prove that we're likely to do something bad. Anything else violates the basic principles of a free country. A tweet may be part of evidence there, but it is very obviously never enough for a conviction. The only reason why the US government gets away with crap like that is because they manage to claim that tourists who want to enter the US do not have any true rights; a state that I am not at all happy with.
As for what the officers should have done in this situation: I can understand their motivation; if thinking gets them into trouble, then they shouldn't do it. The problem is that there is a system where automated analysis of a single tweet outweighs any common sense. That is just rubbish.
interstellardave
01-02-12, 13:27
I agree that you shouldn't post anything on Twitter (or the entire internet) if you don't want it to be associated with your real name. But at the same time, context matters, too. Twitter is idle, informal chatter, and I will post very different things there than here, or on my blog. I think one can reasonably expect, based on that context, that people would not take the tweet in this example seriously.
If he had said the same thing while standing in the line at the security check in, then surely it would have been different. Well, maybe. I still think it was obvious that he was joking, but it is well established that american security officials are not allowed to understand jokes. But this was not the context of the original tweet, and evaluating it by the same standards is just wrong.
We should not have to live in fear that the government (whether human or automated) suddenly decides we're terrorists. Rather, the government has to prove that we're likely to do something bad. Anything else violates the basic principles of a free country. A tweet may be part of evidence there, but it is very obviously never enough for a conviction. The only reason why the US government gets away with crap like that is because they manage to claim that tourists who want to enter the US do not have any true rights; a state that I am not at all happy with.
As for what the officers should have done in this situation: I can understand their motivation; if thinking gets them into trouble, then they shouldn't do it. The problem is that there is a system where automated analysis of a single tweet outweighs any common sense. That is just rubbish.
I agree with much of what you say, and hope that this is perhaps the example that leads to a re-evaluation of the current process. It shouldn't be as bad as this.
I must state, however, that people are acting as if this guy was arrested or something. He was not. There was no thought crime here; he was not accused of a crime and he was not convicted of anything. He was simply denied entry into the US--on the (I think we all agree unfounded) belief that he might commit criminal acts. In any case I don't think that entry into any country is considered a "right".
So, while I agree that even what actually happened in this instance is too much, and it should have been sorted out by clear-thinking individuals of authority, I must say that people are overstating what has happened here. This should be fixed so that it doesn't happen again... and it should certainly not be taken to greater extremes either.
Chocola teapot
01-02-12, 13:33
Oh Lord.
Jesus Christ, if the UK and USA are top of the list of hated countries in the world then I can only put that down to jealousy.
And that right there is the main problem with the perception of the problem. Jealousy does not enter into the equation.
Come on. Britain has bigger and better history than Americans. Britain ruled most of the parts of this World. America discovered only 520 years ago by a non-American. :p American's even edited the language "English" which was invented/originated in Britain. After all these why Britain have to support USA all the time? :confused:
Because we have a strong alliance with the United Kingdom.
tlr online
01-02-12, 19:43
Freedom of speech, due process and really most human and civil rights do not apply to visitors trying to enter the US. Sometimes I'm surprised they let in anyone at all.
The solution is very simple really. Don't go to America.
The solution is very simple really. Don't go to America.
Or just think before you speak! :vlol:
tlr online
01-02-12, 22:17
Or just think before you speak! :vlol:
The case here is one of misunderstanding by the American authorties. The term 'destroy America' in this context just means to party hardcore. Now if this were an American-run forum, perhaps someone might misinterpret my 'party hardcore' comment to mean something else. My point is, the context was either lost in translation or absent through ignorance.
Something else to consider. How did the American authorties link a random missive via Twitter to an incoming British tourist.
Alpharaider47
01-02-12, 22:54
Something else to consider. How did the American authorties link a random missive via Twitter to an incoming British tourist.
Because Big Brother is watching. :pi:
And that right there is the main problem with the perception of the problem. Jealousy does not enter into the equation.So we (the UK and US) are hated because...?
So we (the UK and US) are hated because...?
Because we actively interfere in the sovereignty of other nations, destroy communities that would otherwise not care about us one way or the other, put soldiers in places that are sacred to the people of a given land, assert our 'right' to dictate to the world what they can or cannot do, install dictators or topple them without regard to any consequences to us or anyone else, ally ourselves and make deals with actual terrorist supporting nations (Pakistan) while invading nations who are no threat to our domestic security (Iraq), promote hate within our populace based on the agenda of the government and the military industrial complex...
