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PirateRose
14-07-06, 04:03
I'm quite angry right now. I was in a conversation with this stupid man, who said that there will never be a female super heroine with the status like Superman, Batman, Spiderman, and Wolverine. I of course said what about Lara Croft? He said there is no way since both movies failed and the last 3 games sucked. He then made the point that there has never been a very good female heroine movie, and shockingly that is true!

Catwoman, Elektra, and Tomb Raider itself all bombed in the theatres. Then there is the thought about the comic books. I had watched this thing on comic books the other day, the only woman mentioned was Wonder Woman on the list of famous comic book heros, and she was only discussed for only a few moments about how someone tried takeing her powers away and a bunch of feminist got angry.
Even in books it seems like heroines are overshadowed. I mean, everyone seems to think about Mr. Darcy over Elizabeth Bennet who is truely the hero of Pride and Prejudice. When ever anyone talks about a Pride and Prejudice movie, its always "Colin Firths version" or "David Rintouls version" not "Jennifer Ehleors verison" or "Elizabeth Garvies version."

Why is it there are no famous heroines like the four heros mentioned above! Its driving me crazy! Is it because people still view men as the only strong type and not women? Did people even put effort into those movies, or did they just do it for the sake of having it out there, like the man I was talking about said.

This makes me want to work harder on my characters in my own writings. I can't stand the thought that there are no high status super heroines!

xMiSsCrOfTx
14-07-06, 04:07
Well... There was Wonderwoman. Doesn't look like she lasted very long, though, lol. Lara Croft is definitely up there (to me at least, she always has been), but I'm waiting for the next high status super heroine. I think the reason we don't have any popular female superheroes or anything is the lack of stories these days. You see most movies are remakes anyway, we need someone super creative to make a new one up.

DREWY
14-07-06, 04:14
What about Ripley. She kicked major butt.

GodOfLight
14-07-06, 04:15
I'm quite angry right now. I was in a conversation with this stupid man, who said that there will never be a female super heroine with the status like Superman, Batman, Spiderman, and Wolverine.

i think before you we can hope to get any further with male and female super-hero equality, you need to get over your immense hatred for men
:)

DREWY
14-07-06, 04:16
That was slightly uncalled for GoL, immense hatred?

Sarah Conner too. Too good for Arnie

PirateRose
14-07-06, 04:25
i think before you we can hope to get any further with male and female super-hero equality, you need to get over your immense hatred for men
:)

Didn't I say somewhere I had a boyfriend? I don't have an immense hatred for men. I just hate the fact that any one could possiable be holding on to the idea that men are stronger and better.

edit: wow I just realized I reach 1,002 posts with this one. 1,000 must have been the start of this thread. At least I think... X.x

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 04:29
I like heroes whether they are men or women. Just because male superheroes seem to be mroe successful doesn't mean that people are being sexist for taking a greater interest. If one outnumbers the other I don't care because they can both be really cool. However, if some one prefers female heroes over male heroes, or visa versa, I don't think it's sexist at all. It's all personal preference.

You have to look at things in other perspectives sometimes. Men aren't the only ones who are overall favored, just in some categories. Women are favored in others. Fashion, interior design, and makeup artist for example. Just to list a few. Sure, there are some guys that are in the industry, but over all there are a lot more women than men. Honestly, if I were to get a makeover I'd much rather have a woman do it for me than a man. It doesn't mean I'm sexist.

In all reality, society is more biased toward females more than males. That's why women get away with jokes like, "Men are stupid, throw rocks at them", whereas a man wouldn't dare make such a joke about a woman, lest he be criticized. Feminist have created such a double standard. I definitely appreciate the fact that women were given equal rights, because we are not any less important than men; although, feminist tend to take it to the extreme. Equal isn't good enough, feminist want women to get special treatment over men. The sad fact is that we do. A woman can get away with so much more than a man could ever dream of.

I'm sort of drifting off the subject though. I don't think you're a feminist by any means PR.

Although, I must say that I don't think the reason why female heroes are less popular is due to gender issues. I don't know about your opinion, but it seems as if every single female hero movies are just lame. Maybe not all, but definitely the majority. They are way too unrealistic and send off nothing more than a "girl power!" message. I think that female heroine movies should be more realistic. It would definitely help!

The problem with hollywood is that they are trying to turn these women into men. I know, I know, you might think that statement sounds weird, but at least hear me out. I'll use the first Tomb Raider movie for example. Lara had her guns at her hips at all times, but tell me, how often did she even use them? There was WAY too much hand to hand combat. That last battle was just pathetic. Lara Croft, a 125 pound woman, beat up a full grown man hand to hand. Let's face it ladies, our bodeis just don't contain as much strength as a man's does, especially upper body strength. So why on earth are movies making females strong in the same sense that a man would be? We might as well have a male lead!

Instead, Lara could have used her wit, athleticism, and guns to take him down. Sure, hand to hand combat is cool, but if that's going to be used, it should be done woman v.s. woman. Not only is that mroe interesting, but it's a lot more realistic. Seriously, who on earth would want to watch a chick flick with a man taking the place that the woman would usually be and visa versa? The same applies here, but to a different extent. Females make great heroines, but only if they are truly interpretted how females should be. Women aren't as physically strong as men, it's a scientific fact. These movies need to try something else for a change!

If so, I think female heroine movies would be a lot more successful. I'd much rather watch them, that's for sure. :)

GodOfLight
14-07-06, 04:32
Didn't I say somewhere I had a boyfriend? I don't have an immense hatred for men. I just hate the fact that any one could possiable be holding on to the idea that men are stronger and better.


yes, i remember that post of yours. you said you had a boyfriend, and in the same post said that you hated men :p i thought it was funny... in an unhealthy sort of way...

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 04:34
I just hate the fact that any one could possiable be holding on to the idea that men are stronger and better.


Well men are stronger. Not better, but stronger. They were built with more strength than women, and in this case, science is rarely defied. I've only heard of a woman beating up on a man twice, and both were really big women. In one case a man was threatening this woman, so she attacked him and broke his ribs! He wasn't a little guy either! I think that is awesome how she was able to defend herself like that, but in all honesty, how many times do we hear about thing like that happening?

Secondly, if some movies did make their women stronger, for the sake of realism, they'd have to be pretty big women. And we all know what type of women appeal to the general audiences of these movies. There's no way a 125 pound woman could be that strong.

PirateRose
14-07-06, 04:35
yes, i remember that post of yours. you said you had a boyfriend, and in the same post said that you hated men :p i thought it was funny... in an unhealthy sort of way...

=P ever notice how married women seem to hate men?
I watched this documentry about this indian tribe in the amazon. the women are all sitting around makeing cloths and one of them says:

"Men are so lazy, I hate them," and they all agree.

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 04:39
If you hate men then you are no worse than the sexist men out there who think women are inferior.

Men and women are equal and should be treated as such. Society likes to pretend that men are so dumb and women are far morei ntelligent, but that is far from the truth. If men are so dumb then why are so many of them scientist and doctors? In all reality, there are more males in those fields than females.

Although I stand by what I said before, males and females are equal. None is smart than the other or better.

I don't understand why our world has to be a battle of male v.s. female. We're supposed to work together and live in harmony. Men are better at some things and women are better at some things too. Just because we are different doesn't mean one is better than the other. If male and female were exactly the same then there would be no need for two genders.

PirateRose
14-07-06, 04:39
Well men are stronger. Not better, but stronger. They were built with more strength than women, and in this case, science is rarely defied.


Well yes, physically speaking men are built to be stronger, but what I'm talking about is that brave, hero strong. The strong will, the strong personality, that inner strength that makes us love heros!

GodOfLight
14-07-06, 04:40
=P ever notice how married women seem to hate men?
I watched this documentry about this indian tribe in the amazon. the women are all sitting around makeing cloths and one of them says:

"Men are so lazy, I hate them," and they all agree.

ha ha... yes it is funny on the surface...

but firstly, i dont think any woman really means this.

and secondly, if a woman really does hate men, then she should seriosuly consider looking closely at her self.

i'm not saying men are all perfect simply because i am one. i know many men are capable of some nasty things.. but then again so are women.. only 'nasty' in a different way.

as much as i agree with the equality of the sexes, i think women who spend their time demasculating men are actually covering up their own insecurities and issues, and at the same time giving up their own femininity and submitting themselves to men without knowing it in the process.

PirateRose
14-07-06, 04:41
Men and women are equal and should be treated as such. Society likes to pretend that men are so dumb and women are far morei ntelligent, but that is far from the truth. If men are so dumb then why are so many of them scientist and doctors? In all reality, there are more males in those fields than females.


There are more men in those fields because we keep teaching little girls to want to be into pretty and cute things, fashion and makeup. Society influences. There are programs that are trying to get young girls more interested in those things, but they are intemidated by the fact it is male dominated.

xMiSsCrOfTx
14-07-06, 04:44
Well men are stronger.

With the exception of body-builder women. *Cringes* :D

GodOfLight
14-07-06, 04:47
There are more men in those fields because we keep teaching little girls to want to be into pretty and cute things, fashion and makeup. Society influences. There are programs that are trying to get young girls more interested in those things, but they are intemidated by the fact it is male dominated.

yes, you are very correct with that.. but this has nothing really to do with the hatred of men.

back on topic though: i can understand you to a certain extent. when i tell some of my male friends who are comic book fans and love superman, spiderman, batman etc etc and i say that my favorite super-hero is lara croft, they just start laughing. why/ because lara is only presented as two big breasts. and yes, the movies and the games are to blame for that. that is lara's first and primary feature: two big breats. and yes, it is pathetic. no one cares that she is an interesting character... no one cares that she has a whole epic story surrounding her with tr4-aod and with the new 'legend'. all everyone ever seems to remember is that she has big breasts :rolleyes: and most boys who have dabled here and there in video games, remember no more then the beginning of tr2 and trying out nude raider.

so yes, i can understand your point with that, we do live in a male dominant soicety, and yes this is primarily due to certain religious influences. but there are tonnes of other reasons aswell. yet, i do not think that any progress is made in hating men simply out of spite.

PirateRose
14-07-06, 04:48
With the exception of body-builder women. *Cringes* :D

A lot of those girls use drugs.

Anyways, this has gone a little off track. I'm trying to say here I'm angry at the fact that some guy goes around thinking that way. That it is impossiable for there to be able to be a heroine that is popular, and I was stateing tha facts that I think a lot of people think the same way.

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 04:52
as much as i agree with the equality of the sexes, i think women who spend their time demasculating men are actually covering up their own insecurities and issues, and at the same time giving up their own femininity and submitting themselves to men without knowing it in the process.

Couldn't have said it better myself. :tmb:

Well yes, physically speaking men are built to be stronger, but what I'm talking about is that brave, hero strong. The strong will, the strong personality, that inner strength that makes us love heros!

Well some movies still have that. You should watch Fargo! :D That's a true story. Not just based either, it's 100% factual. Well at least that's what they say. :p

There are more men in those fields because we keep teaching little girls to want to be into pretty and cute things, fashion and makeup. Society influences. There are programs that are trying to get young girls more interested in those things, but they are intemidated by the fact it is male dominated.

So women shouldn't want to look pretty and like cute things, fashion, and makeup? That's part of what makes women feminine. Why should that be taken away?

Regardless, the reason why females are so feminine is not because of our society. It definitely may have an impact to an extent, but honestly, the estrogen in our bodies cause us to be feminine, and well, makeup, fashion, and cute things are feminine. Of course most women will be drawn to those things, no matter what society teaches.

I was raised in a very tom boyish setting. I had to brothers who I was around 100% of the day, each and every single day. I rarely had any friends that were girls when I grew up. That's probably one reason why I love football and video games so much. I did everything my brothers did. However, I'm still very, very feminine. I love cute things, I wear makeup every single day, and I like wearing fashionable clothing. I wouldn't use society as an excuse. Even if, what's wrong with a woman being a woman? I don't get it. Feminist want to be men to bad it kills them.

psychokitten
14-07-06, 04:54
I just finished reading "Why Men Don't Listen & Women Can't Reap Maps" and I have to say, it really helped me appreciate the different skill sets both men and women have :)

But back to the topic...
I do agree that there should be more female superheroes...I mean, Superman is hardly what you'd call realistic, and Supergirl bombed at the movies.

Has anyone seen the Uma Thurman movie, My Super-Ex Girlfriend?

PirateRose
14-07-06, 04:58
No, what I'm saying with makeup and fashion seems to be all we are teaching the little girls.

It disturbs me to see little girls at my job putting makeup on and fixing their hair. It disturbs me just as much to see little girls at my job wish they were boys because they hate makeup and fashion.

Yeah sure its become a feminine symbol now, but whats wrong with anyone likeing things because thats what they like. Not because it is male or female! Not because mommy and daddy teach them thats how they are suppose to act and look and behave.

PirateRose
14-07-06, 05:01
Has anyone seen the Uma Thurman movie, My Super-Ex Girlfriend?

That movie to me seems very much to play and make fun of a womans emotions, and turn it to the extremes. To me its saying a female super hero would be a hormone, pms witch unable to control herself.

psychokitten
14-07-06, 05:04
Ever heard of the Israeli Kibbutz? They've lived for 90 years with no sex-specific toys, no makeup, no media influence, no sport etc....but boys still did boy things like kick each other and create groups with specific leaders, and girls still stood in circles and giggled and did their hair.

Just a point :)

whats wrong with anyone likeing things because thats what they like.
I do agree with your point though PR, and I do think many people are influenced too easily.

psychokitten
14-07-06, 05:05
To me its saying a female super hero would be a hormone, pms witch unable to control herself.
Well...what do you think Superman would be like if he had PMS?

PirateRose
14-07-06, 05:09
Well...what do you think Superman would be like if he had PMS?

PMS is not what movies and television make it out to be. Women do not always loose completely control of their emotions, if they even loose control at all. If that were a true fact, who knows what kinds of chaos the world would be in. Women would truely have to be confined to the home so they won't embarrass themselves and their families.

DREWY
14-07-06, 05:15
Well...what do you think Superman would be like if he had PMS?

UP UP and AWAY ! http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/ad/superman.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)
I ain't touching that one!
Will we be back on topic anytime soon? You remember,the movie bit, with women in it?

PirateRose
14-07-06, 05:19
Meh, I'm going to bed now, this didn't go the way I thought it would go and has gone off topic. X.x

DREWY
14-07-06, 05:21
http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/signs068.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org) PR

psychokitten
14-07-06, 05:40
Sorry PR, I was just kiddin... :)

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 05:49
Ever heard of the Israeli Kibbutz? They've lived for 90 years with no sex-specific toys, no makeup, no media influence, no sport etc....but boys still did boy things like kick each other and create groups with specific leaders, and girls still stood in circles and giggled and did their hair.

Just a point :)


A very good point at that! :tmb: I completely agree. The reason why women are feminine and men are masculine is because it's in our dna. not becaue of our society.

I already stated that I grew up with two brothers and barely any female influence, yet I'm still very, very feminine right now. Society had nothing to do with my personality. I was even homeschooled, so there was no peer influences either. It's just in my blood, I want to be feminine. Not because anyone taught me to believe that, it's just because I want to! :D

Society had taught me that I'd never make it in college since I was homeschooled, yet I'm doing great! A lot bettert han the people who told me I would do bad in fact.

Most people ultimately do what they want to do regardless of what they hear from outside sources.

Paperdoll
14-07-06, 12:18
Ok... let me try to stay on topic... I think I can agree with Pirate Rose to some extent because in comic books women always seem to have a secondary role, there aren't that many female characters with their own magazine, movie etc. The only one I can think of is Witchblade and the movie I watched was a piece of trash. Female heroines never seem to have the same exposure as Spider-Man and Batman etc. Comic books are usually set in fantasy worlds where a woman can be as strong as a man (super power wise) and yet they're either secondary or the damsels in distress, with a few rare exceptions.

Another example is the vampire stories that little young girls write in writing websites, about which everybody complains in the respective forums: the story always revolves around a vampire kidnapping a girl and making her his slave, with all that comes with that, with the girl resisting yet ending up to accept it and to love the vampire. (I would elaborate this more but I'll restrain myself because of the "all age forum" thingy). However, you can count with your fingers the number of stories where the girl actually rebels.

If we want equality, we should all have the same rights and able to do the same things, wether we're men or women. No excuses, no nothing.

Dingaling
14-07-06, 12:25
The Tomb Raider films did badly? What weird dimension you living in? The first film had the biggest opening for a female action titled movie thing. Something like that.

Now let us all hail and praise: Xena, Buffy Summers, Cordelia Chase, Sarah Connor, Wonder Woman, Ellen Ripley, Tru Davies, Elektra... err.. the other ones :D (Specifically Xena, Buffy, Ellen, Cordelia and Tru!)

