PDA

View Full Version : President Bush turns back on grieving mom


wantafanta
10-08-05, 21:24
http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2005/08/06/image763671x.jpg

(CBS/AP) The angry mother of a fallen U.S. soldier staged a protest near President Bush's ranch, demanding an accounting from Bush of how he has conducted the war in Iraq.

Supported by more than 50 demonstrators who chanted, “W. killed her son!” Cindy Sheehan told reporters: “I want to ask the president, 'Why did you kill my son? What did my son die for?”'

CBS News Correspondent Mark Knoller reports that the passion of Sheehan’s message reflects the polarizing effects of war and may be why some in the administration tried late last month to call the conflict something else.

Sheehan, 48, didn't get to see Bush, but did talk about 45 minutes with national security adviser Steve Hadley and deputy White House chief of staff Joe Hagin, who went out to hear her concerns.

Appreciative of their attention, yet undaunted, Sheehan said she planned to continue her roadside vigil, except for a few breaks, until she gets to talk to Bush. Her son, Casey, 24, was killed in Sadr City, Iraq, on April 4, 2004. He was an Army specialist, a Humvee mechanic.

“They (the advisers) said we are in Iraq because they believed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, that the world's a better place with Saddam gone and that we're making the world a safer place with what we're doing over there,” Sheehan said in a telephone interview after the meeting.

“They were very respectful. They were nice men. I told them Iraq was not a threat to the United States and that now people are dead for nothing. I told them I wouldn't leave until I talked to George Bush.”

She said Hagin told her, “I want to assure you that he (Bush) really does care.”

“And I said if he does care, why doesn't he come out and talk to me.”

Sheehan arrived in Crawford aboard a bus painted red, white and blue and emblazoned with the words, “Impeachment Tour.” Sheehan, from Vacaville, Calif., had been attending a Veterans for Peace convention in Dallas.

The bus, trailed by about 20 cars of protesters and reporters, drove at about 15 mph toward Bush's ranch. After several miles, they parked the vehicles and began to march, in stifling heat, farther down the narrow country road.

Flanked by miles of pasture, Sheehan spoke with reporters while clutching two photographs, one of her son in uniform, and the other, a baby picture, when he was seven months old.

She said she decided to come to Crawford a few days ago after Bush said that fallen U.S. troops had died for a noble cause and that the mission must be completed.

“I want to ask the president, `Why did you kill my son? What did my son die for?” she said, her voice cracking with emotion. “Last week, you said my son died for a noble cause and I want to ask him what that noble cause is?”

White House spokesman Trent Duffy said response that Bush also wants the troops to return home safely.

“Many of the hundreds of families the president has met with know their loved one died for a noble cause and that the best way to honor their sacrifice is to complete the mission,” Duffy said.

“It is a message the president has heard time and again from those he has met with and comforted. Like all Americans, he wants the troops home as soon as possible.”

The group marched about a half-mile before local law enforcement officials stopped them at a bend in the road, still four to five miles from the ranch's entrance. Capt. Kenneth Vanek of the McLennan County Sheriff's Office said the group was stopped because some marchers ignored instructions to walk in the ditch beside the road, not on the road.

“If they won't cooperate, we won't,” Vanek said.


©MMV, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

[ 10. August 2005, 22:25: Message edited by: wantafanta ]

nikos
11-08-05, 11:59
Brave lady,i hope someday she could learn the truth,but the time is too far yet! :(
Politicianss always said the same classic poem:
We worry more than you,we will do our best,we try hard,etc...!the know very well the fine art of hypocritism,so they can escape from difficult issues! :mad:
I remember that another lady from usa suffering from the same tragedy,arrived in greece before a few months,but i dont rememmber her name.
A single person never made something great,but is good to hear that some people still resist,still fight for theire rights!
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

Draco
11-08-05, 22:08
The title of this thread is propoganda.

crux2
11-08-05, 22:24
Ah, propaganda against old George W. It's a wonder he survived that last election.

Still, 'only in America' eh?

wantafanta
11-08-05, 22:53
The American people need to wake up. I work with a woman who has relatives in Iraq. They still get only 1 hour of electricity per day. The temperature there reaches 120 degrees. Bush thinks that training Iraqis to die instead of US troops is a solution, but it's not. It only puts different uniforms on the bodies.

Iran is far more of a danger than Iraq was. Iran is still working on atomic weapons, and so is North Korea. Iran has many terrorist groups operating there. Iraq did not have any until we sent the country into chaos. Going into Iraq has not made the US safer. Look what happened to London and Madrid!

