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ELEN
18-02-05, 18:01
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

I sat down and wrote all these, not because I want to give you a lesson. I just want to avoid misunderstandings between:

</font> The members</font> The members and the mods</font>
I don't like seeing members fighting each other and members (that I really love) misunderstanding some of our actions.

1) The General Chat is indeed a forum where you can talk about TR and non-TR related things. The latter, however, sometimes ends up to unpleasant situations. What these could be?

A) Wrangles

You don't agree and you are 100% against a member's opinion. This can be about politics, religion or sexuality. There is nothing healthier than this. This is how the communities grow up and friendships are created. But there is a difference between the proper argument and the offensive one.

The proper argument has to do with our opinion, which is totally different from another member's opinion, and we try to make him understand that he may be wrong. May be wrong, because there is a possibility that our opinion is wrong. In fact, there are no wrong and correct opinions on a general subject. If I don't like how prime minister of Greece acts is my personal opinion. This doesn't mean that Nicky also doesn't like his actions. So, this is a general subject and opinions are based on personal believes. My opinion about our prime minister is not wrong\ correct. Nicky's opinion about our prime minister is also not wrong\ correct.

[The above political example is just random.]

The offensive argument has to do with our opinion, which is totally different from another member's opinion, and we try to change his mind, insisting that he lives under a rock and does not have a sense of reality. His opinion is wrong, he does not have a clue on what he is talking about, he does not know what happens in the world and it is time for him to wake up. If I don't like how the prime minister of Greece acts is my personal opinion. Nicky must also think the same thing, because my opinion is correct and if she does not agree, her opinion is totally wrong. Then I go to posts like "Are you blind?", "Why don't you open your eyes *****?", "Oh, go ****. Can't you see that our prime minister is idiot?”.

[The above political example is just random. I'm sorry for the censorship.]

We are not Stroumphs. We cannot (all the time) hold a rose in our hand and hit the member we talk with. There are many times that we want to punch him. Let's make it with a gentle way. If we disagree on something, we can say it. But saying that his opinion is wrong, isn't it a bit exaggerated? Because it is wrong according to our personal opinion, which could be wrong according to someone else's opinion, which (again) could be wrong according to a third person's opinion, and so on… So, the things are getting complicated and we lose the meaning of the topic. We attack the member who disagrees with us, and we don't even comment the actions of the prime minister!!! (Go figure!!)

B) Wrangles – Version 2

Bringing your differences from outside TRF inside TRF is not good. I may accept the fact that you fight for a topic here, but I CANNOT accept if you bring outside differences. First, who said we care about your argument? Second, you do not have the right to upset us with details. Third, what do you want to prove? That you know and we don't? Fourth, if a member pretends someone else here, and you think that he may cause trouble to the community, you better let the mods know (or the admins if you prefer) than the whole community, who does not give a damn about this (apart from those who want to know everything – stare cats!!).

C) Spam – Irrelevant to the topic posts

Title: My new dress

andromeda_eats: Guys, you have to see my new dress – [LINK]

Sparky: Although I'm not interested at all, it looks nice.

ELEN: What a lovely dress!!!

tlr_online: I have to agree with Sparky. The subject doesn't concern me, but it's indeed beautiful!!

ELEN: tlr!!!! Now that I see you online, did you get my mail?

tlr_online: Yes, I did.

ELEN: Did you read it?

tlr_online: Yes, and I have to say that you must do it.

ELEN: But I explained you the reasons I don't want to do it.

tlr_online: Dunno. It's your decision.

Now, what does my mail to tlr have to do with Andro's dress? 1) I spammed the thread. I could either PM or call tlr (if my mail was emergency). 2) Totally irrelevant to the topic.

Now Andro comes to the thread and sees all these irrelevant replies. More than that, what if she had enabled the mail notification for the replies in the thread? (ouch!!!)

D) Spam – Version 2

It's quite difficult to determine what spam is. From a quick look I had on the internet, I found that spam means (more or less) To post irrelevant or inappropriate messages. But what is relevant or appropriate? Something relevant to me can be irrelevant to someone else. But if we see it more specifically, we have:

In the above example with Andro, my posts were indeed irrelevant to the topic. So, I spammed the thread.

In general, however, we can't really tell if a member spams or not. [FAO ELEN -&gt; check your mail.] IMO, this is spam. Although the member posts this thread in Gen Chat, I think it is spam because I'll check my inbox soon and read the mail anyway. It does not matter if I read it in one, two or three days. What if personal commitments keep me away from the internet? For some members, this is not spam. I respect it. (Note: the thread will not take more than two replies.)

[FAO ELEN -&gt; I found a pic of a cat and I'm sure you will love it]. IMO, this is not spam. Although the member wants me to see the thread, many members will participate discussing about this specific pic or posting other pics. (Note: the thread will take many replies.)

Clarification: If a thread has just few replies, it doesn't mean that it's spam. The intention is what counts.

My opinion about spam: I don't like it when it happens on regular basis. Even more, I don't like when a specific member spams. More than that, I don't like it when the member spams just to increase his post count. In general, if a member post a thread just to spam and it doesn't happen frequently, ok, it's not the end of the world.

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2) Terms and Conditions

They are not there just to be there. They have not been written for fun. There is a reason they appear before the registration. You press the "I agree" button, but most of the people do not read them. They read them when we happen to remove something and if they ask for the reason we point them there.

What is it all about? The T&C do not protect only us. They also protect you. Our T&C: http://www.tombraiderforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=agree_review

1) Which means that someone is responsible for the post and the responsible is the poster himself. Detailed explanation comes to the second part below.

2) Which means that if the poster offended someone, we are here for you. Just drop us a mail and we'll do our best. We are not machines though. It may take some time to decide if the post has to be either edited or removed.

3) Just a limitation on what we can't post. We are not here to offend other people or do things that we can't do in our real life. We do not take as an opportunity the fact that we are behind the screen and no-one can see us, thus post whatever comes to our mind. Also, copyrighted infringement. We cannot post something and 1) claim it's ours (if it's not) 2) take bandwidth from another server without their permission (these people pay). If the webmasters allow this, post the link. You may however post links or images from our servers (trc.com, trf.com, trhub.com) because we allow that and all these things are there for you. But please post here, not elsewhere without our permission.

4) A separate paragraph, which explains in details why you are responsible for your own messages.

5) When you register on this forum, your IP is automatically logged. It is also logged when you post. This protects both you and us. We can contact your ISP and complain if your posts\ actions violate our T&C.

6) Advertisements. We just don't agree with the people that register only to advertise (TR or non-TR related). We do NOT know the person. We do NOT know to what site he will link. I have come across sites that contain viruses or inappropriate content. The intention is what counts. If there is indeed a relevant resource we can accept it. But there is a difference between the good and bad advertisement.

7) No spam and no more than one account per member. I guess this doesn't need further explanation. For this spefic part, we are strict. We do NOT allow that.

8) If you cannot download from www.tombraiderchronicles.com, (http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com,) contact the webmasters there. This forum cannot solve your problem.

9) Mods and admins. More words come exactly below.

-------------------------------------------------

3) Mods and admins

I'll start with this: Imagine a forum without mods. :eek:

What is a mod? What a mod can do? What a mod cannot do?

First, a mod (or an admin) is not a God. I can't understand why some of you mention this and you think you hit our weak spot. So, I'll finish this part by saying that it's in your mind. I can't give a more logical explanation.

A mod controls an individual forum. A mod may control more than one forum. The power that a mod has (regarding the software) is to edit or delete a post and view the IP of the poster. Keep this part in your mind, because I'll come back to it very soon.

How a mod is selected: First, it is a collective decision. There is not only one person who decides about the new mods. One drops the idea, then we discuss.

I'm sure you wouldn't like a mod that swears, talks ironically, doesn't care about you, doesn't help you, ignores the forum or you. In fact, there is no a specific formula, so that we can decide about a new mod. You don't have to be over 25, for example. But there are some things that we really take under consideration. These can be: kindness, knowledge, willingness, time he spends on the forum, opinions that don't come from his imagination. These are some basic things that we can start with. The rest come after we upgrade his membership. We cannot guess how this member will act by having this "power". We have imagined how he will act, but we have never seen him on real "duty".

Fitting in the mod team is not easy. Most of the new mods have a problem because they don't know how to deal with a situation. Only recently they came from the "members' team" and there is a difficulty to understand the difference. Most of the members want the mod to take the fair side, but the new mod, most of the times, is not able to see which the fair side is. Not because he is not able to see it, but because only recently he was in their position and knows their "demands" and how the members think. That's why we sometimes ask you to support the new mods. They are human and they may make mistakes (like all of us). Only this time, as a mod, he will be attacked more times than when he was a simple member, and even more, if he is a new mod, he will take it personally.

If some of you think that moderating a forum is easy, I'm sorry but you are wrong. There are many responsibilities and it's difficult to learn that "you can't please everyone". You fight for something. One team says black, the other says white and the third says gray. If the mod says black, the white team will hate him, the black team will love him and the gray team will not give a damn. And this is only the beginning...

And now comes the power that a mod has, regarding the software (as I mentioned above). Once we upgrade the membership, the new mod automatically gets the ability to edit\ delete posts amd view IP's. Although we can remove this ability, we do not do it. The mod, apart from helping the members, he also helps us. The rest of the mod team is not online 24 hours per day.

If the mod abuses his abilities, believe us, we'll be the first to notice. If we don't notice this, you can contact us. We need your support. A community is not based only on the mods. We all are part of this community. If we want TRF to be healthy we all have to help. We are many, many people around here. There are hundreds of personalities, each one has to be dealt with a different way. The mods do not moderate only a couple of hours. Something may be going on in whichever part of the day. And this, because we all are from different places around the world. Isn't this awesome? http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

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4) Mods and T&C

What a lovely relationship! Don't you think?

Maybe the most difficult part for a mod. We have:

</font> We are strict and always follow the T&C. The members don't like it.</font> We are nice. The members don't find it proper.</font>
Do we have to find a middle way? What are the things that most please you?

Do you want us to base our actions on our T&C (literally) or some times pretend we never saw something bad only to let the fun go on?

There is a sensitive part here, and we may not find a direct answer. We can allow someone to post an image that contains a swear word (only because the image is fun and the poster obviously doesn't want to cause troubles, but only laugh) but we would never allow a member to swear to another member. This is the kind of exceptions we make for the T&C.

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5) Censorship

We do not mention it in our T&C because the forum software automatically blocks the words anyway. Although some members do not agree with the system, we will keep the censorship. I cannot accept the excuse of "the minors swear anyway" or "it is something they do at the school, for example". If they do swear outside TRF, they are free to do it. But this is a place, where they cannot do it. Nor the adults can do that, based on the above excuses. If you want to swear, do it. But please allow the software block the word and don't place symbols (! @ % _) in order to bypass the censorship. The words will be removed anyway if a mod sees it.

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That was it... Just a few words :D

As always, feel free to comment or ask http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

Thanks for reading.

ELEN
18-02-05, 18:17
OMG!!! Spelling mistakes http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/yikes.gif I'm bored to correct them now :D

TopCat.TopBeing
18-02-05, 19:04
is this for me? :D lol j/k :D thanks elen! some two hours of typing huh? well done http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

Anubis_AF
18-02-05, 19:25
Thank you ELEN. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

The info is very useful and will solve many misunderstandings.
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

[EDIT: Thanks for posting ELEN]

[ 18. February 2005, 19:39: Message edited by: Anubis_AF ]

ELEN
18-02-05, 19:35
Originally posted by TopCat.TopBeing:
is this for me? :D lol j/k :D Yes, the first part. The very very very very first part http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

TopCat.TopBeing
18-02-05, 19:40
Originally posted by ELEN:
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif this? http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Anubis_AF
18-02-05, 19:46
LoL http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Apofiss
18-02-05, 21:33
I think TRF's moderators are the best mods I have ever seen, with serious and intelligent attitude by accepting (sometimes) hard decisions!.

Hmm...I think the main rule in TRF is mutual understanding well something like this http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif (right? :D )

Scottlee
19-02-05, 00:09
Excellent post hun! Very well written and I kept reading right to the end! If you have an English teacher out there somewhere, I'm sure he would be very happy if he read that!( http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif )

I enjoyed reading your points from an information point of view, and there were also some funny bits too...

- ...and the grey team won't give a damn :D
- (Nicky being used as an involuntary guinea pig for your swearing examples) :D
- "Stare Cats". :D I am fascinated by this! Stare Cats?? LOL.

Anyway, that was a fab read. Really was. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

[ 19. February 2005, 00:10: Message edited by: Scottlee ]

wantafanta
19-02-05, 01:48
Can I post pictures from my own personal website?

