How can they make Tomb Raider 8 easy and hard? [Archive]

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illuminati30

17-09-06, 16:28

I am sure Crystal Dynamics must be sick to the back teeth of hearing that Legend was too easy and not long enough, and lets face it, that’s the truth! (unless they choose to ignore these complaints :D )

So how can they please hardcore gamers and casual gamers with the next instalment?

Basically, keep the binoculars and the headset.

The binoculars are key here. If you get really stuck, then these can be used to work out which objects can be interacted with and which things move. The alternative is to leave them off and work it out for ourselves. Crystal Dynamics were really onto something here, but how often did we need to use the binoculars? Never! Because Zip and Alistair were too busy yapping in our ears.

Now for the head set. Many people hated it (myself included) in that it ruined the game and spoiled the atmosphere and gave to many things away. However, this could be the key to the return to challenging game play we all want. Crystal could give us games with the same trials and difficulty of the old games, and have the headset. The headset must me OFF AT ALL TIMES, BUT if the player gets stuck, they can contact Zip and Alistair to find out where to go? (Would this be too hard to implement/program?) This is like an on tap walk through. This way the casual gamer does not get frustrated and the help is there if needed. The problem with Legend is that we did not have that option.

Doctorb

17-09-06, 16:45

Bring back Keys and objects........bring it back in line with an action adventure game rather than a action game with a small pinch of adventure.

Yuna´s Wish

17-09-06, 16:52

Cd did a fantastic Graphic job. They´ll have to go backwards though. Take some effects away and put something in place of that thing. Take graphics and put traps and parts of the level.

Lleonard Pler

17-09-06, 17:06

xMiSsCrOfTx

17-09-06, 17:15

Or just make some real differences between easy & hard modes.

In hard mode, you won't have any support. It will be like the old games. Only Lara on her own. No headset, no binoculars, no permanent lightsource.

I agree with you, we should have some varying differences between the modes of difficulty. Cute avatar, btw. :D

da tomb raider!

17-09-06, 17:22

Well, all I can suggust is that they bring back the keys and locked doors (So players spend a LITTLE time (Not too much, though) finding keys to unlock doors), opponents with at least a BIT of skill and logic, some death-traps, along with some checkpoints which trigger SOMETIMES, not all of the time, so if a player dies thanks to a death-trap, he/she won't be too far off from where he "checked out", and most importantly, bring back some exploration into the game, thus keeping the player busy, exploration the place, while seeking some HIDDEN secrets.

Blackmoor

17-09-06, 17:39

Well they can try by having an easy option and a hard option like Legend.

Making enemies take more hits to kill and switching on/off help aids like auto-grab, shiny patches, on screen hints and so on. They can also have 2 tiers of puzzle difficulty like Silent Hill does...

That can only go so far though. And personally, the type of difficulty I'm looking for in Tomb Raider is something that I don't think you can balance out easily into easy/hard mode.

I want the difficulty to be in the exploring - difficult to see where to go next and difficult to get there. And that just conflicts with easy-to-get-around, just-push-this-stick mode of play.

Maybe - they could have a complex twisty level (like old-style TR) but have direction arrows in easy mode. And then have 2 options of controls:

1. Auto-control mode

Auto-grab, never miss jumps, last chance grabs, safety grabs...

2. Manual control mode

Re-instate X button for grabs, and have no auto-grab or safety grabs, and have 3 different jump "strengths" dependant on whether Lara's walking, standing or running.

Maybe that kind of thing would work....

konichi-wa

17-09-06, 18:00

make puzzles harder and killing enemys easy

Mona Sax

17-09-06, 18:06

I'm in favor of giving players more control over how much help they want. I.e. keep the hints, headset, auto-grab, binocs etc. for those who want/need them, but let us decide when we want to use them. It would be the easiest thing in the world to create an on/off option for those things in the options menu (or in case of the headset, let the player request help in-game by calling Zip & Alister).

Slick

17-09-06, 18:59

thevman

18-09-06, 10:55

This is one topic where I believe the originals had it perfectly, ONE difficulty level, hard challenging.....satisfying. If you can't handle it then Tomb Raider just aint your game. We never had a choice of how hard we had it and I dont like having an option. So go back to the way of the originals.

Now your talking slick! :tmb: TR isn't meant to be easy. Lose the headset, binoculars, on screen hints, interactive cutscenes, shiney object, and the grapple for that matter. Make it hard to traverse, to figure out where to go. Getting stuck and then having to solve the problem is part of TR. All these other things make it too easy and take away any challenge in the game, lose them, period.... never to be seen again in a TR game. :D That would make me happy. :mis:

Mona Sax

18-09-06, 13:41

Now your talking slick! :tmb: TR isn't meant to be easy. Lose the headset, binoculars, on screen hints, interactive cutscenes, shiney object, and the grapple for that matter. Make it hard to traverse, to figure out where to go. Getting stuck and then having to solve the problem is part of TR. All these other things make it too easy and take away any challenge in the game, lose them, period.... never to be seen again in a TR game. :D That would make me happy. :mis:
I agree in as far as Legend was too easy for me, too. Therefore I'd rather not use the on-screen hints, flashing objects, headset, grapple etc. But I don't see why people who like it easier shouldn't have those things as long as we get the option to switch them off. Catering to everybody can only be better than ignoring a part of the fanbase (and we have to face it, a lot of TR's fanbase are people who've only played Legend, whether we like it or not). Ditching Legend's innovations is going to **** off Legend fans while making TR8 exactly like Legend is not going to sit well with TR die-hards. If they can give everybody what they want, why not?

thepetemaster

18-09-06, 14:10

I liked what happened in the DMC series - it started on normal difficulty, and if the game noticed the player dying alot at the start it would offer the switch to 'easy' mode.

thevman

18-09-06, 15:01

I agree in as far as Legend was too easy for me, too. Therefore I'd rather not use the on-screen hints, flashing objects, headset, grapple etc. But I don't see why people who like it easier shouldn't have those things as long as we get the option to switch them off. Catering to everybody can only be better than ignoring a part of the fanbase (and we have to face it, a lot of TR's fanbase are people who've only played Legend, whether we like it or not). Ditching Legend's innovations is going to **** off Legend fans while making TR8 exactly like Legend is not going to sit well with TR die-hards. If they can give everybody what they want, why not?

I can live with that, just give us a way to shut all those things off. That was kind of what I was hoping the hard setting on legend was going to do.

Airave

20-09-06, 19:53

The old games kept me involved for months,
not days. And I never got bored. Frustrated, Yes!,
but the joy of finally breaking through! Yeah.

I don't think TR should be an "easy" game.

shaahinkaaveh

20-09-06, 22:52

I made a thread called "Will there be a compromise?" and one thing I wanted to be discussed was the subject of this thread, but it seems I'm not good at explaining what I mean? But eventually I was readier to accept that there will be no compromise!

Many on/off options could be made, and I guess I'm not against it. There shouldn't be any problem for them to implement that, and I wonder why they didn't do so with Legend. But there remains two considerations:

Psychological consideration: Some aspects of the game can't be switched on/off, they are either present in the game, or absent, you can't choose them freely: the feeling, the speed of the game, the music.
Apart from that, what shall they do with level design? A lot of difficulty in previous TRs was due to its design. For example: You need to make a special sequence of jumps, no headset or binoculars will help you do that. You have to beat the spirit of brother Obscura, and the problem isn't only the figure-out puzzle behind it, but the action itself, so no hint will help here. I don't think they're going to change the architecture according to difficulty mode.
Philosophical consideration: The whole event irritates me. Like many other things in the modern life and society, this represents a type of "identity-loss". What is admirable in making a compromise between two essentially different things? Wasn't it better to let the games represent the spirit and taste of their players?
It's not about appreciating one type of tastes and undervaluing others. It's about "identity". If a sequel of a shooter game suddenly chooses a new direction and introduces a lot of adventure, I'll regret in the same way. I don't like such a thing.
-Ambitous nonsense of course. What the hell is this guy talking about? Money - the balance guardian of this worlds hates such peoms.

Gamer901

21-09-06, 05:26

illuminati30

21-09-06, 10:26

I think to do this, they need to make two seperate difficulty levels, one for Casual gamers and one for us Tomb Raider Vets. In easy, Have auto grab, the headset, Light, and give tips, basically, for Tomb Raider newbies.On hard make it like the old games. Have nothing that's featured on easy, make the puzzles A LOT (and I mean A LOT) harder, make the enemies smarter and scarier, and make secrets harder to find. We could also have a medium difficulty too.

Yeah, although I actually hate when the hard setting on a game just means the enemies will be harder to kill. That is basically the way of it with Legend. I just find that more annoying than anything. I don’t know what I was expecting when playing hard level on Tomb Raider, but it wasn’t this.

A more difficult game would be better, but I really don't want them to do this by just making the enemies harder to kill. Could end up with a game just like Legend, just with enemies who wont fall, and how annoying would that be?

Shark_Blade

21-09-06, 10:30

illuminati30

21-09-06, 11:41

^I agreed illuminati. that kind of hard game doesn't make the game good. It's the level designs and how they implement the enemies that suit the nature of the environemnt that makes tomb raider special.
not just some mercs with grenades

Thanks, and also the thing about the secrets being harder to find. That’s ok I guess, but these are just a side line to the game. When I was playing the old games, I didn’t particularly go looking for them. If I found a secret then that was all well and good. They were a nice addition, but the gameplay offered lots, so there was no burning desire to find them all. The burning desire was to just play the game and get through it.

The secrets are a nice addition to a game, but just that, an additional extra. They should never make up the entire gameplay. That’s just really wrong. The gameplay should be long enough, and challenging enough without having to hunt them, but have the secrets there for those who enjoy looking for them, cause its not everyones bag.

EDIT: To be fair to Gamer901 though, i know you suggested other things, and not just these two things. Nice ideas :tmb:

petujaymz

21-09-06, 16:00

TRBeth

21-09-06, 22:22

In my eyes, CD has already won half the battle. They have a game that is virtually glitch-free, with a fluid, mobile Lara that feels real. The fluidness of Legend is part of what makes Legend "easy". When we want to move Lara, a quick nod on the controls moves her exactly and precisely; there is not an awkward clockwise turning as in days of old, no back step to make a jump, line-ups to move.

CD made it happen and should pat themselves on the back. Physical movement within the game should not be hard and with today's hardware and know-how, its not.

What should be the so-called "hard" part, l like to call it challenging, is what is happening in the game. Lara is an archaeologist. Finding things, piecing clues together, locating things, figuring things out should have a challenge to it; but not a totally uphill battle. Its tricky to achieve this without turning off your average gamer because they have to play with a walk-though by their side. But this will be CD's challenge, if they are up for it. Its not fun to see interactive movies, or press keys in the direction of the arrows on the screen. WE, the gamer, should be working through the challenge that is offered in the game, not have it done for us. Environments should be opened up for exploration, not a limited hallway or room where there are on few game-play options and the actions and discoveries occur in movies.

CD needs to take the challenge, and take the good that was in Legend to make this game suburb.

ben croft

22-09-06, 11:48

- The less hints on screen, the better. Gamers must find out where to go, what to do next.
- No shiny objects...
- Zip and Alister: they should not talk all the time... things like "hey, you see the turrent down the hall... be careful". Nothing like this in the final game.

:wve:

petujaymz

22-09-06, 16:23

Make a classic TR for the hardcore fans and Lego Tomb Raider for the numpties.

:wve:

tizerist

23-09-06, 23:42

firstly, i have never played legend, and judging by this talk i dont think i ever will.

headsets and advice?
one of the series early strengths was the fact that she had no help. You're deep, deep underground, you're lost and you're alone.
that was brilliant.

shiny "helpful" sections?
oh, pur-lease. thats just insulting.

10 hours gameplay?
that would have been the length of an old TR level first time through....

theres only one thing wrong with the classic tomb raiders, and that was the awkward animation (walking into brick walls with no reaction, turning circle of a robot, etc)

also give me a TR with no fighting in it and i wont shed a tear whatsoever. (might shed a cheer though)

bring back expansive levels.
the "where next?" part of the game made it the success it is today.

this will never happen though.
i'm destined to play custom levels for ever i reckon.

raiderfun

24-09-06, 00:18

More suplex places :jmp: :jmp: :jmp:

dragoness_crysta

06-10-06, 10:05

make it hard....

petujaymz

06-10-06, 13:41

Crank up the difficulty by...

1 - Removing shiny objects.

2 - Remove ALL puzzle solving pointers from A&Z (though I actually enjoyed A&Z's banter). In previous installments, the trial and error nature of puzzle solving and relying on your own general knowledge, common sense, previous TR experience and intuition was excellent.

3 - Increase enemy health.

4 - Mind boggling, construed puzzles of a TR1 - TR4 standard.

5 - Include plenty of 'Pick Up & Play' elements to keep gaming numpties happy and increase sales.

6 - Real time objectives, that upon failure Lara must find an alternate route/solution...........I know what I mean.

7 - Limited Ammunition, even for the dual pistols. Were this introduced, hand to hand combat would need improvements.

:wve: