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tlr online
13-08-05, 22:32
German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder has warned the US to back away from the possibility of military action against Iran over its nuclear programme. His comments come a day after President Bush reiterated that force remained an option but only as a last resort.

Iran has resumed what it says is a civilian nuclear research programme but which the West fears could be used to develop nuclear arms. Germany, France and the UK have led efforts to end the crisis peacefully.

"Let's take the military option off the table. We have seen it doesn't work," Mr Schroeder told Social Democrats at the rally in Hanover, to rapturous applause from the crowd.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41375000/jpg/_41375981_isfahan203body.jpg

www.bbc.co.uk (http://www.bbc.co.uk)

Apofiss
14-08-05, 07:50
"Let's take the military option off the table. We have seen it doesn't work,"I'd like to know, will they gona fight with words against the nuclear arms usage possibility (though it's a long and complicated process to succeed)? I would vote for words of course, but it seems like "never ending story".

Draco
14-08-05, 08:22
Good move, tell the whole world you won't fight if you get punched in the nose.

Mona Sax
14-08-05, 10:23
Schröder is trying desperately to save his job with elections just around the corner. Focusing on external affairs (and taking an anti-american position like the majority of the people in Germany) is his only chance as he has failed to solve Germany's internal problems.

crux2
14-08-05, 11:45
I've already posted this phrase somewhere else but here it is again for the benefit of Mr Schröder:

"Naked force has resolved more issues throughout history than any other factor. The contrary opinion that violence never solves anything is wishful thinking at its worst. People who forget that always end up paying the price."

Capt. Murphy
14-08-05, 14:31
" http://www.tombraiderforums.com/forums/icons/icon14.gif "?

...I mean -- Seriously. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/privateeye.gif

But I guess it's okay to trust Iran. Especially since they haven't even done anything yet. :D

I don't wear a seat belt when I drive. Why should I? I haven't got hit yet.

Gomes
14-08-05, 14:49
Fear is irrational.

Sifo-Dyas
14-08-05, 16:04
The world is dying and the more we try to save it ... the more we seem to harm others. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-1.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-1.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-1.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-1.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-1.gif

As difficult and irrealistic as this is gonna sound ... they should all sit together and have every single weapon destroyed. Then, when there's another disagreement or argument or fight or even war, they could fight with sticks and give their enemies bruises rather than destroy hundreds of thousands of lives. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[ 14. August 2005, 19:44: Message edited by: Sifo-Dyas ]

tlr online
14-08-05, 18:10
Originally posted by Sifo-Dyas:
As difficult and irrealistic as this is gonna sound ... they should all sit together and have every single weapon destroyed. Totally agreed. Accept some folk 'need' to use the threat of violence because they are incapable of anything else.

Catapharact
14-08-05, 20:06
Originally posted by crux2:
I've already posted this phrase somewhere else but here it is again for the benefit of Mr Schröder:

"Naked force has resolved more issues throughout history than any other factor. The contrary opinion that violence never solves anything is wishful thinking at its worst. People who forget that always end up paying the price." Pulllezzze :rolleyes: . If you must know, the author of that book saw democracy as a corrupt system or government that was so fragile, it would collapse. I would not use Starship troopers as my quote book.

Iran hasn't at all shown that it is a threat. It has every right to pursue a Nulear program as any other country without being labled a rouge state. North Korea at the moment shows more viable threat than Iran does and yet the U.S. don't do anything about that.

Now I wonder... Is this all about the multi-million doller oil contract that Iran has signed with China? :confused:

Catapharact
14-08-05, 20:08
Oops! Sorry for the double post :(

[ 14. August 2005, 21:17: Message edited by: Catapharact ]

crux2
14-08-05, 23:13
Just because it comes from a movie that does not make it irrelevant or indeed wrong. :(

I remember one of the bond villains saying something like-

'the difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success'

^ that came from a piece of fiction too, but if you're willing to read it as a statement rather than as a line from a movie then its just as relevant as anything we come up with of our own accord http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

My problem is with Schroder's given quotes. It's frankly quite ludicrous to suggest that 'military action doesnt work'. Military action is used so over our entire history because it does seem to work. There will never be a wonderful, please everyone, happy bunny solution to problems like these. Mankind is one long history of war, conquest and counter-conquest.

war solves problems.

war creates problems.