Mona Sax
14-07-06, 12:44
I think it's because almost all of the poular superheroes have their roots in the Golden and Silver Ages of the comic book industry ('30s/'40s, '60s), where society's view on women was totally different from ours. This can still be felt in today's comic books and movies because the characters' personalities and backgrounds are etched in stone, reinventions are hardly ever accepted by the fans. That's why Supergirl and Black Cat will never be more than sidekicks to their male counterparts.

If you want strong heroines, you have to look for new movies (the aforementioned Sarah Connor and Ellen Ripley) and alternative comic books (Witchblade, Fathom, Danger Girl, Lady Death).

illuminati30
14-07-06, 13:18
Well what about super girl? lol The Xmen movies had some great female characters. What about storm? However, these comic books are old, and it was probably not likely that they would choose a female character, so in a sense PirateRose you are right. These probably were very different times, when comic books were for and aimed at boys. However, times are changing, its just a matter of time.


Honestly, if I were to get a makeover I'd much rather have a woman do it for me than a man. It doesn't mean I'm sexist.

It kind of does actually.


In all reality, society is more biased toward females more than males. .

Go and tell that to all the females who are under paid, or miss promotion, or discriminated against because they might have children, and need time off, or even bullied or sexually harassed in the work place.


That's why women get away with jokes like, "Men are stupid, throw rocks at them", whereas a man wouldn't dare make such a joke about a woman, lest he be criticized. .

This is all just fun. Women have been treated like dirt for centuries; surely we can allow them to have some fun. Let’s face it, men are dogs who treat women like ****, most of the time. Take for example a boy who puts it about. What do we say? 'Oh he is being a man, he is becoming a man, he is sowing his wild oats.' When a woman does this she is a slut.


The problem with hollywood is that they are trying to turn these women into men. I know, I know, you might think that statement sounds weird, but at least hear me out..

Some guys think that to be female, or be female acting is degrading. I guess you must think this about a woman being manly as well.

I'll use the first Tomb Raider movie for example. Lara had her guns at her hips at all times, but tell me, how often did she even use them? There was WAY too much hand to hand combat. That last battle was just pathetic. Lara Croft, a 125 pound woman, beat up a full grown man hand to hand. Let's face it ladies, our bodeis just don't contain as much strength as a man's does, especially upper body strength. So why on earth are movies making females strong in the same sense that a man would be? We might as well have a male lead! ..

Anyone who does martial arts will tell you that such a thing is highly possible. Its entirely possible for the smallest person you can imagine to take out the biggest person you can imagine.

I'll Sure, hand to hand combat is cool, but if that's going to be used, it should be done woman v.s. woman. ..

Oh pleasseeeee! I am surprised you like Lara Croft at all! You are letting your side down.

Mel, if you think women get a fair hand in this world, you have just confirmed for me that you know nothing about life other than what’s going on in your own little microcosm.

interstellardave
14-07-06, 13:22
The Tomb Raider films did badly? What weird dimension you living in? The first film had the biggest opening for a female action titled movie thing. Something like that.

Now let us all hail and praise: Xena, Buffy Summers, Cordelia Chase, Sarah Connor, Wonder Woman, Ellen Ripley, Tru Davies, Elektra... err.. the other ones :D (Specifically Xena, Buffy, Ellen, Cordelia and Tru!)

BUFFY for the win!!! :D

And the guy mentioned in the 1st post was off-base about Lara Croft... even if you think the movies stink and some of the games stink, the exact same thing can be said of Superman and Batman!

illuminati30
14-07-06, 13:24
Men and women are equal and should be treated as such. Society likes to pretend that men are so dumb and women are far morei ntelligent, but that is far from the truth.



Men are not dumb when they can stop thinking about sex for 5 mins. A woman will think with her brain, were as a man will think with his dick.

I work in care. Only men are allowed to work with men, but women are allowed to work with both men and women. I dont personally feel this is fair as it presumes all men are going to be sex offenders. Anyway, having worked with both men and women in care work, take it from me, men are lazy!

Lara's Boy
14-07-06, 13:28
BUFFY for the win!!! :D

And the guy mentioned in the 1st post was off-base about Lara Croft... even if you think the movies stink and some of the games stink, the exact same thing can be said of Superman and Batman!


^ Exactly as Dave said....Batman games have notoriously sucked, and it took two crappy Batman movies before we got Batman Begins. I think that the male superheroes had their origins in a pre Woman's Suffrage era, and many of their 'fans' haven't really changed their mindset. You mentioned Elektra; sure it bombed at the movies (though I personally like the artistic look of it), but fans were almost outraged when she was killed in the Daredevil series. She had her OWN comic in a time when it was either a team hero effort, or a solo male. I think it is just easier to let prejudice blind one against such obvious achievments for women in these varied artistic media. And just look at our own Lara: She has her own models, she endorses products from Credit Cards to Energy Drinks, uses her name to sell Cell phones and vehicles, was on tour with U2, had her own comic series.....has been on the cover of well over 200 magazines...what more proof is needed that we do have women who kick ass?

illuminati30
14-07-06, 13:33
Ever heard of the Israeli Kibbutz? They've lived for 90 years with no sex-specific toys, no makeup, no media influence, no sport etc....but boys still did boy things like kick each other and create groups with specific leaders, and girls still stood in circles and giggled and did their hair.

Just a point :)




Males tend to be more aggressive, no doubt about it, but i am sure there was the odd woman here and there who kicked and was the leader of some groups, and the odd boy here and there who liked to play with hair! Lol!

illuminati30
14-07-06, 13:37
Most people ultimately do what they want to do regardless of what they hear from outside sources.

Actually, i dont agree. If you constantly tell someone they cant do something, they will start to believe it. You obviously have a strong personality to turn round and say 'bugger you, i am going to college' and well done to you for that.

However if someone is told over and over that they are worthless, and particularly from a young age, they will start to believe they are.

interstellardave
14-07-06, 13:40
In my opinion we don't need women to be more agressive, or act more like men (not as a "political statement" anyway--if it's in an individuals' nature, then fine). What we really need is for men to be less agressive in general. Especially the whole "thug" mentality--it needs to go away fast, not spread and bleed into the young female population, as it seems to be doing.

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 13:42
Mel, if you think women get a fair hand in this world, you have just confirmed for me that you know nothing about life other than what’s going on in your own little microcosm.

That's pretty much all I wasted my time reading of your post... This proves to me that you make prejudgements about people without even knowing them. :rolleyes: I know a lot more about life than you think. You'd have to know a person to make a statement like that. Otherwise you just make yourself look like a fool. With your mentality, I could make the exact statement about you.

Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I don't know anything about life.

Attention everyone! If you disagree with illumati you don't know anything. He's all knowing!

Sheesh, you don't know the first thing about carrying a healthy debate.

psychokitten
14-07-06, 13:51
Now let us all hail and praise: Xena, Buffy Summers, Cordelia Chase, Sarah Connor, Wonder Woman, Ellen Ripley, Tru Davies, Elektra... err.. the other ones (Specifically Xena, Buffy, Ellen, Cordelia and Tru!)
*Hails and praises the greatness of all of those*! :D Especially Buffy and Ripley, they rock.

Males tend to be more aggressive, no doubt about it, but i am sure there was the odd woman here and there who kicked and was the leader of some groups, and the odd boy here and there who liked to play with hair! Lol!
Yes I was being very general hehe, that's true!

illuminati30
14-07-06, 14:01
That's pretty much all I wasted my time reading of your post...

It was at the end, you must have read it all lol


This proves to me that you make prejudgements about people without even knowing them....

I have read a lot of your posts now. You see life as black and white. Boys should wear blue and girls should wear pink. Life does not work like that, and you criticize my mentality.

Attention everyone! If you disagree with illumati you don't know anything. He's all knowing! .

:vlol:

You are right there! Joking aside, have i ever claimed this people? No.

Sheesh, you don't know the first thing about carrying a healthy debate.

I dont? I am just saying how i feel, i thought you would appreciate that as you are not into suger coating things.

Back on topic

So do you actually believe women are treated as fair? This is what drove me to say what i did, because the idea is obscene.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 14:42
Men are not dumb when they can stop thinking about sex for 5 mins. A woman will think with her brain, were as a man will think with his dick.

I work in care. Only men are allowed to work with men, but women are allowed to work with both men and women. I dont personally feel this is fair as it presumes all men are going to be sex offenders. Anyway, having worked with both men and women in care work, take it from me, men are lazy!

Speak for yourself... And I mean YOURSELF.

By far if your defination of a man is a lazy bum on a couch with a beer can in his hand, then you really are misinformed about your own sex.

There is a whole different breed of both men and women who strive to achieve the best they can. Situations like sexual arousal during a professonal task only indicates to me that the person is weak in mind or for that matter... Utterly disgraceful. Men who truly strive to be the best they can have little time for such trivialities. They save their love for the person who truly deserves it, and strive to achieve everything with a passion.

Back on topic:

Offcourse there hasn't been a lack of hollywood heriones. On the contrary, its increasinly becoming a cliche. Take movies like Ultraviolet, or Elecktra for instance.

There is even a parody coming out regarding the topic. I think most of you already have heard of the movie "My Super-Exgrilfriend."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26Z4d1MEI2M&search=My%20Super-Ex%20Girlfriend

Oh... Never breakup with a super woman ;); The concequences are dire Lol!

illuminati30
14-07-06, 15:16
Speak for yourself... And I mean YOURSELF.

By far if your defination of a man is a lazy bum on a couch with a beer can in his hand, then you really are misinformed about your own sex.



I was waiting for this.

I didnt say all men think about sex all day, or were lazy nor did I say i was refering to myself did I? A woman looks for love and commitment, were as most men are just looking to put a notch in their belt. You can kid your self on that this is not the case in the majority of times if you like. This tends to be why i am friends with females more than males, as you can actually have a conversation with them which does not involve discussing all parts of the female anatomy in detail. Again though, i am not saying all males are like this.

I think i know my own sex pretty well, probably more than you, although on second thought maybe not! :p

Catapharact
14-07-06, 15:19
Then its a cultural issue, not a gender one. There is a difference. Didn't I say perversion of any kind destroys respect? Yet people are open to bisexuality and such. *Sigh...* Such hypocracy.

illuminati30
14-07-06, 15:23
Then its a cultural issue, not a gender one. There is a difference. Didn't I say perversion of any kind destroys respect? Yet people are open to bisexuality and such. *Sigh...* Such hypocracy.

I have no idea if this is aimed at me or not. Bisexuality and perversion are not the same thing my dear, will you ever understand this?

Open minded to the roles of males and females changing, open minded to bisexuality, open minded to a lot of things changing? Whats hypocritcal about that then?

interstellardave
14-07-06, 15:27
I was waiting for this.

I didnt say all men think about sex all day, or were lazy nor did I say i was refering to myself did I? A woman looks for love and commitment, were as most men are just looking to put a notch in their belt. You can kid your self on that this is not the case in the majority of times if you like. This tends to be why i am friends with females more than males, as you can actually have a conversation with them which does not involve discussing all parts of the female anatomy in detail. Again though, i am not saying all males are like this.

I think i know my own sex pretty well, probably more than you, although on second thought maybe not! :p

You do have a different perspective as a male than other males would have... ;)

I myself can discuss many things very well... if the topic is women and how wonderful their bodies are :D I can discuss that fluently. Sometimes, depending on the group or situation you're in, that is just a natural talking point. But that doesn't diminish my ability to talk about a great many other things... and it's true that there are as many different types of men as their are grains of sand... same with women. I know women who "think with their *you know* and they make horrible decision after horrible decision themselves.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 15:29
Not directed, but definately discussed.

To say that respect for one another comes though open flirtation and having multiple partners is just a twisted excuse to continue on such behavior. If a person truly respects his/her partner, then there shouldn't be the need to go having an affair regardless of gender preference.

Its when society openly condones objectification and demorilization of something as sacred as love and relationship that things go outta hand. You do know that the U.S. comes as the third top country with the highest divorce rate?

If objectification was replaced by true respect and life principles, you'll see a drrastic change.

illuminati30
14-07-06, 15:30
You do have a different perspective as a male than other males would have... ;)

I myself can discuss many things very well... if the topic is women and how wonderful their bodies are :D I can discuss that fluently. Sometimes, depending on the group or situation you're in, that is just a natural talking point. But that doesn't diminish my ability to talk about a great many other things... and it's true that there are as many different types of men as their are grains of sand... same with women. I know women who "think with their *you know* and they make horrible decision after horrible decision themselves.

This is true, but i think there are more guys who think like this than women, and its usually womens feelings that pay the price for this.

interstellardave
14-07-06, 15:35
This is true, but i think there are more guys who think like this than women, and its usually womens feelings that pay the price for this.

The women who pay the price are the women making dumb decisions themselves, usually not the smart women who think with their brains! Women fall for these guys who "only want one thing" because they are not selective enough. I've known women who wouldn't know a good man if they tripped over him. They instead jump right into bed and into so-called "relationships" with just the kind of guy who is going to break their hearts. Contrary to what we see in movies, however, where this guy is "evil" and the woman is blameless; I think the woman is equally at fault. They aren't obligated to hook up with these losers and they should be expected to know better! :(

Catapharact
14-07-06, 15:38
I partially agree with that statement. However, its those losers that give intelligent and decent guys a bad rep. Its those losers that end up spreading the cliche that all guys are rats. Its like me saying "All confident girls are sluts." Untrue by a long shot. I for one am not gonna take the stupid sense of "Guys just think about getting under a woman's skirt."

illuminati30
14-07-06, 15:39
Not directed, but definately discussed.

To say that respect for one another comes though open flirtation and having multiple partners is just a twisted excuse to continue on such behavior.

Who has ever said that though?

If a person truly respects his/her partner, then there shouldn't be the need to go having an affair regardless of gender preference.

Its when society openly condones objectification and demorilization of something as sacred as love and relationship that things go outta hand. You do know that the U.S. comes as the third top country with the highest divorce rate?

If objectification was replaced by true respect and life principles, you'll see a drrastic change.

I agree with you, although i am not sure if you are still talking about bisexuality. Bisexuality does not have to = sleeping with a lot of people.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 15:41
I agree with you, although i am not sure if you are still talking about bisexuality. Bisexuality does not have to = sleeping with a lot of people.

I distinctly remember someone on this forum who either claimed or is bisexual to openly admit his feelings for other partners besides his girlfriend. Man, I need to find that post.

Dingaling
14-07-06, 15:43
I distinctly remember someone on this forum who either claimed or is bisexual to openly admit his feelings for other partners besides his girlfriend. Man, I need to find that post.

Many people regardless of their sexuality do this (sleep with other people and/or have feelings for others).

illuminati30
14-07-06, 15:43
I partially agree with that statement. However, its those losers that give intelligent and decent guys a bad rep. Its those losers that end up spreading the cliche that all guys are rats. Its like me saying "All confident girls are sluts." Untrue by a long shot. I for one am not gonna take the stupid sense of "Guys just think about getting under a woman's skirt."

Again, i never said all guys. However, my female friends will tell me that most guys run a mile at the thought of commitment. This puts to mind the film 'down with love'! lol what a great movie that is. The roles of males and females in reverse, and the women are the ones out to have a good time, and the guys desperate to be married lol

Catapharact
14-07-06, 15:45
Many people regardless of their sexuality do this (sleep with other people and/or have feelings for others).

Well then, all I can say to them is don't ever commit or for that matter, Lie about commitment to your partner. Be clear that you aren't interested in a long term relationship. That way, you are both on the same page.

illuminati30
14-07-06, 15:46
I distinctly remember someone on this forum who either claimed or is bisexual to openly admit his feelings for other partners besides his girlfriend. Man, I need to find that post.

I have no idea who this is, but whats the big deal, its just one person, it does not mean all bisexual people will sleep around. Plus its ok to desire other people, as long as you dont do anything about it behind the persons back, thats the betrayal.

Being in a relationship does not equal being dead. Its ok to desire other people, ie look but not touch.

interstellardave
14-07-06, 15:47
I partially agree with that statement. However, its those losers that give intelligent and decent guys a bad rep. Its those losers that end up spreading the cliche that all guys are rats. Its like me saying "All confident girls are sluts." Untrue by a long shot. I for one am not gonna take the stupid sense of "Guys just think about getting under a woman's skirt."

I'm not defending those guys, I'm just saying it takes two to make a big mistake, sex, marriage or relationship-wise. No matter how "wronged" the female may be, she's not helping herself by ignoring her role in what happened. She may at the very least need to wise-up the next time she dates a man, but she can't keep making her own mistakes and then wonder why she got dumped on by yet another loser!

illuminati30
14-07-06, 15:47
Well then, all I can say to them is don't ever commit or for that matter, Lie about commitment to your partner. Be clear that you aren't interested in a long term relationship. That way, you are both on the same page.

