View Full Version : Improving the combat system against not-human characters in TR:A
Since Crystal is using an enhanced 'Tomb Raider Legend' game engine for "Tomb Raider Anniversary" I have a suggestion on how they could improve the combat
I think the combat on Legend was pretty good against human characters, but not so much against the tigers, dogs... I also think that was a little boring just running in circles while shooting in the boss fights
In TR Anniversary will be lots of non-human (at least it should) so it's important to improve that
my suggestion for regular animals (wolfs, lions, raptors, crocodiles...) would be adding some attacks and moves against them (like the ones against humans in Legend), also make them act more like a real animal would
Against big enemies, bosses. Would be great using the physics engine and sceneary a bit, instead of just jumping, running and firing (kinda like the huge serpent in legend but less repetitive)
for example, my idea is with the fight against the t-rex, you could shoot at it until he hurt one of his legs so he run slower and make him follow you under a cave to fire the ceiling and the rocks hit him until his down, or make him fall somewhere or get stuck? soemthing like that
what do you think?
Moon-Safari
01-11-06, 03:19
i think most of it is technical. the animals move faster than lara so you can't really get away with jumping around to shooting them effectively.
Camera Obscura
01-11-06, 03:32
I would love for the animals to be able to climb certain rocks. In all Tomb Raiders Lara could easily climb ledges and shoot from safety but what if the lion or wolf could just leap up with her? :cln:
My strategy with the TRex was to shoot from the protectiion of a cave, but what if the Trex could systematically begin to dismantel the cave, in effect digging Lara out of her hole. You would have to develop a totally new strategy, i.e. find a way out of he back of the cave and climb to higher ground.
I am wondering how real animals, particualrly the pack animals such as wolves and raptors would act. Any one know?
Actually, if you weren't far enough into a cave the t-rex could get you! He'd shove his face in the mouth of those openings and get lara! I know, he got me a few time! :eek: I liked the animals movements in the original, core made them move realisticly and gracefully. Their attacks were viscious too! Not like the lathargic things in legend that didn't even give lara chae. :( Sure the images in TR1 of the animals were blocky, but with the better graphics and strong consoles CD can make a better looking animal, but they should study how well core made the animals move. ;)
Good idea, maybe it can be like wolves jumping on her then she like shoves them off or something and she can kick the Atlanteans saying "Die die die." :vlol:
Animals are not like humans, they get close enough to Lara they take a bite out of her, so no we do not have attacks and moves against animals, you just shoot them and try to stay away from them. We are not going to be going up to a raptor and attempting to kick it, or doing bullet time moves on a T-Rex. It would be nice if they updated the AI a bit on the animals, l would like them to be harder to kill than in the original version :D
Some exlusive moves against certain enemies would be cool. Like how on the PS2 version of Legend the Triangle button is used to kick human opponents. Keep the kick for them, but when facing a different kind of enemy such as an Atlantean mutant the Triangle button could be used for something else - like Lara doing a flip underneath the mutant as they jump at her and firing her guns with the bullet time effect. Or with dogs, instead of the headstomp Lara could jump off their backs and peform a forward roll to get out the way.
I'd also like to see animals show more intelligence. Climbing up small ledges, working together in groups, evading Lara's attacks etc.
VonCroy#14
01-11-06, 07:08
Here's my idea:
In the places where there will be a fight, producers could implement the environment to be used by lara. for example there can be a rope tied to something and when fighting for example a Trex, lara could shoot the rope to release it, grab it, and be pulled to another spot on the "playground" while shooting with the other hand the Trex (just like in the opening scene of the movie (TR1), while dodging Simon, the robot). i'm not saying that the rope should be in the game, but find other interesting ways to use the environment so that lara performs lots of acrobatics while fighting, so that the combat becomes really cool. Another example is the wall jump that was at first implemented in legend, but use it to evade enemies and jump behind them. Let's face it: lara can't fight like in legend, because of the numerous animal encounters that should be in TRA.
What do you think?
Legend 4ever
01-11-06, 09:52
I think that could be interesting.
Coool, imagine in the Lost Valley, running past the second big waterfall, some Raptor's chasing you - you jump up into an alcove and turn around with your pistols drawn ready to blast it back to oblivion - when all of a sudden it flings itself through the air and scrambles up into the alcove itself - and the chase resumes. :mis:
I'd also like to be able to run Past an enemy whilst shooting at them. I didn't appreciate being stuck in a small circle whilst hopping like a crippled badger around the target. And hopefully the new upgraded legend engine will allow an On/Off toggle for those spinning targets! :whi:
WhosaidAODwasbad
01-11-06, 14:01
Rolling was probably the most unique feature in Tomb Raider, and like many if you jump I think wolves will pounce right at you. Dual shooting system for pistols, magnums, uzis and what ever would be great. Maybe if you are cornered a run up the wall back flip would be great. Other than that its hard to think of anything without making her Tarzan.
Maybe Natla will have an endless army of identical mercenries ;)
Meaning no need to change combat system :(
Coool, imagine in the Lost Valley, running past the second big waterfall, some Raptor's chasing you - you jump up into an alcove and turn around with your pistols drawn ready to blast it back to oblivion - when all of a sudden it flings itself through the air and scrambles up into the alcove itself - and the chase resumes. :mis:
I'd also like to be able to run Past an enemy whilst shooting at them. I didn't appreciate being stuck in a small circle whilst hopping like a crippled badger around the target. And hopefully the new upgraded legend engine will allow an On/Off toggle for those spinning targets! :whi:
That would be awesome! Animals that don't give up the chase and are smart enough to follow lara up onto ledges and such... Just think, you feel safe getting on higher ground and all of a sudden that sucker climbs up too! :eek:
As far as the targeting, I hated that too riv. I want side jumps, back flips and the roll/flip back while shooting. Came in handy for out-manuevering the opponent. ;)
They need to do some serious fixing in the combat system. Especially the aiming.
I had no problem with TR1's targeting, it aimed at what I want. Legend's targeting got weird when you tried to run around an enemy. Because of the way the guns locked on to a target it twisted lara up trying to work her way around someone. That needs fixing... ;)
I suppose most would describe TR as an action/adventure game with a great emphasis on puzzling, but that's no reason not to have a combat system to match that of say...Prince of Persia.
1 - Allow melee attacks on animals as well as humans.
2 - Using the magnetic grapple to reel in an enemy didn't look quite right. Maybe lasso stylie animations should be used - that's if the grapple makes an appearance in TRA at all.
3 - I think a Metriod Prime targetting system will work best. Targetting should be totally manual until Lara catches sight of a foe in the riticule.
Can't think of any more right now.
:wve:
I have to agree with a sentiment riv mentioned before too, I hate the big spinning circle target. It is totally unnessesary, we can see what lara is pointing her guns at! :rolleyes:
I had no problem with TR1's targeting, it aimed at what I want. Legend's targeting got weird when you tried to run around an enemy. Because of the way the guns locked on to a target it twisted lara up trying to work her way around someone. That needs fixing... ;)
I was actually talking about Legend's aiming needs fixing, not TR1's. TR1 had good combat, TR2-5 had excellent combat, TR7 had weak combat, TR6's was just awful.
Ada the Mental
01-11-06, 17:04
That bloody targeting in Legend!:yik:
An enemy being right behind you and Lara's pistols locked on a target -that's even out of range!
Plus even when there is not a specific target she will aim at...nothingness!
I remenber I first had a problem with Takamoto because I took out the shotgun,(I adjusted the advanced toggle) and she kept aiming in the wrong direction.Try to run around to get close to Takamoto when you are aiming at the windows!:rolleyes:
Anyway,using meely attacks on animals wouldn't be bad.
They should also have better AI.Legend's mecs had awful AI!
That bloody targeting in Legend!:yik:
An enemy being right behind you and Lara's pistols locked on a target -that's even out of range!
Plus even when there is not a specific target she will aim at...nothingness!
I remenber I first had a problem with Takamoto because I took out the shotgun,(I adjusted the advanced toggle) and she kept aiming in the wrong direction.Try to run around to get close to Takamoto when you are aiming at the windows!:rolleyes:
That needs some serious improvement. I had to put the pistols back everytime I wanted to aim at someone behind Lara.
Anyway,using meely attacks on animals wouldn't be bad.
They should also have better AI.Legend's mecs had awful AI!
But there were some smart things they did; for example when Lara throws a grenade at them, they pick it up and throw Lara with it. I wouldn't call that not smart.
Ada the Mental
01-11-06, 17:41
But there were some smart things they did; for example when Lara throws a grenade at them, they pick it up and throw Lara with it. I wouldn't call that not smart.
That was smart,indeed.But shooting at the opposite direction instead of Lara wasn't!
The first time in Ghana,after I got rid off most of the mercs I was in front of the door that led to the room were the gold award is and there was a last one left shooting back beyond the bridge from where I came from.And I was almost next to him!:vlol:
Give him a break. Sometimes the mercs get stressed and miss the target! :p
Ada the Mental
01-11-06, 17:45
Give him a break. Sometimes the mercs get stressed and miss the target! :p
Believe it or not he then killed me!because I dropped the controller and started rolling on the floor laughing!:vlol:
One more thing. Once, I noticed they would accidently shoot and kill each other. Happened in Bolivia, a useful mistake :D
I was actually talking about Legend's aiming needs fixing, not TR1's. TR1 had good combat, TR2-5 had excellent combat, TR7 had weak combat, TR6's was just awful.
Ahhh, my bad! :p
Ada, that was the secret to the mercs strategy, drive you mad with laughter at his stupidity and then blast you while you were rolling on the ground out of control! :mis: Sneaky buggers! :pi:
i didnt really like the way lara aim and shoot in legend,.. i prefer the previous tr,. of course i like even less the AOD one,.. but,.. whose talking about bad aiming,... anyway... i would preffer her to shoot only if the enemy is at sight,.. otherwise i would preffer her to just for him with her head,.. and if you are moving she should not move toward the enemy,... i dont like alway to shoot running around the enemy,.. sometimes i also like to find right spots,... something more like in the previous games if you know what i mean..?
Ada the Mental
01-11-06, 18:17
One more thing. Once, I noticed they would accidently shoot and kill each other. Happened in Bolivia, a useful mistake :D
Never noticed that!:vlol::D
Ada, that was the secret to the mercs strategy, drive you mad with laughter at his stupidity and then blast you while you were rolling on the ground out of control! Sneaky buggers!
:eek::yik::cln: Oh my god!That's the evilest,sneakiest,most cunning and engenious plan!
Could be worse ada, they could have learned the "bore you to death by talking too much" technich perfected by zip and ali... :rolleyes: THAT would be cruel and unusual punishment to suffer that ordeal... oh wait, we did! http://www.storagebin.us/smilies/smilies/cry3.gif
Tomb Raider Jay
01-11-06, 20:53
I think it's about time Lara can target two enemies at once!
The Core trailer shows Lara attacking two wolves at the same time, there was two target rings spinning while Lara was trying to shoot them.
It's been ten years and Lara can still attack just one enemy at a time, it's high time this was fixed! :)
I don't want the Legend Lara, she's a wimp when it comes to fighting!! ;)
I would also hate it if the "bullet time" movements from Legend made there way into the Anniversary game because they suck, could you picture Lara using one of those "Ariel Assault" moves on the T-Rex?
Legend Lara going head to head with the T-Rex, as follows:
"Lara bounce on top of it's head, quick"!!!! - Alistar cries
"Head?! What? Where?!! I'm too busy polishing my perfect nails too...." - Lara
"Nooooo LAAARRRRAAAA"!!! - Zip
"AAAAAAHHHH" - Lara
........
They need to bring back classic Lara, the one who's not afraid to fight animals, tooth and nail for her well deserved victory!!
What I meant with special moves and attacks against animals, I didn't mean the same as in Legend
Lara should do some that would be effective against animals, not jumping on their heads
maybe something like the first TR movie, when she fights SIMON. She is running toward him and it she slides under it and turn around to shoot it.
That would be effective against animals that usualy jump, like the wolves, lions, I think the Atlantis mutans too
Animals are not like humans, they get close enough to Lara they take a bite out of her, so no we do not have attacks and moves against animals, you just shoot them and try to stay away from them. We are not going to be going up to a raptor and attempting to kick it, or doing bullet time moves on a T-Rex. It would be nice if they updated the AI a bit on the animals, l would like them to be harder to kill than in the original version :D
BU-BU-BU-...
Humans are animals
just a highly civilized form
HELLOfromRUSSIA)
27-11-06, 08:31
Since Crystal is using an enhanced 'Tomb Raider Legend' game engine for "Tomb Raider Anniversary" I have a suggestion on how they could improve the combat
I think the combat on Legend was pretty good against human characters, but not so much against the tigers, dogs... I also think that was a little boring just running in circles while shooting in the boss fights
In TR Anniversary will be lots of non-human (at least it should) so it's important to improve that
my suggestion for regular animals (wolfs, lions, raptors, crocodiles...) would be adding some attacks and moves against them (like the ones against humans in Legend), also make them act more like a real animal would
Against big enemies, bosses. Would be great using the physics engine and sceneary a bit, instead of just jumping, running and firing (kinda like the huge serpent in legend but less repetitive)
for example, my idea is with the fight against the t-rex, you could shoot at it until he hurt one of his legs so he run slower and make him follow you under a cave to fire the ceiling and the rocks hit him until his down, or make him fall somewhere or get stuck? soemthing like that
what do you think?
I wanna it too. +1
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.