PDA

View Full Version : Okay, I'm growing sick of this now. (trl or aod)


PirateRose
27-05-06, 00:23
So the AOD fans are ****ed off that they didn't continue the series and are now taking every chance they have to attack TRL, finally letting out their rage after being attacked for AOD being so bad. Frankly, I'm sick of seeing IMO and them backing themselves up saying "there is nothing wrong with my opinion, TRL sucks." and then when any one who dislikes AOD its like an aboslute outrage "get the heck out of the AOD forums if you don't like it and die, because you are insane."

For goodness sake, I really think BOTH GAMES could have been better for a lot of reasons. Although I lean towards what is worse, because it simply had a ton of stuff I hated about it. I'd gladly share more, but I'd decided to just stop sharing my opinion on the subject.

I just would like to see how many people are sick of it all. We are all Lara Croft, Tomb Raiders fans here now. I would like to see some sort of resolve here before not only this site and forum falls apart, but the whole tomb raiding fan base dies. Then again, perhaps its time Lara Croft was really put to rest.

stereopathic
27-05-06, 00:26
i love both games. a lot. i really don't mind hearing others' opinions as long as they respect the opinions of others.

RoseTyler
27-05-06, 00:28
We just need Tomb Raider. Thats all, just Tomb Raider. Not something thats trying to be Tomb Raider.

AOD: Almost trying to be TR

Legend: Definately trying to be TR but barely succeeding.

Tomb Raider is the game that started all this. Yes its slow, yes the graphics are poop but none of that matters! Its one of the most incredible games ever made, and when developers take that and try to turn it into something more... it gets ruined.

All we need is Tomb Raider. Polished & sped up with more moves, puzzles, locations and scary atmosphere's.

Coz thats what Tomb Raider is. ;)

Although in saying that I LOVE both AOD and Legend. Just saying they coulda been a million times better.

LegenDarY
27-05-06, 00:29
lol.. someone just lock this thread..

wheter you like/dislike AoD/Legend is a matter of opinion.. some people don't like AoD.. some people don't like Legend.. and vice versa..

and the fact that some people think one those games actually SUCK, is their opinion.. nothing you have anything to say about..

personally i think both games have their good and bad things.. and i've always liked AoD.. and never understood the whole complaining part about the game.. and in my opinion AoD is better.. i loved Legend.. i just liked AoD better.. it would have been perfect if it was created with the Legend engine..

and who's attacking Legend? and so what if people attack it.. AoD has been critisized to death.. why can't people critisize Legend?

Joseph
27-05-06, 00:30
So (...) I would like to see some sort of resolve here before not only this site and forum falls apart, but the whole tomb raiding fan base dies. Then again, perhaps its time Lara Croft was really put to rest. Please consult your doctor asap. ;)

ELEN
27-05-06, 00:31
I agree with you Pirate. And there is always a kind way to say your opinion. I don't support such posts and in general I don't support the posters. For me, they do like they are not capable of acting like normal people.

Please consult your doctor asap. ;)

Uh?

*edit: Until i posted, all of you had already posted before. I think Pirate talks about the attacking. Not to just say your opinion, which is respected.

Camera Obscura
27-05-06, 00:31
I love both games and each had their flaws. If CD took the time to study these flaws then I'm sure they can make a Tomb raider game better than AoD and Legend combined. :)

RoseTyler
27-05-06, 00:33
I love both games and each had their flaws. If CD took the time to study these flaws then I'm sure they can make a Tomb raider game better than AoD and Legend combined. :)

Very well said. :tmb:

PirateRose
27-05-06, 00:36
I love both games and each had their flaws. If CD took the time to study these flaws then I'm sure they can make a Tomb raider game better than AoD and Legend combined. :)

I haven't heard a post like that in years. Its not a lame positive, its a true positive.

ace_85
27-05-06, 00:40
I apologise in advance for playing Devil's advocate, but what exactly is this 'ideal' TR game that everyone seems to believe will be eventually created? I enjoyed both AoD and Legend, neither were perfect but both had their merits. It's pretty clear that the 'old-style' TR has been politely buried anyway now, so why is there such opposition to the new direction the series is taking? I, for one, look forward to the prospect of change, otherwise we'll end up in the same situation of a few years ago where a new TR was brought out annually as something of a cynical update (yes, I'm looking at you, Chronicles ;)) I think CD at least deserves a chance with the new format first :)

Punaxe
27-05-06, 00:48
I apologise in advance for playing Devil's advocate, but what exactly is this 'ideal' TR game that everyone seems to believe will be eventually created? I enjoyed both AoD and Legend, neither were perfect but both had their merits. It's pretty clear that the 'old-style' TR has been politely buried anyway now, so why is there such opposition to the new direction the series is taking? I, for one, look forward to the prospect of change, otherwise we'll end up in the same situation of a few years ago where a new TR was brought out annually as something of a cynical update (yes, I'm looking at you, Chronicles ;)) I think CD at least deserves a chance with the new format first :)
:tmb:

RoseTyler
27-05-06, 01:04
It's pretty clear that the 'old-style' TR has been politely buried anyway now

Hence Legend being non-Tomb Raider-ish and somewhat rubbish basically.

There's no such thing as 'old style TR' ...ok?

TR is TR. Always has been until just recently.

I've said this before but any games company who take TR and try to stray from 'old style' as you call it... have no right whatsoever to call their game Tomb Raider.

Tombreaper
27-05-06, 01:05
I like both games, not as much as I like the classics, but at least I really like it to play both AoD & Legend.

Genocide
27-05-06, 02:37
I like both games, not as much as I like the classics, but at least I really like it to play both AoD & Legend.
Ditto
For CD i believe it's all just a case of trial and error-hopefully they'll see why people don't like Legend and fix it for the next game, CORE on the other hand deserved more time to finish AoD, what do you expect to get from a game that is incomplete (thankyou Eidos!)
I gave both a chance and enjoyed them both as i could get over the glitchs or new gameplay style, i understand everybodys different, but there's no need to keep going on about it...what's done is done-you can't change what lies in past

Mary CF
27-05-06, 02:50
Honestly I didn't like AoD for a lot of reasons... I don't even remember why now. The only thing that comes to mind is how irritating that Kurtis guy was. I think there was something about it I liked... maybe the atmosphere, I'm not sure. However the game was clearly underdeveloped so the good in it didn't really come through fully.

As for Legend... I won't comment until I finish it, except to say that I think it is lacking something... and there have been some changes made (Lara's background, her house - I want that back!) that I'm not sure I could get used to. Changing a character's background like that isn't a smart idea, it could very easily alienate a lot of fans. It annoyed the heck out of me, that's for sure. Especially the house thing. It looks nice but damn it! I want the old one back :(

Melonie Tomb Raider
27-05-06, 03:12
What's the problem? Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Some of us love AOD, more than Legend, and other don't. Why does it bother you so much?

mau3genius
27-05-06, 03:37
I don't see a problem in that.
It happened with AoD. Everyone verbally destroyed the game as much as they could and of course, since AoD fans aren't that much, nobody complained.
Deal with it. There'll always be different opinions, some of them posted in an agressive way, as yours for example, but you don't have to care about something If you don't agree with it.

keebz
27-05-06, 03:53
I apologise in advance for playing Devil's advocate, but what exactly is this 'ideal' TR game that everyone seems to believe will be eventually created? I enjoyed both AoD and Legend, neither were perfect but both had their merits. It's pretty clear that the 'old-style' TR has been politely buried anyway now, so why is there such opposition to the new direction the series is taking? I, for one, look forward to the prospect of change, otherwise we'll end up in the same situation of a few years ago where a new TR was brought out annually as something of a cynical update (yes, I'm looking at you, Chronicles ;)) I think CD at least deserves a chance with the new format first :)
i completely agree.:)

i think legend is a great game. but, it can be much better. they should improve on what legend gave us, not go back to the tr1-5 style. what some of the people here don't understand is that the tr series was rapidly becoming old and repetitive. we, as big tr fans, don't see that, but an average gamer does. after tr3, the series needed a big change. that change was brought in aod, but was unsucessful. tr was given over to cd, who gave another shot at changing the series, and they were sucessful imo.:) the reviews on all gaming sites are proof for both statements. cd developed a whole new engine for tr, and i give them alot of credit for that. imo, they are off to a great start. i want tr8 to be a much better tr with the legend engine, harder puzzles, non-linear gameplay etc..:)

also, its silly to say "trl is not tomb raider" or "aod is not tomb raider", because they ARE tombraider. they are tr as it is now. they are the new and improved tr. they are legally and rightfully tr games.:)

CerebralAssassin
27-05-06, 04:55
I, for one, look forward to the prospect of change, otherwise we'll end up in the same situation of a few years ago where a new TR was brought out annually as something of a cynical update (yes, I'm looking at you, Chronicles ;)) I think CD at least deserves a chance with the new format first :)

LOL...change is good...random change isn't.

Things you're NOT supposed to change:
1)The chance/need to explore the environment in which you're in..
2)The concept of "puzzle"
3)The fear that this game inflicts upon you ("atmosphere", if you will)
4)Beautiful/remote/unusual locations...
5)unusual enemies...

I'm pretty sure there are more..this is what I can remember from the top of my head but..In my mind,these are the "ingredients" that define TR,not Lara Croft...I would still play this game even if she wasn't in it...

Things you are supposed to change:
1)the means by which these "ingredients" are made present in the game...

Sure,you can argue that the first 5 TR's had too many "find-the-key" puzzles,which is the reason I feel a lot of posters are saying "the first 5 TR's are too similar"...and yes..I agree that TR shouldn't be limited to those kinds of puzzles.There are lot's of ways to make puzzles which are yet to be discovered..however..these ingredients that I've mentioned were all present in the old TR's.That being said, I don't understand all this bashing of the old TR's. Now..I haven't finished Legend,in fact, I'm far from it...but I've seen posts like "TRL isn't scary" and "TRL is too easy" so...why are we complaning about the old TR's?!?! LOL...

Lost_Raider
27-05-06, 05:09
Ingredients are there...improvements aren't...

Seriously, old TR games aren't bad, they just more and more out-dated after each release...Core needs to learn that what worked in 1996 doesn't mean it will work forever...a point I would also like to point out in TRL...TRL worked, but if CD copy the same "ingredients" in TR8, it will bomb big time...

BigR4444
27-05-06, 05:20
So the AOD fans are ****ed off that they didn't continue the series and are now taking every chance they have to attack TRL, finally letting out their rage after being attacked for AOD being so bad. Frankly, I'm sick of seeing IMO and them backing themselves up saying "there is nothing wrong with my opinion, TRL sucks." and then when any one who dislikes AOD its like an aboslute outrage "get the heck out of the AOD forums if you don't like it and die, because you are insane."

For goodness sake, I really think BOTH GAMES could have been better for a lot of reasons. Although I lean towards what is worse, because it simply had a ton of stuff I hated about it. I'd gladly share more, but I'd decided to just stop sharing my opinion on the subject.

I just would like to see how many people are sick of it all. We are all Lara Croft, Tomb Raiders fans here now. I would like to see some sort of resolve here before not only this site and forum falls apart, but the whole tomb raiding fan base dies. Then again, perhaps its time Lara Croft was really put to rest.

I agree with everything you said, up until the last sentence.......I do think that a lot of the people attacking Legend really aggresivley, kinda made up their mind subconsiously before they even played the game.......Ive seen a lot of "they should have never given it to an American company" WTF is that??? Whats the difference??? Some i think are genuinley dissapointed with TRL (i dont see why) but that i can understand......

However Pirate Rose, fear not......the game is selling well beyond expectations......which to me indicates that although part of the fan base may be dying out, new fans are coming in.......as far as im concerned, CD is taking TR in a new direction, and some of the disgruntled older fans may be left behind......Their dissapearence wouldnt bother me if the new fan base is strong enough to generate enough sales to keep TR around for a few more sequels......Its all a matter of evolving, and guess some of us have been able to do that, while others havent..... It would be thier loss, not mine.....and maybe they are smart for trying to appeal to a new fan base, rather than satisfying the old fan base, which may be partly composed of some people who might not be playing videogames 5 years down the line.....

RoseTyler
27-05-06, 05:52
LOL...change is good...random change isn't.

Things you're NOT supposed to change:
1)The chance/need to explore the environment in which you're in..
2)The concept of "puzzle"
3)The fear that this game inflicts upon you ("atmosphere", if you will)
4)Beautiful/remote/unusual locations...
5)unusual enemies...

I'm pretty sure there are more..this is what I can remember from the top of my head but..In my mind,these are the "ingredients" that define TR,not Lara Croft...I would still play this game even if she wasn't in it...

Things you are supposed to change:
1)the means by which these "ingredients" are made present in the game...

Incredibly well said. :D

gazhammer
27-05-06, 06:35
This thread is a DAMN good read, only why do so many wish to attack individuals for posting their personal opinion!.:confused:

Actually its just nice to have a REAL thread about Tomb Raider again, as every other topic on the forum lately consists of little but childish comment (I.M.H.O.);) ,

I know many people are saying "Just what is proper Tomb Raider?", thinking that this is the only direction the game could head!.

It seems that there are few others apart from myself that remembers a game so stunning, in its ability to grip you and entice you so far in, that there was a very real possibility that you might actually forget to eat and drink!, thus needing one of Lara's medi-packs for real!.:D

Cerebral Assassin, seems to have summed things up superbly (well done CA):tmb:, the only thing i can really add, is that the original levels in TR always appeared so Colossal:eek:, even though this wasnt always the case!!!.

I say that it is possible to appease fans and bring out a definitive version of TR, the problem is that, that will never happen!:(, UNLESS!!!, game makers actually choose to concentrate on making the game itself, as opposed to just a BIG FAT PROFIT!.:(

Lost_Raider
27-05-06, 06:50
LOL...change is good...random change isn't.


Those change aren't random...too bad they have to shake off the stereotypical image of TR in order to actually sell their game...I really don't want to think that games are made for money, but then again, which game aren't made for money??? Game developers have families to feed too you know...

It has to make money or this series is dead for good. Other than people like us who are really interested in the series and understand what is the meaning of a good Tomb Raider game, the stereotypical image of TR games are childish, boring, cliched and repetive. In a free market money talks, and we don't have enough money to make the world to understand what is the meaning of a good Tomb Raider game.

Clara [CA]
27-05-06, 07:13
I really don't get why people are discussing about which one is a REAL Tomb Raider, because they both are. I think the problem is more that they didn't enjoy it, because they were waiting for someting else...

