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Joseph
16-10-06, 21:02
I updated my list of games that work/won't work on Vista RC2 with
Catalyst® Beta Display Driver for Windows Vista RTM (32 bit)Version: 8.31.100.3.2.1 -- Date: Dec. 13, 2006 (see Release Notes (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1292091&postcount=179)),
nVidia Windows Vista x86 RC2 (http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_96.85.html) (see Release Notes - 96.85 (http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/96.85/96.85_ForceWare_WinVista_Release_Notes.pdf))
Creative X-Fi Beta for Vista driver (http://www.asia.creative.com/support/downloads/download.asp?MainCategory=209&nRegionFK=&nCountryFK=&nLanguageFK=&sOSName=Windows+Vista+32-bit&region=2&Product_Name=X-Fi+Platinum&Product_ID=14065&modelnumber=&driverlang=1033&OS=26&drivertype=0&x=22&y=10) v.2.13.0001 28 Dec 06 (see Release Notes (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1286781&postcount=142))
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy series Vista Beta driver (see Release notes (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1295021&postcount=6)).
Update: For Vista / X-Fi users: Creative ALchemy Project (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1597260&postcount=268)


Note that:

I am only testing the Single Player functions.
I recommend the Vista Sidebar to be (temporarily) disabled. Just close it, you can return it later by clicking on the tray icon.
Most recent Creative X-Fi Beta for Vista and Audigy Beta for Vista drivers are only basic functional. In the games that offer 3D sound and EAX in their settings-options (and not have them greyed out automatically): don't touch those options. Leave the sound at default, be glad you have sound at all.
After each game installation i defragment both the OS- and Games partition. Inbuilt Vista defragger is extremely slow (as on XP) so this required a reboot to XP and defrag using Diskeeper that does the job within a minute or less.
Automatic Search for updates does not always work good. I update all my games from stored patches on my PC which were downloaded manually.
In all the games that run, i have all graphical settings full maximum @ 1600x1200 (if that resolution is available, which isn't in some older games), on the X1900XT.
ATI Catalyst for Vista RTM driver & Control Centre are fully functional. The nVidia Beta seems to be too, but i didn't manage to install it at all, so i'm using the generic nVidia drivers that Windows installs automatically when it detects an nVidia card._____________________________________________ ________________
Test-PC systems specifications
__________________________________________________ ___________
WINDOWS VISTA RC2
Core2Duo E6600 @ 3.6 Ghz
2 GB CORSAIR TwinXPC8500 DDR2 RAM in Dual Channel
ASUS P5W DH Deluxe
ATI Radeon X1900XT 512MB / ATI Catalyst for Vista RTM driver
Creative X-Fi Platinum / X-Fi Beta for Vista driver
Coolermaster Realpower 550W
2 x WD 250 GB SATA-150 / 16MB
NEC 3550A DVD-burner
Logitech G7
EIZO T965 @ 1600x1200 / 85Hz

I rebuilt my PC's recently, so i can now also test on a GF7800GT/256MB. Though only on the Vista-inbuilt nVidia drivers (96.85) because the new nVidia package refuses to install on my Vista claiming that Vista is not installed (maybe because i have Vista on K:\ and nVidia driverpackage keeps looking at C:\ where my XP is even though i keep pointing it to K:\ -even in safe mode- that's why it says "your OS is not Vista, installation will abort"? I tried various ways but nVidia 96.85 keeps refusing) but anyway.

WINDOWS VISTA RC2
Pentium 650 ~4.1 Ghz
2 GB CORSAIR Vs PC5300 DDR2 RAM in Dual Channel
ASUS P5AD2-E Premium
XFX nVidia GF 7800GT 256 MB / Generic nVidia Vista RC2 driver
Creative Audigy 2 ZS / Beta for Vista driver
Chieftech 480 W
2 x WD 250 GB SATA-150 / 8MB
NEC 3550A DVD-burner
Logitech MX-700
Iiyama Vision Master Pro 512 @ 1600x1200 / 85 Hz


The games that (due to very well OpenGL support) require an nVidia card (7800GT) in blue, matching the ATI card failures in red. So, if you find a non-working game in red, you'll find that it works in blue. :) The black tests were done on ATI card. When a game runs on ATI, it always also runs on an nVidia card.

The games listed in Italic were not tested by myself but by people who were so kind to add their experiences. Also in blue when they used an nVidia card (and i can't confirm those games on ATI card).


__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _


So far i tested:
_____________________________________________
****THE GAMES THAT WORK:
_____________________________________________

Aliens versus Predator. No issues. Installs and runs fine.

American McGee's Alice on nVidia card (GF7800GT). Installs and runs fine!

Apocalyptica on nVidia card (GF7800GT). Vista refuses to install this game from the popping up "install" menu. As usual, it asks your permission, you click "Allow", but immediately you get error: "Apocalyptica has stopped working". Still, a Setup Request is still minimised on the taskbar. Maximising and again selecting "Allow" results in the same message again that "Apocalyptica has stopped working", and so on.
Instead, explore cd, double-click Setup > select "Allow" > select language and voilá the game installs. And runs fine on a nVidia GeForce card.

Battle Isle IV: Andosia War. -[On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)]

Bet On Soldier. Setup error: "You are currently running Windows (version inconnue). The oldest OS version supported is Windows 2000. Your OS version is no longer supported. This program will unlikely function. Do you want to continue anyway?" Clicking Yes has no result: the message stays there, and installation is blocked. And clicking No does not make the message disappear and discontinue installation; you are stuck. Clicking the exit-cross has no effect, so this is a job for Task Manager.
Open This Computer, explore CD. Right-click on Setup.exe > Properties > tab Compatibility and apply Windows XP (SP2) Compatibility mode onto it. This time, game installs. But won't run: a Star Force Copy Protection error. It says "Run as Administrator". Right-click on the game's shortcut > Run as Administrator. This causes the PC to reboot. After reboot, a Windows message appears: "This driver is blocked due to compatibility issues. Check for solutions online." Download the Vista RC2 Star Force driver update. Double-click it to install the update. Again, reboot the PC. Update: download the latest DirectX9.0c for Vista (version 10-10-2006). HERE (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=2DA43D38-DB71-4C1B-BC6A-9B6652CD92A3&displaylang=en&Hash=Ih5ph3%2bXSvIofXsgmH2F9M7jKFy9lSq4T0ufgbFA6t0 tE4C9%2bUJf1sRmGlqPYyxg%2bZTZBiG0%2fWqEodeBc5xD0Q% 3d%3d).
Now double-click the game's icon, enter the serial. Checking disc can take abnormally long time. Then the game seems to launch. But two messages appear at the same time: "Windows Firewall has blocked some features of the program". Keep Blocking. And an error: "Kt_Game.dll failed to Initialize. Program will now exit." Click OK, no other option. Windows message: "BoS.exe has stopped working". Again, double-click game's icon on Desktop. Notice that the game intro is running already, minimized on the Taskbar. Maximize. Make your settings, and then the actual game seems to launch, but you are fooled (it freezes). Use Task Manager to exit. Message: "BoS has stopped working". Yeah, OK.
Apply Windows XP (SP2) Compatibility mode onto the game's shortcut.
Again launch the game, and now it runs excellently.

Beyond Good and Evil on nVidia card (GF7800GT). Installs and runs fine!

Blade Runner. -[On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)]

BloodRayne. Message from Program Compatibility Assistant that My Talk Fax Pro 7 has compatibility issues. Just click "Run the Program". Plays very well.

Boilingpoint - Road to Hell. Installs and runs fine.

Brothers in Arms. Immediately after installation, attempting to launch game, results in Critical Error: "Build: (null) --- OS: Windows NT 6.0 (Build: 5744) --- CPU: GenuineIntel Unknown processor @ 4077 Mhz [333028 1832448.000000 0] with 2046 MB RAM --- Video: Radeon X1900 Series (431) ---- General protection fault! ---- History: UWindowsViewportr:OpenWindow <-UGameEngine:PostInit <-InitEngine" and at the same time my extended dekstop has swapped monitors, left screen is right right screen is left. I click button 'Submit Bug Report', and that results in: "MAPISendMail() failed." and i press OK. Immediately after OK, the swapped Extended Desktop restores itself. I reboot.
Apply Windows XP (SP2) Compatibility mode. It helps, game launches! And runs very fine indeed.

Call Of Duty + United Offensive. Installs, patched. Runs fine. Impression that performance is lower (explosions effects) than on XP, not sure though.

Carmageddon TDR2000. Installs and runs excellently!

Chaser. Autorun is very slow, takes much time before Install button results in any action. Installs fine. In the Options menu > just clicking on option "SOUND", results in display freaking out completely (because of Creative beta?). Quit. Message "Graphic driver has stopped working and recovered successfully". Nevermind. Restart game. Sound is OK (i haven't touched the settings anyway). Game runs excellently.

Clive Barker's Undying. Installs fine. When launching game, Vista message pops up from taskbar "The colour scheme has been set to basic. A running program is not compatible with certain visual elements." But that is no problem. The game runs very fine.

Cold Fear. Not the slightest issue. Plays excellently!

Command and Conquer: Gold/95 (Original Edition) -[On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)] Setup program needs to be run on "Windows 95" compatibility mode. Needs 2000/XP-compatibility patch (ccgoldxppatch.zip (http://www.peliplaneetta.com/tiedostot/pelipaivitykset/strategia-sotapelit/2400/)) which disables network game. Runs otherwise normally. Doesn't suffer 256 colors only -mode problem like First Decade Edition.

Command and Conquer: Generals (First Decade Edition) + Expansion - [On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)] No issues.

Command and Conquer: Gold/95 (First Decade Edition) -[On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)] No issues. (Note: Your desktop will change into 256 colors only -mode for a short while.)

Command and Conquer: Renegade (Original Edition) -[On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)] No issues.

Command and Conquer: Renegade (First Decade Edition) -[On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)] No issues.

Command and Conquer: Tiberian Sun (Original Edition) -[On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)] No issues. Patch highly recommended.

Command and Conquer: Tiberian Sun (First Decade Edition) + Expansion -[On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)] Needs at least First Decade 1.02 (http://www.ea.com/official/cc/firstdecade/us/news.jsp?src=Patch102) patch in order to work.

Conflict Desert Storm. No issues. Installs and runs fine.

Constantine. No issues. Installs and runs fine.

Contract J.A.C.K. Installs fine. Then you get message Update is available, update now? You click yes results in error. I update all my games from stored patches on my PC which were downloaded manually. Besides this, no issue. Game runs excellent.

Counter Strike: Condition Zero + Deleteted Scenes on nVidia card (GF7800GT). Installs fine. After doubleclick Icon on Dektop, error: "conflict with disc emulation software, contact Securom." But open and close tray and selecting "Allow" for the autorun-menu to run, causes no problem and game launches. This is an nVidia card so we select OpenGL, and it runs superbly!

Crazy Taxi. No issue. Installs and runs excellently.

Daikatana (on nVidia GF7800GT). Mine is the ' SoldOut' version. Install. You get message: Macromedia Shockwave Player is outdated. Click "Fix problem". Shockwave player 8.0 is installed. Installation proceeds. Next window shows: 'Click <install game> button to begin the installation...' Two messages popping up: 'Helpbox -LOADING.HTM' message is saying: "This program cannot dis" (the message does not fit in window and the window is not resizeable). the other: "Important - Windows XP users. Setup.Now has detected that you're running Windows XP! After installing the game you MUST install the patch which is located in the PATCHES directory on your CD-ROM." Click OK. And close the HelpBox.
Installation starts.
Warning Message from Compatibility Assistant about My Talk Fax Pro 7. Just click "Run program".
You hear from the spinning of cd-rom that something is happening but you don't see it. OK: it has minimized itself, click on Daikatana Setup on the taskbar. Welcome to the Daikatana setup program. Click Next, Yes, Full install, select location. I select the GAMES\Daikatana folder on the other partition. Game installs. At the end: don't view the readme file, don't play Daikatana (uncheck both). Exit SoldOut menu.
Explore CD. Navigate to folder 'Patches'.
Doubleclick "Patch Setup V1.2a.exe" will fail!!! Instead, doubleclick "data.exe".
Click button "Patch!"
-ignore the message: "An Error Ocurred - PATCH was unable to locate an exact match for the original file to be updated. However, PATCH was able to locate a file with the same name as the original file. However, the file found did not either have the same size or checksum as the actual original file that PATCH is seeking in order to perform the update." Just click OK, and EXIT.
Vista message: "Program Compatibility Assistant: This program might not have installed correctly."
Select: this program installed correctly.
Click Start > All Programs > Eidos Interactive > Daikatana to launch the game.
(many thanks to AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1401515&postcount=216)who inspired me to try again).

Dark Messiah of Might and Magic. Installs and runs excellently.
What i found strange, is that i did not need to put in the serial number, it wasn't even asked. I just bought it an hour ago and played some in the first level, then exited; game asks if i want to save? I clicked 'Save' and then the game freezed. I pressed the Esc key, the game display disappeared, leaving a message on Desktop: "Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library - Runtime Error! - Program: Dark Messiah of Might and Magic\mm.exe - This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. Please contact the application's support team for more information." Hmm... maybe it needs a patch, i'll have a search...
Other than this, the game ran excellently!
[Update December 13, 2006. I learned that this game was released unfinished and litterally overloaded with bugs. Update it via Steam. After update, start a new game rather than launching a savegame (they'll be invalid after patch). Game runs fine this way.]

Delta Force 2. Installs and runs.

Delta Force - Black Hawk Down. Patched with 1.5.0.5. Installs fine. The game makes automatically settings for the videocard. Sadly it underestimates ATI Radeon X1900XT and disables FSAA and limits resolution to 1280x1024. :confused: No keys in Registry to alter. But this is happening the same on Windows XP also. No idea why this game does not recognize the high end capacities of the X1900XT; i guess it is a limitation whithin the game itself. Besides this, the game runs excellently.

Deus Ex: Invisible War. Installs, patched. Runs excellently.

Desperados -Wanted dead or Alive. When i let it install itself in the directory it creates by default at Program Files\Infogrames\, it does not run at all and will prompt to uninstall itself. When installed in the seperate Games folder on another partition i always use, it installs and runs fine!

Devastation. No issue. Excellent.

Diablo 2. -[On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)]

Die Hard: Nakatomi Plaza. No issue. Excellent.

Doom3 on nVidia card (GF7800GT). Installs and runs very well!
Update: Catalyst® 7.1 Display Driver for Windows Vista (32 bit) (http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/vista32/common-vista32.html)
The good news is that DOOM3 is now running on ATI / Vista! :tmb: Read more in post #260 (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1541653&postcount=260)


Dungeon Siege. No issue. Excellent.

Evil Twins -Cyprien's Chronicles. No issue. Excellent.

4x4 Evo 2. Installs and runs fine.

F1 World Grand Prix. Message from Program Compatibility Assistant that My Talk Fax Pro 7 has compatibility issues. Just click "Run the Program". Then it wants to install Indeo Software needed for the ingame FMV's. Then: "Searching for copies of netscape (copies found: 0)", finally: "You already have a newer version of the Indeo video 4 Codec, existing file will not be overwritten". That is nice. Game runs fine. Only sound is bad. Quitting the game is a problem: it goes into "sleep mode" instead of really quitting. Quit with Task manager.

Far Cry. No issue. Excellent.

F.E.A.R on nVidia card (GF7800GT). It installs and runs fine.

Freedom Fighters. No issue. Excellent.

Gabriel Knight 3. -[On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)]

Grand Theft Auto 3. No issue. Installs and runs excellently.

Ghost Recon (+ expansion packs Island Thunder and Desert Siege). No issue. Installs and runs excellently.

Giants: Citizen Kabuto. Installs and runs fine.

Gore - Ultimate Soldier on nVidia card (GF7800GT). Installs, and runs fine!


Gothic 3 Demo. Installs fine. Tested without any patch, game runs fine! Although, on the ATI beta drivers with graphical issues (flickering transparent [dis-]appearing textures), but surely fixed in the final Catalyst drivers on the final Vista version. So the full game runs too. Of course, install all available patches.

Half-Life + Blue Shift. Install and run excellently in D3D mode.

Half-Life2 + Lost Coast. Excellent!
Update.
Hmm.. there's something not right with the uninstall shield. Uninstalling Half-Life2 results in almost all files just staying there! I had to finish the job by deleting the directory with contents of 5+ GB manually! :pi:

Halo Combat Evolved. Installs fine. When starting the game, you are informed that Halo has compatibility issues, and you are brought to Bungie.net to install patch Halo PC 1.071 (Build 614).
"The current version of Halo PC, version 1.07 (build 613) , incorrectly reports that it is not compatible with the version of DirectX included in Windows Vista. The following fix removes this check; there are no other changes".
Download patch and update manually. Game runs excellently.

Heavy Metal FAKK2. Installs fine. Patch 1.2 installed. Runs fine.

Helicops. Primitive Windows 95 game, yet installs and runs without any problem. No compatibility mode needed.

Hidden and Dangerous 2. It installed and patched. But to launch it is another case. Having the Play CD (CD1) in tray and launching the game from its shortcut on Desktop, nothing happens; CD just spins and then stops. Solution:
Open the directory where you installed the game. Right-click hd2.exe > Properties > Compatibility tab, select 'Windows XP(SP2)' Compatibility mode. Then double-click hd2.exe to launch the game.
Try to get accustomed to the game's default controls (which is not easy), because remapping them can result in being unresponsive and/or inconsistant. Nevertheless, this game runs fine on Vista.

Hitman: Codename 47. Installs and runs excellently.

Hitman 2: Silent Assassin. Initially nothing happens. Then starts installing very slowly and suddenly speeds up. Game runs fine.

IGI (Project: IGI). Installs and runs fine.

IGI 2: Covert Strike. Installs and runs excellently.

Impossible Creatures. Installs and runs excellently.

Jane´s Attack Squadron. Installs and runs excellently.

Kingpin -Life of Crime. Installs, then attempt to launch game freezes the PC. Hard reboot needed. In the end, game runs excellently.

Live For Speed. [tested by Agent 47 (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1355632&postcount=35)]on-line racing game runs fine, players will need to install the LFS S2 5U30 patch though (basically replace the exe).
it's a recent released patch to enable the game to run on Vista with no problems regardless of what graphics card you may currently have.

Lord Of The Rings - The Return Of The King. Installs and runs excellently.

Mace Griffin Bounty Hunter. Installs fine. When starting the game, first a message: "Unable to detect video card memory. If your graphic card has 32 MB or less, ... etc." Following a test, which runs fine. And the actual game indeed runs fine as well.

Manhunt. Installs and runs excellently.

Max Payne. Patched to 1.5.Installs and runs excellently, except there is no sound in the FMV's. When actual game starts, sound is restored.

Max Payne 2. Updated with patch. Error message that DirectX9 is not found. Solution: apply 'Windows XP (SP2) compatibility mode'. Game runs excellently.

Mech Warrior 4 - Vengeance. Installs and runs excellently.

Medal Of Honour: Pacific Assault. Installs fine, applied patch 1_2. Plays excellently.

Medal of Honour Allied Assault (+ expansion packs). Excellent.

Men of Valor. Installs and runs fine.

Mega Race 3. "My Talk Fax Pro 7 has compatibility issues" message. Just click "Run the Program". Installs and runs fine.

Messiah. Installs fine, patched. Select 'Play Messiah D3D', right-click on it, compatibility tab, set Windows 98/ME compatibility mode. Runs fine.
On my other PC with nVidia 7800GT and Audigy 2 ZS, "the sound cannot be read from the CD" -it's a silent game...

Morrowind The Elder Scrolls lll -GOTY. Excellent.

Moto GP 2. Excellent.

Need For Speed Hot Persuit 2. Installs and runs excellently.

Need For Speed Most Wanted. Installs and runs excellently.

Need For Speed Porsche 2000. Installs and runs great!

Need For Speed Underground. Installs and runs excellently.

Need For Speed Underground 2. Installs and runs excellently.

No One Lives Forever. Runs excellently.

No One Lives Forever 2. Updated with the patch. Runs excellently.

Operation Flashpoint. Installs and runs excellently.

Painkiller + BOOH. Excellent!

Peter Jackson's King Kong. After installation, it says my graphic card drivers are outdated (?:confused:) and it presets the lowest resolution (640) with the highest refresh rate (100Hz). Change to 1600x1200/85Hz. Reboot required, so i reboot. (You can get message that the Starforce Protection is not compatible, Update it, reboot required). Launch game...first message again "drivers are out of date", press 'run anyway'... insert the game's serial (but that's printed on the CD, so i take it out and type it in, get message Error: no CD found, so i put it back, next time write the serial on the booklet ok), game launches! At the highest resolution despite the warnings. First scene "I'm here Jack, look at me!" keeps repeating just like on XP untill mouse is configured to revert yes or no, once you have confirmed what you want (in 'Options') the game can actually launch. End of story. All is OK.

Prey. It installs fine. Do not install the patch immediately after installing the game, but first reboot. Game runs fine.
Update: Catalyst® 7.1 Display Driver for Windows Vista (32 bit) (http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/vista32/common-vista32.html)
OpenGL games now running on ATI / Vista! :tmb: Read more in post #260 (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1541653&postcount=260)


Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. Fine, no problem. Runs excellently.

Prince of Persia: Warrior Within. Fine, no problem. Runs excellently.

Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones. At install you get error: "Cannot Create Label from Raw String" which is nothing else than that a downloadlink for Adobe Reader cannot be displayed in the Installation menu ( i guess due to the safety protection blockade), just click OK. Installs fine.
You will be prompted to reboot.
Error message: The Starforce Protection driver for the game's CD has compatibility issues with Vista. Microsoft directs you to Starforce supportpage to download the updated version of the copyprotection driver (also read Starforce's honest and open protection policy, and if you like download the removal tool as well).
So, update StarForce and then POP:TTT installs and runs excellently.

Project Eden - Max Load: 4. Message from Program Compatibility Assistant that My Talk Fax Pro 7 has compatibility issues. Just click "Run the Program". Installs and runs excellently.

Project Snowblind. No issue. Excellent.

Quake. You need to patch it with at least 1.01 patch and Winquake/GlQuake extender patch. -[On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)]

Quake 2. -[On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)]

Quake3 Arena. Like many other older games, this has My Talk Fax Pro 7 on it, which causes Vista warning "This Program has known compatibility issues". Well, you don't care, you just want the game installed. Press "Run Program" to proceed. Installs fine. Reboot required. Launch game. Windows Firewall wants to block program that wants to access network. I chose "Keep blocking". Game plays excellently.

Quake4. Installs, and runs excellently. Update: Catalyst® 7.1 Display Driver for Windows Vista (32 bit) (http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/vista32/common-vista32.html)
OpenGL games now running on ATI / Vista. Read more in post #260 (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1541653&postcount=260)

Rage Rally. Installs and runs excellently.

Resident Evil 3 Nemesis. Installs and runs.

Return to Castle Wolfenstein. No issue. Installs and runs excellently.

Sacrifice. No issue. Installs and runs fine.

Schizm. No issue. Installs and runs fine.

Severance - Blade of Darkness. Except from an unreadable options menu with the tiniest letters that do not contrast with background (i solved that by editing ther menu-background bitmap to almost white), and the words are not highlighted by your selections so you must guess what you selected (by counting the staccato sound on each selection) and the EXIT button does not work so i have to exit the hard mode via Taskmanager), no problem running the game on Vista.

Shadow Ops - Red Mercury. Runs excellently.

Shellshock Nam '67. Installs fine, though the popping up menu to start game as well as Desktop shortcut "cannot find path". Opening game's directory and double-click shellshock.exe launches the game nicely. Path in shortcut properties lacked the "exe" extension. Restored manually. Game runs excellently, but without sound. I take it is a Creative X-Fi Beta drivers fault...

Silent Hill 4: The Room. Installs and runs excellently.

Sin 1. Installs and runs excellently.

Sin Episodes - Emergence. Installs and runs excellently.

Sniper. First refuses to install. Explore CD > apply XP (SP2) Compatibility mode on Setup.exe, then run as adimistrator. Message from Program Compatibility Assistant that My Talk Fax Pro 7 has compatibility issues. Just click "Run the Program". Main menu freezes after hitting "Quit", you need the Windows Task Manager.

Splinter Cell. Installs when applied XP-Compatibility mode on the autorun.exe. Game runs fine.

Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. Installs fine, a CRC-error conscerning sound half-way installation may be due to the beta Creative drivers, just 'Ignore' and continue. Then install patch 1.05. Highest graphical settings applied. Game runs excellently!

Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow. Installs fine. Besides a bit choppy main and options menu (so hard to grab the word "Quit" with the cursor) but that is the same in XP. Anyway, the game runs excellently.

Starsiege: Tribes 2. -[On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)]

Starsiege: Tribes 3 - Vengeance. -[On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)]

State of Emergency. Installs and runs fine. Except there is no shortcut created in the Start menu, so create it manually from the game's exe. Also, there is no uninstall option and it is not in the Software list in Control Panel. Just delete the directory if you want to uninstall.

Swat3 - Close Quarters Battle. Installs and runs fine.

Syberia. Installs. Then message: "DirectX8.0a Object Error: Unknown error." Then: Insert first CD-rom, then reboot PC. No problem: in the end, this game runs fine.

Tactical Ops. No issue. Installs and runs excellently (in D3D mode).

The Great Escape. No issue. Installs and runs excellently.

The Thing. Installs and runs excellently.

Thief: Deadly Shadows. Freezes after installation. Reboot. Again freezing. Seems to be sounddriver related? Sound sticks, but finally game runs fine. But strange: it refuses to uninstall. :confused: I had to do the hard way: remove from Registry, and delete the game's directory.

Tomb Raider 2, 3, 4, 5 all work, of course with our updaters (http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/windowsxp2.html) that are Vista-proof. :tmb:

Tomb Raider: Level Editor (http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/vista/index.html) installs and runs excellently!

Tomb Raider demos (http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/vista/index.html#) install and run excellently!

Tomb Raider: Angel Of Darkness. Excellent!

Tomb Raider: Legend. Excellently. Except that the ATI CatalystBeta for Vista is based on their August release which is 6.8 (?) which means the ugly shader and shadow corruption (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/ATI%20Catalyst%206.8%20out.%20But%20Catalyst%206.3 %20still%20is%20the%20best%20for%20Legend..). For WindowsXP, this is solved in the latest Catalyst 6.11 (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=78627) , so we may hopefully expect the final Vista Catalyst incorporates that fix as well.

Tron 2.0. Installs fine. Setup goes fine, but initially game does not run. After 2 reboots finally it runs, and very fine.

Ubersoldier. It installs. Then you attempt to launch the game. It refuses. Error message: The Starforce Protection driver for the game's CD has compatibility issues with Vista. Microsoft directs you to Starforce supportpage to download the updated version of the copyprotection driver. It works. Game runs excellently.

Unreal ll - The Awakening. Installs and runs excellently.

Unreal Tournament 2003. No problem! Installs and runs excellently.

Unreal Tournament 2004. Patched to 3369. Excellent!

URU - Ages Beyond Myst. Immediately after installation Vista error message: "Colour Scheme has been changed to Windows Vista Basic. A certain program is not compatible." Flickering Uru menu. Wait till button to Update appears. After update, menu looks normal and you can proceed. Game did not launch untill 'Windows XP (SP2) compatibility mode' applied to Play shortcut. Runs excellent.

Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines. Patched to version 1.2.Installs and runs fine.

Vampire: the Masquerade - Redemption. Installs and runs fine.

Vietcong. -[On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)]

Vietcong 2: Installs and runs, but not so good. Buggy performance (many sudden freeze and dropouts) but that happens the same on XP. This game has serious problems running! After playing for 5 minutes, game freezes and sound sticks repeating, then error message (in Vista simply: "Vietcong 2 has stopped working", in XP: Fail to write to memory"). The 1.1 patch released only fixes a "serial number error (which i haven't) and adds a X-Fi splash screen to the game launch menu, nothing else so pretty useless. This seems a serious coding problem of the game. It can crash at any moment, no matter the video- and sound settings (of course within the limits of your hardware, but i can run it at all maximum settings and also tested at lowest settings no difference to the crashing). The crashes are ofter in the first 2 levels, after that they become rarer. Quicksaving often seems to help.
Because this is not a specific Vista problem, i keep it here in the list of games that run.

Warcraft 3. -[On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)]

Wetrix. -[On Vista RTM, nVidia, tested by AnXa (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1412799&postcount=237) -his system spec HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413321&postcount=241)]

Xlll. No issue. Installs and runs excellently.


The application PowerDVD 6 'has known compatibility issues' and 'No solution available form Microsoft' according to Vista message after it installed. However it runs normally, sofar (only tested playing dvd's).


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX
__________________________________________________ __________________________________
****THE GAMES THAT DON'T WORK (or not well):
__________________________________________________ __________________________________


American McGee's Alice on ATI card (X1900XT). Installs and runs, except that it has very disturbing flickering environments textures.

Apocalyptica on ATI card (X1900XT). Graphics are a mess, completely unplayable (but this happens on XP/ATI as well).

Area-51. Refuses to install. No reason given, description: "setup was finished before install could be completed". Trying with 'Windows XP compatibility mode' did not help.

Beyond Good and Evil on ATI card (X1900XT). Does not recognize Catalyst Beta for Vista as the latest and recent; says they're too old. High resolution is accepted, but many graphical settings are greyed out. Game starts and you can play, but it doesn't look too good and after 3 minutes artifacts appear.

Black & White + Creature Isle. After installation (which seems to go fine), attempt to launch game results in "Game has stopped working". Compatibility mode does not help.

Carmageddon 2. Does not run, and compatibility mode doesn't help.

Chronicles Of Riddick. at start of installation, you get warning that this game has known incompatibility with Vista. Abort.

Colin McRae Rally 2005. Does not even install. After inserting disc, it gives the option "Play" but it's not even installed yet. Of course it won't play. Nor install. Exit. This happens both on the ATI and on the nVidia system.

Command & Conquer: Renegade. Patched 1037. Installs fine, but does not run. "Renegade has stopped working. A problem caused the program to stop working correctly. Windows will close the program and notify you if a solution is available." This happens both on nVidia (with Vista generic drivers) and on ATI card (Catalyst for RTM). [Reported working on Vista RTM with nVidia WHQL drivers, tested by AnXa, see above].

Counter Strike: Condition Zero + Deleteted Scenes on ATI card (X1900XT). Installs fine. After doubleclick Icon on Dektop, error: "conflict with disc emulation software, contact Securom." But open and close tray and selecting "Allow" for the autorun-menu to run, causes no problem and game launches. Options > VIDEO: D3D results in "display option not supported. Game will run in Software mode". OpenGL results in the same for the known bad support for it by ATI. Only software mode available. No, thanks. Quit. Pity.

Daikatana on ATI card (X1900XT). I must redo this test, since this game works on GF7800GT.

Duke Nukem Manhattan Project. Does not even install.

Dukes of Hazzard. Installs fine. After the intro, you want to manage settings. Program immediately stops. Windows message: "Frontend has stopped working".

F.E.A.R. on ATI card (X1900XT). It installs fine, and plays at disappointingly low performance. See below. Also, its icon is not displayed on desktop, instead a default windows-folder icon. And you must skip the intro's by Esc key otherwise you get stuck in a black screen and nothing happening. Skipping via Esc brings you on the F.E.A.R. main menu screen.

Fighting Force. Needed "a Macromedia Shockwave player in order to run this installation." OK, done. Installed. Rebooted. Setup done. Attempting to launch game immediately results in message "fforce has stopped working". Compatibility modes don't help.

Gore - Ultimate Soldier on ATI card (X1900XT). Installs. When launching, error message: "Could not construct Open GL display: Unable to retrieve procedure address for glActive TextureARB". So, doesn't run.

Kreed. Refuses to install, but freezes the system.. Task Manager will not even open to stop it. "Windows Explorer is not responding". Reboot needed. Tried 4 times with the same result, 4 times reboot to get windows working again. XP Compatibility mode does not help.

Legacy Of Kain: Defiance. After installation, and trying to launch Setup: "Conflict with Disc Emulator Software detected". :confused: I don't have any installed. Removed Starforce Protection update i had to install for another game to run at all, tried compatibility mode. But sadly no way this game will launch.

Mafia. Installs fine, but at the end you get Message from Program Compatibility Assistant that My Talk Fax Pro 7 has compatibility issues. Just click "Run the Program". Then apply the patch. Installs fine, but at the end you again get Message from Program Compatibility Assistant that My Talk Fax Pro 7 has compatibility issues. Just click "Run the Program". Then try to apply the Indeo codec....finally: no, it is written for XP, and not compatible with Vista. Hm. And after all this, the game does not play.

Mech Warrior 2 - Mercenaries. DirectX3 version. In order to install it, explore CD and set Windows 95 compatibility mode onto the setup.exe. Installs, but it sadly refuses to run. Compatibility mode does not help.

Myst lV - Revelation. Installs fine. After install it gives system info and a conclusion that my system does not fit the minimum requirements for the game ( :p) because it does not recognise Vista. Anyway, game runs, but not so good, very slow response.

Obscure. Installs. Game requires reboot. Error: "This application can be launched with Windows 95/98/ME/NT 4.0/2000/XP/Server 2003 only". Windows XP (SP2) compatibility mode does not help.

Oni. Message from Program Compatibility Assistant that My Talk Fax Pro 7 has compatibility issues. Just click "Run the Program". Installs fine. But the Options menu is extremely sluggish and the game runs awfully, at 1 fps! Back on Desktop, Vista message that colour scheme has been set to basic because a program tries to run that is not compatible.

Plane Crazy. Does not even install. Compatibility mode does not help.

Rally Championship 2002. No autorun-menu appears, there is none. Explore CD and double-click Setup.exe. Installs fine and quickly. Setup menu works well and swiftly. Start. One 10th of a second you see your car at the starting spot ready to take off, and wAtZs! ---> white message on a black background: "Rally.exe has stopped working". The "Close Program" button you can't even click because the mouse is dead, the Enter key is dead, complete freeze. Job for Task Manager, and there is the mouse again.

Real MYST -realtime 3D version. Installs fine but refuses to play. Compatibility modes don't help.

Riven - The Sequel to Myst. Installs fine. But it does not manage to install Quicktime, and fails to recognize the installation of a newer version of Quicktime. It refuses to run.

