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interstellardave
30-08-06, 12:28
Default Loss

Rob Fahey 13:51 25/08/2006


It's rare for a videogames show - be it E3, TGS or any other event - to have clear winners and losers from among the top publishers and platform holders. In general, there are positives and negatives on all sides. Take this year's E3 for example, where despite the strong media backlash against Sony's arrogant attitude in their press conference (not to mention their price point), the firm did succeed in showing off a surprisingly polished array of software both in playable and trailer form.

This year's Games Convention in Leipzig is an exception to this rule. There is a very clear winner, and a very clear loser, in the Leipziger Messe this week, as 150,000 consumers are currently finding out - and hundreds of press types have already discovered. The winner is Microsoft. The loser, by means of shameful default, is Sony - whose utter complacency has now reached the level where it couldn't even be bothered putting on a press conference or making any meaningful next-gen related announcement at Europe and the world's biggest videogames event.

Microsoft sealed its victory with a stunning PR coup in the closing moments of its press conference on Wednesday. The firm has become very adept at making all the right noises in front of the world's press ever since the somewhat embarrassing "three amigos" conference at E3 2005, and this week's event was no exception. Slick and consistently on-message, the conference took a demonstrative approach to new software and devices rather than making wild promises - and crucially, it focused on the products rather than the ego or public profile of the speakers themselves.

The one moment of pure, unashamed PR spin came at the end. "Xbox 360 owns football," Chris Lewis told the audience, having just revealed that Pro Evolution Soccer and FIFA are both going to be "next-gen exclusive" to the Xbox 360 for 12 months. The US media seems to have largely missed the significance of this announcement; for the benefit of our American readers, imagine if Microsoft had announced casually that every American Football game on the market is locked into Xbox 360 for 12 months. Except with soccer - a game that other countries actually care about, and one which has a particularly massive mindshare in Europe, Asia and South America.

The reality of the situation is, of course, not quite so dramatic. Sports gamers by and large tend towards the casual end of the spectrum, and there is probably minimal cross-over between the demographic which wants a new FIFA game and the demographic which is prepared to pay over 400 pounds, brave whatever labyrinthine pre-order scheme Sony devises, and probably queue up in the rain at midnight on the launch day in mid-November. By next Christmas, the PS3 will have both top football franchises running happily on its console, which is what really matters - and for this year, most sports fans will probably be happy to simply pick up the latest FIFA and PES iterations on their PS2 or PSP.

Despite this, the PR victory scored by Microsoft here cannot be underestimated. The power of the company's spin machine continues to leave the rest of the games industry in awe even after an entire console generation of experience - and the "Xbox 360: Home of Football" line will be promoted so heavily in the coming months that not a single gamer won't be aware of Microsoft's sporting coup. It won't stop the PS3 from selling out this Christmas - nothing short of divine intervension could do that - but it will certainly win headlines, and may well give pause for thought to many consumers considering holding off an Xbox 360 purchase in favour of a PS3 in the new year.

So, faced with this major shot over its bows, how did the Sony behemoth respond?

It didn't, is the short answer. There was no Sony conference in Leipzig this week, and the only announcement to emerge was a desultory ten pound price cut to the PlayStation 2, a console which was already being unofficially discounted by many retailers anyway. Certainly, there's an argument that Sony should save itself for the inevitable PS3 blitz the Tokyo Game Show in a few weeks' time, but quite frankly, given the intense negativity surrounding both the company and its forthcoming console in the specialist media - much of which is leaking over into the mainstream press as well - it should be using every opportunity available to it to present PS3 in a positive light.

Consider this: Leipzig was an opportunity for Sony to show off software a full three months closer to completion than its E3 demos, a chance to let people get their hands on the new motion-sensitive controller for PS3 and experience it for themselves, and a chance to talk about its launch software line-up and assuage fears of a PS2-style software drought in the early months of the system's lifespan. It would have given the company the ability to bring European consumers - typically not a race of early adopters - on board with the PS3 before serious retail pre-orders kick off.

Instead, it did none of these things. There is no playable PS3 code in Leipzig, not even the recycled E3 demos which many other companies have wheeled out to the public here. Instead, there is a pretentious booth where bored consumers can lounge around and peer at rolling demos which they already saw on the Internet several months ago. Sony's presence here feels very much like that of a company which is only here because it feels like it has to be (which is true - it really does have to be), and once again its approach to PS3 feels like it's only releasing a next-gen console because it absolutely has to.

That attitude was acceptable a year ago when the firm could legitimately gripe that Microsoft was forcing its hand. Three months from the launch of the PS3, Sony needs to start bringing people on board, or risk the Xbox 360 realising stellar sales while the PS3 is still being held back from mainstream consumers by launch demand and limited numbers. At Leipzig this week, the firm made no new friends - and regardless of the strength of its brand or the installed base of PS2, both of which are indisputably key factors in the next-gen battle, Sony still needs friends far more than either of its rivals do at the moment.

http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=19300

Dingaling
30-08-06, 15:42
Wait, because Sony focused on PS2 more than PS3 they're doing something wrong? What? That makes no sense. For once they haven't said anything to put themselves in a worse light with the PS3 and they still get put down? I say again: What? Don't say anything you get put down, do say something you get put down or called arrogant (which they were a bit more than slightly at E3 but still). Odd.

interstellardave
30-08-06, 15:46
You don't think the absence of a PS3 push (a mere 3 months before launch) isn't a major mistake? And this article doesn't mention a PS2 focus either, they're saying Sony did and said very little that was positive in general--while their major competitor wowed people! Something's fishy about all this and I don't think it's the media, I think it's Sony themselves. I'd like to be a fly on the wall at Sony HQ... are they truly in trouble?

Lara's Boy
30-08-06, 15:52
You don't think the absence of a PS3 push (a mere 3 months before launch) isn't a major mistake? And this article doesn't mention a PS2 focus either, they're saying Sony did and said very little that was positive in general--while their major competitor wowed people! Something's fishy about all this and I don't think it's the media, I think it's Sony themselves. I'd like to be a fly on the wall at Sony HQ... are they truly in trouble?

If they aren't now, I have a feeling they will be. It seems that everything that they have done (or in this case, haven't done) seems to be the wrong step. I know I am no longer a Sony only fan, and I am sure others are feeling the same way.

K.J
30-08-06, 15:58
Tokyo Game Show 22. September.




Not saying more...;)

interstellardave
30-08-06, 16:01
Tokyo Game Show 22. September.




Not saying more...;)

Maybe... but then they shouldn't even show up at other shows if they're going to "phone it in". They're displaying the arrogance that they've so often been accused of IMO.

K.J
30-08-06, 16:05
Maybe... but then they shouldn't even show up at other shows if they're going to "phone it in". They're displaying the arrogance that they've so often been accused of IMO.

I totally agree with you mate:tmb: I don't like Sony either, hope they get problems selling PS3 in the first months, because of the high price.
I don't see ordinary people buying a PS3 this year if it's gonna cost 400$ ++.

But on TGS we will hopefully get some more news around Wiis release date:)

Dingaling
30-08-06, 16:08
You don't think the absence of a PS3 push (a mere 3 months before launch) isn't a major mistake?

Major mistake, not really. It'd be nice to have some more news about the PS3 at Leipzig but it's not a necessity. To be honest hearing the same stuff about a console to me is quite boring:

"We have Xbox Live, it's amazing!" Yes, that's swell, anything else?
"Great graphics and pretty games and some of them have great gameplay as opposed to okay gameplay!" Uh huh... anything else?
"We have Xbox Live, it's amazing!" ...

"We have a motion sensing controller!" Uh huh. Other secrets?
"We have a motion sensing controller, it has a built-in microphone." Really?
"Yes, it senses motion!" OMG, so do I! *Waves hand about* I'm sensing my motion!

"We have pretty graphics and new online things!" Right...
"And... a tilting controller!" Yes...
"With more best selling sequels and pretty graphics and..." Okay...

