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Thorn
02-01-06, 15:08
Examples:
Wives do the cooking, laundry, dishes, and housekeeping.

Men are superior to women.

Only women should be teachers.

Only men should be mechanics.

Women are:
-Submissive
-Emotional
-Quiet
-Neat/Clean
-Clumsy
-Artsy
-Housewife
-Child rearing

Men are:
-Aggressive
-No Emotions
-Loud
-Messy
-Athletic
-Math and Science Oriented
-CEO
-Money Maker

We know that the majority of society at least live these stereotypes yet may not agree to them. So, do you believe in any of these?

Real Life Lara
02-01-06, 15:19
Nah... gender means nothing these days, its the person you are who defines what goals you can reach or what jobs you can do. It shouldnt be limited simply by your sex. :rolleyes:

Ampersand
02-01-06, 15:19
Another deep thread. :)

No, I don't believe in gender stereotypes. But I don't like it when it goes too far the other way, then you get crazy feminazis and the like, which I find equally distasteful. Men shouldn't treat women like slaves, and women shouldn't treat men like dogs. Admittedly, society is supposed to have its limits and boundaries, but I don't agree with either of the extremes. People who take it too far are just making more stereotypes for themselves. :)

Kamrusepas
02-01-06, 15:21
I don't believe in stereotypes.

E.g., I'm aggressive, messy, and some people say I have no emotions [which is not true... I just don't like to show certain emotions to certain people].

And I'm not definitely not submissive.

Nessie
02-01-06, 15:28
No, but then again I doubt you'll get a lot of people saying they believe in the kinds of things you said.

I think it's really smaller things than that, like boys being raised to be ambitious, strong, and not show any of their emotions, and girls being raised to be helpful, selfless, and care more for their looks than actual important issues and so on that people still actually do and it's rather concerning.
(Not that I don't like helpfulness or being able to keep control over ones feelings...)

GodOfLight
02-01-06, 15:29
please, we're all Lara Croft fans... how could be possibly believe in gender steriotypes...

Kamrusepas
02-01-06, 15:32
.... and girls being raised to be helpful, selfless ...


:vlol: That's just so not me.


please, we're all Lara Croft fans... how could be possibly believe in gender steriotypes...

Excellent point :tmb:

Thorn
02-01-06, 15:34
Perhaps this isn't the best place to ask such a question. Yet I doubt I would receive the truth either way.

ambico17
02-01-06, 16:19
I believe in them. Why else would we have them? They tend to be true, but not all the time.

I'm male and I'm not messy. I'm a bit of a neat freak. And I don't like math, just the fractions. Can't add them, subtract, divide, multiply them. Never liked them!

Also I don't think women are quite. Seems to me all they want to do is yap yap yap. Why is it I see women talking on cell phones more than men? YAP YAP YAP. Ecspecially when they are driving!! YAP YAP YAP

We will ALWAYS have stereotypes as long as humans are alive. Some types do diminish over time. When I was growing up, women with tattoos were considered to be slutty and prostitutes. Now look around. It seems to be the 'thing' to do. But personally I still don't like to see a woman with tattoos. I find it gross, a big turn off.

Melonie Tomb Raider
02-01-06, 16:26
Well I wouldn't say steriotype, but I do believe in traditional values. I think that some of what was said was definitely exaggerated. Firstly, I don't think there is anything wrong wtih a woman working outside of the home; however, I believe that if she has a family (husband and kids) then she has obligations there, and I think that the woman should be with her children and take care of the house. It's a better lifestyle for children to have their mother around instead of staying at daycare.

One thing I don't understand is how people feel like a woman's work is degrading. In all honesty, a man can't do a woman's job. Well, most can't any way. Women and men are different, and I believe that women are more cut out for the job of taking care of a home than men. Women are nurturing, and that's a requirement for a happy home. The fact is, it's work. Why would anyone feel degraded by it?

Another thing I don't understand is how a lot of wives refuse to fulfill her obligations in the home because she feels it's degrading, YET she expects her husband to not only work all day, but to also come home and do all the housework. That's just pure laziness, and way too much to ask a guy to do. A husband and a wife have to work as a team, and if both of them are doing the same thing, then how will everything else get done? Also, some women try to do both. Work and take care of the house. Sure, it can be done, but not to the extent that it should. You can't be completely focussed on two things at once, and for that, the family suffers.

Also, something else that bugs me is how people think that a homemaker cannot be independant. Just because a woman may sta at home and tend to her obligations there, does not mean that she is weak and lowly. Why would working outside of the home make you a stronger person than working inside the home? They're both work.