Shadow Man. Message from Program Compatibility Assistant that My Talk Fax Pro 7 has compatibility issues. Just click "Run the Program". Installs fine. Applied setup, click Play. But the game does not run at all, whatever i try: nothing happens. After 10 minutes, attempt to uninstall gives message that "unInstall Shield has detected that Shadow Man is in use, please close the application". Haha. Fine job for Task Manager. You think. The game is not listed, NO application whatsoever is listed in Task Manager. Reboot then, and then unistall.

Soldier of Fortune 2: Double Helix. Installs extremely slowly. Refuses to launch: "Error during initialization. SYSTEM ERROR. Could not load default cfg." Compatibility mode does not help. This happens both on nVidia and ATI card.

Supreme Snowboarding. Installing: nothing happens for minutes, so be patient. Finally comes life. After installing, apply Windows 98/ME compatibility mode onto Properties of the Play shortcut on desktop.
Make sure you do the graphics configuration first before playing, to avoid black screens and artifacts. Be prepared for game freezes, just use Task Manager to escape. But for gaming this is no reliable performance. Happens the same both on ATI and nVidia system.

The Ship. It installs and updates from Steam. Then when you attempt to launch it, you get error message that "failed to detect the directX april 2006 update. Click OK to begin installing the update." You click OK. Error message: "Current logon user doesn't have the Administrator privilege. Please logon again as an Administrator or contact your PC Administator." You click OK. Error message: "The april 2006 DirectX update has failed and The Ship cannot continue." Maybe because i'm running the October 2006 DirectX9.0c? You click OK. End of story. (For this, you have run the Steam updater for an hour, because "at this moment our server is very busy. Try again after a few moments.")

The Suffering. Patched to 1.1. Installs, but refuses to run. Error: "must be run with administrator privileges. So you right-click > run as administrator. Game requires reboot. Error: "This application can be launched with Windows 95/98/ME/NT 4.0/2000/XP/Server 2003 only". Windows XP (SP2) compatibility mode does not help. Button 'Information' just launches a report being created.
Anyway, game doesn't run.

Thief: The Dark Project. Install the game, Finish, Quit. Then open and close tray with the CD in it to again launch Autorun. This time, install the Patch 1.33 from the menu. Wait untill it has finished installing all patch files, which takes about as long as it was installing the game. When finished, launch game. Game runs a bit choppy, then freezes quickly. Only way to end is via Task Manager. This happens both on ATI and nVidia system.

Tomb Raider 1. Does not run at all. The problem is that ntvdm.exe in Vista has changed since Windows XP. Maybe 16-bit applications are not supported anymore; fact is that VDMSound 2.10 installs well, Advanced Installer installs TR1 with DgVoodoo, but the game refuses to run: with a "NTVDM.EXE: Hard Error" message.

Tropico. Installs fine. After finishing installing, right on to play. But it gives an error: "Missing CD-Rom. This program will not run without the CD-ROM in the drive. Err.1001" -while it IS still in the tray. Uninstall Tropico.

True Crime - Streets of LA. Installs fine. Does not run. The game has stopped working. Run as administrator or XP Compatibility mode does not help. Uninstalling takes very looong, "Validating install"...finally done.

XPAND Rally. Installs. But when trying to launch the game you get an Error: "must be run with administrator privileges. So you right-click > run as administrator. Game requires reboot. Error: "This application can be launched with Windows 95/98/ME/NT 4.0/2000/XP/Server 2003 only". Windows XP (SP2) compatibility mode does not help. Button 'Information' just launches a report being created.
Anyway, game doesn't run.

X2 - The Threat. Installs fine. Refuses to run. Error: "This application can be launched with Windows 95/98/ME/NT 4.0/2000/XP/Server 2003 only". Windows XP (SP2) compatibility mode does not help. Button 'Information' just launches a report being created.
Anyway, game doesn't run.


__________________________________________________ ________________________________________________
PERFORMANCE SECTION
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________________

F.E.A.R. (On ATI card (X1900XT)). It installs fine, and plays. But there is something wrong with the compatibility: disappointing low performance compared to what it does on XP.
In Vista, Printscreen of the testresult gives an empty black screen so i have to type it out.

PC (previous, this is a testresult before i rebuilt my PC's):
Pentium 650 @ 4.1 Ghz
2 GB PC 5300 DDR2 RAM in Dual Channel
ASUS P5AD2-E Premium
ATI Radeon X1900XT 512 MB / Catalyst Beta for Vista RC1 driver
Creative X-Fi Platinum / X-Fi Beta for Vista driver

All maximum settings. Resolution 1600 x 1200.
The testresult on Vista RC2:

FPS:
Minimum: 9
Average: 12
Maximum: 15

FPS Distribution:
100% below 25 FPS
0% between 25 and 40 FPS
0% above 40 FPS

Strange thing is that at 1024 x 768 i get about the same result. :pi:
And it is completely unplayable: stutterings, and when you click to shoot, the response from mousebutton to the gun is a second later.
Also, because the Creative X-Fi drivers for Vista offer only the basic sound, soundeffects are almost none.

In XP (with Catalyst 6.3) i did the same test.
All maximum settings. Resolution 1600 x 1200.
Test result:

FPS:
Minimum: 20
Average: 41
Maximum: 91

FPS Distribution:
7% below 25 FPS
43% between 25 and 40 FPS
50% above 40 FPS

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______
Core2Duo is a considerably more efficient processor than the latest Pentium series. I am very happy with it. Now the same test with my new PC.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______

PC (current):
Core2Duo E6600 @ 3.6 Ghz
2 GB PC8500 DDR2 RAM in Dual Channel
ASUS P5W DH Deluxe
ATI Radeon X1900XT 512MB / ATI Catalyst for Vista RTM driver (https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&folderID=5712)
Creative X-Fi Platinum / X-Fi Beta for Vista driver

All maximum settings. Resolution 1600 x 1200.
The testresult on Vista RC2:

FPS:
Minimum: 13
Average: 14
Maximum: 16

FPS Distribution:
100% below 25 FPS
0% between 25 and 40 FPS
0% above 40 FPS

In XP (and now with the latest Catalyst 6.11) i did the same test.
All maximum settings. Resolution 1600 x 1200.
Test result:

FPS:
Minimum: 26
Average: 55
Maximum: 130

FPS Distribution:
0% below 25 FPS
38% between 25 and 40 FPS
62% above 40 FPS
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Half-Life2 Lost Coast.

Although veryvery good on Vista, Half-Life2 Lost Coast performs better on XP. A difference of more than 10 frames per second average.

The "Stresstest" result. Both on Vista as XP the same maximum settings @ 1600x1200.

PC (previous, this is a testresult before i rebuilt my PC's):
Pentium 650 @ 4.1 Ghz
2 GB PC 5300 DDR2 RAM in Dual Channel
ASUS P5AD2-E Premium
ATI Radeon X1900XT 512MB / Previous ATI Catalyst for Vista RTM driver (https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&folderID=5712)
Creative X-Fi Platinum / X-Fi Beta for Vista driver

PC (current):
Core2Duo E6600 @ 3.6 Ghz
2 GB PC8500 DDR2 RAM in Dual Channel
ASUS P5W DH Deluxe
ATI Radeon X1900XT 512MB / Previous ATI Catalyst for Vista RTM driver (https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&folderID=5712)
Creative X-Fi Platinum / X-Fi Beta for Vista driver

Both PC's gave the same result on Vista, as they also do on XP.

On Vista RC2, 71.71 fps:

http://www.jozefdekkers.nl/Trforum/Computer/vista-rtm-halflife2stresstest-3nov06.jpg

On XP (SP2), with ATI Catalyst 6.3 / 6.11, .....82.22 fps:

http://www.jozefdekkers.nl/Trforum/Computer/xp-hl2-lc-stresstest-14oct06.jpg

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

UPDATE!! ATI released new Catalyst® Beta Display Driver for Windows Vista RTM (32 bit) (http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/vista32/common-vista32.html) :) [Version:8.31.100.3.2.1 -- Date: Dec. 13, 2006]
Updated with that and the latest DirectX9.0c for Vista (Date Published:12/13/2006). HERE (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=2DA43D38-DB71-4C1B-BC6A-9B6652CD92A3&displaylang=en&Hash=Ih5ph3%2bXSvIofXsgmH2F9M7jKFy9lSq4T0ufgbFA6t0 tE4C9%2bUJf1sRmGlqPYyxg%2bZTZBiG0%2fWqEodeBc5xD0Q% 3d%3d).

See the result: ALMOST 30 frames per second increase!!!


http://www.jozefdekkers.nl/Trforum/Computer/vistarc2-hl2-stresstest-ati-rtm.jpg

Interesting new info!

Look what dxdiagnose says about my graphic card.
In XP:
---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: Radeon X1900 Series
Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.
Chip type: Radeon X1900 Series (0x7249)
DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_7249&SUBSYS_0B121002&REV_00
Display Memory: 512.0 MB
Current Mode: 1600 x 1200 (32 bit) (85Hz)
Monitor: Plug en Play-monitor
Monitor Max Res: 1600,1200
Driver Name: ati2dvag.dll
Driver Version: 6.14.0010.6652 (English)
DDI Version: 9 (or higher)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 11/22/2006 04:25:23, 261120 bytes

Ok, so far normal, that's my card.

Now look at the result in Vista (posted here (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1428912&postcount=7)):

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: Radeon X1900 Series
Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.
Chip type: Radeon X1900 Series (0x7249)
DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_7249&SUBSYS_0B121002&REV_00
Display Memory: 1276 MB
Dedicated Memory: 509 MB
Shared Memory: 767 MB
Current Mode: 1600 x 1200 (32 bit) (85Hz)
Monitor: Generic PnP Monitor
Driver Name: atiumdag.dll,atiumdva.dat,atitmmxx.dll
Driver Version: 7.14.0010.0449 (English)
DDI Version: 9Ex
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 12/5/2006 22:53:12, 2494464 bytes
A smarter use of the available system memory!

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Futuremark 3DMark 2006. There you go.


On Vista it is 500 marks lower than on XP!

PC (current):
Core2Duo E6600 @ 3.6 Ghz
2 GB PC8500 DDR2 RAM in Dual Channel
ASUS P5W DH Deluxe
ATI Radeon X1900XT 512MB / Previous ATI Catalyst for Vista RTM driver (https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&folderID=5712)
Creative X-Fi Platinum / X-Fi Beta for Vista driver


On Vista RC2:

http://www.jozefdekkers.nl/Trforum/Computer/vistarc2-c2d-ati611-3dm06.jpg


On XP (SP2):

http://www.jozefdekkers.nl/Trforum/Computer/xp-c2d-ati611-3dm06.jpg

Hmpf. That is a lower score on both sections: graphics card and CPU.

With the recent released new ATI Catalyst, it is no better:

http://www.jozefdekkers.nl/Trforum/Computer/vistarc2-3dmark06-ati-rtm-dec06.jpg


But i see an improvement on XP (SP2) --tested 28 Dec 06:

http://www.jozefdekkers.nl/Trforum/Computer/3dmark06-xp-ati612-28dec06.jpg

I realise it is early, and this is RC2 i am using not the Vista to be released, with ATI's (and nVidia's) beta drivers. I would like to see that in the end DirectX9.0c runs at least as efficient on Vista as on XP.
And ATI need to update their OpenGL support!

Lord Icon
17-10-06, 02:42
Excellent guide (in progress), Joseph. I still think that for hard-core gamers dual boot is a must.

Joseph
17-10-06, 08:07
Thanks Lord Icon. :)

I still think that for hard-core gamers dual boot is a must.
Absolutely! :tmb:

abraham
17-10-06, 09:19
wooow how many games thanks:)

EscondeR
17-10-06, 18:07
Thanx for info Joseph :tmb:
I see I'm right preferring XP for gaming & working / 2003S for working ;) for now at least...

raiderfun
18-10-06, 12:41
Oh wow joseph , don't tell that you've tried all those games !!! :eek:

But the strange thing is that Prey and Doo3 aren't working :confused:

Zebius
18-10-06, 14:04
Nice and rapidly growing list, Joseph!
Though on my Vista Chronicles Of Riddick works, but I have NVidia card and polish version of that game. AFAIK NVidia always had better support for OpenGL games. If I have time I'll try Doom 3 in the evening.

And below - surprise :) Very early version of program enabling running TR1 on Vista made by Glidos' creator - Paul. So far no sound support, no fullscreen, no hardware acceleration. I hope he'll develope it further.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b69/Zebius/TombRaideronVista.jpg

Cochrane
18-10-06, 14:47
Nvidia has OpenGL support at all. ATI cards can only use the default OpenGL emulation layer, which directs OpenGL through DirectX and lacks any advanced features.

raiderfun
18-10-06, 14:55
Is that the DOS screen zebius ! ? :yik:

Joseph
18-10-06, 15:29
Wow Zebius!!! :yik: :yah:

Zebius
18-10-06, 15:32
Is that the DOS screen zebius ! ? :yik:

Nope, it is Vista screen ;)
DOS support on Vista is very poor, I tried to run few DOS applications/games and they just gave me instant crash. So we'll need either DosBox or other emulators like VDos32 from the screen above.

raiderfun
18-10-06, 15:37
Nope, it is Vista screen ;)
DOS support on Vista is very poor, I tried to run few DOS applications/games and they just gave me instant crash. So we'll need either DosBox or other emulators like VDos32 from the screen above.
Yup, you're right ! ;)

Technology is going so fastly! :D

ANoDE
18-10-06, 19:20
Great news! But I still hope Microsoft will provide some support for dos applications in vista.

Yup, you're right ! ;)

Technology is going so fastly! :D

Well..since DOS is outdated for about 10 years, I doubt you could call that "fast" *:tea: *

Joseph
18-10-06, 19:28
I guess Raiderfun meant the developement of VDOS32 (Vista-32 bit DOS ). Vista is not officially released yet someone programmed a DOS emulator for it.

Zebius
18-10-06, 20:05
Doom 3 ver. 1.3 tested on my Vista - it works well with one annoying glitch: :hea: after loading any level or a savegame the whole screen is just black, I need to press ctrl+alt+del then come back to the game and then all is normal. But I can play with all details high + AA + AF.


@Joseph
If you are interested - here is a discussion about VDos32:
http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=13518&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Joseph
18-10-06, 20:18
That's good news, Zebius! :tmb: Too bad i can't test yet on a nVidia card. I have a 7800GT doing nothing. I planned to upgrade to a new PC (with Core2Duo) this year, then in my current PC i will put the 7800GT, the X1900XT will go to the new one.

Thanks for the link, i'll check it out! :)

Joseph
19-10-06, 05:10
Hmm.. there's something not right with the uninstall shield. Uninstalling Half-Life2 results in almost all files just staying there! I had to finish the job by deleting the directory with contents of 5+ GB manually! :pi:

Lord Icon
20-10-06, 20:49
Hmm.. there's something not right with the uninstall shield. Uninstalling Half-Life2 results in almost all files just staying there! I had to finish the job by deleting the directory with contents of 5+ GB manually! :pi:

I read somewhere that this could happen if a software was not written specifically for Vista.

What method did you use? Game's uninstall or Vista's Programs and Features?

Joseph
20-10-06, 21:56
I used game's uninstall. It uninstalled like normally and took some time (10 seconds?)...it was the next day i saw most of the files were still there.
I did not know this, i mean i did not read about that. I have seen more files just staying there after uninstall, but Half-Life2 was the only one that left most of its GB!

Lord Icon
20-10-06, 23:36
I wonder if the game would leave all those files after using Programs and Features for removing it.

Joseph
20-10-06, 23:56
Good idea! Going to try that out now. :)

raiderfun
21-10-06, 00:01
Oh ! Hi joseph :wve:
I wanted to ask you before ...
How's vista speed with your computer ? :)

Lord Icon
21-10-06, 00:02
Just curious, Joseph... after uninstalling HL2 on XP are all those files left there too?

Joseph
21-10-06, 00:40
On Vista, Half-Life2 after uninstalling via its own uninstall method leaves its directory of 4.87 GB.

Deleted manually and re-installed. Launched to play, and ... 'Decrypting Half Life 2 game files' takes more than 10 minutes. :eek: OK, it is only updating the game... Played the game for 2 minutes.
Uninstalled this time via Control Panel Programs and Features.
The same result: Half-Life2 leaves its directory of 4.87 GB.

On XP, the files are gone after uninstall.

Lord Icon
21-10-06, 11:26
Interesting.

Joseph
03-11-06, 04:04
With the new release of ATI Catalyst for Vista RTM (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1295016&postcount=5)today, i should redo my whole games list! :cln:

Joseph
03-11-06, 05:38
At least it is a slight improvement over the previous Catalyst! :) Still under the XP performance though... (for comparison, see post #1 (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1294942&postcount=1))

All game's display settings to the absolute maximum of course.

http://www.jozefdekkers.nl/Trforum/Computer/vista-rtm-halflife2stresstest-3nov06.jpg

kill bill
08-11-06, 14:44
how those the sims 2 and eps do on it.;)

Joseph
10-11-06, 16:06
Sorry, i can't test games that i don't have. ;)

Joseph
17-11-06, 05:37
Update. In Vista, Doom3 and Prey run fine on GF7800GT! :tmb: :D

Lord Icon
17-11-06, 19:57
Hi Joseph.

That's a good news. So the entries in blue (first post) are the latest updates, right?

Lord Icon
17-11-06, 20:03
How about color coding, Joseph? Let's say:

Green = Runs without problems.
Red = Doesn't run.
Blue = Runs but has some problems.

You could use the color coding only on game titles to make it easy to find and read.

Lord Icon
17-11-06, 20:04
Oh, wait... you have them separated in "work" and "don't work" sections.

Nevermind then.

Joseph
17-11-06, 20:29
Yes i did! :D Hmm... changed the layout a bit... it's indeed better this way. Thanks for notifying, LI :tmb:

Agent 47
17-11-06, 20:44
Joseph,just to let you know....although i'm on RC1 an on-line racing game i compete in "Live For Speed" runs fine, players will need to install the LFS S2 5U30 patch though (basically replace the exe)

it's a recent released patch to enable the game to run on Vista with no problems regardless of what graphics card you may currently have.:jmp:

Joseph
17-11-06, 20:55
Thanks for the addition, Agent47! Shall i add that in the list? :)

[EDIT: Done! :tmb: thanks very much! -Next please! :D]

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 00:01
Joseph, there is a new version of VPC 2007 beta (need to sign up to get it). That version supports Vista. I was thinking maybe you could test it on Vista with TR1.

Do you still have 98? You could use that as a guest OS combined with dgVoodoo.

So:

Host OS: Vista RC2 (this is your version of Vista, right?)
Guest OS: Win98 or XP
Extra Software: dgVoodoo
Game: TR I and Gold.

What do you say? Are you up to it? I would do it but I don't have Vista installed on my system (not for now anyway).

I did try it on XP and with 98 as guest OS and it worked pretty well. So I was just wondering if the same method would work in Vista.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 00:06
By the way, I tried VPC 2004 (which is now free) with a few old games (Duke Nukem 3D, TR I etc.) on XP. They all run quite good.

Joseph
18-11-06, 00:40
Hmm. Could you give me a link? I would try it tomorrow. :) Yes i have 98, ME, XP, Vista RC2...

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 01:00
You can sign up or log on for it HERE (https://login.live.com/login.srf?wa=wsignin1.0&rpsnv=10&ct=1163815224&rver=4.0.1532.0&wp=MCMBI&wreply=https:%2F%2Fconnect.microsoft.com%2Fprogram details.aspx%3FProgramDetailsID%3D874&lc=1033&id=64416).

Joseph
18-11-06, 01:29
Thanks. Signing in now...

Downloading.....

Joseph
18-11-06, 02:41
Ok i couldn't resist. :D Installing vitual XP atm, win98 didn't work out because it stuck in the beginning of installing, at the phase that it says "Scanning the Registry..." that's when coloured virtically stretched pixels pop up and freeze in the virtual box. Tried 20 times, that's enough... Installing XP runs like a train! :tmb: 8 mins to go....

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 02:45
Yes i have 98, ME, XP, Vista RC2...

I have all of them as well, except Vista RC2.

Here's my collection:
DOS 6.x and 7.x,
FreeDOS,
Windows 1.0, 3.1, 95, 98, 98SE, ME, 2000, NT 4.0 and XP,
Linux,
BeOS,
BSD,
OS/2 Warp,
OS 9 and OSX (for MACs obviously),

and few other old OSes (experimental and non)

I never get rid of any OS CDs or/and floppies. It's like a hobby. Some people collect stamps I collect Operating Systems. Of course I have not used most of them in years.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 02:53
...win98 didn't work out because it stuck in the beginning of installing, at the phase that it says "Scanning the Registry..." that's when coloured virtically stretched pixels pop up and freeze in the virtual box.

Yes. Before installing 98 on VPC 2004 you create a virtual machine (I bet it's the same way in 2007). Now, when you create a VM you have to "assign" how much memory your VM will have. So, you need to make sure that you do not exceed the amount of RAM 98 is able to handle otherwise some weird things may happen.

Joseph
18-11-06, 02:55
Quite a hobby you got there... :pi: that's a lot of OS's!!! :D

Yes yes, i did all that. 15 GB size. 128 MB RAM for 98. Didn't work out. Pink/white and yellow pixels. like snow on the black background. And the "Scanning Registry" stuck, i waited 10 minutes, nothing happened, cd wasn't even spinning anymore...

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 02:58
Ok i couldn't resist. :D Installing vitual XP atm...

Don't worry about 98 for now. We can test it with XP under Vista. After you're done install TR I and Gold just like you would "normaly" under XP and let's see how it goes.

Don't forget to take some screenshots :)

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 03:00
Oh, and thank you for taking the time to test my (another) crazy idea :)

Joseph
18-11-06, 03:00
Version 2004, was that available on the same link btw?

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 03:02
No. Let me look.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 03:05
Virtual PC 2004 is widely available from Microsoft site and they just released it for free.

OK here it is: VPC 2004 with SP1 (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=6D58729D-DFA8-40BF-AFAF-20BCB7F01CD1&displaylang=en).

[Edit]: It does not run on Vista. And we are interested in Vista.

By the way, if this works (VPC 2007 that is) then TR players could avoid dual boot.

Joseph
18-11-06, 03:19
Lord. I want to access my other PC in the network. I can see it, but for access a password is required. How can i turn that off?

EDIT. Forget that, i understand. I am dealing with the heavy security of Vista. Must reboot the other PC into XP... :)

BTW thanks for 2004, just got it! :tmb:

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 03:27
You mean on VPC? Is your VM "seeing" the other "real" PCs on your network?

[Edit]: OK :)

Joseph
18-11-06, 03:29
Have access now, hehe. :D

This is fantaxstic Lord Icon. First time for me in virtual OS land.

laralives
18-11-06, 03:33
I wish to know what you are talking about...
I read the past pages but all i understood is that you installed something to make Tr1 work or something like my guess is that is a program that makes it think it's an older OS so it runs Tr1 am i right plz explain.

:wve:

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 03:34
Have access now, hehe. :D

This is fantaxstic Lord Icon. First time for me in virtual OS land.

That's great, Joseph. :tmb: Glad you like it :)

But what about... Tomb Raider???!!! :D

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 03:44
I wish to know what you are talking about...
I read the past pages but all i understood is that you installed something to make Tr1 work or something like my guess is that is a program that makes it think it's an older OS so it runs Tr1 am i right plz explain.

:wve:

We're testing Virtual PC 2007 that runs XP as a guest OS under Vista RC2. I asked Joseph to help me test my idea since I have not installed Vista yet on my computer. If this will work well then we will be able to play Tomb Raider (and other older games) under Vista without having dual boot. Dual boot is good but it has some disadvantages especially when you try installing older OS on a modern computer.

Does that answers your question? :wve:

Joseph
18-11-06, 03:53
Installed TR1/DgVoodoo. Problem: DgVoodoosetup menu: it's impossible to reach the OK button! :D This screen is 800x600 by default and resizing options only available in extra toolset. On the download location they don't offer this extra toolset.
Now i made my DgVoodoo settings but can't click OK! :hea: :D

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 03:57
How about changing the resolution of the guest OS (XP) the same way you do it on XP machine (right click on the desktop - Properties - Settings)?

That should change the resolution of the VM's (not the window itself) and you should be able to see everything... I hope.

Joseph
18-11-06, 04:00
http://www.jozefdekkers.nl/Trforum/Computer/dgv-setupmenu-toobig.jpg

Joseph
18-11-06, 04:01
No, it IS already at the lowest available resolution which is: 600x600 / 56 Hz

EDIT! Stupid me!:hea: It must be a higher resolution. Now it's at 1024x768 and problem solved. :D

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 04:03
I don't remember but is the dgVoodoo window resizable? I can see the buttons at the top of your screen. If it is you can drag it down a bit and resize it (if changing the resolution doesn't work).

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 04:04
No, it IS already at the lowest available resolution which is: 600x600 / 56 Hz.

Try higher resolution (if possible) for the guest OS inside the VM. It will make everything smaller on your screen.

Make the VM active then while inside XP right click on its desktop - properties - settings and select maybe 1024x768. Not for the VPC itself but for the guest XP... just like you would do with a real XP computer.

laralives
18-11-06, 04:11
Aaaaaaaaaaah Okay i see...

Btw his edit said he changed it to 1024x768
and now he can see it :)

:wve:

Joseph
18-11-06, 04:13
OK. I heard Lara walking, but the screen was all black with purple and green stripes, had to end the game as a blind man. Should install the ATI drivers first i think. :)

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 04:16
OK... here where the things are getting a bit difficult, Joseph... you can't install any other drivers since VPC emulates a ready set of hardware. But TR should run since the graphics card emulated is supported by the game.

Joseph
18-11-06, 04:20
YeS i already saw that! This Virtual XP says i have a S3 Trio32/64 card. :cln:
OK that's easy then: No ATI settings in DgVoodo, but S3 Trio!

K, delete tombraid, redo install ....

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 04:24
Sorry Joseph. Forgot to warn you about that.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 04:26
Aaaaaaaaaaah Okay i see...

Btw his edit said he changed it to 1024x768
and now he can see it :)

:wve:

Thanks. I saw it after I posted. It's easy to miss all the "edits" after a few new posts have been added.

Joseph
18-11-06, 04:32
Hmmm... I replaced the installed Tomb.exe with the S3 one from the CD\Original folder. No luck. :( Yet.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 04:38
Strange. I installed it (on XP as guest OS and VPC 2004) and it worked straight out of the box.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 04:41
Hmmm... I replaced the installed Tomb.exe with the S3 one from the CD\Original folder. No luck. :( Yet.

What if you use the original tomb.exe?

Or this patch from TRC (http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/tr1/fixes.html) site?

Joseph
18-11-06, 04:44
No it says its not compatible. Again trying with the Glide version of tomb.exe from ATRInstaller. Result is: the sound is good. But the screen stays pitch-black during the game.
Oh and NO Eidos intro and fmv... nothing. Straight to the passport screen (audible, but black) without the theme music from the CD (it's not reading it?)

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 04:52
Hmmm... if the TRAI was able to install the game that would mean that it should read the CD.

Joseph
18-11-06, 04:54
Here, this is the best i got sofar:

http://www.jozefdekkers.nl/Trforum/Computer/dgv-virtual-bad.jpg

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 04:57
Check if you can see the CD from My Computer.

Joseph
18-11-06, 05:00
No, original didn't work.


Check if you can see the CD from My Computer.
Of course i can see the CD. I can explore, why?

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 05:05
Of course i can see the CD. I can explore, why?

Just wanted to make sure that the VM is accessing the CD.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 05:06
Try different resolution, color depth etc. in XP settings.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 05:15
...without the theme music from the CD (it's not reading it?)

VDMSound should take care of that.

Joseph
18-11-06, 05:46
Just installed Additional Options for VM. No need to download, it is inbuilt and you virtually install them from the virtual cd-rom. :)
I can now resize my screen at any size. :) How do you like that?! :tmb:

Joseph
18-11-06, 06:05
Wait. I should have formatted in FAT. This is NTFS,... of course Win98 didn't work. :whi:

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 06:15
That's great and thanks for the info :tmb:

By the way, have you try installing the game without using TRAI?

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 06:18
Wait. I should have formatted in FAT. This is NTFS,... of course Win98 didn't work. :whi:

Yes, I suspect that could have something to do with 98 "refusing" to install :)

[Edit]: This time I would try installing TR without any "extras" first. If, and when, it works then reinstall it using TRAI.

Joseph
18-11-06, 06:22
That's great and thanks for the info :tmb:

By the way, have you try installing the game without using TRAI?Yes i tried that. No-go. :(

I just put the VM-XP desktop to 16 bit. Now i have all sorts of screenresolutions up to 1600x1200! :tmb: And then also dragging to any size by the edge.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 06:24
I asked a wrong question, Joseph. "Normal" installation wouldn't work on XP anyway. On 98 yes, but not on XP.

Joseph
18-11-06, 06:25
YAY!!!!!! :jmp: success..!

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 06:26
I just put the VM-XP desktop to 16 bit. Now i have all sorts of screenresolutions up to 1600x1200! :tmb: And then also dragging to any size by the edge.

How about TR? Does it work?

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 06:27
YAY!!!!!! :jmp: success..!

What??? What??? My suggestion to play with XP settings worked?

Joseph
18-11-06, 06:29
Installing TR1 at the moment.... :D

http://www.jozefdekkers.nl/Trforum/Computer/installing-virtual-tr1.JPG

Joseph
18-11-06, 06:30
What??? What??? My suggestion to play with XP settings worked?No, setting the desktop to 16 bit worked! You inspired me i guess... :D

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 06:31
I'm trying to help from memory. I new there had to be a problem with the XP settings since I had to play with them too on my VM XP but not on VM 98.

Joseph
18-11-06, 06:34
:jmp: Including ingame sound! :jmp:

(not yet the cd sound...)

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 06:34
No, setting the desktop to 16 bit worked! You inspired me i guess... :D

That's what I meant by "play with the setting" (desktop resolution, color depth, etc.). I just wasn't sure which one would work in VPC 2007.

Great work, Joseph :tmb:

Any chance for a couple of screenshots?

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 06:35
(not yet the cd sound...)

OK... that can be a bit tricky.

The VDMSound is installed and the CD is in the first CD drive, right? (Just checking).

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 06:39
Joseph - I noticed that you're in and out of the forum. If you rebooting the entire system after creating a VM or applying any changes to it I don't think you need to do that. You just need to reboot the VM not your computer. :)

Joseph
18-11-06, 07:02
OK. This is the situation:
i am playing TR1 from the standard TOMB.EXE from the cd.
(glide version doesn't work: black screen.)

1. Installed TR1 via ATRInstaller (it uses the glide version).
2. replaced that one in tombraid with the normal tomb.exe from the cd.
3. ran tombraid\install.exe with vdmsound. See screenshot above.
4. then i got sound and vision. But this is not dgvoodoo. This is TR original running on VDMSound.
BTW: 32bit, 16bit, doesn't matter.

Don't worry Lord: the VM-situation is not the same PC i am visiting the forum with. working on 2 pc's atm.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 07:09
So the game looks like the original version (pixelated)?

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 07:15
By the way, how the 98 installation is coming along?

Joseph
18-11-06, 07:48
The game is pixelated same as in win 98 the old days.

Nope... win98 install doesn't work at all.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 08:06
OK... that's not gonna fly.

The only hope would be trying Glidos since it works a bit different than dgVoodoo, has high resolution textures and it can "pull" the sound directly from the hard drive.

Joseph
18-11-06, 08:29
experimenting with Glidos.

Result: 'warning: you are running in a non-accelerated OpenGL!!!' > Click OK. > Glidos stops with message: Read Failure.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 08:43
OK... now we know. I read some time ago that Virtual PC team was considering adding 3D acceleration support to Virtual PC 2007. As of yet VPC 2007 beta does not support 3D. Well, there goes this idea.

Dual boot (Vista - XP) is the only way for TR players to have some decent graphics in TR I. Unless someone comes up with a better solution.

Thanks for trying, Joseph.

Joseph
18-11-06, 08:57
Ah that would be it then. :) I see. Pity, i had the feeling i was close...:(

Anyway, the pleasure was on my side, Lord Icon. :wve:

Joseph
18-11-06, 09:11
VPC 2007 beta does not support 3D??? Well i just installed TR2. Playing now.
But not well: lot of freezings. Unplayable...

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 09:20
They said they consider 3D acceleration support in VPC 2007. Then they said no 3D support in beta yet. Then I've read that they've managed to run Vista with Aero (glass effect) on, which needs 3D acceleration, in VPC 2007.

That's why I asked you to try it. I thought it would work.

I'm gonna do some more research. I'm trying to download VPC 2007 but I can't create an account to sign in. When I get it I'll install it on XP with XP as guest and go through it.

Joseph
18-11-06, 09:31
I could upload it for you if you want.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 09:51
That would be great. Thanks, Joseph :tmb:

Joseph
18-11-06, 09:52
Let me know when you have it please, then i'll take it down again. :)

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 10:02
Got it. Thanks a lot :tmb:

I'll work on it in the morning. It's already 4 AM here and I need some rest.

See you later :wve:

Joseph
18-11-06, 10:03
Enjoy! :wve:

Zebius
18-11-06, 13:48
Hi Joseph, and Lord Icon! :)

Are you willing to test just released new versions of VDos32 and Glidos with TR1 on Vista? I'm going to try it in the evening.
http://www.vdos32.com/
Read all instructions first.

Feedback is welcome here and at Vogons forums:
http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=13835


EDIT:
vdos32.exe requires unlocking on-line. I can't do any tests right now, because my RC2 is expired :(
VDMSound is still needed.
Treat these programs as beta versions.

Zebius
18-11-06, 20:11
Ok, I made a clean install of RC2 ;)

I made some tests with Vdos32, TR1 and Vista. Vdos32 version 0.4, Glidos version 1.34.
Here are my results:

1. System: Vista RC2, Athlon64 2800+, 2GB RAM, 6600GT with Forceware 96.85, built-in Realtek ALC'97 sound chip with beta drivers. VDMSound installed (without it the game just crashed at the beginning).

2. Vdos32 and TR1 - software mode - FMVs are very stuttery and jerky (problem with sound), because of that they play in slow motion, gameplay is a little jerky, all sounds are jerky too, they produce echo effect (especially gunshots). No environmental sounds. Only window mode is available.

3. Vdos32 and TR1 with Glidos - FMVs behave the same way as above, gameplay is a little jerky too - low fps, jerky sounds with echo effect. No environmental sounds. Audio-pack works, high-res textures work too, though it looks that AA and anisotropic filtering forced by drivers don't work.