The only company that can truly say anything new right now is Microsoft but even then the 360 doesn't truly interest me. Unless the other companies have some dirty little secret hidden up their sleeves (hopefully not by the All American Rejects).

And this article doesn't mention a PS2 focus either,

My mistake. It's just other sites have mentioned some PS2 and PSP news so I presumed Sony were focusing their attention on the PS2 and PSP more. :)

they're saying Sony did and said very little that was positive in general--while their major competitor wowed people!

But it doesn't say they did anything negative - only to the disliking of the author. They did nothing to make themselves even worse right now because they never really said anything. Right now as soon as Sony say anything they manage to get put down. By not saying anything they can't get worse and they can't get better and for Sony that's the best thing right now because trying to sound positive about their console (Like any console manaufacturer) they always end up sounding arrogant.

Something's fishy about all this and I don't think it's the media, I think it's Sony themselves. I'd like to be a fly on the wall at Sony HQ... are they truly in trouble?

In terms of profit and whatnot? Nah, they're fine. Big company selling TVs, phones, consoles, games... other things. Console only wise? PS3 maybe but their PSP and PS2 division are still fine. PSP has gotten better sales (in terms of sales at least) and PS2 is pretty much the same as always due to it being pretty old.

They probably are saving any last positive thing for the PS3 for the Tokyo Game Show. Since it's in Japan it makes sense (because Sony are a Japanese company).

interstellardave
30-08-06, 16:17
You make some well-reasoned statements, Dingaling. :tmb:

I still have to agree with the article that Sony is really battling a lot of negative publicity about the PS3 and for them not to at least have some playable demos at the show--just to let the product speak for itself--is mystifying. Blu Ray has also not shown well against HD-DVD; most specialist websites are finding HD-DVD to be a much better choice coming out of the blocks; Blu Ray just isn't getting off the ground very well, and it's a major part of Sonys' plans for success.

I have always liked Sony, but I don't like what they've done so far with Blu Ray and the PS3, that's all. I think they're really cutting off a major portion of their fanbase with their decisions...

K.J
30-08-06, 16:19
Interesting article imo

http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/24/huge-playstation-3-shortages-predicted-sony-stock-sinks/

edit: Is it true that the PS3 controller will not include Dualshock?

Dingaling
30-08-06, 16:29
You make some well-reasoned statements, Dingaling. :tmb:

That has just made my day. I'm gonna be on a high all day, LoL. If I could kiss and hug you right now, by Xena I would :D

I still have to agree with the article that Sony is really battling a lot of negative publicity about the PS3 and for them not to at least have some playable demos at the show--just to let the product speak for itself--is mystifying. Blu Ray has also not shown well against HD-DVD; most specialist websites are finding HD-DVD to be a much better choice coming out of the blocks; Blu Ray just isn't getting off the ground very well, and it's a major part of Sonys' plans for success.

Maybe Sony are just trying to get people to ask: "Why did they not show anything?" To make people think something is wrong so they can bounce back and say: "I told you so!" (In a "The PS3 is fantastic" way). Mystifying is a pretty good choice of word there, even with my amazing brain (:D) I can't think of any proper reason other than the upcoming TGS and they couldn't be bothered with any more bad publicity even if they had a good showing.

As for Blu-Ray there was one article that stated that they didn't try their best with moving to Blu-Ray. For games this doesn't mean anything because it's the PS3 that does all the graphics, AI and so on, the Blu-Ray Disc just holds the data (and a recent article has Resistance: Fall of Man coming in at 22GB!!!). For films it's pretty bad tho'.

I have always liked Sony, but I don't like what they've done so far with Blu Ray and the PS3, that's all. I think they're really cutting off a major portion of their fanbase with their decisions...

The high cost due because of Blu-Ray is very bad but what I said above about Resistance shows that it may have been a very good idea if the games are that large. A lot of companies must dislike multiple discs because they're rarely seen for consoles so Blu-Ray may be good if it lets them fit all that data onto one disc.

EDIT: K.J. - It's true that rumble most likely will not be in official PS3 controllers. Kaz Hirai has recently said that shortages aren't expected but like anything, that's not 100% certain.

UNDERTAKER
30-08-06, 16:33
I feel it's a case of arrogance. Sony feels they can win the next gen war based on the 'PlayStation' brand only.

It does not look good for Sony. The reasons for purchasing a PS3 over a 360 are getting weaker all the time.

interstellardave
30-08-06, 16:34
Resistance: Fall Of Man is the one game that I'll regret not being able to play right away (because I know I will not have a PS3 until probably the holiday 2007 season). Resistance should be out at launch or soon thereafter, so that will bother me. Insomniac is an incredible developer and having them in their corner is a big boon for Sony--as is having Naughty Dog. They can make awesome games on any system, but they'll only be making them on the PS3 now. BIG points in Sonys favor, really. That would probably be the one thing that will keep them going even if they get off to a slow start--that and a price cut!

UNDERTAKER
30-08-06, 16:36
The high cost due because of Blu-Ray is very bad but what I said above about Resistance shows that it may have been a very good idea if the games are that large. .


I guarantee that the game will be no longer than a standard PS2 or Xbox shooter. Some may say that the graphics need all that space...but it looks no better than Gears of War and that comes on a standard DVD...

interstellardave
30-08-06, 16:42
I guarantee that the game will be no longer than a standard PS2 or Xbox shooter. Some may say that the graphics need all that space...but it looks no better than Gears of War and that comes on a standard DVD...

Resistance might be uncompressed, although you're right Gears Of War is astounding looking even if it's compressed to fit on a regular DVD.

Melonie Tomb Raider
30-08-06, 17:14
We'll see plenty of the PS3 at TGS. ;)

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6156142/index.html?tag=topslot;action;1&cpage=0#comments

Dingaling
30-08-06, 17:20
I guarantee that the game will be no longer than a standard PS2 or Xbox shooter. Some may say that the graphics need all that space...but it looks no better than Gears of War and that comes on a standard DVD...

I never said it'd be long, just large :p As for graphics, it's amazing that a launch game looks on par with a second-year title.

Here's some news stating that other PS3 titles were over 20GB in size: "He also revealed that several PS3 titles were already over 20GB in size, seemingly justifying the Blu-ray choice. " Source: http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=13641

Have to agree with iDave, Insomniac and Naughty Dog consistently make some great games :)

UNDERTAKER
30-08-06, 17:51
I never said it'd be long, just large :p As for graphics, it's amazing that a launch game looks on par with a second-year title.


I never said it looked on par... :p

interstellardave
30-08-06, 17:54
I never said it looked on par... :p

LOL... good one! I have to agree, Gears Of War is the best-looking game in development right now (at least for any console). That's what industry folks are saying too.

Dingaling
30-08-06, 17:56
I never said it looked on par... :p

No, that's cos I said it, LoL :p Touché UT :D

EDIT: I seen a screen of GOW a while ago with a blue-ish background and a blue demon thing - does anyone remember that and able to post it? T'was absolutely gorgeous. It's a mighty fine looking game.

UNDERTAKER
30-08-06, 17:57
:D :wve:

K.J
30-08-06, 17:58
How many launch games for PS3 are for PS3 only?

Btw: From what we can gather, both FIFA 07 and Pro Evolution Soccer 6 will only be available on the Xbox 360 - a major blow for Sony, given the vast quantities both series have shifted on Playstation systems previously.

http://www.ferrago.com/story/8125

Good news:)

interstellardave
30-08-06, 18:02
How many launch games for PS3 are for PS3 only?

Btw: From what we can gather, both FIFA 07 and Pro Evolution Soccer 6 will only be available on the Xbox 360 - a major blow for Sony, given the vast quantities both series have shifted on Playstation systems previously.

http://www.ferrago.com/story/8125

Good news:)

Yep, that major coup is mentioned in the story I posted this topic about! Incredible, really. I imagine there are many big soccer fans that will purchase a 360 to play those games, just like many Wrestling fans will do to play Smackdown vrs Raw 2007. All major losses for Sonys' PS3. The holiday season will be mighty interesting...