If only some guys could be honest to women like this. I think a lot of guys do lie about commitment to get what they are after. Again, i didnt say all guys did i?

Catapharact
14-07-06, 15:49
Again, i never said all guys. However, my female friends will tell me that most guys run a mile at the thought of commitment. This puts to mind the film 'down with love'! lol what a great movie that is. The roles of males and females in reverse, and the women are the ones out to have a good time, and the guys desperate to be married lol

Then the opinion in quite biased isn't it? Just because your friends had bad luck finding good guys doesn't mean there aren't good men out there. A good red-blooded male would only commit when he knows he has found the right one. I wouldn't have commited or even said I love you to my love if I wasn't absolutely sure that she was the person I wanted to be with all my life.

illuminati30
14-07-06, 15:51
The women who pay the price are the women making dumb decisions themselves, usually not the smart women who think with their brains! Women fall for these guys who "only want one thing" because they are not selective enough. I've known women who wouldn't know a good man if they tripped over him. They instead jump right into bed and into so-called "relationships" with just the kind of guy who is going to break their hearts. Contrary to what we see in movies, however, where this guy is "evil" and the woman is blameless; I think the woman is equally at fault. They aren't obligated to hook up with these losers and they should be expected to know better! :(

Then these women will have no place to complain when it goes wrong and you will probably find they wont. Some women do put up with a lot of crap and make bad choices, granted. Love is blind and all that. However, you can not always tell who is going to betray you. Sometimes the person you dont expect will do so.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 15:52
I'm not defending those guys, I'm just saying it takes two to make a big mistake, sex, marriage or relationship-wise. No matter how "wronged" the female may be, she's not helping herself by ignoring her role in what happened. She may at the very least need to wise-up the next time she dates a man, but she can't keep making her own mistakes and then wonder why she got dumped on by yet another loser!

Agreed. I guess women and men just think that dating and relationship is another game of "Lets play house" for a day. Quite revoulting.

interstellardave
14-07-06, 15:53
If only some guys could be honest to women like this. I think a lot of guys do lie about commitment to get what they are after. Again, i didnt say all guys did i?

It's always a two-way game though. There are plenty of women who will lie or, in any other way they can, manipulate men into getting what they want.

Seriously, why is anyone trying to argue that either sex is somehow superior? All of us, men and women, have the same capacity to be anything from wonderful human beings all the way down to scum of the earth. I don't think gender influences where anyone falls on that scale.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 15:54
Being in a relationship does not equal being dead. Its ok to desire other people, ie look but not touch.

It never seemes to get to me. Meh, so another girl is cute; Does she has the same qualities my partner has? Is she beautiful, Intelligent, Strongwilled, talented? No? Then there is no contest.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 15:55
I don't think gender influences where anyone falls on that scale.

Bullseye.

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 15:55
I'm not defending those guys, I'm just saying it takes two to make a big mistake, sex, marriage or relationship-wise. No matter how "wronged" the female may be, she's not helping herself by ignoring her role in what happened. She may at the very least need to wise-up the next time she dates a man, but she can't keep making her own mistakes and then wonder why she got dumped on by yet another loser!

Exactly true.

Sure, lots of guys think about nothing but sex, and that's wrong; however. like Dave said, women have a part in that as well. Instead of labeling all men as pigs, we have to look at both sides of the issue. Lots of women dress provocatively and want the negative attention from men. Many women encourage those thoughts from men. If you're going to play the blame game, blame both the men thinking their thoughts and the women for encouraging it. In all reality, it's more the woman's fault in this scenario.

Bottom line: Men should respect women for who they are instead of picturing them naked. On the other hand, women should show some dignity for themselves and not wear immodest clothing.

It's difficult for women to be respected when so many of them dress and act like tramps. Sadly, we decent women have to suffer for their ignorance.

illuminati30
14-07-06, 15:58
Then the opinion in quite biased isn't it? Just because your friends had bad luck finding good guys doesn't mean there aren't good men out there. A good red-blooded male would only commit when he knows he has found the right one. I wouldn't have commited or even said I love you to my love if I wasn't absolutely sure that she was the person I wanted to be with all my life.

Reality check! This .....

Again, i never said all guys. However, my female friends will tell me that most guys run a mile at the thought of commitment.

is the case in most situations. Biased! Well lets ask the girls here then lol

However, again, i am not saying there are not nice guys out there, and well done to you for saying you love someone when you mean it. If only everyone would, and no i am not talking from my own experiance before you say i am!

Twiin
14-07-06, 15:59
Woh - this has turned into quite the debate, hasn't it?
I don't like the generalisations that are occuring - I can say that I'm not one of the 'majority' of guys that you seem to think exist.
A woman's anatomy is a thing of beauty, and I, for one, like to admire it. That doesn't mean I disrespect females, or am crude about it - I just like the shape of a woman!
Now, about heroines in comic/pop culture - I believe they're steadily on the rise. Although movies such as Elektra and Catwoman bombed (although I vaguely enjoyed Elektra), I don't believe it was because they were female superheroes - but because the movies were bad!
My favourite characters are, to be honest, mostly women - but I am able (being a guy myself) to associate more with male characters. But I just love a kick-ass independant woman! Down with the Damsel in Distress!

interstellardave
14-07-06, 15:59
Exactly true.

Sure, lots of guys think about nothing but sex, and that's wrong; however. like Dave said, women have a part in that as well. Instead of labeling all men as pigs, we have to look at both sides of the issue. Lots of women dress provocatively and want the negative attention from men. Many women encourage those thoughts from men. If you're going to play the blame game, blame both the men thinking their thoughts and the women for encouraging it. In all reality, it's more the woman's fault in this scenario.

Bottom line: Men should respect women for who they are instead of picturing them naked. On the other hand, women should show some dignity for themselves and not wear immodest clothing.

It's difficult for women to be respected when so many of them dress and act like tramps. Sadly, we decent women have to suffer for their ignorance.

I'm sure you've seen how young... VERY YOUNG... girls are dressing these days? :eek: You could literally be under the mistaken impression that you've caught them in the process of publically undressing... makes you wonder what the next decade will be like when they grow up!

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 16:00
Being in a relationship does not equal being dead. Its ok to desire other people, ie look but not touch.

So desiring nobody else but your spouse is equal to being dead? Hardly.

Desiring some one else is just as bad in my eyes. You're basically comitting adultry in your own heart. You may not be physically comitting the act, but emotionally you are. It may work out for some people, but definitely not for me. After I get married I won't want my husband desiring other women, nor will I let myself desire other men. Committing to some one is saying that you don't need anyone else but them. If you do need other people, even in your thoughts, then perhaps you shouldn't commit to a serious relationship at all.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 16:01
And thus it comes down to life Principles doesn't it? Most men and women don't have any in their lives; Thus they try to glamourise their lack of direction with random pleasures. Yeah... quite a solution :rolleyes:.

Jacob x5
14-07-06, 16:01
I don't think people still think of men as the stronger figure, but I think this idea of there being more heros than heroines has come from that old-fashioned view and is still around today.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 16:02
Woh - this has turned into quite the debate, hasn't it?
I don't like the generalisations that are occuring - I can say that I'm not one of the 'majority' of guys that you seem to think exist.
A woman's anatomy is a thing of beauty, and I, for one, like to admire it. That doesn't mean I disrespect females, or am crude about it - I just like the shape of a woman!

Admiration is one thing. Adultry and perversion is totally another. You don't need to sleep with a whole lotta women to admire their anatomy.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 16:04
So desiring nobody else but your spouse is equal to being dead? Hardly.

Desiring some one else is just as bad in my eyes. You're basically comitting adultry in your own heart. You may not be physically comitting the act, but emotionally you are. It may work out for some people, but definitely not for me. After I get married I won't want my husband desiring other women, nor will I let myself desire other men. Committing to some one is saying that you don't need anyone else but them. If you do need other people, even in your thoughts, then perhaps you shouldn't commit to a serious relationship at all.

You wouldn't need to desire anyone else if you find the right one :). You sure we aren't related? Lol!

illuminati30
14-07-06, 16:04
So desiring nobody else but your spouse is equal to being dead? Hardly.



No but to go around pretending that there is nobody else in the world who is attractive is insane. You cant control someone elses thoughts.

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 16:05
I'm sure you've seen how young... VERY YOUNG... girls are dressing these days? :eek: You could literally be under the mistaken impression that you've caught them in the process of publically undressing... makes you wonder what the next decade will be like when they grow up!

I know! :yik: It's crazy!

I heard about one school banning low rise jeans because the kindergarten girl were showing off their thongs. :eek:

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 16:06
You wouldn't need to desire anyone else if you find the right one :). You sure we aren't related? Lol!

Wow, you just said it perfectly in that one sentence! We must be related somehow. :p

Catapharact
14-07-06, 16:07
No but to go around pretending that there is nobody else in the world who is attractive is insane. You cant control someone elses thoughts.

Big difference between calling someone cute and actually wanting to jump into bed with em.

Pipolinne
14-07-06, 16:08
I feel very happy there isn't female heroins ,once super-heroes are nothing more an immature representation of men.

Instead, the truth is that women feel they have to be perfect heroins , imposing ourselves we must manage to have a career,kids,etc,without help,and,in the end of the day,still look perfect!!:hea:

But I do understand your fury,Pirate,once he said that in an offensive way.Next time,you can say,for a men who dislikes Lara, he knows quite a lot about Tomb Raider series: perhaps he feels scared,once,probably, never a woman like Lara will look at him :D!

And there's a difference between desiring someone and being married with another one: why should they not co-exist? I hope,if I ever marry,never to loose the capacity of considering another person atractive/desirable! If I decide to have another kind of relationship,that's another thing.

Twiin
14-07-06, 16:09
I think adulterers (Is that a word?) are crazy - they should count themselves lucky the've found one person - yet they manage to cop off with someone else?!

interstellardave
14-07-06, 16:09
So desiring nobody else but your spouse is equal to being dead? Hardly.

Desiring some one else is just as bad in my eyes. You're basically comitting adultry in your own heart. You may not be physically comitting the act, but emotionally you are. It may work out for some people, but definitely not for me. After I get married I won't want my husband desiring other women, nor will I let myself desire other men. Committing to some one is saying that you don't need anyone else but them. If you do need other people, even in your thoughts, then perhaps you shouldn't commit to a serious relationship at all.

To say that no-one will, or should, ever be tempted is perhaps a bit naive... I mean no offense, and I say this only because I know I have many years on you and you may find your position will soften (just a bit) as you get older.

To see someone and think "man, she (or he) is really hot!" is not the same thing as then thinking "I gotta have her (or him). I wonder if I can make it happen with her (or him)?" Either way, it's really the results that count. If you stay true to your partner in thought, word and deed then a few stray thoughts should not indict you. You may think someone else is "really hot" but if you still think of your partner as being your soul-mate and you still treat her/him with respect and caring, I really think you've done no wrong. Temptation really can't be avoided (as I would guess you will find out one day ;) ) but you never have to give in to it.

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 16:09
No but to go around pretending that there is nobody else in the world who is attractive is insane. You cant control someone elses thoughts.

There's a big difference between a man looking at another woman and thinking, "Oh she's pretty" and "Man, I'd like to sleep with her!"

You said "desire", which is totally different than thinking some one is attractive.

Dingaling
14-07-06, 16:10
I know this is going to sound like the most stupid question in existence but... unrequited love. If you (hypothetical warp drive people) love someone and they don't love you back but you go out with someone else, should you feel ashamed or whatnot?

See, I told you, stupid :p

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 16:11
To say that no-one will, or should, ever be tempted is perhaps a bit naive... I mean no offense, and I say this only because I know I have many years on you and you may find your position will soften (just a bit) as you get older.


Well I never said no one would be tempted. It's all about overcoming the temptation though. Once it starts, stop it immediately. That's my mentality.

interstellardave
14-07-06, 16:11
I know this is going to sound like the most stupid question in existence but... unrequited love. If you (hypothetical warp drive people) love someone and they don't love you back but you go out with someone else, should you feel ashamed or whatnot?

See, I told you, stupid :p

What a question... you really are a DINGALING!!! :p LOL, I couldn't resist that pun.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 16:12
I know this is going to sound like the most stupid question in existence but... unrequited love. If you (hypothetical warp drive people) love someone and they don't love you back but you go out with someone else, should you feel ashamed or whatnot?

See, I told you, stupid :p

You are fooling yourself and the other partner you are going out with. You aren't just hurting yourself but your partner as well by not being truthful. Not exactly a good way to begin a relationship.

illuminati30
14-07-06, 16:13
There's a big difference between a man looking at another woman and thinking, "Oh she's pretty" and "Man, I'd like to sleep with her!"

You said "desire", which is totally different than thinking some one is attractive.

Mel, when you meet your man, and he says to you that he NEVER thinks of going to bed with another woman, he is lying to you.

What matters is whether he does it or not. Its more healthy if he is honest with you and says 'yeah i sometimes think of other women, but i wouldnt do anything about it'

Dingaling
14-07-06, 16:16
Is that good or bad, interstellardave? LoL (and please don't say "It's deliberate, which isn't good". Unless that's the answer... -_-)

So, Catapharact, has that person to wait for their lifetime without loving someone else? Or at least wait until their love for that person dies (which could take a lifetime)?

See, love is all very confusing. All very complex. We should dissect it more :p

illuminati30
14-07-06, 16:16
Well I never said no one would be tempted. It's all about overcoming the temptation though. Once it starts, stop it immediately. That's my mentality.

Yeah, put some barbed wire round your leg, and when you have a sexual thought, jam it right in each time.

interstellardave
14-07-06, 16:18
Well I never said no one would be tempted. It's all about overcoming the temptation though. Once it starts, stop it immediately. That's my mentality.

Okay! I wasn't exactly sure how harsh your "line in the sand" was, LOL! I've openly admitted that I have a sort of a weakness for pretty ladies but I've never let it get the best of me aside from some naughty thoughts... but those thoughts don't steer my ship, as my wife of 16 years can attest! We've been through too many other problems to worry about being jealous of one another! And I sometimes catch her checking out a good looking guy too; but it's not a big deal to me. We're on a solid foundation. :)

Catapharact
14-07-06, 16:18
So, Catapharact, has that person to wait for their lifetime without loving someone else? Or at least wait until their love for that person dies (which could take a lifetime)?

a) Are you sure you love this person in question? If so, then her happiness comes first and yours second. If she is happy with the person she loves then you let her be and move on. Again, desire and true love are two different things.

b) Why are you asking this question?

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 16:19
Mel, when you meet your man, and he says to you that he NEVER thinks of going to bed with another woman, he is lying to you.


And you know this... how? You'd have to know every guy personally to say that. You like to make prejudgements about people, and you're just wrong.

Are you saying Cat is lying to us all?

Trust me, I won't marry a man like you illuminati, he'll think quite differently.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 16:19
Yeah, put some barbed wire round your leg, and when you have a sexual thought, jam it right in each time.

Is that how weak your mind is? Tsk tsk...

Catapharact
14-07-06, 16:21
Are you saying Cat is lying to us all?

Forget about it Mel; I wouldn't expect half this forum to understand such a thing as love from heart and soul.

Dingaling
14-07-06, 16:21
a) Are you sure you love this person in question? If so, then her happiness comes first and yours second. If she is happy with the person she loves then you let her be and move on. Again, desire and true love are two different things.

b) Why are you asking this question?

a) I love no such person, LoL. Unless you're royalling that "you" :D

b) I was just wondering. I'm a curious person =)

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 16:21
Yeah, put some barbed wire round your leg, and when you have a sexual thought, jam it right in each time.

There's a such thing as self control, ever heard of it?

You don't have to inflict physical pain to keep yourself from thinking things. For example, if I'm mad at some one, I can make myself not think bad thoughts about them. Sometimes it's hard, but I most definitely have the ability.

interstellardave
14-07-06, 16:22
Is that good or bad, interstellardave? LoL (and please don't say "It's deliberate, which isn't good". Unless that's the answer... -_-)

Actually I wasn't answering your question at all... you were saying that it was a dumb question so I said "you really are a dingaling" just to be funny. As in, only a "dingaling" would ask that! :cln:

But, to answer your question, unrequited love is a dead-end street. You should probably avoid getting into a real relationship until such time as you can "get over" your feelings for this person. It'll be a built-in distraction for you and will keep you from really being fully committed to finding out whether or not you have a future with the second person.

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 16:23
Forget about it Mel; I wouldn't expect half this forum to understand such a thing as love from heart and soul.