Built-in Vista Forceware drivers (earlier than 96.85) caused the game didn't work in OpenGL mode at all, and psvoodoo mode had lots of missing textures.

Just for curiosity, I checked VDos32 with TR1 on Windows XP and it works like a charm - no stuttering at all.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 20:25
Jak sie masz Zebius :wve:

From what I can see, from your tests of VDos32, it has still a long way to go. Although, as you said, it works like a charm on XP it has way too many problems on Vista. And that's not good since we need a way to play TR 1 on Vista and not on XP. There are already ways to make TR 1 run on XP and run very well I may add.

Even Paul said that it's gonna take a while for VDos32 to be able to run more complicated programs like TR 1.

As you can see from our previous posts we were trying to make TR 1 run on VPC 2007. That didn't go all that well. It runs in "standard" mode but, for now at least, that's about it.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 20:34
Joseph :wve:

I just installed VPC 2007. It has a lot of improvements over the 2004 version.

I installed XP (my own edition). Yes, I know... I couldn't resist but try my new XP edition I made a few days ago. I "shaved" over 280MB out of the original installaion. Runs perfectly.

I also installed 98 with no problems whatsoever. Damn, I've forgotten how many reboots there were before installation was completed.

I haven't tested TR yet. But I will do so as soon as I can.

Joseph
18-11-06, 20:51
Hey Zebius! I somehow felt you would join into this thread. :D Thanks for the report. I'm sure some day it is going to work on Vista. I'll try the new VDos32.

Joseph
18-11-06, 20:52
Hi Lord. :wve: Did you manage to install W98 on NTFS? Or is that FAT you're working on.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 20:57
Joseph,

Below I'm gonna post a small "guide" on how to install 98 on VPC. Maybe that will help.

Hold on.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 21:19
It's FAT32, Joseph.

To install 98 on VPC without any problems (worked for me):

First of all remove the 98 VM you already have and then,

1. Create a VM (call it whatever you like i.e. 98).

2. Assign memory (I did 128MB you can increase it later) and set the new virtual hard drive size (I did 10GB). Do not use any of the existing ones.

3. Before you start your new VM insert Win98 boot disk (brings old memories, doesn't it). Then boot your 98 VM.

4. In the first menu select "... with CD support" (don't remember the exact option... but it's the second selection).

5. After everthing is loaded in the command prompt type: fdisk and hit "Enter" (I trust you remember how to use fdisk). After you're done with fdisk reboot.

6. Insert the Win98 CD in the CD drive.

7. In the command prompt type: cd d: and hit "Enter".

8. While in D: drive (CD) (some Win98 CDs have the fomat command in win98 directory... in that case first type: cd win98 then "Enter" and then) type: format c:/s and hit "Enter". Wait untill format is completed and then reboot.

9. Now again type: cd d: and hit "Enter".

10. While in D: drive (CD) type: cd win98 and hit "Enter" again.

11. Now in the command prompt type: setup and hit "Enter" one more time.

12. Watch the Win98 being installed.

I could have forgotten something since I'm typing this little guide from memory but not likely.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 21:28
OK... I added some extra steps. Now the guide should be completed.

[Edit]: I forgot to mention that depending on your boot disk some have format command on them. In that case you could fromat your VHD from your boot disk and then go from step 6 directly to step 9.

Joseph
18-11-06, 22:28
So you virtually format the Vhdd from NTFS to FAT?

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 22:44
When you create a new VHD the drive is not formated at all. The VPC does not "pre-format" it for you. It's like brand new hard drive you buy in the stores. You have to manually format it.

You will not notice that when installing XP since XP does it for you. That's not the case with 98.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 22:49
By the way, I just installed the addons and I like the drag-and-drop copy files from the host PC to the VPC.

Joseph
18-11-06, 23:02
Yes that is cool. But i see no reason for all this hassle because the games don't run on it anywhere near acceptably anyway.
For real W98 or ME, i have my oldest PC (however that is parked without a PSU atm).
For games, VM is no solution.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 23:07
Yes, I agree. I'm using VPC for testing mostly.

It was just an idea.

Joseph
18-11-06, 23:33
I must say i had high hopes last night. Now i see what VM actually is, that hope is gone.

Lord Icon
18-11-06, 23:56
I just tested TR on 98. It's a no go. Installs just fine but it will not run in Glidos without 3D acceleration support. It runs in "normal" mode but that's about it.

VMs are not gonna fly. They're good for testing things but not games. No reason for wasting more time on it.

Lord Icon
19-11-06, 07:32
I'll stick to my current way of dealing with games. I have a new system with XP (soon with dual boot XP/Vista) for all the new games and the games that were retrofitted. And an "old" one with 98 for the games that "refuse" to run on XP/Vista.

In my opinion is the best way to deal with the compatibility issues in games. Obviously it's always better when they run in their native environment.

But I still like to try/test different things.

Joseph
21-11-06, 20:03
Update: download the latest DirectX9.0c for Vista (version 10-10-2006). HERE (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=2DA43D38-DB71-4C1B-BC6A-9B6652CD92A3&displaylang=en&Hash=Ih5ph3%2bXSvIofXsgmH2F9M7jKFy9lSq4T0ufgbFA6t0 tE4C9%2bUJf1sRmGlqPYyxg%2bZTZBiG0%2fWqEodeBc5xD0Q% 3d%3d). :tmb:

raiderfun
22-11-06, 16:08
Update: download the latest DirectX9.0c for Vista (version 10-10-2006). HERE (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=2DA43D38-DB71-4C1B-BC6A-9B6652CD92A3&displaylang=en&Hash=Ih5ph3%2bXSvIofXsgmH2F9M7jKFy9lSq4T0ufgbFA6t0 tE4C9%2bUJf1sRmGlqPYyxg%2bZTZBiG0%2fWqEodeBc5xD0Q% 3d%3d). :tmb:
We must have the Genuine Version windows :D :D

This thread is very coool ! :p

Joseph
22-11-06, 17:52
We must have the Genuine Version windows Most of us do, raiderfun. I have it anyway.

raiderfun
23-11-06, 19:38
Most of us do, raiderfun. I have it anyway.
I really would like to have the internet in my PC :p :p :jmp: :jmp: :D

Lord Icon
28-11-06, 15:47
Joseph my friend,

Are you up for one more attempt of running Tomb Raider I on Vista? And in glide mode?

I think I have a solution (which worked perfectly on XP) but since I don't have Vista your PC will be the testing ground.

What do you say?

Joseph
28-11-06, 15:50
Yes of course. Have to go now, be back in 20 minutes. :)

Lord Icon
28-11-06, 15:52
VDos32 and Glidos will (could) be the solution... but... there are two small problems:

1. VDos32 for Vista is not ready yet.

2. Glidos is not free. Paul indicated in one of his posts that when/if VDos32 is ready he was thinking about charging for it too.

So we need an free alternative.

I was playing around and I stumble upon DosBox with Glide support. As I said in my post above it works nicely on XP.

[Edit]: I just saw your post... I'll list the files you'll need while you're gone.

Lord Icon
28-11-06, 16:02
OK... here will go.

You'll need:

DosBox CVS Glide (http://xbbs2.tsclub.net/skin1/download.php?code=ykhwong&id=19&idx=500&filename=20061120.rar)
Glide2 Add-on (http://ykhwong.x-y.net/cvs/frame.html) (it's the second add-on on the page called Glide2x OVL)
Voodoo Rush for Tomb Raider I (http://www.smokeypoint.org/rushtomb1.zip)

All downloads are very small and you can get them in two seconds.

The guide is coming in the next post.

Joseph
28-11-06, 16:19
Your second link brings me to Dos Box Daum Cafe (http://ykhwong.x-y.net/cvs/frame.html). :confused:

Lord Icon
28-11-06, 16:29
Hmm... I don't get it. Anyway, go to Data on the top menu then select Glide2x.OVL.

Lord Icon
28-11-06, 16:33
OK... here is the guide:

1. Install Tomb Raider I (if you haven't already). Original installation and not for Glidos. If the game is already installed leave the CD in the drive.

2. Unpack the DosBox to a folder (no installation here). Create a folder on your desktop and name it "DosBox" (just for the testing).

3. In the DosBox folder you will find a file called dosbox.conf. Open it with notepad.

4. Scroll down untill you see [glide] section. There you will find a line glide=false. Change the word false to true. Save and close.

5. After downloading the add-on (already upacked) copy it to the TOMBRAID directory.

6. Upack the Voodoo Rush patch and replace the original tomb.exe with this one.

7. Start the DosBox. You will see in the DosBox window Drives menu. Go there and mount the first CD drive (whatever drive letter you have for it).

8. Now we have to mount the hard drive. Since mounting the entire C drive is not recommended in the command prompt type:
mount c c:\tombraid. This way it will only mount the TOMBRAID folder as C drive.

9. Now go to C by typing c: and hit Enter.

10. Type: tomb and hit Enter. Hopefuly you will be able to play the game in glide mode.

Lord Icon
28-11-06, 16:34
After you're done please report back. I'm interested if this will work on Vista. As I said it works perfectly on XP.

Joseph
28-11-06, 17:27
I first installed VDMSound of course, then the game. Followed all your steps.
8. Now we have to mount the hard drive. Since mounting the entire C drive is not recommended in the command prompt type:
mount c c:\tombraid.

At this point. The command prompt says: " 'mount' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file." :confused:
[EDIT. Wait, i used the Windows command prompt, i guess you meant the DosBox command prompt (you didn't say that). OK, done and now that one says: "Drive C is mounted as local directory c:\tombraid\" :) I'll proceed. ]

Joseph
28-11-06, 17:33
It is working!!! :jmp: Sound and vision!!! :D

But only in a small window...

And at the end of the intro with Larson i get a warning: "You are running in a Non-Accelerated OpenGL!!! Things can become really slow." I click OK. Then a message: "DosBox has stopped working." :( 'Send report?' I click Cancel... :( Finished... :(

Lord Icon
28-11-06, 18:10
I'm back. I had people in my house.

Strange. I know that sometimes the DosBox freezes for a few seconds. But never had this problem. I'm playing this now.

Joseph
28-11-06, 18:13
The "You are running in a Non-Accelerated OpenGL!!! Things can become really slow." -message i received as well when trying Glidos, you remember? I think this is the same thing... :(

Lord Icon
28-11-06, 18:15
But only in a small window...

You can make the DosBox run in fullscreen mode. But will get to this after (if) we fix the problem with the game.

Lord Icon
28-11-06, 18:16
The "You are running in a Non-Accelerated OpenGL!!! Things can become really slow." -message i received as well when trying Glidos, you remember? I think this is the same thing... :(

Could be the drivers? Or the OpenGL itself? How's the OpenGL support in Vista?

Lord Icon
28-11-06, 18:19
[Update]: Just finished with Larson. Runs fine on XP.

We need more Vista machines for testing. Where is Zebius when you need him?

Joseph
28-11-06, 18:23
Could be the drivers? Or the OpenGL itself? How's the OpenGL support in Vista?Right, i could test on my other PC with the GF7800GT. :) Starting that up now...

Lord Icon
28-11-06, 18:25
Right, i could test on my other PC with the GF7800GT. :) Starting that up now...

Great. Awaiting results :)

Lord Icon
28-11-06, 18:36
Zebius is online. Hopefuly he'll drop by.

Zebius
28-11-06, 18:42
Hi guys!

I'm sorry, I can't help you with testing. This week I'm going abroad for 5 months to earn money and I will not have access to the internet.

I already made some tests with Glidos and VDos32, you can view it here:
http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=13835&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

But as Lord Icon said, Vdos32 will not be free when a final version is released (probably), this new beta 0.4 version requires free unlocking.


I wish you good luck and see you in 5 months :wve:

Lord Icon
28-11-06, 18:49
Good luck Zebius and see you soon :wve:

raiderfun
28-11-06, 19:24
It is working!!! :jmp: Sound and vision!!! :D

But only in a small window...

And at the end of the intro with Larson i get a warning: "You are running in a Non-Accelerated OpenGL!!! Things can become really slow." I click OK. Then a message: "DosBox has stopped working." :( 'Send report?' I click Cancel... :( Finished... :(
Congrats Joseph , i'm very happy for you ! :tmb: :jmp: You're really LUCKY ! :p
But i may be luckier than you because on my Windows version , i NEVER receive the send report message :D .

But anyways , couldn't the problem came from setup:confused:

Joseph
29-11-06, 03:27
OK. Tried on my Pentium 650 HT / GF7800GT -system. I first installed VDMSound of course, then the game. I found out Display > Fullscreen :o and that works. And what excels is the sound: absolutely cracklingfree.
BUT the business stops after the Imperial Hotel Calcutta FMV with Larson. This time no error message at all.

Just messing around: this time doubleclicked on TOMB [shortcut to MS-DOS Program]. Message appears:
"16 bit MS/DOS Subsystem.
TOMB
This system does not support fullscreen mode. Choose 'Close' to terminate the application."
OK, i Close.
Also, doubleclick on TombVDM results in message:
"16 bit MS/DOS Subsystem.
TombVDM
This system does not support fullscreen mode. Choose 'Close' to terminate the application."

OK. Second attempt. Launch the game from DOSBox. This time i leave Display at 'Normal' (no fullscreen). After the Imperial Hotel Calcutta FMV with Larson i see the Passport screen! :D [however without the Theme music.:( ] The Peru game intro.:) The game starts! I play! :D
BUT there is no environmental sound. :(
The Dosbox display is such a small window! :(
So, i again (during the game) click Display > Fullscreen. What happens: i get to see fullscreen the last frame of the Peru Intro-FMV (Lara's face frontal, staring) as still image.
I press the Alt key. I hear Lara jumping, underneath the still image.
I press Ctrl+F1 (the keymapper shortcut) to escape from this situation.
Now that the game is minimized, i read in the DOSBox Status Window what happened:

CONFIG:Loading primary settings from config file dosbox.conf
MIDI:Opened device:win32
MSCDEX installed.
Drive I is mounted as CD-ROM I:\
Glide:Resolution set to:640x480, LFB at 0x872000
Glide:GLIDE_PageHandler installed for 0x872000 (2162 + 150 pages)
Glide:Unsupported glide call 135
Glide:Resetting page handler for page 2162 (150 pages)
Glide:Resolution set to:640x480, LFB at 0x872000
Glide:GLIDE_PageHandler installed for 0x919000 (2329 + 150 pages)
Glide:Unsupported glide call 135

I used TaskManager to end the DOSBox process.

raiderfun
29-11-06, 11:59
O_o Too many problems! :eek:

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 13:55
I first installed VDMSound of course, then the game.

Are you sure that DosBox needs VDMSound?

I found out Display > Fullscreen

You can set the DosBox to start automatically in fullscreen mode. The setting is in the dosbox.conf file. In [sdl] section - line fullscreen=false change to true.

BUT the business stops after the Imperial Hotel Calcutta FMV with Larson. This time no error message at all.

It should keep running. Do you have any other programs running in the background that could interfere with it?

Launch the game from DOSBox.

That's the best way to start some games in the DosBox.

So, i again (during the game) click Display > Fullscreen. What happens: i get to see fullscreen the last frame of the Peru Intro-FMV (Lara's face frontal, staring) as still image.

You switched to fullscreen during the game play. That will have the "freezing" effect. The game could freeze for a few seconds. The best thing is to set the DosBox to start in fullscreen mode. I guess. The thing here is that (if it works) all the mounting will have to be done through the command prompt.

Now the messages.

CONFIG:Loading primary settings from config file dosbox.conf - OK

MIDI:Opened device:win32 - OK

MSCDEX installed. - OK

Drive I is mounted as CD-ROM I:\ - OK

Glide:Resolution set to:640x480, LFB at 0x872000 - OK (here you can set the resolution higher in the dosbox.conf file).

Glide:GLIDE_PageHandler installed for 0x872000 (2162 + 150 pages) - OK

Glide:Unsupported glide call 135 - OK (I get the same message but the game runs just fine).

Glide:Resetting page handler for page 2162 (150 pages) - OK

Glide:Resolution set to:640x480, LFB at 0x872000 - Same as above.

Glide:GLIDE_PageHandler installed for 0x919000 (2329 + 150 pages) - OK

Glide:Unsupported glide call 135 - Same as above.

So far this is the closest we've got to run TRI on Vista.

Joseph
29-11-06, 14:23
Hi Lord. :) Just tried again. I do NOT start Dosbox fullscreen because then i am not able to reach the menu to mount the cd-rom drive. So i first mount that. Then select Display: fullscreen. Then mount c:\tombraid and the rest of your instructions.
Result: after the Calcutta FMV, the game just stops.

Are you sure that DosBox needs VDMSound?No idea (not familiar with DosBox), i just thought it had to be installed.

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 14:26
The command for mounting the cdrom (in your case) is:

mount i I:\ -t cdrom -usecd 0

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 14:31
By the way Joseph. I tried to change to fullscreen during the game play and it does freeze even on XP. I guess whatever you do you must do it before you start playing the game.

Joseph
29-11-06, 14:34
Well that's two methods for the same result.

I edited the fullscreen=0 to fullscreen=1 in the OpenGlide ini file.
The good news is that now the game passes the calcutta FMV to reach the passport screen but it is black! and still no intro music. I blindly select new game (i can hear the passport pages and know what to do), then the Peru FMV runs normally, then the game starts fullscreen BUT COMPLETELY BLACK! I can hear Lara running and jumping, shooting.

So, however the FMV's do run (fullscreen like normal), the display of the game itself is disturbed, causing 100% blackness.

:confused:

Joseph
29-11-06, 14:35
By the way Joseph. I tried to change to fullscreen during the game play and it does freeze even on XP. I guess whatever you do you must do it before you start playing the game.But i told you: i DO go to fullscreen before launching the game: I do NOT start Dosbox fullscreen because then i am not able to reach the menu to mount the cd-rom drive. So i first mount that. Then select Display: fullscreen. Then mount c:\tombraid and the rest of your instructions.
I don't think this causes the blackness, do you?

Joseph
29-11-06, 14:41
WAIT! I GOT IT RUNNING!!!! The demo started playing fullscreen. I reached the Passport screen fullscreen! :tmb: Selected new game. Then DosBox minimized itself. I thought it had failed. But i got it back up.

Running TR1 fullscreen on Vista! :tmb: :jmp:

Joseph
29-11-06, 14:46
Interesting for-last line in DosBox Status Window:

Warning: file c:\tombraid\settings.dat exists and failed to open in write mode.
Please remove write protection.

I will do as it says. ;)

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 15:05
Yes you said that.

I guess it would better if we make everything work first even if it is in windowed mode and then try to make it work in fullscreen mode.

From what you say there is still no music.

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 15:13
Oh, I haven't seen your last posts. I hope you're writing everything down so we can add some extra setup details about setting up the DosBox itself.

My guide will work for starting and playing the game. But we need your input about setting the DosBox up for Vista. Let's say the "fine tune up" for Vista use :)

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 15:16
Do you have music, Joseph?

Joseph
29-11-06, 15:20
I can only reproduce the success slowly: at first, the display stays 100% black again. After many times fiddling with Esc. and Enter keys, at last the demo starts playing again so i have the display back. This means that the game is somehow struggling to be displayed at first, and needs a minute or 3 to succeed.
Also, the mouse pointer is on foreground until i click, then it disappears.

Joseph
29-11-06, 15:22
Also, the game does not look very good: heavy aliasing. No surprise, in fact this is a 640x480 displayed fullscreen 1600x1200. But to be honest: doesn't look bad either. :)

Joseph
29-11-06, 15:26
Do you have music, Joseph?No intro music, no environmental sounds, so all the tracks from CD not playing.

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 15:34
Also, the game does not look very good: heavy aliasing. No surprise, in fact this is a 640x480 displayed fullscreen 1600x1200. But to be honest: doesn't look bad either. :)

Try changing the resolution from 640x480 to a higher one. Maybe 800x600 for starters. That would be in dosbox.conf file in [sdl] section. Also check the [vga] section for other settings.

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 15:38
As for music... it's so strange since DosBox emulates the Sound Blaster card. So you should have sound. That would be in dosbox.conf file as well. So try the settings in the [sblaster] section. Check also the [mixer] and [midi] sections.

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 15:50
Joseph, I just got a word from one of the DosBox Glide creators and he said that fullscreen mode in not implemented in glide mode. I guess that's why there are some problems when running the game.

Joseph
29-11-06, 15:51
put full rights to Users onto the Dat file. The message does not appear again. ;)

I changed the resolution (it was set at "original") to 1600x1200. :) Maybe slightly better (not sure), but still aliased. [EDIT: OK, i just read your post. I'll put it back then.]

Still: takes very long time to get the game's display visible: after calcutta FMV, blackness sets in, i only hear that i am on the passport screen but don't see it.... i let the demo start automatically...then i minimize the game with the Windows key...then i maximize it again... then i have fullscreen display and i'm in the game! I need to click once to get rid of the mousepointer.

Joseph
29-11-06, 15:59
OK: when i exit game, this time the 640x480 Window:
CPU : Dynamic 8500, Frameskip 0, DOSBOX
stays on desktop awaiting a new command after C:\>
all i have to do is type
tomb
and hit Enter,
then the game starts the intro FMV in the 640x480 screen, and runs there until i hit the Esc. key. Then it immediately switches to fullscreen, with full display and i can play. :)

This all is still with the resolution in dosbox.conf file (it was set at "original") to 1600x1200. I have not changed that back yet.

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 16:01
We're talking about fullscreen mode, right? No "blackness" problems in windowed mode?

I'm still waiting for answer about how to make the damned window bigger. If we can increase the window size, let's say, to the desktop size we will not need fullscreen.

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 16:02
Then it immediately switches to fullscreen, with full display and i can play. :)

Well, if it works... :)

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 16:09
OK, about the windowed mode. We can't change it. Glide games control that and since Voodoo 1 did not support more than 640x480, that is the most we will get.

So let's focus on fullscreen and if it's possible to dublicate what you already did everytime you start the game.

Joseph
29-11-06, 16:11
Yes but still no sound from the CD. :confused:

So let's focus on fullscreen But i HAVE fullscreen, as i explained.

Joseph
29-11-06, 16:25
OK, now i have practically no "blackness moments" anymore. I forgot what i changed this time, but i can compare later with the original. I have to go now, back later tonight.

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 16:36
Yes Joseph I know you have the fullscreen. I said to focus on it to see if it works every time we start the game.

See you later buddy.

Joseph
29-11-06, 17:48
Yes it keeps the same:

Launch DOSBox
Mount drive I as Cd-rom drive
select Display > Fullscreen
type mount c c:\tombraid [enter]
type C:[enter]
type tomb [enter]
game launches fullscreen. Intro FMV Calcutta Hotel.
Blackness.
Minimize DosBox (by Windows-key)
Back on desktop: mouse is gone.
Again hitting the Windows key brings mouse back on desktop
Maximize DosBox (by clicking on the minimized bar).
Passport screen is black
After a few seconds starts the auto-demo and i have display!
I hit Enter. Passport screen is visible and 100% OK. Except that mousepointer is at foreground and moveable.
Click once makes mousepointer disappear
Game can be loaded and played.
Sadly, only without sound from the CD.

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 17:57
Well, I played with the settings of the window itself and I got it resized. The thing is that after starting the game the window is much bigger than was set to be when FMVs play and when the level starts the window goes back to 640x480 or 800x600.

For me it would be enough if I get the damned window under control. If I can make it stay the same time at all times (1024x768 for example) I wouldn't need the fullscreen.

I reported it. Hopefuly I get some answer soon.

Joseph
29-11-06, 18:08
But you need to edit the OpenGlide ini file as well.

I have:
Configuration File for OpenGLide
Info:
Priority goes from 0(HIGH) to 5(IDLE)
Texture Memory goes from 2 to 32
Frame Buffer Memory goes from 2 to 16
All other fields are boolean with 1(TRUE) and 0(FALSE)
Version=0.09rc8
[Options]
WrapperPriority=0
CreateWindow=0
InitFullScreen=1
EnableMipMaps=0
IgnorePaletteChange=0
Wrap565to5551=1
EnablePrecisionFix=1
EnableMultiTextureEXT=1
EnablePaletteEXT=1
EnableVertexArrayEXT=0
TextureMemorySize=32
FrameBufferMemorySize=16


DosBox config:
[sdl]
# fullscreen -- Start dosbox directly in fullscreen.
# fulldouble -- Use double buffering in fullscreen.
# fullresolution -- What resolution to use for fullscreen: original or fixed size (e.g. 1024x768).
# windowresolution -- Scale the window to this size IF the output device supports hardware scaling.
# output -- What to use for output: surface,overlay,opengl,openglnb,openglhq,ddraw,dir ect3d.
# autolock -- Mouse will automatically lock, if you click on the screen.
# sensitiviy -- Mouse sensitivity.
# waitonerror -- Wait before closing the console if dosbox has an error.
# priority -- Priority levels for dosbox: lowest,lower,normal,higher,highest,pause (when not focussed).
# Second entry behind the comma is for when dosbox is not focused/minimized.
# mapperfile -- File used to load/save the key/event mappings from.
# pixelshader (direct3d) -- Pixelshader program to use for resizing: none,point.fx,bilinear.fx,scale2x.fx,2xsai.fx,
# 2xSaI_sRGB.fx,Cartoon.fx,GS2x.fx,GS4x.fx,GS4xColor .fx,GS4xColorFilter.fx,GS4xColorScale.fx,
# GS4xFilter.fx,GS4xScale.fx,Matrix.fx,MCGreen.fx,MC Orange.fx,scale2x_ps14.fx,Sketch.fx.
# usescancodes -- Avoid usage of symkeys, might not work on all operating systems.
# overscan -- Width of overscan border.
fullscreen=false
fulldouble=false
fullresolution=original
windowresolution=1280x1024
output=surface
autolock=true
sensitivity=100
waitonerror=true
priority=higher,normal
mapperfile=mapper.txt
pixelshader=bilinear.fx
usescancodes=true
overscan=0

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 18:13
Yes I know. I was talking about windowed mode. Anyway.

I have:

[Options]
WrapperPriority=2
CreateWindow=0
InitFullScreen=0
EnableMipMaps=0
IgnorePaletteChange=0
Wrap565to5551=1
EnablePrecisionFix=1
EnableMultiTextureEXT=1
EnablePaletteEXT=1
EnableVertexArrayEXT=0
TextureMemorySize=16
FrameBufferMemorySize=8

It's in XP but it works.

dosbox.conf

[sdl]
# fullscreen -- Start dosbox directly in fullscreen.
# fulldouble -- Use double buffering in fullscreen.
# fullresolution -- What resolution to use for fullscreen: original or fixed size (e.g. 1024x768).
# windowresolution -- Scale the window to this size IF the output device supports hardware scaling.
# output -- What to use for output: surface,overlay,opengl,openglnb,openglhq,ddraw,dir ect3d.
# autolock -- Mouse will automatically lock, if you click on the screen.
# sensitiviy -- Mouse sensitivity.
# waitonerror -- Wait before closing the console if dosbox has an error.
# priority -- Priority levels for dosbox: lowest,lower,normal,higher,highest,pause (when not focussed).
# Second entry behind the comma is for when dosbox is not focused/minimized.
# mapperfile -- File used to load/save the key/event mappings from.
# pixelshader (direct3d) -- Pixelshader program to use for resizing: none,point.fx,bilinear.fx,scale2x.fx,2xsai.fx,
# 2xSaI_sRGB.fx,Cartoon.fx,GS2x.fx,GS4x.fx,GS4xColor .fx,GS4xColorFilter.fx,GS4xColorScale.fx,
# GS4xFilter.fx,GS4xScale.fx,Matrix.fx,MCGreen.fx,MC Orange.fx,scale2x_ps14.fx,Sketch.fx.
# usescancodes -- Avoid usage of symkeys, might not work on all operating systems.
# overscan -- Width of overscan border.
fullscreen=false
fulldouble=false
fullresolution=800x600
windowscreen=true
windowresolution=1024x768
output=direct3d
autolock=true
sensitivity=100
waitonerror=true
priority=higher,normal
mapperfile=mapper.txt
pixelshader=bilinear.fx
usescancodes=true
overscan=0


[mixer]
# nosound -- Enable silent mode, sound is still emulated though.
# rate -- Mixer sample rate, setting any devices higher than this will
# probably lower their sound quality.
# blocksize -- Mixer block size, larger blocks might help sound stuttering
# but sound will also be more lagged.
# prebuffer -- How many milliseconds of data to keep on top of the blocksize.
nosound=false
rate=22050
blocksize=2048
prebuffer=10

[midi]
# mpu401 -- Type of MPU-401 to emulate: none, uart or intelligent.
# device -- Device that will receive the MIDI data from MPU-401.
# This can be default,alsa,oss,win32,coreaudio,mt32,none.
# mt32rate -- Sample rate of MT32 emulation
# config -- Special configuration options for the device. In Windows put
# the id of the device you want to use. See README for details.
mpu401=intelligent
device=default
mt32rate=22050
config=

[sblaster]
# sbtype -- Type of sblaster to emulate:none,sb1,sb2,sbpro1,sbpro2,sb16.
# sbbase,irq,dma,hdma -- The IO/IRQ/DMA/High DMA address of the soundblaster.
# mixer -- Allow the soundblaster mixer to modify the dosbox mixer.
# oplmode -- Type of OPL emulation: auto,cms,opl2,dualopl2,opl3.
# On auto the mode is determined by sblaster type.
# All OPL modes are 'Adlib', except for CMS.
# oplrate -- Sample rate of OPL music emulation.
sbtype=sb16
sbbase=220
irq=7
dma=1
hdma=5
mixer=true
oplmode=auto
oplrate=22050

Joseph
29-11-06, 18:20
I changed the:
TextureMemorySize=32
FrameBufferMemorySize=16
to the highest allowed, why not. :)

After your post i changed to:
WrapperPriority=2

And changed
windowresolution=1280x1024 to: 1600x1200.

No difference.

The good thing is that having run the game once and then Exited, the DosBox 640x480 Window:
CPU : Dynamic 8500, Frameskip 0, DOSBOX
stays on desktop awaiting a new command after C:\>
all i have to do is type
tomb
and hit Enter,
then the game starts the intro FMV in the 640x480 screen, and runs there until i hit the Esc. key. Then it immediately switches to fullscreen, with full display and i can play. :)

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 18:28
As I said: so far this is the closest we've got to having TR running on Vista. Everything else either failed or will cost. I'd say we're doing pretty good.

The thing that left is to find out why the sound doesn't work on Vista. On XP everything works like a charm.

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 18:29
Do you have the same settings I have in [mixer], [midi] and [sblaster] sections?

Joseph
29-11-06, 18:31
Oh you edited. Hmm.. let me see....:pi:

YES but i had other sdl settings then you. Changed to your settings. Result: no difference

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 18:35
Oh you edited. Hmm.. let me see....:pi:

Yeah, that's the problem with editing... it's easy to miss. I'm gonna start posting everything in new posts instead of editing the old ones.

Joseph
29-11-06, 18:40
But i edited! :D

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 18:44
YES but i had other sdl settings then you. Changed to your settings. Result: no difference

[sdl] are screen and keyboard settings. Leave whatever works for you. I'm trying to figure it out why you don't have sound and that would be in [mixer], [midi] and [sblaster] sections.

Joseph
29-11-06, 18:55
Which are still the default settings, the same settings as you have.

Now changed to sbpro2... :pi:
No difference.
Changed midi device to win32... no difference.

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 19:02
Check the file hmiset.cfg in TOMBRAID folder. See what sound device it has listed there.

Joseph
29-11-06, 19:06
hmiset.cfg in TOMBRAID folder:


[DIGITAL]
DeviceName = Sound Blaster 16/AWE32
DeviceIRQ = 7
DeviceDMA = 1
DevicePort = 0x220
DeviceID = 0xe016
[MIDI]
DeviceName = No MIDI Device
DevicePort = 0xffffffff
DeviceID = 0xffffffff

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 19:18
You still can hear gunshots, footsteps and the other sounds, right? What's missing is the music from the menu?

Joseph
29-11-06, 19:45
Yes, the Intro music and the environmental sounds. In fact all tracks that have to be read from the CD are missing.

Joseph
29-11-06, 21:39
I thought it needed sapucdex.exe so i tried to activate VDMSound, but it didn't work at all... :o

So, DosBox has a different sound-policy... but editing DosBox options didn't help :pi:

Lord Icon
29-11-06, 23:19
Since music is played via RedBook CD Audio in DosBox make sure that CD Audio volume is not muted.

Joseph
30-11-06, 04:06
Well, that can be the reason: the Creative Beta for Vista drivers are only basic. Vista's primitive Volume Mixer has only 2 sliders: "Speakers" and "Windows Sounds". Both are up and not muted.
There is no Creative control panel usually called surroundmixer.

In Control Panel > Hardware and Sound > Autoplay is enabled.

Lord Icon
30-11-06, 14:47
I didn't know that, Joseph. It could be the drivers like you say. That's why it would be good if we had also someone else with Vista but different sound card to test it.

I still think we're doing pretty good. We've managed to make TR run quite well on Vista (with glide, fullscreen and sounds but no music) when everything else failed.

The only thing that left is the music part. That's why I believe that we'll get it right.

Joseph
30-11-06, 16:05
Yes i agree Lord Icon. It is a -modest- success already. :tmb: I am quite confident it is the limitation of the Creative Beta drivers. I can only wait for the final Vista drivers package...:(

But besides this there is also a minor: the graphics are aliased. It is not satisfying enough seeing Lara rough-edged, being accustomed to the marvellous DgVoodoo as i am.

Lara Lover
30-11-06, 16:13
Sorry for being late. Haven't read the whole thread but, have you tryed Glidos? :)

Lord Icon
30-11-06, 20:41
But besides this there is also a minor: the graphics are aliased. It is not satisfying enough seeing Lara rough-edged, being accustomed to the marvellous DgVoodoo as i am.

Could you post a snapshot?

Joseph
30-11-06, 20:43
I would have if i could. Screenshot did not work. Only a small size black screen from clipboard.

Lord Icon
30-11-06, 20:48
Sorry for being late. Haven't read the whole thread but, have you tryed Glidos? :)

Glidos is not free. We are looking for a solution that everyone can use (not only people that can pay).

Besides, it was reported that Glidos has some problems on Vista as well.