Whenever we deal with one problem another rears its head. the only difference our course of action makes is how many people we lose along the way. The conflict in Iraq is hotly disputed but no one can say with any 100% certainty whether it was the best thing to do.

If we go to war people at home complain and the terrorists dig deeper and retaliate.

if we do nothing then the terrorist become emboldened and people at home say were not doing enough.

It is far, far too early for Schroder to say that the military action taken by the US has failed and its bloody short sighted of him to imply that military action does not work period.
It will be many, many years before we know the all the facts and are able to formulate accurate ideas of what is right or wrong about this whole sorry affair.

If what MonA saX says is true then my opinion of the man falls even lower, he's made a pretty bold statement part of which, IMO, is ill-thought out bull****.

Capt. Murphy
15-08-05, 12:49
Originally posted by Sifo-Dyas:
As difficult and irrealistic as this is gonna sound ... they should all sit together and have every single weapon destroyed. Then, when there's another disagreement or argument or fight or even war, they could fight with sticks and give their enemies bruises rather than destroy hundreds of thousands of lives. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/vlol.gif Until someone makes a stick with a nail in it. :D

Sorry. I couldn't resist. ;)

Sifo-Dyas
15-08-05, 13:23
LOL! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/vlol.gif

You shouldn't be laughing with this, but in the mean time ... it was funny! :D

Flipper1987
15-08-05, 23:53
Originally posted by Catapharact:
Iran hasn't at all shown that it is a threat.Right :rolleyes:

It has every right to pursue a Nulear program as any other country without being labled a rouge state.The major problem is that many people don't trust Iran when they claim that they'll only use these nuclear plants for peaceful, civilian uses. They lied about having a nuclear program for 20 years (exposed in November 2004), & intelligence has uncovered that Iran has secretly constructed facilities that could weaponize spent nuclear rods & fuel. These are serious concerns, especially since Iran has long been a sponsor of terrorism. That's why the E3 (GB, France, & Germany) have been pursuing a diplomatic solution for a while now. Interestingly, Iran's negotiating tactics (dramatic statements, delay, broken agreements, etc...) are eerily similar to the way North Korea has been dealing with the US. To suggest that Iran is not a threat is naive.

North Korea at the moment shows more viable threat than Iran does and yet the U.S. don't do anything about that.Well you simply haven't been paying attention for at least the last couple years. The US has attempted to hold multi-nation talks with North Korea (they just had meetings last week!) to see if they can isolate Kim Jong-Il & get him to abandon his nuclear weapons program. Needless to say, the North Koreans have been extremely difficult during this process.

FLIPPER

[ 16. August 2005, 00:59: Message edited by: Flipper1987 ]

DREWY
16-08-05, 02:57
I think if you were to put all leaders on the frontline you would have very few wars. In fact, any one who wants a war. Or bare knuckles. Bruised egos and no one innocent gets hurt.

nikos
16-08-05, 18:19
DREWY,you said exactly the truth,using only a few words! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

My opinion,
1]every nation,big or small,democratic sosialistic dictatorhip,christians,muslims,jews or whatever it is, should destroy all nuclear and chemical weapons!
2]nuclear power is splendit for giving us cheap and stable energy for generations,but is so dungerous,and so easy to turn to a mass destruction weapon http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/yikes.gif
So its should be stoped,and give its place to natural origins of energy,warter,air,sun etcc.... http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

Isabella
16-08-05, 19:04
This strays a bit off topic but it springs from the same sorid well.


Link (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/14/opinion/14rich.html?ex=1124683200&en=4bcd44283d71655c&ei=5070&emc=eta1)


Once the horse is dead, shouldn't one stop the beating?

[ 16. August 2005, 20:07: Message edited by: Isabella ]

Draco
16-08-05, 21:13
That's pretty left leaning and on some points a stretch, but it does have some points.