Mark Garcia
19-02-05, 12:55
Very helpful for the new members. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

tlr online
19-02-05, 12:59
Good work hon!

andromeda_eats
20-02-05, 06:05
Very well written Elen. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Btw, where is this new dress of mine? Did you purchase me a dress? I would very much like to see it. :D

croft28
20-02-05, 07:51
Understood Elen http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Good work.

mizadventure
21-02-05, 16:45
Thankyou very imformative, must have taken some typing and the time to do it.
helped a lot.

thanks http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

Andre Filipe Matos Matos
21-02-05, 17:55
i like your character! you are very nice and a really good person i can see that at distance

Nikola
21-02-05, 22:09
*childishly throws spam-in-a-can at everyone*

*runs off*

Virusbuster
23-02-05, 16:23
I gotta agree with most of that, as long as mods and admins do think themselves (I'm not saying they aren't now) and won't follow the T&C literally whatever the problem is. I also think (still not saying they aren't) they have to be neutral in cases like the black, white, grey thing. If a mod/admin absolutely wants to say his/her meaning, then do it when the fight is over. There might still be some people that get mad because of it, but not that many. What is spam and what is not can be discussed.

Posting just to say "78053idflhbelr73948" is spam deluxe. Delete.

But, like in Elen's example above, about andromeda's new dress (looked nice, btw), editing or deleting is not needed. Personally, I'd say that doesn't even require a warning, but that's just my own opinion.

Well, the whole ting is just my own opinion.


This might be the right time to ask:
Is a name change possible here?

[ 23. February 2005, 16:25: Message edited by: Virusbuster ]

ELEN
23-02-05, 16:32
Originally posted by Virusbuster:

Is a name change possible here? If you mean your publicly displayed name, I'm sorry but you can't.

Meep
27-02-05, 10:32
hey Elen wow you must've really been ****ed at people ? But yeah this should be posted for those new to TRF anmd they gotta agree http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif maybe even test them on it later on !!

you got straight to your points not once did i yawn http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

thanks for that though i havent been here for ages as you may or may not have noticed... so just as a side thing hi everyone im back

IAin'tYourHunnyBunny
27-02-05, 20:02
Wow, what the hell have I been missing?!!! I know I haven't logged on for a few weeks, but did I miss something big? http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/yikes.gif

TopCat.TopBeing
27-02-05, 20:09
nah u didnt miss anything BIG, hunny bunny, theres just been some stuff ELEN had to clear up ;)

Heya Meep http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

larasfrend
28-02-05, 17:30
Beautiful double post... http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/whistle.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/yikes.gif

[ 28. February 2005, 17:37: Message edited by: larasfrend ]

larasfrend
28-02-05, 17:33
Originally posted by IAin'tYourHunnyBunny:
Wow, what the hell have I been missing?!!! I know I haven't logged on for a few weeks, but did I miss something big? http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/yikes.gif LOL Know the feeling!

Hi guys! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif V. interesting ELEN! I actually read all that! Proves how well it's written! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

ELEN
28-02-05, 18:59
Just ignore my spelling :D

SpArKy
02-03-05, 15:04
I noticed i am present in the 'Spamming Section' of your rules ELEN, lmao. So have you bought any new dres's lately, lmao. Sorry had to get that one in.

ELEN
02-03-05, 21:04
Me? No... I don't know about Andro http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Chug a Bug
05-03-05, 20:06
Thats very fair. And I agree. In my experiance these forums are probably the the friendliest and certainly the most polite/helpful I've come across.

Forums do need Mods. I've visited some forums recently that were unmoderated and it was awful - everyone was flaming everyone else, swearing, you name it. Total anarchy. I didn't stay long.

I do think Mods have a tough time of it. They have to be impartial, take a lot of stick and not take any of it personally. There are some forums where I don't always like the Mods due to a personality difference I guess but I do have a respect for their judgment.

Re: spam - yes I have to agree with that. Some forums are even tougher in that regard.

nicolasa
06-03-05, 01:39
Originally posted by ELEN:
Just ignore my spelling :D its OK,you're allowed to spell stuff wrong in a post that long we'll forgive you. right guys? http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

ELEN
08-03-05, 22:04
Thanks, nicolasa http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

Apofiss
08-03-05, 22:11
Yeay! You are back ELEN! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

[ 08. March 2005, 22:15: Message edited by: Apofiss ]

ELEN
08-03-05, 22:16
Oh... You noticed? http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

SpArKy
08-03-05, 22:31
Originally posted by ELEN:
Oh... You noticed? http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Err NO... http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-2.gif

Actually i heard the echo coming from your keyboard down my cable line, lmao.

THAT's when i new ELEN was online. Ha ha love ya really. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

ELEN
08-03-05, 22:45
I meant he noticed I was gone for some days http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

jeocan
17-03-05, 22:27
Where the heck is Bokkie? I haven't bothered him in ages http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif I bother Neteru now :D

ELEN
18-03-05, 20:40
Bokkie is busy with his work (programming thingies) and he comes when he has some time.

I don't think that Net has a problem. Keep going http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

jeocan
19-03-05, 03:26
Oh don't worry :D

xMiSsCrOfTx
01-04-05, 22:14
Very nice work ELEN http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

LOL jeocan. I bother ELEN sometimes, sorry dear. :D

New-Raider
03-04-05, 21:42
Delete this post.

[ 03. April 2005, 22:51: Message edited by: New-Raider ]

New-Raider
03-04-05, 21:44
ELEN, although you say you didn't need to put this here, I think it is a good reminder and SHOULD be posted, but I would like to point out a few things:

User Agreement Review


1. Considering the real-time nature of this bulletin board (BB), it is impossible for us to review messages or confirm the validity of information posted. Please remember that we do not actively monitor the contents of posted messages and are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message.Irrelivant
Paragraph not worth reading.


2. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of this BB or any entity associated with this BB. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. This is a manual process, however, so please realize that we may not be able to remove or edit particular messages immediately.Stating the obvious
Paragraph not worth reading.


3. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, intimidating, disrespectful or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this BB.Worth repeating
People break rules anyway.


4. Although this BB does not and cannot review the messages posted and is not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we at this BB reserve the right to delete any message for any or no reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold harmless this BB, Infopop, Inc. (the makers of the bulletin board software), and their agents with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s).Stupid rule
Rule should not exist.
You (all administrators and moderators on the Web) are not Kings and Queens, and we (all surfers on the Internet) are not just servants.


5. Your IP is automatically logged upon registration and during the act of posting messages for security purposes. We at this BB also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you. We have security measures in place to protect any/all information we hold about you.Stupid standard practice
How do we know what happens to this information and why you need it?
Legally you have to say so with means of letting the user see what exactly was gathered, typically OS, browser type/version, country, state, city, and previous link, and maybe more.


6. Please note that advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are inappropriate on this BB. Please also note that this message board is not a FFA Links Site. One-post-wonders wanting solely to advertise web sites will have their membership cancelled and their posts removed. While we welcome the broadcasting of additional and relevant resources, we will not tolerate blatant web site advertising. Such posts we deem fall into this category will be removed and appropriate action taken.Worth repating
Rule broken on Yahoo! Groups, just as it will be here.


7. Please refrain from submitting pointless, frivolous posts to increase your post count. Also, registration is permitted on an account per person basis. Multiple registrations will be disabled and posting privileges withdrawn for a specified period of time.Good points with stupidity
If you loose your account status (or can't activate) from a software glitch, you should be able to rereregister without punishment.


8. Please direct all download related questions and inquiries from www.tombraiderchronicles.com (http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com) to technical support here and not this forum.DUH!


9. Moderators control individual forums. They can edit, delete, or prune any posts in their forums, if they feel that the posts were inappropriate. If one of the above happens, the forum members are not allowed to question by creating new topics why this happened. They can contact the moderator who performed the action via PM or mail. Lastly, an Administrator's word is final.See 4

Don't take this lightly.
I am very angry at the Internet system (just like the rest of the anti-spyware/anti-popup community) which unfortunately InfoPop is part of.

[ 04. April 2005, 03:51: Message edited by: New-Raider ]

ELEN
04-04-05, 15:08
New-Raider http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

Every message board (and not only this one) is a free place for everyone to post. If you want to enter this place and participate in convs, you have to follow the rules, whether they are stupid or not. The paragraphs may be "not worth reading", but make sure you have read and understood them very well. No-one forces you to post here. It's your personal decision. Consider it as a club. If you want to enter, you have to be nice. Otherwise the henchman comes, gets you and kicks you out.

Thanks for your comments though. Be sure that our T&C will remain as they are and they will apply to everyone.