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ASmith
31-08-04, 18:19
I am building a new system and have everything selected except a video card. How good do you think the Nvidia 6600gt will be? My specs are as follows:

Motherboard: Asus P5AD2
Processor: Intel Pentium 4 3.4 ghz (prescott)
Video card: Nvidia 6600 gt or ATI X600xt?
RAM: 1gb Corsair XMS2 (DDR 2)
Hard Drive: Western Digital 160gb SATA
Misc: 480 watt antec power supply, NEC multi format dual layer dvd burner, sony dvd/cd rom, floppy drive.

If anyone knows of a better video card for the price I would be interested to know about it. Also this will be the first system I have ever built. Although I have performed many different types of upgrades. How hard is it to build, do you guys have any tips for a first time build? Thanks :D

HERE (http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Features/6600series/) is a link to the card.

Neteru
31-08-04, 18:56
Until the guys who know about graphics cards come along, maybe you'll find this review of the ATI X600 XT (http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=1012&s=1) useful in helping you to decide. They even tested it with Tomb Raider AOD! ;)

[ 31. August 2004, 19:59: Message edited by: Neteru ]

ASmith
31-08-04, 19:07
Thanks i'll check it out. ;)

laracroft8290
31-08-04, 19:27
-edit-

I just saw what Motherboard you are using. It has PCI Express. Lemme do some research.

If you are building your system and you need a card ASAP then you'll have to go with the x600XT. Newegg.com has it for $225.00. The next card up is the X800XT which is 600.00.

But I have to ask, are you building a multimedia PC where you'll be encoding audio/video, editing digital video, or are you building a gaming PC?

[ 31. August 2004, 20:52: Message edited by: laracroft8290 ]

ASmith
31-08-04, 21:10
Yeah the p5ad2 has pci-express, I saw the x800 on newegg; if my budget allows i won't have any problem getting it but since the 6600 is suposed to be around half the price i was thinking about it primarily. I will be mainly using the pc for games but will also do some video/audio encoding and of course all the other everyday pc tasks. Thanks for the replies

laracroft8290
31-08-04, 21:46
An X800XT is the best money can buy in the PCI Express area. Like I said if you don't need it asap wait for a review or two of the 6600 then make your decision.

An Athlon64 based system with a 256MB geforce 6800 Ultra will be about the best money can buy, though you will take a slight hit in the audio/visual encoding/editing area http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/whistle.gif

Simulation
31-08-04, 22:06
It looks like the 6600GT will be good mid-range priced card using the NV40 GPU with full support for DX9.0c and 128MB of GDDR3.
The problem is there is no independent benchmarks that I can find as yet.

ASmith
31-08-04, 22:56
I think I will just stick with the x600 xt for now and the upgrade to the x800 xt later. Since this will be the first system i have ever built is there anything i should be careful about when assembling anything?

ASmith
01-09-04, 03:41
If I go with the x800 xt here (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=14-121-517&depa=0&manufactory=BROWSE) with the current system configuration will the 480 power supply be enough or should I go with a larger one? Thanks.

laracroft8290
01-09-04, 04:11
It has an auxiliary PCI Express graphic power connector, which I think comes with the card but I can't be 100% sure so you might want to contact Newegg and ask.

Beyond3D said that based on PCI Express spec the card should be able to run without the auxiliary power, but you may want to have it just in case.

If you're getting an antec 480w true power then yeah it should be enough.

Draco
01-09-04, 06:02
PCI Express won't be a big performance gain over AGP in regards to graphics accelerators for a lil while yet. But if you intend to get it, might as well use it anyway...

Joseph
01-09-04, 09:39
I have nothing to add to this, ASmith. X800 XT = http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif You are building one serious supermachine! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif
In a few months i hope to upgrade mine, or go all new with a BTX configuration. (Working hard and saving first. :rolleyes: )

ASmith
01-09-04, 12:44
Originally posted by laracroft8290:
It has an auxiliary PCI Express graphic power connector, which I think comes with the card but I can't be 100% sure so you might want to contact Newegg and ask.

Beyond3D said that based on PCI Express spec the card should be able to run without the auxiliary power, but you may want to have it just in case.

If you're getting an antec 480w true power then yeah it should be enough.Yeah it is an Antec true power. I checked about that pci-express graphic card power connector, the x800 xt comes with an adaptor that accepts a molex connector. Well I guess it's time to build, I can't wait. Thanks for the help.

laracroft8290
01-09-04, 14:48
Originally posted by joseph:
I have nothing to add to this, ASmith. X800 XT = http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif You are building one serious supermachine! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif
In a few months i hope to upgrade mine, or go all new with a BTX configuration. (Working hard and saving first. :rolleyes: )hehehe AMD Athlon64 FX53 @ 2.4GHz is the gamers dream atm http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/mischievous.gif

ASmith
01-09-04, 18:41
I would go with AMD but I guess I am just too favorable towards Intel. :D Now that my first round of parts is on the way I am getting a bit nervous. I know how to assemble everything but I am a bit nervous about configuring the system. :eek: Once everything is all put together, how much work will I have to do in the BIOS to get everything configured?

Joseph
01-09-04, 18:42
Originally posted by laracroft8290:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by joseph:
I have nothing to add to this, ASmith. X800 XT = http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif You are building one serious supermachine! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif
In a few months i hope to upgrade mine, or go all new with a BTX configuration. (Working hard and saving first. :rolleyes: )hehehe AMD Athlon64 FX53 @ 2.4GHz is the gamers dream atm http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/mischievous.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah i noticed, Aaron! :cool:
But isn't it a fact that a 64 bit cpu will not play current games faster because they are written in 32 bit language? And that only next game generation will be written in 64 bit? Or am i wrong. Can you tell me more about that? :confused:

[ 01. September 2004, 20:04: Message edited by: joseph ]

Joseph
01-09-04, 19:02
ASmith, the motherboard will have a booklet with it. And ASUS explanations are very good, you will notice that, trust me.
I used also a thick book with explanations and advices about most BIOS settings. You could probably find similar on the internet: i recently found a website specialized in BIOS - settings, but it is in German language. Search with google for "bios settings" and i guess you'll find some.
I built my computer myself, i like people who do that too! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif Oh... i was nervous when i started. I did it veeery slowly. Reading booklet, logical thinking, asking guys in computershop where i bought the parts my questions when i had doubts... oh man it was satisfying seeing everything going perfectly well under my nervous hands, booming heart when i plugged in and pressed the "on" button. Full success first time. Nice memory. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Joseph
01-09-04, 19:12
ASmith: "how much work"? One day. You assemble, and install Windows. I would advise you to install a dual-boot system Windows 98 or ME / and WinXP if you like to play older games like Tombraider 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 without any patch. Next day, you configure BIOS and Registry more detailed. Write all your settings down, or use notepad to make a textfile of all your settings. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

[ 01. September 2004, 20:26: Message edited by: joseph ]

ASmith
01-09-04, 22:54
Thanks for all the good advice Joseph. I don't reeally have aneed for a dual boot system I will just play all the old games on my old comp. It's nice to know that the documentations with Asus boards is good that will really help. I have some of the parts now but I will get the rest when I save a bit more $. Hopefully in about another month or so I will have everything to get up and running. I can't wait to see how AOD will play on this thing. :D It will be a big difference going from a computer with a 500mhz amd k62 2 and a ati 9200 http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/yuck.gif to a system with a 3.4ghz p4 and a ati x800 xt. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

[ 02. September 2004, 13:43: Message edited by: ASmith ]

laracroft8290
02-09-04, 03:36
Originally posted by joseph:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by laracroft8290:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by joseph:
I have nothing to add to this, ASmith. X800 XT = http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif You are building one serious supermachine! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif
In a few months i hope to upgrade mine, or go all new with a BTX configuration. (Working hard and saving first. :rolleyes: )hehehe AMD Athlon64 FX53 @ 2.4GHz is the gamers dream atm http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/mischievous.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah i noticed, Aaron! :cool:
But isn't it a fact that a 64 bit cpu will not play current games faster because they are written in 32 bit language? And that only next game generation will be written in 64 bit? Or am i wrong. Can you tell me more about that? :confused: </font>[/QUOTE]The Athlon64 can handle both 32 and 64 bit instructions and applications without a problem.

To showcase the performance in games.... GO HERE (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7) http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/mischievous.gif

ASmith
02-09-04, 23:00
Wow I never knew AMD processors were so much faster :eek: . In my opinion though if you do anything other than gaming on your pc AMD isn't the best choice. I think I will just stick with Intel.

laracroft8290
03-09-04, 02:26
Reason for that may be sheer clockspeed, but it could be because of other factors as some encoding programs are designed to take advantage of intel specific instruction sets. Don't quote me on that tho http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-3.gif

[ 03. September 2004, 03:28: Message edited by: laracroft8290 ]

Joseph
03-09-04, 09:27
ASmith, you didn't mention the case. Your Pentium4 is going to be very hot when you're gaming. Use a case that also has fans at the front and at the top.

Simulation
03-09-04, 11:22
AMD ROCKS http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

The Price and Performance of AMD knock Intel out of the ring. It's just a shame that the General Public don't realise this.

Joseph
03-09-04, 13:27
Yes, Sim. And i am waiting at least till end of this year and see what Intel has to offer by then, then i'll decide if i go with Intel again, or AMD. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-3.gif

[ 03. September 2004, 14:28: Message edited by: joseph ]

laracroft8290
03-09-04, 16:06
Originally posted by joseph:
ASmith, you didn't mention the case. Your Pentium4 is going to be very hot when you're gaming. Use a case that also has fans at the front and at the top.Yeah that was the other thing I was going to mention the intel's run hot...if you buy a "retail" unit on newegg you get a stock cooling fan and heat sink which should be enough if you don't plan on overclocking.

ASmith
04-09-04, 03:00
Originally posted by laracroft8290:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by joseph:
ASmith, you didn't mention the case. Your Pentium4 is going to be very hot when you're gaming. Use a case that also has fans at the front and at the top.Yeah that was the other thing I was going to mention the intel's run hot...if you buy a "retail" unit on newegg you get a stock cooling fan and heat sink which should be enough if you don't plan on overclocking.</font>[/QUOTE]Yeah that's exactly what I plan to do is get a retail cpu so that I can get a heatsink and fan. I don't plan on overclcoking the cpu, here (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=11-129-144&depa=0&manufactory=BROWSE) is the case I plan on using. It has 2 120mm fans one intake and one exaust. It is my understanding that 1 120mm fan is equilivent to 2 80mm fans just a lot quieter.

Joseph
04-09-04, 09:23
ASmith, your case is a beauty. :eek:
Here (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-112-024&depa=0) is mine.
You are right about the fans, but still i'm afraid cooling will be a bit of a weak point: your3.4 Ghz CPU is known to get extremely hot, so its fan wil be very busy. My case has also a fan just above the cpu. Although i don't need it, so i haven't connected it; my Pentium4 @ 2.66 Ghz / 533 has never been hotter than 49 degrees Celsius, while yours can reach boiling point.
In fact, we should excghange our cases. :D

Anyway, on the ASUS CD, you will find AsusProbe, install it. It monitors the cooling fans, and the temperature, etc, even has an alarm function. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

ASmith
04-09-04, 19:58
Thanks Joseph I like your case also :D . I am getting ready to get a few of the parts. Since I can't get them all at once what you recommend getting first. I was thinking about getting the motherboard cpu and ram first. What do you think?

daventry
04-09-04, 22:23
This is what i'm gonna buy in the middle of next year. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/bash.gif

Nvidia Geforce 6800 AGP8X 128mb

Asus nForce2 AMD Motherboard

512mb ddr 400

Case - not sure what type or how big, so don't ask. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Um one question, how do i know what Pentium i will get. I think i have a Pentium 4, any idea where i go see what Pentium i have. :confused:

[ 04. September 2004, 23:29: Message edited by: daventry ]

ASmith
05-09-04, 03:21
Originally posted by daventry:
This is what i'm gonna buy in the middle of next year. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/bash.gif

Nvidia Geforce 6800 AGP8X 128mb

Asus nForce2 AMD Motherboard

512mb ddr 400

Case - not sure what type or how big, so don't ask. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Um one question, how do i know what Pentium i will get. I think i have a Pentium 4, any idea where i go see what Pentium i have. :confused: Why don't you try downloading this application HERE (http://www.cpuid.com/download/cpu-z-123.zip) it will tell you all sorts of info about your cpu.

Joseph
05-09-04, 08:35
Originally posted by daventry:
This is what i'm gonna buy in the middle of next year. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/bash.gif

Nvidia Geforce 6800 AGP8X 128mb

Asus nForce2 AMD Motherboard

512mb ddr 400

Case - not sure what type or how big, so don't ask. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Um one question, how do i know what Pentium i will get. I think i have a Pentium 4, any idea where i go see what Pentium i have. :confused: Right click "This Computer" and choose Properties.

Or: Click Start / Run... / type in:
dxdiag
click OK. Choose to save all information.
In the textfile you can read what is in your pc.

Joseph
05-09-04, 08:50
Originally posted by ASmith:
Thanks Joseph I like your case also :D . I am getting ready to get a few of the parts. Since I can't get them all at once what you recommend getting first. I was thinking about getting the motherboard cpu and ram first. What do you think?Yeah ok, prices are sinking for ATX motherboards, because the new standard BTX is on it's way, PCIexpress is on it's way, so prices for AGP graphic gards will slowly drop...
Why not saving your money till you can buy all parts at once? A week after i built my pc, the motherboard had become 20 euro's cheaper, also the videocard and the cd-burner. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-3.gif

ASmith
05-09-04, 17:55
What exactly is BTX I havn't heard about it yet?

Joseph
05-09-04, 18:40
It is a new way of architecture within the case of a pc, and it is coming our way! Next generation PC- hardware will follow the new rules, which is based on the airflow, and the placement of the parts like the cpu. AGP will be gone, since PCI-Express is a PCI card again. The cpu more at the front, next to a front-fan. Serial-ATA with thinner cables, etc.
Read for instance more here (http://www.internetnews.com/infra/article.php/3401031) .

ASmith
05-09-04, 19:03
Seems interesting, I guess my new new computer will have it (computer after my next computer). :D

Joseph
05-09-04, 19:08
Then you'll have to wait a bit and observe the developements, like i do also. :D

laracroft8290
05-09-04, 21:43
Yeah but you won't wake up one day with the current standards a ghost of yesterday. The current standard is being phased out very very slowly.

ASmith
06-09-04, 00:55
With the current system I have now I can't afford to wait for anything else new. I already waited on ddr2 and pci express though.

Draco
07-09-04, 01:35
My next comp will still be ATX and AGP, which is fine for a while.

Joseph
07-09-04, 05:48
True, Draco, and i agree. "A while" might be half a year, or more. Pci-express is only interesting for people who do intensive media-rendering with their videos. For gaming, it does not make any difference yet. But prices for current best parts will sink when new technologies and architectures enter the stage, and that is interesting. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Sometimes the newest is the best choice: when i bought my Radeon 9700Pro, it was really the best choice. Today, it would not make sense to place a X800XT into this machine, i would better build a complete new machine.

If you go for a good quality computer that does its job reliably you don't need the newest. The newest is always too expensive anyway.

laracroft8290
07-09-04, 14:09
The review is up for 6600GT

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2196

Joseph
07-09-04, 14:41
Very good! Thanks for this review Aaron! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

laracroft8290
07-09-04, 15:00
I think ASmith said they were going to get the PCIe version of the X800XT so that'll be really really nice.

ASmith
08-09-04, 02:57
Yeah I was going to get the x800xt but I decided that was too much to spend on a graphics card. I decided to get a 19in lcd (samsung 193p) instead of a 17in (samsung 172x). If the 6600 gt is out when i get the money saved up (just a bit more to go :D ) I will get it. Otherwise i'll just get the x600 xt. I looked at the frame rates for that card and consider it to be good. One question though, what is considered a "playable" frame rate? Isn't it like 30 fps or more?

laracroft8290
08-09-04, 03:01
eek...if you can, get at least the 6600GT, cause u will be happier in the end. As for framerates I read somewhere that the human eye can't/won't see any difference above 60 fps....but you will be able to see more detail with a better card. How true that is I have no idea.

ASmith
08-09-04, 03:51
Yeah I definetely won't get anything less than the 6600 gt. If I do get my hands on enough $ to get the x800xt I will, but chances of that are slim :rolleyes: . When will the 6600 gt be out?

ASmith
14-09-04, 18:31
In my search for a pci-express graphic card I have decided that I want something a bit better than the 6600 gt. I though I could get a x800xt but the price on those is as high as $700 :eek: . I have now found the 6800 gt pci-express card but can't seem to find anywhere to get one. HERE (http://www.beyond3d.com/previews/nvidia/nv45/) is a link, does anyone know when these will be avaliable?

Joseph
14-09-04, 18:49
Hi ASmith http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif Already suffering from the "newest of the newest" feaver eh?
Give it a couple of months, i'd say. But it will be too expensive at first, patient people who wait watching these impressive new developements to settle, will pay a lower price anyhow. ;)

[ 14. September 2004, 19:50: Message edited by: joseph ]

ASmith
14-09-04, 19:43
I think my current system with a 500mhz amd k6-2 and 256mb of ram justifies my impatience. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Joseph
14-09-04, 19:52
Yes! Well, you could buy the current best, because the prices are sinking: shops are preparing for the new things. But if you keep following the newest developements, you never get to build your new pc, because the system you just built will always be out of date next month anyway.

ASmith
15-09-04, 01:03
Yes, I realize that anything new now will be obsolete in a few months but these new technolgies could become the way of the future. For example the Nvidia 6800 ultra and ATI x800xt pe COULD be the last high-end AGP graphic cards. In the future it is likely that all graphic cards could go to pci-express. Now why would I want to buy the top of the line AGP card now and then in a couple of years be unable to upgrade because I lack a pci-express mobo? I understand that AGP will probably be around for quite a while to come though. If I buy a agp mobo it could end up like my current computer with it's ISA slot.

Draco
15-09-04, 01:37
PCI Express won't be an advantage for awhile, it may be more than a year before any games take advantage of the architecture.

The best AGP now is more than sufficient for most anything you will do till HL3 or Doom 4 hehe...

ASmith
15-09-04, 01:59
Originally posted by Draco:
PCI Express won't be an advantage for awhile, it may be more than a year before any games take advantage of the architecture.

The best AGP now is more than sufficient for most anything you will do till HL3 or Doom 4 hehe...Yeah I realize that current games don't even take full advantage of Agp 8x. I was just pointing out that in the future when it is time to upgrade my new system it is likely most high end graphic cards will be pci-express. It is also likely that agp could be phased out completely. Keep in mind that I mean in like 3-5 years from now.

Draco
15-09-04, 02:03
Well if it will be that long, nothing you buy now will keep up.

PCI Express may have been phased out by then.

Also, I doubt AGP is going anywhere, it may be needing some innovation, but hardly outmoded technology. Bet we will see AGP 16x before long. Or even TAGP or something like it.

Joseph
15-09-04, 10:30
ASmith, it is likely anyway that after 2 - 3 years from now, not only you'll again want the newest graphics card, but you'll also want the much faster ram memory that are available then, and you'd have to upgrade to a new mobo that can work with these also.

SpArKy
15-09-04, 10:41
No i know this, i have a shoddy Intel Celeron in my Laptop, but i dont know what Processor i could get for my COmpaq Presario, or how to install, i instaled memory but thats easy!

AMD all the way! Most my friends have like double processors or somthing like that in there machines, OMG!

Draco
16-09-04, 02:49
Duel CPUs is a waste unless you use the programs that take advantage of it. Most programing is done for a single CPU, so the second one is wasted.

CAD and other intensive programs likely can though, so if you do alot of that, it is a worthwhile investment.

ASmith
17-09-04, 02:04
From what I have been able to tell I think the 6800gt pci express will be avaliable some time in October or November. Looking at computer manufacturers websites I see that computers with this card won't be avaliable til October. So if it will be avaliable to oem's in October maybe I can get my hands on one by November. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-5.gif The only question is at what cost :rolleyes:

ASmith
28-09-04, 18:35
6600gt almost here. :D Take a LOOK (http://www.gameve.com/gve/store/ProductDetails.aspx?sku=VC-SPARKLE-006)

laracroft8290
28-09-04, 19:05
Originally posted by ASmith:
6600gt almost here. :D Take a LOOK (http://www.gameve.com/gve/store/ProductDetails.aspx?sku=VC-SPARKLE-006)Nice http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif I've got to upgrade my system. I've been holding back for the last year or two because of money, but I'm going to bite the bullet so to speak with TR7 coming out not to mention a few other games like quake 4

ASmith
01-10-04, 01:25
Yep, looks like I might finally get my hands on that vid card. :D I just need that card, the processor, and ram and i'll be up and running. Man it's going to be jump from a system with a 500mhz processor to one with a 3400mhz processor. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/yikes.gif

Joseph
01-10-04, 10:52
Yes. But not only your new processor is much faster, your new DDR2 memory technique is much, much faster than what you were used to (must be sdram in your "old" pc). You'll also notice that your new ASUS motherboard will boot up a lot quicker than what you are used to. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif Ahh... you're going to enjoy it, that's for sure. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

ASmith
02-10-04, 02:29
Originally posted by joseph:
Yes. But not only your new processor is much faster, your new DDR2 memory technique is much, much faster than what you were used to (must be sdram in your "old" pc). You'll also notice that your new ASUS motherboard will boot up a lot quicker than what you are used to. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif Ahh... you're going to enjoy it, that's for sure. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Yeah my old pc uses sdram there is quite a difference between 133mhz and 533mhz. I now have the case, power supply, all the drives, and the motherboard; now I just need ram, cpu, and of course the 6600gt.

Joseph
02-10-04, 09:14
Sorry i didn't mention it earlier, but the best situation is always to have 2 harddisks. Best is to choose 2 identical, but in your case with a 160 GB i think you could do with a 80 GB as your first, and the 160 as your second.

The point is, that all parts of a computer can fail someday. But your hdd is your treasure, containing your precious documents. With 2 identical hdd's, </font> you would be able to save and copy documents from one to the other in case of emergency.</font> Using the first one for reading (Windows and programs), the other for writing (your documents), actions are more efficient and faster.</font> place the swapfile on a seperate partition on your second hdd</font> place an image (a compressed copy, that you make with Norton Ghost (http://www.symantec.com/sabu/ghost/ghost_personal/) or Drive Image), or more images of your main partition (containing Windows), on your second drive.</font>

[ 02. October 2004, 14:32: Message edited by: joseph ]

ASmith
03-10-04, 18:23
Originally posted by joseph:
Sorry i didn't mention it earlier, but the best situation is always to have 2 harddisks. Best is to choose 2 identical, but in your case with a 160 GB i think you could do with a 80 GB as your first, and the 160 as your second.

The point is, that all parts of a computer can fail someday. But your hdd is your treasure, containing your precious documents. With 2 identical hdd's, </font> you would be able to save and copy documents from one to the other in case of emergency.</font> Using the first one for reading (Windows and programs), the other for writing (your documents), actions are more efficient and faster.</font> place the swapfile on a seperate partition on your second hdd</font> place an image (a compressed copy, that you make with Norton Ghost (http://www.symantec.com/sabu/ghost/ghost_personal/) or Drive Image), or more images of your main partition (containing Windows), on your second drive.</font>Yeah I've actually changed the system specs as far as hard drives go. I was going to go with 2 80gig hard drives in raid 0 but now I have to go with one 80gig drive as the primary and either a 200 or 300 gig drive as a secondary storage drive. The extra speed of raid 0 (not in games) was not enough for me to double my chances of loosing data. I say this because with raid 0 if one drive in the array fails then they may as well both be dead. Do you think 80 gb will be enough as a primary drive assuming i use the secondary drive for storage of all my larger files (videos, mp3's, etc.)? Sorry for the long reply.

Joseph
03-10-04, 21:11
Do you think 80 gb will be enough as a primary drive assuming i use the secondary drive for storage of all my larger files (videos, mp3's, etc.)? Yes, your WinXP with all your applications could use a 10 - 15 GB as a comfortable place. ;) The second partition for all your games.
Second drive (third partition) for your documents) etc.
To your first remarks: i wasn't talking about RAID-configuration. You wouldn't need it, really.

[ 03. October 2004, 22:13: Message edited by: joseph ]

ASmith
03-10-04, 21:37
Originally posted by joseph:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Do you think 80 gb will be enough as a primary drive assuming i use the secondary drive for storage of all my larger files (videos, mp3's, etc.)? Yes, your WinXP with all your applications could use a 10 - 15 GB as a comfortable place. ;) The second partition for all your games.
Second drive (third partition) for your documents) etc.
To your first remarks: i wasn't talking about RAID-configuration. You wouldn't need it, really.</font>[/QUOTE]Why is it necessary to put xp on one partition and all games and other apps on another?

ASmith
03-10-04, 22:34
Joseph, I'm also undecided on what type of ram to use. I can either get DDR2 4200 RAM (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-526&depa=0) or I can get DDR2 5400 RAM (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-539&depa=0&manufactory=BROWSE) one is $100 cheaper, which one would be best?

Joseph
04-10-04, 11:12
Hi ASmith http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif . You said you already have the motherboard. The P5AD2 (DELUXE or PREMIUM) support:
Dual channel memory architecture
4 x 240-pin DIMM sockets support max. 4GB DDR2 533/400 non-ECC memory
IntelR Performance Acceleration Technology (IntelR PAT) That is the PC4200. ;)

Dual-Channel DDR2 533
DDR2 is the next generation memory technology to replace the current DDR. With initial speeds from 400 and 533MHz, DDR2 memory provides bandwidth up to 4.3GB/s. Doubled by the dual-channel architecture, the widest memory bus bandwidth 8.6GB/s is achieved on this motherboard.
ASUS P5AD2 DELUXE (http://nl.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=P5AD2%20Deluxe&langs=10)
ASUS P5AD2 PREMIUM (http://nl.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=P5AD2%20Premium&langs=10) http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

ASmith
04-10-04, 13:58
The reason I was considering the 5400 is because it is rated at up to 675mhz, I know that the board has been tested to comply with this particular 5400 ram. By default it will run it at 533mhz but it can overclock to 600mhz. I thought that it might be better to overclock memory to to 600mhz that was rated at 675mhz. Instead of trying to overclock memory rated at 533mhz to 600mhz. Is the higher mhz rating of the 5400 memory worth the extra cost, also do you know anything about the quality of corsair value select (the 4200 memory)?

Joseph
04-10-04, 18:12
I personally wouldn't overclock. You loose the guarantee and you may shorten the lifetime, parts get hotter -and your cpu gets very hot already, and the (little) performance enhancement should not be overrated.

Still, you may be interested to read these pages (http://www.cluboc.net/reviews/memory/ocz/4200el_kit/index.htm) .

And these pages (http://www.tomshardware.com/firstlook/20040716/index.html) .

And these pages about memory timings (http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040119/index-01.html#nomenclature_ram_names) .

[ 04. October 2004, 19:18: Message edited by: joseph ]

ASmith
04-10-04, 23:38
Thanks Joseph you have been very helpful as usual. I wasn't going to overclock the cpu or any other of the components at all. I was just considering doing it to the ram only. However now that you mention it there isn't a lot of difference between 533mhz and 600mhz. In this case I will just get the 4200 ram and save the extra $ for something more imporatnt. I'll let you know how things are going when I get more parts in. Also do you know of any sites where I can get ideas on how to neatly route my cables? I know how to hook everything up but I need SERIOUS help routing it all so it looks neat. Thanks.

Joseph
05-10-04, 00:29
Do you want the cables to look neat (http://www.pccasegear.com/webcontent18.htm) ? :D
Needless to say, of coarse you use round cables (http://www.pccasegear.com/category19_1.htm) . http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

[ 05. October 2004, 01:30: Message edited by: joseph ]

ASmith
05-10-04, 01:45
Yeah I have round ide cables and the hard drive is serial ata. Speaking of drives again I have a multi-format dvd burner and a dvd/cd-rom drive. I am thinking that I should run them on seperate channels, is this correct or should I just run them on the same channel? Sorry for all the questions but I'm new to this.

Joseph
05-10-04, 11:30
I'm sure that you can find that information in the booklet that goes with the motherboard, ASmith. ;)

ASmith
05-10-04, 22:51
Although there is no mention of this in the motherboard manual i will put the optical drives on seperate channels anyway. Thanks again.

ASmith
06-11-04, 03:05
I have the rest of the components installed now, I just need to figure out which 6600gt to buy. I am consideing an xfx card, has anyone had any experince with xfx? Are their cards good? Here is a LINK (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=14-150-078&depa=0) . Thanks

Apofiss
06-11-04, 09:18
I would say that BFG GeForce 6600GT is good enough ;)

See GF6600GT results - 3Dmark2003 (http://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/graka/geforce6600gt/s06.php?benchmark=3dm03)

[ 06. November 2004, 09:22: Message edited by: Apofiss ]

ASmith
09-11-04, 03:03
No one has an opition about XFX?

laracroft8290
09-11-04, 03:54
I've never read anything bad about XFX

[ 09. November 2004, 03:55: Message edited by: laracroft8290 ]

ASmith
11-11-04, 19:48
Good, because I went and decided to get the XFX, as a matter of fact it's on my desk right now. :D

Joseph
12-11-04, 00:22
Hehe, congrats! How does it look?
But what is it doing on your desk?

Apofiss
12-11-04, 17:47
Well how it works? How good is performance on FarCry and Doom3??? http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/clown.gif Thought, I'll bay it too, but still thinking - Gigabyte, XFX, BFG or ABIT??? Which one??? http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/privateeye.gif

ASmith
17-11-04, 02:14
Well now it's off my desk and installed in the sytem, I am still waiting on my processor and ram. I have the processor on order right now and it should be here in a few days. I still havn't decided on which ram to use. HERE (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-150-078&depa=1) is the XFX card, for me it was between this one and the Evga 6600gt I decided on this one because it has dual dvi output. I can't wait until the other parts get here so I can try it out. :D

[ 17. November 2004, 03:00: Message edited by: ASmith ]

ASmith
19-11-04, 01:05
Here is a picture of the card, http://img54.exs.cx/img54/9823/xfx6600gt.jpg

And this is a pic of the system, i can't wait until the last parts get here.
http://img54.exs.cx/img54/4141/AlmostFinished.jpg

Apofiss
20-11-04, 14:23
Yeah that looks cool, exspecially that XFX video card http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/clown.gif
Does it has 500Mhz CoreClock and 1000Mhz for GDDR3 memory...and and ...try to test it on Future 3DMark03 and 05!?? Waiting.... http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/privateeye.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/clown.gif

I'll bay BFG GeForce 6600GT with 256MB GDDR3!!! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/clown.gif

ASmith
20-11-04, 21:07
Originally posted by Apofiss:
Yeah that looks cool, exspecially that XFX video card http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/clown.gif
Does it has 500Mhz CoreClock and 1000Mhz for GDDR3 memory...and and ...try to test it on Future 3DMark03 and 05!?? Waiting.... http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/privateeye.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/clown.gif

I'll bay BFG GeForce 6600GT with 256MB GDDR3!!! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/clown.gif Yes it has 500mhz core 1000mhz memory, I will bench mark the system as soon as I get my ram. That will probably in another week or so. I thought about waiting for the BFG but I think this 6600gt will be enough for me. Maybe later down the road I'll get one of THESE (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=14-150-081&depa=1)

Joseph
21-11-04, 20:34
Good review of your card! Tom's Hardware Guide (http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041119/index.html) . Cool! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

ASmith
16-12-04, 14:50
I just finished it finally decided on the ram, the only benchmark I've run on it so far is Aquamark 3. I got a SCORE (http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=1291091540) of 53,761. I will benchmark it with 3dmark 03 and 05 a bit later.

Joseph
16-12-04, 16:04
That is an impressive score, ASmith. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif You must be very happy with your machine. If i would build a pc these days, i would use more or less the same parts. Your mobo for sure, the Asus P5AD2. It's the best. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif
I am sure readers (including me) would be interested in what amount of money this whole operation has cost you. Maybe you wanna share that with us too? To have an impression of what a high end system costs when you build it yourself.
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

[ 16. December 2004, 16:05: Message edited by: joseph ]

ASmith
17-12-04, 13:45
It was about $2200 for the entire operation. These are the things I got.

Asus P5AD2 Premium
Intel Pentium 4 550 (3.4ghz)
1gb Kingston DDR2
80 gb Western Digital harddrive
XFX 6600gt
Antec Neo Power 480 watt power supply
Antec p160 case
Sony DRU-710A DVD burner
Lite-On DVD-ROM
Floppy Drive
Themaltake cold cathode
Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse
Logitech game pad
Logitech Z-680 speakers
cables
software/games

Now I need to decide on a new monitor. Thinking about getting the Samsung 172x, I really want the 193p but can't afford a 19in I guess the 17in will have to do. :rolleyes:
http://img54.exs.cx/img54/1115/editedpic0kk.jpg

[ 17. December 2004, 19:34: Message edited by: ASmith ]

Joseph
17-12-04, 17:35
<a href="http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1033&page=1" target="_blank">Samsung Syncmaster 172X LCD Monitor Review

</a> .$ 580,- Good review! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif
But why TFT? The LCD technique is still so young. Buy a CRT now, at the lowest prices for a quality.
I stick to my EIZO T765 19". Absolute lovely screen. Have been enjoying it 1 years now.
I was just this evening in a deal for a bigger monitor, a secondhand EIZO T965 21". It is the best of the best CRT's. I hope this 21" will be my main, and i'll connect my current 19" to my other pc, to get rid of the Philips 17" it still has today.
Ok, the CRT 'boxes" are enormous. I guess you prefer a neat slim screen.
But for the price you are going to pay to only receive a tiny 17"... If i were you, i would certainly buy a CRT discontinued top model at least 19". Maybe in two years followed by a technically matured plasma widescreen.
A 17" is anyway too small for me.

[ 17. December 2004, 17:36: Message edited by: joseph ]

Simulation
17-12-04, 20:07
I must admit that I still prefer the CRT screens. Clean sharp image, handle higher resolutions and much cheaper.

ASmith
18-12-04, 00:48
I agree that CRT's are better monitors as far as image quality goes and they are cheaper. However, I have limited desk space and don't really have any room for a 19in crt. I am going to go and take a look at the 172x and 193p in a few days. Hopefully then I will be able to make my mind up. I know I would be happy with the 193p I just don't know if it's worth $700. If I find the 172x suitable i'll get it, if not I will either save up a bit longer and get the 193p or look for an alternative.

RavenLettan
18-12-04, 07:58
http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=582

That is a link to a Tomb Raider The Angel of Darkness, benchmark between:

X600 XT / X700 XT / 6600 GT / 5750 Standard

It confused me at first why the Standard 5750 not the Ultra version, but then looking at the benchmarks it became painfully obvious heh

.. Personally I always choose NVIDIA cards. Not because they're better performers, but because they have better customer service, better drivers, more stable cards, etc..
in my opinion a graphics card is the whole package, not just how well it can play selective games.

GeForce 6-Series noticeably outperforms it's rival Radeon X-Series in every respect, and reviewers have taken to having to put up the X800 XT PE just to make it look like Radeons are better now. Fact is that there are no reviews of the 6800 Extreme's performace, which is the XT PEs equal.

Also the note that ATi have released the X700 over the X600 in order to just keep up with the 6600. Also have recently released the X850 to keep up with the 6800.

If performance isn't just enough, the 6-Series has the technological edge, supporting DirectX 9.0c features natively that are being introduced in this years games. X-Series however are firmly stuck with DirectX 9.0b features that limit it's abilities.

In the 9-Series vs FX-Series, there was no two ways around the flaws in the FX cards. This is not a problem that is dogging NVIDIA this generation, they're back to thier original standing.
Each generation of cards have shown dramatic speed performance boosts through driver updates as the first sets of drivers are pretty **** for NVIDIA in terms of optimisation... so generally speaking what your card is capable of now it'll usually be capable of 20-30% more speed in a years time. This might not seem like much but when ATi cards are out performaning NVIDIA ones by as much as 8% currently in most games they are 'optimised' for. This means that by the end of the product life they're going to be pretty useless.

The performance boost of the X600 XT over the 9600 XT, is actually ridiculously small. Considering the X600 featurewise isn't that much more advanced, if anything it is pretty much equal in every way... not to mention it's speed being only marginally better. Question is your cash better spent on the X-Series below the X700 anyways?!

I'd say go with the 6600 GT. Image quality is now on par, speed issues are a thing of the past, NVIDIA's 6-Series has once again shown they are the market leaders, not just those creating the new technologies.

Wow I never knew AMD processors were so much faster . In my opinion though if you do anything other than gaming on your pc AMD isn't the best choice. I think I will just stick with Intel. AMDs are much quicker at lower processor speeds because they work differently internally to Intels.

Intel Pentium 4 are based on thie IA-32 Design, which has a 4-Cycle Clock, with 8-Way Instructions.

AMD user the x86-32 Design, which doesn't specify a specific clock and instruction setup... but does dictact how the core must be designed in terms of I/O.
As such since the Athlon was introduced AMD have worked to 7-Cycle Clock, with 4-Way Instructions.

This allows the AMD processor to much more quickly process data in less time, however does mean that it requires a larger cache in order to store the instructions.

Intel's Cache is again IA-32 : Data 8KB Instruction 8KB L2 (Storage) 384KB

AMD's Cache is usually : Data 64KB Instruction 64KB L2 196KB

Same cache size but setup differently. It means the AMDs can't hold longer instructions meaning they need to make more calls to the Ram, this is why HyperTransport and a DDR memory system is such a big deal to thier processors.

Intel are generally more stable as Windows follows IA-32 Design, where-as AMD are generally much quicker.
Another point, which is interesting to note is that Intel are Static Processors. This means that no matter what your doing they will *ALWAYS* be running at the specified speed set for them. AMD however are given PR (Pentium Ratings), as they are Dynamic Processors, this allows them to have a clock speed; but they only ever reach that when they need to. For general operations they slow down... it saves alot of power and unnecessary processor wear.

AMD being the first to hit 64-bit to the general consumer market, is a big blow to Intel. Given Intel set the processor standards and have been since they introduced Pentium and started fighting AMD as a rival processor rather than a rival manufacturer. Prior to Pentium, both processors were designed to the same x86-32 specifications set by IBM. (hense why PCs used to be known as IBM-Compatible)

The speed edge that 64-bit Processing gives in Windows XP 32bit is quite substancial, because the way they have been designed. It is quite ingenious actually.
At the core of the Athlon64 (x86-64) is still an x86-32 processor, the 64bit design is built around that much like the Writek Co-Processors (maths processor) was in the 486. Effectively it is a Co-Processor that works to extend the current processing abilities. So it ends up being no different to XP as any of the other speed extensions like SSE, or 3DNow!

As such you have the AthlonXP Speed of the processor + the additional speed of a the 64bit extensions, that provides roughly 1/3 the power again.

As .NET becomes more popular your going to see applications moving to natively support the x86-64 Architectures. If you've haven't played Quake2 .NET on an AMD64 Processor, I would strongly you do just to see the difference it makes for yourself.
You get nearly 95% speed boost over the equivilant 32-bit Processor.

The bigger beauty of all of this is for developers and gamers actually. Given Microsoft's .NET is what powers XNA, this is thier cross-platform DirectX Development System. What the letters stand for I have Noooooooooo idea at all, but what I do know is that you can use Visual Studio .NET... compile the code to use Any CPU.

Then you can download and run that software on any version of Windows that has .NET Framework = to what you used. For games it also requires DirectX Managed = to what you used.

With a version of Windows being created specifically for the Xenon (X-Box2) which uses IBM PowerPC Processors, and ATi R520 (X1-800) VPUs... along with the Nintendo Revoltuion on the same hardware. This means something compiled for one console, can simply be put into the DVD-Drive of the PC or rival console. Immediately will work as if it was compiled for it specifically.

AMD64s are showing the next generation of gaming, and while Intels Pentium 4 HT-64 EE is showing they're trying to create thier own version, unless they can fully integrate this stuff they're going to left behind when Windows 6 hits the shops next year.

Well anyways I hope that helps people http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Apofiss
18-12-04, 09:36
Well after two weeks there will be an upgrade to my PC too! Something like this:

AMD BArton 3200+ (2.2Ghz)
1GB Kingston DDR (400Hhz) RAM
160GB or more WD HD
MB with AGPx8 or with PCI-Express (still thinking)
ASUS GeForce 6800GT with 128MB GDDR3 (or maybe with 256MB)
17'' CRT Black-Trinitron (wellat the moment I have 15'' http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/whistle.gif )

All in all that should be good performance http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/mischievous.gif

Joseph
18-12-04, 10:08
Thanks, Raven! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif
I'd say go with the 6600 GT. He already did at 17th of November:
Originally posted by ASmith:
Well now it's off my desk and installed in the sytem, I am still waiting on my processor and ram. I have the processor on order right now and it should be here in a few days. I still havn't decided on which ram to use. HERE (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-150-078&depa=1) is the XFX card, for me it was between this one and the Evga 6600gt I decided on this one because it has dual dvi output. I can't wait until the other parts get here so I can try it out. :D

[ 18. December 2004, 10:09: Message edited by: joseph ]

ASmith
18-12-04, 14:12
Originally posted by Raven_:
http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=582

That is a link to a Tomb Raider The Angel of Darkness, benchmark between:

X600 XT / X700 XT / 6600 GT / 5750 Standard

It confused me at first why the Standard 5750 not the Ultra version, but then looking at the benchmarks it became painfully obvious heh

.. Personally I always choose NVIDIA cards. Not because they're better performers, but because they have better customer service, better drivers, more stable cards, etc..
in my opinion a graphics card is the whole package, not just how well it can play selective games.

GeForce 6-Series noticeably outperforms it's rival Radeon X-Series in every respect, and reviewers have taken to having to put up the X800 XT PE just to make it look like Radeons are better now. Fact is that there are no reviews of the 6800 Extreme's performace, which is the XT PEs equal.

Also the note that ATi have released the X700 over the X600 in order to just keep up with the 6600. Also have recently released the X850 to keep up with the 6800.

If performance isn't just enough, the 6-Series has the technological edge, supporting DirectX 9.0c features natively that are being introduced in this years games. X-Series however are firmly stuck with DirectX 9.0b features that limit it's abilities.

In the 9-Series vs FX-Series, there was no two ways around the flaws in the FX cards. This is not a problem that is dogging NVIDIA this generation, they're back to thier original standing.
Each generation of cards have shown dramatic speed performance boosts through driver updates as the first sets of drivers are pretty **** for NVIDIA in terms of optimisation... so generally speaking what your card is capable of now it'll usually be capable of 20-30% more speed in a years time. This might not seem like much but when ATi cards are out performaning NVIDIA ones by as much as 8% currently in most games they are 'optimised' for. This means that by the end of the product life they're going to be pretty useless.

The performance boost of the X600 XT over the 9600 XT, is actually ridiculously small. Considering the X600 featurewise isn't that much more advanced, if anything it is pretty much equal in every way... not to mention it's speed being only marginally better. Question is your cash better spent on the X-Series below the X700 anyways?!

I'd say go with the 6600 GT. Image quality is now on par, speed issues are a thing of the past, NVIDIA's 6-Series has once again shown they are the market leaders, not just those creating the new technologies.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Wow I never knew AMD processors were so much faster . In my opinion though if you do anything other than gaming on your pc AMD isn't the best choice. I think I will just stick with Intel. AMDs are much quicker at lower processor speeds because they work differently internally to Intels.

Intel Pentium 4 are based on thie IA-32 Design, which has a 4-Cycle Clock, with 8-Way Instructions.

AMD user the x86-32 Design, which doesn't specify a specific clock and instruction setup... but does dictact how the core must be designed in terms of I/O.
As such since the Athlon was introduced AMD have worked to 7-Cycle Clock, with 4-Way Instructions.

This allows the AMD processor to much more quickly process data in less time, however does mean that it requires a larger cache in order to store the instructions.

Intel's Cache is again IA-32 : Data 8KB Instruction 8KB L2 (Storage) 384KB

AMD's Cache is usually : Data 64KB Instruction 64KB L2 196KB

Same cache size but setup differently. It means the AMDs can't hold longer instructions meaning they need to make more calls to the Ram, this is why HyperTransport and a DDR memory system is such a big deal to thier processors.

Intel are generally more stable as Windows follows IA-32 Design, where-as AMD are generally much quicker.
Another point, which is interesting to note is that Intel are Static Processors. This means that no matter what your doing they will *ALWAYS* be running at the specified speed set for them. AMD however are given PR (Pentium Ratings), as they are Dynamic Processors, this allows them to have a clock speed; but they only ever reach that when they need to. For general operations they slow down... it saves alot of power and unnecessary processor wear.

AMD being the first to hit 64-bit to the general consumer market, is a big blow to Intel. Given Intel set the processor standards and have been since they introduced Pentium and started fighting AMD as a rival processor rather than a rival manufacturer. Prior to Pentium, both processors were designed to the same x86-32 specifications set by IBM. (hense why PCs used to be known as IBM-Compatible)

The speed edge that 64-bit Processing gives in Windows XP 32bit is quite substancial, because the way they have been designed. It is quite ingenious actually.
At the core of the Athlon64 (x86-64) is still an x86-32 processor, the 64bit design is built around that much like the Writek Co-Processors (maths processor) was in the 486. Effectively it is a Co-Processor that works to extend the current processing abilities. So it ends up being no different to XP as any of the other speed extensions like SSE, or 3DNow!

As such you have the AthlonXP Speed of the processor + the additional speed of a the 64bit extensions, that provides roughly 1/3 the power again.

As .NET becomes more popular your going to see applications moving to natively support the x86-64 Architectures. If you've haven't played Quake2 .NET on an AMD64 Processor, I would strongly you do just to see the difference it makes for yourself.
You get nearly 95% speed boost over the equivilant 32-bit Processor.

The bigger beauty of all of this is for developers and gamers actually. Given Microsoft's .NET is what powers XNA, this is thier cross-platform DirectX Development System. What the letters stand for I have Noooooooooo idea at all, but what I do know is that you can use Visual Studio .NET... compile the code to use Any CPU.

Then you can download and run that software on any version of Windows that has .NET Framework = to what you used. For games it also requires DirectX Managed = to what you used.

With a version of Windows being created specifically for the Xenon (X-Box2) which uses IBM PowerPC Processors, and ATi R520 (X1-800) VPUs... along with the Nintendo Revoltuion on the same hardware. This means something compiled for one console, can simply be put into the DVD-Drive of the PC or rival console. Immediately will work as if it was compiled for it specifically.

AMD64s are showing the next generation of gaming, and while Intels Pentium 4 HT-64 EE is showing they're trying to create thier own version, unless they can fully integrate this stuff they're going to left behind when Windows 6 hits the shops next year.

Well anyways I hope that helps people http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for the info Raven, even though AMD processors are 64 bit I think a p4 system was the best choice for me. If I could afford it I would just build a p4 system and an AMD system. :D