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Mad Tony
30-08-06, 15:10
A man who fell from a hotel balcony with his two children has been charged with the murder of his son, a Foreign Office spokesperson has said.

John Hogan, 32, from Bradley Stoke, near Bristol, has also been charged with the attempted murder of his daughter and attempted suicide.

Liam Hogan, 6, died after falling 50ft from a hotel balcony in Crete. His sister Mia survived but broke her arm.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/5297298.stm


Do you think he should be sent to prison for murder?
IMO, I think they should have droped the charges to man slaughter.
His family has a history of mental health and his family said it was completely out of character.

Lara's Boy
30-08-06, 15:14
It's hard to say because we don't know the backstory, but I personally don't think that the charges should be lowered. If there really was some sort of biological effect, then there would be signs sooner, and things like this wouldn't be out of character. Sometimes people just snap, and do crazy things. Maybe he was tired of having children, got through with a divorce and didn't want the wife to have them....there are all sorts of other outside factors that we don't know about. However, I am sure that his history has been examined thoroughly (or at least, I hope so), and I am confident in the decision that has been reached as of yet.

Mad Tony
30-08-06, 15:17
It's hard to say because we don't know the backstory, but I personally don't think that the charges should be lowered. If there really was some sort of biological effect, then there would be signs sooner, and things like this wouldn't be out of character. Sometimes people just snap, and do crazy things. Maybe he was tired of having children, got through with a divorce and didn't want the wife to have them....there are all sorts of other outside factors that we don't know about. However, I am sure that his history has been examined thoroughly (or at least, I hope so), and I am confident in the decision that has been reached as of yet.

He was on vacation with his wife and children.
People say it was a "moment of madness".

Lara's Boy
30-08-06, 15:18
He was on vacation with his wife and children.
People say it was a "moment of madness".


Well, like I said, I don't think his history of mental illness suddenly manifested. Perhaps he has always been preoccupied with the concept of death, he and his wife got into a heated debate, and he reacted with what was on his mind.

madderakka
30-08-06, 15:59
"a moment of madness" that prompts you to jump off a balcony with your two children? Please. I think murder is a just charge

Mad Tony
30-08-06, 16:03
"a moment of madness" that prompts you to jump off a balcony with your two children? Please. I think murder is a just charge
So you don't have one bit of sympathy for him?

I feel sorry for him.
All that he's gonna have to go through in his life.
All the guilt.

Of course, I feel sorry for the kid's family as well.

Spitfire
30-08-06, 16:10
I feel sorry for him but i don't feel sorry for the idiot move to commit suicide with your children. You want to kill yourself go right ahead, I won't stop you. But don't start involving other people or thats is considered murder.

madderakka
30-08-06, 16:10
Of course I feel a bit of sympathy for him but all the sympathy in the world isn't going to bring the little boy back to life. Nor is it going to help the little girl deal with the fact that her father tried to kill her and succeeded in killing her brother. Is sympathy going to sit with her every night when she has nightmares? Is it going to pay for psychologists to help her deal with the trauma? Is it going to hold her hand everytime she gets more than two feet off of the ground and has a panic attack? She will have to deal with the consequences of her father's actions for the rest of her life so why should he escape them?

Mad Tony
30-08-06, 16:12
Of course I feel a bit of sympathy for him but all the sympathy in the world isn't going to bring the little boy back to life. Nor is it going to help the little girl deal with the fact that her father tried to kill her and succeeded in killing her brother. Is sympathy going to sit with her every night when she has nightmares? Is it going to pay for psychologists to help her deal with the trauma? Is it going to hold her hand everytime she gets more than two feet off of the ground and has a panic attack? She will have to deal with the consequences of her father's actions for the rest of her life so why should he escape them?


I don't think he had planned suicide at all.
And I don't think he planned to kill his children either.

What he did was wrong, but I think people should stop being so harsh on him.

angelika
30-08-06, 16:16
The state should have taken his kids away from him since he has such mental problems. No matter what the charges are now the result is the same.

