View Full Version : "Reform & Bring Back Core Design" Petition!
AmericanAssassin
23-03-07, 21:27
I was told that no "external" petitions were allowed to be posted on the Tomb Raider Forums, so I'm posting one that is internal to the forums. It has been approved by tlr online, so do not close it. Here are the petition rules:
1) Only sign once; comments are allowed (2 time rule REMOVED.)
2) Please include your name (first, if you'd prefer, however full is best) and username on the forums.
3) Include your reasoning (required!) with more than just "CD sucks". Actually, write something that's worth reading!
4) Include why you think Core is more capable, if you think so, of making Tomb Raider than CD.
5) All signatures to the petition must be written in a civil manner; not difficult to read.
6) Please make your name bold (and colored, if you'd like)
Get writing people! Together, we can reform the best company ever and have them take back their throne!
tlr online
23-03-07, 21:30
Core Design - as we know them - have been sold off and disbanded. They are no more, and never will be again. As sad as that may be, why can't folk understand that?
Personally, I think this is a waste of time and bandwidth. However, I appreciate the sentiment and it can remain open.
AmericanAssassin
23-03-07, 21:32
Core Design have been sold off and disbanded. They are no more, and never will be again. As sad as that may be, why can't folk understand that?
Personally, I think this is a waste of time and bandwidth. However, I appreciate the sentiment and it can remain open.
It seemed like you approved it, so I thought I'd post it. I'm sure if Eidos asked most of the guys to come back, they would. I mean, the DVD games that some of them are working on probably aren't as fun to make.
tlr online
23-03-07, 21:34
Core Design are no more. The old team have joined a new studio and from what I hear they're doing a great job. Eidos ported development of the franchise to Crystal Dynamics.
It's over guys, and a new chapter has begun.
Toby Gard who was with Core and left after TR1 is on the crystal team now, is he not? But just what the heck is he doing? Legend was a walk in the park and Anniversary isn't looking any better.
So what exactly is his role in the development?
So what exactly is his role in the development?
... Project director as far as I'm aware.
... Project director as far as I'm aware.
Lol. Yeah. "Project Director". Must've lost his touch...
So what exactly is his role in the development?
PR clown / Fan appeaser, it seems.
Fan appeaser,
Well that's certainly gone balls up in a lot of places! Rather like what happens whenever Ian Livingstone is mentioned.
Lol. Yeah. "Project Director". Must've lost his touch...
Unless he never had it...:rolleyes:
So far we know he designed Lara but nobody knows for sure how much he was involved in TR1's story, puzzles design, levels layout and so on.
So, let analyze what we know and see for sure who might be the reason TR turned out the way it did:
1. Core made 5 games without TG's involvement, which were very well designed with challenging gameplay, amazing atmosphere and story.
2. Crystal D made 2 games with TG.
3. Judging by LOK, Crystal capable of making brilliant games (both story-wise and gameplay-wise).
So who left to blame for the new direction of the games? :whi:
Well that's certainly gone balls up in a lot of places! Rather like what happens whenever Ian Livingstone is mentioned.
Totally. I wonder when Livingstone realizes he'd better not say anything at all.
Eddie Haskell
23-03-07, 22:55
Unless he never had it...:rolleyes:
So far we know he designed Lara but nobody knows for sure how much he was involved in TR1's story, puzzles design, levels layout and so on.
So, let analyze what we know and see for sure who might be the reason TR turned out the way it did:
1. Core made 5 games without TG's involvement, which were very well designed with challenging gameplay, amazing atmosphere and story.
2. Crystal D made 2 games with TG.
3. Judging by LOK, Crystal capable of making brilliant games (both story-wise and gameplay-wise).
So who left to blame for the new direction of the games? :whi:
Elementary my dear Watson, Sherlock Holmes couldn't have done it better! :tmb: :tmb:
CD should seriously hire Core's level designers.They have much sense and feel exploration in them than CD's. Mr. "over-rated" Toby Gard can eat my dust, he ruined Lara with mommy story and he changed Lara's face for the final game with her crummy hair and that horrible ponytail.It just says when you try to change something that is already good,you'll ruin it. And the story is down right snooze-fest.
So down with Toby. If Core can make it through without him,(make him in charge of character designer only,under supervision of course;)) then CD certainly can too.
he ruined Lara with mommy story
According to the game that *I* played, Legend had very little to do with Lara's mother. It was just a backstory for 99% of the game -- it was all about finding King Arthur's Excalibur and learning of the fate of her colleague Amanda. Then, at the very end, Lara turns into an aggressive badass ***** (we like this, right?) upon learning of her mother's fate...
Please explain how the Amelia backstory RUINED Legend/Lara/Tomb Raider? It was Core who came up with the backstory anyway. Crystal just designed a few cutscenes to explain it -- thinking (for some stupid reason) that fans of Lara and Tomb Raider might appreciate Lara's history being further fleshed out.
Well, I did. But no, it seems some old fans want to control a cardboard cut-out, leaping around a repetitive arrangement of blocks.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm glad Crystal is not catering to you. But if TR8 is Lara and "mommy" sitting with each other in a colourful nursery singing happy songs together, then I'll agree with you. Ruined. But come on. These pessimistic exaggerations are beyond all reason of logic.
According to the game that *I* played, Legend had very little to do with Lara's mother. It was just a backstory for 99% of the game -- it was all about finding King Arthur's Excalibur and learning of the fate of her colleague Amanda. Then, at the very end, Lara turns into an aggressive badass ***** (we like this, right?) upon learning of her mother's fate...
Please explain how the Amelia backstory RUINED Legend/Lara/Tomb Raider? It was Core who came up with the backstory anyway. Crystal just designed a few cutscenes to explain it -- thinking (for some stupid reason) that fans of Lara and Tomb Raider might appreciate Lara's history being further fleshed out.
Well, I did. But no, it seems some old fans want to control a cardboard cut-out, leaping around a repetitive arrangement of blocks.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm glad Crystal is not catering to you. But if TR8 is Lara and "mommy" sitting with each other in a colourful nursery singing happy songs together, then I'll agree with you. Ruined. But come on. These pessimistic exaggerations are beyond all reason of logic.
Lara's quest for Excalibur began with her searching for the artifact that "killed" her mother – the Dais. She found the Dais and the sword fragment and went after other pieces just to find out what happened to her mother. She never searched for the sword because it was the Excalibur but because it was connected with her mother.
Also, Core's backstory never had any of her parents die. So I can't see how "Core who came up with the backstory".
According to the game that *I* played, Legend had very little to do with Lara's mother. It was just a backstory for 99% of the game -- it was all about finding King Arthur's Excalibur and learning of the fate of her colleague Amanda. Then, at the very end, Lara turns into an aggressive badass ***** (we like this, right?) upon learning of her mother's fate...
Please explain how the Amelia backstory RUINED Legend/Lara/Tomb Raider? It was Core who came up with the backstory anyway. Crystal just designed a few cutscenes to explain it -- thinking (for some stupid reason) that fans of Lara and Tomb Raider might appreciate Lara's history being further fleshed out.
Well, I did. But no, it seems some old fans want to control a cardboard cut-out, leaping around a repetitive arrangement of blocks.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm glad Crystal is not catering to you. But if TR8 is Lara and "mommy" sitting with each other in a colourful nursery singing happy songs together, then I'll agree with you. Ruined. But come on. These pessimistic exaggerations are beyond all reason of logic.
100% agreed! :tmb: :tmb: :tmb:
the hooliganz
24-03-07, 02:20
Core design was the best video game company in the world, unfortunately, Eidos fired them after Eidos rushed them, they didn't deserved this, CD ruined Lara Croft and Tomb Raider, they didn't deserve Tomb Raider, they made TR to emotional, and many fans dissaprove this, tomb raider isn't tomb raider if core design isn't developing it
Yeah it will never happen :(
AmericanAssassin
24-03-07, 04:10
Lol...17 comments and only 1 signature. Thanx for the help. :rolleyes:
Well, no offense, but it is sort of a lost cause. Core Design doesn't exist in the same sense as it did when they were making Tomb Raider games, and Eidos isn't going to drop Crystal Dynamics when they're producing some cash.
Besides, there are six games from Core, not to mention the gold levels and Level Editor: There are plenty of ways to relive and honor the glory of Core.
Well, no offense, but it is sort of a lost cause. Core Design doesn't exist in the same sense as it did when they were making Tomb Raider games, and Eidos isn't going to drop Crystal Dynamics when they're producing some cash.
Besides, there are six games from Core, not to mention the gold levels and Level Editor: There are plenty of ways to relive and honor the glory of Core.
Agreed. The old Tomb Raider is over. If you've grown disenchanted with the franchise evolving towards what's commercially viable, you're wasting your time dwelling on these forums.
Seriously, why are you all here? You have, of course, the right to complain about the games, suit yourself... but... why...?
dream raider
24-03-07, 06:07
This is a bad idea... Rebellion own Core now and they are making their own games. I'm starting to think my poll of Two Tomb Raider games was a bad idea too, and also a petition right now is being too hasty.
According to the game that *I* played, Legend had very little to do with Lara's mother. It was just a backstory for 99% of the game -- it was all about finding King Arthur's Excalibur and learning of the fate of her colleague Amanda. Then, at the very end, Lara turns into an aggressive badass ***** (we like this, right?) upon learning of her mother's fate...It had everything to do with her mommy from the past. That's the reason she went tomb raiding right?to find her mommy and it perish the reason why she go tomb raiding in the past.It is to play only for sports. And her personality was affected with that event. She lost her mother,lost her friend, so she was consoling and caring for Anaya.Puh, Lara stands alone.She doesn't share sob*sob memories with others. I like how her friendship goes with Jean Yves in tr4. That's idealistic. She doesn't go to Jean Yves, and cry over his shoulder,no way.
Well, I did. But no, it seems some old fans want to control a cardboard cut-out, leaping around a repetitive arrangement of blocks.
At that time,the technology is not capable enough to render other objects and model,so we make do with what we have, and Core did it successfully with flying colours. CDs are not that good. I like very few puzzles but then it is too easy it's not challenging and not worthy the title "Tomb Raider" AT ALL.
Please explain how the Amelia backstory RUINED Legend/Lara/Tomb Raider? It was Core who came up with the backstory anyway. Crystal just designed a few cutscenes to explain it -- thinking (for some stupid reason) that fans of Lara and Tomb Raider might appreciate Lara's history being further fleshed out.
Core's Lara - Had a plane crash, when she was 16 (or 21) and realized that she wants to be lonely adventurer, not a spoiled brat. Her parents disowned her for it
CD's Lara - Had a plane crash when she was 9 and lost her mother. She's a Tomb Raider, because her father was that too. She's searching for her mother
And honestly I don't give a flying monkey to Lara's history. It wasn't Lara, why I started liking the game
tlr online
24-03-07, 14:25
PR clown / Fan appeaser, it seems.
Believe me, he certainly doesn't appease the fans.
Believe me, he certainly doesn't appease the fans.
Not anymore, he doesn't. Remember how we were all ecstatic when he returned for Legend?
Not anymore, he doesn't. Remember how we were all ecstatic when he returned for Legend?
I wasn't around for that - I guess it made everyone uber-chuffed though.
I really hope he finally pulls the rabbit from the hat this time though!
dark_angel_7
25-03-07, 15:09
Core Design - as we know them - have been sold off and disbanded. They are no more, and never will be again. As sad as that may be, why can't folk understand that?
Personally, I think this is a waste of time and bandwidth. However, I appreciate the sentiment and it can remain open.
Exactly! Listen Core Design is over and MOST likely won't ever come back. It time for some people to understand that and get on with their lives and enjoying Tomb Raider for what it is and what it will always remain no matter what developer is making the game - a beautiful action and adventure game.
I can't enjoy what I don't like. If your favorite game like final fantasy feature a "sharp-short-thrill-ride",will you enjoy it? Perish the thought!
dark_angel_7
25-03-07, 17:49
I can't enjoy what I don't like. If your favorite game like final fantasy feature a "sharp-short-thrill-ride",will you enjoy it? Perish the thought!
So you dont like Tomb Raider being an Action/Adventure game? Because thats what it is. It about Tomb Raiding and in every TR game you've got to do that whether it be TR1 or AOD. Maybe a 'true' TR fan would enjoy any TR game as much as they can even it isn't exactly how they wanted it or it isnt who they wanted it to be created by, if you get what I mean :).
AND yes I would enjoy Final Fantasy [even though its not my favourite game] if it was a 'short, BUT SHARP, THRILL'.
So you dont like Tomb Raider being an Action/Adventure game? Because thats what it is. It about Tomb Raiding and in evry TR game you've got to do that wheather it be TR1 or AOD. Maybe a 'true' would enjoy any TR game as much as they can even it isn't exactly how they wanted it or it isnt who they wanted it to be created by, if you get what I mean :).
A "true" fan comes to the forum and suggests idea to make his /her favorite game series better and doesn't sit on one's ass, accepting any kind of crap, as long it's alive and has the "TR" label on it, if you get what I mean ;)
dark_angel_7
25-03-07, 17:57
A "true" fan comes to the forum and suggests idea to make his /her favorite game series better and doesn't sit on one's ass, accepting any kind of crap, as long it's alive and has the "TR" label on it, if you get what I mean ;)
Yes, we can all 'suggest' but there's no point suggesting things that aren't going to come ture even in your wildest dreams. And bringing back Core wouldn't really make the TR series better, it'll probably make it worser compared to Legend/Anniversary and I'm sure you get what I mean ;).
Yes, we can all 'suggest' but there's no point suggesting things that aren't going to come ture even in your wildest dreams. And bringing back Core wouldn't really make the TR series better, it'll probably make it worser compared to Legend/Anniversary and I'm sure you get what I mean ;).
I agree. There's a fine line between suggesting for improvements and suggesting the impossible. Core's not coming back, and unless Crystal Dynamics commercially butchers Tomb Raider, they're not leaving. Offering criticism which Crystal Dynamics can learn from can surely be beneficial, but starting a petition to bring Core back? Crystal Dynamics gets nothing from that, and fans doing so will just be disappointed because it's not happening. It's counterproductive, at best.
dark_angel_7
25-03-07, 19:35
I agree. There's a fine line between suggesting for improvements and suggesting the impossible. Core's not coming back, and unless Crystal Dynamics commercially butchers Tomb Raider, they're not leaving. Offering criticism which Crystal Dynamics can learn from can surely be beneficial, but starting a petition to bring Core back? Crystal Dynamics gets nothing from that, and fans doing so will just be disappointed because it's not happening. It's counterproductive, at best.
Thankyou :tmb: Finally someone understands :).
A "true" fan comes to the forum and suggests idea to make his /her favorite game series better and doesn't sit on one's ass, accepting any kind of crap, as long it's alive and has the "TR" label on it, if you get what I mean ;)
Why Core's Fanboys always doubt about others being "true" TR fans just because they like Crystal?
Why Core's Fanboys always doubt about others being "true" TR fans just because they like Crystal?
An excellent question. I know this may be shocking to some, but it is possible to like both Core's and Crystal Dynamic's Tomb Raider games.
Why Core's Fanboys always doubt about others being "true" TR fans just because they like Crystal?
Don't call me fanboy, because:
- I'm a girl
- I'm not a fan of Core
- I don't hate CD
- I never doubted that CD "fans" are not true TR fans
dark_angel_7
26-03-07, 15:59
Don't call me fanboy, because:
- I'm a girl
- I'm not a fan of Core
- I don't hate CD
- I never doubted that CD "fans" are not true TR fans
Personally I like both. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. But I think starting a thread to bring back Core just because CD made a few small mistakes in Legend is very silly. Just give CD the time they need and many of your doubts will have gone. Also CD are making Anniversary and it looks like they've learnt from their mistakes. Eventually people will realise and will have to accept that TR is now developed by CD and they WILL make a great game and fix Legend's few problems whether it be in Anniversary or TR Legend II or another TR game. I'm betting its Anniversary ;).
Let's hope, you're right, Da7 :)
dark_angel_7
26-03-07, 17:55
Let's hope, you're right, Da7 :)
I sure hope I am :D. Imagine if Anniversary was worser than Legend :yik: [Even though I think Legend is absoloutley fine].
da tomb raider!
26-03-07, 19:51
Sorry, but I won't be signing the petition. I want Core Design to come back and develop the Tomb Raider series again more than pretty much anything but it's never going to happen. I gave up hope on Core Design (And Tomb Raider and Lara Croft) about 11 months ago. :wve:
Are yoy going to buy CDS Tr games You know tr5 and tr6 was bad if cd ****s tra up then I would say get rid of CD but you have to give them another chance even by playing the demo:)
I don't think Core should be brought back to develop TR, it's too late now. I would like them (wherever they are - in Rebellion or in some other design company) to be given the opportunity, the budget, the resources, the time and the freedom, to create something new for Next Gen or beyond Next Gen even. I want them to put their enormous talents to creating something groundbreaking again.
They'd never have that amount of opportunity if they came back to do TR at Eidos.
And probably won't get it elsewhere either (nature of the business, etc), but I am wishful.
From playing TR and Project Eden, I know that Core (or maybe some particular staff members...) have a certain "something" that push my mental, emotional and interest buttons.
I'd like to see a game with that "Core" spark again. Perhaps now they aren't with Eidos I will.
Ward Dragon
27-03-07, 01:14
^ You make a very good point, Blackmoor. I was just playing Soul Reaver 2 yesterday and it had a trailer for Project Eden in it. I've played Project Eden before, but it looked totally fresh and new to me because it's been so long. I think I need to play that game again soon :D
Unless he never had it...:rolleyes:
So far we know he designed Lara but nobody knows for sure how much he was involved in TR1's story, puzzles design, levels layout and so on.
So, let analyze what we know and see for sure who might be the reason TR turned out the way it did:
1. Core made 5 games without TG's involvement, which were very well designed with challenging gameplay, amazing atmosphere and story.
2. Crystal D made 2 games with TG.
3. Judging by LOK, Crystal capable of making brilliant games (both story-wise and gameplay-wise).
So who left to blame for the new direction of the games? :whi:
Very good analysis. I went through the same thought processes and came to the same conclusion...Legacy of Kain was so wonderful that I still don't know how the same developers could have produced Legend.
According to the game that *I* played, Legend had very little to do with Lara's mother. It was just a backstory for 99% of the game -- it was all about finding King Arthur's Excalibur and learning of the fate of her colleague Amanda. Then, at the very end, Lara turns into an aggressive badass ***** (we like this, right?) upon learning of her mother's fate...
Please explain how the Amelia backstory RUINED Legend/Lara/Tomb Raider? It was Core who came up with the backstory anyway. Crystal just designed a few cutscenes to explain it -- thinking (for some stupid reason) that fans of Lara and Tomb Raider might appreciate Lara's history being further fleshed out.
Well, I did. But no, it seems some old fans want to control a cardboard cut-out, leaping around a repetitive arrangement of blocks.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm glad Crystal is not catering to you. But if TR8 is Lara and "mommy" sitting with each other in a colourful nursery singing happy songs together, then I'll agree with you. Ruined. But come on. These pessimistic exaggerations are beyond all reason of logic.
I actually hated that. I wrote this in another thread discussing whether Amanda was really evil. It pretty much sums up why I really do not like the Legend storyline and how it portrayed Lara's personality.
I don't think Amanda was supposed to be evil at all. She just wanted to go to Avalon for some unspecified reason (the game didn't establish that she was trying to destroy the world or anything like that). She was understandably angry at Lara for leaving her, but didn't kill Lara on the numerous occassions she had an opportunity to do so. She seemed to genuinely care for Rutland, so she's not heartless and self-absorbed. Lara kept getting in Amanda's way and ruined all of the work Amanda had been doing to get to Avalon, probably years worth of effort, just because there was a *chance* that Lara might find something about her mother. Lara obviously didn't want to kill Amanda, so she shouldn't have attacked her at all. She should have tried asking Amanda what was going on *before* she started the fight. Or even after she defeated Amanda in Bolivia Redux, she didn't even check for a pulse. She just took Amanda's artifact, turned her back (didn't she learn from Kurtis?;)) and went over to the dais despite knowing what had happened the last time she put the sword into a dais. Lara just rushed in without understanding anything and ended up ruining everything both for Amanda and for herself. Then Lara took it all out on Amanda despite that everything was Lara's fault. Especially during the ending scene, Amanda was trying to save Lara's life by warning her to take the sword out before the dais exploded. Instead of listening, Lara just stood there like a moron, the dais exploded and her mother got sent to Avalon. Then she threw a tantrum and started screaming at Amanda, childishly misusing her guns to get across that she was angry. I really wanted Lara to die right there. I don't particularly like Amanda, but in that situation Amanda was totally right and Lara was totally wrong. That's one of the main reasons I hate Legend (aside from the gameplay issues). It made me truly hate Lara and want to kill her over a character I don't even like. Damn, I want TR1-2 Lara back :(
@AmericanAssassin, I'm sorry but I don't think that Core will ever come back :( I think that there is hope for the TR series if Crystal will just wake up and show some of the ingenuity that they demonstrated in the Legacy of Kain Series. I don't know what's holding them back (whether it's Toby Gard taking too much control, or Eidos forbidding them from taking any chances, or something else entirely) but they need to overcome the resistance and do the fantastic work that I know they are capable of.
disneyprincess20
27-03-07, 11:43
Why does this debate persist?? It's like people begging for the reformation of the team that made Little Big Adventure; it's so far removed from the realm of possibility it might as well be fiction.
Blackmoor made a very good point: the creative minds who made the original Tomb Raiders are the ones we should be interested in,and their creativity cannot be forced to be purely about Tomb Raider. that would get repetitive and ruin the TR experince for everyone.
Tomb Raider has moved on. Everyone was sad to see the demise of Core but unfortunately things like that happen. Yes, Lara will never be the same again, but isn't that a good thing? Lara has changed just a little bit between almost every TR to date, even under Core's direction (the most dramatic being between Chronicles and AOD) but few people complained (I apologise if I am wrong). Can we not accept these new changes because they have a different logo now?
Best of luck with the petition AmericanAssassin, but I cannot sign it. I don't think Tomb Raider would be any better in their hands.
Just my opinion :)
It ain't gonna happen. Get used to it.
AmericanAssassin
27-03-07, 14:59
Ugh... I was mad about the TRA gameplay when I opened this thread. I had hoped, when I was on vacation, that it would die. I know it's unrealistic, so I'm asking: Can a mod close this? It's pointless and I know it.
This is :off: but how was your vacation? :D
AmericanAssassin
27-03-07, 15:07
This is :off: but how was your vacation? :D
It was fun. My family bought a villa on a mountain. :D
It was fun. My family bought a villa on a mountain. :D
Wooooooow! :D I hope you had a nice time! :tmb:
Ugh... I was mad about the TRA gameplay when I opened this thread. I had hoped, when I was on vacation, that it would die. I know it's unrealistic, so I'm asking: Can a mod close this? It's pointless and I know it.
Sure. :wve:
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