George Bush is afraid to meet with Cindy Shehan because he knows he is responsible for her loss. He is ashamed. He knows he would look bad if he talked to her, because he doesn't have any answers for her.

[ 12. August 2005, 00:02: Message edited by: wantafanta ]

interstellardave
12-08-05, 00:58
Armies go wherever politicians want them to go, whenever politicians want them to go there. What politician has ever had a good answer for it? Sometimes, but not very many. Men and women who volunteer should know this--they abdicate responsibility for their very lives, and there is rarely what anyone would call "a good reason".

At least we don't have the horrific spectacle of the draft being in effect right now... that is a CRIME of the highest order. To be taken against your will to fight, kill, and die... barbaric. At least in this respect we have improved over Vietnam.

Flipper1987
12-08-05, 04:05
Originally posted by wantafanta:
George Bush is afraid to meet with Cindy Shehan because he knows he is responsible for her loss. He is ashamed. He knows he would look bad if he talked to her, because he doesn't have any answers for her. The only problem with that comment and the one-sided article (along with that ridiculous title) that you posted wantafanta is that President Bush DID MEET WITH HER. Shortly after her son died, she visited w/ Pres. Bush & she gave glowing remarks about their meeting. Funny how CBS/AP completely omit that important piece of news.

In fact from what I've read and seen on TV, it appears that her grief has been exploited and manipulated by far left, anti-war groups (Sheehan's comments/blog are front page news on Michael Moore's webpage). In fact Sheehan's relatives have come out and criticized how she is exploiting her son's death for media attention. Those who are grieving often look for easy answers, and boy does the anti-Bush, anti-war groups have a lot of that.

It's too bad that wantafanta couldn't find a more objective, more balanced article.

FLIPPER

[ 12. August 2005, 05:18: Message edited by: Flipper1987 ]

crux2
12-08-05, 09:02
"Iraq did not have any (terror groups) until we sent the country into chaos"

oh, come on!

interstellardave
12-08-05, 11:44
Originally posted by crux2:
"Iraq did not have any (terror groups) until we sent the country into chaos"

oh, come on! Yeah, how about, hmmmm... say... Saddam Hussein??? People conveniently forget that scum-bag now. He may not have had WMD's as Bush would have us believe, but he certainly wasn't a kind, benevolent leader!

My brother-in-law is in Iraq and I can tell you that the Iraqui people are glad that Saddam has been toppled from power. I can also tell you that the trouble being stirred up over there is mostly due to terrorist groups coming in from Syria and other nations, trying to take advantage of the situation, NOT angry Iraquis who wish we'd never shown up!

While it's true that we're probably overstaying our welcome and the situation will probably worsen whether we stay or go, it was NOT some kind of peaceful utopian nation that we "heartlessly" invaded, as some would have us believe.

[ 12. August 2005, 12:49: Message edited by: interstellardave ]

nikos
12-08-05, 12:43
To my friends interstellardave and crux2!

Everyone should agree,that saddam housein was a bloody dictator,who torture iraqi people!
Its good that this man dont exist as a leader anymore but...!
You have to agree that an invasion is definetely not the correct way to free a so "difficult" nation!
Now chaos took the place of the bad regime,and nobody knows what really happens!
ALL people is fighting against the us uk invaders, and its totaly rong to believe that iraqi people support usuk colition,because an invader is always an invader,and this is the reason that us troops will remain according to mr.ramsfeld latest announcements, for 12 years more, because the situation is worst than they thought in the beggining!
All people is fighting its other in a strange civil war,for religion or national domestic reasons,and between all of them are now terrorists from al kainta,they kill anything is on their mind,and local small but very dangerous groups they doing their war against everyone and for theire own reasons and thats worst!
I dont think that this was the big idea to save a country for a bad regime by send them to chaos and anarchy!killing people for saving theire lives is a little "strange" way!
As i read,the oficial war casualties from this war are over than 100000 people without counting people woudent, or how many millions of people suffers,because they dont have food medicine,water,jobs etc...
BTW you should know that these nations,live so many years in theire own way,totaly different from ours, western way,so its impossible to give a solution there, by thinking western style!

Also i have to ask these questions!
A]there is also a dictatorhip in pakistan,but us-uk dont bother about it,but instead they cooperate with them,a lot time before they attack to iraq!why?
B]do you know that most of the iraqis who are trained now by the us army were members of the saddam's secret police and army?this why many of them join the iraqi partizans** turning against us army?
**[not terrorist please,if someone is fighting against an invader for his country is very unfair to be called as a terrorist!]