I could go on for much longer.
Something else to consider. How did the American authorties link a random missive via Twitter to an incoming British tourist.
The same way British authorities do it to their own citizens. :p
Because we actively interfere in the sovereignty of other nations, destroy communities that would otherwise not care about us one way or the other, put soldiers in places that are sacred to the people of a given land, assert our 'right' to dictate to the world what they can or cannot do, install dictators or topple them without regard to any consequences to us or anyone else, ally ourselves and make deals with actual terrorist supporting nations (Pakistan) while invading nations who are no threat to our domestic security (Iraq), promote hate within our populace based on the agenda of the government and the military industrial complex...
I could go on for much longer.
:tmb: http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o307/EscondeR_Croft/Smilies/96xlkw_th.gif
Because we have a strong alliance with the United Kingdom.
Yeah I have seen the PICTURE of it. :p
Ohh you lives in Anaheim? :D
Yeah I have seen the PICTURE of it. :p
Ohh you lives in Anaheim? :D
Not in Anaheim but I go there frequently :P
I live right in the center of California lol.
Because we actively interfere in the sovereignty of other nations, destroy communities that would otherwise not care about us one way or the other, put soldiers in places that are sacred to the people of a given land, assert our 'right' to dictate to the world what they can or cannot do, install dictators or topple them without regard to any consequences to us or anyone else, ally ourselves and make deals with actual terrorist supporting nations (Pakistan) while invading nations who are no threat to our domestic security (Iraq), promote hate within our populace based on the agenda of the government and the military industrial complex...
I could go on for much longer.Yet a lot of people that hate us don't even mention that.
Yet a lot of people that us don't even mention that.
Well, it is a bit long to shout when you're an angry mob.
But arguing that they are all plain jealous is unrealistic. People do not generally hate the US because there is a better life possible there; instead they want to emulate it. The people of the countries in the eastern bloc were jealous of the freedom and wealth the americans had – and when the very, very rare plane with Levi's jeans landed in the GDR, everyone was trying to get one (or more, but that was nearly impossible). In fact, all of Europe started emulating the american way of life to some degree after the second world war.
The people who hate the US do not actually want the american life style for themselves (it is likely that they have a very skewed image of it). They hate the US and/or the west because they, or people they knew, have had bad interactions with the US in the past.
Not in Anaheim but I go there frequently :P
I live right in the center of California lol.
Ohh sorry. I knew Disneyland is in Anaheim, California. :)
Yet a lot of people that hate us don't even mention that.
Are you sure? Because I know they don't say they are jealous either lol :p
Well, it is a bit long to shout when you're an angry mob.
But arguing that they are all plain jealous is unrealistic. People do not generally hate the US because there is a better life possible there; instead they want to emulate it. The people of the countries in the eastern bloc were jealous of the freedom and wealth the americans had – and when the very, very rare plane with Levi's jeans landed in the GDR, everyone was trying to get one (or more, but that was nearly impossible). In fact, all of Europe started emulating the american way of life to some degree after the second world war.
The people who hate the US do not actually want the american life style for themselves (it is likely that they have a very skewed image of it). They hate the US and/or the west because they, or people they knew, have had bad interactions with the US in the past.
Precisely.
Ward Dragon
02-02-12, 23:29
Are you sure? Because I know they don't say they are jealous either lol :p
As far as the actual violent terrorists go, based on their rambling messages of hatred they resent the US because people in the Middle East are influenced by our culture. They don't want people in their countries to know that life could be different from the horribly oppressive rules that they force on people. So yes, they see us as a threat, but I don't think it's for the reasons that you mentioned earlier. Rather exposure to our culture encourages people to want a better life than the harsh and rigid rules that the terrorists want them to obey. The terrorists want to keep people ignorant and obedient.
As far as the actual violent terrorists go, based on their rambling messages of hatred they resent the US because people in the Middle East are influenced by our culture. They don't want people in their countries to know that life could be different from the horribly oppressive rules that they force on people. So yes, they see us as a threat, but I don't think it's for the reasons that you mentioned earlier. Rather exposure to our culture encourages people to want a better life than the harsh and rigid rules that the terrorists want them to obey. The terrorists want to keep people ignorant and obedient.
