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View Full Version : Similarities between A Nightmare on Elm Street and Tomb Raider. Read :-)


RaidR_84
02-05-05, 04:53
I know this post may seem like "What the Hell is he on?", but I do have logic here that may seem a little...familiar.

A Nightmare on Elm Street is a series that involves a famous pop culture icon. He is, Freddy Krueger. Now as you know, the series went on to spawn 7 sequels...which number 8 took the longest to create. Also, number 7 brought back the original inventor of Freddy, who is Wes Craven.

My theory is that A Nightmare on Elm Street and Tomb Raider imitate each other in terms of the style the sequels took, and how they were produced...

Lets get started...

NOES (Nightmare on Elm Street) was completely innovative. It actually recreated the slasher genre and created a whole new topic for the genre...dreams. This movie created explorativity for the characters and made them go into the dream world. This movie revived the genre.

The same can be said of Tomb Raider. Tomb Raider regenerated the action/adventure genre. Gone were the point and click of the indy games of the past. Now you had buxom, feminine, hard a** Lady Croft. She too, became a pop culture icon.

Tomb Raider 2 increased the gore and storyline. It added on and took risks with the game (sexually).

Freddy's Revenge (NOES 2) added more gore and created sexually subliminal characters that were controversial.

Tomb Raider 3, is some to be said, the best of the series. It added a whole new concept. It brought back elements from the first game.

Dream Warriors (NOES 3) brought back elements from the first (Nancy, as Heather Langenkamp) and brought back the original creator of the series. While Tomb Raider 3 did not bring back Toby, it actually went back to go forward.

Last Revelation was the biggest, most budgeted Tomb Raider of all, before AOD. Right now, it is the longest game out of the series of Tomb Raider.

Dream Master (NOES 4) is the longest running Nightmare film before Nightmare 7, which we are at the 7th installment of our series. It also was highly budgeted and sold relatively well at the box office.

Chronicles is considered, by many Tomb Raider fans, the least favorite game of the series. It tried a new concept and it did not turn out as planned.

Same can be said of Dream Child (NOES 5). Also did not sell as well as its predecessor.

Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness was the one everyone waited for. It also was the one that fell on its face (at least critically, I love it) :). It also had the highest budget.

Same can be said of Freddy's Dead.

*Also important to note, the Nightmare series took a powerful transition after the "Final" Nightmare. So did Tomb Raider.

And finally, Tomb Raider: Legend. Tons of similarities. The original guy is back, just like New Nightmare had. We have Toby again. We have the original gameplay, music and scenery back. So did New Nightmare.

So using this prediction :-p, we should have a 10 year wait until Tomb Raider 8. Enjoy!!!! lol and she will be up against Nicole Collard from Broken Sword.

Hope you guys read this powerful comparison between two pop culture icons, Lara Croft and Freddy Krueger.

Now it would be my dream to see them duke, it out. Who would win?

-Marc

*Also interesting to note. Freddy became the "icon" in the late 80s. Lara became the "icon" in the late 90's. They both are so opposite from each other, yet so unknown that many fans want more games and movies to find out about the past that lies within these two distinct characters.

[ 02. May 2005, 05:55: Message edited by: RaidR_84 ]

Genocide
02-05-05, 05:03
wow, that was an interesting read, thinking about it the simelarities are there, good thinking.
and in all honesty i think Freddy would beat Lara in a fight although Crofty would put up a good fight before going down

RavenLettan
02-05-05, 18:22
Personally I always found the Nightmare on Elm Street films a bit of a joke.

And everything is explained in the first movie, so there really is no need to have continued the series, it was just another Hollywood reason to try and milk a franchise.

While, I s'pose you can see the similarities.. there is a major factor that is being forgotten.

Toby Gard DID NOT CREATE LARA CROFT. Toby Gard came up with the original concept for TOMB RAIDER.

This is a VERY distinct difference that people always seem to overlook. Further to that point while he was part of the art team, it was his own premadona behaviour that lead to him buggering off (with the only guy who actually kissed his arse) to create a new team to show us 'all' that he was the creator of this fantastic new genre.

I mean c'mon Toby, you took the old platform Genre (which btw wasn't in decline in 1994 was still as popular as ever).. and helped the team to create the first of a Next Generation game.

It was a revolution because it was a 3D Platformer, I don't give a flying monkies what the hell it's called nowadays.. it is quite simply a PLATFORM GAME. 'Action Adventure' has nothing to do with damn adventuring until Tomb Raider 6... an Adventure game you have to search for clues, find and solve deviously created puzzles from the world around you.

Tomb Raiders puzzles were always developed to be simple. Specifically to keep the game flowing rather than forcing people to use thier brains too much. Your never going to be stuck in Tomb Raider because you can't figure out which combination of objects to use. You're going to get stuck because you can't find a cog in a huge cave, because it's hidden in some remote underbrush.

While the puzzles had to evolve with the genre, they really haven't become majorly more intelligent. Just like we don't call Half-Life and Action RPG do we? Well Sierra tried to, as it clearly says on my GOTY box, but still the point is... Half-Life is an FPS. While it has elements from other games it is still VERY clearly an FPS.

When you take a step back to look at the games, which games each of the fans like is very different.

Personally my favourites list goes:
TR1
TR6
TR5
TR2
TR3
TR4

Some people thought that TR4 was the best of the series, however reviewers didn't. Honestly I didn't either. I guess that's alright though given, we weren't working on it in order for it to be 'for everyone'.. it was the end game for the fans giving them what they kept biatching about in the forums.

I can't explain exactly why I don't like it much, just that.. it seems exactly what the fans were after, but not really like a Tomb Raider adventure that stands out. Everything felt like a 'been there done that' moment. Despite how many new things were added.

I also really didn't like the fact that there was no training session past the first level. No home for Lara... while it was agreed this was best for it to be a very strong story based game involving the player from the start, it was just a decision I wasn't ever comfortable with.

See this is the thing though, the games selves each stand out for thier own reasons.

In all honesty I feel that Tomb Raider 6 was more Tomb Raider than Tomb Raider 4. The focus wasn't on Lara, while yes the story was about her being framed.. the game itself actually revolved around the story and no Lara herself.

Right there is the reason why I loved it so much. As the gameplay was different, but not to the point where it felt like a different game. You still had the same range of motion available, albiet in a more realistic mannor - so slower and more methodical, but all of the moves were still there under differen controls.

It's like Tomb Raider 3... when I first played that, I hated how the Side-Step had been changed from L2 R2 to R1 Walk. After getting used to it though, I thought nothing of it.

This is completely how the Angel of Darkness controls feel to me now as well. They're annoyingly buggy at times, and not fluid.. but on the whole after getting use to them you once again feel like it's the classic control system, just changed to cater for the new playability.

The original creators, or vision of Tomb Raider hadn't changed. In-fact apart from 4 people and Lara's voice... the strong team of 25 people who started Tomb Raider were still doing it after 7 years.

Each of the additional games TR 2/3 weren't created in order to provide money for Eidos' pockets at the expense of the creativity.. but rather they were created because Core wanted to provide Lara with on-going adventures.

With Tomb Raider 4, rather than focusing on the adventures she has.. they wanted to provide you with an insight to Lara herself, while changing to the next generation console.

Providing an on-going story, yet marking the change and evolution of the game as it marked it for the original jump to 3D.

I don't think you can honestly compare the two, and I think the fans really take the games for granted.. believeing that one man is the wonder behind a given game due to his own personal claims.

It's just not true.. Tomb Raider is, and always will be a team effort from everyone. Legends will be no different, it is a very damn good game in it's own right... but not because Toby Gard has blagged his way to provide the favour of the fans, but because Crystal Dynamics is a very hard working group of development individuals who have spent the last 2years working on a game that will bring Lara back to the people as a fun and enjoyable game.

No I didn't say back to the fans, because TR4 is for the fans... Legends is for everyone.

RaidR_84
03-05-05, 01:10
Well, I know Raven. I have said many times on here that Toby was NOT the sole creator of Tomb Raider.

However, the similiarity that Tomb Raider 7 has with New Nightmare (as a series franchise pattern) is that one of the original team has come back to ressurrect the franchise.

In this case it is Toby Gard.

And you are right, the later films have become somewhat of a joke. In fact, the movie series, imo, is like dark humour. I love the dreamscapes and the dark reality of the pictures.

Camera Obscura
03-05-05, 01:15
Wow, the similarities are uncanny.

Maybe Freddy should raid tombs in a tank-top

and Lara should slash people in their dreams. Cough-kill Kurtis-cough.

RavenLettan
03-05-05, 01:29
Heh.. yeah I think what annoys me about Freddy is that he's unkillable.

Everything has a weakness and can be erased from existance, just a case of knowing how. With Freddy though each time you though 'yes the ****er's dead!' he got another dang movie!

Probably why I always prefered the Alien movies.. now they scare the bejezus out of me.
Don't think anything has ever given me such a cold chill down my spine as those beasties have.

Even when they're shown in broad daylight and you can see them for what they are, they're still truely terrifying. Perhaps because they're like insects, and as such they are very intelligent, but work on instincts to produce food and hosts. To a point where, you wonder seriously about if they could actually be real.

Heh or maybe they just get to me a little more. Still my brother was always in to bugs, so you can really see some scarey similarities.

RaidR_84
03-05-05, 02:21
Originally posted by Camera Obscura:
Wow, the similarities are uncanny.

Maybe Freddy should raid tombs in a tank-top

and Lara should slash people in their dreams. Cough-kill Kurtis-cough. that would be..unique.

lol...i meant the points about how the serii developed. :-p that would be cool though. Level Editors...up for a costume? lol

(Freddy) Lara lol...

RaidR_84
03-05-05, 02:23
I actually like the Alien movies...they are very unique.

Freddy is unique, but he is unstoppable. I guess that is a sign of a bad character....but I think hes funny. Just one more movie...thats what all the NOES fans say...including me :-p

Gomes
03-05-05, 06:16
Urgh! So many Nightmare in Elm Street movies? http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif
That is nuts, what a waste of good money! I agree with Raven (first time for everything) the first one was more than enough.

I also agree Tomb Raider is a platformer, but they changed the definitions for that gender to "action-adventure" when the games became 3D, perhapds because side scrolling platformers still existed then.

Anyone remembers the first Duke Nukem game? It was called Duke Nukum and it was very cute. :D

I've found its page can't believe 3drealms are still selling it! Greedy!
http://www.3drealms.com/duke1/index.html

Wolfestein 3D page says "Due to the game content, this game may not be ordered by residents of Germany." :eek: What?

[ 03. May 2005, 07:34: Message edited by: Gomes ]

RavenLettan
03-05-05, 14:02
Wolfenstein3D is banned in Germany.
id Software have a court order over thier heads about it actually, they're not allowed to retail Wolfenstein games in german. So they all come with this warning. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

RaidR_84
03-05-05, 14:17
Talking about Duke, I loved Time To Kill on PSX. It was so Tomb Raiderish, and you got to go through different time periods.

I also loved DN 3d.

Do you know if they are coming out with a new Duke? His humour is raunchy lol.