That's true. Most people don't understand how sacred love really is, and they take it for granted.

At least there are some of us who understand. :p

illuminati30
14-07-06, 16:23
Are you saying Cat is lying to us all? .

Perhaps, although he is still in hoonymoon stage, i mean what age is he, like 19?


Trust me, I won't marry a man like you illuminati, he'll think quite differently.

I dont expect you to, and i wont marry a woman like you either lol

illuminati30
14-07-06, 16:25
Is that how weak your mind is? Tsk tsk...

Some people actually punish themsleves to remind them selves of the pain that jesus endured, and to rid of sexual thoughts. No i wouldnt do this.

Dingaling
14-07-06, 16:26
Actually I wasn't answering your question at all... you were saying that it was a dumb question so I said "you really are a dingaling" just to be funny. As in, only a "dingaling" would ask that! :cln:

But, to answer your question, unrequited love is a dead-end street. You should probably avoid getting into a real relationship until such time as you can "get over" your feelings for this person. It'll be a built-in distraction for you and will keep you from really being fully committed to finding out whether or not you have a future with the second person.

Sorry interstellar, I worded that badly! LoL! I was actually asking is a "Dingaling" a good thing (or a bad thing). I checked it up and it's a scatter-brained or eccentric person, so I guess that is good in a way :D

But thanks for your answer as well :D

illuminati30
14-07-06, 16:26
There's a such thing as self control, ever heard of it?



Now who is making judgement? I said look and not touch didnt i? I have never cheated on anyone thank you very much.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 16:27
Perhaps, although he is still in hoonymoon stage, i mean what age is he, like 19?

21 actually. Alright, I'll take my Mom and Dad as an example. Still happily married and more comfortable in their age group than ever. My dad owns a construction Co. and thus meets a lot of international clients (some of them being women.) He never EVER even once thought of going into bed with any other woman (and I know my dad.)

illuminati30
14-07-06, 16:27
Forget about it Mel; I wouldn't expect half this forum to understand such a thing as love from heart and soul.

I dont sleep around, nor do i sleep with people i dont love. However, what i wont do is look down my nose at people and believe i am better than them.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 16:29
I dont sleep around, nor do i sleep with people i dont love. However, what i wont do is look down my nose and people and believe i am better than them.

What am I to think of people who end up making a mockery of something as sacred as love and devotion?

Race and gender isn't an issue; The person is. And if the person can't control as simple a thing as his loins or Labido, then I guess I do look down upon em.

illuminati30
14-07-06, 16:30
21 actually. Alright, I'll take my Mom and Dad as an example. Still happily married and more comfortable in their age group than ever. My dad owns a construction Co. and thus meets a lot of international clients (some of them being women.) He never EVER even once thought of going into bed with any other woman (and I know my dad.)

Your dad tells you about his sexual desires or lack of them? He is hardly going to tell you if he has thought about other women now is he.

interstellardave
14-07-06, 16:30
It seems that I'm the "old and wise one" in this conversation! I speak with a little more experience... and I would say that illuminati makes some valid statements that can apply to a lot of people, but I'd also say that people can (and should) change over time. Become better people.

So, what Cataphract and Melonie are saying is very true... to strive towards the kind of relationship they are talking about is a worthwhile goal. It is the path to true happiness--but they are also just young enough to perhaps not realize that the path is not always as black-and-white, nor as easily tread, as they make it out to be. Good people can fall--but they can get back up again and redeem themselves. Their failures do not necessarily make them unworthy of love or commitment. All of life is a growth process. Everyone needs a little leeway to screw up and be forgiven. :hug:

Catapharact
14-07-06, 16:33
Your dad tells you about his sexual desires or lack of them? He is hardly going to tell you if he has thought about other women now is he.

One thing he and I know the importance of is being upfront with another person (especially your own flesh and blood.)

I use him as my rolemodel in life (though sometimes he is a bit too trusting of other people.) I know for sure that he doesn't go astray. Again... wouldn't expect the forum to understand.

I find that people usually go astray to other partners just to prove to themselves that they are still sttractive/desirable. Oh the weakmindedness of it all. Is this lack of self-respect and self confidence that is the issue. I just need my partner to appreciate me for what I am. She expects me to be supportive; he pillar of strength when her strength gives out. How anyone be that if thay aren't even sure if they love the person.

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 16:35
I dont sleep around, nor do i sleep with people i dont love.

Well if you only sleep with people you love, then why would you desire to sleep with some one else? Even in your mind? I suppose you love them to?

If making love truly is about love for you, you won't desire the act with anyone else, because you don't love them. However, if you view making love as nothing but ag ood time, then of course you're going to think about other people.

I think that making love is something sacred, and should only be done in love. Which is why I'm waiting until I'm married. I'm not going to be in love with anyone but my husband, so why on earth would I desire anyone else?

And I agree with Cat's example about his parents. My parents have been married for 21 years and they control their thoughts. They never lust after other people, even in their minds. Of course I can't read their midns, but I know my parents extremely well, and I highly doubt they're just lying to me.

illuminati30
14-07-06, 16:36
What am I to think of people who end up making a mockery of something as sacred as love and devotion?

Race and gender isn't an issue; The person is. And if the person can't control as simple a thing as his loins or Labido, then I guess I do look down upon em.

Everyone has their reasons for what they do. As long as both parties know the situation then thats fine. Some people have a void in their life and will seek other things to make up for this. Some people will turn to drugs, alcohol or sex to make up for an emptyness in their life. You have to try and understand that some people have nothing, or have not been as lucky as you, or have had more to deal with than you.

How dare you say you are better than anyone else? How do you know how you might be if your situation was different, or for that matter who you might be 10 years from now.

Agent 47
14-07-06, 16:37
That's true. Most people don't understand how sacred love really is, and they take it for granted.

At least there are some of us who understand. :p

indeed..........not ALL guy's are bad, when i'm with someone i give my all so to speak, not once have i ever thought of cheating on someone as i'm strong willed and to be honest with you, i frown upon my mates who just get with a girl for one reason and one reason only :mad:

i was taught that, to respect others you first have to respect yourself, imo people who cheat have no respect for others or themselves

yes i myself have been cheated on (my last 3 ex's as it happens), i lost my way and thought all females where bad news, but it took a chat from my sister to convince me that not all females are bad and someone good will come along........that was 4 years ago,i'm still single i'm just not looking anymore.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 16:42
Everyone has their reasons for what they do. As long as both parties know the situation then thats fine. Some people have a void in their life and will seek other things to make up for this. Some people will turn to drugs, alcohol or sex to make up for an emptyness in their life. You have to try and understand that some people have nothing, or have not been as lucky as you, or have had more to deal with than you.

How dare you say you are better than anyone else? How do you know how you might be if your situation was different, or for that matter who you might be 10 years from now.

And thus my reflection on the lack of self respect. No one can ever achieve anything if they can't respect oneself first. How many times did I mention the importance of self-confidence? If you have enough of it, you would know that the problem to an alling marriage goes far beyond than just simple desire and lust for others.

I will stay my ground. I know who I am perfectly; I will remain loyal to who I love no matter what. I save my desire and lust only for her; PERIOD. I expect others to see the same thing. A person's past doesn't concern me; Its the potential they have inside of them to become a better person does.

illuminati30
14-07-06, 16:47
Well if you only sleep with people you love, then why would you desire to sleep with some one else? Even in your mind? I suppose you love them to?.

Why? Because i am human, and humans are sexual beings. However, i dont act upon it, but i wont lie to my partener and say that i never ever think of someone else in a sexual way, that would be lying.

If making love truly is about love for you, you won't desire the act with anyone else, because you don't love them. However, if you view making love as nothing but ag ood time, then of course you're going to think about other people.

Therefore its something special i do with that one person. If i am with someone and i know they desire other people, its fine, at the end of they day they still desire me, and keep the act of having sex as somethng they do with only me. Thats a special feeling.

lol it amazes me that you guys have conversations with your parents about sexual desires, and confess them to each other! Come on, do you really think your parents are REALLY going to tell you about people they desire?

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 16:47
indeed..........not ALL guy's are bad, when i'm with someone i give my all so to speak, not once have i ever thought of cheating on someone as i'm strong willed and to be honest with you, i frown upon my mates who just get with a girl for one reason and one reason only :mad:

i was taught that, to respect others you first have to respect yourself, imo people who cheat have no respect for others or themselves

yes i myself have been cheated on (my last 3 ex's as it happens), i lost my way and thought all females where bad news, but it took a chat from my sister to convince me that not all females are bad and someone good will come along........that was 4 years ago,i'm still single i'm just not looking anymore.

awww, you seem like such a great guy! I definitely agree with everything you've stated as well.

I'm sorry that you were cheated on. :( Although I'm glad you understand that there still are some good females out there. It's actually a good thing that you aren't really looking either. It seems like when people search for some one it doesn't turn out as well as it does if it just happens. As funny as that sounds lol.

I don't understand how anyone could think that desiring some one else in your mind is ok. All that is is immagining yourself cheating. There are some things you should keep out of your mind. You should never immagine yourself murdering someone, for example. The same applies with adultery.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 16:50
lol it amazes me that you guys have conversations with your parents about sexual desires, and confess them to each other! Come on, do you really think your parents are REALLY going to tell you about people they desire?

Cultural issue. Do NOT make me take this conversation into something everyone will dislike.

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 16:52
Therefore its something special i do with that one person. If i am with someone and i know they desire other people, its fine, at the end of they day they still desire me, and keep the act of having sex as somethng they do with only me. Thats a special feeling.


Wouldn't you feel a lot more special if they never thought of anyone else, just you?

lol it amazes me that you guys have conversations with your parents about sexual desires, and confess them to each other! Come on, do you really think your parents are REALLY going to tell you about people they desire?

Ok, so now you're assuming how our conversations go? :rolleyes: Another prejudgement right there.

My parents taught me a lot, and one of those things they taught me was to stay true to your spouse. Thinking about comitting adultry is just as bad as doing it. You can stop yourself if you have any ounce of self control.

Just because I've talked to my parents about fidelity doesn't mean we talk about sexual topics. You couldn't be more wrong, that's not something we talk about.

Legend of Lara
14-07-06, 16:56
This may sound obsessive, dull and uninspired but...
While the Sonic series has mostly male heroes there are female ones too.
Rouge is a stereotypical seductress. Count her out.
Cream sucks. Count her out.
Amy is a hardcore kick-ass girl with a huge weapon. Count her in.
Tikal is protective, kind and she sucks. Count her out.
Blaze sucks. Count her out.
So there's only one true heroine in the Sonic series. Big deal.

illuminati30
14-07-06, 16:57
Ok, so now you're assuming how our conversations go? :rolleyes: Another prejudgement right there.

My parents taught me a lot, and one of those things they taught me was to stay true to your spouse. Thinking about comitting adultry is just as bad as doing it. You can stop yourself if you have any ounce of self control.

Just because I've talked to my parents about fidelity doesn't mean we talk about sexual topics. You couldn't be more wrong, that's not something we talk about.

Thinking and doing are different things. Thats where self control comes in.

I really meant Cat, but really i dont think a parent would turn around and say they desire someone else would they?

Catapharact
14-07-06, 16:58
I really meant Cat, but really i dont think a parent would turn around and say they desire someone else would they?

I expect them to be truthful, and they have been with me. That is all.

interstellardave
14-07-06, 17:06
I think everyone needs to stop talking about thoughts here. People are acting like they know anything at all about what other people are thinking--when they cannot. You can certainly believe when people tell you they "never think this or that" especially if it's your parents, but what does it matter? I think deeds are what really matters.

As for this whole "thinking is as bad as doing", I'm sorry, but I've never understood this. It's always used regarding adultry but can you say it for other things? If someone makes you insanely angry and you think "I want to punch this person right in the face" is that the same as actually punching them? I'm sorry, but I can't see that it is. I think they whole meaning behind that adage is that lusting after someone in your heart puts you dangerously close to actually committing the adultry--and that's why you should avoid the lustful thoughts. Not that they thoughts themselves are equal to the deed, but that they lead you to the deed; ie, it's much easier to avoid doing it if you first avoid thinking it. That makes sense to me.

But lusting is pretty much an ongoing process... we're not talking about stray thoughts about a pretty--even sexy--person that you meet. I think lusting is when it becomes a fixation.

Melonie Tomb Raider
14-07-06, 17:08
Thinking and doing are different things. Thats where self control comes in.


Thinking about cheating on your spouse is just as bad as actually doing it in my opinion. Love isn't all about being physical, love is an emotion. If you're emotions are going toward some one else, even in thought, it's just the same as comitting adultry.

Self control shouldn't come in after you think a bad thought. Self control should come in before you think it. It's a lot easier to do something you've put a lot of thought into than just randomly doing it.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 17:11
But lusting is pretty much an ongoing process... we're not talking about stray thoughts about a pretty--even sexy--person that you meet.

Look, physical admiration is one thing but people here seem to take things to a whole new level. Its like as if everyone is comforatble with the idea of having more than one partner. HUH?!

My countrymen do practice polygamy just to let you ppl know, and I personally find it wrong. Commitment is commitment. If you can't commit then don't.

interstellardave
14-07-06, 17:13
Look, physical admiration is one thing but people here seem to take things to a whole new level. Its like as if everyone is comforatble with the idea of having more than one partner. HUH?!

My countrymen do practice polygamy just to let you ppl know, and I personally find it wrong. Commitment is commitment. If you can't commit then don't.

I hope you're not talking about me--I've only had TWO partners in my entire life! And I'm 40 years old. And none other than my wife since I met her. I'm just trying to iron out all this "thought control" talk going on.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 17:16
I hope you're not talking about me--I've only had TWO partners in my entire life! And I'm 40 years old. And none other than my wife since I met her. I'm just trying to iron out all this "thought control" talk going on.

You have a bad habit of thinking I am referring to you everytime I quote you :p Lol! No offcourse not :). I agree at your POV to some degree. Its just that... if there was a way to show how I feel about my love to everyone, they would understand where I am comming from.

interstellardave
14-07-06, 17:22
You have a bad habit of thinking I am referring to you everytime I quote you :p Lol! No offcourse not :). I agree at your POV to some degree. Its just that... if there was a way to show how I felt about my love to everyone, they would understand where I am comming from.

I think I understand... I love my wife with all my heart! But I have had a period of extreme temptation, that was not so easily avoided (although that's not meant as a total cop-out 'cause I didn't do all I could to avoid it--I see that now). I did overcome that, though, without committing any illicit acts. It never affected how I felt about my wife--it was more about overcoming something in myself; it was never about any disparaging feelings towards my wife. I never let it affect the way I treated my wife either. Truth be told, however, the experience did, in fact, probably make me a better husband than I was before! I feel even closer to my wife now and we get along even better. I think of it as just another chance to grow--one that I wisely took advantage of. You have to be smart enough in life to turn anything around into something positive. ;)

Catapharact
14-07-06, 17:27
I think I understand... I love my wife with all my heart! But I have had a period of extreme temptation, that was not so easily avoided (although that's not meant as a total cop-out 'cause I didn't do all I could to avoid it--I see that now). I did overcome that, though, without committing any illicit acts. It never affected how I felt about my wife--it was more about overcoming something in myself; it was never about any disparaging feelings towards my wife. I never let it affect the way I treated my wife either. Truth be told, however, the experience did, in fact, probably make me a better husband than I was before! I feel even closer to my wife now and we get along even better. I think of it as just another chance to grow--one that I took advantage of.

Quite respectable. I know you want to show everyone the middle ground here, but its kinda hard to displace one's feelings just to agree with someone Lol! You hit a barrier and you overcame it for your love; What more proof of your love can she ask for? Few people ever realize that. There is a big distinction between a few seconds of liberal crushing and a life long commitment with someone you know you'll cherish.

interstellardave
14-07-06, 17:42
Quite respectable. I know you want to show everyone the middle ground here, but its kinda hard to displace one's feelings just to agree with someone Lol! You hit a barrier and you overcame it for your love; What more proof of your love can she ask for? Few people ever realize that. There is a big distinction between a few seconds of liberal crushing and a life long commitment with someone you know you'll cherish.

Well thanks! :hug:

I just think I have a balanced perspective to offer here. Illuminati says some things that are true of quite a lot of people--but they don't have to be, not if people grow and change. You have to remember that not everyone has the benefit of the upbringing you and Melonie have had. You know with certainty how life should be. A lot of people need more time to come around to your way of thinking when they haven't been raised that way! I come from a broken home myself (although not adultry related) so I have really had to find my way on my own, and it took some time.

I understand the other side of the coin, and the desire to "be the big man, and get all the hotties" LOL. I was so not the guy who girls wanted to go out with when I was younger that I didn't date much--and I really wanted to, so that was really hard on my (at the time) fragile ego. I wasn't confident at all. I envied the guys who bedded all the babes, as it were. But now that I'm older I hear from a lot of unhappy people who really envy what I have! They want Love and can't find it, while I somehow did.

I realize looking back, though, that there were many chances (before I got married) for me to go astray--and the many times I really desired that random sexual encounter with the girl at the Pharmacy counter (I worked at Rite Aid then). I imagined how great it would be and, strictly as a physical thing, it might have been--but it could have prevented me from ever dating my now wife Kathi, who also worked at that Rite Aid with us. But I don't look back in disdain at young Dave--he's part of me, and yes, he rears his head once in a while too, but he IS me. He's just older and wiser now.

Catapharact
14-07-06, 17:51
I don't wanna make you a poster boy or anything Lol, but you are the kind of example I am talking about.

A measure of a man comes though his ablility to get up after taking the punches show the world what he is made of. You had a broken home and according to you Lol, a not so spectacular teenage love life. Yet you grew out of it all and became a better person as a result. This is what I admire most about a person; His/Her ability to make a better person outta themselves, regardless of difficulties.

You have my respect :).

illuminati30
14-07-06, 17:52
Well thanks! :hug:

I just think I have a balanced perspective to offer here. Illuminati says some things that are true of quite a lot of people--but they don't have to be, not if people grow and change.


I have not said anything particularly way out there, i have just said that even when people are in a relationship, they will still think about other people now and again. You even said this yourself. Yes people do grow up, it just takes guys a bit longer lol


You have to remember that not everyone has the benefit of the upbringing you and Melonie have had. You know with certainty how life should be. A lot of people need more time to come around to your way of thinking when they haven't been raised that way! I come from a broken home myself (although not adultry related) so I have really had to find my way on my own, and it took some time.



I hope you dont mean me Dave.

interstellardave
14-07-06, 18:04
I really appreciate that, Cataphract. :)

interstellardave
14-07-06, 18:16
I have not said anything particularly way out there, i have just said that even when people are in a relationship, they will still think about other people now and again. You even said this yourself. Yes people do grow up, it just takes guys a bit longer lol

I hope you dont mean me Dave.

Yeah, I have said that many times myself! I think random thoughts are different from "lusting". Lusting is kind of a fixation on someone, and not just "man is she gorgeous!" or even "man, if I wasn't married..." LOL. I know for a fact that such thoughts can fleetingly cross your mind when confronted with someone of stunning beauty and sexiness, but they don't have to mean anything is wrong with you or your relationship.

No, I wasn't specifically talking about you, just that some of the negative things you were saying of course apply to a lot of people, even if they are not what most of us would consider "ideal" qualities in a person. And I was stressing that Melonie and Cataphract have both referred to their strong family upbringing--which not everyone has to fall back on. Thus, they may have to realize that their message will fall on many deaf ears because of that. I would hope they would have faith that many people will still find Love and True Happiness even after doing all the bad things talked about here. The past created who we are right NOW but it need not have any bearing on where we wind up.

illuminati30
14-07-06, 18:26
Yeah, I have said that many times myself! I think random thoughts are different from "lusting". Lusting is kind of a fixation on someone, and not just "man is she gorgeous!" or even "man, if I wasn't married..." LOL. I know for a fact that such thoughts can fleetingly cross your mind when confronted with someone of stunning beauty and sexiness, but they don't have to mean anything is wrong with you or your relationship..

Exactly, tell that to Mel.


No, I wasn't specifically talking about you, just that some of the negative things you were saying of course apply to a lot of people, even if they are not what most of us would consider "ideal" qualities in a person..

I am just saying it like it is lol We can all go around in a fantasy world, and believe that our partners NEVER think of other people. However, its the not acting on it thats important.

kill bill
14-07-06, 19:01
am nina willams.in death by degress she is a heroine.

Mona Sax
14-07-06, 19:27
I'm not going to be in love with anyone but my husband, so why on earth would I desire anyone else?
You can't control that kind of thing, you know.

Gomes
14-07-06, 20:56
This has gone interestingly off topic. :)

Mona, I think you can control it. If you think you can't you choose for it to happen. Falling in love is not a kind of magic.

If you really want to have a monogamous relationship you will be able to. If you don't believe it possible or desirable - there are people that theorise it's bad for human autonomy and the growth of knowledge for instance - it won't happen.

Wolfguard
14-07-06, 21:31
I'm not going to be in love with anyone but my husband, so why on earth would I desire anyone else?

You can't control that kind of thing, you know.
Why not?

Sofitegan
14-07-06, 21:32
I understand and on some counts agree with the point you are making, Elektra and Catwoman were both terribly made films and the lead roles were extremely slutty and attractive. i wish things could be less "made for teenage boys" sometimes. My personal favourite heroine is Elizabeth Bennet from Pride And Predjudice, because she is headstrong and sticks to her guns, even though in that time it was made very difficult for a woman to do so. Elizabeth swanne (in my avatar) is also cool because she is realistic, but quite fiesty and determined. Both of these women generally dont use violence to get their way, which is quite admirable, and almost unheard of for a male hero. Having said that, i do love Buffy, Max(dark angel) and of course, Lara Croft.

Wolfguard
14-07-06, 21:42
I'm quite angry right now. I was in a conversation with this stupid man, who said that there will never be a female super heroine with the status like Superman, Batman, Spiderman, and Wolverine. I of course said what about Lara Croft? He said there is no way since both movies failed and the last 3 games sucked. He then made the point that there has never been a very good female heroine movie, and shockingly that is true!

Catwoman, Elektra, and Tomb Raider itself all bombed in the theatres. Then there is the thought about the comic books. I had watched this thing on comic books the other day, the only woman mentioned was Wonder Woman on the list of famous comic book heros, and she was only discussed for only a few moments about how someone tried takeing her powers away and a bunch of feminist got angry.
Even in books it seems like heroines are overshadowed. I mean, everyone seems to think about Mr. Darcy over Elizabeth Bennet who is truely the hero of Pride and Prejudice. When ever anyone talks about a Pride and Prejudice movie, its always "Colin Firths version" or "David Rintouls version" not "Jennifer Ehleors verison" or "Elizabeth Garvies version."

Why is it there are no famous heroines like the four heros mentioned above! Its driving me crazy! Is it because people still view men as the only strong type and not women? Did people even put effort into those movies, or did they just do it for the sake of having it out there, like the man I was talking about said.

This makes me want to work harder on my characters in my own writings. I can't stand the thought that there are no high status super heroines!
If it's any consolation Rose, I find many strong and prominant females in the fantasy books I've read, most notably the Wheel of Time series. Just because they aren't the main character doesn't lessen their importance, value or prominance in the story. The same can be said in regards to how they act, i.e. a female character who's a healer, or historian is no less important than a female character who can swing an axe.

Sofitegan
14-07-06, 21:46
If it's any consolation Rose, I find many strong and prominant females in the fantasy books I've read, most notably the Wheel of Time series. Just because they aren't the main character doesn't lessen their importance, value or prominance in the story. The same can be said in regards to how they act, i.e. a female character who's a healer, or historian is no less important than a female character who can swing an axe.
Very true. :tmb: :)

Melonie Tomb Raider
15-07-06, 04:00
You can't control that kind of thing, you know.

Yes you can. You don't just fall in love with some one in one day, love progresses. If you're married and start having feelings for some one else, stop seeing them and you won't fall in love with them.

Most definitely preventable.

psychokitten
15-07-06, 05:08
wow this thread is on a tangent hehe

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 06:15
If you really want to have a monogamous relationship you will be able to. If you don't believe it possible or desirable - there are people that theorise it's bad for human autonomy and the growth of knowledge for instance - it won't happen.
I said you can't control love or desire. Of course it's possible not to act on it.

Yes you can. You don't just fall in love with some one in one day, love progresses. If you're married and start having feelings for some one else, stop seeing them and you won't fall in love with them.

Most definitely preventable.
Ever heard of love at first sight? And how do you know you'll always love your husband? IMO marriage isn't "sacred", love is the only thing that matters. Why pretend it's still around when it isn't? If you really fall in love with somebody else (and believe me, that's not something you can stop by "not seeing them"), it's better to get a divorce than to live a lie.

Melonie Tomb Raider
15-07-06, 06:50
Ever heard of love at first sight? And how do you know you'll always love your husband? IMO marriage isn't "sacred", love is the only thing that matters. Why pretend it's still around when it isn't? If you really fall in love with somebody else (and believe me, that's not something you can stop by "not seeing them"), it's better to get a divorce than to live a lie.

Love at first sight only goes to a certain degree. Infatuation is really where it starts imo.

Also, I completely disagree with the whole idea of falling out of love with somebody. If you are truly in love with some one with all your heart and soul, it won't just disapear before your eyes.

Additionally, if you've found you're one and only true love, you're not gonna feel that same way about some one else. Unless you take true love lightly.

Just like some people take marriage too lightly. Some don't think that marriage is sacred, because in the back of their mind they think, "Oh well, if this doesn't work out I'll get a divorce." Love is nothing but a game for way too many people nowadays. I, however, view love, and marriage, as something sacred that should be respected and honored. If you aren't willing to commit and honor your vows, you should never wed. If you don't view marriage as something as serious as it is, then obviously you don't view your word very seriously either.

Lonely Istari
15-07-06, 07:05
And how do you know you'll always love your husband? IMO marriage isn't "sacred", love is the only thing that matters. Why pretend it's still around when it isn't? If you really fall in love with somebody else (and believe me, that's not something you can stop by "not seeing them"), it's better to get a divorce than to live a lie.

Marriage should be sacred. If you don't think that marriage is a sacred bond between husband and wife, then what is the point of marrying? Is it just an excuse to have everyone look at the girl in a big white dress? Seriously, if you don't view it as something sacred, then what is the point of doing it?

Gomes
15-07-06, 07:18
Mel, I really enjoy how you defend your beliefs. You show there is some good reasoning behind tradition.

I forgot to comment on the original topic on my previous post. I think when more women start writing fiction, be it movies or games, there will be more remarkable heroines.

Melonie Tomb Raider
15-07-06, 07:22
Marriage should be sacred. If you don't think that marriage is a sacred bond between husband and wife, then what is the point of marrying? Is it just an excuse to have everyone look at the girl in a big white dress? Seriously, if you don't view it as something sacred, then what is the point of doing it?

Exactly! If marriage isn't sacred to a person they should never marry at all. I don't get why they'd want to marry in the first place if they didn't view it as sacred. I don't know, maybe they think of it as just a big game of house. I have no idea...

Mel, I really enjoy how you defend your beliefs. You show there is some good reasoning behind tradition.

Awww, that was such a nice thing to say. :hug: Thanks. :)

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 16:09
Love at first sight only goes to a certain degree. Infatuation is really where it starts imo.

Also, I completely disagree with the whole idea of falling out of love with somebody. If you are truly in love with some one with all your heart and soul, it won't just disapear before your eyes.
You don't believe in falling out of love, I do. All I'm gonna say is that I've experienced it, and it's not nice at all.

Additionally, if you've found you're one and only true love, you're not gonna feel that same way about some one else. Unless you take true love lightly.
I don't believe in the one and only true love. I don't think there's just one single person for everybody out there.

Just like some people take marriage too lightly. Some don't think that marriage is sacred, because in the back of their mind they think, "Oh well, if this doesn't work out I'll get a divorce." Love is nothing but a game for way too many people nowadays. I, however, view love, and marriage, as something sacred that should be respected and honored. If you aren't willing to commit and honor your vows, you should never wed. If you don't view marriage as something as serious as it is, then obviously you don't view your word very seriously either.
First, your definition of marriage is different from mine. I assume you mean clerical marriage because you used the word "vows". To me, a wedding isn't about "till death do us part", it's simply a beautiful celebration of love that can take place in any way the participants want it to be (and if you know me even the slightest bit, you'll know that I don't see love as a game). I don't think I'll ever marry in a church because I couldn't seriously promise anybody to love them forever and ever - even though I wish I could. As I mentioned above, I can't control my feelings.

Second, by seeing marriage as "sacred", you obviously include your religion and your god in it. You'll understand that I can't share your beliefs here. To me, the only thing sacred in a relationship is my significant other.

Third, the church doesn't have a monopoly of marriage. If they can't accept my idea of an ideal wedding - see if I care. When it comes to love, all that matters to me is my gf/bf and me. I don't give a damn about what other people - most notably a bunch of old guys who have never had love - think.

Catapharact
15-07-06, 16:16
Third, the church doesn't have a monopoly of marriage. If they can't accept my idea of an ideal wedding - see if I care. When it comes to love, all that matters to me is my gf/bf and me. I don't give a damn about what other people - most notably a bunch of old guys who have never had love - think.

And thus the usual stereotype of the "Non-Married Priest/Religious man" comes in. I don't know about Christianity, but Islam not only allows the Imams to be wed, but actually encourages it.

It seems that divorce rate these days are on the rise in particular to the reason that people don't take the concept of marriage seroiusly. It had meaning before; Now its just another meaningless sham. It pains me to see it turn this way.

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 16:22
Double post...

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 16:24
And thus the usual stereotype of the "Non-Married Priest/Religious man" comes in. I don't know about Christianity, but Islam not only allows the Imams to be wed, but actually encourages it.
I wish it were like that in most Christian churches - priests usually have to be celibate.

It seems that divorce rate these days are on the rise in particular to the reason that people don't take the concept of marriage seroiusly. It had meaning before; Now its just another meaningless sham. It pains me to see it turn this way.
It definitely doesn't pain me, it only means people don't let religion dictate their lives anymore. I wish more people would follow their heart (and be honest about it - if you seriously fall in love with somebody else, don't cheat on you partner, tell them and, if necessary, break up instead!) and not stay together because other people say they have to.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 16:25
I know a couple who say they will never get married, and they say its better to know the person is there because they want to be, and not because they feel they have to be.

I also know a couple who have been together years, and they got married recently, and they say nothing has changed between them, other than the girls name changed and there is a bit of paper between them. It could be that people remained unhappily married in the past.

I guess if you feel your feelings might change, its not worth getting married at all.

Catapharact
15-07-06, 16:28
I do not find religion as an obstruction of seperation of couples if they aren't compatable; Divorces do happen in religious commmunities as well. However, the fact that a divorce is looked down upon, acts as a deterent for those who take a relationship lightly. If its ment to be serious, then it should be kept serious. Its not a game.

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 16:31
I do not find religion as an obstruction of seperation of couples if they aren't compatable; Divorces do happen in religious commmunities as well. However, the fact that a divorce is looked down upon, acts as a deterent for those who take a relationship lightly. If its ment to be serious, then it should be kept serious. Its not a game.
Nobody said it was. However, nobody should be forced (and being looked down upon is an informal way of pressure) to maintain a relationship if they're tired of their partners either. If you dislike divorces, don't get one, but don't go around judging people who do.

Catapharact
15-07-06, 16:34
Nobody said it was. However, nobody should be forced (and being looked down upon is an informal way of pressure) to maintain a relationship if they're tired of their partners either. If you dislike divorces, don't get one, but don't go around judging people who do.

And if a person is that set in their mindset, why should other people's judgements bother them at all? If you think you haven't done anything wrong, then think that way. Others will always have opinions; You can't change that.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 16:37
And if a person is that set in their mindset, why should other people's judgements bother them at all? If you think you haven't done anything wrong, then think that way. Others will always have opinions; You can't change that.

You wont ever be divorced then?

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 16:37
And if a person is that set in their mindset, why should other people's judgements bother them at all? If you think you haven't done anything wrong, then think that way. Others will always have opinions; You can't change that.
Not everybody's that secure. And I definitely don't think I've done nothing wrong at all, I know I have a lot of flaws, but getting a divorce from somebody I've fallen out of love with wouldn't be one. Staying in an unhappy marriage would be.

Catapharact
15-07-06, 16:42
You wont ever be divorced then?

You have seen her picture; What kind of a moron would leave a girl like that? Lol! She has given me all the happiness in the world. Sometimes, she gives too much of herself. All I can do on my part is make the rest of her life a living bliss.

Staying in an unhappy marriage would be.

Its not possible to fall "Out of love." I believe that in such situations; Love wasn't there in the first place.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 16:42
Not everybody's that secure. And I definitly don't think I've done nothing wrong at all, I know I have a lot of flaws, but getting a divorce from somebody I've fallen out of love with wouldn't be one. Staying in an unhappy marriage would be.

Yeah, some people have good reasons for being divorced. You think you know someone, but they can change, or you can see a different side to them. I think most people get married and do believe its forever, or at least hope that it is anyway. Apart from Hollywood people though, some of them are beyond a joke, although in saying that, their relationships do have a lot of addition pressure as well.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 16:44
You have seen her picture; What kind of a moron would leave a girl like that? Lol! She has given me all the happiness in the world. Sometimes, she gives too much of herself. All I can do on my part is make the rest of her life a living bliss.