C]is fair enough to you to see your boys killed like this,just for another's countrie affair,and i will just reminds you the idea that all the world had and still have,that this war have the smell of oil?

interstellardave
12-08-05, 13:38
I'm not defending the war by any means, merely stating that toppling Saddam was not a particularly bad consequence of this war--for the Iraqi people most of all! Still, these people need to be helped now--really helped out of the dreadful situation the country is in because of the war. The American people are generous and would support helping them; but it's being done the wrong way.

If I had my way US troops would have never been there, nor would we, in whole or in part, participate with the United Nations in indenturing poor nations the world over. I would aide poor nations without indebting them; instead my government indebts these nations and we throw our military weight around. But we aren't alone in doing so. This is why the US, UK, and other western nations are being attacked by "terrorists"! These peoples cannot stand up for themselves in conventional ways so they resort to what is, in essence, a war of wills.

The problem is that when Americans are attacked they get MAD. Combine their rightful anger at a terrorist attack with their lack of any real understanding (media created ignorance) of what's going on worldwide and they are ready to support military solutions, at least in the short term.

Getting rid of Saddam, I will always maintain, was a good thing for everyone involved, BUT we should have been ready for the power-vacuum that resulted there. Everyone is ready to fill that vacuum but it's the Iraqi people who should decide. Whether even that is truly possible given the chaotic situation there is debateable.

So, what else is there to say? War, once again, has solved nothing in the end. All nations have learned this lesson at one time or another and the United States is now learning it (give us a break... we are a very YOUNG nation after all). Everyone should watch out though... if you think the US is a big problem in the world you're overlooking the next big threat: CHINA. Mark my words...

If you take a few steps back and look at the big picture, history always repeats itself until MAN himself changes his warlike ways. Until that happens you'll have your Stalins and your Hitlers, your Saddams and your Bushes, your Blairs and your Kim Jongs... And until MAN changes his way of thinking we'll fight over dwindling resources instead of investing in finding cheap, sustainable sources of energy!

Well, I've really just rambled on there... but, you get my drift... http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

[ 12. August 2005, 14:41: Message edited by: interstellardave ]

Capt. Murphy
12-08-05, 14:39
http://www.drudgereport.com/flashcs.htm

nikos
12-08-05, 18:32
HEY Interstellardave http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif !i mostly agree with you!
About china,i tell you this: we[greece first and almost all europe later] already felt the financial earthquake from china!
Cheap,extremely cheap products,smash down our [not so great] factories
i love chinese people,i try to learn theire superb philosophy and theire civilisation,but i am a little scared the way they erase so fast!
i dont like either they way they use people to work like slaves,especially children!
But take a look to the western goverments!suddenly not a word about all this "dictatorship","slavery",stuff,against china!
Coincidence?or as i believe,good contracts between western companies and chinese goverment? :mad:

interstellardave
12-08-05, 18:42
Thanks Nikos!

You know why no-one in the west talks about China and the things they do? Because they fear their military might. China has a huge military (obviously) but they've also spent decades modernising it--plus they have nukes! China is a dictatorship and eventually they will want to expand--when that happens who will stand up to them? And when/if someone like the US (or a coalition) does, whoah boy, it could be another big one if you know what I mean. :eek:

nikos
12-08-05, 18:47
Original posted by Capt. Murphy
http://www.drudgereport.com/flashcs.htm :confused: I dont get it!since when the opinion, of any kind of relative,is strongest than mother's pain? :confused:
They can tell anything they want,just because they didn't lost a child!
Its a shame for all of them,they didn't support her, with all of theire powers,even if she is not right,just because she is a mother in pain!
I respect the american way of what family is,but if they live in greece they would be humiliated by all mass media and all the people! :mad:

P.S nothing in person with you captain! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

nikos
12-08-05, 18:58
China ofcource is a big power,in military terms,but china was also very strong before 10 or more years when everyone in the west accuse them,for all that stuff i was refering!so its not the guns they fear[i dont think,that, especially usa have any reason to fear china in military terms],but something else that stings to much!
I remind you,muamar kantafi was a no1 enemy of the west!A ruthless, bad dictator, who supported terrorism,accused ITSELF for a specific terrorist action,that cost the life of many people! :mad:
Now "suddenly" tony blair first visiting,and had lovely negotiation for oil contracts,and then all europe and usa "forget" everything about him! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/mischievous.gif
I call it hypocricy!when money is good everything is ok!
P.S noone is excluded for my "arrows"!

interstellardave
12-08-05, 19:19
Nikos: I heard a report a few years back (this was not widely reported for obvious reasons) that China warned the US government not to interfere in China's "dealings" with US-backed Taiwan or else they would nuke San Francisco!

