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Lavinder
05-09-06, 16:29
Have you ever felt that you just wake up, do work, go home then go to sleep.
No one really cares if you are there or not, yeah people say hello but then they are busy with everyone else?

I know, I know one can't expect to have full attension from everyone etc. But would it not be nice to feel wanted or loved?
Sometimes I feel it's all just pointless, only living to live.

Pablo.CT
05-09-06, 16:32
Your feeling alone, dont worry I feel very alone right now, especially in school, but life is worth living.

You are wanted whether you feel it or not :)

jarhead
05-09-06, 16:33
errrr dont feel like that alura- life isnt pointless, you'll feel loved and appreciated all the time, just sometimes p0eople might have off days.

im sure some poeple think you are not bothering sometimes :hug:

Mad Tony
05-09-06, 16:34
I have felt like that in the last year.
But now with my new goals that I have set myself.
I don't think i'll feel like that again. :)

Ward Dragon
05-09-06, 16:35
Yeah, I feel that way sometimes, especially when I have a lot of work to do. I usually call my brother and we talk for awhile, which makes me feel better :)

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 16:35
I live my life for God, I feel as if every second of my life is worth living because I truely have a purpose. Without my faith, I'd completely understand where you are coming from. Life would seem pointless.

tr_mitch
05-09-06, 16:36
Yeah felt like that pretty recently actually, Which is kinda strange.... But i'm on the mend.
Hope you feel better soon Lavvy.

interstellardave
05-09-06, 16:37
But would it not be nice to feel wanted or loved?

You see, you only feel unloved, silly! In reality I'm sure you are loved, and cared about by people around you... but everyone is busy with their own lives; probably wondering why you don't love them! ;) These feelings will pass, just try to take a more positive view about life.

Lara's Boy
05-09-06, 16:37
I live my life for God, I feel as if every second of my life is worth living because I truely have a purpose. Without my faith, I'd completely understand where you are coming from. Life would seem pointless.


I must say I am not as great an example of Christianity as Melonie, but my reason is the same as hers. Even if I feel my day may suck, or is horrible, I just have to remember that my God has something planned for me, and just knowing that he is there for me makes everything better :wve:

Lavinder
05-09-06, 16:38
Everyone has labels on me, and most people do not want my company. This year I am going to try and do really well with my work so it would probably be good if I have no distractions.

Mad Tony
05-09-06, 16:38
I must say I am not as great an example of Christianity as Melonie, but my reason is the same as hers. Even if I feel my day may suck, or is horrible, I just have to remember that my God has something planned for me, and just knowing that he is there for me makes everything better :wve:
Yep. I agree with you there ;)
I've never felt totally unloved or anything.

jarhead
05-09-06, 16:39
Everyone has labels on me, and most people do not want my company. This year I am going to try and do really well with my work so it would probably be good if I have no distractions.

good on ya, study well and it'll sure pay off, but dont ignore people who pay you attention. and distractions are sometimes good, school can get pretty boring without them

Thorir
05-09-06, 16:41
I always feel like that. :(

Lavinder
05-09-06, 16:43
It's good that you guys have a religion to keep yourself motivated. I don't believe in any of the religions so that is not an option for me but i'm sure i'd be able to think of something.

As I said in a PM to Jarhead, I crave making people laugh and having discussions but no one to seems to want to approach me anymore.

Andromeda66
05-09-06, 16:43
Have you ever felt that you just wake up, do work, go home then go to sleep.
No one really cares if you are there or not, yeah people say hello but then they are busy with everyone else?


First of all ..here you are :hug:

I remember having such feelings when I was your age. I've grown quite a bit since then though (fortunately or unfortunately)

Dont worry. Its a phase. It'll pass. :wve:

Lara's Boy
05-09-06, 16:45
It's good that you guys have a religion to keep yourself motivated. I don't believe in any of the religions so that is not an option for me but i'm sure i'd be able to think of something.

As I said in a PM to Jarhead, I crave making people laugh and having discussions but no one to seems to want to approach me anymore.


I think that is just it. If you can get out of the phase of wanting to please people, you won't be nearly as disappointed in life. You are living for yourself (since you have no religion), so do what pleases you. If you can make others happy in the process, well, that's just a bonus :wve:

tr_mitch
05-09-06, 16:46
I think that is just it. If you can get out of the phase of wanting to please people, you won't be nearly as disappointed in life. You are living for yourself (since you have no religion), so do what pleases you. If you can make others happy in the process, well, that's just a bonus :wve:

This guy knows his ****.

Lavinder
05-09-06, 16:46
I always feel like that. :(

:hug::hug::hug::hug::hug: I'd make you feel wanted :)

First of all ..here you are :hug:

I remember having such feelings when I was your age. I've grown quite a bit since then though (fortunately or unfortunately)

Dont worry. Its a phase. It'll pass. :wve:

Ok, :hug: Hopefully this phase passes quickly, :o

xMiSsCrOfTx
05-09-06, 16:50
Sometimes I feel it's all just pointless, only living to live.

I used to feel the same way sometimes. And you know what, I was wrong. I thought no one cared about me, no one really gave a rat's ass if I was alive. But I do have people who care for me; family, friends, etc. And you do too. Don't ever feel like life's worthless and pointless. Life is a gift, don't waste it. You're still so young, so am I really. We have SO much more to look forward to in life. :hug:

Andromeda66
05-09-06, 16:51
I think that is just it. If you can get out of the phase of wanting to please people, you won't be nearly as disappointed in life. You are living for yourself (since you have no religion), so do what pleases you. If you can make others happy in the process, well, that's just a bonus :wve:

Bull's eye.

In the words of Bill Cosby

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody"

:hug: It'll pass quicker than you can say 'impenetrability' :D

lita212
05-09-06, 16:52
ok this is off topic but one thing i dont get bout ppl is. ya know when your feeling down right and your like oh i feel sorry for myself cause no ones tklin to me well wot i always so to myself is. if ya really wanted someone to talk to then wouldnt you make the first move instead of waiting for someone to come to you?

Lavinder
05-09-06, 16:52
I think that is just it. If you can get out of the phase of wanting to please people, you won't be nearly as disappointed in life. You are living for yourself (since you have no religion), so do what pleases you. If you can make others happy in the process, well, that's just a bonus :wve:

I am happy out of school, but when i'm there in lessons all the happy thrill I get just drains out of me.

Thorir
05-09-06, 16:53
My day usually involves getting up, walking around, getting food and maybe a bottle of wine... (Two, possibly three...) Just try to have some fun alone, since no one else wants to do stuff with me or meet me...
Always lonely... :(

Sniff! :(

interstellardave
05-09-06, 16:55
It's good that you guys have a religion to keep yourself motivated. I don't believe in any of the religions so that is not an option for me but i'm sure i'd be able to think of something.

As I said in a PM to Jarhead, I crave making people laugh and having discussions but no one to seems to want to approach me anymore.

I'll say what no-one else probably wants to say (where's Catapharact, LOL!), but... if you need help! Take time to reflect on yourself... if people are indeed avoiding you, you need to decide if they have good reason to! No need to feel bad about yourself or anything, I'm just saying no-one is perfect and you may be doing something to cause people to react this way towards you. This may be a chance for personal growth; we all get such chances in life. Just remember, when times get tough in your personal life it is most often a reflection on you--not others. And again, this can--and does--happen to everyone at certain times. You owe it to yourself to be able to look into the mirror! :wve:

Lavinder
05-09-06, 16:56
ok this is off topic but one thing i dont get bout ppl is. ya know when your feeling down right and your like oh i feel sorry for myself cause no ones tklin to me well wot i always so to myself is. if ya really wanted someone to talk to then wouldnt you make the first move instead of waiting for someone to come to you?

I do all the time, and thats another thing that gets me down. Rejection.

My day usually involves getting up, walking around, getting food and maybe a bottle of wine... (Two, possibly three...) Just try to have some fun alone, since no one else wants to do stuff with me or meet me...
Always lonely... :(

Sniff! :(

:( All I can say to you is get out there, do loads of things you like. It helped my mother :)

Titanium
05-09-06, 16:57
Why not do some charity work Thorir? Thats a great way to meet people :)

Lavinder
05-09-06, 17:01
I'll say what no-one else probably wants to say (where's Catapharact, LOL!), but... if you need help! Take time to reflect on yourself... if people are indeed avoiding you, you need to decide if they have good reason to! No need to feel bad about yourself or anything, I'm just saying no-one is perfect and you may be doing something to cause people to react this way towards you. This may be a chance for personal growth; we all get such chances in life. Just remember, when times get tough in your personal life it is most often a reflection on you--not others. And again, this can--and does--happen to everyone at certain times. You owe it to yourself to be able to look into the mirror! :wve:

You don't know how many times i've sat there and thought " What is wrong with me ?"

I've thought and thought. The only reason I can come up with is that i'm the kid thats always bullied, would you want to be seen with someone who is a 'freak' ?

Mad Tony
05-09-06, 17:02
You don't know how many times i've sat there and thought " What is wrong with me ?"

I've thought and thought. The only reason I can come up with is that i'm the kid thats always bullied, would you want to be seen with someone who is a 'freak' ?

You seem to be in a similar situation to me.
Last year at school, I had a terrible year, I was unhappy at school (most of the time) but happy at home.
My mom and my step dad helped me through it a lot.
But this year will be a lot better because of the goals i've set myself.

Thorir
05-09-06, 17:04
Why not do some charity work Thorir? Thats a great way to meet people :)

Mm, I´ve thought about starting to work at an animal shelter... I prefer cats to people. :) Cats I understand.

But I´m not sure...

Kamrusepas
05-09-06, 17:05
Have you ever felt that you just wake up, do work, go home then go to sleep.
No one really cares if you are there or not, yeah people say hello but then they are busy with everyone else?


Every day.

Lavinder
05-09-06, 17:05
Mm, I´ve thought about starting to work at an animal shelter... I prefer cats to people. :) Cats I understand.

But I´m not sure...

Force yourself, never say never.

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 17:06
I must say I am not as great an example of Christianity as Melonie, but my reason is the same as hers. Even if I feel my day may suck, or is horrible, I just have to remember that my God has something planned for me, and just knowing that he is there for me makes everything better :wve:

aww. :hug:

Well I find living a christian life to be very fulfilling. I live my life for God and for God alone. I consider the Lord to be my only need, everything else in my life is just a blessing. If I were to lose all of my family and friends, I still have the comfort of knowing that I have all that I need, and I can still be happy. :)

If you live your life for people, you're not going to be happy. People come and go, and they can never give you the gratification you need to continue on the difficult journey that is life.

Shark_Blade
05-09-06, 17:06
You just need self confident Lav Lav.:hug:

Don't care what people said.You don't need to prove things to them.You need to prove it to yourself who you really are

interstellardave
05-09-06, 17:06
You don't know how many times i've sat there and thought " What is wrong with me ?"

I've thought and thought. The only reason I can come up with is that i'm the kid thats always bullied, would you want to be seen with someone who is a 'freak' ?

I used to feel the same way, actually... I used to even have little fantasies about how I'd "get even" with everyone that was mean to me! (sounds kinda serial-killerish in hidsight, LOL!). Being a kid is indeed brutal at times, I'll grant you that. Like I said, take stock of yourself but don't beat yourself up about it either. Always try to improve yourself but if people are just jerks to you because they're jerks then try and avoid them. There must be other kids like yourself that you can be friends with? You might still be viewed as a group of freaks but at least you'll have each other! And remember... don't bother trying to impress people who aren't worth impressing. If they've proven themselves unworthy of your friendship then just forget 'em! ;)

Mm, I´ve thought about starting to work at an animal shelter... I prefer cats to people. :) Cats I understand.

I really admire that goal!!!

Geck-o-Lizard
05-09-06, 17:07
Everyone has labels on me, and most people do not want my company. This year I am going to try and do really well with my work so it would probably be good if I have no distractions.


Soon as you're out of school and into college, you'll make a dozen new friends, and you'll probably meet better and more interesting folk than you ever did in school.

In school, I was a complete loner, the kid that all the others avoided working with or talking to because I was a "freak". (I wear my hair short and I don't wear girly clothes, so that makes me a transexual???) I didn't give a :cen: about anyone else, purely because they gave even less of a :cen: about me. Work hard at the rest of school so you can go to a good college and/or university, and you'll find yourself surrounded by a surprising number of friendly people. None of them will be in cliques and groups and stuff yet because they won't know each other either, and where the cliques are missing, so are a lot of the stupid social politics that prevent people like us from making many friends during high school. Plus, people who make it to the good courses in college are rarely immature enough to push you away for shallow reasons like the idiots in school always love to do.

And remember... even though you might not realise it, a lot of people DO care about you, regardless of whether or not you're on the deathlists of the trendy kids at school. (They have practically the whole school on their deathlists, so you're not alone there either.) Just hang in there. :)

If you live your life for people, you're not going to be happy. People come and go, and they can never give you the gratification you need to continue on the difficult journey that is life.

No, but if you decide to deliberately avoid getting too social just because your friends won't be there forever, you'll become a miserable old loner. Take what you have and live life to its fullest; don't let the distant inevitabilities stop you from enjoying what you have right now.

Lavinder
05-09-06, 17:08
aww. :hug:

Well I find living a christian life to be very fulfilling. I live my life for God and for God alone. I consider the Lord to be my only need, everything else in my life is just a blessing. If I were to lose all of my family and friends, I still have the comfort of knowing that I have all that I need, and I can still be happy. :)

If you live your life for people, you're not going to be happy. People come and go, and they can never give you the gratification you need to continue on the difficult journey that is life.

That a great way to put it.

Makes me wish I could be a religious person, but I simply am not.

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 17:10
Well I hope that you can find your answer Lav. I know people are telling you to live for yourself, but I completely disagree with that. What is so fulfilling about living for yourself? That sounds pretty selfish to me.

Again, I hope you find your calling Lav. It's something that you must search for, and I'm sure your answer will be revealed to you very soon. Just keep trying hon, everything is going to be ok. :hug: I will support you all the way. :)

JasonDavies15
05-09-06, 17:11
Hello, I understand how pointless saying hello can be, but remember life is for the living, there will be many happy times in life, it's part of life to feel down or whatever but it can only get better, try and look forward to something, make plans, make new friends if you can and keep your intrests in mind. I am going through a very tough patch in my life, but now I have something to aim for, a trip to new zealand, driving lessons, college and make new friends. It can be very hard so remember it's not just you who feels like life is just a narrow pointless path because despite how you may feel you have alot to offer to the world, you can go places, do anything you want to do, the only way you'll get attention is to make an effort for others, but don't over do it, sometimes friendships with people need at two way interraction, not just you always calling them, always going round there's, let them come to you sometimes, be happy with yourself and proud and you'll find your self respect pays off.

Lavinder
05-09-06, 17:14
I used to feel the same way, actually... I used to even have little fantasies about how I'd "get even" with everyone that was mean to me! (sounds kinda serial-killerish in hidsight, LOL!). Being a kid is indeed brutal at times, I'll grant you that. Like I said, take stock of yourself but don't beat yourself up about it either. Always try to improve yourself but if people are just jerks to you because they're jerks then try and avoid them. There must be other kids like yourself that you can be friends with? You might still be viewed as a group of freaks but at least you'll have each other! And remember... don't bother trying to impress people who aren't worth impressing. If they've proven themselves unworthy of your friendship then just forget 'em! ;)



I really admire that goal!!!

Yeah, I have a group of friends who make me happy. But being in lessons with people who hate me, and having to sit boy girl boy girl next to someone who would rather eat an infected toe nail than be nice to me.

Soon as you're out of school and into college, you'll make a dozen new friends, and you'll probably meet better and more interesting folk than you ever did in school.

In school, I was a complete loner, the kid that all the others avoided working with or talking to because I was a "freak". (I wear my hair short and I don't wear girly clothes, so that makes me a transexual???) I didn't give a :cen: about anyone else, purely because they gave even less of a :cen: about me. Work hard at the rest of school so you can go to a good college and/or university, and you'll find yourself surrounded by a surprising number of friendly people. None of them will be in cliques and groups and stuff yet because they won't know each other either, and where the cliques are missing, so are a lot of the stupid social politics that prevent people like us from making many friends during high school. Plus, people who make it to the good courses in college are rarely immature enough to push you away for shallow reasons like the idiots in school always love to do.

And remember... even though you might not realise it, a lot of people DO care about you, regardless of whether or not you're on the deathlists of the trendy kids at school. (They have practically the whole school on their deathlists, so you're not alone there either.) Just hang in there. :)



No, but if you decide to deliberately avoid getting too social just because your friends won't be there forever, you'll become a miserable old loner. Take what you have and live life to its fullest; don't let the distant inevitabilities stop you from enjoying what you have right now.

You have near enough said the exact words that my parents have said to me, and that comforts me. Knowing that someone else takes thier views, because I have known my parents to tell me malicious things or bully me.

Least I only have 2 years left, and with all the work I am going to have to do i'm sure it will fly by.

Jonnipants
05-09-06, 17:15
My day usually involves getting up, walking around, getting food and maybe a bottle of wine... (Two, possibly three...) Just try to have some fun alone, since no one else wants to do stuff with me or meet me...
Always lonely... :(

Sniff! :(

Cheer up :( It's your birthday! Besides I can't imagine why people wouldn't wanna do stuff with you.

-sends birthday hugs- :hug::hug::hug::hug:

Geck-o-Lizard
05-09-06, 17:16
Well I hope that you can find your answer Lav. I know people are telling you to live for yourself, but I completely disagree with that. What is so fulfilling about living for yourself? That sounds pretty selfish to me.

But on the contrary, what's so fulfilling about living life for everyone but yourself, unless that's how you enjoy spending your time? It's your life and you've only got one to live. You shouldn't live selfishly, but you should live to fulfil your own dreams and desires, otherwise your life will be miserable. You enjoy living life by following your God; other people enjoy doing other things, and there's nothing wrong with them adding their own preferences into the equation.

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 17:17
I believe there is so much more to life than what we see. Honestly, why on earth would we exist if we just die and nothing happens? I can go around, participate in every charity in the book, and make life easier for countless different people, but what does that matter if we're all going to die and become nothingness anyway? Say I live in a mansion with an endless supply of money, I'm adored by millions, there is nothing on earth I could not have. Does it really sound all that appealing? Not for me anyway. I truly believe in a greater purpose.

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 17:18
But on the contrary, what's so fulfilling about living life for everyone but yourself.
Did I ever say you shouldn't live for yourself at all? No. Of course you should live for yuorself to a certain extent, but not completely. Some of the worst people in the world are people who believe the world revolves around them. I absolutely detest selfishness.

JasonDavies15
05-09-06, 17:19
I believe there is so much more to life than what we see. Honestly, why on earth would we exist if we just die and nothing happens? I can go around, participate in every charity in the book, and make life easier for countless different people, but what does that matter if we're all going to die and become nothingness anyway? Say I live in a mansion with an endless supply of money, I'm adored by millions, there is nothing on earth I could not have. Does it really sound all that appealing? Not for me anyway. I truly believe in a greater purpose.

Well if you have that view then what would the point in our evolution be?

xMiSsCrOfTx
05-09-06, 17:20
But on the contrary, what's so fulfilling about living life for everyone but yourself [...]

It doesn't have to be one or the other. You can live for yourself but at the same time, live for others. If you know what I'm getting at here.

Geck-o-Lizard
05-09-06, 17:20
Some of the worst people in the world are people who believe the world revolves around them. I absolutely detest selfishness.

I wasn't defending them. :D

JasonDavies15
05-09-06, 17:21
It doesn't have to be one or the other. You can live for yourself but at the same time, live for others. If you know what I'm getting at here.

I understand, but I have been trying to look after my alcoholic mother and I gave up my college last year for it, and now I feel I have kinda wasted my life, after she only ended up in hospital at the end of it all.

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 17:22
Well if you have that view then what would the point in our evolution be?

Oh I definitely think that our advancements in technology and similar aspects are important, they help our lives to become easier; however, that's definitely not reason enough to live your life for.

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 17:22
I wasn't defending them. :D

Well ok then. :p

Thorir
05-09-06, 17:24
Besides I can't imagine why people wouldn't wanna do stuff with you.

-sends birthday hugs- :hug::hug::hug::hug:

Because they SUCK! :mad:
Thanks for the hugs... :)

JasonDavies15
05-09-06, 17:24
Oh I definitely think that our advancements in technology and similar aspects are important, they help our lives to become easier; however, that's definitely not reason enough to live your life for.

My view of life is all for the memories and experience, we can all do whatever we like, take intrest in whatever religion, listen to whatever music we like, but it's the fullfillment of reaching our goals in life.

interstellardave
05-09-06, 17:25
I understand, but I have been trying to look after my alcoholic mother and I gave up my college last year for it, and now I feel I have kinda wasted my life, after she only ended up in hospital at the end of it all.

Everything you do for others helps yourself. You sound like you haven't realized that but the experience of taking care of your alcoholic mother (and I'm not saying it was pleasant or in any way something you'd want to have to do) can help you be a better person... if you look at it the right way.