I, for one, look forward to the prospect of change, otherwise we'll end up in the same situation of a few years ago where a new TR was brought out annually as something of a cynical update (yes, I'm looking at you, Chronicles ;)) I think CD at least deserves a chance with the new format first :)

I've read all the thread, and I completely with ace_85. Open mind. That's it. :)

Elysia
27-05-06, 08:39
In my experience, there's been more of a backlash against Legend from the TR1-4 fan camp. I like AoD as much as I like Legend... both are certainly not perfect! AoD has the TR atmosphere Legend doesn't, but controls like a number 9 bus. Legend controls like a dream but looks like a glossy, Cosmo version of the TR world, completely lacking in the old TR atmosphere.

I'm hoping that CD will be able to pull of a successful TR game (not just an action game) in their future installements - although I can't pretend that I wouldn't be interested in an AoD story conclusion. AoD, like Legend, actually has a lot of potential... if AoD had been Crystals' first attempt (as opposed to Core's last, if you get my meaning... I think fans expected more from Core and were getting a little fed up of the goodies not being delivered, and so therefore were (understandably) peed off with AoD's clunky controls, urban locations and silly RPG elements) would people have been so horrible about it? I do have to wonder if people would have been more patient and more willing to accept 'mistakes' (in inverted commas because such things are subjective) - Legend has as many faults as AoD (too short, too easy, complete lack of diversity in all aspects of the game (swingy bar and black-clad mercenary, anyone?!), vital elements of the TR franchise dropped in favour of playing barbie dress-up and simple button recognition ('Press triangle now!' *sigh*....) with Lara), but people seem to be much, much more forgiving towards Crystal than they were to Core.

One of the most common defences I hear in favour of Legend is 'this is Crystal's first game! Be nice to them!' (after 'be nice to Crystal - if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't have a TR game'... ummm, well, we would... sorry to point out the huge logical flaw, but the AoD storyline had 2 other installments - if Eidos hadn't pulled TR out of Core's hands, we would have had other TR games regardless (I'm not saying this as a rabid AoD fan - I'm the consumate and completely rabid TR1 fan ( ;) ) - I'm just playing Devil's Advocate, really...), so by that logic, it actually didn't matter who the TR franchise was given to - Core or Crystal - we would still have had a TR game. Whether it was a TR game that was any good is obviously a hugely subjective thing, but the franchise still would've been there!) No, sorry - I don't want to be nice to them. CD aren't some speccy kid that people keep bullying - they're a commercial enterprize with balls the size of Africa (they have to to successfully compete in today's financial and commercial climate). They know what they've done well - they need criticism in order to improve - yes, even from the little people. Saying 'aww, it's nice!' is, well, nice, but no one improves that way! If people had only said 'aww, that's nice!' to my artwork on DA, I'd still be knocking out mis-shapen, badly drawn cartoon characters. But they didn't - people criticised my work, told me where I was going wrong, gave me tips on how to fix it and then reprimanded me when I kept making the same mistakes until I fixed them and I'm damn grateful to them!. Without all of that, I certainly wouldn't have a commercial market now. In the same vein, Crystal NEED critisism. Those who say 'oh, you're so mean! Don't be horrible to Crystal - they might not make us another game if we don't play nice!' are, I'm afraid, thinking with a playground mentality - Crystal ARE NOT going to withhold on TR8 just because fans haven't universally brown-nosed them. They aren't going to have a girly flounce and withhold the game with a 'well, I was going to release this, but now you've hurt my feelings!' attitude. They will analyse sales figures, see if it is financially viable to make another installment, then (if they care in any way about their fans) will look at the critisism given and see how they can improve for the next installment. To a commercial enterprise, critisism is useful!

One thing that has to stop, however, are members personally attacking each other for having different opinions. That does suck. The AoD fans aren't all Kurtis-loving weirdos, the Legend fans aren't all braindead film-only fans, and the classic TR fans aren't all ancient dinosaurs who need to get out of the 90's. The needless aggression towards one another is the one thing that I do agree needs to stop. ;)

tha_mattster
27-05-06, 08:41
What a lot of people would love is the best of AoD with the best of TRL. The AoD engine was not so great, TRL's is very good. But AoD has the artistic/dramatic features like level design, story, good cutscenes.

Apofiss
27-05-06, 10:03
"I don't like this and that and also this cos it sucks.. I don't like.. umm where was I" ? :vlol:

Anyways, both AoD and TRL are great games (atmosphere, Lara, characters, locations, music, etc)... well everything almost always can be showed better, but still I'm having a nice memories/time playing through these 2 titles ^^

Pipolinne
27-05-06, 10:06
In certain aspects,I agree with you,Pirate Rose and Elysia. It seems there's always someone trying to separate the Forum Raiders! And those people who say things like " get out of our forum" just make me mad! Since when a different opinion may prevent someone from posting in a determined thread??!!!

In GROK/KTEB threads, normally there's always some members who like to say things like " I hate all GROKERS/KTEBERS"! It's really sad,once that was supposed to be a funny thing,but,sometimes it seems some members are so fanatic they don't even stand a joke!

