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View Full Version : Abortion - The Silent Scream


Thorn
29-10-06, 06:09
A pro-life educational video narrated by former abortionist Dr. Bernard Nathanson. He explains what really happens to the baby and also the mother. It's on YouTube for anyone to see it and I don't think it's too graphic. He explains through models and sonogram. I think this is extremely important for people to know since you don't know what actually happens to the baby or the mother.

Melonie Tomb Raider
29-10-06, 06:17
Abortion is such a terrible thing. :( People really need to know what exactly is going on, thank you for sharing Clara.

Lonely Istari
29-10-06, 06:17
I learned a lot about this stuff in a class I took a couple of years ago. It's really quite disturbing to know all that happens. And very very sad. Abortion makes me very sad. :(

Thorn
29-10-06, 06:25
It should be illegal that no doctor show a similar video before performing. The mother should be aware that she can become sterile, infected etc and what actually happens to the baby. My friend was considering abortion because she was worried about not being able to take care of the baby. Yet when I showed her this she refused to do it and is now very pro-life.

Draco
29-10-06, 07:06
Anyone I have ever met that supports abortion seems to be completely ignorant...or is just in denile about what really happens during one.

GodOfLight
29-10-06, 07:07
wait until you get pregnant accidentally. then you'll view things differently i think.

Draco
29-10-06, 07:13
wait until you get pregnant accidentally. then you'll view things differently i think.

Accidently?

My solution to abortion is not only far more humane, but is much better for helping curb overpopulation.

Catlantean
29-10-06, 08:53
I'm against abortion as a means of contraception, as it's mostly used today (in the developed world at least). It's irresponsible and monstrous. If the unborn baby is suffering serious defects that will make life very difficult or impossible for it, or if pregnancy is threatening the mother's life, then maybe. But in any other case, why not just put it up for adoption?

Melonie Tomb Raider
29-10-06, 08:56
why not just put it up for adoption?
Exactly. Adoption is a much better approach than death.

Even if some one "accidentally" gets pregnant, as Stefan stated, does that make it the baby's fault? Accident or not, the woman is carrying a human life within her, there is no excuse for murder.

jarhead
29-10-06, 08:58
What if the woman was raped??

It wasn't her accident, she didn't want the baby, would she want to carry a baby around constantly reminding her of what happened??

VonCroy360
29-10-06, 09:01
What if the woman was raped??
It wasn't her accident, she didn't want the baby, would she want to carry a baby around constantly reminding her of what happened??

Exactly.
I think abortion should be allowed.
If someone has a problem with it, don't do it; if someone hasn't got a problem, why not?

Paperdoll
29-10-06, 09:04
Exactly.
I think abortion should be allowed.
If someone has a problem with it, don't do it; if someone hasn't got a problem, why not?

My thoughts exactly. Personally, I would never be able to do it (never say never though) whatever the circumstances but still there are people that should have the choice to do it. Not for petty reasons though, like "oops I forgot to use a condom" but for more serious ones, like the mother's life being in danger or in the case of rape. It's better to let these women have appropriate medical conditions and information than to be butchered in someone's garage.

jarhead
29-10-06, 09:06
Absolutly Dollie, I think mothers should have the right to decide if they want to keep the baby and should have the right to an abortion in such circumstances. I think the mothers life should come first....then the babies

Melonie Tomb Raider
29-10-06, 09:12
So if a woman was raped do you still think it's ok for the baby to die for it?

Put the baby up for adoption, that is the better alternative. Regardless of the fact that the woman will have to carry around the baby for 9 months as a constant reminder, the baby did not cause that to happen, the baby is innocent. Even if the baby wasn't there, trust me, a rape victim is going to feel the pain and be scarred whether she has to carry around a baby or not, it's inevitable.

Thorn
29-10-06, 09:13
If she doesn't want the baby then she should tough it out for 9 months and give it up for adoption. I'm sickened that people can just let someone be murdered whether they're unborn or not. The baby was obviously in serious pain in the demonstration. It's disgusting and so are those that don't even consider adoption.

Paperdoll
29-10-06, 09:15
So if a woman was raped do you still think it's ok for the baby to die for it?

Put the baby up for adoption, that is the better alternative. Regardless of the fact that the woman will have to carry around the baby for 9 months as a constant reminder, the baby did not cause that to happen, the baby is innocent. Even if the baby wasn't there, trust me, a rape victim is going to feel the pain and be scarred whether she has to carry around a baby or not, it's inevitable.

Every person is a different case. Like I said in my first post, I wouldn't do it, in whatever circumstances. To put it in different words, I don't agree with abortion but I agree that people should have the choice to do it under extreme circumstances. And adoption isn't always the choice that most people make. I lost count of how many times the police found new born babies dead in trash cans.

Melonie Tomb Raider
29-10-06, 09:20
Murder is murder, it can never be right, no matter what the mother had to go through, the baby is innocent. Find a way to prove the baby guilty and I'll listen...

jarhead
29-10-06, 09:23
So if a woman was raped do you still think it's ok for the baby to die for it?

Put the baby up for adoption, that is the better alternative. Regardless of the fact that the woman will have to carry around the baby for 9 months as a constant reminder, the baby did not cause that to happen, the baby is innocent. Even if the baby wasn't there, trust me, a rape victim is going to feel the pain and be scarred whether she has to carry around a baby or not, it's inevitable.

Yes, I think it is alright, If the women is upset, which she would be, would she want the constant reminder that theres a child out there, created by rape situation. Most proberly that woman would eventually want to find that child, as it would have grown up without its real parents, of which it'll only have had its mum.

And after talking to my mum, do you consider the morning after pill adoption?

What about the rape victim taking the morning after pill??


Like you say Melonie, the baby is innocent, and i can understand that would make abortion wrong. Would you want a child to be born with sever disablility, being in pain every day and not being able to cope on its own, not really being able to live, always stuck in a bed. Being immobile and dpendant on drugs and constant help from nurses.

larasfrend
29-10-06, 09:23
I found one of the comments posted quite interesting, I don't know if it is valid though.

"I wrote my whole dissertation on fetal development. This entire movie has been debunked. A 12 week old fetus lacks the necessary brain connections with the spinal cord to experience pain. It reacts to touch like a venus fly trap reacts to prey; pure reflexes, no consciousness. Pain is not possible for a fetus until about 20 weeks gestation age, when the brain and the spinal cord are sufficiently connected. There may be good arguments against abortion, but this video does not present any." (Balvarez01)


This is not MY comment but somebody else's so please don't freak out...

Melonie Tomb Raider
29-10-06, 09:25
If she doesn't want the baby then she should tough it out for 9 months and give it up for adoption.

Exactly.

If a man raped a woman and gave her a million dollars, do you think she would give up that money because it reminds her of what happened? How much more precious is a human life?

Melonie Tomb Raider
29-10-06, 09:27
Yes, I think it is alright, If the women is upset, which she would be, would she want the constant reminder that theres a child out there, created by rape situation. Most proberly that woman would eventually want to find that child, as it would have grown up without its real parents, of which it'll only have had its mum.


I don't understand that philosophy.... "I've been raped, so let me kill this baby because it reminds me of what happened." That is disgusting. The crime is just as bad, if not worse, than the rape itself if you ask me.

jarhead
29-10-06, 09:29
Exactly.

If a man raped a woman and gave her a million dollars, do you think she would give up that money because it reminds her of what happened? How much more precious is a human life?

Persoanlly I think thats irrelevant, everyone values a human life more then any sum of money, and if they value money more, then they should live.


But think of it, the mother toughs it out for 9 months, has the baby and is faced with the option of adoption or keeping the baby. If the mother is strong and decides to keep the baby good for her. But what if the mother is depressed, angry and tormented. Would she be able to fully cope with a child??

Some mothers might not be......

Thorn
29-10-06, 09:30
The baby usually suffers and is torn to pieces in a barbaric fashion. Search for some abortion pictures online and tell me it doesn't make you reconsider. :(

tampi
29-10-06, 09:34
Every time more facilities exist to abort. A tablet ...... and the following one. :(

Yes, it is terrible. Now like “father” after living the pregnancy, I think that it is a murder.

jarhead
29-10-06, 09:36
The baby usually suffers and is torn to pieces in a barbaric fashion. Search for some abortion pictures online and tell me it doesn't make you reconsider. :(

My mums frineds a midwife and most abortions that she has seen are the doctors etc deliver the fetus. No pain can be felt, and the abortion is usually not allowed after 20 weeks or something

Paperdoll
29-10-06, 09:44
My mums frineds a midwife and most abortions that she has seen are the doctors etc deliver the fetus. No pain can be felt, and the abortion is usually not allowed after 20 weeks or something

I believe it's 10 weeks actually.

Murder is murder, it can never be right, no matter what the mother had to go through, the baby is innocent. Find a way to prove the baby guilty and I'll listen...

I'm not trying to change your views, I wouldn't want that either. I'm just exposing mine.

People have the huge misconception that by making something illegal, it'll go away in a flash. Wrong, very wrong. It'll just make it worse. Women that are confronted with the option of dying, being in severe disability by delivering a child or making an abortion are forced to do it illegally in inhumane conditions. If someone finds abortion a horrible crime, I can see how that person can see that fact as sort of a punishment for these women. Like I said, I think that they should be able to do it in proper conditions and with proper information, thus giving them the choice to either do it or not.
Unless the authorities do 24h hunts on abortion, it'll never go away.

tampi
29-10-06, 09:49
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5876/sinttulo2rp1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Gravastars
29-10-06, 09:58
Anyone I have ever met that supports abortion seems to be completely ignorant...or is just in denile about what really happens during one.

I, myself, have studied the issues of abortion. Looked at both sides of the argument, then decided myself about what should come first. I am neither in denial nor am I ignorant about what goes on in this subject.

The video, itself, annoyed me. "Bernard" seems to feel the need to reaffirm his position in medical science, as if we wouldn't trust him otherwise. I believe this serves as a buffer to his sweeping viewpoints about abortion.

From what I can tell, if you are "Pro-Life", it indicates that you believe an unborn child's life is more important than that of its mother. Am I wrong?

Let's say that we have two possible outcomes to a certain situation.-
-In order for the mother to live, her unborn child must be terminated.
OR
-In order for the mother to give birth, she must sacrifice her own life.

Now, I believe the former of these two demonstrates a lesser of two evils- a mother living on childless would make less of an impact than if it were to be a child living without its real mother. In a way, an abortion can very well prevent your child from leading a more miserable life. Taking your life to save that of another is an altruistic thing to do, but it can have a negative impact.

I know this is just one circumstance, but we need to start thinking realistically about the world we live in. Campaigning to save the lives of unborn children is unrealistic. If life began at conception, we would all be celebrating our birthdays 9 months earlier.

The matter of fact is, we only go on not killing other people because we share a bond to members of our own species. An unborn child seems too distant for me to actually care much for it however. It hasn't experienced life to the extent of which other people have, it wouldn't be missed if it were to one day disappear, it is an irrelevant biological anomaly and the only person to really ever share a bond with this unborn child is that of its own mother.

Which leads me to a conclusion which is purely "Pro Choice". If a mother wants to terminate her unborn child, why not? What noticeable difference would it make to the world? A mother is old enough to make decisions of her own – it is the mothers’ child and it is her own responsibility to choose whether or not it lives right up until childbirth – when there are more factors to consider and more people grow to know the child as it is.

Continue...

tampi
29-10-06, 10:00
...If life began at conception ...

What assumes that it happens then? :confused:

Gravastars
29-10-06, 10:04
Exactly.

If a man raped a woman and gave her a million dollars, do you think she would give up that money because it reminds her of what happened? How much more precious is a human life?

Human life is not precious because there are so many people in the world. Think about the words you are using.

What assumes that it happens then?
Rephrase please. I don't understand.
(Nice picture by the way)

Mona Sax
29-10-06, 10:11
I'd say leave it to the mother, she's the only one in the position to decide. Personally I think the mother's right to decide what happens to her own body is more important than a fetus' life.

Thorn
29-10-06, 10:13
Murder should be illegal no matter what. If the mother is at risk then the surgeon should do their job and help prevent her from dieing. End.

Mona Sax
29-10-06, 10:16
It's not murder since a fetus isn't a fully developed human being. I think nobody would defend killing a baby as a viable solution to unwanted pregnancy.

Thorn
29-10-06, 10:18
It's not murder since a fetus isn't a fully developed human being. I think nobody would defend killing a baby as a viable solution to unwanted pregnancy.
I don't believe you have to be born in order to suffer. They still have a brain, spine, and nerve endings.

Gravastars
29-10-06, 10:18
Murder should be illegal no matter what. If the mother is at risk then the surgeon should do their job and help prevent her from dieing. End.

Good to see you've put an awful lot of thought in your argument. Also good to see you consider other people's points of view and don't view yourself above all else.

It's not murder since a fetus isn't a fully developed human being. I think nobody would defend killing a baby as a viable solution to unwanted pregnancy.

Perhaps, perhaps not. The real issue here is whether or not terminating a pregnancy should be really that much of an issue. Even if we were, in fact, "murdering" this baby, who will it really ever effect? The mother. It is the mother's desicion above all else.

Draco
29-10-06, 10:22
It's not murder since a fetus isn't a fully developed human being. I think nobody would defend killing a baby as a viable solution to unwanted pregnancy.

Neither is a 6 year old...what is your point?

As for the edit: I have a solution...don't get pregnant?

Thorn
29-10-06, 10:23
Good to see you've put an awful lot of thought in your argument. Also good to see you consider other people's points of view and don't view yourself above all else. End.
I have considered others opinions and I'm more satisfied with mine. Is that wrong? No.

Mona Sax
29-10-06, 10:27
I don't believe you have to be born in order to suffer. They still have a brain, spine, and nerve endings.
Not born, no. But there's consensus among physicians that a fetus isn't developed enough to think or feel pain before about week 14 or 15 of a pregnancy. Even in the states and countries that support abortions it's only legal during the first few months, not later.

@Draco: A 6 year old has a personality, thoughts and feelings, that's the difference. "Don't get pregnant"? Easier said than done. Explain this to a rape victim or clueless teen.

Gravastars
29-10-06, 10:28
I have considered others opinions and I'm more satisfied with mine. Is that wrong? No.

A good argument shows evidence of this however. Backing up your statements also helps to support them. You see, even in this quote, you answer your own rhetorical question without what appears to be any real thought or consideration.

Perhaps you have put an awful lot of thought into your arguments. But in a debate, it is good to see evidence of this and it helps to get your point across more effectively.

jarhead
29-10-06, 10:29
And most pro life supporters think the fetus feels pain fomr 7 weeks onwards.

What if the parent aborts the baby before 7 weeks is over?? The baby cannot feel pain

viper456
29-10-06, 10:31
wait until you get pregnant accidentally. then you'll view things differently i think.

my friend was such a stuck up little...never mind.. lol

but she was always one to preach, which i really do hate. And she was always against abortion saying everything bad she could possibley think of.

but then , she accidently got pregnant..funny how she didnt even hesitate to get an abortion, and now if its brought up in convo she is like

well theres also certain circumstances where its acceptable ofcourse

funny how her views suddenly changed to protect her own skin isn't it :rolleyes:

I believe its whats known as a hypocrit

Elysia
29-10-06, 10:40
Oh, I love the 'don't get pregnant' argument...

How about 'let's get men to stop forcing themselves on women; stop men from using sex as a weapon of control and domination and stop teenage boys from pressurising their young and often underage girlfriends into sleeping with them'? To educate men that no means no, and that contraception isn't something to be wriggled out of? That it takes two to tango, and a lot of the time women have abortions because they simply can't see another way out of it - they know that the father won't want anything to do with her or the baby, and let's face it - she has the right to lead a life too?

I may not like the idea of abortion, but I'll support any woman's right to do what she likes with her own body. Most abortions do not happen because she is a lazy slut who can't be arsed to sort out contraception - most of it is because she has a lazy arsed boyfriend who doesn't want to wear condoms, is a young girl who's boyfriend has told her it'll be okay, everyone's doing it, if you loved me, you'd do it..., because she has been attacked or is in an abusive relationship or has simply, and quite innocently, made a mistake.

I know people who've had abortions - it's never been an easy decision for any of them. Please don't patronise women - they know what they're doing. They know they're killing something. The last thing they need is a bunch of holier-than-thou's giving them a hard time over what is probably the hardest decision a woman will ever have to make, ever. No one wakes up, think 'oh no! I'm pregnant. Well, off to the abortion clinic...'.

viper456
29-10-06, 10:43
Oh, I love the 'don't get pregnant' argument...

How about 'let's get men to stop forcing themselves on women; stop men from using sex as a weapon of control and domination and stop teenage boys from pressurising their young and often underage girlfriends into sleeping with them'? To educate men that no means no, and that contraception isn't something to be wriggled out of? That it takes two to tango, and a lot of the time women have abortions because they simply can't see another way out of it - they know that the father won't want anything to do with her or the baby, and let's face it - she has the right to lead a life too?

I may not like the idea of abortion, but I'll support any woman's right to do what she likes with her own body. Most abortions do not happen because she is a lazy slut who can't be arsed to sort out contraception - most of it is because she has a lazy arsed boyfriend who doesn't want to wear condoms, is a young girl who's boyfriend has told her it'll be okay, everyone's doing it, if you loved me, you'd do it..., because she has been attacked or is in an abusive relationship or has simply, and quite innocently, made a mistake.

I know people who've had abortions - it's never been an easy decision for any of them. Please don't patronise women - they know what they're doing. They know they're killing something. The last thing they need is a bunch of holier-than-thou's giving them a hard time over what is probably the hardest decision a woman will ever have to make, ever. No one wakes up, think 'oh no! I'm pregnant. Well, off to the abortion clinic...'.

I totally agree, im neither for or against abortion, yes i think theres some things that are quite shocking about it but I do see the point in it being an option.

I just really didnt like that this friend would preach so much about the topic and really lay into us about it and then because she had actually needed it she changed all her views. So we basically got it in the neck for nothing. Thats what annoys the hell out of me

Jake Croft
29-10-06, 10:44
My cousin was pregnant and she had to have an abortion it was either abortion or child die weeks after it was born but it got worse and she had to have it aborted :(

Elysia
29-10-06, 10:47
I totally agree, im neither for or against abortion, yes i think theres some things that are quite shocking about it but I do see the point in it being an option.

I just really didnt like that this friend would preach so much about the topic and really lay into us about it and then because she had actually needed it she changed all her views. So we basically got it in the neck for nothing. Thats what annoys the hell out of me
Oh, absolutely. It's funny how people's attitudes change when they've got to go through it - like the animal rights activists who want to shut down medical testing, and yet are the first to drag on their inhalers during protests.

I get annoyed that the pro-lifers seem to think that it's the easy way out - that all women who even entertain the notion of abortion are amoral sluts who sleep around and somehow deserve all they get. None of it is ever reflected on the men who get them pregnant in the first place... why should they have a life sentence and let the man get off scott free?

In an idealistic world, every child would be wanted. Problem is, we don't live in an idealistic world. I'd rather that women had the choice to have abortions in clean, hygienic conditions than going back to having them down in back alleys with bits of wire and sticks...

scion05
29-10-06, 10:58
wait until you get pregnant accidentally. then you'll view things differently i think.

Couldnt of been put better :tmb:

I dont think abortion should be used as a contraception.
But if you're raped, or have a one night stand, and dont want
to carry a baby, that is accidental, i think adoption is ok :)

Neteru
29-10-06, 11:04
I think we can do without yet another one of your trolling threads Thorn.