Dingaling
30-08-06, 18:05
About half of the launch games are exclusives I think.

UNDERTAKER
30-08-06, 18:08
About half of the launch games are exclusives I think.

But many of them aren't very good...

Dingaling
30-08-06, 18:10
You've played them? (He asks in a "OMG" voice and not a "How do you know, you haven't played them yet" voice.)

EDIT: After plain clicking on the smilies button, he found the smilie he wanted to use: :yik:

K.J
30-08-06, 18:17
Here is an example for you: Call of Duty 3+ PS3 = 500$*
Call of Duty 3+ 360 = 350$*

Which one would you choose? Paying 500 or 350$?

I don't think normal people will notice the differences in graphics between the two versions, and then they probably will choose the cheapest consol



*The prices I operate with are not the real prices.

K.J
30-08-06, 18:17
Sorry for dobbelpost:( i'm at a laptop, please remove this post if possible:(

interstellardave
30-08-06, 18:21
Here is an example for you: Call of Duty 3+ PS3 = 500$*
Call of Duty 3+ 360 = 350$*

Which one would you choose? Paying 500 or 350$?

I don't think normal people will notice the differences in graphics between the two versions, and then they probably will choose the cheapest consol



*The prices I operate with are not the real prices.


The PS3 + Call of Duty 3 would be $560.00 or $660.00 depending, and the 360 + Call of Duty 3 would be $360.00 or $460.00 depending... each package is $200.00 in difference.

K.J
30-08-06, 18:24
The PS3 + Call of Duty 3 would be $560.00 or $660.00 depending, and the 360 + Call of Duty 3 would be $360.00 or $460.00 depending... each package is $200.00 in difference.

200$ is a big difference for normal people, why does Sony think they can sell the PS3 for the price of a 360 and a Wii.

Dingaling
30-08-06, 18:26
It depends on the advertising of the console as well. Based on price alone I'd go with the 360 +Call of Duty.

The PS3 is higher due to Blu-Ray (a Blu-Ray player alone is at least $800) incorporated into it's design. The PS3 is severly underpriced, but by normal standards, it is very expensive.

interstellardave
30-08-06, 18:31
200$ is a big difference for normal people, why does Sony think they can sell the PS3 for the price of a 360 and a Wii.

They are pushing Blu-Ray... they're saying "yes it's more expensive, but you're getting a Blu-Ray player". And I've said all along, I don't think people are going to buy into that logic--Blu-Ray isn't even close to being established as the format of the future for movies. I forsee a lot of shoppers--just regular parents wanting to get the PS3 this holiday season--and they go into the store and they'll see that it's not in stock, and then they'll see the price... and they'll think, "over here this system looks really nice, it's a lot cheaper, and look at all these games!" I think a lot of 360's will sell that way... and Wii's will sell to a lot of current 360 owners in addition to the hardcore Nintendo fans.

Tombreaper
30-08-06, 20:13
200$ is a big difference for normal people, why does Sony think they can sell the PS3 for the price of a 360 and a Wii.

You can also buy the 499E version, it only has a smaller HDD (20GB)
, and for internet you need a cable instead of wireless.
For the 100E extra compared to xb360, you'll get a futureproof gamesconsole, the xb360 is less futureproof, now that it is evident developers will choose Blu-ray, because of the DVD limitations.
An add-onn for the xb360 is planned, and will cost about 200E, but only for watching HD quality movies.
HD-DVD games are still not confirmed yet, and will also force you to buy an expensive add-on.
A new HD-DVD xb360 is very unlikely.

Dingaling
30-08-06, 20:15
Microsoft has confirmed there are no plans to release any HD-DVD games so the $200 extra for the HD-DVD Drive is optional.

interstellardave
31-08-06, 11:12
You can also buy the 499E version, it only has a smaller HDD (20GB)
, and for internet you need a cable instead of wireless.
For the 100E extra compared to xb360, you'll get a futureproof gamesconsole, the xb360 is less futureproof, now that it is evident developers will choose Blu-ray, because of the DVD limitations.
An add-onn for the xb360 is planned, and will cost about 200E, but only for watching HD quality movies.
HD-DVD games are still not confirmed yet, and will also force you to buy an expensive add-on.
A new HD-DVD xb360 is very unlikely.

It is hardly evident the Blu-Ray is the choice for the future... every article I've seen has given the clear edge to HD-DVD right now. That's for what they're bringing to the table right now... Blu-Ray is still just a "promise"... They apparently still can't get the 50 gig Blu-Ray disc to work at all... and they've been working on this project since DVD first took hold!

Tombreaper
31-08-06, 16:34
It is hardly evident the Blu-Ray is the choice for the future... every article I've seen has given the clear edge to HD-DVD right now. That's for what they're bringing to the table right now... Blu-Ray is still just a "promise"... They apparently still can't get the 50 gig Blu-Ray disc to work at all... and they've been working on this project since DVD first took hold!

Blu-ray is supported by more than 170 leading hardware and software manufacturers, including the leading innovators in the CE and IT industries.
That's support Toshiba & MS can only dream of.

The 50GB dual-layer Blu-ray Disc:
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/08-16-2006/0004417195&EDATE=

interstellardave
31-08-06, 16:38
Blu-ray is supported by more than 170 leading hardware and software manufacturers, including the leading innovators in the CE and IT industries.
That's support Toshiba & MS can only dream of.

The 50GB dual-layer Blu-ray Disc:
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/08-16-2006/0004417195&EDATE=

Yeah, but from what I've heard, the current players won't play the 50 gig disc. And the 50 gig disc costs $48.00!!! Too much, too soon. The market will decide, however.

interstellardave
31-08-06, 16:39
http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-camp-cant-get-50gb-titles-to-work/

Most new technologies have some teething problems as the early kinks are worked out, but it seems like the Blu-ray camp is experiencing more than its fair share of growing pains -- first the delays, then news that the supposed format-savior PS3 might price itself right out of the market, and finally the revelation that first-gen BD-P1000's were shipping with a picture-degrading chip. Well now it appears that there's even more bad news for Sony's pride and joy, as The Digital Bits' Bill Hunt is confirming what many people already suspected after reading their P1000 manuals: the $1,000 player, as currently configured, will be unable to support movies on upcoming 50GB discs. Hunt cites multiple anonymous industry sources in reporting that Samsung is still having problems getting 50GB discs to work on its machines -- production titles weren't even available to test before the players launched -- and that both Sony and Pioneer are experiencing the same issues with their upcoming products. Luckily for current P1000 owners, it seems that this incompatibility is of the type that will eventually be solved by a firmware upgrade, but until that time, movie studios have been forced to delay longer titles like Lawrence of Arabia and Black Hawk Down -- no doubt frustrating some consumers. With so much on the line here, it's clear that this issue will be resolved sooner or later; however, with the HD DVD camp already offering cheaper (and more) hardware, a larger media selection, and garnering better initial reviews than Blu-ray, it's not clear how much time is left before the so-called format war begins leaning decidedly in HD DVD's favor.

Tombreaper
31-08-06, 16:53
http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-camp-cant-get-50gb-titles-to-work/

Most new technologies have some teething problems as the early kinks are worked out, but it seems like the Blu-ray camp is experiencing more than its fair share of growing pains -- first the delays, then news that the supposed format-savior PS3 might price itself right out of the market, and finally the revelation that first-gen BD-P1000's were shipping with a picture-degrading chip. Well now it appears that there's even more bad news for Sony's pride and joy, as The Digital Bits' Bill Hunt is confirming what many people already suspected after reading their P1000 manuals: the $1,000 player, as currently configured, will be unable to support movies on upcoming 50GB discs. Hunt cites multiple anonymous industry sources in reporting that Samsung is still having problems getting 50GB discs to work on its machines -- production titles weren't even available to test before the players launched -- and that both Sony and Pioneer are experiencing the same issues with their upcoming products. Luckily for current P1000 owners, it seems that this incompatibility is of the type that will eventually be solved by a firmware upgrade, but until that time, movie studios have been forced to delay longer titles like Lawrence of Arabia and Black Hawk Down -- no doubt frustrating some consumers. With so much on the line here, it's clear that this issue will be resolved sooner or later; however, with the HD DVD camp already offering cheaper (and more) hardware, a larger media selection, and garnering better initial reviews than Blu-ray, it's not clear how much time is left before the so-called format war begins leaning decidedly in HD DVD's favor.


There are so many rumours on the net, it's too hard to make any point out of it.
I restrict myself by joining only 2 major forums, and from there, I follow the countless links, most of them only 'rumour controlled'

interstellardave
31-08-06, 17:04
There are so many rumours on the net, it's too hard to make any point out of it.
I restrict myself by joining only 2 major forums, and from there, I follow the countless links, most of them only 'rumour controlled'

All I'm saying is that Blu-Ray isn't getting off to the great start that people have predicted. And Sony is holding gamers hostage in an attempt to make the format popular. Of course the average person doesn't have an HD-DVD player yet either. Personally, I'm not taking any sides, really, I'm just taking in what I hear about the formats for now--and Blu-Ray reality is dimmer right now than the promises made about it (but, granted, those promises may come true). My money will be plonked down on the winner... when that becomes clear. I will NOT be caught with a player and a bunch of movies for a dead format a year or so from now! ;)

Dingaling
31-08-06, 17:31
For games - Blu-Ray is a godsend. It holds 25GBs of data on one disc. I know that companies can release multiple disc games but the number of companies - and the number of games - that actually release multiple disced games are very very few. I have no idea why but some games could use that extra space (for example TRL - they said they took out the 3rd South American level because it was set in SA (Yes, odd, I know) but that it gave them extra space for Kazakhstan, Blu-Ray would have let them have both levels). The lack of multiple disced games may be due to development costs as it probably costs quite a fortune to buy even more discs for all those other parts so they decide to cut down on levels.

Blu-Ray for films has got off to a shaky start, there's no doubt about that. It could however improve greatly soon. There's a few feature of Blu-Ray that companies have not taken advantage of yet and that are still unknown to a lot of people. Blu-Ray can get firmware upgrades (like the PSP and PS3) and it (forgive my bad explanation on this I'll try and get a better one in a few minutes) can access the internet and interact with the films at the same time. Plus there's another feature I think I'm missing. Lemme go check and I'll edit in a few minutes.

Another good point for Blu-Ray is the backing of the many many companies. Nearly every major film company has support for Blu-Ray instead of DVD.

And I'll re-say what I've said a few times before:

Sony own many blockbuster titles/film companies and music divisions. That generally means that a lot of people's favourite films (or films they really want to see in HD glory) they will not be able to see on HD-DVD (the Spiderman films for example). The same for the music. Sony own a lot of artists, especially the ones people really like (I think Michael Jackson is one, right?). So HD music videos/live concerts of those artists will be Blu-Ray only. As we all know, the format we buy can be based soley on our favourite film/artist/games (I know a lot of people bought a PS2 only to play Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Angel of Darkness).

Basically it's what makes games like Buzz! and Singstar a whole lot more easier to make for Sony than any other company because they probably don't have to pay that big a licence fee for the songs on those games because they already own them.

Also by the time HD-DVD players become truly affordable (the HD-DVD add-on for X360 owners won't do much good to people without X360s) Sony will have sold roughly 3 million Blu-Ray players in the form of PS3s.

Now, I'm off to check those not very well known features of Blu-Ray up.

EDIT: Apparently you can download new features, trailers and whatnot with Blu-Ray via an internet connection:

"1.11 Will Blu-ray require an Internet connection?
No, you will not need an Internet connection for basic playback of Blu-ray movies. The Internet connection will only be needed for value-added features such as downloading new extras, watching recent movie trailers, web browsing, etc. It will also be required to authorize managed copies of Blu-ray movies that can be transferred over a home network."

There is something else I think but I can't quite remember what it is - it's possibly my imagination tho'.

Tombreaper
31-08-06, 17:38
For games - Blu-Ray is a godsend. It holds 25GBs of data on one disc. I know that companies can release multiple disc games but the number of companies - and the number of games - that actually release multiple disced games are very very few. I have no idea why but some games could use that extra space (for example TRL - they said they took out the 3rd South American level because it was set in SA (Yes, odd, I know) but that it gave them extra space for Kazakhstan, Blu-Ray would have let them have both levels). The lack of multiple disced games may be due to development costs as it probably costs quite a fortune to buy even more discs for all those other parts so they decide to cut down on levels.

Blu-Ray for films has got off to a shaky start, there's no doubt about that. It could however improve greatly soon. There's a few feature of Blu-Ray that companies have not taken advantage of yet and that are still unknown to a lot of people. Blu-Ray can get firmware upgrades (like the PSP and PS3) and it (forgive my bad explanation on this I'll try and get a better one in a few minutes) can access the internet and interact with the films at the same time. Plus there's another feature I think I'm missing. Lemme go check and I'll edit in a few minutes.

Another good point for Blu-Ray is the backing of the many many companies. Nearly every major film company has support for Blu-Ray instead of DVD.

And I'll re-say what I've said a few times before:

Sony own many blockbuster titles/film companies and music divisions. That generally means that a lot of people's favourite films (or films they really want to see in HD glory) they will not be able to see on HD-DVD (the Spiderman films for example). The same for the music. Sony own a lot of artists, especially the ones people really like (I think Michael Jackson is one, right?). So HD music videos/live concerts of those artists will be Blu-Ray only. As we all know, the format we buy can be based soley on our favourite film/artist/games (I know a lot of people bought a PS2 only to play Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Angel of Darkness).

Also by the time HD-DVD players become truly affordable (the HD-DVD add-on for X360 owners won't do much good to people without X360s) Sony will have sold roughly 3 million Blu-Ray players in the form of PS3s.

Now, I'm off to check those not very well known features of Blu-Ray up.

Looks like you join an official forum too.

interstellardave
31-08-06, 17:55
Everything you said, Dingaling, could quite probably be very true, and Blu-Ray winds up the winner. As I've said, it's fine by me 'cause I'll purchase whichever one becomes standard. I just don't like Sony using the PS3 as a Trojan Horse for the format... it will hurt them in the videogame market I assure you. It's too expensive right now. But if they win the movie format wars it's all good for them anyway.

The only thing I would bet a whole load of money on is this: The PS3 may let you play Blu-Ray movies, but no-one who is serious about the format for movies will wind up using it as such. The PS3 is a Blu-Ray Trojan Horse of sorts, but it will probably be as useful for actually being your "main Blu-Ray player" as the PS2 is for DVDS... not very useful! When/if I buy a Blu-Ray player I'm going to buy a nice stand-alone model that will be far better than the drive in the PS3.

BlackGrey
31-08-06, 21:26
Xbox 360 for me :) Sony have finally lost thier minds, like many acclaimed stars in thier time.

Melonie Tomb Raider
01-09-06, 03:40
Sony have finally lost thier minds, like many acclaimed stars in thier time.

Kind of early to eb saying that, don't you think?

Just wait for release, then we'll see. ;)

Cochrane
01-09-06, 07:28
I think it is not too early to say that Sony is taking quite a big risk with it's PS3. The Cell processor, the Blue Ray drive, all these things are experimental at best and Sony wants to make them the cornerstone of it's empire, basically. I'd be very surprised if we didn't see some nasty surprises at the start of PS3, because I doubt that Sony will really be able to get this all work as good as possible in time. I also believe that Sony will be able to sort out any start problems it has, but I would not expect any good press for Sony until spring 2007.

Samsdad
01-09-06, 13:32
Just looking at it from an economics perspective Sony is taking a very risky step. At launch, to buy the PS3, an extra controler, and two games and you are looking at $600.00 to $800.00. That is a big gulp. The 360 is also hitting its stride for new game releases just about the time of the PS3 launch. It is going to be very interesting times.