The people in charge maybe, but the poor bastard blowing himself up? Not so much. They have entirely less dogmatic reasons for doing what they do.
Ward Dragon
03-02-12, 00:37
The people in charge maybe, but the poor bastard blowing himself up? Not so much. They have entirely less dogmatic reasons for doing what they do.
Yeah, they were told to do it by the people in charge XD
Romantics Inc.
03-02-12, 00:45
I hate America.
Yeah, they were told to do it by the people in charge XD
Jokes aside, the dogma that the big wigs spew publicly is not why Generic Suicide Terrorist #37 is blowing himself up.
Ward Dragon
03-02-12, 01:52
Jokes aside, the dogma that the big wigs spew publicly is not why Generic Suicide Terrorist #37 is blowing himself up.
He's doing it because he was indoctrinated to believe that it's a ticket to heaven.
He's doing it because he was indoctrinated to believe that it's a ticket to heaven.
He believes he's getting 57 virgins, but Chuck Norris already beat him to it. :tea:
I hate America.
Word.
And you know what's funny? Why should people have to be afraid to exercise their free speech.
I mean saying "damn man our country sucks" on twitter doesn't mean you're gonna go out and bomb everywhere.
I hate America.
You're always welcome to leave.
He's doing it because he was indoctrinated to believe that it's a ticket to heaven.
Some of them perhaps, but many of them are what we would call perfectly normal people who are not intent on extremism.
Ward Dragon
03-02-12, 19:32
Some of them perhaps, but many of them are what we would call perfectly normal people who are not intent on extremism.
Perfectly normal people don't blow themselves up in the middle of a crowded shopping mall.
The terrorists are indoctrinated in training camps where they are constantly told how evil everyone else is, and that they'll be rewarded in the after life for killing as many evil people as they can.
Their reasons for suicide bombing are not rational. Trying to read rational motivations into these attacks only ends up with people advocating appeasement. After all, if only we were nicer to people they wouldn't want to hurt us, right?
Except that it doesn't work and they keep on murdering innocent people anyway, no matter how many concessions are made.
I think one has to differentiate between different kinds of suicide bombers. Those who do the huge plans to blow up planes and so on are a very different kind from those who get a jacket full of bombs and run into a US or israeli checkpoint.
There are documented cases where suicide bombers of the second type were just doing it because the terrorist organization promised their family money. Some of them were really happy when they got stopped.
Ward Dragon
03-02-12, 19:51
I think one has to differentiate between different kinds of suicide bombers. Those who do the huge plans to blow up planes and so on are a very different kind from those who get a jacket full of bombs and run into a US or israeli checkpoint.
There are documented cases where suicide bombers of the second type were just doing it because the terrorist organization promised their family money. Some of them were really happy when they got stopped.
Well in that case, the underlying problem is still the terrorists who are bribing (or maybe even threatening) other people into committing suicide attacks. So the attacks are still for irrational reasons at the core of it, even if the actual attacker was a normal person who was forced into it one way or another.
TRLegendLuver
03-02-12, 22:22
Can people seriously knock off the "I hate America", "America sucks", "Only in America" bull? It's really pathetic and frivolous cop-out. :rolleyes:
They freaked out for something they shouldn't of, but with what has happened with several attempts at people trying to bomb and things of that nature to America, I don't blame them. You shouldn't be ignorant to say, "destroy America", and mean something completely different. The definition of "destroy" is as following:
destroy: Put an end to the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it.
(2) Completely ruin or spoil (something).
People nowadays are not used to certain words meaning something completely different than their original definition and people should know you shouldn't say certain things over the internet anyhow, even if it's over something as public and common as Twitter.
Chug a Bug
19-02-12, 18:05
Over the top much?
Quote:
Holidaymakers have been warned to watch their words after two British friends were refused entry to the US on security grounds after a tweet.
Before his trip, Leigh Van Bryan wrote that he was going to "destroy America". He insisted he was referring to simply having a good time - but was sent home.
Trade association Abta told the BBC that the case highlighted that holidaymakers should never do anything to raise "concern or suspicion in any way"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16810312
I remember when I visited america the customs guy wanted to know everything about my passport, endless questions about what I was doing and why I was there, how long I was staying, what was in my luggage I felt like I was some kind of criminal... and this was before things got crazy after 9/11
Arriving home the customs didn't even bother to look at my passport just got waved through....
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