Ward Dragon
05-09-06, 17:26
I'd say that everybody needs to have a purpose, some sort of over-arching goal that they are striving towards. Each person needs to find what that purpose is for themselves, whether it be living for others, living for art, etc. Perhaps Lavender's purpose at the moment is to do well in school in order to get into a good college. That's for Lavender to decide, of course, but I think defining a goal like that will help maintain focus :)

Edit: Wow, I can't take time to reply without a million posts appearing in the meantime:p My advice goes to Thorir too. Cheer up, you aren't alone :)

Lavinder
05-09-06, 17:26
Because they SUCK! :mad:
Thanks for the hugs... :)

I agree that some people do suck :hea:

JasonDavies15
05-09-06, 17:27
Everything you do for others helps yourself. You sound like you haven't realized that but the experience of taking care of your alcoholic mother (and I'm not saying it was pleasant or in any way something you'd want to have to do) can help you be a better person... if you look at it the right way.

Actually I understand where you are getting at but it dodn't make me any better, but worse, depressed and very snappy. But in the experience terms then yes, I feel like I could empathise with others who have been through a similar situation and offer advice from my views.

Lavinder
05-09-06, 17:28
I'd say that everybody needs to have a purpose, some sort of over-arching goal that they are striving towards. Each person needs to find what that purpose is for themselves, whether it be living for others, living for art, etc. Perhaps Lavender's purpose at the moment is to do well in school in order to get into a good college. That's for Lavender to decide, of course, but I think defining a goal like that will help maintain focus :)

Yes, because I have been letting things slip lately. And I feel that if I get a better education now I can grow up a smart young woman and be able to get a good job = money = spending money to complete my life and make others happy. Thats what I believe in.

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 17:29
My view of life is all for the memories and experience, we can all do whatever we like, take intrest in whatever religion, listen to whatever music we like, but it's the fullfillment of reaching our goals in life.

That's definitely a nice outlook, but still, that alone isn't really worth living life for me. Let's say my goal was to become the CEO of a major company, and throughout my life, I finally achieved my goal! Then I die and fall into an abyss of pure and utter nothingness. Does it really seem like I accomplished that much? It makes life seem more like a game really.

JasonDavies15
05-09-06, 17:31
That's definitely a nice outlook, but still, that alone isn't really worth living life for me. Let's say my goal was to become the CEO of a major company, and throughout my life, I finally achieved my goal! Then I die and fall into an abyss of pure and utter nothingness. Does it really seem like I accomplished that much? It makes life seem more like a game really.

Are you sure, is that how you look at death? That really isn't true, life in my eyes is a progression of the spirit itself, when you die your physical self is dead but the soul will live on....

I think you need to look into yourself and think when I die is that what will really happen, death is as beautiful as birth!

Lavinder
05-09-06, 17:35
That's definitely a nice outlook, but still, that alone isn't really worth living life for me. Let's say my goal was to become the CEO of a major company, and throughout my life, I finally achieved my goal! Then I die and fall into an abyss of pure and utter nothingness. Does it really seem like I accomplished that much? It makes life seem more like a game really.

So you don't believe in setting yourself a goal? But following your religion untill you die and after if there is an after life?

Just wondering if I had understood you completely :)

interstellardave
05-09-06, 17:36
Are you sure, is that how you look at death? That really isn't true, life in my eyes is a progression of the spirit itself, when you die your physical self is dead but the soul will live on....

I think you need to look into yourself and think when I die is that what will really happen, death is as beautiful as birth!

That is how I view it... thus, everything in life has meaning! If you live once and then die, and that's it, that's all there is, then you have no reason to do anything. You may as well kill people, kill yourself, whatever. Only continuation of the Soul (or Spirit) can bring meaning to the experiences we have right now, here on Earth.

Actually this view of life is like a video-game IMO. You progress, "level up" as an entity "evolve" as it were. Then, when you die... you restart and play the drama again... perhaps a different character but the same driving force... perhaps a different pathway to take, but the same goal...

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 17:36
I never said I looked at death like that Jason, I was giving and example of what life would be like without an afterlife. Like I said before, I believe there truly is a greater purpose, and our lives on earth are preperations for our true purpose. God created humans with the choice. We don't have to go to heaven. Our lives here on earth is all about living out our decision. If you want to live for yourself and ignore your purpose, you're going to end up in hell, it's the cold hard truth. The way you decide to live your life will greatly impact your eternal future. It's tragic to see people waste their lives away and end up with a devastating result.

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 17:37
So you don't believe in setting yourself a goal? But following your religion untill you die and after if there is an after life?

Just wondering if I had understood you completely :)

oh no, not that. I definitely believe in setting goals and accomplishing them; however, I don't believe that goals are our purpose to live.

JasonDavies15
05-09-06, 17:38
That is how I view it... thus, everything in life has meaning! If you live once and then die, and that's it, that's all there is, then you have no reason to do anything. You may as well kill people, kill yourself, whatever. Only continuation of the Soul (or Spirit) can bring meaning to the experiences we have right now, here on Earth.

Actually this view of life is like a video-game IMO. You progress, "level up" as an entity "evolve" as it were. Then, when you die... you restart and play the drama again... perhaps a different character but the same driving force... perhaps a different pathway to take, but the same goal...

Precisely! When we die, it will be like awakening from dream we fully remembered, our experiences on earth follow with us in our spirit.

interstellardave
05-09-06, 17:38
oh no, not that. I definitely believe in setting goals and accomplishing them; however, I don't believe that goals are our purpose to live.

IMO the evolution of the soul is the purpose... and it takes lifetimes... ;)

Lavinder
05-09-06, 17:38
I never said I looked at death like that, I was giving and example of what life would be like without an afterlife. Like I said before, I believe there truly is a greater purpose, and our lives on earth are preperations for our true purpose. God created humans with the choice. We don't have to go to heaven. Our lives here on earth is all about living out our decision. If you want to live for yourself and ignore your purpose, you're going to end up in hell, it's the cold hard truth. The way you decide to live your life will greatly impact your eternal future. It's tragic to see people waste their lives away and end up with a devastating result.

What makes you so sure? Faith?

I've never understood religious people, i'd like to find out more. :)

Shark_Blade
05-09-06, 17:40
Yes, because I have been letting things slip lately. And I feel that if I get a better education now I can grow up a smart young woman and be able to get a good job = money = spending money to complete my life and make others happy. Thats what I believe in.
your dream is kinda same as my story..

melonie, you sure are good at this kinda things:D

and believe me, the past hurts. well, I'm now studying to get my degree but just remembered long time ago at school..

JasonDavies15
05-09-06, 17:41
I never said I looked at death like that Jason, I was giving and example of what life would be like without an afterlife. Like I said before, I believe there truly is a greater purpose, and our lives on earth are preperations for our true purpose. God created humans with the choice. We don't have to go to heaven. Our lives here on earth is all about living out our decision. If you want to live for yourself and ignore your purpose, you're going to end up in hell, it's the cold hard truth. The way you decide to live your life will greatly impact your eternal future. It's tragic to see people waste their lives away and end up with a devastating result.

I have no belief in heaven and hell, spirituality is my intrest. We all have purpose, I feel our life is already built for us we just follow the strings and then understand. Whether killing or sinning on our journey through life it was our choice and that choice was already made before we even lived.

Lavinder
05-09-06, 17:46
your dream is kinda same as my story..

melonie, you sure are good at this kinda things:D

and believe me, the past hurts. well, I'm now studying to get my degree but just remembered long time ago at school..

Ohhh do you write?

interstellardave
05-09-06, 17:46
I have no belief in heaven and hell, spirituality is my intrest. We all have purpose, I feel our life is already built for us we just follow the strings and then understand. Whether killing or sinning on our journey through life it was our choice and that choice was already made before we even lived.

It is through the experiences that we grow... through various lifetimes you will kill and be killed you will do wrong and you will do right... the path that leads to total enlightenment is there for everyone but some will move faster than others. Some will go backwards too much before they get going in the right direction... BUT WE'LL ALL GET THERE IN THE END. People forget that God said 'he' will not lose one single sheep! So Hell is merely the temporary separation from your own divine self--not an eternity.

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 17:47
What makes you so sure? Faith?

I've never understood religious people, i'd like to find out more. :)

My faith is everything to me, and I have absolutely no doubt at all that there is a God and His purpose for us. It's hard to explain it to people who don't sharet he same experiences as I do. Obviously, if you have no sense of God, you really would have a difficult time believing in Him, but the thing is, I do sense God. I've never seen nor heard, but I've definitely felt His presence, and numerous times I've seen my prayers answered.

When I pray I know God is there and I know that He is listening. It's hard to explain, but I'm doing the best I can here. Let's say that I was standing in my room and I decided to talk to a lamp in my room. Obviously, I'm not even for a second going to feel like it's listening to me, It will just feel like i'm talking in thin air. It's completely different when I pray though. I truly and honestly feel like He's listening to me, and He's given me such a peace inside that I cannot even describe, it truly is a wonderful thing.

I don't sense Him 24/7 though. Sometimes when I go through hard times I don't feel God's presence near as strong as I have before, and it can be confusing, but that's when I realize that God wants me to stretch my faith even further. I trust in God when I feel HIm and I know He is there with me, but would I trust in God if I didn't feel Him? That's the test. And sometimes I slack when that happens, but lately God has helped me through it. I've been persistent and the pay off has been amazing. I'm happier now than I have ever been in my entire life, and I without a doubt feel like I honestly have a purpose. I can't even describe to you how comforting it is for me to know that I have everything I need, and that's God, I need nothing else. It also helps me to appreciate everythign else I have! For example, my family. I've always loved them so much, but now I realize more than ever that they are such an amazing blessing from God, and I am so grateful for that.

I could go on and on forever about this, but for sake of time, I won't. Obviously you can see I have a great passion for the subject, and I really do love God. I love Him so much more than I could ever love a person, and I feel an immeasurable amount of love in return. It's difficult to explain, but I will say one thing, it's most definitely worth living my life for. :)

Greenkey2
05-09-06, 17:48
I live my life for God, I feel as if every second of my life is worth living because I truely have a purpose. Without my faith, I'd completely understand where you are coming from. Life would seem pointless.

Well said Mel :wve: Even though I do not belong to any active religion I can certainly understand where you're coming from.

Having someone or something to care for helps me feel wanted and loved. At one time I did feel as though there was no point in caring about your life, but i found meaning in caring for others and learning to love myself as a worthwhile person. I'm sure the same will happen for you Lavinder :hug: In the meantime here's loads of hugs from all my cats - we all love you! http://www.websmileys.com/sm/animal/tier42.gif :hug: :hug: http://www.websmileys.com/sm/animal/tier42.gif

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 17:49
melonie, you sure are good at this kinda things:D


Thank you. :hug:

Well everyone, I have to go get some lunch, then after that I need to finish studying for a quiz in my computer class. I'm very passionate about this subject and I could talk about it forever, but I don't have the time. :(

I'll check back up on this topic later, and if anyone else wishes to discuss these issues with me, feel free to send me a PM, I'd love to chat about it all. :D

Shark_Blade
05-09-06, 17:52
Ohhh do you write?
No, I mean my life story.
I thought my past is harsh too.

bye melonie

Lavinder
05-09-06, 17:53
My faith is everything to me, and I have absolutely no doubt at all that there is a God and His purpose for us. It's hard to explain it to people who don't sharet he same experiences as I do. Obviously, if you have no sense of God, you really would have a difficult time believing in Him, but the thing is, I do sense God. I've never seen nor heard, but I've definitely felt His presence, and numerous times I've seen my prayers answered.

When I pray I know God is there and I know that He is listening. It's hard to explain, but I'm doing the best I can here. Let's say that I was standing in my room and I decided to talk to a lamp in my room. Obviously, I'm not even for a second going to feel like it's listening to me, It will just feel like i'm talking in thin air. It's completely different when I pray though. I truly and honestly feel like He's listening to me, and He's given me such a peace inside that I cannot even describe, it truly is a wonderful thing.

I don't sense Him 24/7 though. Sometimes when I go through hard times I don't feel God's presence near as strong as I have before, and it can be confusing, but that's when I realize that God wants me to stretch my faith even further. I trust in God when I feel HIm and I know He is there with me, but would I trust in God if I didn't feel Him? That's the test. And sometimes I slack when that happens, but lately God has helped me through it. I've been persistent and the pay off has been amazing. I'm happier now than I have ever been in my entire life, and I without a doubt feel like I honestly have a purpose. I can't even describe to you how comforting it is for me to know that I have everything I need, and that's God, I need nothing else. It also helps me to appreciate everythign else I have! For example, my family. I've always loved them so much, but now I realize more than ever that they are such an amazing blessing from God, and I am so grateful for that.

I could go on and on forever about this, but for sake of time, I won't. Obviously you can see I have a great passion for the subject, and I really do love God. I love Him so much more than I could ever love a person, and I feel an immeasurable amount of love in return. It's difficult to explain, but I will say one thing, it's most definitely worth living my life for. :)

Do you by any chance teach children about your religion? You would be very good at it. Seeing as you feel so strong about it :) I can get exactly what you are saying in your post, it must be a wonderfull feeling. Like a guardian angel.

Well said Mel :wve: Even though I do not belong to any active religion I can certainly understand where you're coming from.

Having someone or something to care for helps me feel wanted and loved. At one time I did feel as though there was no point in caring about your life, but i found meaning in caring for others and learning to love myself as a worthwhile person. I'm sure the same will happen for you Lavinder :hug: In the meantime here's loads of hugs from all my cats - we all love you! http://www.websmileys.com/sm/animal/tier42.gif :hug: :hug: http://www.websmileys.com/sm/animal/tier42.gif

Thank hunny, when the time comes i'm sure I will think back at what you said and smile :D

Give your cats a hug for me :hug: And that extra tin of salmon they always dream of.

Lavinder
05-09-06, 17:55
No, I mean my life story.
I thought my past is harsh too.

bye melonie

Oh, I get it now :)

Greenkey2
05-09-06, 18:00
*comes back wiping salmon off her paws*

They say thank you :D

Lavinder
05-09-06, 18:02
*comes back wiping salmon off her paws*

They say thank you :D

:D:D They better not get use to it though, they will be a fatty like my dog Jaffa :o Can't resist the eyes...

I feel much better now, i've listened to my favourite music. Talked with my favourite people (you guys) etc etc. Thank you, your all wise :p *sounds silly*

GodOfLight
05-09-06, 18:06
just make sure you learn to love yourself and want yourself. thats the real key. dont run after an external person... wether boyfriend, friend, parent, or even an external god/belief.... because ultimatley all you really have is yourself... and if you can really love yourself and just be with yourself, without escaping into a book, movie, video game, party, religion etc, then you'll have managed to have tapped into something very powerful: you.

saray
05-09-06, 18:25
laura-kins! whats happened?... my afternoon sucked big time. i have to sit by ranveer and lashane or however you spell his name... in art, ranveer kept giving me looks like, why the **** are you here, your to unpopualr to be here, stupid cow!.. and lashane was knocking my arm when i was trying to do my folder lettering.and then pretend it was an accident. :mad: i'm gonna ask to be moved into your class because at leats mrs fitton can teach ... i cried so much on the way home, and over what? aa bunch of chavs who think theyre gods gift. they can get you down sometimes, but in the end, think about why your at school. your there to get the things most important in your life. ignore all the stupid twonks, they're just jealous because your pretty, and want a good school life. they are pathetic low lifes.

Geck-o-Lizard
05-09-06, 18:30
you're going to end up in hell, it's the cold hard truth.

No, it isn't. Truth is facts, not belief, and no matter how strongly you believe it, without cold hard evidence it's nothing but myth.

[edit] Looks like I'm pulling the tiger's tail here. I'm saying this because I'm really tired of people telling me that things are right or wrong simply according to their own personal beliefs. It's your belief and I'm not challenging it, but in return I think many of us non-Christians and non-Religious types would appreciate it (sorry, not trying to speak on anyone's behalf here) if you would refrain from telling us that myths in your religion are "cold hard truths", and that your religion has any authority over how we live.

Lavinder
05-09-06, 18:31
laura-kins! whats happened?... my afternoon sucked big time. i have to sit by ranveer and lashane or however you spell his name... in art, ranveer kept giving me looks like, why the **** are you here, your to unpopualr to be here, stupid cow!.. and lashane was knocking my arm when i was trying to do my folder lettering.and then pretend it was an accident. :mad: i'm gonna ask to be moved into your class because at leats mrs fitton can teach ... i cried so much on the way home, and over what? aa bunch of chavs who think theyre gods gift. they can get you down sometimes, but in the end, think about why your at school. your there to get the things most important in your life. ignore all the stupid twonks, they're just jealous because your pretty, and want a good school life. they are pathetic low lifes.
Ohhh dear :hug: You cried? Grrrr, I hate that bunch. When you look at thier behavior they are less intelligent than monkeys.

Nothing 'happened' just being completely ignored in nearly every lesson. I know its better than being called names but... argh, can't think of any buts.

Twonks :D :vlol:

You should take all that advice that you given to me :) Your pretty and sucessfull.

By the way, has your dad stopped you coming online?

saray
05-09-06, 18:32
stopped me going on msn :mad: stupid fanny! :p

back on topic:- the highlight of my day was science when we looked at each other and burst out laughing :vlol:



GRRR I WISH KALLE WOULD GET HIS ARSE ON HERE!

ILG49ers
05-09-06, 18:37
I live my life for God, I feel as if every second of my life is worth living because I truely have a purpose. Without my faith, I'd completely understand where you are coming from. Life would seem pointless.

I coudn't say it better myself! :)

A few years back when my faith in God wasn’t as strong, I was really questioning a lot of things about my life and my faith. My family and I were going through some very hard times, and I really just didn’t get what the whole point of life really was. It was only about 2 years ago, when I was 16 that I really begin to take my Christian faith serious, and though my family still is going through some hard times, it’s my faith that keeps me going. I know God has a purpose for my life.

Lavinder, I don't know what you believe in, but I do I know that your life isn't pointless, you do have a purpose! :hug:

Lavinder
05-09-06, 18:38
stopped me going on msn :mad: stupid fanny! :p

back on topic:- the highlight of my day was science when we looked at each other and burst out laughing :vlol:

Grrr, and Winston did not even tell me! Kalle told me through Winston :p

Yeah, I had to hold it in because he was right next to me. Next highlight was coming home and listening to my new Evanescence album full blast :D

Anyway, must not go off-topic sorry to be a whinge, PM me :D

GodOfLight
05-09-06, 18:40
I never said I looked at death like that Jason, I was giving and example of what life would be like without an afterlife. Like I said before, I believe there truly is a greater purpose, and our lives on earth are preperations for our true purpose. God created humans with the choice. We don't have to go to heaven. Our lives here on earth is all about living out our decision. If you want to live for yourself and ignore your purpose, you're going to end up in hell, it's the cold hard truth. The way you decide to live your life will greatly impact your eternal future. It's tragic to see people waste their lives away and end up with a devastating result.

your view is just so dogmatic at times. i dont understand how you can always just think that there is only one way to live ones life, otherwise one ends up in your christian hell. there are so many different paths and purposes one can follow, and funnily enough the ones that go against all the christian things that would normally send one to heaven according to you, ar exactly those things that have allowed us to progress as a civilization :wve:

Geck-o-Lizard
05-09-06, 18:40
laura-kins! whats happened?... my afternoon sucked big time. i have to sit by ranveer and lashane or however you spell his name... in art, ranveer kept giving me looks like, why the **** are you here, your to unpopualr to be here, stupid cow!.. and lashane was knocking my arm when i was trying to do my folder lettering.and then pretend it was an accident. :mad: i'm gonna ask to be moved into your class because at leats mrs fitton can teach ... i cried so much on the way home, and over what? aa bunch of chavs who think theyre gods gift. they can get you down sometimes, but in the end, think about why your at school. your there to get the things most important in your life. ignore all the stupid twonks, they're just jealous because your pretty, and want a good school life. they are pathetic low lifes.


Huh. There was a jerk in my art class a couple of years ago like that. He stopped pestering me after I gave him a good knocking one day when the teacher left the room. I'm NOT saying that violence is the answer, but the best way to get those types to stop is to stand up to them and let them know they can't push you around any more. Teachers often don't care about bullying going on in the classroom; they feel that it's more hassle than their job's worth to attend to every complaint made by pupils, so often they won't bother doing anything.

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 20:35
your view is just so dogmatic at times. i dont understand how you can always just think that there is only one way to live ones life, otherwise one ends up in your christian hell. there are so many different paths and purposes one can follow, and funnily enough the ones that go against all the christian things that would normally send one to heaven according to you, ar exactly those things that have allowed us to progress as a civilization :wve:

Those are my beliefs, not yours, so why do you have a problem with it? I don't see it affecting you any. I respect your beliefs; therefore, I wish to be treated with the same respect regarding mine.

Shark_Blade
05-09-06, 20:40
once a bully kept tossing crumpled trash paper to a girl in my class.She yelled him to stop,but he didn't. I can't believe why the other boys ignore her wailing so I stood up and punch him on the stomach without thinking. The reason why I lost control is because that girl is the one I had a crush at that time.

Pity she didn't have the same feelings as me. She said I'm childish (whaaat??) but thanked me for helping her out.

btw he change school a couple of days later. I don't know if the event is related.

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 21:19
Well at least you stuck up for her. :p

Shark_Blade
05-09-06, 21:23
^yeah. I can't stand boys bullying girls. they should get a life.

tr_mitch
05-09-06, 21:24
^yeah. I can't stand boys bullying girls. they should get a life.

*Throws Mel across a table*

Geck-o-Lizard
05-09-06, 21:33
Those are my beliefs, not yours, so why do you have a problem with it? I don't see it affecting you any. I respect your beliefs; therefore, I wish to be treated with the same respect regarding mine.