By the way, Lara Lover, would you be willing to do some testing for us after you install Vista?

Lord Icon
30-11-06, 20:50
I would have if i could. Screenshot did not work. Only a small size black screen from clipboard.

Could you use a third party tool like HoverSnap (http://www.hoverdesk.net/freeware.htm)?

Joseph
30-11-06, 20:58
Certainly! Hope this works...:)

Joseph
30-11-06, 21:11
What is this!!! After installing HoverDesk and rebooting i have a black desktop! :rolleyes: Luckily not a real problem: i changed the desktop properties back to normal.

Hmm, wait... you said hover snap not hover desk. Why do these programs have almost the same name?

Lord Icon
30-11-06, 21:19
What is this!!! After installing HoverDesk and rebooting i have a black desktop! :rolleyes: Luckily not a real problem: i changed the desktop properties back to normal.

HoverDesk is shell replacement. Which by the way is not free. Uninstall that thing.

Hmm, wait... you said hover snap not hover desk.

Yes, I said HoverSnap (for taking snapshots of your desktop or an area of it).

Why do these programs have almost the same name?

Maybe because the company is called Hover Inc. I don't know. You would have to ask them.

Joseph
30-11-06, 21:24
Report: Hover Snap does not install on Vista RC2. :(

XP- Compatibility mode doesn't help, Run as administrator doesn't help.

Lord Icon
30-11-06, 21:47
Try WinSnap 1.1.8 (http://www.vista-files.org/programs/ntwind-software/winsnap.html) or Screenshot Captor 2.25.03 (http://www.vista-files.org/programs/donationcoder/screenshot-captor.html) or Gadwin PrintScreen 3.5.1462 (http://www.vista-files.org/programs/gadwin-systems-inc/gadwin-printscreen.html)

they're all free and all suppose to be for Vista.

Take your pick.

Joseph
30-11-06, 23:03
From TR1 on DosBox, ScreenshotCaptor produces a black screen. :(

Joseph
01-12-06, 08:22
Away with those programs! Of course i'll just use the inbuilt screengrabber Ctrl+F5. :rolleyes:

But i couldn't get the game running anymore after i fiddled with the settings. Trying to restore them now. Needs a reboot everytime... :rolleyes:
Still not working... :( And i have no time anymore, i have to go!

OK. got it working again. :)

[EDIT. Tried the inbuilt screengrabber but that does not work. Probably because Ctrl and F5 are Tomb Raider control buttons. Now i have to go! ]

EDIT2. I meant to say it does not look as good as running on DgVoodoo, and the aliasing at fullscreen is not nice. Other than that, it does not look bad either. It is NOT pixelated, like the original. Well i guess it is looking the same as on your PC on XP, you know DosBox yourself. I see no fun in playing a game in a small window. I want them fullscreen.

Lord Icon
01-12-06, 09:26
I tried DosBox very long time ago. That was before it could even run TR. I left it (since it couldn't run TR at that time) until now.

Hey, anything is worth trying. Don't forget that glide mode in DosBox is still in experimental stages. The important thing is that it works (more less) and anything else doesn't work or it's not gonna be free (when it'll work).

You could try it on your XP machine and compare those two. You can just copy the DosBox and TOMBRAID folders to your XP computer without going through installing TR again.

Maybe it is your drivers. That's why I said we need more machines to test it.

Lord Icon
01-12-06, 10:13
By the way, I tested TR with DosBox again (on XP). I had no problems at all. I had good colors, sounds, ambient sounds and music, 30fps and fullscreen all the way.

I do realise that it's XP but if it can be done on XP there must be a way to do it on Vista.

Lara Lover
02-12-06, 16:19
Glidos is not free. We are looking for a solution that everyone can use (not only people that can pay).

Besides, it was reported that Glidos has some problems on Vista as well.

By the way, Lara Lover, would you be willing to do some testing for us after you install Vista?

Sure! But, at this rate. I don't think I could. As, I've got big 10GB files and how am I going to burn that to disc? Lol. I've also got to get a key and the Beta version (as I lost the ****ing disc!) lol.

AnXa
08-12-06, 21:56
I'd like to note that Daikatana can be installed and played in Windows Vista RTM. The only thing why I registered here to note this. Your list is so well done that it should be moved into some sort of Wiki or something lol.

And no, I am not a troll. I really like Daikatana after it's been properly patched. Otherwise you need to be either really stupid or crazy if you play it without em'. :D

I'll feature screenshot later. I got a mac keyboard in my PC and I cannot take shots with print screen + alt... :/

I got Mr. Captor but it leaves odd transparent thingy into picture. I guess I need to take AERO down somehow and something ...

Joseph
08-12-06, 22:31
Thank you AnXa for posting this (and even registering for it! :tmb: ). I'll retry as soon as possible!

Joseph
09-12-06, 02:56
Tested on GF 7800GT, and you are right, thanks a lot AnXa!:tmb:
Test on ATI (X1900XT) i'll do tomorrow.

AnXa
09-12-06, 10:53
I am middle of testing my favorite games on Vista which doesn't like my CD/DVD drives (which fault and I cannot use them) sometimes. So in another words my testing is in freeze and until proper drivers are around from VIA I can just sit and wait.

Good thing that you tested it too. I don't have ATi graphics card because OpenGL support is so bad in their cards.

Here is shot of Daikatana (http://www.edu.lahti.fi/~aaspinen/kuvat/wista/VistaDaikatana.jpg). And here is another (http://www.edu.lahti.fi/~aaspinen/kuvat/wista/VistaDaikatana2.jpg). :)

Other games I have tested and which seem to be working just fine with latest patches:
Tribes 2,
Tribes 3: Vengeance,
Gabriel Knight 3,
Battle Isle IV: Andosia War,
Blade Runner,
Quake (you need to patch it with at least 1.01 patch and Winquake/GlQuake extender patch)
Quake II,
Quake III,
Quake IV,
Sacrifice,
Vampire: Masqurade: Bloodlines,
Vietcong,
Warcraft 3,
Wetrix,
Diablo 2,

Games which did install but I wasn't able to play them for reason or another:
Starsiege,
Ss:Tribes1,
Sin (Steam version)
Sin (Original)
Metal Gear Solid 2: Subsistance

AnXa
09-12-06, 11:03
One more thing. I'd suggest to try newer nVidia drivers than the ones they have provided to public. Some inside testers have leaked beta drivers for RTM release of Windows Vista.

Check them out from here (http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1527)

I was able to notice huge jump in performance. I don't know if it applies to you too since you have class A nVidia hardware and I have only FX7500... :D

Joseph
09-12-06, 17:06
Hi AnXa. :)
About the nVidia drivers from Guru 3D: as i already mentioned in my fist post i tried that but they refuse to install, the same as the official nVidia drivers refuse and i just gave up the struggle.
Apart from that, my main ineterest was to see if a given game (from the ones i posess of course lol) would run on Vista at all. The OpenGL support difference of ATI vs. nVidia makes that a test should be run on both cards, that's all.

Thanks a lot for your list; i will run through it and add the games you mentioned, credited of course. :tmb:

And if you have any more to add please keep testing and posting, much appreciated! :)

AnXa
10-12-06, 09:02
Great. And thank you. :)

I managed to use this howto (http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=kb%3Ben-us%3B320553&x=7&y=11) to fix my drives. At least they seem to be working after first boot. I need to install punch of software now. :P

Joseph
10-12-06, 14:54
I managed to use this howto to fix my drives. Fine! :tmb:

Games which did install but I wasn't able to play them for reason or another:
Sin (Steam version)
Sin (Original)
They BOTH run excellently on my Vista RC2. :)

Joseph
10-12-06, 15:34
Hi guys!

I'm sorry, I can't help you with testing. This week I'm going abroad for 5 months to earn money and I will not have access to the internet.


Hey Zebius! I am reading trough this thread, and suddenly notice you online! :jmp: I hope things are going well for you? From where are you logged in now? :)

Joseph
10-12-06, 15:42
The game i bought yesterday:

Dark Messiah of Might and Magic. Installs and runs excellently. What i found strange, is that i did not need to put in the serial number, it wasn't even asked. I just bought it an hour ago and played some in the first level, then exited; game asks if i want to save? I clicked 'Save' and then the game freezed. I pressed the Esc key, the game display disappeared, leaving a message on Desktop: "Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library - Runtime Error! - Program: Dark Messiah of Might and Magic\mm.exe - This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. Please contact the application's support team for more information." Hmm... maybe it needs a patch, i'll have a search...
Other than this, the game ran excellently!
Actually this is the first game that runs fine on Vista but not on XP even with the patch installed...
[Update December 10, 2006. I learned that this game was released unfinished and litterally overloaded with bugs. I found it hard to select the right patch for my version of the game, from the large list on Ubisoft support. So, what i just did was update it via Steam. Nevertheless, on XP the game still won't launch (on my machine at least)....]
:pi: this is very strange...... :pi:

Anyway, the only way to enjoy this really great game, is playing it on Vista! :tmb: :D

Zebius
10-12-06, 16:11
Hey Zebius! I am reading trough this thread, and suddenly notice you online! :jmp: I hope things are going well for you? From where are you logged in now? :)
Hi Joseph! :)
I'm still here in Poland because my departure has been delayed. I'm leaving on Tuesday and I'm sure I will not have an internet access in place of my work.
But after return I'll be still active here at TR Forums. See ya :wve:

Lord Icon
10-12-06, 16:27
Take care Zebius. See you soon :wve:

AnXa
12-12-06, 11:18
Metal Gear Solid
Joint Operations
Down of War + Expansions
Medal of Honor: Allied Assault + Expansions
Medal of Honor: (Allied Assault): Pasific Assault

..works on Windows Vista build 6000. (I am now running RTM which I have for 30-days triad period.)

Command and Conquer: Renegade - I don't know why it didn't work for you but my unpatched original version works as good as in XP. I think patched version will work too, but not sure since I haven't tried it.

Sin (Steam version) && Sin (Original) - Installs fine and patches fine. When you start the game it will show videos and starts loading it but will occur hangout when game menu should appear. Pressing ctrl+alt+del does nothing. system has to be rebooted twice after hard reset. At first try Vista says Visual Driver cause system to crash and has been replaced by default device drivers and 3d acceleration has been disabled... on second boot it will give problem resolved and 3d acceleration works again.

Metal Gear Solid 2 has some problems. It installs fine and patches ok, but it hangs on startup before Konami text. I'll try to figure work around.

Starsiege - Graphical glitches in OpenGL, only 1/4 in fullscreen mode is actual game window. for somereason 3/4 is not visible for player. In DirectX mode game will crash. Software works somewhat ok but only in windowed mode.

Starsiege: Tribes - installs fine and patches fine but when you start the game you cannot get into full screen and you also cannot click anything on menu even thought mousecursor moves.

EDIT: I try not to step on your toes with this. I just noticed that you already had marked some games as working. I'll make report only if I have problems while testing these already tested games... :P

Anyway I still have a lot of games to try, but most of the windows games are now here. :D

Joseph
12-12-06, 17:39
AnXa, i VERY MUCH appreciate your effort! :tmb: But please, indeed as you say yourself, come with 100% conclusions. If a method is complicated, it is important you describe all steps to get the game working correctly. If a method is simple and straightforward (immediate success), express that in your post.

Also, many games i do not have myself. For instance: Tribes. Now i see you called the game Tribes in one post, but in the above post it is Starsiege: Tribes. Please use the exact same title as on the game's box.

Many thanks! :)

Joseph
12-12-06, 17:46
Command and Conquer: Renegade - I don't know why it didn't work for you but my unpatched original version works as good as in XP. I think patched version will work too, but not sure since I haven't tried it.

You get me a bit confused here, because your message is not 100% conclusive. Could you describe exactly what happens on your PC with success? As i reported, i get failure on both my nVidia and ATI PC! I expected it would run on my nVidia GF 7800GT machine but it didn't! Could be the generic nVidia drivers in Vista i use (due to my problem installing newer drivers?)?

AnXa
12-12-06, 21:53
I try to keep things simple. If additional steps are needed I will write them here for sure. If nothing spesial is needed and it works as intended then I will not write anything exept that it works. :)

Also, many games i do not have myself. For instance: Tribes. Now i see you called the game Tribes in one post, but in the above post it is Starsiege: Tribes. Please use the exact same title as on the game's box. Many thanks! :)

Ok, my mistake. I thought it was so obvious that I didn't wrote the full name...

You get me a bit confused here, because your message is not 100% conclusive. Could you describe exactly what happens on your PC with success? As i reported, i get failure on both my nVidia and ATI PC! I expected it would run on my nVidia GF 7800GT machine but it didn't! Could be the generic nVidia drivers in Vista i use (due to my problem installing newer drivers?)?

Renegade works here as it works on XP. No flaws. I'll post some screenshots. I am downloading update to it as I write this. What I want to know is if it still works after update since Renegade runs actually on top of 3D-modeling engine, not gaming engine. Westwood called it internally a W3D.

W3D is not really an Westwood product either. It's made by Finnish software company which was specialized in 3d modeling. I am from Finland and I can even make a bet of it that Renegade runs on highly modified Hybrid Graphics Co. product SurRender 3D. (as a interesting side note: Hybrid Graphics Co. is today owned by nVidia and they as specialists in 3D graphic systems used in cell phones...)

SurRended 3D is 3D engine which has no specialism in some particular task like Unreal Warfare or Doom3-generation of IdEngine which are both intended as FPS Engines for such games. SurRender is generic engine which can be used easily in everyway you want. Westwood used it as a RTS, RPG and FPS engine for such games. (Emperor: Battle for Dune, Earth and Beyond, Command & Conquer: Renegade run on top of W3D. S.A.G.E. is actually redeveloped version of W3D, but it's optimized for RTS/TBS)

I am now in wrong path... Anyway the point is that W3D is sensitive to any big changes like patches, driver changes, system changes... there are plenty of reasons it might not run as intended. I think Microsoft has done enormously good job with Vista delivering "new technology" ( re-invented ) which can run it as intended.

For your question: Yes, it might be the drivers but I don't really know.

EDIT: Updated Renegade 1.0.37 works as intended. No problems.

EDIT: I promised some screenshots.. Here (http://www.edu.lahti.fi/~aaspinen/kuvat/wista/VistaRenegade.jpg) and here (http://www.edu.lahti.fi/~aaspinen/kuvat/wista/VistaRenegade2.jpg)...

Notice that gamma adjustments don't work on windowed mode for some odd reason.

EDIT: I'll try CnC first decade pack... (I'll test rest later. I also have original versions too which I will test as I see them more important than re-released ones.)

Joseph
12-12-06, 22:51
Renegade runs actually on top of 3D-modeling engine, not gaming engine. Westwood called it internally a W3D.

W3D is not really an Westwood product either. It's made by Finnish software company which was specialized in 3d modeling. I am from Finland and I can even make a bet of it that Renegade runs on highly modified Hybrid Graphics Co. product SurRender 3D. (as a interesting side note: Hybrid Graphics Co. is today owned by nVidia and they as specialists in 3D graphic systems used in cell phones...)

Please AnXa: how does installing/running Renegade without having to install any extra software (which is not mentioned in the game's manual or readme), or give a link to the required extra software.

...Has problems:
Command and Conquer: Tiberium Sun (First Degade Edition) - When you try to launch Tiberium Sun it will come up with "One or more DLLs were missing or damaged. Please reinstall." Reinstalling will not work. I'll try to patch it with the First Decade -patch if it will change anything.Tiberian Sun? First Decade Edition? I'll just wait untill your reports are complete then.
Keep up the good work! Thanks! :tmb:

AnXa
12-12-06, 23:16
Please AnXa: how does installing/running Renegade without having to install any extra software (which is not mentioned in the game's manual or readme), or give a link to the required extra software.

You do not need any extra software. You can just insert the first cd in (or DVD if you have First Decade Edition) of Renegade, it will install fine and it will run fine too. You can patch it with latest patch and it will run too. :)

Of course you can try having latest nvidia drivers. I'v never ever heard of that somebody can install Windows on partition K: for example. If you install Windows Vista/XP/2000/2003 on /devices/harddisk0/partition4 which is also known as G: and is usually reserved for /devices/diskdrive1/type0/partition0 which is a DVD-drive. Vista is smart enought that HAL will override this and mark parition 4 as C: instead of G:

So in another words, when you boot vista your partition which might be in XP a K: is in Vista C:. XP partition will be marked as D: and rest of the follow in order. Either driver package is damaged, you tried to apply wrong package or RC2 has serious bug which occured on your computer. Also note that for example RC2 nvidia driver package might not regonize RTM...

http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1527 - RTM Driver
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1503 - RC2 Driver

Tiberian Sun? First Decade Edition? I'll just wait untill your reports are complete then.
Keep up the good work! Thanks! :tmb:

Yeah, I have problem, see if I where install whole First Decade DVD which contains all but one Command and Conquer game I would need around 12GBs of free HDD space. Well, I only have 5GBs on my games partition. :D

I have bad habit writing stuff as I go. You should see my notes from study books... hehe, lmao.. :D

Thanks...

EDIT: Sorry about my typing mistakes...
EDIT: BTW, I know you think I am a freak having a every single command and conquer game on storage.. exept one, lol... I'd probably kill somebody to get my hands on Command and Conquer: Sole Survivour Online.

I'll make complete list of this evening later.

Joseph
12-12-06, 23:38
I'v never ever heard of that somebody can install Windows on partition K: for example.
(...)
Vista is smart enought that HAL will override this and mark parition 4 as C: instead of G:
You can install Windows (XP, Vista) on any partition you have on your hdd.
Vista will only override the Drive letter and mark it as C:\ when you install it from booting via CD. That, of course, is not a desired option when you want to keep your current XP on C:\ and installed VistaRC2 on the second hdd!

But you insist on your success with Renegade. :tmb: I must retry it again then! :)

AnXa
13-12-06, 00:31
You can install Windows (XP, Vista) on any partition you have on your hdd.
Vista will only override the Drive letter and mark it as C:\ when you install it from booting via CD. That, of course, is not a desired option when you want to keep your current XP on C:\ and installed VistaRC2 on the second hdd!

Isn't this the thing I just explained in another words? :p
That's the reason also why it should be able to install those drivers. Drive letters are tied into Windows only. It's DOS legacy thing which should be dropped a long time ago. For example windows sees drivers in /device/harddisk0/partition0 alike, Unix based systems sees them as /dev/hda1 or /dev/sda1 (depending on what kind of harddrive you have.)
Device order doesn't change, but physical letters do change.

What I am telling you is that I think those nVidia drivers you have tried might not support your edition of Vista. Drivers which came with Vista are vaporware as they do not support all DirectX commands or OpenGL. Official RC2 drivers you get from nvidia site are deprecated already.


But you insist on your success with Renegade. :tmb: I must retry it again then! :)

yes, I am insisting on it. I provided some screenshots in my post previously on this thread.

Joseph
13-12-06, 00:37
What I am telling you is that I think those nVidia drivers you have tried might not support your edition of Vista. I am using RC2. NVidia states their Vista drivers are written for RC2. http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_96.85.html

AnXa
13-12-06, 00:41
I am using RC2. NVidia states their Vista drivers are written for RC2. http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_96.85.html

Why to write non-compatible drivers, for fun? :D

Try RTM-drivers. Note that it might render your vista non-usable until you remove the drivers from system. I don't believe that ABIs have changed so dramatically from RC2 to RTM that you weren't able to use RTM drivers on RC2 unless it's locked intentionally. If they say you're not using Vista, then it's the problem of nVidia which has limited their drivers.


This is the score on tonight. :) Now I'll go catch some sleep.

Command and Conquer: Gold/95 (Original Edition) - Setup program needs to be run on "Windows 95" compatibility mode. Needs 2000/XP-compatibility patch (ccgoldxppatch.zip (http://www.peliplaneetta.com/tiedostot/pelipaivitykset/strategia-sotapelit/2400/)) which disables network game. Runs otherwise normally. Doesn't suffer 256 colors only -mode problem like First Decade Edition.

Command and Conquer: Gold/95 (First Decade Edition) - No issues. (Note: Your desktop will change into 256 colors only -mode for a short while.)

Command and Conquer: Renegade (Original Edition) - No issues.

Command and Conquer: Renegade (First Decade Edition) - No issues.

Command and Conquer: Tiberian Sun (Original Edition) - No issues. Patch highly recommended.

Command and Conquer: Tiberian Sun (First Decade Edition) + Expansion - Needs at least First Decade 1.02 (http://www.ea.com/official/cc/firstdecade/us/news.jsp?src=Patch102) patch in order to work.

Command and Conquer: Generals (First Decade Edition) + Expansion - No issues.

Joseph
13-12-06, 00:45
So in another words, when you boot vista your partition which might be in XP a K: is in Vista C:. XP partition will be marked as D: and rest of the follow in order. Either driver package is damaged, you tried to apply wrong package or RC2 has serious bug which occured on your computer. Also note that for example RC2 nvidia driver package might not regonize RTM...
Hmm.. i don't agree here. When you install Vista via the method i recommended (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1294977&postcount=4)(boot into XP, launch the Vista DVD and install, of course Advanced, select your partition) you can install Vista on any partition you have, and Vista will NOT alter drive letters. This is similar to when you have installed your XP on C:\ and install it also again on K:\ and yet again on X:\ (of course, provided you have these partitions); you get a dual- or multi-boot setup.
Vista WILL change drive letters (only from its own perspective), only when you install Vista from booting from DVD.

AnXa
13-12-06, 01:03
Hmm.. i don't agree here. When you install Vista via the method i recommended (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1294977&postcount=4)(boot into XP, launch the Vista DVD and install, of course Advanced, select your partition) you can install Vista on any partition you have, and Vista will NOT alter drive letters. This is similar to when you have installed your XP on C:\ and install it also again on K:\ and yet again on X:\ (of course, provided you have these partitions); you get a dual- or multi-boot setup.
Vista WILL change drive letters (only from its own perspective), only when you install Vista from booting from DVD.

Just forget about it. We are talking about the same thing and absolutely same effects but only from different perspectives. What you say here is also true. But in this case HAL of XP takes control of the mess and passing data into Vista. Which I do not recommend since it usually messes up with things rendering some drives in state where you need to reassign them yourself. Vista will still handle C: as it's installed on it even if you make it intall into K: and inside vista you see it's on K:, in fact it's not.

I am kind of specialist on this area. I have computer which boots off Windows XP, Windows Vista, Gnu/Linux Gentoo, Gnu/Linux Debian and FreeBSD. :)

EDIT: I had also Solaris till last month but I needed more space for Games... :P

Joseph
13-12-06, 02:46
Command and Conquer: Renegade (patched 1037) still refuses to run on my Vista RC2/nVidia machine, specs in first post. XP(SP2) or Win98/ME Compatibility mode do not help, run as administrator does not help.

I also tried again to update nVidia drivers but it keeps failing.

I guess the drivers make the difference. Could you post your system's specifications? :)

AnXa
13-12-06, 09:15
Screenshots of Renegade: Here (http://www.edu.lahti.fi/~aaspinen/kuvat/wista/VistaRenegade.jpg) and here (http://www.edu.lahti.fi/~aaspinen/kuvat/wista/VistaRenegade2.jpg)...

Sure, here is my specs:

AMD Athlon 64 3500+ @ 2354 MHz (90nm)
TwinMOS 1024MB (2x 512 DDR-SDRAM PC3200 Dual Channel @ 200Mhz)
Gainward nVidia GeForce FX 5700 Ultra [NV36.2]
Seagate Barracuda 160Gb Rev.A
Western Digital 250Gb
ESI Juli@ ICE1024 24Bit Professional
Antec 300W
... I left out most of my oddball stuff I've built in.

Running:
Windows XP 64bit
Windows Vista 32bit RTM aka Build 6.0.6000
Gnu/Linux Gentoo 64bit
Gnu/Linux Debian 32bit
FreeBSD 32bit

Notes on Vista:
I have only replaced WDDM drivers and SATA drivers with the nVidia and VIA ones instead of using Microsoft default drivers.

I think that since I am running RTM the thing might be that RC2 has bugs which prevent you from running it.

Joseph
13-12-06, 15:46
I think that since I am running RTM the thing might be that RC2 has bugs which prevent you from running it.You might be right about that, AnXa. However, i wonder why the nVidia RC2 driver package keeps stating that i am not running Vista whenever i try to install it, and then it just quits installing process. nVidia says (http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_96.85.html).
These drivers are only compatible with Windows Vista RC2 build 5744 and higher, and should not be used with other versions of Windows Vista.
That is my version: RC2 build 5744.
I found more people on other fora reporting the same problem, their question remains unanswered, no-one has a clue apparently.

I'll put your successfull games in the list. Again, thanks a lot. :tmb:

Chug a Bug
15-12-06, 11:56
I've been following this thread with interest, so much so that I decided to install Vista myself see what I could find out myself regarding TR1 and DosBox. :)

I got hold of the Daum DosBox Glide version and installed it, both in XP SP2 and in Vista RC2 build 5744.

I'm experiancing much the same problems as yourself Joseph:

It is working!!! Sound and vision!!! :D

But only in a small window...

And at the end of the intro with Larson i get a warning: "You are running in a Non-Accelerated OpenGL!!! Things can become really slow." I click OK. Then a message: "DosBox has stopped working." :( 'Send report?' I click Cancel... :( Finished... :(

I had exactly the same problem. I downloaded and installed the beta Vista drivers for my 7900 GTX from the nVidia site: problem solved, although I understand from your later posts that they refuse to install for you?

I'm also having problems getting it to run in fullscreen mode too. I changed the line in the dosbox.conf file to:

fullscreen=true

and in the OpenGlid.ini file to:

InitFullScreen=1

and everything runs in fullscreen perfectly - in XP. FMV, game, everything. Great. However if I do the same thing in Vista the FMV plays in fullscreen ok but when it comes to the game like you I just get a black screen: I can still hear sound i.e. when the demo starts playing I can hear gunfire, the wolves yelping, etc, etc, but the screen remains black so the game is playing at least even if I can't see it.

Now if I change dosbox.conf back to windowed mode again but I leave GlidInit.ini in fullscreen mode the FMV etc will play in a window but the game which runs in Glide does at least start in fullscreen, although I'm getting a row of menu buttons at the top of the screen. I can remove this by clicking SDL > Hide Menu in the DosBox window, or by pressing CTRL+ALT+F10 before I start the game. It's the closest that I've got.

The other problem as you say is CD-DA - it's not working. The game sounds i.e. footsteps, gunfire, etc work fine but the ambient sounds which are redbook audio i.e the menu music, the background sounds etc - do not. This problem is not confined to DosBox either - I've tried the PSX version of TR1 in the ePSXe emulator and it works great in Vista and in fullscreen glory too - but guess what - again no CD audio.

I wondered if Vista would play any CD audio so I popped an audio (music) CD in the drive and it played fine in Windows Media Player.

Seems we're not alone in this - theres a guy on the Vogons forum with the same problem: http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=12346&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60 and he's having problems with fullscreen and CD audio too.

Joseph
15-12-06, 17:26
Interesting. I have the feeling i know this guy called "Converter" ... isn't that you Lord Icon? :D :wve:

Lord Icon
15-12-06, 17:58
Yep, that's an old user name of mine which I don't use anymore. I changed it to the one I use here long time ago. I just logged on using Converter by mistake since it's still active and it was in my favorites with all the cookies on an old computer I was using at the time. I told you I was keeping in contact with the guys that made this version of DosBox. :)

By the way, there is a December version on the site you got the DosBox from last time. Care to give it a try?

Chug a Bug
15-12-06, 20:53
By the way, there is a December version on the site you got the DosBox from last time. Care to give it a try?

Hmm... thats the version I'm using. A small update: TR2 installs ok and the cd audio works ok on that, and thats the last of the TR games to use redbook audio. Strange.

The problem with the lack of cd audio isn't hardware based: I installed a virtual CD rom drive (Daemon tools) and mounted a CD image (clone cd .ccd) with the same result in DosBox etc: no cd audio in Vista though it works fine in XP. :pi:

Lord Icon
15-12-06, 21:10
Unfortunately after I came up with this guide I had only the chance to tested on XP. Joseph offered to test it on Vista. But he can't make it work perfectly. And I can't help him much here since I don't have Vista (yet).

We know now TRII works on it, thanks to your input. What I don't get is why TRII works and TRI doesn't. They're both mixed mode CDs.

Joseph
16-12-06, 21:16
But TR1 is a DOS game. TR2 is DirectX game. Could that be the reason?

Joseph
19-12-06, 01:07
ATI released new Catalyst® Beta Display Driver for Windows Vista RTM (32 bit) (http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/vista32/common-vista32.html) :)
Version: 8.31.100.3.2.1 Date: Dec. 13, 2006

The Catalyst Beta Vista RTM driver will work under Windows Vista RC2.


Web Content

The Catalyst® Vista driver for the Windows Vista operating system includes:

Catalyst® software driver
Catalyst® Control CenterResolved Issues

This section provides information on resolved issues in this release of the ATI Catalyst® Vista driver. These include:

Serious Sam: The Second Encounter: Enabling the vsync in the Video Options of the game currently now functions as expected. Further details can be found in topic number 737-23536
Windows Media Player or WinDVD: Attempting to view a DVD on a system containing an ATI MobilityTM Radeon® X1600 and running the Windows Vista operating system no longer results in the DVD video and audio failing to play smoothly. Further details can be found in topic number 737-23533
Fast forwarding or rewinding through recorded content no longer results in only two frames repeating over and over. 737-23535
Right clicking on the Windows Vista desktop (32bit version) no longer results in the Catalyst® Control Center failing to be available in the menu selection. Further details can be found in topic number 737-23538
Attempting to un-install the Catalyst® Control Center under the Windows Vista operating system (64bit version) no longer results in the Catalyst® Control Center taking 30 minutes or more to complete the un-install process. Further details can be found in topic number 737-23539
Entering the color aspect page under the 64 bit version of the Windows Vista operating system, and attempting to change the red gamma, brightness, and contrast settings to its maximum values no longer results in the changes not be retained when restarting the operating system. Further details can be found in topic number 737-23542
Connecting a TV as a secondary display device no longer results in the TV failing to be activated when entering the Catalyst Control Center and selecting Extend Main onto TV. Further details can be found in topic number 737-23544
Catalyst Control Center->Video->All Settings aspect: The Overlay mode selection is no longer available on systems containing ATI Radeon products that do not support this feature. Further details can be found in topic number 737-23545
Temporal AA is now active under the Windows Vista operating system even when setting AA to 2x. Further details can be found in topic number 737-23546
Enabling extended desktop and rotating either one or both of the displays no longer results in the secondary display device becoming disabled when selecting to swap the display devices within the Catalyst Control Center. Further details can be found in topic number 737-23548
Using the Windows Media Player to playback a DVD no longer results in a jittering effect being noticed under the Windows Vista operating system. Further details can be found in topic number 737-23551
Connecting a secondary display device and enabling clone mode no longer results in the secondary display device failing to display an image when maximizing the WinDVD player from a minimized state
Applying or disabling the option "Reduce DVI Frequency on High Resolution Displays" found in the Catalyst Control Center, no longer results in display device displaying a black screen. This issue was known to occur under the Windows Vista operating system (64 bit) when using an ATI Radeon X1900 series of products
Attempting to un-install the graphics driver using the Catalyst Install Manager no longer results in the ATI packages not being detected
Purble Palace: Playing the game for a short time period and then entering a standby state while the game is still running no longer results in the Windows Vista operating system failing to resume from the standby stateKnown Issues

This section provides information on known issues associated with the ATI Catalyst® Vista RTM driver for both the 32bit and 64bit versions of the Microsoft Windows Vista operating system. These include:

NHL 07: The in-game display settings may fail to be applied when playing the game under the Windows Vista operating system when using a supported ATI Radeon product. Further details can be found in topic number 737-23549
Catalyst® Control Center: The Catalyst® Control Center may take a longer than expected amount of time to launch under the 64 bit version of the Windows Vista operating system. Further details can be found in topic number 737-23541
The Force TV option may still be active after deselecting the option and then re-launching the Catalyst Control Center. Further details can be found in topic number 737-23547
Corruption may be noticed during fast motion of DVD playback under the Windows Vista operating system when using MCE/WMP. Further details can be found in topic number 737-23550
Attempting to un-install the graphics driver may result in the Vista operating system failing to respond requiring a reboot before the driver successfully un-installs
Catalyst Control Center->Avivo Video->Deinterlacing: The Pulldown Detection option maybe available on products that do not support the function
Connecting a CRT to a system containing an ATI Mobility product may result in the hot key function to toggle between the display devices not functioning properly
Setting the Vista Power Option to Balanced mode may result in an audio pop being heard when playing an audio file
Catalyst Control Center->Display Manager: Connecting only a CRT display device to a system running Windows Vista may result in TV display modes being available
Installing the graphics driver and rebooting the Vista operating system as required may result in the display resolution of 1280x800 not being available
Catalyst Control Center->Display Manager: Connecting a display device using the DVI connector may result in the display device failing to be recognized in the Catalyst Control Center
Disconnecting the primary display device when the Windows Vista operating system is in a standby state may result in the log-in screen failing to appear when resuming
Installing the graphics driver on a system containing an ATI Radeon Xpress 1100 or 1150 product may result in the native resolution of 1280x1024 failing to be applied
Playing a DVD under the Windows Vista operating system using the Windows Media Player may result in the DVD failing to play when switching between display devices using the hot-key function
Connecting a secondary (CRT) display device to a system containing an ATI Radeon Xpress 200 series product may result in the inability to set the secondary display device as the primary
Enabling closed captioning when using WinDVD8 to play a DVD title may result in the closed captioning failing to be shown
Enabling the 3D Only option in the Catalyst Control Center may result in the checkbox becoming un-checked when clicking the Apply buttonFor further information and general help on software driver installation, game issues, and more, visit ATI Customer Care (https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894).
Installing the Catalyst® Vista Software Driver

Installation information can be found at: Windows Vista drivers (https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&folderID=5712)

Joseph
19-12-06, 01:37
After installing this drivers package, download the latest DirectX9.0c for Vista (Date Published:12/13/2006). HERE (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=2DA43D38-DB71-4C1B-BC6A-9B6652CD92A3&displaylang=en&Hash=Ih5ph3%2bXSvIofXsgmH2F9M7jKFy9lSq4T0ufgbFA6t0 tE4C9%2bUJf1sRmGlqPYyxg%2bZTZBiG0%2fWqEodeBc5xD0Q% 3d%3d).