Now, believable or not, that is NOT a threat made lightly! That HAD to make US officials a little nervous! So, I do believe that the US government is fearful of Chinas military might--not to the extent that they won't criticize China; let's just say that anything regarding China will be handled very carefully!

P.S.--You're right about money seemingly making everything "okay". But it only seems that way. Greed will be the downfall of the West, if there is a downfall. If we're fighting for profit and our enemies are fighting for a real idealogy (perhaps Religion in the case of Arab nations, or Nationalism in the case of China) the west will be the first to blink (because greed is NO reason to fight when you ask the Mothers and Fathers). Just like with Vietnam they'll say "enough is enough!"

[ 12. August 2005, 20:26: Message edited by: interstellardave ]

wantafanta
13-08-05, 01:47
Originally posted by Flipper1987:
The only problem with that comment and the one-sided article (along with that ridiculous title) that you posted wantafanta is that President Bush DID MEET WITH HER. It's not a one-sided article. It is a factual account and it's function is not to be a pros vs. cons discussion. The title is not ridiculous; it is the truth. Bush is afraid other mothers will follow suit and turn into a media fiasco. He is hiding, just like he did 35 years ago in the ANG of Texas. He cannot speak without a script.

I knew all about that first meeting. Grief goes through stages. My brother was killed years ago and I saw what it did to my mom. You feel different after time passes. Mrs. Sheehan is going through stages of grief and wants real answers - not the scripted gobbledy-goop drafted by Bush's handlers. A mother's feelings for her son are special, and Mrs. Sheehan's family and relatives have no business speaking for her and butting into her business.

Bush was a liar and deceived her son. Bush skipped out of his service. Maybe Mrs. Sheehan's son would be alive if he avoided the military like Bush did way back when.

Flipper, this war is going to burn up a trillion dollars of your tax money and cost thousands more lives - maybe for years to come and not make you any safer. Bush and Cheney are a couple of Tele-tubbys. Cheney said he had "other priorties" than going to war. These two are not worth your loyalty. And no, Saddam, was not a terrorist. A brutal dictator is not a terrorist. There are lots of them around the world.

Nikos - Right on! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

[ 13. August 2005, 02:55: Message edited by: wantafanta ]

Flipper1987
13-08-05, 03:27
Wow, where to start w/ wantafanta's response. Let's see....

Originally posted by wantafanta:
It's not a one-sided article. It is a factual account and it's function is not to be a pros vs. cons discussion.But I thought journalism was supposed to be somewhat objective & present ALL the relevant facts. Considering the media circus that is following this woman & her professional protestors, you would think just a simple mention of her previous meeting w/ Pres. Bush & her positive comments about it would be somewhat relevant. Somehow the liberal mainstream media felt it wasn't. Curious.

The title is not ridiculous; it is the truth.No, it's simply your opinion. Your inability to see the simple difference is disappointing.

He is hiding, just like he did 35 years ago in the ANG of Texas. He cannot speak without a script.This rot again? I thought we were talking about Cindy Sheehan & the article.

I knew all about that first meeting.Yet the international community (like Nikos) who visits these forums most likely did not. But I think you knew that already.

Grief goes through stages. My brother was killed years ago and I saw what it did to my mom. You feel different after time passes. Mrs. Sheehan is going through stages of grief and wants real answers......A mother's feelings for her son are special....First, I'm sorry to hear about your brother.

Second, it's true that Mrs. Sheehan has experienced a lot of grief, but I seriously doubt that your mom was radicalized like Mrs. Sheehan, and in such a short time.

...Mrs. Sheehan's family and relatives have no business speaking for her and butting into her business.Well they're not "speaking for her;" they're alarmed about her dramatic change in behavior & I'm sure they fear that she has been hijacked (& is being used) by anti-war extremists.

And by the way who are you to say that family members do not have a right to speak up and be concerned about Cindy Sheehan's actions? I thought everyone had the right to speak up & voice their opinion in this country.

Bush was a liar and deceived her son. Bush skipped out of his service. Maybe Mrs. Sheehan's son would be alive if he avoided the military like Bush did way back when.If I wanted to read ridiculous propaganda from MoveOn.org & Michael Moore, I would have gone to their respective websites.

Flipper, this war is going to burn up a trillion dollars of your tax money and cost thousands more lives...I assume you pay taxes as well.

Bush and Cheney are a couple of Tele-tubbys.Usually if one wants their opinions to be taken seriously, they don't resort to such puerile name-calling.

And no, Saddam, was not a terrorist. A brutal dictator is not a terrorist.ROFLMAO!!!!! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/vlol.gif Tell that to the people of Iraq, especially the Kurds. Tell that to the 300,000+ found in mass graves so far. Good Lord, I can't believe you made such an incredibly stupid statement!

Also, some radicals like to label Bush as a terrorist (largely b/c of their seething hatred for him), yet labeling Saddam Hussein with the "terrorist" moniker is out of bounds? Give me a break!

There are lots of them (terrorists) around the world.Yes & some of them have traveled to Iraq and are trying to sabotage the attempt by Iraqis to set up a democratic government.

FLIPPER

[ 13. August 2005, 05:33: Message edited by: Flipper1987 ]

nikos
13-08-05, 08:11
interstellardave: http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif
Thats true!every nation use everything that have in their invertory,to get what they want!
The underground field of financial negotiation,in my opinion ofcource,is dirtiest than a real battlefield! :mad:
Many times "weak", militarily,and financially countries,should follow a superpower or a very strong neighbour just because of fear!
History but mostly at present time the examples are so many,that we have to talk for centuries,and talk for almost all countries of the world,except scandinavians i think,so i prefere not to mention names now,because the weather is so hot,and i dont want to put in flames all people here!lol!

AS ABOUT YOUR LAST P.S
""P.S.--You're right about money seemingly making everything "okay". But it only seems that way. Greed will be the downfall of the West, if there is a downfall. If we're fighting for profit and our enemies are fighting for a real idealogy (perhaps Religion in the case of Arab nations, or Nationalism in the case of China) the west will be the first to blink (because greed is NO reason to fight when you ask the Mothers and Fathers). Just like with Vietnam they'll say "enough is enough!"

I just http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif you!

Hallo WANTAFANTA everything ok? http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

Hallo FLIPPER welcome back!
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif


Ho boy i am jealous! a great fight here and i cant join,because i dont know many things about that issue! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-1.gif

I Wonder, boys if the weather in chicago is too hot,what about in missuri?lol!
IN greece if you ask 39 celsius degrees!thanks got is a great opportunity to run in a near to peiraus island,i wish to get you both there, to
"FIGHT UNDER SHADOW" as the ancient spartan fighters use to say!
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

fishlikelong
13-08-05, 08:46
OMG. I seriously can't stand that man. I honestly hate him. I don't live in America but I feel sorry for those who have 2 put up with a president like that. This war on Iraq isn't just about terrorists. It's also about the oil. Bush doesn't want his oil supply stopped.
Argh, that man makes me so mad!!!

crux2
13-08-05, 12:30
As a student of history I do not feel inclined to comment strongly on the middle eastern situation as yet.

History is often written by the victors, and in this modern age twisted/adapted by the media. It is for these reasons that I do not side with the pro/anti war factions. It is simply too early to pass an overall judgement without all the facts.
It will be many, many years before we can sit back and make accurate statements about the overall nature of this conflict.

Smaller details can be commented on. My "oh, come on" comment was over a much smaller detail and did not represent my overall opinion. Saying that there were no terror groups in pre-war Iraq was an ill thought out comment I think. There will be terror groups of one form or another in virtually every country. To say that Iraq didn't have any pre-war is frankly ludicrous.

I leave you with this saying. I don't claim to have thought of it but it seems relevant here. As much as we all love the 'world peace' idea, due to human nature, its about as likely as Bush or Blair apologising for the war.

"Naked force has resolved more issues throughout history than any other factor. The contrary opinion that violence never solves anything is wishful thinking at its worst. People who forget that end up paying the price."

Capt. Murphy
13-08-05, 13:27
Ever hear of something called 'The Superior Virtue of the Oppressed’...?

Yes. This lady lost her son in Iraq; and of course that is a terrible thing. But in a way she is denying the sacrifice of other soldiers who lost their lives and/or the families of those soldiers who are proud of their loved ones' sacrifices'.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's what makes this country great.