View Full Version : No mercs in the Anniversary game!!
Tomb Raider Jay
09-11-06, 15:21
I thought I'd make this thread so Crystal and Eidos could see that we don't want half a million mercs spoiling the Anniversary edition of TR! :)
Just put what enemies you want in the TR:Anniversary game!
We want bats, wolves, giant rats, tigers, lions, bares, raptors, a giant T- Rex, crocodiles, apes, ancient mummys, weird streaky "bacon men" on horse back, pouncing and flying atlantean monsters - and anything else but NO MERCS!! :p
yes...no mercs!! only the 3 goombah's in Natlas mines Larson and Pierre
Just put what enemies you want in the TR:Anniversary game!
What if somebody wants mercs? :p
why would anyone want them?
What if somebody wants mercs? :pLol, Yeah what if all those people who never play TR usually, because they don't like it (apart from Lara of course), would prefer a bunch of mercs in every level?
I think they should make the game for them.
And make it a FPS shooter too.
Or have her run up walls...
/sincere and innocent face
Tomb Raider Jay
09-11-06, 15:37
What if somebody wants mercs? :p
Natla'd!! :eek: Surely no-one wants mercs to spoil this re-make, not after the arguments over Legends merc army!! :(
Do you want mercs Natla'd?
Please say No!! :p
I thought I'd make this thread so Crystal and Eidos could see that we don't want half a million mercs spoiling the Anniversary edition of TR! :)
Just put what enemies you want in the TR:Anniversary game!
We want bats, wolves, giant rats, tigers, lions, bares, raptors, a giant T- Rex, crocodiles, apes, ancient mummys, weird streaky "bacon men" on horse back, pouncing and flying atlantean monsters - and anything else but NO MERCS!! :p
I completely agree!
Hopefully when Pierre and Larson encounter Lara in a few levels, they're not accompanied by a hoard of armoured minions.. :rolleyes:
Hopefully when Pierre and Larson encounter Lara in a few levels, they're not accompanied by a hoard of armoured minions.. :rolleyes:
But the shotgun dude is a merc. and the skateboard bubble head is a merc and the cowboy is a merc. And there were mercs all over TR2 and no one complains.
NO MORE MERCS!:hea:
NO MORE MERCS!:hea:
NO MORE MERCS!:hea:
NO MORE MERCS!:hea:
NO MORE MERCS!:hea:
NO MORE MERCS!:hea:
NO MORE MERCS!:hea:
NO MORE MERCS!:hea:
NO MORE MERCS!:hea:
NO MORE MERCS!:hea:
NO MORE MERCS!:hea:
NO MORE MERCS!:hea:
NO MORE MERCS!:hea:
NO MORE MERCS!:hea:
NO MORE MERCS!:hea:
By the way, did I mention...
NO MORE MERCS!:cln:
But the shotgun dude is a merc. and the skateboard bubble head is a merc and the cowboy is a merc. And there were mercs all over TR2 and no one complains.
They weren't generic phoney army men in TR1 and the ones in TR2 were a gang, I liked them way better than the mercs, there were even various different gang guys, not just the same clone. They fought better too, they chased lara all over the mansion... :mis:
Tomb Raider Jay, I agree with your opinion, but why do you say "we"? I don't want mercs in Tomb Raider 1, and I have never seen someone saying they want them, but I'm certain that there are some of them here and they will probably object to you saying "we".
Tomb Raider Jay
09-11-06, 16:01
Tomb Raider Jay, I agree with your opinion, but why do you say "we"? I don't want mercs in Tomb Raider 1, and I have never seen someone saying they want them, but I'm certain that there are some of them here and they will probably object to you saying "we".
Wow didn't realise anyone wanted mercs, sorry :)
No-one else objecting to me using "We"?
Legend 4ever
09-11-06, 16:02
They weren't generic phoney army men in TR1 and the ones in TR2 were a gang, I liked them way better than the mercs, there were even various different gang guys, not just the same clone. They fought better too, they chased lara all over the mansion... :mis:
Yes, that's right! Those were scary!:yik: These were dead after 3 shots!:(
How could it be that the AI of enemies was better in earlyer games than in new ones?:hea:
They weren't generic phoney army men in TR1 and the ones in TR2 were a gang, I liked them way better than the mercs, there were even various different gang guys, not just the same clone. They fought better too, they chased lara all over the mansion... :mis:
I just find it curious that people seem to apply different standards to TRL than they do the classics. The TR2 goons were clones with an AI that was just about non-existent.
@Jay, yeah it can be a bit presumptious to use "we" unless of course you carry a mouse in your pocket.
Laras Backpack
09-11-06, 16:18
NO MORE MERCS!:hea:
So is that a 'no' on mercs from you then thevman? :D
Yep. The mercs sucked.
I just find it curious that people seem to apply different standards to TRL than they do the classics. The TR2 goons were clones with an AI that was just about non-existent.
I do agree with you but I think the reason is that TRs 1 to 6 had 'mercs' but also had a vast array of other creatures, monsters and beings to fight. Appart from mercs, Legend had just a few dogs and jaguars (not including the bosses). This lack of variety makes the the action and combat repetative and bland.
I do agree with you but I think the reason is that TRs 1 to 6 had 'mercs' but also had a vast array of other creatures, monsters and beings to fight. Appart from mercs, Legend had just a few dogs and jaguars (not including the bosses). This lack of variety makes the the action and combat repetative and bland.
I agree. Plus, all the mercs in Legend look and fight exactly the same. At least there were different kinds of mercs in Tomb Raider 2, with different weapons and levels of competence.
GodOfLight
09-11-06, 16:32
the only humans i want to see in the TR1 remake are the cowboy, the skateboard kid, the big fat guy, natla in her human form, pierre, larson, and lara. no other human beings or mercs!!! :mad:
So is that a 'no' on mercs from you then thevman? :D
Yep. The mercs sucked.
I do agree with you but I think the reason is that TRs 1 to 6 had 'mercs' but also had a vast array of other creatures, monsters and beings to fight. Appart from mercs, Legend had just a few dogs and jaguars (not including the bosses). This lack of variety makes the the action and combat repetative and bland.
A span covering 6 games is not a fair comparison to one game. TR2 and TR6 were very heavy on mercenaries with an occasion dog thrown in. The AI was poor and the variety was limited to two or three types. At least in TRL mercs would take cover and throw grenades and even try to throw your own grenade back.
Again I thiunk folks just over react and are looking for things to complain about. (It has been a slow news span)
A span covering 6 games is not a fair comparison to one game. TR2 and TR6 were very heavy on mercenaries with an occasion dog thrown in. The AI was poor and the variety was limited to two or three types. At least in TRL mercs would take cover and throw grenades and even try to throw your own grenade back.
Wow, do they? I need to throw some grenades about every now and again. :D
I still think Legend would have benefitted from a little variety with the mercs - it really is unnesscerary for them all to be wearing the same thing, even if they act exactly the same. At least then it would feel like there's a little more in it. Like, rather than "Lara kills two mercs", it would be "Lara kills a mafia member and a bloke in a dress" (which leads me to my next complaint; the lack of transvestites in the Tomb Raider series. ;)).
Also, why are there never any female mercs?
Laras Backpack
09-11-06, 16:56
A span covering 6 games is not a fair comparison to one game.
Fine. TR:L vs. TR1 only.
Positives for TR:L
Good AI (atleast compared to TR1)
Positives for TR:1
Vast array of non-human enemies (bats, bears, lions, crocs, panthers, mutants- walking, galloping and flying-, wolves, gorillas)
The humans came in a variet of shapes and sizes- the men in Natla's mines had a shot gun, skateboard, magnums, uzis. plus you had to kill them to regain your weapons. I liked that touch.
Legend has AI firmly in its favor, but 'varied' it is not. Whether you compare it to one TR game or six the result is the same.
TR2 and TR6 were very heavy on mercenaries with an occasion dog thrown in
Unfair I think.
TR2: dogs, statues, dragons, tigers, spiders, bigger spiders, sharks, electric eels, Chinese fish, snow leopards, yetis.
TR6: scorpions (of varying sizes), dogs, scarabs, bats, statues come to life of various sizes, shapes and designs, mummies, skeleton warriors, sharks, crocs, mythical monsters.
I'm sure the lists are longer but my brain is a little frazzeled today. :)
So absolutely right- TRs 2 and 6 had many many mercs but they also had so much MORE than that. This increased variety and reduced monotony.
the lack of transvestites in the Tomb Raider series
You're forgetting Amanda. :mis: :D
No mercs. Insert some giant snakes too. Not the one from Legend England, just plain ordinary big Anacondas, Boas, Pythons, Rattles and Cobras :D
So is that a 'no' on mercs from you then thevman? :D
Yep. The mercs sucked.
I do agree with you but I think the reason is that TRs 1 to 6 had 'mercs' but also had a vast array of other creatures, monsters and beings to fight. Appart from mercs, Legend had just a few dogs and jaguars (not including the bosses). This lack of variety makes the the action and combat repetative and bland.
You could apply the same repetitiveness and blandness to any TR game. I doubt the the way that you attacked any of the varied opponents changed very much from game to game. Pretty much hop back and forth and blaze away or strafe and blaze away or stand there and blaze away. The fact that they put different animations on the opponents did not really change the way that they attacked, whether it was a bear or a panther or a croc or a mutant. It was pretty much charge at Lara or Stand there and shoot at her. The AI was what it was in the old days which wasn't very much.
I still think folks are over reacting and getting picky abouty things to complain about.
Laras Backpack
09-11-06, 17:43
All games have limits, especially older ones. Legend was pretty much a selection of jumps and bullet time movements plus grenades. That became repetative too.
It's not just the AI and range of moves, it's the meer SIGHT of the creatures that is important too. It creates an atmosphere and sense of place that Legend was lacking. it's something to look at, enjoy and be surprised by. Legend had so little surprises compared to the older games and they need to be brought back.
The mercs are an issue that is important to discuss IMHO. The issue covers AI, enemy variety, Lara's moves and the challenges and atmosphere of the game itself. Lets not just concentrate on the mercs themselves, but what they brought and took away from the game as a whole. I don't think it's a picky subject at all.
rejectedpunk9
09-11-06, 17:49
We want bats, wolves, giant rats, tigers, lions, bares, raptors, a giant T- Rex, crocodiles, apes, ancient mummys, weird streaky "bacon men" on horse back, pouncing and flying atlantean monsters - and anything else but NO MERCS!! :p
i definately want them back in! :D them rats! haha they were so funny:) :) :) i want to see more of the enemies from TR1.. but not that random man who kept shooting at you but he wouldnt die.:hea: he was annoying.
xx
You could apply the same repetitiveness and blandness to any TR game. I doubt the the way that you attacked any of the varied opponents changed very much from game to game. Pretty much hop back and forth and blaze away or strafe and blaze away or stand there and blaze away. The fact that they put different animations on the opponents did not really change the way that they attacked, whether it was a bear or a panther or a croc or a mutant. It was pretty much charge at Lara or Stand there and shoot at her. The AI was what it was in the old days which wasn't very much.
I still think folks are over reacting and getting picky abouty things to complain about.
Oh contraire pierre! The goons in TR2 had all kinds of comments, the guys with the machine guns just kept firing and firing where as the shotgun goons would run up on you real fast and blast you from close range. Then there were the really big tough guy goons. And once they started chasing you they followed you all over the place! The mercs in legend stayed put, wouldn't folow you around a corner, let alone a whole building.
Also as lara's backpack pointed out there were tons more enemies in cores game than legend. It wasn't just dogs and mercs. And the animals had different attacks and core did a nice job animating each animal the way they would move, it wasn't one standard attack for all the different animals. Weren't there 2 groups that wanted the dagger in TR2? :confused: Bartoli and someone else??? And what about all those statues that attack lara in the end before getting to the dragon??? Those guys were cool! (in the floating island section)
xcrushterx
09-11-06, 18:27
NO MORE MERCS * continues chanting until told to "SHUT UP" *
Shark_Blade
09-11-06, 20:10
I'm sure some legend lovers wants mercs:rolleyes:
I take nature's beasts anytime than the mercs
I would say - very few or no mercs please - we're probably going to be merc-ed out in TR8 anyway, so let's just enjoy the no mercs while it lasts.
Mind you, I did quite like the monks, who if you made the mistake of shooting as when you were aiming for the real enemy, then ganged up on Lara (can't remember which TR that was...)
I would say - very few or no mercs please - we're probably going to be merc-ed out in TR8 anyway, so let's just enjoy the no mercs while it lasts.
Mind you, I did quite like the monks, who if you made the mistake of shooting as when you were aiming for the real enemy, then ganged up on Lara (can't remember which TR that was...)
That was TR2 :) Hopefully, there won't be many merc in TR8 if we're headed for Avalon.
IMO, the anniversary edition has to have all the enemies we saw in TR1. If there's no human enemy in the original game, then Crystal D. can not put mercs in the anniversary edition. That's what I think...
That was TR2 :) Hopefully, there won't be many merc in TR8 if we're headed for Avalon.
Watch, amanda will follow lara to avalon with her troup of mercs in tow... :cen: And we'll probably get a chance to either have king artur's men help us or attack us like the monks in TR2... :jmp:
Watch, amanda will follow lara to avalon with her troup of mercs in tow... :cen: And we'll probably get a chance to either have king artur's men help us or attack us like the monks in TR2... :jmp:
That would be cool. But how would Amanda get her guys in Avalon. Didn't she say it only works once. I assume one person at a time.
Maybe Lara will be too busy fighting Avalon guardians.
xcrushterx
09-11-06, 20:59
TR8 might not even be a spin off of legend
Lol, Yeah what if all those people who never play TR usually, because they don't like it (apart from Lara of course), would prefer a bunch of mercs in every level?
I think they should make the game for them.
And make it a FPS shooter too.
Or have her run up walls...
/sincere and innocent face
or maybe enjoyed TR2? :rolleyes:
or maybe enjoyed TR2? :rolleyes:Like loads of other people in this thread have said there were not only human combatants in TR2, by a long, long shot.
:rolleyes:
It's obvious I'm making a point about how in Legend there was only merc enemies and that because of that, a wider point is at issue - ie, about how they were making the game for different audience than previous TRs.
Do I really need to spell everything out that clearly?
You see, Tomb Raider II was kinda fun too 'cause they added humans for like how many levels yet it kinda lost that feeling of being in a deserted place...
I think NATLA'S MINEs is the ONLY PLACE they should put Merceneries - that's all I can think of. Kinda makes sense if you think about it..but I'm fine with either way really but I'm in favor mostly for no merceneries FOR ALL LEVELS other then Natla's Mines..THAT'S IT!
Tomb Raider Jay
09-11-06, 22:06
I didn't like the human enemies in TR2 :(
Humans are no-where near as effective as animals for enemies because they are plain, boring and very predictable!
Animals on the other hand will react in different ways, going straight for the kill, gathering in packs to surround Lara or running away because they are scared.
Of course none of that has happened with the animal enemies because the enemies in TR games are always so dumb they just go right for Lara due to the fact they have almost no other AI patterns :p
I'd like proper enemy AI in the next TR game, the wild enemies like wolves should be able to use the field to their own advantage, gain the higher ground and attack Lara from behind, that kind of thing.
Say Lara is exploring a tropical beach and wades into the shallow waters of the sea, a number of different enemies could attack her. I also think that all enemies should be visible on the map and running around just like in a natural enviroment, none of this "wolf just suddenly pops into place" kinda thing, it's dated - they need to bring the enviroments and enemies to life, this will make TR feel much more natural!
Enemies like maybe two giant crabs attack Lara or maybe Lara angers some large paranha fish just above the waves and so they decide to take a bite! :)
The enemies would have to be slightly bigger than real life size of course, like in FFXII how Vaan attacks enemies in the sea, on the land and across mountain tops! ;)
This is the kind of improvements TR needs for next-gen! :)
No mercs! I saw them enought in Legend, there can be mercs, but just in few levels and all diferent, with dogs for example and so on, I want new and many diferent enemys.
No mercs please, I doubt there will be any all the enemies were animals/atlanteans except for Natla, Pierre, Larson, The cowboy, and the other guy. :p
I want to play the games not the movies.
No Mercs.
gerihalliwell
10-11-06, 01:24
Not a lot of mercs, just like big monsters and stuff.
HollabackBoy
10-11-06, 15:50
The mercenaries in Legend sure did get repetitive. If CD decides to use them in TR: Anniversary, I hope they input them similarly to TR2. I don't know about anyone else, but the human enemies in TR2 scared the HELL out of me when they just popped out of nowhere and that creepy music followed. Legend's enemies didn't make me jump at all. Such a disappointment... :(
WhosaidAODwasbad
10-11-06, 17:02
Great Thread, I agree
NO MERCS
Although I would mind,
Some natives, such as in the lost valley there are an ancient people or in Egypt you have to watch out for Terriorists like those sword guys in TR4.
I would like more dynamic enemies in the game, mostly Animal, such as snakes and giant bugs, and more dinos especially the ankle biters and (And Flying ones) Can't spell T. And more mummies, like the one in Tomb of Qualepec who groans.
Also more overall scenery in the level, you know, bundled mummies in Peru, Giant statues in Roman. Same for Egypt. Also in Egypt they should add pretty much all the enemies from TR 4. Such as ancient Guardiens like the ones found in Cleo's Palace, Jackles that look like statues. Scarabs, all that good stuff. Scropeons.
Yes, lets make the enemies at least interesting and variable, keeping in mind, that the best enemies are ancient ones that are related to ancient locations.
xcrushterx
10-11-06, 19:06
how about the mummies from TR 4
the animals from the first and others from the others
Ugh, just thinking about the idea that this could happen is terrifying, I think I'll go play the TR2 Spider Hive to calm my nerves :) .
Speaking of TR2, the Humans could have been maybe cut back a little, however, the fact they were cult people did add a certain creepiness to their single minded intent of slaughtering you. As opposed to random mercenaries, where it's not even personal.
xcrushterx
10-11-06, 19:44
^^ i totally agree
Ugh, just thinking about the idea that this could happen is terrifying, I think I'll go play the TR2 Spider Hive to calm my nerves :) .
Speaking of TR2, the Humans could have been maybe cut back a little, however, the fact they were cult people did add a certain creepiness to their single minded intent of slaughtering you. As opposed to random mercenaries, where it's not even personal.
Urgh - I forgot the TR2 spider hives - I hate spiders in real life, so when I was playing, I was just wishing Lara would whip out a big aerosol can and spray the whole woods with it. Actually, it reminded me of the book The Hobbit and Shelob in the woods. Urgh... And to think I didn't even see one single spider the whole time I was in Australia (never mind the poisonous ones...):yik:
Wow, do they? I need to throw some grenades about every now and again. :D
I still think Legend would have benefitted from a little variety with the mercs - it really is unnesscerary for them all to be wearing the same thing, even if they act exactly the same. At least then it would feel like there's a little more in it. Like, rather than "Lara kills two mercs", it would be "Lara kills a mafia member and a bloke in a dress" (which leads me to my next complaint; the lack of transvestites in the Tomb Raider series. ;)).
Also, why are there never any female mercs?
Maybe we can get a whole army of transvestites running around in dresses in TR8... :mis: They have that one wrestler, vito no less, in WWE that wears dresses... :whi:
Maybe we can get a whole army of transvestites running around in dresses in TR8... :mis: They have that one wrestler, vito no less, in WWE that wears dresses... :whi:
oooo i'm for that!
Like loads of other people in this thread have said there were not only human combatants in TR2, by a long, long shot.
:rolleyes:
It's obvious I'm making a point about how in Legend there was only merc enemies and that because of that, a wider point is at issue - ie, about how they were making the game for different audience than previous TRs.
Do I really need to spell everything out that clearly?
sorry I got lost by the pomposity of it all :)
sorry I got lost by the pomposity of it all :)Name calling...
Excuse me if I have this wrong, but do you ever contribute here? I only ever see you putting in little digs at others.
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