You pictured it prefectly,Apofiss :D! At least,they could learn how to to write in an interesting way :vlol:!

Angel_14
27-05-06, 10:13
In GROK/KTEB threads, normally there's always some members who like to say things like " I hate all GROKERS/KTEBERS"! It's really sad,once that was supposed to be a funny thing,but,sometimes it seems some members are so fanatic they don't even stand a joke!

I'm not one of them, dear 'there's-an-open-door-for-you-at-GROK-Angel! :D

Sofitegan
27-05-06, 10:32
Im getting sick of it too. AOD and Legend are two completely different games. The only thing they have in common is Lara. I like both the games, but i also think there are different aspects that could have been better. For example, i think Legend should have been a little more challenging, longer, and with better boss battles. The last batttle was just waaay too easy! And with AOD- Kurtis, Kurtis, Kurtis! Need i say more? my fellow Grok-ers know what im talking about!

Cochrane
27-05-06, 10:45
What annoys me particularly is that many people claim their arguments are universal truth. Things like "Well, it's clear that game X has the better 'foo'" although I personally think that game Y has the better 'foo' really bug me, because I get the feeling that those who say such things have the opinion all others are fools. Of course, I'm a bit hypocritical in that aspect because I sometimes agree and sometimes behave that way myself, although I try to avoid it.

DREWY
27-05-06, 13:15
This all comes down to personal opinion. Just because you don't agree with some one elses opinion doesn't mean your wrong. (Unless it's my opinion :ton: ) Just that you look for different things in a game, thats all.

Personally I think the series took a turn down with Chronicles, (which should have been TR4 gold, like artifact was for TR3.) Then we go to the next 'phase' in TR, AOD and Legend, which I am not a big fan for. Legend is a better game than AOD mainly due to the controls but still does not have the the (for want of a better word) atmosphere of the earlier games.
Maybe I am just a gamer who wishes that all TRs had the same graphics, controls and puzzles as the first four did? That is one wish that sadly will never happen. Personal opinion, thats all.

LaraCroftNo1Fan
27-05-06, 14:11
I like them both. But AOD was so slow...

Pipolinne
27-05-06, 15:18
I'm not one of them, dear 'there's-an-open-door-for-you-at-GROK-Angel! :D

I know :D! ( and I still didn't gave up :mis:)

Indeed,as Sofitegan said, we suffer due to that motive :D!

My personal feeling is that AOD 's forum is becoming a feud,where it's becoming difficult to discuss something,while Legend 's forum is full (not only) of negative threads,like if AOD needed to be defended as a damsell in distress!It's ridiculous!

Angel_14
27-05-06, 15:21
I really don't understand too. If somebody wants to defent AoD than defend it in It's own forum.

Mary CF
27-05-06, 15:23
I don't see a problem in that.
It happened with AoD. Everyone verbally destroyed the game as much as they could and of course, since AoD fans aren't that much, nobody complained.
Deal with it. There'll always be different opinions, some of them posted in an agressive way, as yours for example, but you don't have to care about something If you don't agree with it.

Who posted in an aggressive way? Sorry, just wanted to know who you were referring to.

I remember getting into a lot of fights with Kurtis fans... most of which started out friendly enough. I then noticed this particular member attacking me saying things like "I'll avoid fans from canada" etc etc.... and I wasn't even being rude at that point.

I did start to get angry when no one else would do anything about it... heh. If not for those unecessary, rude comments from that one individual, I am sure I would not have reacted the way I did. Regardless...

Personally I will always miss the atmosphere of the first TR. Somehow they made it absolutely amazing - I think it had a lot to do with the music, and of course the setting. Somehow recapturing that managed to elude them throughout the rest of the series.

There were aspects from all of them that I liked, though. TR2, 3, and 4 all had great atmospheric feel to them. Even TR5 had it's charm. They all felt a lot closer to the orginal feel than AoD or Legend ever could.

RoseTyler
27-05-06, 15:51
too bad they have to shake off the stereotypical image of TR in order to actually sell their game...

Except they don't.

Too bad they don't realise that.

Like I keep saying... Tomb Raider started it all. Tomb Raider made a huge profit or whatever.

If they made a proper sequel to Tomb Raider then it'd sell out.

Lost_Raider
27-05-06, 15:58
If they made a proper sequel to Tomb Raider then it'd sell out.

The stereotypical image of TR games are childish, boring, cliched and repetive.

That is where you and I differs in opinion...There are already four proper sequels, and they are not going anywhere better. With each proper sequels, more people grow tired and left...we are all that left and stick to the series.

The image CD is trying to create is that game with the name TR is not about repeating the same old TR1 formula, it can do much more than that...something that a lot of people has been asking for ever since TR3 came out.

I don't believe copy TR1 again would be a sell out...it would be the final nail to the coffin...

RoseTyler
27-05-06, 16:20
As a matter of fact, the first five TR games were all fantastic. Problems only started after Chronicles.

What was wrong with the first games, was the fact that they hadn't really done enough with Lara.