In regards of the submissive subject though, I have to say I agree with that. Although not to the extent that people might think purely off the statement. I don't believe a woman is supposed to be controlled by a man or anything, she should be her own individual; however, in a marriage, I find it a little mixed up for a woman to be the breadwinner and head of the household. I think that decisions need to be made by the husband and the wife, as a team effort, but sometimes the man has to step up to the plate and fulfill his obligations as the family provider and leader. Women are a lot more emotional than men, it's just a fact. Even women who aren't near as emotional as most still are more emotional than men. We all know that emotions can get in the way, as they influence a great deal of our decisions. That's why I think that it would be more difficult for a woman to be making all of the crucial decisions for her family. It's a lot to risk... Not that a wife shouldn't have any input, I think she definitely should.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against females working outside of the home or anything. I myself am in college and I will have a job; however, if I ever make the decision to get married and have a family, then I have obligations there, and I wouldn't let something as small as an outside job be my main priority (I'd give up my job for my family if that were the scenario). In all reality, if a woman wants to work outside of the home and be so independant and all, then she shouldn't get married and have a family. You can't have both (well, you can, but I can't say that I believe you would be very successful). In a marriage, both the husband and wife give up their independance and work as one person. It goes both ways... No gender is better than the other, they both just have different obligations. If they had the same, then it totally defeats the purpose of their being two genders in teh first place.

Nessie
02-01-06, 16:26
:vlol: That's just so not me.
Hardly me either, actually. =P

Kamrusepas
02-01-06, 16:48
Also I don't think women are quite. Seems to me all they want to do is yap yap yap. Why is it I see women talking on cell phones more than men? YAP YAP YAP. Ecspecially when they are driving!! YAP YAP YAP



I don't talk on my cellphone much, and I never talk while driving.

Neteru
02-01-06, 19:22
These stereotypes exist precisely because children are conditioned to exemplify them. This conditioning is primarily done by the parents from the moment of birth, and even before, if the gender of the child is known, and secondarily by close relatives. The rest is done by society at large in various ways, including through the media.

Whilst such stereotypes are relatively true, they are not mutually exclusive. The notion that a man may not be nurturing is patently beyond the ridiculous, or even worse, that he does not and cannot feel any kind of emotion. Conversely, the notion that women do not have a scientific brain is also patently ridiculous, especially in light of the fact that in this country (UK) at least, female children are outstipping male children in subjects like science and maths at school.

The conditioning of one particular stereotype in children also makes for the creation, by default, of another. Take Aggression in males. Men are relatively aggressive because they are conditioned to believe a lie (that males are not emotional), and because they intimately know it to be untrue, yet must not step outside of the stereotype they are given/take on (because then they won't be men), this causes the most profound psychological conflict which finds vent in aggression. Aggression which is, ironically, a most powerful expression of emotion.

I tend to view most stereotypes as a psychological cancer that eats away at the truth of human being and the natural state of consciousness as encompassing and being able to express all traits, no matter what form the body takes. Why seek to enslave selfhood in the bonds of erroneous gender falsehoods, and thus make yourself half a person?

Thorn
02-01-06, 19:31
Thank you Neteru for truly describing this topic.:)

Kamrusepas
02-01-06, 19:39
Men are relatively aggressive because they are conditioned to believe a lie (that males are not emotional), and because they intimately know it to be untrue, yet must not step outside of the stereotype they are given/take on (because then they won't be men), this causes the most profound psychological conflict which finds vent in aggression. Aggression which is, ironically, a most powerful expression of emotion.



That's just..... well said :tmb:

Draco
02-01-06, 19:44
Despite stereotypes and social engineering to establish them, males and females are far more alike than different. The primary difference is physiological...obviously. Everything else is social conditioning expressed by amplifying minor differences to being main traits.

Men ARE better at certain things, and women ARE better at certain things. But they arent so much better than the other that they cant be interchangeable or have clear exceptions.

GodOfLight
02-01-06, 21:00
i believe fully in conditioning.

if you wolud raise a boy to be emotional, sensitive etc etc (what i guess people would call female stereotypes) he'd completly behave like that.

if you raise a girl to be aggresive and completly not "feminine" in any sense of the word, she'd also be like that.

the mind is a powerful force... whatever influences us form our childhood onwards tends to stick throughout the rest of our lives. if i ever have cihldren i'd wnat to raise them with both stereotypes at the same time, so that girl for example could be aggresive and express her anger if she wanted, and at the same time tap into her sensitivity aswell.

due the certain religious belief systems we humans started to think that male behaviour and female behaviour were seperate. i think this is stupid. i tihnk we sohuld believe that we can behave like both. this way we get a far more richer feel for life by embracing both spectrums.

Lara Croft Fan Joe
02-01-06, 21:05
I absolutly hate sexist people no matter who they are, and i dont belive in the steriotypes, im a guy, im neat, im **** at maths and science, im a perfectionist, so... and plus if these steriotypes were true then lara croft wouldnt be shooting bad guys, shed be in a kitchen, no ones gonna wanna play: LARA CROFT:KITCHEN RAIDER, or LARA CROFT: THE STAIN OF DARKNESS! comeon!

Tramp
02-01-06, 21:18
Melonie in a way you defeat your own argument. You say that if a woman wants to work she shouldn't marry and have children as she can't fulfil her obligations in the home properly.

Well what about the woman who decides not to marry. She has to work to survive, so what your saying is she is incapable of working and looking after a home at the same time. What rubbish, she usually has to do the jobs around the home that are normally considered the male realm, like mowing the lawn, changing washers on taps (faucets), changing fuses and light globes. Or is she supposed to stay at home with mummy and daddy until the day she dies.

I successfully worked full time, had my own home complete with front and back yards that had to be mowed (I couldn't afford to have someone come in and mow them) and did them both very well. As a kid growing up I mum and I waited for my father to change a washer or replace a light globe or fuse, we would have been sitting in the dark with the water running for 3 weeks. My father was definately not mechanically minded.

I could also do minor repairs on my car, and that included doing the brakes. Did my own grease and oil changes, changed plugs and points. Changed tyres also (the last time a male helped to change a tyre I lost a dress rim as he didn't put it on properly.)

It wasn't until my illness really set in that I had problems.

I am messy.
I am definately not submissive.
I have seen men with more problems getting off the phone than women.
Any clumsiness I have is caused by my illness. I never had it before. I used to compete and teach Advanced Level Gymnastics with my field being the Balance Beam and the Uneven Parallel Bars.

I grew up with these stupid stereotypes and they were totally ridiculous. Women when they had a family HAD to leave their employment, it was enforced. She was basically kept barefoot and pregnant and in the kitchen. Then because she had become boring the husband left. She could not get a job to support herself or her children, so she had to go on a pittance of a pension (because half the time the husband disappeared or refused to pay maintenance for his kids, and when he did it was such a small amount it never was enough to survive on) and she was expected to survive on that, clothe her children and herself, cover their school costs and everything else.

Probably the only real difference with men and women is in their strength, women may not be able to lift something as heavy as men can. But then they get hernias trying to prove how strong they are. Women are more sensible, why lift it when you can make a machine that will lift it and not break your back doing it. So who is superior. NOBODY.

xMiSsCrOfTx
02-01-06, 21:19
Well, I absolutely can't stand sexist people. I also hate the stereotype women are sometimes given, that of a housewife. I also don't like the stereotype men are often times given (or at least from what I've seen) that men are lazy, or that they're always out on the couch drinking a beer and watching television. Those two are the most common I see, on TV, in movies, all around. It really depends on the person, you can hardly base it on "what people say". It's not that all women are perfect housewives or the ideal stay-at-home moms, or that men are lazy either. Those are just two brief examples, but there are so many stereotypes these days, I don't approve of many of them.

nomedo
02-01-06, 21:43
thorn are you talking about genetic of environmental factors??? :wve:

Catlantean
02-01-06, 21:44
Of course I don't believe in stereotypes - because according to them, I'm a man :p

What I believe is that everyone should be themselves and follow their dreams no matter of the "gender roles". If you're a girl and want to become an electrical engineer, or a guy and want to become a piano teacher, by all means go for it :tmb: Stereotypes in general suck IMO.

Angel666
03-01-06, 02:06
Well, I don't think I'm a stereotype. I'm a fourteen year old female. I am messy, sometimes agressive, I don't even own a dress or skirt, I play sports and don't give a **** about my looks. I can do minor repairs (faucets, light bulbs and I'm learning how to change a tire) and I like video games (obviously). (VG were originally marketed, and still are to some extent, males). I've seen plenty of stereotypical people who but I do not beleive men have to be this way and women have to be this way. My mother cooks and cleans the house but if we let my father do the bills and minor repairs they wouldnt get done.

FourBalls
03-01-06, 07:49
I don't even own a dress or skirt.
Me either :D
Well, one skirt, but I've never worn it.
Anyway...The stereotypes change in time too. So...they are "written" in the 60s or something, but today is 2006 and they have deffinately changed during the years. I think it's for rather narrow-minded people.
So no. I don't believe in them.. :mis: