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Greenkey2
30-08-06, 14:31
Call for fertility ban for obese: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5296200.stm


With recent calls to ban obese women from getting fertility treatment in the UK, I thought I'd start a thread for your views on IVF (In-Vitro Fertilisation) and other forms of fertility treatment.




My own personal view is that IVF is a classic case of 'we can therefore we don't necesssarily should'. There is no doubt that it is a miracle of medicine, but for me it only panders to the "I Want Therefore I Get" society we live in.

Becoming a parent is a wonderful thing, but it is not a right - it is a privilege. How many thousands of unwanted pregancies are there worldwide? How many children have been abandoned in care; forced from one centre to the next because not enough people are willing to foster or adopt?

And really, how important is having a child? For many it is literally a life-or-death obsession; have a glance at how much infertile couples are prepared to pay to undergo multiple (failed) IVF attempts. I wonder how many homeless or unwanted children that money could foster for a year.

Sometimes we are told things we don't necessarily want to hear. "You cannot concieve" is probably high on that list - but does that mean that we should repeatedly throw a tantrum at Mother Nature until we get our own way?

Jake Croft
30-08-06, 14:32
I think IVF should only be granted in certain circumstances.

Gomes
30-08-06, 14:38
Eugenics has started and people support it. Nice.

Mother Nature gives people no messages. We have the right and the duty to change the world for the better and that includes to change people's biology. Your logic of "poor abandoned" children need the money more, would also apply for couples wanting to concieve naturally. Can you imagine if people stopped having their own children to take care of the undesired children of others? Can you imagine parent not giving toys to their own children to feed all the starving children in the world?

madderakka
30-08-06, 14:51
I am for IVF, I think it has helped many good people become parents. And I think it's wrong for them to say obese women can't take the treatment they offer to others:: if you are going to preclude obese women, why not smokers? smoking reduces your fertility as does being underweight. What about women who don't eat a balanced diet and stand on their heads after sex while they're at it.

And how exactly is having a child a privelege? Almost anyone over the age of 12 can procreate.

Natla'd
30-08-06, 14:59
Personally, I would much rather adopt that have IVF if I was infertile - hell, I plan to adopt my children even if I'm fully-functional in that department - but I know not everybody feels like that. Some people love the idea of having a small version of themselves and their partner, and might not be able to feel the same love towards an adopted child. They can't help their feelings, can they? And the child may very well grow up feeling unwanted.

Also, I don't think finding out that they cannot concieve naturally should be the be all and end all for a couple trying for a biological baby. Kind of like how a person who has developed something like cancer shouldn't be put off treating it.

Ward Dragon
30-08-06, 15:43
I'd say in general that if a woman is too unhealthy to safely have a baby, then she's too unhealthy. Instead of giving fertility treatments to someone that could potentially die from it, doctors should focus on getting the woman healthy and then she can get fertility treatments if she wants to because it's no longer as dangerous for her to do so. (I don't really understand the BMI thing, but I assume that by obese, they mean so overweight that it's a health problem).

Ah, there it is:

"If it's a proven fact that it's very difficult to get pregnant when you're overweight, then the logical cure for that kind of infertility is to encourage the patient to lose weight."

madderakka
30-08-06, 15:48
But my point was that other things (smoking, being underweight etc) also make it harder to get pregnant and put the mother and child's health at risk but they're only targeting one group. It's unfair

Spitfire
30-08-06, 15:50
IVF, I can't really say it's a bad thing and I'm not going to put down people who desperately strive to have their own child. It's a natural reaction. Would you like a child that isn't yours or have one of your own flesh and blood. This isn't to say there aren't people around the world who are like saints adopting 2 to 5 kids and taking care of them to give them a better chance at life. It's just i know if i heard my wife couldn't have children i wouldn't feel the same. I would want to try IVF for her and me and the sake of having our own child.

Sure there are alot of unwanted pregnancies but hey, thats going to happen regardless. We live in a world with too many irresponsable people.

Ward Dragon
30-08-06, 15:55
But my point was that other things (smoking, being underweight etc) also make it harder to get pregnant and put the mother and child's health at risk but they're only targeting one group. It's unfair

Ah, well those things should be treated before getting IVF too. I really have no idea of the relative risks, but it seems to me that if a woman has any condition that would make IVF more dangerous and that condition is treatable, then it should be dealt with first before she gets IVF. That way she's healthier, the baby will probably be healthier, and less IVF would probably be required.

Spitfire
30-08-06, 16:05
Obesity is being targeted because alot more people are heavily overweight than deathly skinny.

VonCroy360
30-08-06, 16:41
I'm for it.

I don't see a problem in it, and if some day I wanted a child, and me or my partner couldn't have it, why not?

Neteru
30-08-06, 18:52
There is no doubt that it is a miracle of medicine, but for me it only panders to the "I Want Therefore I Get" society we live in.I quite agree. There are far too many orphans in this world, and would be parents should give greater focus to such an act as adobption, rather than IVF. I also happen to think that such treatment goes no way toward combating what I view as a psychological problem some women have in that there is a conception (no pun intended) in the minds of many a woman that in order for them to be a woman, they must bear children. Utter nonsense.

Greenkey2
30-08-06, 20:12
If a doctor told me (or me and my partner/husband) that I was unable to have children naturally, I would consider it nature's way of saying that my life lies in a different direction to having a family. Does that mean that my life is somehow less meaningful? I don't think it does.


As to the privilege issue, I believe becoming a parent and raising a family is a privilege. Not 'for-the-chosen-few' type of privilege (images of a 1984-type society); but because it is a miracle of nature taing place between you and your partner and I would feel 'privileged' to be allowed to experience it. I feel privileged to enjoy the natural world and the people around me.

jackles
30-08-06, 20:20
If a doctor told me (or me and my partner/husband) that I was unable to have children naturally, I would consider it nature's way of saying that my life lies in a different direction to having a family. Does that mean that my life is somehow less meaningful? I don't think it does.


As to the privilege issue, I believe becoming a parent and raising a family is a privilege. Not 'for-the-chosen-few' type of privilege (images of a 1984-type society); but because it is a miracle of nature taing place between you and your partner and I would feel 'privileged' to be allowed to experience it. I feel privileged to enjoy the natural world and the people around me.


I know exactly where you are coming from with this. Everyone assumes they will have children if and when they want them and life isn't like that. Women miscarry, children are still born, there is a declining sperm count. Years ago we had no choice but to accept what we got. Now there is a feeling of I will have this...as long as money can pay. Should we be tying up the nhs for women to have babies when we might need money say for cancer drugs that are being denied people as they are too expensive?

There is also the fact that if people pay for IVF then its a class issue, only those with enough money can afford children no matter what.

I cannot have anymore children and I have had to accept that fact.
:(

Pipolinne
30-08-06, 22:31
I'm 100% pro IVF,and,at least in Portugal, the Social Security pays the treatments of couples who fit certain condititions,with those I agree.

You say IVF will allow those who can to have babies,Greenkey,but these couples are much more controlled than the "natural" ones.Unfortunately, some of those who can conceive shouldn't be allowed to touch a child and we cannot control those people,but only looking at the dead bodies of children and think we should have acted sooner.

Infertility is very cruel disease,as cruel as any cronic disease and I see no motive for infertile couples not being allowed to have their children. Neteru,infertility is also a masculine issue,not only feminine;infertile men also feel less virile than "normal" men.

Satu
31-08-06, 04:54
I quite agree. There are far too many orphans in this world, and would be parents should give greater focus to such an act as adobption, rather than IVF.

I do agree with you Net that there are far too many Orphans, but adoption is a lot easier said than done.

Most couples do not consider adoption until they have exhausted all other avenues such as IVF. By this stage they usually are older as IVF can take a number of attempts over years, and a lot less lighter in the pocket. Most developed and third world countries still have very strict guidelines for adopting…of course for good reasons. I am pretty sure here In Australia the age limit for couples adopting is 35. These days most couples think about starting a family much later in life so if they need to adopt they are usually past the age limit and if not by the time they come up the queue it could be 2-5 years later they have fallen into this age limit.

As for adopting from third world countries some have even tougher regulations, such as age, having to live in the adoptive country for a period of time, be of a certain level of income and paying thousand of dollars throughout the adoption process. IVF in itself is a costly procedure, most would have already exhausted their funds and therefore could not afford to adopt. It’s a shame that there are so many childless couples, and so many orphans but with all the bureaucratic red tape most are already exhausted financially and mentally and it just gets all too hard.

Lone Raider
31-08-06, 07:05
As with everything in life, this is not a black and white choice.
Generally I think it is good to help people have their own children - however, I also agree that IF they have money enough for IVF, then probably they would have the money to adopt, and that is just as good, if not better.

However - and this stay just between you and me - I HATE my little niece who was born after ten fruitless years with the help of IVF. She has been a screamer from day one. Has hit both my sister and her husband since she could. Her parents, totally in awe with the final result of their efforts, could not bring themselves to be harsh with her. As such, she turned out a total arsehole. Also - she has been filmed and photographed from day one - she is by now convinced that there is no other reason for that than her own fabulousness. Ok, I'm puking now.
So much for fulfilling your dreams...

edit:
as for obese women getting preggers... my best friend in England is a mighty girl. She's had three kids, and each one of them is pretty, and as healthy as they could be. There was no problem at all!

Draco
31-08-06, 07:31
Hell I think we should make people sterile, not more fertile.

Crazy Baby
31-08-06, 08:10
I am definatley for, I know that if i had problems having kids I would go for IVF, for women being pregnant and enjoying that bond is a huge part of becoming a parent. I would however adopt, and even if i had my own child I probably will..

As for the previous statement about more people being made sterile, sadly I have to agree with this. There are to many BAD parents out there, and to many good people who are not given a chance.