I have yes, she is pretty, but i am a bit concerned by you saying that, because you dont marry someone because they are pretty, but i am sure you know this. Anyway, you never know what can happen.

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 16:45
Its not possible to fall "Out of love." I believe that in such situations; Love wasn't there in the first place.
I don't agree. It's not only possible, it's very common.

Also, I'm very happy for you and your girlfriend. I hope you'll feel the same way about her for the rest of your life.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 16:45
Its not possible to fall "Out of love." I believe that in such situations; Love wasn't there in the first place.

Try saying that to some woman who has been battered and bruised by the man she loves.

Catapharact
15-07-06, 16:49
Try saying that to some woman who has been battered and bruised by the man she loves.

Love goes both ways now doesn't it?

You can give all you want to the person, but if the person doesn't return the same feelings back, you can't call that love now can you? I call that BWS. That is why I keep on stressing that know who you get involved with; Totally.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 16:52
Its almost like your saying she deserves it for making a bad choice.


That is why I keep on stressing that know who you get involved with; Totally.

You cant never totally. Nor can you know whats going to happen to that person, and how it might affect them.

Catapharact
15-07-06, 16:56
I have yes, she is pretty, but i am a bit concerned by you saying that, because you dont marry someone because they are pretty, but i am sure you know this. Anyway, you never know what can happen.

Trust me; I have had my fair share of bimbos, and I can truly say that a pretty face that can't spark a convo or have big aspirations in her life, or for that matter, can't be self-reliant without a partner, isn't worth getting in a relationship with.

What attracts me the most about her, is that she has everything; Looks, Brains, Sense of Humor, Independent Spirit, and wants to experince the world in the same way I do. Yeah I do give the impression that nothing phases me, but there have been times where I have experienced a great deal of sorrow and disappointment. She along with family has been there to be a pillar of strength that I can lean on.

Its the main reason why I expect most guys to be strong-willed and confident, cause there will be a time where your own partner will need you to be there for them.

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 16:58
Its the main reason why I expect most guys to be strong-willed and confident, cause there will be a time where your own partner will need you to be there for them.
Some people just aren't, and putting them down won't exactly help. And I don't think getting a divorce is a sign of weak will at all. Rather the opposite: Those who do when they're not happy in a marriage decide to do what they want instead of what's expected of them.

PirateRose
15-07-06, 16:59
Nice, the thread went into what I wanted, and I had to be busy all day yesturday to miss it all!!!!!!

1.Little girls dressing immodest=there has also been a rise in little children does sexual things. For instance I work in a DayCare. So far their have been three cases of kindergarteners caught playing house as real husband and wives if you catch my drift. In fact, I even caught a boy and girl giggleing in the bathroom and well, showing stuff.

2.Women dressing immodestly is not always their own fault. Please someone, find me a pair of jeans that doesn't slip down and show my panties whenever I bend! I just got some midrise jeans and they still do that! and longer shirts too! please someone! I hate shopping for cloths, but I have to spend hours on hours looking for something thats not immodest!!! I go to shop in the older womens section, but those things are way too high on me, for some reason any pants/shorts/skirts that just press a little on my tummy makes me horriable sick. And well, they are older woman fashioned. No cartoon characters cept on the sleep wear, no band names, no funny or clever remarks on the shirts ( and I'm not talking the slutty kind, I'm talking the ones that would make you laugh like, I love you, but its nap time, and there is a picture of a cat). Why can't we just design our own clothing and make our own clothing??

3.unrequited love! My favorite kind of love, nothing is more tragic and depressing then being in love and that person not loveing back. Many of you have said to just move on, but alas as literature has shown for centuries, it is very difficult! Often resulting in death of the one who is loveing, but not by their own hand in many cases. A way of saying, thats the only way they can be relieved of their pain.

4.I saw someone saying its in our DNA to act male or female. I still say a lot of it is society. Sure women are more intended to be kind and care giving, simply because well we are made to take care of children. On the other hand, many cultures have women doing things in our culture we would call masculine. I remember reading about one culture, forgive me as I forgot where, but the women go out and do the providing, they go out on poker nights and smoke cigars, and men stay home with the children. So really, if I could ever find this article, this shows that men can be kind and care giving as well as women, and women can be lazy jerks as well as men. This can also be seen in the amazionian culture. They have found in recent years an anciet city of people dureing the Roman times in which women were burried with weapons of war and men burried with children and cooking pots.
I think the problem here is that either side can be lazy jerks, and not both kind and care giving!

5.Now for my deal with the super heroines. I'm not saying turn them in to men, I'm not saying turn them into violent beasts, I'm saying make them something people will look up to! Especially the little girls I see at work. They are hating being girls and are trying to lick their elbows so they can become boys (my boss told them that, its quite funny watching them, its just sad too). I tried talking to them about female super heros that are my favorite like Spidergirl and Lara Croft, but there is like this wall there.

Superman is better, Batman is better, Spiderman is better and it must be because they are all boys. Thats just the short of the logic of what I heard from these girls. And of course their mothers are freaking out about this, comeing to me and asking if their daughter is normal, asking if she plays with any girls or does anything girlie. Well no, they aren't doing anything girlie and they are playing with the boys, but you know what look at me I did the same thing as a kid, the only problem is I didn't wish to be a boy. My mother supported me growing up to make little disicions on my own like that, she didn't try to force me into cute dresses and take me over to tea parties. She didn't force me to watch My Little Pony instead of Spiderman, she didn't force me to watch Care Bears instead of Dragon Ball Z. She never stopped me from going out and playing war with the boys, playing star war jedi knights with the boys, playing with race cars and action figures with my brother. It's normal for little girls to want to do things we consider boy like personalty, its just their natural personality comeing out. Though its not normal to want to change their sex IMO.

Thanks to my mother not freaking out about me being girlie enough by society standards that say what is girl and what is boy, and letting me be who I am, I'm proud to be a woman and proud to be who I am. I like the the action flicks, not the chick flicks. I didn't wear makeup a lot till I was 18 and started getting serious about getting a boyfriend, FYI I didn't start dateing till I was 18 either. That is where I think that so called natural female personality kinda came in for me that Melonie keeps talking about. But then again, I don't mind at all going out on a date with my boyfriend and not wearing makeup. Thankfully he likes me just the same other wise, he'd be single! *cough*

The only thing I could say bothered me growing up, was in all these shows I loved to watch, there wasn't and outstanding woman heroine. When I discovered Lara Croft when I was 10, I was quite pleased! Finally, a women super heroine who stood on her own two feet, who didn't have guys saving her butt at the last second then letting the girl finish the work after the bad guy is weakened. A heroine who wasn't worried about dating, marriage, her appearance, and going to the mall. A heroine who was strong willed, brave, and intelligent. A woman who got down on her hands and knees and crawled through dirt and cobwebs, not freaking out and screaming bloody murder because there are spiders! A woman who didn't stop to fix her braid or check her makeup, in fact, it looked like she hardly wore makeup to me as a kid. A woman who could get a few bullets stuck in her and keep going till the end.

The only problem was that she was wearing the barely there, tight outfits. She has the gigantic breasts. As a child I didn't think much about that, but once into my teens I realized what seems to be keeping her from being one of the greatest woman super heroines. She has all those wonderful quilities, but her appearance sets her back saying almost that this is the only way we can get men to play.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 16:59
Trust me; I have had my fair share of bimbos, and I can truly say that a pretty face that can't spark a convo or have big aspirations in her life, or for that matter, can't be self-reliant without a partner, isn't worth getting in a relationship with.

What attracts me the most about her, is that she has everything; Looks, Brains, Sense of Humor, Independent Spirit, and wants to experince the worold in the same way I do. Yeah I do give the impression that nothing phases me, but there have been times where I have experienced a great deal of sorrow and disappointment. She along with family has been there to be a pillar of strength that I can lean on.

Its the main reason why I expect most guys to be strong-willed and confident, cause there will be a time where your own partner will need you to be there for them.

Good :tmb:

Catapharact
15-07-06, 16:59
Its almost like your saying she deserves it for making a bad choice.

I don't blame the victim; I blame the choice. If he is being that violent, then there is no love in that man; Just a sense of control. No one will blame you if you divorce him in that situation. Well... I wouldn't anyway.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 17:00
I don't blame the victim; I blame the choice. If he is being that violent, then there is no love in that man; Just a sense of control. No one will blame you if you divorce him in that situation. Well... I wouldn't anyway.

Good :tmb:

Catapharact
15-07-06, 17:03
Some people just aren't, and putting them down won't exactly help. And I don't think getting a divorce is a sign of weak will at all. Rather the opposite: Those who do when they're not happy in a marriage decide to do what they want instead of what's expected of them.

My complaint isn't with divorce; Its with getting into Marriage without thinking things through.

And if you can't be that strong for your partner... Then I simply say don't get into a relationship.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 17:08
Interesting post PirateRose :wve:

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 17:09
My complaint isn't with divorce; Its with getting into Marriage without thiking things through.

And if you can't be that strong for your partner... Then I simply say don't get into a relationship.
People change, even married people. If you're unlucky, your fiancée won't be the girl you once married in ten years. And anyway, are you sure you thought things through? You're very young to get married.

Also, what do you mean by being strong for your partner? In my opinion, you should stick around and provide support during pregnancy, sickness, financial problems and the like, but sticking around when you just don't love your significant other anymore is pure masochism.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 17:10
I actually have no problem with women wearing skimply clothes, and just because they do, it does make them a slut or a tramp. A guy will walk around in just a pair of shorts, does anyone bother? You go to a beach or a swimming pool, or some hot country were it is too hot for clothes, does anyone care there?

Lonely Istari
15-07-06, 17:11
I wish it were like that in most Christian churches - priests usually have to be celibate.

Most Christian churches actually are like that. :) Not all Christian Churches are Catholic. There are many different denominations such as Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheren to name a few that encourage marriage among their ministers. It is a very rare thing (though not necissarily a bad thing) to find a single Pastor. I know this because my father is a Reverend and I have met countless families similar to mine. I actually would concider Catholics to be the minority in this situation, as they are the only group (that I know of... correct me if I'm wrong) that discourages marriage among it's leaders.

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 17:13
^ But they're the largest Christian organisation by far.

Catapharact
15-07-06, 17:15
People change, even married people. If you're unlucky, your fiancée won't be the girl you once married in ten years. And anyway, are you sure you thought things through? You're very young to get married.

Trust me. A girl like her only comes once in a lifetime. It was a mutual decision, and if she says she isn't sure; I'll definately call it off; No pressure. We both made sure that I she and I understood that.



Also, what do you mean by being strong for your partner? In my opinion, you should stick around and provide support during pregnancy, sickness, financial problems and the like, but sticking around when you just don't love your significant other anymore is pure masochism.

I ment life and personal problems yes. Be honest with me; Would you stick around with someone who would break down and become a nervous wreak if things got hairy in life?

illuminati30
15-07-06, 17:16
Most Christian churches actually are like that. :) Not all Christian Churches are Catholic. There are many different denominations such as Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheren to name a few that encourage marriage among their ministers. It is a very rare thing (though not necissarily a bad thing) to find a single Pastor. I know this because my father is a Reverend and I have met countless families similar to mine. I actually would concider Catholics to be the minority in this situation, as they are the only group (that I know of... correct me if I'm wrong) that discourages marriage among it's leaders.

Would a pastor be against contraception? I seen one talking on TV, and he had 8 kids, so this made me wonder lol

A lot of the Catholic priests are celebit, and some of them only claim to be, and some of them are gay, but i guess they believe that life style is ungodly, so they will marry the church.

Catapharact
15-07-06, 17:17
I actually have no problem with women wearing skimply clothes, and just because they do, it does make them a slut or a tramp. A guy will walk around in just a pair of shorts, does anyone bother? You go to a beach or a swimming pool, or some hot country were it is too hot for clothes, does anyone care there?

You don't find a 300 pound hairy belled man walking down the beach displeasing? Lol!

illuminati30
15-07-06, 17:21
I ment life and personal problems yes. Be honest with me; Would you stick around with someone who would break down and become a nervous wreak if things got hairy in life?

Probably yes, because this can happen to anyone, even you and/or your future bride. I guess you will stay married to her, only if she shows no sign off weakness in her life :rolleyes:

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 17:21
Trust me. A girl like her only comes once in a lifetime. It was a mutual decision, and if she says she isn't sure; I'll definately call it off; No pressure. We both made sure that I she and I understood that.
That's great for you, but you should be aware that it's a decision made by the people you and your fiancée are now. There's a saying that people flow like a river, and I think it's quite fitting. If you two happily spend your life together, congrats. Just don't see it as a given.

I ment life and personal problems yes. Be honest with me; Would you stick around with someone who would break down and become a nervous wreak if things got hairy in life?
I don't think I'd fall in love with somebody like that in the first place. I usually go for bad boys and naughty girls. :D

illuminati30
15-07-06, 17:22
You don't find a 300 pound hairy belled man walking down the beach displeasing? Lol!

I often do! Nope i couldnt really give a **** to be honest, and i am certainly not disgusted by him, if thats what you are getting at.

Catapharact
15-07-06, 17:25
Probably yes, because this can happen to anyone, even you and/or your future bride. I guess you will stay married to her, only if she shoes no sign off weakness in her life :rolleyes:

Thats one of the reasons I love her to death; She is too proud to admit anything ;) Lol! I gotta coax it outta her. I know she is strong; She doesn't need to prove it to me anymore. If she needs help with a situation, offcourse I'll be there.

Just don't see it as a given.

You're talking to a guy who most probably would have seen an arranged marriage in his future Lol! Offcourse I'll never take it as a given.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 17:28
Thats one of the reasons I love her to death; She is too proud to admit anything.

Thats not healthy you know, and its almost pretending to be someone you are not.

Catapharact
15-07-06, 17:28
I often do! Nope i couldnt really give a **** to be honest, and i am certainly not disgusted by him, if thats what you are getting at.

Your call. If the man isn't disgusted by his own show of skin, then he wouldn't care what others think.

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 17:29
You're talking to a guy who most probably would have seen an arranged marriage in his future Lol! Offcourse I'll never take it as a given.
There's also another saying: Don't count your chickens before they are hatched. ;)

Okay, okay, I'll stop with the sayings! :D

illuminati30
15-07-06, 17:29
Your call. If the man isn't disgusted by his own show of skin, then he wouldn't care what others think.

I guess you dont like fat people either :rolleyes:

Catapharact
15-07-06, 17:30
Thats not healthy you know, and its almost pretending to be someone you are not.

And whining about how life is unfair and how everything bad only happens to you is?

illuminati30
15-07-06, 17:30
There's also another saying: Don't count your chickens before they are hatched. ;)

Okay, okay, I'll stop with the sayings! :D

I was just getting into them, start a thread of cool sayins :D

Catapharact
15-07-06, 17:32
I guess you dont like fat people either :rolleyes:

*Sigh* Did I say that? No. If I see a fat guy whining about how fat he is and how he hates himself, then yes, it would really get me riled up. However, if he doesn't care, than I don't care.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 17:32
And whining about how life is unfair and how everything bad only happens to you is?

Well thats the other extreme aint it? Thats not healthy either, no. A happy medium Cat. It takes being strong to ask when you need help with some thing, or to admit that you cant deal with something, or that something is too big, or scares you. You have just proven that.

Lonely Istari
15-07-06, 17:32
^ But they're the largest Christian organisation by far.

True, they are a larger organisation, but the amount of organisations that promote marriage seems to be far more compared to just that one that discourages it.

Would a pastor be against contraception? I seen one talking on TV, and he had 8 kids, so this made me wonder lol
That can be totally based on the persons view. Some pastors probably believe that if you get pregnant than that is what God wanted. But I wouldn't say that all are against contraception. My parents had 7 children. Don't ask me if they used anything! ha! I'm not about to find out! haha. However, my sisters who are married use birth control and my father is not against it. They have kids and love them to death, but getting back on the pill is a way of controling how many you have. In this day and age it is too expensive to have such large families anymore.

A lot of the Catholic priests are celebit, and some of them only claim to be, and some of them are gay, but i guess they believe that life style is ungodly, so they will marry the church.

This always makes me wonder. Why should they view marriage as something unholy when God is the one that gave it to us. It says in 1 Corinthians 7:9 - "But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn with lust'' - and I fully agree. Lets face it we are humans and we lust. None of us is God and we are all cabable of sin.

Catapharact
15-07-06, 17:33
There's also another saying: Don't count your chickens before they are hatched. ;)

Okay, okay, I'll stop with the sayings! :D

If a rough road happens to come by our way, we'll deal with it :).

illuminati30
15-07-06, 17:34
*Sigh* Did I say that? No. If I see a fat guy whining about how fat he is and how he hates himself, then yes, it would really get me riled up. However, if he doesn't care, than I don't care.

I see why she likes you, so full of compassion aint we :rolleyes:

Catapharact
15-07-06, 17:36
Well thats the other extreme aint it? Thats not healthy either, no. A happy medium Cat. It takes being strong to ask when you need help with some thing, or to admit that you cant deal with something, or that something is too big, or scares you. You have just proven that.

I expect ambition and drive from people to do the best they can. I rarely see that in people. However, I see it big time in her. In a country that is quite repressive towards women, she has achieved a lot, and I couldn't be anymore proud. All I wanna see is that same drive and determination continue on; and I highly doubt it'll ever end.

Catapharact
15-07-06, 17:38
I see why she likes you, so full of compassion aint we :rolleyes:

My compassion comes in a different form:

"Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day but teach a man to fish and he'll eat forever."

I'll no doubt offer him tips to lose that unhealthy excess weight. However, he needs the drive to accomplish his goals. He needs to work at it.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 17:38
This always makes me wonder. Why should they view marriage as something unholy when God is the one that gave it to us.

I dunno, they are a law unto themselevs, i mean even Jesus was married, but they dont want you knowing about that nooooo!


He says "It is better to marry than to burn with lust" and I fully agree. Lets face it we are humans and we lust. None of us is God and we are all cabable of sin.

Who says?

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 17:39
True, they are a larger organisation, but the amount of organisations that promote marriage seems to be far more compared to just that one that discourages it.
According to Wikipedia, 1 of the 2.1 billion adherents of Christianity are Catholics. If you add all the other cults and sects that don't allow their priests to marry, you'll see that celibacy really is dominant in Christianity.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 17:39
I expect ambition and drive from people to do the best they can. I rarely see that in people. However, I see it big time in her. In a country that is quite repressive towards women, she has achieved a lot, and I couldn't be anymore proud. All I wanna see is that same drive and determination continue on; and I highly doubt it'll ever end.

You sound like her teacher or her parent or summit.

Catapharact
15-07-06, 17:41
You sound like her teacher or her parent or summit.

We both teach each other and we both motivate each other. I however do not submit someone to anything they don't want to do; Its a person's choice entirely.

Lonely Istari
15-07-06, 17:44
According to Wikipedia, 1 of the 2.1 billion adherents of Christianity are Catholics. If you add all the other cults and sects that don't allow their priests to marry, you'll see that celibacy really is dominant in Christianity.

Well, If Wikipedia is right, then I will take back what I said. However, that doesn't mean that there aren't still MANY Christian churches that promote marriage.

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 17:44
This always makes me wonder. Why should they view marriage as something unholy when God is the one that gave it to us. It says in 1 Corinthians 7:9 - "But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn with lust'' - and I fully agree. Lets face it we are humans and we lust. None of us is God and we are all cabable of sin.
And Mona said, "It's better to burn with lust than to marry just because people tell you doing otherwise is a sin." And she saw that it was good.

Catapharact
15-07-06, 17:47
And Mona said, "It's better to burn with lust than to marry just because people tell you doing otherwise is a sin." And she saw that it was good.

Ever the Rebel :p.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 17:47
We both teach each other and we both motivate each other. I however do not submit someone to anything they don't want to do; Its a person's choice entirely.

The self confident and mighty cat needs nothing more than love and cuddles from the misses :hug:

Behind every good man, there is a good woman, just to add another saying. I should really amend this to suit bisexual and gay people shouldnt i LOL! Therefore, women must be the better sex. The end, thread finished, i cleared it all up folks! :p

Catapharact
15-07-06, 17:49
The self confident and mighty cat needs nothing more than love and cuddles from the misses :hug:

If ya ever got one of her cuddles, Trust me, you'll be running back for more ;).

Lonely Istari
15-07-06, 17:50
I dunno, they are a law unto themselevs, i mean even Jesus was married, but they dont want you knowing about that nooooo!

Just because that's what the DaVinci code suggests, does not mean it is true. I really do not believe that Jesus would ever marry. The Bible suggests that he is married to his people... that believers in Christ are the bride of heaven... sort of how Queen Elizabeth was said to be married to England.


Who says?

Romans 3:23- "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

Look around you. have you ever met anyone who has never sinned?

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 17:51
If ya ever got one of her cuddles, Trust me, you'll be running back for more ;).
Can I have one of her cuddles then?

Just kidding, I think I'd be killed (and not only by you!) if I tried anything like that. :p

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 17:52
Romans 3:23- "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

Look around you. have you ever met anyone who has never sinned?
Everybody? If there's no god, there can't be any sin.

Elysia
15-07-06, 17:54
Interesting thread...

I really do think that a lot of people have ridiculously high expectations of their relationships - not the individuals they are with, but the concept of the relationship as a whole.

I met my husband when I was 17. I married him at 21. 12 years later (8 of them married), we're still together and (touch wood) I can't see there being anything that would separate us.

There is no way out relationship is the same as when we met. I remember feeling giddy and excited when I used to see him - now it's more of a case of 'hey...' (or, to be more accurate, a running commentary in my head of 'oh, not the AC/DC shirt again - I thought I told you to throw it out!.... washing up not done... gosh, the hairs in your nose need trimming... I wonder what we'll have for dinner tomorrow...' etc etc... sorry, but 'tis the truth to married life!). You're not going to get 7 years down the line and be thinking 'Heeeeeeelllloooo, Mr Sex GOD!! Take me NOW!!!!!!'. Actually, you're most likely to be thinking 'Hello Mr Comfortable, want a cup of tea?'...

If you're expecting that sense of initial euphoria to last, then sorry, but you're not going to stay together... because it doesn't. Things become routine. Things become tedious. Even things that you used to enjoy. Boredom is, I am afraid, 80% of any long term relationship. It involves bills, washing up rotas, arguing over the duvet and farting. Lots of farting (you know you're in a long term relationship when all those essential but nasty bodily functions you desperately tried to hide from your other half all of a sudden really don't matter anymore... ;) ).

A lot of my divorced friends seem to have divorced due to this 'boredom', and that makes me a bit sad, because that 'boredom' also has a huge upside. Grant and I have our own in-jokes, we both slob out infront of the TV on a Friday night eating icecream (and farting...) rather than dressing up to go out to some nasty cattle-market club. Yes, I do miss those heady, giddy days of romantic excitement... but I wouldn't want to go back there. *wriggles around in her rut*. Quite comfy...

So , after a hell of a lot of rambling, I suppose a lot of people come into relationships with their expectations set to 'ridiculously high'. For a lot of this, I blame to media, with their 'keeping him satisfied' articles (yeah, well, sorry, but after a hard day's work, having to cook his tea and then having to shave his back and watch him trim his toenails, the LAST thing on my mind is a 3 hour 'sensual massage', followed by doing something unnatural with an ice cube...) and their 'eating for passion' tat (in my experience, quantity always outdoes quality in an evening meal... as long as he's full, it was hot and involved at least one dead thing, he's happy!). I read the likes of Cosmo and end up feeling really insecure and inferior simply because they keep telling me 'you have to have this and that to have the perfect relationship... and if it isn't perfect, you could always trade him in for a newmodel!'. Problem is, a new model would demand shaved legs all year round and wouldn't want to pig out on chips with me on a Saturday...

It saddens me that so many people get divorced because 'the magic is no longer there'. Well, sweetie, that's life, I'm afraid! Divorce due to adultery or violence is different - if hubby cheated on me, I'd boot his hairy behind straight out of the door - but all of this 'I just don't love you anymore...'... honestly, if I thought that was a legitimate excuse for divorce, we'd have been divorced 20 times over, simply because I know that I think, at least once a day, in the confines of my own head, 'oh, shut up you irritating, know-it-all, santimonious ARSE!!!'... and because I do it, I *know* he must do the same.

Relationships do not stay the same, in any way, shape or form, and the sooner the media realises this and allows us to set our own standards, the happier I think we'll all be...

Lonely Istari
15-07-06, 17:54
And Mona said, "It's better to burn with lust than to marry just because people tell you doing otherwise is a sin." And she saw that it was good.

You would rather burn with lust than to be able to have a pure relationship with someone?

Lonely Istari
15-07-06, 17:56
Everybody? If there's no god, there can't be any sin.

If there is no sin, then it's ok for someone to kill another? It's ok to rob a bank or store? It's ok to set fire to someones house? Why not if there is no such thing as sin...?

Catapharact
15-07-06, 17:57
Interesting thread...

I really do think that a lot of people have ridiculously high expectations of their relationships - not the individuals they are with, but the concept of the relationship as a whole.

I met my husband when I was 17. I married him at 21. 12 years later (8 of them married), we're still together and (touch wood) I can't see there being anything that would separate us.

There is no way out relationship is the same as when we met. I remember feeling giddy and excited when I used to see him - now it's more of a case of 'hey...' (or, to be more accurate, a running commentary in my head of 'oh, not the AC/DC shirt again - I thought I told you to throw it out!.... washing up not done... gosh, the hairs in your nose need trimming... I wonder what we'll have for dinner tomorrow...' etc etc... sorry, but 'tis the truth to married life!). You're not going to get 7 years down the line and be thinking 'Heeeeeeelllloooo, Mr Sex GOD!! Take me NOW!!!!!!'. Actually, you're most likely to be thinking 'Hello Mr Comfortable, want a cup of tea?'...

If you're expecting that sense of initial euphoria to last, then sorry, but you're not going to stay together... because it doesn't. Things become routine. Things become tedious. Even things that you used to enjoy. Boredom is, I am afraid, 80% of any long term relationship. It involves bills, washing up rotas, arguing over the duvet and farting. Lots of farting (you know you're in a long term relationship when all those essential but nasty bodily functions you desperately tried to hide from your other half all of a sudden really don't matter anymore... ;) ).

A lot of my divorced friends seem to have divorced due to this 'boredom', and that makes me a bit sad, because that 'boredom' also has a huge upside. Grant and I have our own in-jokes, we both slob out infront of the TV on a Friday night eating icecream (and farting...) rather than dressing up to go out to some nasty cattle-market club. Yes, I do miss those heady, giddy days of romantic excitement... but I wouldn't want to go back there. *wriggles around in her rut*. Quite comfy...

So , after a hell of a lot of rambling, I suppose a lot of people come into relationships with their expectations set to 'ridiculously high'. For a lot of this, I blame to media, with their 'keeping him satisfied' articles (yeah, well, sorry, but after a hard day's work, having to cook his tea and then having to shave his back and watch him trim his toenails, the LAST thing on my mind is a 3 hour 'sensual massage', followed by doing something unnatural with an ice cube...) and their 'eating for passion' tat (in my experience, quantity always outdoes quality in an evening meal... as long as he's full, it was hot and involved at least one dead thing, he's happy!). I read the likes of Cosmo and end up feeling really insecure and inferior simply because they keep telling me 'you have to have this and that to have the perfect relationship... and if it isn't perfect, you could always trade him in for a newmodel!'. Problem is, a new model would demand shaved legs all year round and wouldn't want to pig out on chips with me on a Saturday...

It saddens me that so many people get divorced because 'the magic is no longer there'. Well, sweetie, that's life, I'm afraid! Divorce due to adultery or violence is different - if hubby cheated on me, I'd boot his hairy behind straight out of the door - but all of this 'I just don't love you anymore...'... honestly, if I thought that was a legitimate excuse for divorce, we'd have been divorced 20 times over, simply because I know that I think, at least once a day, in the confines of my own head, 'oh, shut up you irritating, know-it-all, santimonious ARSE!!!'... and because I do it, I *know* he must do the same.

Relationships do not stay the same, in any way, shape or form, and the sooner the media realises this and allows us to set our own standards, the happier I think we'll all be...

Here is a woman who truly knows what she is talking about :). Well I believe the magix is still there; It just took a different form Lol! With age comes serenity and comfort, and what can be more comfortable than kowing that the person you loved all your life is still by your side :).

Catapharact
15-07-06, 17:58
Everybody? If there's no god, there can't be any sin.

There is still the question of morality.

Greenkey2
15-07-06, 18:00
Interesting thread...

I really do think that a lot of people have ridiculously high expectations of their relationships - not the individuals they are with, but the concept of the relationship as a whole.

I met my husband when I was 17. I married him at 21. 12 years later (8 of them married), we're still together and (touch wood) I can't see there being anything that would separate us.

There is no way out relationship is the same as when we met. I remember feeling giddy and excited when I used to see him - now it's more of a case of 'hey...' (or, to be more accurate, a running commentary in my head of 'oh, not the AC/DC shirt again - I thought I told you to throw it out!.... washing up not done... gosh, the hairs in your nose need trimming... I wonder what we'll have for dinner tomorrow...' etc etc... sorry, but 'tis the truth to married life!). You're not going to get 7 years down the line and be thinking 'Heeeeeeelllloooo, Mr Sex GOD!! Take me NOW!!!!!!'. Actually, you're most likely to be thinking 'Hello Mr Comfortable, want a cup of tea?'...

If you're expecting that sense of initial euphoria to last, then sorry, but you're not going to stay together... because it doesn't. Things become routine. Things become tedious. Even things that you used to enjoy. Boredom is, I am afraid, 80% of any long term relationship. It involves bills, washing up rotas, arguing over the duvet and farting. Lots of farting (you know you're in a long term relationship when all those essential but nasty bodily functions you desperately tried to hide from your other half all of a sudden really don't matter anymore... ;) ).

A lot of my divorced friends seem to have divorced due to this 'boredom', and that makes me a bit sad, because that 'boredom' also has a huge upside. Grant and I have our own in-jokes, we both slob out infront of the TV on a Friday night eating icecream (and farting...) rather than dressing up to go out to some nasty cattle-market club. Yes, I do miss those heady, giddy days of romantic excitement... but I wouldn't want to go back there. *wriggles around in her rut*. Quite comfy...

So , after a hell of a lot of rambling, I suppose a lot of people come into relationships with their expectations set to 'ridiculously high'. For a lot of this, I blame to media, with their 'keeping him satisfied' articles (yeah, well, sorry, but after a hard day's work, having to cook his tea and then having to shave his back and watch him trim his toenails, the LAST thing on my mind is a 3 hour 'sensual massage', followed by doing something unnatural with an ice cube...) and their 'eating for passion' tat (in my experience, quantity always outdoes quality in an evening meal... as long as he's full, it was hot and involved at least one dead thing, he's happy!). I read the likes of Cosmo and end up feeling really insecure and inferior simply because they keep telling me 'you have to have this and that to have the perfect relationship... and if it isn't perfect, you could always trade him in for a newmodel!'. Problem is, a new model would demand shaved legs all year round and wouldn't want to pig out on chips with me on a Saturday...

It saddens me that so many people get divorced because 'the magic is no longer there'. Well, sweetie, that's life, I'm afraid! Divorce due to adultery or violence is different - if hubby cheated on me, I'd boot his hairy behind straight out of the door - but all of this 'I just don't love you anymore...'... honestly, if I thought that was a legitimate excuse for divorce, we'd have been divorced 20 times over, simply because I know that I think, at least once a day, in the confines of my own head, 'oh, shut up you irritating, know-it-all, santimonious ARSE!!!'... and because I do it, I *know* he must do the same.

Relationships do not stay the same, in any way, shape or form, and the sooner the media realises this and allows us to set our own standards, the happier I think we'll all be...

Elysia, that was a stupendous :tmb: Oh how I wish more people could be as relaxed and at peace with themselves (and their relationships) as you are :D

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 18:01
You would rather burn with lust than to be able to have a pure relationship with someone?
No, but I'd never marry just to be able to have sex. I'm not going to buy a pig in a poke, and I'm definitely not going to marry until I'm 100% sure I never want to have a relationship with somebody else again (because, quite contrary to the image some people here have of me, I am faithful). If that makes me "burn with lust" in your eyes, well, so be it.

If there is no sin, then it's ok for someone to kill another? It's ok to rob a bank or store? It's ok to set fire to someones house? Why not if there is no such thing as sin...?
No. It's a crime, it's harmful and immoral. But it's not a sin IMO.

Pablo.CT
15-07-06, 18:06
Buffy The Vampire Slayer is a major Female Heroine. And the T.V series and Franchise is highly successfull.

Im a male and To be honest I prefer watching female hero's. They seem to do a better Job and they always look great

illuminati30
15-07-06, 18:14
Just because that's what the DaVinci code suggests, does not mean it is true. I really do not believe that Jesus would ever marry. The Bible suggests that he is married to his people... that believers in Christ are the bride of heaven... sort of how Queen Elizabeth was said to be married to England. ?