In each new game she'd have new moves and new acrobatics etc, but she'd never have them all at the same time.

Lara was at her best in AOD, but only in the last level, as her moves had to be gradually built up which was a big mistake really.

In Legend she finally sped up but still she's limited.

Every single TR game so far apart from Legend has had that atmosphere about it. So in a way I suppose AOD is better.

Infact, give AOD far better controls, all of Lara's moves from the start, more tombs and maybe a better story and it is the perfect TR.

Thorn
27-05-06, 16:21
I think Tomb Raider has already lived its great years. It's about time there was an amazing final game since TR doesn't have much to go by anymore. I'd like to see TR8 on the PS3 and maybe be the last since now Lara isn't really going anywhere anymore. Have her reunited with her mother and/or getting married or something for the final game would be a beautiful way to conclude her story.

RoseTyler
27-05-06, 16:23
Sorry Thorn but you must be outta your mind :p

Joseph
27-05-06, 16:25
So. Tomb Raider has many many fans. The game as phenomenon is enormous. Many fans from start praise TR1/2 to heaven's height... and despite the 'fiasco' of AOD (unfinished and released as a crippled game, etc) AOD has many AOD fans... Legend is now top-selling, many people enjoy it and are happy TR has been transported to a modern engine, new fluid controls with much more freedom, graphically very appealing .... it's a promise for an even better game in future! :tmb:

Lost_Raider
27-05-06, 16:25
Sorry Thorn but you must be outta your mind :p

I don't think she's outta her mind...good things come in three...and there are already eight games...

We all understand what is the prefect TR...but to others, that is far from being the prefect game...

Thorn
27-05-06, 16:28
Well I'm tired of the typical *to be continued* cliche. We need something amazingly ground breaking like a finale. Honestly I love the TR series dearly but I'm not too interested in a boring continuation. Tomb Raider has been continued a bit too long. That's just my opinion. I want to see Lara fully blossom already because it's been 10 long years if you know what I mean. :)

meansizzler
27-05-06, 16:30
Well Rose, I don't care, I only played legend and it was ok, nothing special I'm, more ****** off by you completey ignoring my PM's...how rude,,,




Let the swear filter do its work please.

gazhammer
27-05-06, 16:33
I certainly dont agree that Lara should be married off!....:p

Tomb Raider is ageless!, or could be if enough effort was made to keep it/her that way!.;)

Another poor game may in fact be the last nail in Lara's coffin, but that said a colossal effort from gamemakers to appease true aficionado's of the game and give us what we want could actually result in the game being brought back to its initial state of success and put Lara Croft and Tomb Raider back where it belongs, "Right at the very top!".:tmb:

RoseTyler
27-05-06, 16:35
Well Rose, I don't care, I only played legend and it was ok, nothing special I'm, more ****** off by you completey ignoring my PM's...how rude,,,

Right well by the sounds of things you were still in nappies whilst everyone else was playing TR back in 1996.

I have no PM's and any PM's I do have, I reply to.

Lost_Raider
27-05-06, 16:35
Just watch what you wish for, copying TR1 is equal to poor game no matter how much effort you put into.

Rivendell
27-05-06, 16:37
In response to the starting post, I can't actually say I've seen all that many "AoD Sucks, Legend rules" / "Legend Sucks, AoD rules" posts.
What I have seen a lot of is people explaining the bad points of both of them, and backing it up with reason - which there's nothing wrong with!

RoseTyler
27-05-06, 16:37
Just watch what you wish for, copying TR1 is equal to poor game no matter how much effort you put into.

So your saying TR2, 3, 4 & 5 were poor?

No ones saying copy TR1 literally!

Thorn
27-05-06, 16:42
I'm hoping the last one leaves me feeling emotional.

sweetPoison
27-05-06, 16:43
I'm hoping the last one leaves me feeling emotional.

Thorn, but didn't you cry when Lara pistol whipped Amanda?

I did!! I cried for Amanda!!LOL:D
So emotional!!

Lost_Raider
27-05-06, 16:49
So your saying TR2, 3, 4 & 5 were poor?

No ones saying copy TR1 literally!

I'm not saying it, but the public is saying it. Heck, all of my firends and co workers are saying it, game reviews saying it, Eidos' share price is saying it...Eidos' share price plummet after TR3 was released, because the investors fear that Eidos cannot adapt to next-gen platform...once mighty 1000 pounds share price dropped below 100...how come I'm not suprised?

I know nobody would redo TR1 with just better graphic, but the style, presentation and the gameplay are so tanited that no game developer in the sane mind would dare to use it in a supposed "rebirth". TRL is designed to show people that TR games can do something new and exciting...and I applaud CD for making that a success. I would hope TR8 would reintroduce and reexpose all the new fans about what made Tomb Raider a good game in the first place by using TRL gameplay mechanic and TR1 level design.

Winston_the_butler
27-05-06, 16:53
I don't mean to generalize, but all you people are wrong about everything. lol
jk.

I liked AoD okay, but there were too many flaws. That and it was too long for the average gamer. The ONLY thing i didn't like about Legend was the game length, but I can get over that. I think Tomb Raider is progressing, each game better than the last. Hopefully we can all agree to join opinions in beliving that Lara has at least stayed the same on the inside. As long as she's the ruthless, adventurous, bat-outta-hell girl we've all come to love, then we should all remain true to her, and respect her changes.

-Winston_the_butler

gazhammer
27-05-06, 16:57
In response to the starting post, I can't actually say I've seen all that many "AoD Sucks, Legend rules" / "Legend Sucks, AoD rules" posts.
What I have seen a lot of is people explaining the bad points of both of them, and backing it up with reason - which there's nothing wrong with!

1. Give us back the atmosphere!: Where is the feeling that you are the only person that has stepped into this Tomb/Location in thosands of years?.:confused:

2. Dont cheat us with short levels!: Make the levels more expansive, it used to take me hours just to have a good look around, whereas in later games, your actually pushed into going the right way immediately!.:confused:

3. Give us back the puzzles!: Lets have bigger and better puzzles that need a little more working out, instead of walking into a given area and immediately understanding what needs doing!.

4. More levels!.: Just when we think we have got to the end, throw in a couple more levels just for good measure!.

5. Extra games!.: In a similar vein to the quad bike race we had on a previous TR + the assault course, treat us to something new of which we can compete against our friends!.

Anyone have any more?:D

Lost_Raider
27-05-06, 17:10
3. Give us back the puzzles!: Lets have bigger and better puzzles that need a little more working out, instead of walking into a given area and immediately understanding what needs doing!.


Agree with you, but I believe this suggestion needs a little tweaking...

You have to be able to understand what needs to be done...otherwise it is confusing as hell. But force the player to think before implenmating the solution is the key. My point is that just a shiny object to grapple and pull is really no brainer, but what if you are required to do different things with the grapple with each shiny object? Like, you have to watch out if they break or not, you have to grapple on a specific sequence of shiny objects in order not to get killed, you have to grapple to sort out a series of poles to form a path, etc...

Lucy_Croft
27-05-06, 17:12
Agree with you, but I believe this suggestion needs a little tweaking...

You have to be able to understand what needs to be done...otherwise it is confusing as hell. But force the player to think before implenmating the solution is the key. My point is that just a shiny object to grapple and pull is really no brainer, but what if you are required to do different things with the grapple with each shiny object? Like, you have to watch out if they break or not, you have to grapple on a specific sequence of shiny objects in order not to get killed, you have to grapple to sort out a series of poles to form a path, etc...
Smashing idea. :tmb: I like that.
I think more environmental hazards would be great.

gazhammer
27-05-06, 17:27
Agree with you, but I believe this suggestion needs a little tweaking...

You have to be able to understand what needs to be done...otherwise it is confusing as hell. But force the player to think before implenmating the solution is the key. My point is that just a shiny object to grapple and pull is really no brainer, but what if you are required to do different things with the grapple with each shiny object? Like, you have to watch out if they break or not, you have to grapple on a specific sequence of shiny objects in order not to get killed, you have to grapple to sort out a series of poles to form a path, etc...

Yeah, i didnt explain that vey well, what i meant was in similar vein to what you suggest, take away the confusing non sensical element, whilst leaving us with something that we need to spend a little time on getting just right for it to work!. (or something like that)!.:D

meansizzler
27-05-06, 18:24
Right well by the sounds of things you were still in nappies whilst everyone else was playing TR back in 1996.

I have no PM's and any PM's I do have, I reply to.

Sorry I was talking to Piraterose not you, I thought she started the thread, and anyway what makes you think i was in nappies when TR1 was out, put it this way I don't get my parents to buy me games like most of you...

RoseTyler
27-05-06, 19:22
Sorry I was talking to Piraterose not you

In that case I apologise.

in these arms
27-05-06, 19:31
I havent played AOD, but, soembody told me about lara takes somthing and walks into darkness. I dont see why to carry it on.

laras
27-05-06, 19:33
I havent played AOD, but, soembody told me about lara takes somthing and walks into darkness. I dont see why to carry it on.

Trust me, you have to play it to understand! The best story in series! :)

Tomb Raider Jay
27-05-06, 19:48
Both AoD and Legend had good and bad things about them. :)

I agree AoD was beaten to death with criticisms and anger by the fans and the gaming media alike so why should people hold back on Legend? :confused:
Its not fair! :ohn:

I really don't see the problem :confused: , if no-one said anything we'd end up with respawning sequles again and again like Legend 2,3,4 ect and nothing would change - ie shiny objects, easy puzzles and awful motorcycle bits.

If fans kick up a fuss about what they don't like then Crystal have the chance to fix it and move the games forward - away from Legends misstakes.

I think people/fans should say what they feel and although there are lots of complaint threads its good so Crystal can see whats wrong with the game. But I suppose if the same thing gets repeated that many times I would get pretty annoyed too.

Anyhow AoD or TRL for me theres no argument I like both games for different reasons and disslike them for others.

Joseph
27-05-06, 21:09
1. Give us back the atmosphere!: Where is the feeling that you are the only person that has stepped into this Tomb/Location in thosands of years?.:confused:

Where did you get this idea? :confused: Larson was there before her. And Pierre too!

Lost_Raider
27-05-06, 21:51
Where did you get this idea? :confused: Larson was there before her. And Pierre too!

It is a distinct feeling when you face just Larson or Pierre rather than a battalion of goons with guns and a helicopter gunship as support...

Not that I mind, but those two feeling are completely different...that is the point gazhammer trying to make.

meansizzler
27-05-06, 22:30
Sorry Thorn but you must be outta your mind :p

Yay I get an apology...

Joseph
27-05-06, 22:32
Not only Larson and Pierre were there before you (recently) but many others (hence the skeletons!) who did not survive, and L and P cannot find the artifacts. Important aspect of the atmosphere is that YOU (as Lara) solve the puzzles no-one else can.

mau3genius
27-05-06, 22:34
Who posted in an aggressive way? Sorry, just wanted to know who you were referring to.

I was talking about PirateRose Mary :wve:

Joseph
27-05-06, 22:35
Keep on topic please. :)

Paperdoll
27-05-06, 22:38
I agree with the atmosphere bit. Despite being with company, or alone (in the game), whenever you stepped into a new area, it was filled with atmosphere. I remember being completely freaked out in the Colosseum. It all gave you a sense of dread of the unknown and also of being a terribly huge area, which never happened with Legend. If you were at the edge of a cliff, you'd actually be afraid of falling and hearing Lara's bones crack, not just seeing the screen fading into loading.

In my opinion, Tomb Raider is Tomb Raider, not for the lack or abundance of tombs, but for the atmosphere. How would you feel if you were actually raiding a tomb? I remember the first time I ever played TR, it was the first level of TR2 and it all seemed so grand... and the sequence with the rolling ball and the spikes... to me, that's what Tomb Raider is.

I like AoD and I like Legend, but do I consider Legend a Tomb Raider game? For many reasons, no.

Do I consider AoD a Tomb Raider game? Despite the disgrace that was playing with Kurtis (don't get me wrong fellow KTEB-ers XD I like Kurtis, I don't like playing with him), the game felt more right than Legend ever did.

I don't have any hope on Tomb Raider going back to it's roots, there's no reason to it. To be honest, I don't care. I'll just enjoy my favorites and download a few custom levels :)

And before anyone starts bashing me about the concept of what is and isn't Tomb Raider, that's my opinion, it's right to me, doesn't mean it's right to you. It's relative.

SkyGirl
27-05-06, 22:50
I agree with the atmosphere bit. Despite being with company, or alone (in the game), whenever you stepped into a new area, it was filled with atmosphere. I remember being completely freaked out in the Colosseum. It all gave you a sense of dread of the unknown and also of being a terribly huge area, which never happened with Legend. If you were at the edge of a cliff, you'd actually be afraid of falling and hearing Lara's bones crack, not just seeing the screen fading into loading.

In my opinion, Tomb Raider is Tomb Raider, not for the lack or abundance of tombs, but for the atmosphere. How would you feel if you were actually raiding a tomb? I remember the first time I ever played TR, it was the first level of TR2 and it all seemed so grand... and the sequence with the rolling ball and the spikes... to me, that's what Tomb Raider is.

I like AoD and I like Legend, but do I consider Legend a Tomb Raider game? For many reasons, no.

Do I consider AoD a Tomb Raider game? Despite the disgrace that was playing with Kurtis (don't get me wrong fellow KTEB-ers XD I like Kurtis, I don't like playing with him), the game felt more right than Legend ever did.

I don't have any hope on Tomb Raider going back to it's roots, there's no reason to it. To be honest, I don't care. I'll just enjoy my favorites and download a few custom levels :)

And before anyone starts bashing me about the concept of what is and isn't Tomb Raider, that's my opinion, it's right to me, doesn't mean it's right to you. It's relative.

100% agree :)

RoseTyler
27-05-06, 23:23
100% agree :)

Me too!

Mary CF
28-05-06, 04:25
....put it this way I don't get my parents to buy me games like most of you...

Umm... actually I was 10 years old in 1996 when I bought my first TR... and I paid for it using my allowance money (which I 'earned' by doing chores on a daily basis).

I was just listening to a TRAOD song... :rolleyes: Yes I have the TR soundtracks in my playlist... and that's another thing about the game that I liked. One of the few, and it certainly wasn't underdeveloped. Good music. :tmb:

CerebralAssassin
28-05-06, 05:10
it seems to me that everybody is playing this game for different reasons..maybe CD should put a little bit of everything in the next game so everybody is happy.. :)

Legend of Lara
28-05-06, 11:13
I likes TRL but it would have been better if it had Kurtis in it.
(Yes, I'm one of them :mis:)