We're not disrespecting your beliefs (well, I'm not, at any rate, and I apologise if you find any of this disrespectful). We're offended at you telling us that claims made by your religion are 100% solid fact and apply to everyone in the world - we thoroughly disagree with the claims made by Christianity, where its prophets, saints, popes and other leaders claim to know that everyone will go to heaven or hell when they die. That's your belief, and that's fine by me, but it's not "hard cold fact".

Water can be solid. Fact.
Fire is hot. Fact.
I am eating a packet of crisps. Fact.
If I get out my seat and jump up in the air, I'll fall back down again. Fact.
The Matrix is a good movie. Opinion.
Politicians are evil. Opinion.
My religion is the only true one. Opinion.
I am going to Hell when I die if I disobey Christian morals. Opinion.

Shark_Blade
05-09-06, 21:43
*Throws Mel across a table*
mitch! :eek:
I'm surprised at you!
Tossing around young ladies like that ain't good manners

*slip a big spider onto Mel's shoulder

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 21:46
*Throws Mel across a table*

ahhh! *slides off table on the floor*

Shark, I think this is the part where you're supposed to stick up for me. *looks at spider on shoulder*

:mad:

Apofiss
05-09-06, 21:48
*Throws Mel across a table*

:vlol:...sorry, but this sounded funny-cute lol.. considering all thread :D

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 21:49
We're not disrespecting your beliefs (well, I'm not, at any rate, and I apologise if you find any of this disrespectful). We're offended at you telling us that claims made by your religion are 100% solid fact and apply to everyone in the world - we thoroughly disagree with the claims made by Christianity, where its prophets, saints, popes and other leaders claim to know that everyone will go to heaven or hell when they die. That's your belief, and that's fine by me, but it's not "hard cold fact".


Well I appreciate the fact that you respect my opinions, as I do yours, but you've misunderstood me. You thought that I was telling everyone my beliefs were facts and everyone else's weren't, but what I probably should have made more clear was that I am confident that they are 100% true, and I have no doubt in them, but that doesn't mean that I'm telling everyone I'm right and they are wrong. I was merely stating that I am firmly grounded in my beliefs, I believe in them whole heartedly.

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 21:50
:vlol:...sorry, but this sounded funny-cute lol.. considering all thread :D

You think it's cute?! Omg, I have a bump on my head now! :mad:

:vlol:

Shark_Blade
05-09-06, 21:52
It was a toy spider mel :ton:

*help mel stand up and walk her to her throne,rolling red carpet all the way

tr_mitch
05-09-06, 21:53
http://www.storagebin.us/smilies/smilies/btchfight.gif
Hehe... That's not really what i'm Like, Honest.
:cool:

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 21:55
Riiiight. :p

*snobby look*

*arrogantly walks to throne*

*trips on red carpet*

:o

Apofiss
05-09-06, 21:59
You think it's cute?! Omg, I have a bump on my head now! :mad:

:vlol:

Nuu.. I'm sure it was a soft landing on a ... :D

http://www.storagebin.us/smilies/smilies/btchfight.gif ... <.< ...:vlol:

As for the thread's main point, if someone is feeling lonely and down.. well it's just a matter of time when u'll find the right people around you ^^ ..of course sitting ducks wont help much tho :p

tr_mitch
05-09-06, 22:01
You just have to think happy thoughts to get you through it, Like the thought of Mel immitating a crap and not being able to get back up.

http://www.zolmedia.com/images/WomanBendingOverBackwards.gif

Catapharact
05-09-06, 22:05
Have you ever felt that you just wake up, do work, go home then go to sleep?

*Sigh* If life was just this simple...

No, I haven't felt like that at all. I actually feel too overwhelmed these days; Too many things to do, and not enough time to do them all in. If only we had 30 hour days. Wouldn't that be a delight.

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 22:06
You just have to think happy thoughts to get your through it, Like the thought of Mel immitating a crap and not being able to get back up.

http://www.zolmedia.com/images/WomanBendingOverBackwards.gif

I can do that! :D She needs to straighten her knees out a bit more though. But then again... She is wearing a skirt, so I'll giver her props for that. :p

And yeah, about what you said. Happy thoughts... http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6636/16x16smileyindifferentfd5.gif

Catapharact
05-09-06, 22:09
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6636/16x16smileyindifferentfd5.gif

Offtopic:

That would my fav. smiley of all times.

Lara Croft!
05-09-06, 22:10
http://www.storagebin.us/smilies/smilies/btchfight.gif ... <.< ...:vlol:



LMFAO!!!!I love that smilie....:D :D :D

Shark_Blade
05-09-06, 22:11
You just have to think happy thoughts to get you through it, Like the thought of Mel immitating a crap and not being able to get back up.

http://www.zolmedia.com/images/WomanBendingOverBackwards.gif
:vlol:
Imagine Mel doing that during her office hour break


:vlol: I guess you can start your yoga club at work mel :D

Melonie Tomb Raider
05-09-06, 22:59
I thought everyone stretched during breaks at work? http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6636/16x16smileyindifferentfd5.gif

:p

tampi
05-09-06, 23:29
We're not disrespecting your beliefs (well, I'm not, at any rate, and I apologise if you find any of this disrespectful). We're offended at you telling us that claims made by your religion are 100% solid fact and apply to everyone in the world - we thoroughly disagree with the claims made by Christianity, where its prophets, saints, popes and other leaders claim to know that everyone will go to heaven or hell when they die. That's your belief, and that's fine by me, but it's not "hard cold fact".

Water can be solid. Fact.
Fire is hot. Fact.
I am eating a packet of crisps. Fact.
If I get out my seat and jump up in the air, I'll fall back down again. Fact.
The Matrix is a good movie. Opinion.
Politicians are evil. Opinion.
My religion is the only true one. Opinion.
I am going to Hell when I die if I disobey Christian morals. Opinion.


Water can be solid. Fact.--------------questionable
Fire is hot. Fact.-----------------------questionable
I am eating a packet of crisps. Fact.--------------questionable
If I get out my seat and jump up in the air, I'll fall back down again. Fact.------------questionable
The Matrix is a good movie. Opinion.--------------questionable
Politicians are evil. Opinion.---------------------questionable
My religion is the only true one. Opinion.--------------questionable
I am going to Hell when I die if I disobey Christian morals. Opinion.-------------questionable

if your you say, the man is the measurement of all the things-------yes

but, how you measure the spirit of a man?

Geck-o-Lizard
05-09-06, 23:59
Rather than getting into a philosophical debate over perception and extradimensional reality, I'm gonna just let you know that I'm using the generally officially accepted definitions of fact (http://www.answers.com/fact&r=67) and opinion (http://www.answers.com/opinion&r=67).

GodOfLight
06-09-06, 00:06
i always respect your beliefs melonie, as you know from many many many threads. but earlier you posted and said that the cold reality is that people will go to hell if they dont do such and such. this is your belief, yes... that is fine. you just have a tendency of being very oppressive with your views in many instances. i know you don't do it obviously, but just saying the whole fire and brimstone stuff is an insult imo. you did the same thing once in one of the very ancient gay,lesbian etc threads and started posting about demons and torture in hell. yes, you bleieve this will happen to certain members of society, but i myself take posts such as this is disrespectful of others life-styles.

other then that, i have always done my best to respect your posts, and i know you have done the same for mine. it's only certain statments that are completly uncalledv for imo.

tampi
06-09-06, 00:08
Rather than getting into a philosophical debate over perception and extradimensional reality, I'm gonna just let you know that I'm using the generally officially accepted definitions of fact (http://www.answers.com/fact&r=67) and opinion (http://www.answers.com/opinion&r=67).
yes, but you cannot measure with the same twig the human and the divine, i thing

tampi
06-09-06, 00:12
and I mean that I am completely in agreement with....

just make sure you learn to love yourself and want yourself. thats the real key. dont run after an external person... wether boyfriend, friend, parent, or even an external god/belief.... because ultimatley all you really have is yourself... and if you can really love yourself and just be with yourself, without escaping into a book, movie, video game, party, religion etc, then you'll have managed to have tapped into something very powerful: you.

but very within me I know that there is something more

GodOfLight
06-09-06, 00:13
and I mean that I am completely in agreement with....



but very within me I know that there is something more

ah well... still... perhaps that "more" is you afterall ;)

tampi
06-09-06, 00:18
ah well... still... perhaps that "more" is you afterall ;)
perhaps, do you know it safe?

it is a pity because I am in evident inferiority of conditions due to the language

tampi
06-09-06, 00:25
Ok

you will have seen this photo...
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/233/czappinglucesmundochxt2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


and you will know the words “ I am the light of the world”, or “the way is the light” (2ooo years ago)

and when seeing this does not seem inevitably to you, that without knowing it, we go towards the light?

GodOfLight
06-09-06, 00:30
lol yes, that is an interesting point you make ;) but i think the "i am the light of the world" quote is meant to be understood metaphoric.. whereas that picture is our human electricity :p

but yes, i think we each need to be our own "light of the world" ;)

and back on topic with lavinder's thread: everyone seems so fixiated here on plugging up their loneliness with friends, people, lovers, god, movies, hugs etc etc... why not just plug up your inner emptiness with the only thing we all really ultimatley have: yourself! ;) because, you can never leave you ;)

tampi
06-09-06, 00:40
.... with the only thing we all really ultimatley have: yourself! ;) because, you can never leave you ;)



yes, for that reason I am in agreement with you.

but the light is light dear friend the same if it's electrical, of a candle, or the sun
the light of our interior the same, a slight oscillation of particles

GodOfLight
06-09-06, 00:48
yes, for that reason I am in agreement with you.

but the light is light dear friend the same if it's electrical, of a candle, or the sun
the light of our interior the same, a slight oscillation of particles

yes, but i dont think 'light' in that quote means 'light' as in candle, lamp, sun etc... i think it means enlightenments as in 'knowledge' 'wisdom'.. and one can have this enlightenment anywhere, even in total darkness with no candles or lamps or sun ;)

Geck-o-Lizard
06-09-06, 00:54
DAMN. Very long post. Sorry about this, but I got rolling and didn't want to stop.

yes, but you cannot measure with the same twig the human and the divine, i thing

This isn't a case of "the human and the divine", it's a case of what can be proved and what can't. It was Mel's theological opinion that she was posting as scientific fact, but facts require hard evidence to support them before they move past being educated guesses.

Also, I don't believe in "the divine" anyway, so what you're trying to say really makes very little sense whatsoever to me. How exactly would you explain and support your comments here, for example?

Water can be solid. Fact.--------------questionable
Fire is hot. Fact.-----------------------questionable
I am eating a packet of crisps. Fact.--------------questionable
If I get out my seat and jump up in the air, I'll fall back down again. Fact.------------questionable

Ice skating works because the water has been solidified. If the water was questionably solid, you couldn't skate, because it would be slush. We define "solid" as explained here (http://www.answers.com/solid&r=67), and we make that conclusion based on evidence within our senses - sight, touch, taste, sound, smell - rather than based on metaphysical guesswork and spirituality, where the definition is different for every person who experiences it. Where you may see a miracle, I may see a totally feasible coincidence.