I aint read it. Yeah, Jesus was married to the ........ wait for it..... CHURCH. yeah right!

illuminati30
15-07-06, 18:15
If ya ever got one of her cuddles, Trust me, you'll be running back for more ;).

No doubt in my mind Mr Cat :D

illuminati30
15-07-06, 18:16
Look around you. have you ever met anyone who has never sinned?

No, i just wondered who you meant when you said he.

Lonely Istari
15-07-06, 18:16
No, but I'd never marry just to be able to have sex. I'm not going to buy a pig in a poke, and I'm definitely not going to marry until I'm 100% sure I never want to have a relationship with somebody else again (because, quite contrary to the image some people here have of me, I am faithful). If that makes me "burn with lust" in your eyes, well, so be it.

I think it's great that you chose not to marry until you are absolutely sure. I think more people should be like that.

Burning with lust and having sex are two different things IMO. Having sex is putting a temporary end to the burning. Don't get me wrong, Mona. I'm not directing this to you and saying that you "burn with lust." I am saying that it is natural for anyone to feel the desire for sex. But to me sex is as sacred as marriage and should be for that person whom you do expect to spend the rest of your life with.

Lonely Istari
15-07-06, 18:18
No, i just wondered who you meant when you said he.

Ah. Well, I meant God. :D

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 18:22
I think it's great that you chose not to marry until you are absolutely sure. I think more people should be like that.

Burning with lust and having sex are two different things IMO. Having sex is putting a temporary end to the burning. Don't get me wrong, Mona. I'm not directing this to you and saying that you "burn with lust." I am saying that it is natural for anyone to feel the desire for sex. But to me sex is as sacred as marriage and should be for that person whom you do expect to spend the rest of your life with.
I'm glad we share our views to a certain point. It only seems to be the question who you should have sex with where we differ. In my opinion, it should just be consensual. It it's simply for fun, good. If it's because you love each other, great. In that case it's the most beautiful way of saying "I love you". I don't think I'd be very happy if I limited myself to people who I expect to share the rest of my life with (though, obviously, that's what I wish for when I'm in love).

illuminati30
15-07-06, 18:22
Interesting thread...

I really do think that a lot of people have ridiculously high expectations of their relationships - not the individuals they are with, but the concept of the relationship as a whole.

I met my husband when I was 17. I married him at 21. 12 years later (8 of them married), we're still together and (touch wood) I can't see there being anything that would separate us.

There is no way out relationship is the same as when we met. I remember feeling giddy and excited when I used to see him - now it's more of a case of 'hey...' (or, to be more accurate, a running commentary in my head of 'oh, not the AC/DC shirt again - I thought I told you to throw it out!.... washing up not done... gosh, the hairs in your nose need trimming... I wonder what we'll have for dinner tomorrow...' etc etc... sorry, but 'tis the truth to married life!). You're not going to get 7 years down the line and be thinking 'Heeeeeeelllloooo, Mr Sex GOD!! Take me NOW!!!!!!'. Actually, you're most likely to be thinking 'Hello Mr Comfortable, want a cup of tea?'...

If you're expecting that sense of initial euphoria to last, then sorry, but you're not going to stay together... because it doesn't. Things become routine. Things become tedious. Even things that you used to enjoy. Boredom is, I am afraid, 80% of any long term relationship. It involves bills, washing up rotas, arguing over the duvet and farting. Lots of farting (you know you're in a long term relationship when all those essential but nasty bodily functions you desperately tried to hide from your other half all of a sudden really don't matter anymore... ;) ).

A lot of my divorced friends seem to have divorced due to this 'boredom', and that makes me a bit sad, because that 'boredom' also has a huge upside. Grant and I have our own in-jokes, we both slob out infront of the TV on a Friday night eating icecream (and farting...) rather than dressing up to go out to some nasty cattle-market club. Yes, I do miss those heady, giddy days of romantic excitement... but I wouldn't want to go back there. *wriggles around in her rut*. Quite comfy...

So , after a hell of a lot of rambling, I suppose a lot of people come into relationships with their expectations set to 'ridiculously high'. For a lot of this, I blame to media, with their 'keeping him satisfied' articles (yeah, well, sorry, but after a hard day's work, having to cook his tea and then having to shave his back and watch him trim his toenails, the LAST thing on my mind is a 3 hour 'sensual massage', followed by doing something unnatural with an ice cube...) and their 'eating for passion' tat (in my experience, quantity always outdoes quality in an evening meal... as long as he's full, it was hot and involved at least one dead thing, he's happy!). I read the likes of Cosmo and end up feeling really insecure and inferior simply because they keep telling me 'you have to have this and that to have the perfect relationship... and if it isn't perfect, you could always trade him in for a newmodel!'. Problem is, a new model would demand shaved legs all year round and wouldn't want to pig out on chips with me on a Saturday...

It saddens me that so many people get divorced because 'the magic is no longer there'. Well, sweetie, that's life, I'm afraid! Divorce due to adultery or violence is different - if hubby cheated on me, I'd boot his hairy behind straight out of the door - but all of this 'I just don't love you anymore...'... honestly, if I thought that was a legitimate excuse for divorce, we'd have been divorced 20 times over, simply because I know that I think, at least once a day, in the confines of my own head, 'oh, shut up you irritating, know-it-all, santimonious ARSE!!!'... and because I do it, I *know* he must do the same.

Relationships do not stay the same, in any way, shape or form, and the sooner the media realises this and allows us to set our own standards, the happier I think we'll all be...

:vlol: I love it! I hope he does not come in there though :confused: hehe

Yeah when you meet that person who sometimes you just cant stand, and just cant stand to look at sometimes, who will challenge your every thought, you knows its true love lol

illuminati30
15-07-06, 18:24
Here is a woman who truly knows what she is talking about :). Well I believe the magix is still there; It just took a different form Lol! With age comes serenity and comfort, and what can be more comfortable than kowing that the person you loved all your life is still by your side :).

I am filling up here :D

illuminati30
15-07-06, 18:26
Ah. Well, I meant God. :D

Oh you have spoken to her have you? Nice one mate.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 18:29
I'm glad we share our views to a certain point. It only seems to be the question who you should have sex with where we differ. In my opinion, it should just be consensual. It it's simply for fun, good. If it's because you love each other, great. In that case it's the most beautiful way of saying "I love you". I don't think I'd be very happy if I limited myself to people who I expect to share the rest of my life with (though, obviously, that's what I wish for when I'm in love).

Do you burn with lust mona? :vlol: Can we burn together? How about it? Opps i mean, will you marry me?

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 18:32
Do you burn with lust mona? :vlol: Can we burn together? How about it? Opps i mean, will you marry me?
I'm afraid that if I burned with you, I'd burn for real. ;)

illuminati30
15-07-06, 18:34
I'm afraid that if I burned with you, I'd burn for real. ;)

Loosens colar.... :whi:

Cat will tell you all about it :D

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 18:36
Loosens colar.... :whi:

Cat will tell you all about it :D
Now I've lost you... What does Cat have to do with it? :confused:

Melonie Tomb Raider
15-07-06, 18:36
I wish it were like that in most Christian churches - priests usually have to be celibate.


I'm not Catholic, I'm a non denominational Christian. There is no one in the church who is not allowed to wed, everyone is entitled to it. I think you're confusing my religious beliefs with that of another.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 18:38
Now I've lost you... What does Cat have to do with it? :confused:

He has not told you about our night of burning hot desire :whi:

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 18:38
I'm not Catholic, I'm a non denominational Christian. There is no one in the church who is not allowed to wed, everyone is entitled to it. I think you're confusing my religious beliefs with that of another.
I wasn't talking about you... :confused:

Lonely Istari
15-07-06, 18:40
Oh you have spoken to her have you? Nice one mate.

Do you honestly think that's waht I meant? It's in the Bible... mate.

Besides I do talk to him through prayer, and though I might not hear a verbal response, I see him answering prayers everyday.

Melonie Tomb Raider
15-07-06, 18:41
I wasn't talking about you... :confused:

Oh ok, I'm sorry.

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 18:41
He has not told you about our night of burning hot desire :whi:
Ah, that... :D

No, I think I wasn't clear enough. What I meant is that I'm currently not available. My significant other would kill me if I tried anything funny. I'm sure having fun with you would be pretty hot though. ;)

illuminati30
15-07-06, 18:41
Do you honestly think that's waht I meant? It's in the Bible... mate.

Besides I do talk to him through prayer, and though I might not hear a verbal response, I see him answering prayers everyday.

Fair enough :D

Many people claim to speak the word of God though :pi: I just wanna know how people can talk for someone else, half the time.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 18:42
Ah, that... :D

No, I think I wasn't clear enough. What I meant is that I'm currently not available. My significant other would kill me if I tried anything funny. I'm sure having fun with you would be pretty hot though. ;)

All the best ones are taken :D

Melonie Tomb Raider
15-07-06, 18:46
Besides I do talk to him through prayer, and though I might not hear a verbal response, I see him answering prayers everyday.

As do I. :) I can actually feel God's presence when I'm praying as well, and I know He's listening. Honestly, if I decided to start talking to myself, I would get the feeling that no one was there or listening to me. However, when I'm praying, I get a completely different feeling. I can actually feel that God is there with me. It's a supernatural experience that is hard to understand unless you've undergone it yourself.

The same way one would explain wind perhaps. You can't see it, but you can feel it. Some one without a sense of feeling might not understand, because they'd have to experience it for themselves. That's the best metaphor I can give right now. :p

Basically all I can say is that even though some one else doesn't know God is real, doesn't mean He isn't. I know first hand, I've had all the proof I'll ever need and more. You have to experience it for yourself to understand. Just listening to some one else talk about it isn't as convincing.

Lonely Istari
15-07-06, 18:48
Fair enough :D

Many people claim to speak the word of God though :pi: I just wanna know how people can talk for someone else, half the time.

True some people will try to say that God is speaking through them. Which I think can be true to certain points. The Word of God is what is written in the Bible. I think that God works through ministers and helps them preach.

You are right, though. People should not try to speak for God. They should let God speak through them. That is why I try to quote scripture, so that people don't think it's something I'm just pulling out of my bum and claiming that "God said so." :D

Lonely Istari
15-07-06, 18:52
I can actually feel God's presence when I'm praying as well, and I know He's listening. Honestly, if I decided to start talking to myself, I would get the feeling that no one was there or listening to me. However, when I'm praying, I get a completely different feeling. I can actually feel that God is there with me. It's a supernatural experience that is hard to understand unless you've undergone it yourself.


Same here. :) And I like how you put that. It really is a different feeling than just talking to yourself.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 18:55
True some people will try to say that God is speaking through them. Which I think can be true to certain points. The Word of God is what is written in the Bible. I think that God works through ministers and helps them preach.

You are right, though. People should not try to speak for God. They should let God speak through them. That is why I try to quote scripture, so that people don't think it's something I'm just pulling out of my bum and claiming that "God said so." :D

Cool, but how do we know that what is written there is the word of God? Do you consider the old testament to be the word of God as well? I just ask out of interest. Also, how do we know that bits of the bible have not been kept from us?

illuminati30
15-07-06, 18:55
Double post. This happened to Mona as well. I dont think i posted twice :pi:

Lonely Istari
15-07-06, 19:10
Cool, but how do we know that what is written there is the word of God?

That is a good question. A lot of the books in the Bible are actually letters from different people. And all of them were written down through humans of course. For example there are Letters from Paul to different churches such as the Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, and Colossians, so it could be arguable whether or not that is God's word. I feel that it is His word though, because God was using Paul to reach out to these corrupt churches to help them to get back on the right track.

The best way I can describe it is to look at things that were mere prophecies in the Bible before that have become reality today. For example, Israel re-uniting, and this business with the Euro... one currency.

Do you consider the old testament to be the word of God as well? I just ask out of interest.

I do believe the Old Testament to be the word of God. However it is the Old Testament, and it is the New Testament that we should live by. The Old Testament though still serves purpose by giving us examples and stories of Faith.

Also, how do we know that bits of the bible have not been kept from us?

There are different sects of Christianity that believe there are more books that what the majority of us use. I personally don't believe that God would mistakenly leave out something important like that.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 19:32
There are different sects of Christianity that believe there are more books that what the majority of us use. I personally don't believe that God would mistakenly leave out something important like that.

God might not. Organised religion may though. Have you read any of these books and why are they just showing up 2000 years later?

Just a question of interest? I actually dont know this, but who is said to have written the old testament, and how do they claim it to be the word of God? Plus do you believe these events took place, like Noah putting every animal in the world into a boat. I know some people think of the old testament as symbology rather than in a practical sense, so are we saying God made up these stories then ? :confused:

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 19:38
There are different sects of Christianity that believe there are more books that what the majority of us use. I personally don't believe that God would mistakenly leave out something important like that.
Maybe not god, but the church. There are some gospels (for example, the one of Thomas or the one of Mary) that the clerical leaders in the 2nd century didn't like (Thomas was very progressive and accepted women as equal parters and Mary Magdalene, well, was a woman) and therefore omitted when they put the Catholic version of the bible together. However, they partly survived in the texts of other authors. Nothing dramatically new like the alleged Gospel of Judas, but still very interesting. It's kind of sad to see that the Catholic church could be way more liberal if people were told the full story.

illuminati30
15-07-06, 19:47
Maybe not god, but the church. There are some gospels (for example, the one of Thomas or the one of Mary) that the clerical leaders in the 2nd century didn't like (Thomas was very progressive and accepted women as equal parters and Mary, well, was a woman) and therefore omitted when they put the Catholic version of the bible together. However, they partly survived in the texts of other authors. Nothing dramatically new like the alleged Gospel of Judas, but still very interesting. It's kind of sad to see that the Catholic church could be way more liberal if people were told the full story.

The Virgin Mary or Mary Magdalene?

They certainly didnt want us knowing that Jesus married the sacred prostitute.

Mona Sax
15-07-06, 19:50
Mary Magdalene. I don't think her marriage to Jesus is more than a theory, but a gospel by a prostitute was certainly more than the church could bear. :)

illuminati30
15-07-06, 19:52
The Virgin Mary or Mary Magdalene?

They certainly didnt want us knowing that Jesus married the sacred prostitute.

Stange to quote myself i know, But i think this is were it began. This is why we have no female super heros PirateRose lol

illuminati30
15-07-06, 19:55
Mary Magdalene. I don't think her marriage to Jesus is more than a theory, but a gospel by a prostitute was certainly more than the church could bear. :)

Well there time is up, and thats the greatest story NEVER told!

We see the spritiual side of the virgin Mary stripped of all sexuality, and the sexual side of Mary Magdalene stripped of spirituality, they must be joined and not polarized for a christian woman to feel whole.

Melonie Tomb Raider
15-07-06, 20:34
That is a good question. A lot of the books in the Bible are actually letters from different people. And all of them were written down through humans of course. For example there are Letters from Paul to different churches such as the Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, and Colossians, so it could be arguable whether or not that is God's word. I feel that it is His word though, because God was using Paul to reach out to these corrupt churches to help them to get back on the right track.

The best way I can describe it is to look at things that were mere prophecies in the Bible before that have become reality today. For example, Israel re-uniting, and this business with the Euro... one currency.


That's a very good way of putting it. :) Additionally I'd like to add something else that really stand out for me. Certain books of the Bible reiterate stories that other books of the Bible have discussed, I've especially noticed this in the new testament. The thing that makes this so amazing is the fact that these books were written by different people, yet the same topics were being discussed. There was no way that the different people writing those books could have had access to each other's writings, yet they still state the same things that work hand in hand with each other. That seems to be far more than just coincidence. God most definitely layed on their hearts what to write.

And to answer Illuminati's question, yet, I believe the Old Testament holds great relevance even to our society today. Not only does it contain a historical value, but still, some of the laws from the old testament should still take place today. Like the ten commandments for example.

I've only read the entire Bible one time so far, but I must say, I actually enjoyed the old testament more than the new testament. I think that the Bible in its entirety is crucial for Christians to study, both Old and New testament. I don't find any of the two more significant than the other, they both are vitally important.

Melonie Tomb Raider
15-07-06, 20:39
They certainly didnt want us knowing that Jesus married the sacred prostitute.

I disagree with that theory. Personally, I don't believe that any of the Bible was hidden from us. There are many different CHristian denominations, and over the numerous years, I highly doubt every single one of them would have hidden it all.

If churches were taking part of the Bible out, they'd have taken out a lot of what we have today (even though I still believe the Bible is entirely what it was before). There are many passages that aren't easy to read, and they can make you feel so guilty. If people were taking parts of the BIble out, why not those references as well? It doesn't seem to make sense to me.