View Full Version : Sky?
da tomb raider!
01-12-06, 17:42
Who thinks we'll see some sky in Anniversary? I hope not, because the original Tomb Raider didn't have any sky anywhere! Looking at some of The Lost Valley screenshots of Anniversary, it does look like it has sky in it. What do you guys think?
:wve:
HELLOfromRUSSIA)
01-12-06, 17:45
http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/tombraideranniversary/screenshots.html
sky
I'm 100% for skies and outdoor areas. The original didn't have skies, like Colosseum and Lost Valley because of limitations. Why bring those back?
Peyn_OTHfan
01-12-06, 17:58
I'm 100% for skies and outdoor areas. The original didn't have skies, like Colosseum and Lost Valley because of limitations. Why bring those back?
That's my kind of a man! ;)
da tomb raider!
01-12-06, 17:59
I'm 100% for skies and outdoor areas. The original didn't have skies, like Colosseum and Lost Valley because of limitations. Why bring those back?
Because that's what the original Tomb Raider was like. This is supposed to be a re-make of Tomb Raider, right?
I'm 100% for skies and outdoor areas. The original didn't have skies, like Colosseum and Lost Valley because of limitations. Why bring those back?
I agree with you !
Because that's what the original Tomb Raider was like. This is supposed to be a re-make of Tomb Raider, right?
Why not bring back triangular breasts while we're at it :rolleyes:
Lara's Boy
01-12-06, 18:01
Because that's what the original Tomb Raider was like. This is supposed to be a re-make of Tomb Raider, right?
They've stated that this isn't a 1:1 remake; more of a re-invention. Besides...there was no sky due to technical limitations, just like RAID said. I would like for TR:A not to replicate the technical limitations.
da tomb raider!
01-12-06, 18:03
It may just be sky, but it does add to the atmosphere of the game. If Tomb Raider had sky in it, it wouldn't feel as great as it does. It looks like she's raiding jungles, not tombs.
Lara's Boy
01-12-06, 18:05
It may just be sky, but it does add to the atmosphere of the game. If Tomb Raider had sky in it, it wouldn't feel as great as it does. It looks like she's raiding jungles, not tombs.
:confused:
I don't see any jungle themed pics from TR:A so far...it looks like the small amount of foilage that would be present in a Valley. If they go overboard with it it's one thing, but we (or at least I) haven't seen any evidence of that so far.
HELLOfromRUSSIA)
01-12-06, 18:07
It may just be sky, but it does add to the atmosphere of the game. If Tomb Raider had sky in it, it wouldn't feel as great as it does. It looks like she's raiding jungles, not tombs.
Cas It is not Tombs, it is jungles(the t-rex moment in TR1)
da tomb raider!
01-12-06, 18:11
Cas It is not Tombs, it is jungles(the t-rex moment in TR1)
The Lost Valley is more of an underground cave then a tomb or jungle.
Without anything above Lara's head, there's nothing stopping a helicopter flying over the place. It wouldn't be such a Lost Valley then, would it? Tomb Raider felt deserted. Being out in the open wouldn't feel right. Shooting a T-Rex with the Sun shining down on it isn't a lot like Tomb Raider to me.
HELLOfromRUSSIA)
01-12-06, 18:20
The Lost Valley is more of an underground cave then a tomb or jungle.
Without anything above Lara's head, there's nothing stopping a helicopter flying over the place. It wouldn't be such a Lost Valley then, would it? Tomb Raider felt deserted. Being out in the open wouldn't feel right. Shooting a T-Rex with the Sun shining down on it isn't a lot like Tomb Raider to me.
No, man :vlol:
Dark on the Sky in TR 1 it is just "Core"'s a console problem in that time. PS1 and Saturn can not viz a quality sky in TR1. In TR2 "Core D" did it
(P.S Sorry for my English)
The Lost Valley is more of an underground cave then a tomb or jungle.
Without anything above Lara's head, there's nothing stopping a helicopter flying over the place. It wouldn't be such a Lost Valley then, would it? Tomb Raider felt deserted. Being out in the open wouldn't feel right. Shooting a T-Rex with the Sun shining down on it isn't a lot like Tomb Raider to me.
Lost valley started in a cave which lead outside.
That doesn't have to do with skies or not skies. Core's Lost Valley was always an outdoor area, so Crystal are just righting the wrong.
HELLOfromRUSSIA)
01-12-06, 18:21
That doesn't have to do with skies or not skies. Core's Lost Valley was always an outdoor area, so Crystal are just righting the wrong.
+1 :)
da tomb raider!
01-12-06, 18:24
Lost valley started in a cave which lead outside.
That doesn't have to do with skies or not skies. Core's Lost Valley was always an outdoor area, so Crystal are just righting the wrong.
Did it? It seemed to lead into another cave, because I didn't see any sky. And I honestly don't see how The Lost Valley was an outdoor area. I know Core Desgin couldn't create sky in those days, but that doesn't stop having no sky being a good thing.
Um, a Cave is suppose to have a ceiling... As I recall from 2 days ago playing Lost Valley, it didn't have one...
Because that's what the original Tomb Raider was like. This is supposed to be a re-make of Tomb Raider, right?
CD said that is is more of a re-invention of TR I. It's 2006... they can make sky.
Lara's Boy
01-12-06, 18:27
Um, a Cave is suppose to have a ceiling... As I recall from 2 days ago playing Lost Valley, it didn't have one...
Exactly. I had always assumed that the "Valley" part of that level indicated it to be outside :wve:
Also, in the other cave levels, you can actually SEE the ceiling, whereas in the Valley you cannot.
da tomb raider!
01-12-06, 18:29
If Core Design couldn't create sky, what was above in The Lost Valley? :confused:
I've got to replay the Lost Valley...
Lara's Boy
01-12-06, 18:31
If Core Design couldn't create sky, what was above in The Lost Valley? :confused:
I've got to replay the Lost Valley...
A black "ceiling", to give the illusion of a sky. I didn't mean that there was literally no sky, I meant that you can tell that there isn't a traditional ceiling in the Valley section. :wve:
(at least, that's how I always viewed it)
If Core Design couldn't create sky, what was above in The Lost Valley? :confused:
I've got to replay the Lost Valley...
There was a sky, just no starts, no moon and no clouds. Technically, just a black background image.
da tomb raider!
01-12-06, 18:34
I'll take your words for it... Either way, I still wouldn't want to see sky in any levels of Anniversary. The Lost Valley, fair enough, but other levels, no thanks.
TombRaiderLover
01-12-06, 18:42
I wouldn't mind a sky, but I'd want it to be very dark (during the night.)
HELLOfromRUSSIA)
01-12-06, 18:48
In Core's Anniversary video Lost valley was light and sky, so in TR1 it was just technical limit.
Legend 4ever
01-12-06, 18:56
Sky please!
In Core's Anniversary video Lost valley was light and sky, so in TR1 it was just technical limit.
A technical limit that created its own unique atmosphere. The valley in the dark has a spooky and seclusive atmosphere. I'd prefer to have the valley at night under the moonlight, or atleast in a partial cave full of dense trees and gnarled twisting roots, the canopy cutting off light to the dim bottom.
I wouldn't mind a sky, but I'd want it to be very dark (during the night.)
A star filled sky for the Egyptian levels would rock!
HELLOfromRUSSIA)
01-12-06, 23:09
A technical limit that created its own unique atmosphere. The valley in the dark has a spooky and seclusive atmosphere. I'd prefer to have the valley at night under the moonlight, or atleast in a partial cave full of dense trees and gnarled twisting roots, the canopy cutting off light to the dim bottom.
I dont think so, that dark was stupid, trees and grass cant live without light, and all textures there was like they are lighted. I like more TR2 "great wall" level sky - it was more realistik
I dont think so, that dark was stupid, trees and grass cant live without light, and all textures there was like they are lighted. I like more TR2 "great wall" level sky - it was more realistik
What happens to jungles in the nighttime then, do they die?
HELLOfromRUSSIA)
01-12-06, 23:51
What happens to jungles in the nighttime then, do they die?
It was not nigh. I was technical limit.
I'll take your words for it... Either way, I still wouldn't want to see sky in any levels of Anniversary. The Lost Valley, fair enough, but other levels, no thanks.
l will just pick this quote out as an example here. We were told why there was no sky in Tomb Raider 1, they simply could not render a blue daytime sky at the time, in the places where you can see stars it is night time, but in the parts where it is black it is meant to be blue sky. l never had a problem with this, l just used my imagination to fill in the blank. They are now redoing the game, as it was meant to be ie: there will be sunlight and sky visible in some of the levels, if you have a problem with this then l suggest you will just have use your imagination to picture it how you want it, because that is the entire point of updating the graphics in the first place, to do what they could not at the time. If you want 1996 graphics stick with the old game
HollabackBoy
02-12-06, 01:26
Why not bring back triangular breasts while we're at it :rolleyes:
Good point. :rolleyes:
aussie you rule ;) I agree with you 100%, and isnīt the debate about "lost valley: outside or inside" a bit washed out? By now we have seen blue skies in both coreīs remake and in crystal dynamics remake, so I guess the valley really is outside, by day time.
cheers
Why would CD re-create TR I, and not put any sky there? Think about it... we've got these really good graphics for the Anniversary edition, and you're running around with no sky! :confused: It would be really silly.
Old TR is the old thought,they(Core) wouldn't talked about the sky..
or in TRAE screenshot,Lara was in high cliff
Holy Water
When Core were making TR I, they couldn't render a sky. But, now, CD can render a sky because it's 2006. The technology is simply better. So now we have a sky.
When Core were making TR I, they couldn't render a sky. But, now, CD can render a sky because it's 2006. The technology is simply better. So now we have a sky.
THAT'S WHAT I MEAN!!!! :tmb:
THAT'S WHAT I MEAN!!!! :tmb:
Cool!:D
Why Legend was more worse than AoD??
Holy Water
Err, off topic much Ivann? ;)
Lol, yeah. That was a bit random...
Ok,let's talking about sky right now..!
Okay... does anything think that we shouldn't include sky for AE?
Okay... does anything think that we shouldn't include sky for AE?
I do I do I do...NOT
I DO!!!!!!!!!!
Holy Water
I do I do I do...NOT
So you don't want sky? How come?
So you don't want sky? How come?
For me, it's simply that not having a sky meant that everything was deep underground... it gave the locations a sense of depth and secrecy which, I have to admit, the outside locations, no matter how beautiful or dangerous they are, don't seem to be able to recreate. The fact that the impression was these places were buried deep within the earth really gave them a kind of forbidden, almost alien ambience - you truly believed that they'd lain undiscovered for milennia, and that you (as Lara) were the first to set foot in them for hundreds... thousands... possibly hundreds of thousands... of years. Have to admit - this atmosphere is unique to TR1, and is one of the reasons it is still (after 10 long years) my favourite TR :).
So you don't want sky? How come? Of course I want sky...:)
Your question: does anything think that we shouldn't include sky for AE?
My ans: I do NOT think we shouldn't have skies :p
i think you could see TRA as TR1, the way it was supposed to be. we're getting a look at how the levels would have probably looked if Core had had this technology back then.
I *think* core was planning to have a sky, either dark or light, in the lost valley, explaining why it's in TRA.
see this picture
http://i.laracroft.tv/images/tr1/tr1-001.jpg
It shows lara raiding some ruins, in peru for the look of the statues... and look: itīs daylight!!! :ton: so core did intended to make it with skies and sunlight :ton:
see this picture
http://i.laracroft.tv/images/tr1/tr1-001.jpg
It shows lara raiding some ruins, in peru for the look of the statues... and look: itīs daylight!!! :ton: so core did intended to make it with skies and sunlight :ton:
So what! I don't really care what they intended to do. By accident of having technological limitations they created a uniquely creepy and isolated atmosphere that hasn't been repeated in any other game since. Daylight just won't have the same effect, they should set the valley in the pitch black of night under the moon and stars.
yeah, lets also make the graphics out of big square blocks, give Lara triangular breasts and have her hair style change between FMVs and in-game. If i wanted to play a Tomb Raider THAT close to the original I'd play the original!
yeah, lets also make the graphics out of big square blocks, give Lara triangular breasts and have her hair style change between FMVs and in-game. If i wanted to play a Tomb Raider THAT close to the original I'd play the original!
Exactly.
What's the point of a remake if they're not gonna right the wrong?
Terminatorvs
02-12-06, 17:27
Someone said the following phrase before (sorry, can't remember, who exactly):
"If CDs wanted to remake AoD, would they include all the bugs from the original game?".
I said something similar. :D
Blockoland
02-12-06, 18:40
Even if software 10 years ago was not capable of producing multi-coloured skies with clouds doesn't mean that anything needs 'fixing' now
The point is that people who want a black sky are interested in the ambience of the level.
One of the reasons T-Rex was so memorable was because instead of wolves, bears or lions as before, a stonking great dinosaur suddenly came looming out of the darkness. We could hear 'him' but not see 'him' until he was up close.
What Core originally hoped for or intended when they made TR1 is completely beside the point now. At the end of the day Crystal Dynamics will be making a new game. They will not be 'fixing' anything. There is nothing to fix.
For all I know Crystal Dynamics may have Lara descending from bright sunlight into a misty valley. We won't know till the game comes out.
As for the discussion about limitations and bugs. There is a difference. Here is my analogy. In ancient times people didn't know how to make transparent colourless glass. They could only make opaque coloured or white glass. Was that a fault/bug/error? No. It was simply a limitation of the time. There is nothing inherently right or wrong about opaque coloured glass or tranparent colourless glass. There is also nothing 'wrong' with having black sky.
If I wanted to produce a piece of glass today celebrating Egyptian cosmetic vessels, would I be fixing anything by using transparent colourless glass? Of course not!
As for the discussion about limitations and bugs. There is a difference. Here is my analogy. In ancient times people didn't know how to make transparent colourless glass. They could only make opaque coloured or white glass. Was that a fault/bug/error? No. It was simply a limitation of the time. There is nothing inherently right or wrong about opaque coloured glass or tranparent colourless glass. There is also nothing 'wrong' with having black sky.
If I wanted to produce a piece of glass today celebrating Egyptian cosmetic vessels, would I be fixing anything by using transparent colourless glass? Of course not!
Gaming is completely different. Just because the limitation was OK back then, doesn't mean it is now.
Night, Day, Afternoon, whatever, I just want a sky, not a valley that when you look up, you'll see a black image back ground.
We talk about "remaking AOD but including all the bugs and glitches" as sarcasm because believe it or not, there are some people who want the block structure, grid system and every flaw of Core back, for a very lame excuse "That's what made Tomb Raider". Putting it that way, no wonder Tomb Raider almost died.
We talk about "remaking AOD but including all the bugs and glitches" as sarcasm because believe it or not, there are some people who want the block structure, grid system and every flaw of Core back, for a very lame excuse "That's what made Tomb Raider". Putting it that way, no wonder Tomb Raider almost died.
that is pure BS and you know it..........NOBODY wants the grid system back.......it's freekin old now
what people want is the old TR atmosphere and suspense......back in the day,the grid engine was cool for what could be done
since then gaming has evolved,game engines and design have evolved........therefore your lame jibes at said past technology are exactly that.....LAME and trollish to say the least :mad:
you can't like something one minute,and then say it sucks the next.........you either like the classics or you don't...simple as
Blockoland
02-12-06, 19:29
My point is, whether Crystal Dynamics make the sky black, grey, blue or whatever colour they choose, it is not a case of fixing anything.
Just because the sky was black in TR1 because of a software limitation doesn't mean it was wrong, broken or a bug.
The client server software that I use at work was not capable of displaying data in 'page/tab' format a few years ago. If there was a lot of data to be displayed users had to scroll down the screen.
The software suppliers were able to make changes and introduce enhancements over time so that now users just click on another page/tab. No need to scroll. They made a change to enhance the product. They didn't fix anything as it wasn't a fault or a bug, it was a limitation.
As for using a different colour for the sky, I wouldn't call that a fix or even an enhancement. It is just a change. It is not a matter of right or wrong, it is personal preference. My personal preference is for a black sky. That is my opinion and there is nothing wrong with that.
that is pure BS and you know it..........NOBODY wants the grid system back.......it's freekin old now
what people want is the old TR atmosphere and suspense......back in the day,the grid engine was cool for what could be done
since then gaming has evolved,game engines and design have evolved........therefore your lame jibes at said past technology are exactly that.....LAME and trollish to say the least :mad:
you can't like something one minute,and then say it sucks the next.........you either like the classics or you don't...simple as
Dude, ask around. Hard to believe, but people actually want those back.
And for the record I don't hate the classics, but a game released nowadays with block structure, grid system, etc... is a death warrant for the series and the publisher.
Dude, ask around. Hard to believe, but people actually want those back.
And for the record I don't hate the classics, but a game released nowadays with block structure, grid system, etc... is a death warrant for the series and the publisher.
:) Raid - honestly- they don't. I know this, because I've had that cheap shot levelled at me on many, many occasions - 'you don't like Legend because you want the grid back...' - hardly any -if any at all - of the older fans have actually said they think going back to the grid is a good idea - it's all propaganda. Everyone knows that the grid system would be a death warrant. All anyone wants is to recapture the same atmosphere and depth that the older games had; unfortunately, no matter how many times you say it isn't the case, there are still some out there who will read that is 'gridplz!' and put words into your mouth ;)
in these arms
02-12-06, 19:39
There should and will be Sky in TRA!
Dude, ask around. Hard to believe, but people actually want those back.
And for the record I don't hate the classics, but a game released nowadays with block structure, grid system, etc... is a death warrant for the series and the publisher.
i can't believe people want the grid back :confused:
but i agree making a game with it now would kill the franchise
*couldn't careless about the publisher...just the game lol* :D
Blockoland
02-12-06, 19:46
It is more a case of what colour the sky will be. My personal preference is for a black sky just because of the atmosphere I think it creates and the memories that it will bring back of TR1.
I doubt that it will be black. It's not the end of the world if it isn't, but that's my preference all the same.
edit:
oops - posted a bit late - responding to the sky comments
:) Raid - honestly- they don't. I know this, because I've had that cheap shot levelled at me on many, many occasions - 'you don't like Legend because you want the grid back...' - hardly any -if any at all - of the older fans have actually said they think going back to the grid is a good idea - it's all propaganda. Everyone knows that the grid system would be a death warrant. All anyone wants is to recapture the same atmosphere and depth that the older games had; unfortunately, no matter how many times you say it isn't the case, there are still some out there who will read that is 'gridplz!' and put words into your mouth ;) Well, I've read posts from this very forum saying that the grid is what made TR, aka difficult and challenging. Cause you have to be precise, one wrong step and you're dead, etc...
If they changed their minds, than that's a whole new story, which I missed :p
Well, I've read posts from this very forum saying that the grid is what made TR, aka difficult and challenging. Cause you have to be precise, one wrong step and you're dead, etc...
If they changed their minds, than that's a whole new story, which I missed :p
I believe what a lot of them were trying to say was that the precision of the old controls is what made the game challenging - not necessarily the grid, The whole having to line up jumps and having set distances that Lara could reach etc - that I actually agree with. However - everyone (including me!) realises that this has to be achieved within the confines of a more modern engine. A lot of it is to do with disliking the autograb, as opposed to wanting the grid system back...
Yeah but, disliking the autograb is a totally different topic. I remember about 3 members here (not gonna say who) saying "I want the grid back, bacause it's what TR is all about"
But could also be what you said about the jumps and distance, but I don't think that the grid is a must for those.
I believe what a lot of them were trying to say was that the precision of the old controls is what made the game challenging - not necessarily the grid, The whole having to line up jumps and having set distances that Lara could reach etc - that I actually agree with. However - everyone (including me!) realises that this has to be achieved within the confines of a more modern engine. A lot of it is to do with disliking the autograb, as opposed to wanting the grid system back...
yep,that sums it up perfectly i think
;) well, that is only 3 out of a lot of people who have serious criticisms of Legend! I know of plenty more people who've had the accusation thrown at them, and unfortunately - it sticks. There are a lot of people out there who immediately equate Legend critics with 'gridplz!'
Or even worse, that they're immediately fanatical about AoD... *shudders*
Blockoland
02-12-06, 20:04
I think it is more to do with judging distance/angles when trying to determine whether jumps are achievable or slopes are accessible.
I doubt that people particularly want to return to lining up jumps or hopping backwards when they make long jumps.
EDIT:I doubt that people particularly want to return to lining up jumps or hopping backwards when they make long jumps.You'd be amazed ;)
Blockoland
02-12-06, 20:08
Well, I suppose there are a lot of amazing things in this world....
Laras Backpack
02-12-06, 20:09
The very few posts I've read on this forum that ask for a grid system actually want some kind of altered grid system for the game- an update of it, not the same thing from TRs 1-5. No one who posted in this thread, as far as I've read has mentioned the grid so it being brought into the discussion is a little out of context (though I know it was being used to make a general point). And though I know this was not the intention, it's a common and unfair generalisation often used by some people to belittle the opinions of 'classic TR lovers'. I think that's why people are a little sensative about it and took it to be a cheap dig at their tastes. :)
But this isn't about technology necessarily, it's about taste. What do we want NOW? Just because some people want a darker level doesn't mean they want the old systems, technology and controls of TR1- they just like darker skies or no skies at all in TR1. I don't mind there being a sky or a cave ceiling.
Here are some pics of peruvian mountain tops I've found. I'd hate CD to do a bright and clear valley- there has to be atleast some mist.
Clouds and mist:
http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/4385/perucloudsandmisted1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Evening:
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6171/perudarkskydc8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Sun rise/ sun set:
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1645/perusunsetib0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Come on! Let's start throwing ideas, rather than accusations, around. :D
Blockoland
02-12-06, 20:12
A lovely pinky/orangey sky like in your picture would be nice too...
You'd be amazed ;)
Raid - perfect illustation of my point about propaganda again. 3 (47, Blocko and myself) people have said 'no,this isn't what it's about...it's not about the grid' - straight away, you hint that we're in the minority. You claim 3 - 3 in gods knows how many - ant the grid back; and no, I wouldn't be amazed that there is an incredibly tiny percentage of people who don't want TR to evolve beyond the grid system. Hell, there are people that think all kinds of things in life were better in the old days and should be brought back! However, the vast majority of Legend critics - no matter how much they love the old system (and they do!) - realise that going back to the grid is not the way forward. HOWEVER - utilising what gave it strong gameplay elements SHOULD be looked into to try to capture the old TR atmopshere.
What I meant was that many people (Legend haters) will claim that they rather line up their jumps cause it's more of a challenge.
But it's just denial if you ask me. Like this thread. Why would you not want a sky with today's technology? It's just insane and a way to bash Crystal Dynamics.
My point is, why bring back the limitations, just because some people hate Crystal or want Core?
What I meant was that many people (Legend haters) will claim that they rather line up their jumps cause it's more of a challenge.
But it's just denial if you ask me. Like this thread. Why would you not want a sky with today's technology? It's just insane and a way to bash Crystal Dynamics.
My point is, why bring back the limitations, just because some people hate Crystal or want Core?
Not having a sky has got nothing to do with bashing Crystal - one of my biggest bugbears with TR2 when I first got it was that there were too many 'outdoors' levels (and one of the reasons why I don't actually rate TR2 that highly...). It's just that I liked the old, 'buried and secret' atmosphere of the first game. I realise that it was down to engine limitation, but it really gave me a sense of secrecy and that I (through Lara0 was the first person to step foot in these places for a long time - no one could air lift me down here - ergo no one could get me out!
I just like the thought of things being 'lost', I suppose... much easier to get that feeling underground! Much more tense and creepy, too. ;)
I'm not saying I'm right about anything - I WOULD rather have to line my jumps up carefully than hurl myself off stuff randomly. It's not denial... I just don't agree with you on this. And just because I'm not agreeing with you, doesn't mean I'm in denial - so there's no reason to be sniffy about it.
Laras Backpack
02-12-06, 20:22
My point is, why bring back the limitations, just because some people hate Crystal or want Core?
It's not about technology necessarily RAID- some people would just like a black ceiling/sky in the game as this would replicate the atmosphere of the original or they think it works better. It doesn't mean they're bashing CD, just stating a taste. Over reacting much? ;)
Blockoland
02-12-06, 20:24
I think it's more the colour and brightness of the sky. It affects the atmosphere (no pun intended) of the level.
You know - like a young child feeling scared because it's dark. Go back to the same place in bright sunlight and the child wonders what they were feeling scared of. Same place, different feeling.
Laras Backpack
02-12-06, 20:25
I think it's more the colour and brightness of the sky. It affects the atmosphere (no pun intended) of the level.
Indeed! That's how I feel about it. :)
I think it's more the colour and brightness of the sky. It affects the atmosphere (no pun intended) of the level.
You know - like a young child feeling scared because it's dark. Go back to the same place in bright sunlight and the child wonders what they were feeling scared of. Same place, different feeling.
Exactly. How can you get that old feeling of tension if it's like a holiday destination?
If we have to have sky, it has to be dark - night, or in a storm or something. Not like we've wandered down to a beach in Corfu...
Not having a sky has got nothing to do with bashing Crystal - one of my biggest bugbears with TR2 when I first got it was that there were too many 'outdoors' levels (and one of the reasons why I don't actually rate TR2 that highly...). It's just that I liked the old, 'buried and secret' atmosphere of the first game. I realise that it was down to engine limitation, but it really gave me a sense of secrecy and that I (through Lara0 was the first person to step foot in these places for a long time - no one could air lift me down here - ergo no one could get me out!
I just like the thought of things being 'lost', I suppose... much easier to get that feeling underground! Much more tense and creepy, too. ;)
I'm not saying I'm right about anything - I WOULD rather have to line my jumps up carefully than hurl myself off stuff randomly. It's not denial... I just don't agree with you on this. And just because I'm not agreeing with you, doesn't mean I'm in denial - so there's no reason to be sniffy about it.
It's not about technology necessarily RAID- some people would just like a black ceiling/sky in the game as this would replicate the atmosphere of the original or they think it works better. It doesn't mean they're bashing CD, just stating a taste. Over reacting much? ;)
OK. Firstly, I didn't mean to offend anyone by denial. I apologize in that case. :)
But what I meant was that since Lost Valley was outdoors, why shouldn't we have a sky?
OK. Firstly, I didn't mean to offend anyone by denial. I apologize in that case. :)
But what I meant was that since Lost Valley was outdoors, why shouldn't we have a sky?
:hug:
Werrrrllll... if it's at night, I suppose that would be okaaaaay... :p
It's just that TR1 totally fits my 'Journey to the Centre of the Earth'-esque fantasies! :D
Blockoland
02-12-06, 20:36
When TRA comes out - where they do use outside environments, I'd like to see different kinds of sky. Not all blazing sunlight everywhere.
Laras Backpack
02-12-06, 20:37
Werrrrllll... if it's at night, I suppose that would be okaaaaay... :p
Hurray! Whose for twinkly stars and meteors streaking the sky? :D
Blockoland
02-12-06, 20:37
A nice lively discussion :)
Hurray! Whose for twinkly stars and meteors streaking the sky? :D
:D Oh, man.. how about a thunderstorm?! Meeting the T Rex, Jurassic Park stylie...
Blockoland
02-12-06, 20:39
My heart's thumping already....
Laras Backpack
02-12-06, 20:41
:D Oh, man.. how about a thunderstorm?! Meeting the T Rex, Jurassic Park stylie...
Oooo! Then a cut scene where the camera zooms onto a puddle and watches as it ripples due to distant vibrations of the incoming T-Rex *boom boom boom* :yik: :D
Blockoland
02-12-06, 20:44
That would be great.
Wonder if they can do pterodactyls? :mis:
:D Oh, man.. how about a thunderstorm?! Meeting the T Rex, Jurassic Park stylie...
Some heavy rain would also add to the fear feeling, with thick mist hiding everything around you. :D
Blockoland
02-12-06, 20:48
Creepy :eek:
Some heavy rain would also add to the fear feeling, with thick mist hiding everything around you. :D
Now THAT would rule!! Thick fog - rain lashing down - only real source of lighting around being the lightening... one minute *flash!* nothing... then another *FLASH* - and there's a raptor in front of you! YEEEEEEE!!! :jmp:
CD - Do it! DOOO IT!!
:D
I still love the idea of really vamping up the AI of the raptors, so they scramble up into alcoves after Lara! :jmp:
Speaking of AI, you know that in Caves,City of Vilcabamba and St Francis's Folly, Lara will fight bats. Wouldn't it cool if the bats stay away from her if she has her PLS on? :D Like RE: Code Veronica X when you have lighter equipped :D
Blockoland
02-12-06, 20:58
I like the little dino in Jurassic Park that looked all cute and cuddly. Until it struck. Maybe they could also have packs of little cute looking killer dinos.
Or flares ;) Muahhaha, the eternal debate continues!
Looking at the screenshots though she doesn't appear to have a PLS strapped to her anywhere.
Or flares ;) Muahhaha
I knew you were gonna say that :D
Looking at the screenshots though she doesn't appear to have a PLS strapped to her anywhere.
*sigh* so sad to not see such a great tool.
Crystal, pls add the PLS.
Oh go on then CD - add the PLS.
But, could you make it work this way -Lara carries more than one PLS, Lara takes the PLS out of her backpack and strikes it - it lights up and starts hissing and emitting smoke - whilst at the same time letting off an eerie green or red bright flickery light. Also make it possible to throw it across the room or into a pit, and pick it up again later if you want.
;)
Oh go on then CD - add the PLS.
But, could you make it work this way -Lara carries more than one PLS, Lara takes the PLS out of her backpack and strikes it - it lights up and starts hissing and emitting smoke - whilst at the same time letting off an eerie green or red bright flickery light. Also make it possible to throw it across the room or into a pit, and pick it up again later if you want.
;)
:jmp: yessssssss
"what?,they're not flares!! honest guvnor"
Laras Backpack
02-12-06, 21:11
Now THAT would rule!! Thick fog - rain lashing down - only real source of lighting around being the lightening... one minute *flash!* nothing... then another *FLASH* - and there's a raptor in front of you! YEEEEEEE!!! :jmp:
CD - Do it! DOOO IT!!
:D
Now I'm going to be disappointed if this doesn't happen. :D
Oh go on then CD - add the PLS.
But, could you make it work this way -Lara carries more than one PLS, Lara takes the PLS out of her backpack and strikes it - it lights up and starts hissing and emitting smoke - whilst at the same time letting off an eerie green or red bright flickery light. Also make it possible to throw it across the room or into a pit, and pick it up again later if you want.
;)
As long as her hands are free for gun drawing, I'm OK :)
Laras Backpack
02-12-06, 21:19
Oh go on then CD - add the PLS.
But, could you make it work this way -Lara carries more than one PLS, Lara takes the PLS out of her backpack and strikes it - it lights up and starts hissing and emitting smoke - whilst at the same time letting off an eerie green or red bright flickery light. Also make it possible to throw it across the room or into a pit, and pick it up again later if you want.
;)
The only thing I didn't like about the PLS was that Legend's environments were rarely ever that dark, so it ended up being under-used. If TRA has plenty of darks spots I'd be happy to see its return and get a good amount of use out of it. :)
If it were flares in TRL, they wouldn't have been used either.
Laras Backpack
02-12-06, 21:27
If it were flares in TRL, they wouldn't have been used either.
I know. This isn't a TRL bash- I don't think the situation would be improved even if there were flares instead- I didn't say that at all. I'm talking about a lighting device in general. It felt a little redundant. Having a dark atmosphere in places would make the device more relevant to the game. :)
Whoa, slow down, my post wasn't an accusation. It was me saying I think PLS is better :)
Laras Backpack
02-12-06, 21:30
Whoa, slow down, my post wasn't an accusation. It was me saying I think PLS is better :)
That's what you meant? Okay.
Hurray! Whose for twinkly stars and meteors streaking the sky? :D
I'm definetly in :D
That's what you meant? Okay.
My wording wasn't accurate, true. I'm a little exhausted right now :o
Whether Flares or PLS were used, in TRL there were very few (if not none) dark areas, so I the only way to judge the devices is the see which is best when used.
Let's the classics with the flares:
You light one, some dude with a gun approaches and starts shooting, you draw guns dropping flare in the process and kill him. After you're done you're most likely to light another flare instead of picking the other one up, especially if it ran out. So that's waste, not to mention dropping a flares while fighting in a dark area, make a jump to avoid enemy attacks, and land in spikes.
My "favorite" feature of flares is when one goes out in mid air, Lara doesn't grab the ledge cause she's too busy throwing the flare away, resulting into her falling to her death.
The PLS was the opposite of all that. That why I want it back. The only drawback it had was that you couldn't throw it to see what's ahead.
I still love the idea of really vamping up the AI of the raptors, so they scramble up into alcoves after Lara! :jmp:
It would rock if they could hunt you nearly everywhere on the map, jumping across gaps and bridges, scuttling up alcoves, biting at you from the waters edge. Even setting up an ambush. I think there should be more raptors this time around, that hunt in packs.
I prefer the flares! :tea:
Now THAT would rule!! Thick fog - rain lashing down - only real source of lighting around being the lightening... one minute *flash!* nothing... then another *FLASH* - and there's a raptor in front of you! YEEEEEEE!!! :jmp:
CD - Do it! DOOO IT!!
:D
It would ROCK!:jmp:
AmericanAssassin
22-01-07, 02:20
I love sky! Although, Anniversary shouldn't have much of it. Just in The Lost Valley!!!
Mr.LadyCroft
22-01-07, 02:23
why wouldn't you not want to see sky in the game? i would like to see some sky in the game. makes it a little realistic the places she goes.
why wouldn't you not want to see sky in the game? i would like to see some sky in the game. makes it a little realistic the places she goes.
I think he's trying to say that it should only be in The Lost Valley because the rest of the levels are underground. ;)
Yunaīs Wish
22-01-07, 02:55
I like the sunny Valley. Itīs a valley after all. The "underground" idea in TR1 was cool, but if that were meant to be done again some holes should be included just to let some light pass. A cave lacks lights, and torches wouldnīt be enough. Not to say that some mystical technological light in the valley would ruin the experience for me. I wouldnīt fight the T-Rex with my flares as I canīt see it, and I love watching hideous beasts like that.
TR1 was not set entirely underground. The Lost Valley, Colosseum, City of Khamoon, Obelisk of Khamoon, Sanctuary of the Scion (those three levels should have a "dark, almost sunrise" sky since Lara is to go out of the canyon and find Natla and company in a really sunny day). I, personally, would prefer the Obelisk and Sanctuary levels to be mostly underground, but with correctly placed lights.
I like it when Lara is outside:jmp:
Why not bring back triangular breasts while we're at it :rolleyes:
Why not? I think she looked hot.:cln:
And yes, I want skies.:p
why wouldn't you not want to see sky in the game? i would like to see some sky in the game. makes it a little realistic the places she goes.
THAT's TRUE!!!! :tmb:
No sky,no realistic :tea:
The Lost Valley is more of an underground cave then a tomb or jungle.
Without anything above Lara's head, there's nothing stopping a helicopter flying over the place. It wouldn't be such a Lost Valley then, would it? Tomb Raider felt deserted. Being out in the open wouldn't feel right. Shooting a T-Rex with the Sun shining down on it isn't a lot like Tomb Raider to me.
Lost VALLEY. A valley is not a cave. Therefore, it has sky. For crying out loud, why do you have such a problem with the sky?! I think you really need to get over this!
I getcha Da Tr - that bugged me when I first thought of it as being outside- "Why hasn't any discovered this place from above? It's not very lost!"
However, if was intended to be outside - how can we guess this? Well, Core's AE was set outside to so I guess Crystal's is correct too :)
So now the question "Why hasn't anyone discovered this place from above?" gets the answer "They just haven't." from me ;)
funny.. if it wasn't an open area.. why is there foliage? There wouldn't be that much foliage in an underground lost valley now would there?
and the other thing.. Valley. like John York said. It wouldnt be a valley if it was in a cave.. that would, just be a cave.
Why it hasnt been discovered? Well simple.. It's deep in the mountains. Many plains get lost when trying to cross over the mountains in peru, bolivia etc. It could be covered with mist like it seemed in the first screen shot. Most of the valleys have mist over them because they are deep and have mountains covering them. You should really watch more discovery channel Da TR ;)
cuz flying over the "andes" is not that easy,.. cuz even if oyu fly over and over awain you see nothing but snow and black stones all over,....
remeber the story about the football players who crashed in los andes and they needed to get out by themselves cuz there was no way people could find the destroyed plane with the signals and everything they give as signs?
and secondly,.. its game,.. there are a lot of things that are not meant to be, that are,.. and some other that are meant to be just in order to make it so much enjoyable,..
That has to be one of the things that annoyed me about tr1...no light above...and as there was hardly any music...it just felt so isolated and i wanted to break free from the dark tombs sometimes!!!
They're including sky for the same reason they're giving Lara a braid.
Because thanks to modern technology, NOW they can.
Actually I'm kinda concerned about sky beeing present in TRA.
Part of the the magic of beeing in some of these places was due to the fact it felt we were ...i dunno...undergournd I guess...
I don't know, I just think that black "sky" is more atmospheric...
There was sky in Ledgend, so theres going to be sky in aniversery.Because its based on the ledgend engin:ton:
JACOBryanBURNS
23-01-07, 02:00
Did it? It seemed to lead into another cave, because I didn't see any sky. And I honestly don't see how The Lost Valley was an outdoor area. I know Core Desgin couldn't create sky in those days, but that doesn't stop having no sky being a good thing.
Hate to rain on your parade but as contestant as you may get, it's got sky. We've all seen it. Sorry friend.
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