Mad Tony
30-08-06, 16:18
The state should have taken his kids away from him since he has such mental problems. No matter what the charges are now the result is the same.
But he hadn't really had mental problems before the incident.

madderakka
30-08-06, 16:21
She told police he had shouted: "I'll take them with me before you do."
I think he deserves harshness
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=400930&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source=&ct=5

angelika
30-08-06, 16:22
People who do such thing, don;t just wake up one day and fall from balcony.

There must have been other sympoms(I can't find any other word to describe it) before that.

Mad Tony
30-08-06, 16:24
She told police he had shouted: "I'll take them with me before you do."
I think he deserves harshness
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=400930&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source=&ct=5
Like I said, he had suddenly went insane.
Even his wife said it was out of character.

TombRaiderLover
30-08-06, 17:35
I don't think he had planned suicide at all.
And I don't think he planned to kill his children either.

What he did was wrong, but I think people should stop being so harsh on him.
Apparently he's been very suicidal because members of his family had died, so he decided to take his children with him before they died and he'd have to live in further depression. Not sure if this is actual fact or someone's opinion that I heard.

Jake Croft
30-08-06, 17:36
Eek sounds like a weird situation im not sure wether he should go down or not!

UNDERTAKER
30-08-06, 17:56
The children did not want to jump off that balcony. They did not want to commit suicide. They did not want to die. He forced them off that balcony in an attempt to kill them.

In my mind, that equals murder...

Lara's Boy
30-08-06, 18:00
The children did not want to jump off that balcony. They did not want to commit suicide. They did not want to die. He forced them off that balcony in an attempt to kill them.

In my mind, that equals murder...

Agreed 100%

I have absolutely no sympathy for people who

1. Feel that their lives are so terrible that they simply have to end it
2. Attempt to kill others (especially children, for God's sake!!) in the process.

Basic definition of murder: One human kills another human. No matter the disorder, the problems in the home life, or anything is a valid excuse for such acts.

UNDERTAKER
30-08-06, 18:09
Basic definition of murder: One human kills another human. No matter the disorder, the problems in the home life, or anything is a valid excuse for such acts.


What about euthanasia? Do you believe that is murder?

Thorir
30-08-06, 18:12
Killing yourself is fine, and a human right. But to kill your kids before you kill yourself? Why?! What a sick person. A depressed and suicidal person wouldn´t hurt other people. He must seriously have wanted attention.

Mad Tony
30-08-06, 18:13
Has anyone missed the fact that his wife said he was a good father?

Lara's Boy
30-08-06, 18:13
Edit: This is in response to UT's question, this thread got busy while I was typing!

In it's most technical sense, yes.

Euthanasia is nothing more than a euphemism for mercy killing.

Of course, there are different levels of "humanity" and morals involved, but murder is murder, and the courts have already decided (for the most part) where they stand on such "mercy killings"

:wve:

@Ben: It's always the ones that seem to have perfect lives that have the most to hide :wve:

Lenochka
30-08-06, 18:14
Has anyone missed the fact that his wife said he was a good father?

indeed... i dont think we have the full story... on everything... well at least i dont think so... so im not even gonna state an opinion on this

Neteru
30-08-06, 19:27
We don't know all the facts in the case, but rather are making opinions based upon reportage.

If this man has mental health problems and those problems caused him to act in this way then he cannot be legally held responsible. A judge and jury will determine that when they hear all the facts.

Lara Lover
30-08-06, 19:57
I fell sorry for that man. I mean, He must have not thought what he was doing. I think he shouldn't have brought his children with him down that balacony. He should of just went by himself. I mean, That wasn't fair on the children. What did they do?

jackles
30-08-06, 20:14
I'm torn on this one...if my ex did that I would kill him...(yes yes I know I'm against capital punishment etc but hey ho....) but we don't know what happened before hand to drive him to that extreme and it sounds like he wasn't working on a full ticket. The mother seems to be forgiving of him, from the pictures shown in the paper he looks distraught. I dunno.....people do some insane things sometimes.:(