If I put my finger into a flame, it will get burned with the heat. I feel the sensation of heat (before it destroys the nerve endings) and based on this and the pain, I conclude that the fire is, indeed. hot. I then go on to conclude that this is a factual property of fire, because all my friends also burn their fingers when they hold them over the flame.

I was eating a packet of crisps. I could taste and smell the artificial bacon flavouring, feel the rough texture in my fingers and on my tongue, I could see them in the packet, and I could hear them crunching when I chewed them. With other people experiencing the exact same phenomenons when given a packet of crisps to eat, I assume that I am, in fact, eating a packet of crisps, and not imagining it.

I just got out my chair and jumped, and surprse of surprises, I fell back down again. And since we're all still here attached by our feet and butts to the earth instead of floating about in space, I go on to assume that this is a factual property of the Earth, even if I don't know why it happens (I'm no physicist).

How are these questionable unless you're a Marvel superhero?:confused:

The Matrix is a good movie. Opinion.--------------questionable
Politicians are evil. Opinion.---------------------questionable
My religion is the only true one. Opinion.--------------questionable
I am going to Hell when I die if I disobey Christian morals. Opinion.-------------questionable

The Matrix is one of my favourite movies. But other people have seen it and disagreed with me. Some of them thought it was a crass attempt at a philosophical thriller. Other people loved it even more than I did. This totally mixed bag of experiences and the lack of any way to get hard evidence of my conclusion is what prevents this opinionated claim from being a fact. How do you get a universal definition of what a "good movie" is, when everybody likes different things?

I hate politicians with no small amount of venom. If there is a Hell, I'm quite sure it will be overflowing with all the politicians from over the years. But many people would fight me to the death over this statement, while others would be completely indifferent. It's not possible to say "politicians are good" or "politicians are bad" without there being another, totally valid counter-argument to whatever you say.

Everyone believes their own religion is the only "true" one. After all, why would they follow a religion if they thought it was false (unless they were deluded and knew it)? The simple fact that there are many different religions (fact = evidence to prove it = Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Sikkhism, and thousands upon thousands of other lesser religions...) makes it implausible to claim that any of them are correct. For all we know, there is a higher being, but it's so far beyond our human comprehension that there's no way we could even get so much of a whiff of him/her/it in our wildest of wild dreams. Without evidence to support any theological religion, none of them can claim to be true.

And the last one. "I am going to Hell when I die if I disobey Christian morals." This is an opinion of those who are very strong or fundamentalist believers in the teachings in the Bible, where the line between fact and opinion is blurred by myths, predictions and stories in their religion being told as absolute, unquestionable truth, despite the fact that no material evidence is ever provided to support these claims. In order to know about Hell you'd need to either have been there and returned - impossible, since Hell is for the dead, unless you're good friends with a skilled necromancer - or you'd need to have been told about it by someone else who had been there or knew about it. In this case, it's God who's doing the talking... but there's no material evidence to support the existence of God either, despite the fact that many Christians will argue that this lack of evidence is proof of God's existence, that the fact he's so determined not to let us know about him is how we know he's there.

I don't buy that.

I don't have a potato here on my desk, I can't see its brown skin or feel its rough texture, I can't smell the earthiness or taste its sourness, I can't hear it thud when I wave my hands about over the desk. I know exactly what a potato is like, and there is definitely no potato here. But if I had no idea what a potato was, I could easily be convinced that I have one here. Simply by being told that potatoes are invisible, can't be touched or tasted, can't be smelled or heard, and that the fact that none of my senses pick up the presense of anything here is the guarantee that there is, in fact, a potato on my desk, would be enough "material" evidence to convince me of this metaphysical tuber. Short of saying he's an invisible potato, that's as much as God means to me - he's something we truly know nothing about other than what we've been told or we're convinced we feel.

[last minute edit. :D ]

That thing about light is (and this is my opinion here) an evolutionary trait. Most humans are at most relatively uneasy about the dark (I'm definitely not a fan of dark rooms and night-time scenery), because back when we were cavepeople hunting for food with sharpened sticks, the dark was where all the big predatory animals would hunt. So we had to stay away from them at night by sleeping in our caves and staying hidden. In the daytime, we could make full use of all our senses (we rely mainly on our eyesight, that's why you behave so goofy if you get a blindfold put on) to avoid being eaten, and we could see what dangers were around us.

On the other hand there's the non-literal "intellectual illumination" that could be referred to here, as the speaker is offering to share his knowledge with his followers.

azumi_mm
06-09-06, 01:21
ok this is off topic but one thing i dont get bout ppl is. ya know when your feeling down right and your like oh i feel sorry for myself cause no ones tklin to me well wot i always so to myself is. if ya really wanted someone to talk to then wouldnt you make the first move instead of waiting for someone to come to you?

I think that's not so easy. If you are down alone you won't run around and talk to people you don't know.

azumi_mm
06-09-06, 01:39
everyone seems so fixiated here on plugging up their loneliness with friends, people, lovers, god, movies, hugs etc etc... why not just plug up your inner emptiness with the only thing we all really ultimatley have: yourself! ;)

Ok then I have myself. But I'm still feel lonely! and to be alone is boring... :( Especially when you go outside and see all the happy people, couples who are not alone. That only shows how isolated you are.

Neteru
06-09-06, 01:48
Blah, blah, blahOK, so I edited :D I've just one thing to say about valued scientific facts Geck. I've quoted it on forum before, and it is from one of my favourite tracks of a Yello album, Pocket Universe, from the last track 'The Universe Is Magic'.

There is no such thing as a definite fact of science ... Werner Heisenberg, the leading 20th Century physicist has stated that: "Mass is a physical interpretation of energy." ... Rupert Sheldrake, in his book: Seven Experiments That Could Change The World, has stated that: "Scientists' attitude towards their experiments, affect the results of their experiments."

OK so I lied too, I have more to say. :D

Therefor, the chair upon which you sit eating your crisps is not factually a chair. Rather, it is an interpretation. And we all know that an interpretation is an opinion. :)

azumi_mm
06-09-06, 01:52
You don't know how many times i've sat there and thought " What is wrong with me ?"


It's nothing wrong with you! The other people are just ****.



I've thought and thought. The only reason I can come up with is that i'm the kid thats always bullied, would you want to be seen with someone who is a 'freak' ?

Yes I would like to be seen with you! :) better to be a 'freak' than extreme conservative.

Neteru
06-09-06, 02:09
Lavinder, I was considered weird at school. Balls to them. So I was some kind of freak. Yippeee. Well thank god for that. Better be a freak that a sheep.

GodOfLight
06-09-06, 02:13
Lavinder, I was considered weird at school. Balls to them. So I was some kind of freak. Yippeee. Well thank god for that. Better be a freak that a sheep.

"Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heaven." ? :D

Geck-o-Lizard
06-09-06, 02:14
Therefor, the chair upon which you sit eating your crisps is not factually a chair. Rather, it is an interpretation. And we all know that an interpretation is an opinion. :)

Net, when you get into discussing the metaphysics of munching a bag of Wheat Crunchies, you've lost sight of the forest for all the trees. :cln:

When I'm talking about facts I'm referring to things that we all experience identically. Opinions are therefore where we all see the same thing, but we perceive it in different ways. Some people look at life and see a religious miracle, while others simply see a cosmic coincidence. But we all agree that we're alive. :D

Melonie Tomb Raider
06-09-06, 02:26
Well I'm sorry my beliefs offend you GoL...

GodOfLight
06-09-06, 02:55
once again you dont get it my dear. your beliefs do not offend me, because i am indifferent to your beliefs. it is the presentation of your beliefs that i find slightly offensive, becuase you seem to post your beliefs and opinions as hardcoded fact.

ILG49ers
06-09-06, 02:59
once again you dont get it my dear. your beliefs do not offend me, because i am indifferent to your beliefs. it is the presentation of your beliefs that i find slightly offensive, becuase you seem to post your beliefs and opinions as hardcoded fact.

So, you’re offended by the fact that she sincerely believes in what she believes in? :confused:

GodOfLight
06-09-06, 03:02
So, you’re offended by the fact that she sincerely believes in what she believes in? :confused:

i dont understand why you arent following me. her beliefs are fine. the fact that she sincerely believes in them is also perfectly fine and up to her.


what i find offensive is when it comes across as these beliefs being shoved down other peoples throats.

Melonie Tomb Raider
06-09-06, 03:10
once again you dont get it my dear. your beliefs do not offend me, because i am indifferent to your beliefs. it is the presentation of your beliefs that i find slightly offensive, becuase you seem to post your beliefs and opinions as hardcoded fact.

My beliefs were posted exactly how I believe them. I never tried to make anyone believe the way I do, I just posted my beliefs precisely how I believed them. Of course it's going to sound hardcore, because I truly believe it. There is not a single doibt in my mind, so I'm not going to convey something that isn't there.

You can go ahead and firmly post your beliefs with pure and utter confidence, I will not be offended.

Melonie Tomb Raider
06-09-06, 03:12
what i find offensive is when it comes across as these beliefs being shoved down other peoples throats.

Why is it "shoved down throats" when I post my opinon when that is what this thread is all about? So other people can post theirs with great passion and it be ok, but since mine are Christian they're shoved down your throat? Hmm...

DREWY
06-09-06, 03:16
Never be sorry for what you believe Mel (however you meant that). Your belief is your conviction. If someone doesn't want to read it then no-one forces them to do it. Not everything in life is tangible- that's why its a belief. Can you see the wind, or electricity. No, but you can see the result. They may not believe as you but they should respect your opinion.

Anywayzz. good to se you 'online' again

Melonie Tomb Raider
06-09-06, 03:17
Thank you Drewy, I really appreciate that. :hug:

GodOfLight
06-09-06, 03:18
Why is it "shoved down throats" when I post my opinon when that is what this thread is all about? So other people can post theirs with great passion and it be ok, but since mine are Christian they're shoved down your throat? Hmm...

i'm not posting anything near close to passion ;) my philosophy is very passionate and there is so much i havent posted here on it because it isn't in accord with the terms of agreement. it's a shame this forum is so sterilized in many ways... but that's the way it is.

Melonie Tomb Raider
06-09-06, 03:23
i'm not posting anything near close to passion ;) my philosophy is very passionate and there is so much i havent posted here on it because it isn't in accord with the terms of agreement. it's a shame this forum is so sterilized in many ways... but that's the way it is.

Well nobody is stopping you from posting philosophies that you are passionate about. Just because you don't doesn't mean it's wrong for anyone else to. I am still within the T&C, a moderator even stuck up for me.

Opinions were asked for in this topic, why is it wrong that I shared mine? Because you don't agree with it? Sounds like it to me, you've yet to have a problem with anyone else who have been equally as passionate about the subject as I have.

I don't know why you have an issue with christianity, but I'd appreciate it if you'd get off my back about it.

GodOfLight
06-09-06, 03:29
Well nobody is stopping you from posting philosophies that you are passionate about. Just because you don't doesn't mean it's wrong for anyone else to. I am still within the T&C, a moderator even stuck up for me.

Opinions were asked for in this topic, why is it wrong that I shared mine? Because you don't agree with it? Sounds like it to me, you've yet to have a problem with anyone else who have been equally as passionate about the subject as I have.

I don't know why you have an issue with christianity, but I'd appreciate it if you'd get off my back about it.

i dont have an issue about christianity. please quote were i say something against christianity. you are twisting my words melonie. once again: the issue is not your beliefs, it is stating your beliefs as dogmatic fact. i am not on your back melonie nor do i have any problems with your beliefs. as i said, it is the presentation of your beliefs as fact that i personally dontl ike because there are so many beliefs in this world. so, where do i say something against christianity? nowhere. i have no issues with christians, i have many close christian friends aswell, and therefore do not feel biased about the belief system one bit.

DREWY
06-09-06, 03:35
While respecting both sides here we are drifting away from the topic, which to me is almost a cry for help.

Have you ever felt that you just wake up, do work, go home then go to sleep.
No one really cares if you are there or not, yeah people say hello but then they are busy with everyone else?

I know, I know one can't expect to have full attension from everyone etc. But would it not be nice to feel wanted or loved?
Sometimes I feel it's all just pointless, only living to live.


Thats not living. To me that is surviving.

Melonie Tomb Raider
06-09-06, 03:37
Well like Drewy said, if you have a problem, don't read my post. If I offend you that much then why am I not on your ignore list? You don't have to read it, no one is making you.

If a moderator says it's ok, then I feel comforted in knowing that I've still remained within the T&C. Everyone else have voiced their opinions, as I've stated before, just as passionately as I have. I'm not being dogmatic, I'm stating my beliefs. They're my own, I'm allowed to believe that way and I'm allowed to express it. Notice you're the only one who had a problem with it?

I'm sorry that I've offended you, because I would never want to do that; however, if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have changed a single word I said.

GodOfLight
06-09-06, 03:43
Well like Drewy said, if you have a problem, don't read my post. If I offend you that much then why am I not on your ignore list? You don't have to read it, no one is making you.

If a moderator says it's ok, then I feel comforted in knowing that I've still remained within the T&C. Everyone else have voiced their opinions, as I've stated before, just as passionately as I have. I'm not being dogmatic, I'm stating my beliefs. They're my own, I'm allowed to believe that way and I'm allowed to express it. Notice you're the only one who had a problem with it?

I'm sorry that I've offended you, because I would never want to do that; however, if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have changed a single word I said.

you still dont seem to be reading what i've been posting :rolleyes: oh well, let it be over and done with now...

Neteru
06-09-06, 04:03
Net, when you get into discussing the metaphysics of munching a bag of Wheat Crunchies, you've lost sight of the forest for all the trees. :cln:

With respect Gecko, I haven't lost sight of anything. I'm perfectly clear on what I'm saying and why it is absolutely relevant to your posting. You brought up the chair and crisps (and other things) and the nature of their reality as facts. ;)

When I'm talking about facts I'm referring to things that we all experience identically. Opinions are therefore where we all see the same thing, but we perceive it in different ways.

I know exactly what you're saying, but you have missed (or don't want to look at) my point. What you accept as a fact is open to challenge. Science is absolutely not the arbiter of what is real.

You seem to have a love of scientific fact, and a detestation of spititual or metaphysical "guesswork". I have above quoted a scientist to you, who, speaking in 'scientific fact', with his breadth of scientific knowledge, tells you that "Mass is a physical interpretation of energy." It's looking like this is a scientific fact you don't want to accept Gecko, and would rather dismiss as metaphysical guesswork.

interstellardave
06-09-06, 04:10
Mere terminology separates most people from understanding one another. It's the religious/spiritual equivalent of a language barrier. What the ancient mystics accepted as fact--and many modern thinkers have rediscovered--is that consciousness is ALL there is. What Jesus would say is essentially the same: "the kingdom of God is everywhere, but Man doesn't see it."

It's just a change of perspective really. Don't argue in a box; throw off the veil and view everything--"reality" itself--from a different perspective. A perspective that can put all debate on a common ground.

Originally Posted by Geck-o-Lizard
When I'm talking about facts I'm referring to things that we all experience identically. Opinions are therefore where we all see the same thing, but we perceive it in different ways.


Shared reality is as malleable and impermanent as individual reality. It has no more validity than "opinion".

Heh, heh... it's late but I'm not really rambling... there's food for thought here!

DREWY
06-09-06, 04:16
MMM. People can argue when they are actually agreeing Dave

(btw Love BS4, especially Snowblind)

Neteru
06-09-06, 04:20
consciousness is ALL there is. ... Shared reality is as malleable and impermanent as individual reality. It has no more validity than "opinion".Hear, hear!

Melonie Tomb Raider
06-09-06, 04:43
oh well, let it be over and done with now...

Sounds good to me. :)

Jacob x5
06-09-06, 04:45
Hmm. It would seem that I've missed something. :cln:

Geck-o-Lizard
06-09-06, 07:47
stuff

I'm not denying or ignoring the quote. I feel it's too abstract to apply to everyday situations; inappropriate, even. What would you think if the justice sysem decided to merge fact and opinion since the universe is technically just a matrix of vibrating energy?

Taleigha
06-09-06, 08:41
yeah. its sad, but true. nobody cares. not just about you, but nobody cares about anybody else, except themselves.

i wish i had some words of comfort but its mostly the truth. i learned to deal with feeling like that.

the only reassuring thing is that probz 99% of other people feel the same way you do, Lav.

periwinkle
06-09-06, 11:11
I guess there's not much more to add to all those previous posts. But I wanted to tell you something, Lavinder - you WILL find your own way through this ;) I'm sure. Just like most of you I've also felt this way but I made new friends and discovered new people and now life doesn't seem that bad :) Just don't pity yourself.. ever! That's probably half the effort you've got to make to become a happy person.
And, as stupid as it may sound, I believe in fate. One day you'll meet people who will want to be your friends and will appreciate your company :)
P.S. In the spirit of previous posts - who defines what a freak is? :P I don't know and I couldn't care less, but I know who defines what "happy" is - you ;)

tampi
06-09-06, 14:58
WOW :eek: :cln: :)
I must read :( :D







...but... to be making mouth, I would like to know what bushman thinks of a chair

Quiver.
06-09-06, 15:01
Sometimes I feel it's all just pointless, only living to live.

you know.....thats exactly how I feel last weeks...

Angelx14
06-09-06, 15:06
Have you ever felt that you just wake up, do work, go home then go to sleep.
No one really cares if you are there or not, yeah people say hello but then they are busy with everyone else?

I know, I know one can't expect to have full attension from everyone etc. But would it not be nice to feel wanted or loved?
Sometimes I feel it's all just pointless, only living to live.
Yes. Just like now..:(

I'm feel so lonely..No-one wants to hug me, and I'm just sitting in here and whining..

Thorn
06-09-06, 15:09
Life may see like it is. Set yourself new goals and activities. :)

Lavinder
06-09-06, 15:15
Good news guys (if you care).

Today has been much much better, everyone has been totally welcome etc etc. Even getting people whom usually hate me ask me questions, with manners!!

The only thing that has put my day down is that i'm in a maths group for really thick (sorry) people. All my other friends who got level 6 are in a good group, I was one ****ing mark from level 6.

The first questions was "how many sides does a triangle have". :eek:

:'( And they said we only have a chance of getting C - F grades :(

jarhead
06-09-06, 15:25
Good news guys (if you care).

Today has been much much better, everyone has been totally welcome etc etc. Even getting people whom usually hate me ask me questions, with manners!!

The only thing that has put my day down is that i'm in a maths group for really thick (sorry) people. All my other friends who got level 6 are in a good group, I was one ****ing mark from level 6.

The first questions was "how many sides does a triangle have". :eek:

:'( And they said we only have a chance of getting C - F grades :(


errr well i supose thats good news-the top part that is

oh well today i found out i was one mark of getting an A for IT GCSE so yer i feel gutted but oh well, and you can always improve and get moved up

saray
06-09-06, 15:26
it sucks that your in that group... :( i dont know whos in mine yet but im in top set for history and french so far... SH..UGAR!!! :( mr page scared me..

tampi
06-09-06, 17:41
DAMN. Very long post. Sorry about this, but I got rolling and didn't want to stop.



This isn't a case of "the human and the divine", it's a case of what can be proved and what can't. It was Mel's theological opinion that she was posting as scientific fact, but facts require hard evidence to support them before they move past being educated guesses.

Also, I don't believe in "the divine" anyway, so what you're trying to say really makes very little sense whatsoever to me. How exactly would you explain and support your comments here, for example?



Ice skating works because the water has been solidified. If the water was questionably solid, you couldn't skate, because it would be slush. We define "solid" as explained here (http://www.answers.com/solid&r=67), and we make that conclusion based on evidence within our senses - sight, touch, taste, sound, smell - rather than based on metaphysical guesswork and spirituality, where the definition is different for every person who experiences it. Where you may see a miracle, I may see a totally feasible coincidence.

If I put my finger into a flame, it will get burned with the heat. I feel the sensation of heat (before it destroys the nerve endings) and based on this and the pain, I conclude that the fire is, indeed. hot. I then go on to conclude that this is a factual property of fire, because all my friends also burn their fingers when they hold them over the flame.

I was eating a packet of crisps. I could taste and smell the artificial bacon flavouring, feel the rough texture in my fingers and on my tongue, I could see them in the packet, and I could hear them crunching when I chewed them. With other people experiencing the exact same phenomenons when given a packet of crisps to eat, I assume that I am, in fact, eating a packet of crisps, and not imagining it.

I just got out my chair and jumped, and surprse of surprises, I fell back down again. And since we're all still here attached by our feet and butts to the earth instead of floating about in space, I go on to assume that this is a factual property of the Earth, even if I don't know why it happens (I'm no physicist).

How are these questionable unless you're a Marvel superhero?:confused:



The Matrix is one of my favourite movies. But other people have seen it and disagreed with me. Some of them thought it was a crass attempt at a philosophical thriller. Other people loved it even more than I did. This totally mixed bag of experiences and the lack of any way to get hard evidence of my conclusion is what prevents this opinionated claim from being a fact. How do you get a universal definition of what a "good movie" is, when everybody likes different things?

I hate politicians with no small amount of venom. If there is a Hell, I'm quite sure it will be overflowing with all the politicians from over the years. But many people would fight me to the death over this statement, while others would be completely indifferent. It's not possible to say "politicians are good" or "politicians are bad" without there being another, totally valid counter-argument to whatever you say.

Everyone believes their own religion is the only "true" one. After all, why would they follow a religion if they thought it was false (unless they were deluded and knew it)? The simple fact that there are many different religions (fact = evidence to prove it = Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Sikkhism, and thousands upon thousands of other lesser religions...) makes it implausible to claim that any of them are correct. For all we know, there is a higher being, but it's so far beyond our human comprehension that there's no way we could even get so much of a whiff of him/her/it in our wildest of wild dreams. Without evidence to support any theological religion, none of them can claim to be true.

And the last one. "I am going to Hell when I die if I disobey Christian morals." This is an opinion of those who are very strong or fundamentalist believers in the teachings in the Bible, where the line between fact and opinion is blurred by myths, predictions and stories in their religion being told as absolute, unquestionable truth, despite the fact that no material evidence is ever provided to support these claims. In order to know about Hell you'd need to either have been there and returned - impossible, since Hell is for the dead, unless you're good friends with a skilled necromancer - or you'd need to have been told about it by someone else who had been there or knew about it. In this case, it's God who's doing the talking... but there's no material evidence to support the existence of God either, despite the fact that many Christians will argue that this lack of evidence is proof of God's existence, that the fact he's so determined not to let us know about him is how we know he's there.

I don't buy that.

I don't have a potato here on my desk, I can't see its brown skin or feel its rough texture, I can't smell the earthiness or taste its sourness, I can't hear it thud when I wave my hands about over the desk. I know exactly what a potato is like, and there is definitely no potato here. But if I had no idea what a potato was, I could easily be convinced that I have one here. Simply by being told that potatoes are invisible, can't be touched or tasted, can't be smelled or heard, and that the fact that none of my senses pick up the presense of anything here is the guarantee that there is, in fact, a potato on my desk, would be enough "material" evidence to convince me of this metaphysical tuber. Short of saying he's an invisible potato, that's as much as God means to me - he's something we truly know nothing about other than what we've been told or we're convinced we feel.

[last minute edit. :D ]

That thing about light is (and this is my opinion here) an evolutionary trait. Most humans are at most relatively uneasy about the dark (I'm definitely not a fan of dark rooms and night-time scenery), because back when we were cavepeople hunting for food with sharpened sticks, the dark was where all the big predatory animals would hunt. So we had to stay away from them at night by sleeping in our caves and staying hidden. In the daytime, we could make full use of all our senses (we rely mainly on our eyesight, that's why you behave so goofy if you get a blindfold put on) to avoid being eaten, and we could see what dangers were around us.

On the other hand there's the non-literal "intellectual illumination" that could be referred to here, as the speaker is offering to share his knowledge with his followers.

Sorry all.


First of all I must say, that I was one of first reading this thread when Lavinder put it.

I meant to him, yes, thus is.
But I didn't say anything.
Soon, when the thread took the religious slope or from the bad treatments
I decided to put that idea.
We really lived most of the life, simply living it, like robots. It is easiest.
Thinking about all those heavy things about our existence, what embarrassment to reach conclusions!!
The planet is worse than a game to Ages of Empires in the end, are no trees, are no food...



Ok again.


Everything what I have said is an unquestionable opinion

Gek-o we are going to watch it everything from a scientific point of view.
we are going to give like good the words of the dictionary.
now I ask to you, really exists “the solid”? the answer is, NO
Matter in the universe does not exist that can be considered absolutely solid since it is impossible to us to reach the zero absolute.
for that reason I said: if the man is the measurement of all the things, yes.
But we leave that to a side, you have reason. Everything what I have said is a simple opinion.
You say the truth.
The world has been a planet turning around the Sun (was known short time ago, scientifically)
and we are the simple evolution of the matter of the planet.
This matter of the planet (the human being) has arrived where we are now. Is a fact.
This matter of the planet (the human being) has dominated and molded the matter surrounding. Is a fact.
This matter of the planet (the human being) has been able to order by “similarity” the surrounding matter. Is a fact.
This matter of the planet (the human being) has created light transforming the matter. Is a fact.
bla bla bla, returning to the photo and the thread that Lavinder put.
This matter of the planet, not only lives to live or to survive
Or indeed for that reason, to live and to survive
This matter of the planet has caused that, the fact, agrees with the writing does 2000 years, I think.
Because the scientific alternative that happens to me when I see our streets, our houses, our world, at this moment is

That simply we are volcanos almost extinguished, removing lava from the interior of the planet and making it circulate around the streets of our cities in form of vehicles,
devastating forests, harvest the planet, effect conservatory, melting of the poles,
increase of the globe temperature of waters, tidal waves, earthquakes, wars, cruelty, firearms, films with firings,
our eyes have too many times the fire reflected in them, the television screens the screens of the PC,
the tobacco burning to us on the inside, the smoke of the exhaust pipes burning to us on the inside,…
But not only that, but also that now we touched our DNA, that infinite twisted stairs that come from the first man,
that matter of the planet. That matter of the planet becoming thus same. What you say to me?
Is that the reality? Is that the true? The scientific truth? In fact?
I want to return to the poetry. To the dream.
And to think that all that is our destiny until perhaps turning to us within million years something more than this simple matter.




But if we unite this conversation with other threads that I have had the opportunity to see in this time in the forum,
like for example the religion good or bad , to favor or against the capital punishment, bad treatments, death of well-known people, laughter many laughter
I'm not none marvel cómic, I understand perfectly the feelings of much people of this chat.
I also have been young, and have thought and cried by those things.
And I have cried too much seeing the planet like was.
I wanted to paint and I was with the colors (that rainbow) in front of my full eyes of tears.
And that I did? , to read, to investigate, to look for,…. THE WHY?
That is all

The conclusion: there are two ways (two forms to think) but a single destiny . I humbly think

CerebralAssassin
06-09-06, 18:39
can we leave religion out of this thread please? :rolleyes:

jackles
06-09-06, 18:40
Good news guys (if you care).

Today has been much much better, everyone has been totally welcome etc etc. Even getting people whom usually hate me ask me questions, with manners!!

The only thing that has put my day down is that i'm in a maths group for really thick (sorry) people. All my other friends who got level 6 are in a good group, I was one ****ing mark from level 6.

The first questions was "how many sides does a triangle have". :eek:

:'( And they said we only have a chance of getting C - F grades :(


What Jared replied to you here is correct ( i couldnt seem to get both quotes! sorry!) is correct! if you do well your teaches will move you up...because they want to get as many good gcse grades as possible so hang on in there and wait and see how it goes. :)

Plus feeling miserable is really part of being a teen sadly all those blooming hormones and stuff can make you feel life is just dead and flat and not worth getting out of bed for...however the good new is when you get a bit older and life gets a bit more about earning cash you tend to cheer up a bit....now i know thats no help at all at the mo but remember this...each day is just one day and have to be taken one day at a time and while as a whole it may seem pointless there are loads of people who care and take time to think about you.

Lavinder
06-09-06, 18:53
What Jared replied to you here is correct ( i couldnt seem to get both quotes! sorry!) is correct! if you do well your teaches will move you up...because they want to get as many good gcse grades as possible so hang on in there and wait and see how it goes. :)

Plus feeling miserable is really part of being a teen sadly all those blooming hormones and stuff can make you feel life is just dead and flat and not worth getting out of bed for...however the good new is when you get a bit older and life gets a bit more about earning cash you tend to cheer up a bit....now i know thats no help at all at the mo but remember this...each day is just one day and have to be taken one day at a time and while as a whole it may seem pointless there are loads of people who care and take time to think about you.

Thank you, your words are kind :):hug:

Woah, I never thought that this would turn in to a religiony thread :o

Neteru
06-09-06, 19:41
I'm not denying or ignoring the quote. I feel it's too abstract to apply to everyday situations; inappropriate, even. What would you think if the justice sysem decided to merge fact and opinion since the universe is technically just a matrix of vibrating energy?OK, I understand what you're saying Gecko. There is a general agreement between people upon what is real, what is fact. We all agree a chair is a chair, blue is blue, etc. etc. so on and so forth. Such a thing is required to function in life. I'm merely pointing out that what is generally agreed as a fact, isn't a fact. As to your proposed scenario. It would be rather interesting I think, and force everyone to think about tha nature of reality. Something much required in many people I think.

Oh, and I liked your edit of my quote. 'stuff' :D

Geck-o-Lizard
06-09-06, 19:44
As to your proposed scenario. It would be rather interesting I think, and force everyone to think about tha nature of reality. Something much required in many people I think.

Well, it would let me get away with a whole heck of a lot of stuff. My lawyer would just have to say "that evidence is false!" and there would be no way to prove otherwise. I could tear the faces off of all the people who've ever bullied me or any of my friends. (There, loopback to the topic.) :jmp:

Oh, and I liked your edit of my quote. 'stuff' :D

Right back at ya. :cln:

Ward Dragon
06-09-06, 23:02
The only thing that has put my day down is that i'm in a maths group for really thick (sorry) people. All my other friends who got level 6 are in a good group, I was one ****ing mark from level 6.

The first questions was "how many sides does a triangle have". :eek:

:'( And they said we only have a chance of getting C - F grades :(

That's just not right. Is there any way you can convince the teacher, or guidance counselor, or somebody with power, to put you into the higher math class? It certainly sounds like you deserve to be there :)



Well, it would let me get away with a whole heck of a lot of stuff. My lawyer would just have to say "that evidence is false!" and there would be no way to prove otherwise. I could tear the faces off of all the people who've ever bullied me or any of my friends. (There, loopback to the topic.) :jmp:



But then there'd be nothing to stop anyone else from tearing your face off :eek:

This whole argument, off topic though it might be, was very interesting to read with all of the different perspectives on reality :)

Nephili
07-09-06, 06:18
I've just read the whole of this thread, and my advice to you Lavinder is to try your hardest to ignore these people who bring you down!

When I was at school, I got bullied for years and years, except I took the coward's way out, instead of standing up to these people, or ignoring them, I just started skipping school, which ultimately resulted in myself not being able to take some exams, and i ended up with poor grades.

I'm not saying your going to do that, but do not, its not worth it in the long run.

You don't know how many times i've sat there and thought " What is wrong with me ?"

I've thought and thought. The only reason I can come up with is that i'm the kid thats always bullied, would you want to be seen with someone who is a 'freak' ?

You are not a freak in anyway shape or form. Just because these shallow, loser's label you that, does not mean its true. They dont know you, or anything about you. You should'nt even waste your breath on them.

Stick with your friends for the rest of school, don't worry about making new friends just yet, you can do all that when you get to College. And as I think Geck said earlier, College is where you will meet nice, new and interesting people.

Try to keep your head up high, and try not to let these people get you :wve: