View Full Version : Report of an official preview for fans organized by Eidos France today ***SPOILERS***
Hello,
I'm new to this forum and would like to share an official TR:Anniversary preview organised by Eidos France to which I had the chance to be invited to :) . They made a demo of the game and gave some interesting information. I apologize in advance if some of these information is already known, as I don't have the time to read all what is said about the game. :(
Unfortunately, we were not allowed to take pictures, as Eidos does not want bad quality shots to be released, or screens that potentially show a bug.
The game was demonstrated on a PS2 from a passed and unfinished version, but still stable enough and without major glitches or bugs. Despite the high level of details, the animation was seamless, though the frame rate was not reported. The presentation lasted one hour.
I've questionned Eidos about the PC version, and they told me that it's usual to have console versions in advance, knowing that these versions always need to be validated by the console's constructor (Sony in our case). They spoke about a 2-month drift, and the version will catch up before release, of course.
Well, the game release is announced for mid-may, though more likely to be the 25th of may, according to Eidos France. At least for France, but I can imagine it will be the same all over Europe and not much different worldwide (like Legend i think). It will be possible to purchase and download the game from the Internetshort before the official selling and activate it through a code sent by Eidos.
A demonstration version is also announced for end of April. :D
The game is announced to be 30 or 40% longer than TR:L, spread over 4 worlds (Peru, Greece, Egypt and Atlantis), the levels being loaded in streaming (that was already known). We've been demonstrated Peru and Egypt from sequences already shown in the released screenshots. Levels seems large and very detailed, pushing the PS2 to its limits. Levels are said to be non-linear, but the demonstration only showed that a little.
There will be 3 levels of difficulty, not from levels' length, but from ennemies' strength and number of items found (the more difficult, the less big items found, for example a small medipack instead of a big one). Grapple hints will be disabled at the highest difficulty (or at least they will appear at the lowest, well, er, I don't know for the intermediate level).
We've fought various ennemies, wolves, bear, bats (that push Lara), mummies (that can throw energy balls), raptors and **almost** the T-Rex. The T-Rex first appearance is stunning. After having killed severall raptors, Lara prepares herself to fight another bunch, but these are hesitating until we see one flying from a hill and then it appears, growls and starts attacking everything. If grabs raptors that it then throws away to the scenery, somehow destructing it (It reminded me of Jurassic Parc). Everyone flees, including Lara, then we have an interactive cut scene of Lara trying to avoid the slaughter just before facing the T-Rex. Unfortunately that was the end of this level's demo. :hea:
Some ennemies catch Lara's arm, and you have to get free before fighting again. More realistic in a way ther's a slight delay before she recovers.
Ennemies' IA seems really good. The unofficial Egypt video was a bit scaring about this, but what I've seen (the same scene) was much better. As soon as they see you, ennemies rush towards you and almost never stop attacking you. You have to have reflexes. Seems to be a big improvement compared to TR:L.
Sound effects: An atmosphere of solitude is well created and good old sounds are back (secret, appearance of a danger, ...). Lara whispers when she climbs, apparently different according to the effort needed.
We've been showed a turning inventory, but it's not the final one. Good, as it was not looking finished!
There will be no next-gen version (at least from the beginning), cause it's derived from the X-BOX, which will not be in the scope of supported machines. Eidos does not say that it will never be on X-BOX someday. So how knows?
I've also been impressed by emotion rendering of Lara's face. It was already the case on TR:L, but I think they went farther. By seeing mummies or the T-Rex for the first time (as cut scenes), Lara backs and displays surprise/fear on her face. But don't worry, it does not last long, and we all know who will win at the end.:D
New moves we've been shown:
1) One more foot step when she climbs up (for those who already saw).
2) The wall-run can be chaged. You can stop the balance, and turn into a climb up/down.
3) Diving in grouped style (as a bowl, don't know if it's the proper term): funny!:D
4) Going from pole to pole (at its top): When she reaches a pole, she has to find her balance back before jumping to another.
Croft manor: It will be a derived version of TR:L's, because according to Eidos, new players that started with TR:L wouldn't understand. But don't worry: many references to the TR1 mansion will be made (don't know which ones). The manor will be bigger as TR:L's but Eidos woudn't say whether we can go outside or not.
In conclusion, I've been very impressed by the quality of the game (graphics, levels, difficulty, ...); I think it's very encouraging :jmp: . It seems that CD has learnt from TR:L flaws (shortness and linearity). Eidos said that they consulted many fans before deciding what to do. For example they said that the grapple was a plebiscite.
Sorry for been so long, but I think there was something to be said. I wanted to share what was said. :)
Comments welcomed
:yah:
Thank you! :D
EDIT: Reading through... are you sure this is real? Do you have proof?
AmericanAssassin
28-03-07, 18:26
Croft manor: It will be a derived version of TR:L's, because according to Eidos, new players that started with TR:L wouldn't understand. But don't worry: many references to the TR1 mansion will be made (don't know which ones). The manor will be bigger as TR:L's but Eidos woudn't say whether we can go outside or not.
Thanx anyway and welcome to the forums.
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 18:28
Thanks for sharing. :tmb:
Croft manor: It will be a derived version of TR:L's, because according to Eidos, new players that started with TR:L wouldn't understand. But don't worry: many references to the TR1 mansion will be made (don't know which ones). The manor will be bigger as TR:L's but Eidos woudn't say whether we can go outside or not.
I wanted the classic mansion, so did quite a lot of people, why didn't you listen!?
Legend's mansion?
**** you Crystal Dynamics.
EDIT: New fans wouldn't understand? Who cares? This game was created to celebrate 10 years of Lara Croft and to celebrate Tomb Raider I, but they have included the Legend mansion because new fans wouldn't "understand"...? That's a load of BS. :hea: :hea: :hea:
Wow, thanks a lot for these informations. Some things are new. :tmb:
:wve:
da tomb raider!
28-03-07, 18:32
I feel gutted. What did I do to deserve this?
Still, thanks for posting, I guess. It might just save me some money.
Some re-make, Anniversary is. :rolleyes:
Yeah, the CLASSIC MANSION PLEASE CRYSTAL DYNAMICS. WHICH PART OF 'STAY TRUE TO THE ORIGINAL' DIDN'T YOU UNDERSTAND?
:cen:
Bacon Lara
28-03-07, 18:32
Hello,
The T-Rex first appearance is stunning. After having killed severall raptors, Lara prepares herself to fight another bunch, but these are hesitating until we see one flying from a hill and then it appears, growls and starts attacking everything. If grabs raptors that it then throws away to the scenery, somehow destructing it (It reminded me of Jurassic Parc). Everyone flees, including Lara, then we have an interactive cut scene of Lara trying to avoid the slaughter just before facing the T-Rex. Unfortunately that was the end of this level's demo. :hea:
Some ennemies catch Lara's arm, and you have to get free before fighting again. More realistic in a way ther's a slight delay before she recovers.
Ennemies' IA seems really good. Croft manor: It will be a derived version of TR:L's, because according to Eidos, new players that started with TR:L wouldn't understand. But don't worry: many references to the TR1 mansion will be made (don't know which ones). The manor will be bigger as TR:L's but Eidos woudn't say whether we can go outside or not.
Usually I hate interactive cutscenes but this one sounds awesome
I cant belive they are using Legends manor they dont get it who cares if couple of kids dont know why theres a new manor there will be tons of TR fans who will be furius Its so pointless and stuped if you think about it
That's :cen:! They wouldn't understand?! :cen: them! We matter more than the new players! God, I hate CD so :cen: much!
EDIT: I think they're big :cen: liars! They were probably just too lazy to start over with the old mansion! :cen: I hate them!
EDIT 2: Thanx anyway and welcome to the forums.
I totaly agree it is :cen:
Sara Croft
28-03-07, 18:33
4) Going from pole to pole (at its top): When she reaches a pole, she has to find her balance back before jumping to another.
Thats great news.
But the legend manor? :mad:
For gods sake....
Anyway, thanks for the info, and welcome to the forum!;)
Ward Dragon
28-03-07, 18:35
Thanks for posting this review, MoonSword :) Did you get to play the demo yourself, or you saw someone else playing it? I was wondering if, for example, you can run right up to things in the environment or if invisible walls keep you at a distance from touching the walls/debris/etc. I was also wondering if you can grab anything that looks like Lara should be able to grab it. Thanks again, especially if you can answer my questions :)
Edit: Depending how it's implemented, the IC with the T-rex might not be too bad. I always get tense during IC's and end up not paying attention to the actual visuals because I'm so focused on the next button prompt, though. As a bonus, can CD have the IC's selectable with the normal cutscenes after we win the game so that we can watch the IC's as if they were normal cutscenes? At least after I get past the IC, I'd like to be able to watch it again without getting distracted by button prompts or having to do anything :)
About the manor, I don't buy the "new fans wouldn't understand" excuse. They could have just put a note in the manual saying, "This was Lara's house 10 years ago. She has more than one."
tlr online
28-03-07, 18:36
Thank you, and welcome aboard. :wve:
AmericanAssassin
28-03-07, 18:36
New fans wouldn't understand? Who cares? This game was created to celebrate 10 years of Lara Croft and to celebrate Tomb Raider I, but they have included the Legend mansion because new fans wouldn't "understand"...? That's a load of BS. :hea: :hea: :hea:
100% exactly correct! :cen: CD! They should be trying to redeem themselves with us, the true Tomb Raider fans, not the new people! :cen:
george_croft
28-03-07, 18:37
Thanks you for sharing this :) Welcome to the forums:wve:
100% exactly correct! :cen: CD! They should be trying to redeem themselves with us, the true Tomb Raider fans, not the new people! :cen:
They can sod off now. :hea:
mono_blaine
28-03-07, 18:38
Yeah, the CLASSIC MANSION PLEASE CRYSTAL DYNAMICS. WHICH PART OF 'STAY TRUE TO THE ORIGINAL' DIDN'T YOU UNDERSTAND?
:cen:
Agree.
Day by day, we get to know what this presumably called "Anniversary" really is... Thank you so much CD and Eidos...
I feel weary right now from Eidos' treatment of older fans. What a patronising and fickle justification to take out the classic mansion. This is surely an example of them changing Tomb Raider history to suit their new audience?
And yet, I expected this all along.
Everything else sounds ok - I'll probably have fun playing the game anyway. I will be renting first of course. Let's just wait and see how much this game has been Legendified.
Welcome to the forum ! Thx for the preview... Everything I read is awsome !
And can you stop using this : :cen:
Be angry ok, but with respect... Anyway, TR1 mansion or TRL manor... I like both of them ! :)
Sara Croft
28-03-07, 18:39
Legend manor .. Crystal dynamics.. i mean http://www.smiliegenerator.de/s32/smilies-22518.png
Now im really starting to wonder how Core`s version would have been...
:yah:
Thank you! :D
EDIT: Reading through... are you sure this is real? Do you have proof?
Well, I have no proof in hand to present you, other than to say that it was an official presentation of Eidos France.
I admit that some new information to be discovered that way may look strange, not coming from Eidos UK first. But well, who cares, right?
I can post a pic from Eidos' presentation room, as we were not allowed to take pics of the demo. Moderators: What constraints to post a pic without bothering the forum?
AmericanAssassin
28-03-07, 18:40
And can you stop using this : :cen:
Be angry ok, but with respect...
I'll use ":cen:" as I please. No other similies represent how I, and many others, feel about this.
EDIT: Here's one I just created: http://www.smiliegenerator.de/s32/smilies-22523.png
actually I don't really care about darn manor
Hello,
There will be 3 levels of difficulty, not from levels' length, but from ennemies' strength and number of items found (the more difficult, the less big items found, for example a small medipack instead of a big one). Grapple hints will be disabled at the highest difficulty (or at least they will appear at the lowest, well, er, I don't know for the intermediate level).
Some ennemies catch Lara's arm, and you have to get free before fighting again. More realistic in a way ther's a slight delay before she recovers.
Ennemies' IA seems really good. The unofficial Egypt video was a bit scaring about this, but what I've seen (the same scene) was much better. As soon as they see you, ennemies rush towards you and almost never stop attacking you. You have to have reflexes. Seems to be a big improvement compared to TR:L.
2) The wall-run can be chaged. You can stop the balance, and turn into a climb up/down.
4) Going from pole to pole (at its top): When she reaches a pole, she has to find her balance back before jumping to another.
These bits sound WONDERFUL to me. Thanks a million for posting. Hope you had a great time.
That's :cen:! They wouldn't understand?! :cen: them! We matter more than the new players! God, I hate CD so :cen: much!
EDIT: I think they're big :cen: liars! They were probably just too lazy to start over with the old mansion! :cen: I hate them!
EDIT 2: Thanx anyway and welcome to the forums.
who cares about the classic games and classic fans?
no one it seems,only the new fans matter :( :mad:
tlr online
28-03-07, 18:44
Well, I have no proof in hand to present you, other than to say that it was an official presentation of Eidos France.
I admit that some new information to be discovered that way may look strange, not coming from Eidos UK first. But well, who cares, right?
I can post a pic from Eidos' presentation room, as we were not allowed to take pics of the demo. Moderators: What constraints to post a pic without bothering the forum?
Moon. Go right ahead and upload your picture to www.photobucket.com and post here. Welcome again. :wve:
Well, I have no proof in hand to present you, other than to say that it was an official presentation of Eidos France.
I admit that some new information to be discovered that way may look strange, not coming from Eidos UK first. But well, who cares, right?
I can post a pic from Eidos' presentation room, as we were not allowed to take pics of the demo. Moderators: What constraints to post a pic without bothering the forum?
It's okay, I believe you. :) Thank you for taking the time to type this out, and welcome to the forums.
The max size is 800*600 pixels.
I'm surprised that all you people are surprised. I mean what else does a "reimagining" imply? The word reimagining certainly doesn't seem like to "stay true" to something.
Of course we will have to wait and see what it is really like to decide...but I think my mind is mostly made up already.
Ward Dragon
28-03-07, 18:50
I'm surprised that all you people are surprised. I mean what else does a "reimagining" imply? The word reimagining certainly doesn't seem like to "stay true" to something.
Of course we will have to wait and see what it is really like to decide...but I think my mind is mostly made up already.
I'm not surprised, but I am a bit disappointed :(
@MoonSword, did you actually get to play the demo yourself? I'm not clear if you got to play it, or if you watched someone from Eidos play it :)
Sara Croft
28-03-07, 18:51
Im surpriced they did it.
For all this time we have said:
I hope they keep the old manor, just for memories sake.
I would love to see the good old manor back, especially in the anniversary.
And such.
Now NEW TR fans wont understand what? That she had a different house 10 years ago?
DAMN IT!
Clara [CA]
28-03-07, 18:52
EDIT: Reading through... are you sure this is real? Do you have proof?
Yes, Angelus, this is real ;)
Thanks for posting this review, MoonSword :) Did you get to play the demo yourself, or you saw someone else playing it? I was wondering if, for example, you can run right up to things in the environment or if invisible walls keep you at a distance from touching the walls/debris/etc. I was also wondering if you can grab anything that looks like Lara should be able to grab it. Thanks again, especially if you can answer my questions :)
Edit: Depending how it's implemented, the IC with the T-rex might not be too bad. I always get tense during IC's and end up not paying attention to the actual visuals because I'm so focused on the next button prompt, though. As a bonus, can CD have the IC's selectable with the normal cutscenes after we win the game so that we can watch the IC's as if they were normal cutscenes? At least after I get past the IC, I'd like to be able to watch it again without getting distracted by button prompts or having to do anything :)
About the manor, I don't buy the "new fans wouldn't understand" excuse. They could have just put a note in the manual saying, "This was Lara's house 10 years ago. She has more than one."
Ward Dragon, we did not play ourselves, unfortunately! :( Well, as far as I'm concerned I'm on PC and not used to console controls. I've looked carefully and didn't notice any invisible wall and see that the interaction with the environment seems improved compared to TR:L. The player grabbed some rocks to make them fall and walked back to avoid being crushed.
The T-Rex cutscene was really amazing. Personnally, I liked the cut scenes.
This excuse looks strange I agree. But I've been told that the sale's market in America was similar to France's where I live! So you see, Eidos is trying to promote the franchise in the US, and they will succeed by taking such decisions that can make some hardcore fans unhappy.:mad:
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 18:52
CD care more about the new fans, the new fans were the ones who absolutely adored Legend, so maybe CD thought they would give them something nice, and not us.
da tomb raider!
28-03-07, 18:53
I'm not exactly surprised, hell, I've been expecting the worst when I first heard Anniversary was being developed by Crystal Dynamics. But seriously, doesn't putting the Tomb Raider 1 mansion in a game celebrating it make more sense?
EDIT: Here's one I just created: http://www.smiliegenerator.de/s32/smilies-22523.png
I like your smilie. :D
Oh well. It's now official. CD like new players more than old players.
AmericanAssassin
28-03-07, 18:54
CD care more about the new fans, the new fans were the ones who absolutely adored Legend, so maybe CD thought they would give them something nice, and not us. (IMO).
I wouldn't write "IMO" if I was you. Why? Because it's not a matter of opinion. They do care about them more. They always talk about them, and not us. I guess it's something we're all just going to have to accept. :(
I know I'm in a minority here, but whats so bad about the legend mansion? I found the legend mansion to be easily the best mansion tomb raider has ever seen. If TRA adds an outside then its almost the perfect mansion. The treasurehunt theme of the legend mansion for finding rewards was brilliant and I spent more time in legends mansion than I ever did in TR1-3s mansions.
I'm surprised that all you people are surprised. I mean what else does a "reimagining" imply? The word reimagining certainly doesn't seem like to "stay true" to something.
Of course we will have to wait and see what it is really like to decide...but I think my mind is mostly made up already.
great, you've just boosted my confidence regarding the Star Trek XI "re imagined" movie...thanks :(
i'm just teasing. but come on!!!! WE classic fans deserve better, it is US that's supported TR over the years
sorry mods but....to hell with the new fans with regard to this particular game, this is TR Anniversary it is WE that matter the most....TR 8 is fair game IMO but not this one :(
we want Core's, when do we want it, now (chant) :jmp:
Moon-Safari
28-03-07, 18:55
If by reimagining they meant steamrolling my memories and making the game the way wanted, then I wish they wouldnt have bothered. You dont take The classic new york setting of king kong and say "you know what, this is a reimagining, i think the remake will take place is L.A." This isn't an homage to the classic game, this is CD's self gratifying "my way is better" mentality. I knew that they were trampling on the fans from the moment they announced a "special edition" version, which mostly hardcore fans will buy. I've been waiting for the mansion since tomb raider 4 and this was CD's chance to be the hero. They are a money hungry anti-christ to me. Just when i was feeling hopeful for this game, they've stolen one of the greatest moments in Tomb Raider history.
I'm not surprised, but I am a bit disappointed :(
Being convinced this would happen since the beginning doesn't lessen the disappointment for me either. But I'm just at that point now where I feel like "why bother?"
It feels like the only stuff that was changed was what the media, not the fans suggested. I'm gradualy being silenced by their seemingly conscious ignorance. I don't even feel it would be worth suggesting anything for Tomb Raider 8 already. How sad. I wonder if others feel the same?
And yes, I do keep reminding myself to wait until I play the game...but its becoming a challenge.
AmericanAssassin
28-03-07, 18:56
I know I'm in a minority here, but whats so bad about the legend mansion? I found the legend mansion to be easily the best mansion tomb raider has ever seen. If TRA adds an outside then its almost the perfect mansion. The treasurehunt theme of the legend mansion for finding rewards was brilliant and I spent more time in legends mansion than I ever did in TR1-3s mansions.
No! No! No! We wanted to see the old mansion in the glory that is possible today! It had so much potential, but now we'll never see it. :(
Huge thanks, very interesting reading
many great info in there
I usually don't like to complain, but the mansion should be the original, many people will be mad about this (including me)
Being convinced this would happen since the beginning doesn't lessen the disappointment for me either. But I'm just at that point now where I feel like "why bother?"
It feels like the only stuff that was changed was what the media, not the fans suggested. I'm gradualy being silenced by their seemingly conscious ignorance. How sad. I wonder if others feel the same?Absolutely right! :tmb: Excellent statement there.
thing of dust
28-03-07, 18:58
I really liked Legend, but I'm kind of annoyed they used the Legend Mansion. The Legend mansion was trash. I was really looking forward to seeing the classic mansion in modern graphics. :(
Thanks for sharing this and welcome to the forums :wve:
That was an intresting read. Pretty much positive ecxept for that croft manor :(
The enemy AI sounds intresting and can't wait to see how hard the battles really are this time :)
This is a remake of Tomb Raider I. To celebrate the game, and its success all over the world. Without this game, we wouldnt be here talking now.
Crystal Dynamics have lazily used the mansion from Legend instead of remaking the mansion from TR I. Why? Because "new fans wouldn't understand". Who cares? It's a remake, I'm sure people will realise that it was included in TR I.
The TR I mansion may have been small in the first game, but Crystal Dynamics really had a chance to show us what they can do, and to show us that they care about our memories and nostalgia. They obviously don't.
Crystal Dynamics have ruined one part of the game for me. Let's not see it happen again.
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 19:01
This is a remake of Tomb Raider I. To celebrate the game, and its success all over the world. Without this game, we wouldnt be here talking now.
Crystal Dynamics have lazily used the mansion from Legend instead of remaking the mansion from TR I. Why? Because "new fans wouldn't understand". Who cares? It's a remake, I'm sure people will realise that it was included in TR I.
The TR I mansion may have been small in the first game, but Crystal Dynamics really had a chance to show us what they can do, and to show us that they care about our memories and nostalgia. They obviously don't.
Crystal Dynamics have ruined one part of the game for me. Let's not see it happen again.
*Applauds*
I'm with you, but Crystal Dynamics haven't one part of the game for me, they have ruined quite a lot, and I would personally like to see a new developer.
Ward Dragon
28-03-07, 19:01
Ward Dragon, we did not play ourselves, unfortunately! :( Well, as far as I'm concerned I'm on PC and not used to console controls. I've looked carefully and didn't notice any invisible wall and see that the interaction with the environment seems improved compared to TR:L. The player grabbed some rocks to make them fall and walked back to avoid being crushed.
The T-Rex cutscene was really amazing. Personnally, I liked the cut scenes.
This excuse looks strange I agree. But I've been told that the sale's market in America was similar to France's where I live! So you see, Eidos is trying to promote the franchise in the US, and they will succeed by taking such decisions that can make some hardcore fans unhappy.:mad:
Ah, thanks :) I see now. I'm glad to hear that you didn't see any invisible walls and that everything looked more interactive than Legend (that's been my biggest gameplay worry for TRA, aside from the hints which are now optional). I'm also very relieved to hear that the cutscene with the T-rex is good. The T-rex actually wasn't my biggest concern, but I was a bit worried that it would be a let down after all of the hype.
I know I'm in a minority here, but whats so bad about the legend mansion? I found the legend mansion to be easily the best mansion tomb raider has ever seen. If TRA adds an outside then its almost the perfect mansion. The treasurehunt theme of the legend mansion for finding rewards was brilliant and I spent more time in legends mansion than I ever did in TR1-3s mansions.
I liked the treasure hunt theme in the mansion. I would have expected that to be in TRA even if TRA had the classic manor. I know I'm a bit of a one-track record concerning coloration, but I like the way the classic manor was colored. It felt more cozy, like it was really Lara's "humble abode." The Legend mansion looks more like a museum than a place where someone lives.
Being convinced this would happen since the beginning doesn't lessen the disappointment for me either. But I'm just at that point now where I feel like "why bother?"
It feels like the only stuff that was changed was what the media, not the fans suggested. I'm gradualy being silenced by their seemingly conscious ignorance. I don't even feel it would be worth suggesting anything for Tomb Raider 8 already. How sad. I wonder if others feel the same?
And yes, I do keep reminding myself to wait until I play the game...but its becoming a challenge.
I know what you mean. I'm gradually getting to that frame of mind too :(
"why bother?"
That's exactly my point of view. We'll get another new Tomb Raider very soon, so I'm happy. When I'll finish to play it, I'll complaint about what I will find odd or ugly or dumb. Not before.
And besides, I already said that I would prefer the old mansion. One time is enough. ;)
Sara Croft
28-03-07, 19:03
*Applauds*
I'm with you, but Crystal Dynamics haven't one part of the game for me, they have ruined quite a lot, and I would personally like to see a new developer.
I would rather like to see the old developer, though i agree with you and angelus.
GROCD.
thanks and welcome to the forums MoonSword :)
sigh :( legend manor.. i really thought it'd be the classic house, i mean, if they read these forums a lot didn't they notice all the polls and comments on how we wanted a classic mansion?? :( :( :(
I would rather like to see the old developer, though i agree with you and angelus.
GROCD.
sign me up to GROCD
Core Cultist forever...remember them? :jmp:
I am increasingly becoming less hurt and disappointed with bad news like this. Why? Simply because there's so much of it, I don't really care anymore.
Anyone else feel the same?
Trigger_happy
28-03-07, 19:05
thank you ever so much for the info- The game sounds like its shaping up well! And welcome to the forum!
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 19:05
I would rather like to see the old developer, though i agree with you and angelus.
GROCD.
Well the remaining members of Core Design joined Rebellion, so Core Design exists no more.
Sara Croft
28-03-07, 19:06
Well the remaining members of Core Design joined Rebellion, so Core Design exists no more.
Still like to see the old, i know its impossible, but we all have our dreams...
AmericanAssassin
28-03-07, 19:06
I am increasingly becoming less hurt and disappointed with bad news like this. Why? Simply because there's so much of it, I don't really care anymore.
Anyone else feel the same?
I'm beginning to feel that way. I can't remember the last time I heard news that reminded me of the classics. A remake is it? A joke more like.
P.S. I love your signature! ;)
I'm beginning to feel that way. I can't remember the last time I heard news that reminded me of the classics. A remake is it? A joke more like.Oh yeah, it's a remake. But a very poor one by the looks of it.
Thank you :) :p
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 19:08
I'm beginning to feel that way. I can't remember the last time I heard news that reminded me of the classics. A remake is it? A joke more like.
A joke? I call it a mockery! A remake of TR1, I think not!
TombRaiderLover
28-03-07, 19:09
Why do CD care so much about new fans? **** new fans!
As much I don't like AE so far. I have to ask. Since when has this been a remake? It's been always stated as a re-imagination. Not a complete remake. But I really would've loved that they had included the orignal croft manor instead of that silly legend mansion. ''New fans wouldn't get it.'' The hell with it.. New fans only have watched three movies (count legend as a movie).
AmericanAssassin
28-03-07, 19:10
Why do CD care so much about new fans? **** new fans!
http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/ernaehrung/food-smiley-004.gif Cheers.
Sara Croft
28-03-07, 19:10
Keep the old fans, we helped it becoming so big, New fans just goes with the flow to be honest :P
Why do CD care so much about new fans? **** new fans!
well said :mad:
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 19:11
May I just say that this was suppose to be about the report, not all about Croft Manor...
Why I feel like a part of me has just died? I (and as I see, most of the old fans) like the old mansion better. Why the Legend one? Because new fans wouldn't understand it? Since when is this about the 'new' fans?
...new fans wouldn't understand...
This line has officially ruined the half of the game for me. Thanks Eidos. Now I know, that AE is not a game to celebrate the tenth anniversary of TR1, it's a commercial to get new fans.
I hate the Legend manor. The original one looked like a place, where a though archaeologist would live. The furnitures, carpets everything was elegant and nice. Legend's furniture reminded me those cheap stuffs you can get in IKEA (Especially the sofa and the bed)
Gravastars
28-03-07, 19:12
What's with this "Us and them" mentality? For some reason, a lot of people on this forum seem to think that they are somehow above fans of whom are new to the franchise.
That's :cen:! They wouldn't understand?! :cen: them! We matter more than the new players! God, I hate CD so much!
No, we don't matter more. CD do not owe us anything.
CD are not catering towards anyone in particular, what they are trying to do is make a game that is appealing to all fans of the series, old or new. They are not siding with either piece of this dichotomy you have created, they do not "care more about the new fans". They just want to make it work for everyone and so far, I think they aren't doing too bad, despite the fact that I would have loved to see a return of the classic mansion.
People seem to be jumping on the negatives and ignoring the fact that there are still MANY things which CD have gotten right this time, they are clearly making an effort and hopefully, the final product will reflect this.
AmericanAssassin
28-03-07, 19:13
May I just say that this was suppose to be about the report, not all about Croft Manor...
True, there was 1 positive point that caught my eye. They said that a next generation version isn't out of the question. Maybe in the future. I certainly hope so. :)
Thanks for posting, very interesting and informative. :D And welcome to the forums also!
I liked both of the mansions, but because it's Anniversary it would have been more obvious and nostalgic if they showed us expressly TR1's mansion in all it's glory, but made it much wider and so... Legend's manor could have been in the next game then, duh. But well, we'll just have to live with it. Come on, that text is full of other things that are merely positive(at least they made me very excited)! :jmp: Direct your hopes in these, nothing can be perfect and just how we like it to be.
Edit:
May I just say that this was suppose to be about the report, not all about Croft Manor...
Agreed! :tmb:
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 19:14
True, there was 1 positive point that caught my eye. They said that a next generation version isn't out of the question. Maybe in the future. I certainly hope so. :)
I certainly hope not, TRA would scar the PS3 and 360 for life, I won't allow that!
Why do CD care so much about new fans? **** new fans!
1000000000000000000000000000% agreed. :tmb:
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 19:15
A new thread about the manor, please complain here: http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=90637
Like almost everybody else, I liked pretty much all of what was said except for the manor/mansion. New fans wouldn't understand? WTF? What's there to understand about a heroine's home? Why shouldn't she have lived in more than one home during her life like everybody else? If CD really think people would get confused, they must expect them to be pretty freaking stupid.
Oh yeah... my personal opinion. The manor was in TR1, the movie mansion wasn't. 'Nuff said.
Can you actually hear what she whispers?
AmericanAssassin
28-03-07, 19:20
Like almost everybody else, I liked pretty much all of what was said except for the manor/mansion. New fans wouldn't understand? WTF? What's there to understand about a heroine's home? Why shouldn't she have lived in more than one home during her life like everybody else? If CD really think people would get confused, they must expect them to be pretty freaking stupid.
Oh yeah... my personal opinion. The manor was in TR1, the movie mansion wasn't. 'Nuff said.
:hug: I feel the need to hug you!
Can you actually hear what she whispers?
Lol...she talks to herself? I imagine she just got back from the insane asylum. :vlol:
fondantcookie
28-03-07, 19:21
That's :cen:! They wouldn't understand?! :cen: them! We matter more than the new players! God, I hate CD so :cen: much!
EDIT: I think they're big :cen: liars! They were probably just too lazy to start over with the old mansion! :cen: I hate them!
EDIT 2: Thanx anyway and welcome to the forums.
My sentiments exactly...
They have eessentially just ***** slapped the old fans in the face !!
:cen: :cen: :cen:
Ahh well....they won't be getting my money....
If CD really think people would get confused, they must expect them to be pretty freaking stupid.
Well given that crystals target audience for Legend seemed to be special-ed four year olds....i'd say it's no surprise...
Its frigging insulting it is...and i'm anoyed beyond belief. Its just another way for Crystal to **** all over cores work and take all the credit themselves....
They had the PERFECT opportunity to work the old mansion into the AE..heck, it even says in the CRYSTAL biography that Lara has THREE estates.... Whats so ****ing confusing about that? Just another indicator that this game has been made for idiots !!!
Like almost everybody else, I liked pretty much all of what was said except for the manor/mansion. New fans wouldn't understand? WTF? What's there to understand about a heroine's home? Why shouldn't she have lived in more than one home during her life like everybody else? If CD really think people would get confused, they must expect them to be pretty freaking stupid.
Yeah, good explanation. Only just dawned on me. They think we're all stupid.
Dare I mention Legend?
These bits sound WONDERFUL to me. Thanks a million for posting. Hope you had a great time.
I did! :jmp: Maybe I'm a little too optimistic, but it looks real good to me. I'm not a hardcore gamer, and i've no real comparison point other than previous TR versions.
I.Am.Natla
28-03-07, 19:22
I'm not going to freak out until I've seen some screenies from the Manor. I'm fine with both, and it did say there would be elemnts of the class included. I'll accept that and judge it once some imagery is released thankyou.
The thing I'm worried about is the point you made about how only a little non-linearity was shown in the demo :|
Sounds great, this manor thing really doesn't matter to me I mean if it was a true remake of TR1 then all you'd get is a boring house with a bunch of boxes in the middle. I don't see why Crystal would go back to a mansion that made absolutely no sense. I mean I know it was in the originals but why would they go back to the one bedroom "mansion" when they have a great manor created that they should expand upon.
jeremyANDROGYNY
28-03-07, 19:23
Thank you very much for that report although
That's :cen:! They wouldn't understand?! :cen: them! We matter more than the new players! God, I hate CD so :cen: much!
EDIT: I think they're big :cen: liars! They were probably just too lazy to start over with the old mansion! :cen: I hate them!
EDIT 2: Thanx anyway and welcome to the forums.
I can agree much with AA on this one. I am going to miss that old mansion. :(
Im happy with the report. I did think that they would remake the classic Mansion, but Im fine with them using the Legend Mansion. This may give them the chance to do whaty they wanted to do with the Legend Mansion, finish it off, and then maybe in TR8, it will blow up or she will move and have a new (more classic) home.
Can you actually hear what she whispers?
Yes, it was something like "hop!" (works in french, but the demo was in UK).
And the higher the effort is, the higher the whisper is (this is what I noticed, although it might be random, not enough time to see).
The first thing disapoited is t-rex cutscenes, the second - those hard, average and easy modes, the third - legend mansion :hea: :hea:
It's okay, I believe you. :) Thank you for taking the time to type this out, and welcome to the forums.
The max size is 800*600 pixels.
It's OK. The picture worths it, anyway. Here it is:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t260/ohug/PICT0011_1024.jpg
It was all decorated with Egyptian style. No window, we could think we were in a tomb. They said they set it up for press releases, but thought it could be good for fan preview as well. Good for them!:D
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 19:46
http://i5.tinypic.com/2zr3qqp.jpg
:wve:
After getting all excited by the official site update, this review is a bit of a bummer. Don't get me wrong, the review was nicely writen and reported to us, thanks for that. But not getting the original home??? That's just wrong giving us legends manor. http://www.storagebin.us/smilies/smilies/NONO-2.gif Just wrong!!! http://www.storagebin.us/smilies/smilies/rant.gif But the other thing that really hit me hard is the bit about being 30-40% bigger than legend... :eek: Really? So instead of 6 hours of gameplay we'll get 9??? :( That is not incredibly bigger. :mad: I was expecting 200-250% bigger than legend! Legend was truly one quarter the length of any other TR game! :hea: So even if TRA was 200% larger, that would only be half the length of a normal TR game... http://www.storagebin.us/smilies/smilies/sad2.gif
touchmyheart
28-03-07, 19:51
Sounds incredible! I still can't wait to play this game, I dont mind that much about the manor. If they remove all Zip's hi tech business it's fine with me :D
It could still feel like the classic mansion cos' i always thought TR1 mansion was kinda dull anyway...*ducks from angry rock throwing*
I prefer the second and third mansions :)
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 19:52
If they remove all Zip's hi tech business it's fine with me :D
I forget about that, maybe they will put a gigantic wardrobe there! :jmp: :yah:
(Sarcastic)
Sara Croft
28-03-07, 19:59
Maybe if we`re lucky we might get to burn her in her fireplace, just to show the love.
EDIT: And her wardrobe.
Thank you!!!:)
Everything sounds perfect!:jmp:
Especially the rolling dive:yah:
After getting all excited by the official site update, this review is a bit of a bummer. Don't get me wrong, the review was nicely writen and reported to us, thanks for that. But not getting the original home??? That's just wrong giving us legends manor. http://www.storagebin.us/smilies/smilies/NONO-2.gif Just wrong!!! http://www.storagebin.us/smilies/smilies/rant.gif But the other thing that really hit me hard is the bit about being 30-40% bigger than legend... :eek: Really? So instead of 6 hours of gameplay we'll get 9??? :( That is not incredibly bigger. :mad: I was expecting 200-250% bigger than legend! Legend was truly one quarter the length of any other TR game! :hea: So even if TRA was 200% larger, that would only be half the length of a normal TR game... http://www.storagebin.us/smilies/smilies/sad2.gif
thevman, they argued that the high length of TR1 was kind of artificial by the fact that you have to make hundreds of adjustment moves to be sure to make a good jump. And that you often failed and had to retry. That maybe true, but still it took me ages to complete the game.
Besides, promoting exploration with less fight can improve the game's length. It was fun trying to find the little cogs to make the full system work. I don't have fresh memories of TR1, but reminds me so.
Moon-Safari
28-03-07, 20:02
WOW lara can cannon bomb. thats either going to be fun to do or its going to be pretty damn stupid.
Sounds incredible! I still can't wait to play this game, I dont mind that much about the manor. If they remove all Zip's hi tech business it's fine with me :D
It could still feel like the classic mansion cos' i always thought TR1 mansion was kinda dull anyway...*ducks from angry rock throwing*
I prefer the second and third mansions :)
I can confirm. No high tech stuff. It's supposed to happen 10 years ahead of TR:L!
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 20:04
Ahead, I thought it was before?
thevman, they argued that the high length of TR1 was kind of artificial by the fact that you have to make hundreds of adjustment moves to be sure to make a good jump. And that you often failed and had to retry. That maybe true, but still it took me ages to complete the game.
Besides, promoting exploration with less fight can improve the game's length. It was fun trying to find the little cogs to make the full system work. I don't have fresh memories of TR1, but reminds me so.
MoonSword
did you get to here any music?
if so what was it like? :)
fondantcookie
28-03-07, 20:07
After getting all excited by the official site update, this review is a bit of a bummer. Don't get me wrong, the review was nicely writen and reported to us, thanks for that. But not getting the original home??? That's just wrong giving us legends manor. http://www.storagebin.us/smilies/smilies/NONO-2.gif Just wrong!!! http://www.storagebin.us/smilies/smilies/rant.gif But the other thing that really hit me hard is the bit about being 30-40% bigger than legend... :eek: Really? So instead of 6 hours of gameplay we'll get 9??? :( That is not incredibly bigger. :mad: I was expecting 200-250% bigger than legend! Legend was truly one quarter the length of any other TR game! :hea: So even if TRA was 200% larger, that would only be half the length of a normal TR game... http://www.storagebin.us/smilies/smilies/sad2.gif
Woo...I said the exact same thing about four hours ago before this media overload...
.
.
.
...the names Mystic... Mystic-Meg... :jmp:
Seems Crystal are slacking and just can't produce a decent lengthy game...
They claimed Legend would take around 10-12 hours first play through...but it took me no more than six...(on HARD i might add)
So by claiming the AE will be 30/40% bigger....they actually mean 15-20% bigger..which thus conveys to around 8-9 hours gameplay....
:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
Pathetic if you ask me... What happened to the days when a good old Tomb Raider would take you about a month to complete....even with consistent perseverence?
And don't go telling mke people these days want "short sharp thrill rides"...Thats complete :cen: BS Mr Livingston. Especially when games like Final Fantasy XII and Oblivion are amongst some of the most popular games to date....
:)
....more let down...
I can confirm. No high tech stuff. It's supposed to happen 10 years ahead of TR:L!
Ahead, I thought it was before?
I don't think it's possible to place it years before TRL. I mean, in the latter, Lara was somewhere in her twenties, more likely the early than the late ones. That would make her a teenager in TRA, which is total nonsense - she was 27 in TR1.
The_Terminator
28-03-07, 20:08
An opposing view from an old fan:
Yeah, I'm disappointed about the mansion, but in no way does it sway my opinion of the game.
I mean, how much time did you spend running around the mansion already? Yeah, it's a fun way to kill some time, but it's not the main thrust of the game.
I was MUCH more upset about the overuse of swingy poles than the mansion.
The mansion is a side show. The game is the main event. And although I was disappointed with the egypt footage, I'm very hopeful from the screen shots.
Not every thread has to be turned into "Crystal Dynamics sucks and doesn't care about the old fans." They DO care. They want your money and want to keep their jobs.
Nobody is sitting in a room saying, "now let's see.....how can we screw the fans today? MWUH HA HA H AH AH AH H AH HA HA HA HA!!!"
And lest anyone say I'm not a true fan, I was playing the original and soaking it all in before some of you were born, so I won't accept that! :)
Sara Croft
28-03-07, 20:10
*The new fans wouldnt understand*
Now tell me, how inn hell would the old fans unedrstand?
I dont think they think of every possible way of mocking us, but i DO think they will do alot to not look like core, including mansion going away...
EDIT: And lara`s home was alot for me, i still paly through it. The stairs, the fire place to climp up on, the aquarium in the cellar, the freezer, winston IN the freezer, outside, the gate etc etc.
I still play several hours in there (old TR games)
Meybe we need to make petition or poll?
I too am gutted by them admitting they saw the legend manor, not TR1 mansion in TRA. That is so wrong on so many levels. They couldn't remake it? I was sooooooooooooooo looking forward to seeing the old mansion updated! And seeing new rooms to it, not legend's manor. We'll get legend's manor in TR8 and they can add to it in that game! I just want to explode right now... http://www.storagebin.us/smilies/smilies/freak1.gif
Thanks for the report! :wve: I'm feeling the same about the mansion - espeically as they said in one interview whether or not it'd be the classic mansion "Oh come on, what sort of a remake would it be without it?"
Anyway,
Could you explain more about the "diving in a grouped style" thing please? :wve:
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 20:12
Meybe we need to make petition or poll?
A poll about what?
I was responding to something Reggie said in the TRL Manor thread but then when I went to post it, the thread was closed so since this has to do with what was being discussed there I will post this response for Reggie and others.
That's ok Slick, soon those such as myself who would have preferred something more faithful will soon be drowned out by ignored and told to shut up. So you'll get your wish at some point. I have no idea whether or not you are new to the series or not. But at some point, CD or whatever company it may down the line will probably decide that there is a better market to cater to.
In other words. Once most of the complainers have long gone, the new fans will quickly become old seeing how fickle the industry can be.
That's all I really wanted to say.
I think I better shut up now. ;)
Well to clear it up I've been with TR since the start and have loved every episode(Though AOD & I had issues, I still enjoyed it) That being said, I always loved the classic mansion but to me (being all about architecture) it never made sense. When TR4 came out and there was no mansion I was very sad, when TR6 came out and still no Manor it was even sadder. TRL came out and there actually was a mansion, and not only was there a mansion but it actually MADE sense architecturally and was very beautiful.
The idea of getting an updated TRL mansion in this game really excites me because the original was so well made that I cannot wait to see how they have improved upon it.
Now getting to the "complainers" I have nothing wrong with people stating their opinion and constructively being against something. But when a thread is made and all there is is "CD is Selfish, who cares about the new fans, this is sooooo stupid, CD has thrown the game in the toilet etc" that is not constructive critism and nobody will take you seriously, all that is is a group of people whining and instead of actually making a difference you're just encouraging CD or EIDOS to ignore what you have to say. So if you really want to get CD or EIDOS to change something and take you guys seriously....you should go about these threads with a little more control and present yourselves properly. That's all I had to say
da tomb raider!
28-03-07, 20:16
Crystal Dynamics using the Legend manor for Anniversary makes me think if Crystal Dynamics are lazy. In my opinion, them taking 2 and a half years to make an unfinished game which I completed 100% in 4 days without a walkthrough is pretty damn lazy. And now this? I know it's not the worst thing ever, but I'm disappointed with Crystal Dynamics for this, and it makes me think about how the actual levels will be, too. Still, I'm still going to wait and see when I play the game myself.
I'm still not entirely sure how I feel about this recent development. This is the first time Crystal Dynamics is making me a little apprehensive.
On one hand, I prefer the Manor in Legend. Blasphemy, I know, but I actually thought there was more to do there than in the previous mansions (regardless of the outfits so spare me any Barbie bull). And from my perspective, sans Zip and Alister, it felt more like something Lara would live in. I always found the classic mansion kinda... tacky.
On the other hand, I think it would have been really amazing to see Crystal Dynamics recreate the original mansion, even if it was just for Anniversary. As with the rest of the game, I didn't necessarily want it an exact remake with nothing more than updated graphics, but to see them pull more inspiration from the classic would have been appreciated.
For the moment, though, I don't really think I can make a judgment. It sounds like Crystal Dynamics (at least based from the report given by MoonSword) is continuing the trend of blending both classic and new elements together, and I like what I've seen so far, both from Legend and Anniversary. So for now, I'm staying optimistic and keeping an open mind.
Tomb Raider Jay
28-03-07, 20:17
Well as soon as I get Anniversary I'll be heading straight to the menu configurations and changing it to hard!! :mis: - I don't wanna see any helpful hints and glowing grapple points because I actually have a brain to work things out, you know what a brain is, right Crystal Dynamics? :ton:
Still great perview, ta very much! :)
T- Rex intro an interactive cutscene? and the Legend Mansion? :hea:
A poll about what?
Poll about which one we prefare: Legend Manoson, Old Manor or not mind.
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 20:18
Poll about which one we prefare: Legend Manoson, Old Manor or not mind.
There is one in the Anniversary section somewhere, and if this information is correct, does it really matter?
fondantcookie
28-03-07, 20:19
I always loved the classic mansion but to me (being all about architecture) it never made senss [....] TRL came out and there actually was a mansion, and not only was there a mansion but it actually MADE sense architecturally and was very beautiful.
Please could you explain what was so un-architecturally sound about the classic TR1-3 mansion?
And also, what qualifications do you have to make such a statement? Are you a qualified architect or the like?
Ahead, I thought it was before?
Sorry my mistake! Yes, before.
What's the 'diving in a grouped style' thing about Moonsword? :wve:
Hello,
I'm new to this forum and would like to share an official TR:Anniversary preview organised by Eidos France to which I had the chance to be invited to :) . They made a demo of the game and gave some interesting information. I apologize in advance if some of these information is already known, as I don't have the time to read all what is said about the game. :(
Unfortunately, we were not allowed to take pictures, as Eidos does not want bad quality shots to be released, or screens that potentially show a bug.....
Comments welcomed
Thank you for the low-down!
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 20:21
Sorry my mistake! Yes, before.
Thanks for confirming that. Mona is going to ticked off because I proved her wrong, hehehe. :D
I think Terminator makes a good point about the mansion. It is the sideshow. Personally I don't want them to feel they have to devote loads and loads of game development time making this house. I'd prefer their efforts went elsewhere.
On the other hand, I sincerely understand how important it is to some people. So fair enough. :)
But please, just remember, the more you make it into an issue, the more time and effort and gameplay time it will probably eat into in later games...
----
As regards to the game time. I was hoping it'd be longer than 30 - 40% Legend length too. I know to some degree they are constrained by the TR1 blue-print, even though it is a re-imagining not a 1:1 remake, but I still think they could have extended it.
I really hope they rethink their games development strategy on this one for TR8. Anything less than 20 hours gameplay is not TR to me.
----
Thanks Moon for the lovely write up. :tmb: :)
Thanks for the report! :wve: I'm feeling the same about the mansion - espeically as they said in one interview whether or not it'd be the classic mansion "Oh come on, what sort of a remake would it be without it?"
Anyway,
Could you explain more about the "diving in a grouped style" thing please? :wve:
I don't know the word in English. You know, when you group yourself like in phoetal position. Kids often do that at the pool.
I don't know if I made myself clear :o Anyway, it was fun after having always seen Lara falling the same way, besides swan dive that I never succeed to do :(
Thanks for confirming that. Mona is going to ticked off because I proved her wrong, hehehe. :D
Just pointing out that TRA Lara = TRL Lara - 10 years (or any period of time, if you ask me - TRL Lara was easily the youngest Lara ever, judging by her behavior) doesn't make any sense at all. ;)
StUdEnT rAiDeR
28-03-07, 20:24
Legend manor .. Crystal dynamics.. i mean http://www.smiliegenerator.de/s32/smilies-22518.png
Now im really starting to wonder how Core`s version would have been...
I know!
I thought CD would stay faithful to the original. This game is becoming worse and worse :(
I don't know the word in English. You know, when you group yourself like in phoetal position. Kids often do that at the pool.
I don't know if I made myself clear :o Anyway, it was fun after having always seen Lara falling the same way, besides swan dive that I never succeed to do :(
Oh! Bombing! :D Interesting, that should be fun!
Thanks Moonsword!
I was responding to something Reggie said in the TRL Manor thread but then when I went to post it, the thread was closed so since this has to do with what was being discussed there I will post this response for Reggie and others.
Well to clear it up I've been with TR since the start and have loved every episode(Though AOD & I had issues, I still enjoyed it) That being said, I always loved the classic mansion but to me (being all about architecture) it never made sense. When TR4 came out and there was no mansion I was very sad, when TR6 came out and still no Manor it was even sadder. TRL came out and there actually was a mansion, and not only was there a mansion but it actually MADE sense architecturally and was very beautiful.
The idea of getting an updated TRL mansion in this game really excites me because the original was so well made that I cannot wait to see how they have improved upon it.
Now getting to the "complainers" I have nothing wrong with people stating their opinion and constructively being against something. But when a thread is made and all there is is "CD is Selfish, who cares about the new fans, this is sooooo stupid, CD has thrown the game in the toilet etc" that is not constructive critism and nobody will take you seriously, all that is is a group of people whining and instead of actually making a difference you're just encouraging CD or EIDOS to ignore what you have to say. So if you really want to get CD or EIDOS to change something and take you guys seriously....you should go about these threads with a little more control and present yourselves properly. That's all I had to say
I agree totally. I also would like to point out that not all old fans have the same reaction and speaking for myself I have been very pleased with CDs work.
For the moment, though, I don't really think I can make a judgment. It sounds like Crystal Dynamics (at least based from the report given by MoonSword) is continuing the trend of blending both classic and new elements together, and I like what I've seen so far, both from Legend and Anniversary. So for now, I'm staying optimistic and keeping an open mind.
Not to me, it's more like CD is trying to wipe out all things old about TR and replace them with their own thing, all the moves, all the looks, now the home. It's just another slap in the face really. I can just hear them saying "We know better than core, you get our manor, not theirs." For crying out loud, TRA is supposed to pay TRIBUTE to TR1, not trash it. :mad: :cen: :hea:
I was responding to something Reggie said in the TRL Manor thread but then when I went to post it, the thread was closed so since this has to do with what was being discussed there I will post this response for Reggie and others.
Well to clear it up I've been with TR since the start and have loved every episode(Though AOD & I had issues, I still enjoyed it) That being said, I always loved the classic mansion but to me (being all about architecture) it never made sense. When TR4 came out and there was no mansion I was very sad, when TR6 came out and still no Manor it was even sadder. TRL came out and there actually was a mansion, and not only was there a mansion but it actually MADE sense architecturally and was very beautiful.
The idea of getting an updated TRL mansion in this game really excites me because the original was so well made that I cannot wait to see how they have improved upon it.
Now getting to the "complainers" I have nothing wrong with people stating their opinion and constructively being against something. But when a thread is made and all there is is "CD is Selfish, who cares about the new fans, this is sooooo stupid, CD has thrown the game in the toilet etc" that is not constructive critism and nobody will take you seriously, all that is is a group of people whining and instead of actually making a difference you're just encouraging CD or EIDOS to ignore what you have to say. So if you really want to get CD or EIDOS to change something and take you guys seriously....you should go about these threads with a little more control and present yourselves properly. That's all I had to say
^ True. I have to admit, I lack composure and when I hear about something like I have tonight, I don't give much time to think about what it means and what the potential upside of it could be.
On the other hand, I do feel that there has definately been constructive input by all fans and I would like to think I've consciously tried to be constructive myself.
My problems are not so much with CD as they are with Eidos and I'm just a bit miffed that "new fans would not understand" the original mansion being in Tomb Raider Anniversary.
And like I've said earlier in this thread, I'd prefer to not make decisions about the game before I've even been playing on it but its hard. Especially with all the hype surrounding it.
"Burning down" their headquarters and similar attitudes don't really appeal to me.
I think by you responding back I've realised that you and I do share similar attitudes so I apologise for the manner of my retort.
da tomb raider!
28-03-07, 20:27
Another thing I don't like is the T-Rex entrance. I don't care if it's great or crap, but in Tomb Raider 1, when you hear the music, the stomps, and then see the T-Rex roar at you before charging, I personally think it's awesome. And there aren't any cut-scenes of any type in that. If a cut-scene was there I doubt it'd be the same.
And then there's the lenght of the game. 30-40% longer than Legend? How long is that exactly? I can complete it 100% without a walkthrough in 4 days. Other might take longer ( :yik: ). 30-40% longer than Legend is still top short to me. :confused:
fondantcookie
28-03-07, 20:27
I don't know the word in English. You know, when you group yourself like in phoetal position. Kids often do that at the pool.
I don't know if I made myself clear :o Anyway, it was fun after having always seen Lara falling the same way, besides swan dive that I never succeed to do :(
A cannon ball ??? Where you jump and tuck your knees up, and bring your head into your chest !?!?! ...to make a MASSIVE splash :)
...seriosuly...what on EARTH is such a move necessary for ?!?!?! And why the heck would Lara Croft be dive-bombing into stagnant water in the middle of an ancient tomb...
Crystal have a crazy outlook on life.... Must be getting their data input with regards to what the 'fans' want from four-year olds... :P
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 20:28
Just pointing out that TRA Lara = TRL Lara - 10 years (or any period of time, if you ask me - TRL Lara was easily the youngest Lara ever, judging by her behavior) doesn't make any sense at all. ;)
Shes doesn't age, thats the answer XD.
Sara Croft
28-03-07, 20:28
I have a feeling we`ll soon have some sort of GROK`er and KTEB thing around here. But this time, it will be about wanting CD to stay to make future games, or not :P
Please could you explain what was so un-architecturally sound about the classic TR1-3 mansion?
And also, what qualifications do you have to make such a statement? Are you a qualified architect or the like?
Well first of all I went to college to be an architect for three years and have a great liking of architecture...so I feel I can make such a statement.
Now on the outside of the Mansion you saw this huge house with all these windows right? But when you go inside there is a huge foyer with the grand stairs that lead upstairs. You go to the right there is a trophy room, you go forward into what used to be the dance room turned gym and there is a pool room. And a kitchen. You go upstairs and you have a bedroom and bathroom, a sitting room and library and then the attic with the entry being about waist height. I don't know about you guys but this doesn't sound like a MANSION to me. Oh of course there is the basement too with a random little lounge with a huge aquarium. If you think about how the rooms are arranged inside and what the outside looks like.....you will see that it just doesnt make sense. I think for the original Mansion to REALLY work as a MANSION, there should have been many many more rooms and the gym should have been in a whole seperate area and not in the middle of the ballroom.
The TRL Manor is very large and grand and there are many doors and areas that you can see that implies that there is much more to the manor than those few roomes we got to visit. You can see how the house flows and connects to eachother.
Shes doesn't age, thats the answer XD.
Then they shouldn't keep telling us that this is Lara's first adventure, years before Legend, Zip & Alister, etc. ;)
They should just totally ignore Legend and any other TR games except TR1 for this one. It should really just be a one-off tribute.
:vlol:
Sorry, seeing this thread just makes me laugh. Thanks for the article, sounds great!
I do understand what everyone's saying about the manor but come on people.
1. They are adding on to the Legend manor and maybe even making it a little more like TR 1's.
2. Maybe they're adding an outside.
3. The TR 1 manor wasn't GOD. You act like it was all sweet but all you could was: Climb over boxes, go in the gym, get in and get out of the pool. TR 3 mansion was very cool though.
And some of the people on this board are just the most hysterical people ever! If you "hate CD" so much and "are renting the game it looks so bad" why do you still follow the game? No one's making you stay. If you present your ideas like you aren't a little 5th grader maybe people will take you seriously. Whining doesn't help if you haven't noticed. :ton:
(I mean no offense to anyone!)
Please could you explain what was so un-architecturally sound about the classic TR1-3 mansion?
And also, what qualifications do you have to make such a statement? Are you a qualified architect or the like?
He's entitled to his opinion just like you are. Isn't that what CD haters have been saying all along. "Everyone has their own opinion." :rolleyes:
da tomb raider!
28-03-07, 20:32
Really, no offense, but I for one don't care about architectural stuff in Tomb Raider games. Is any Tomb Raider game realistic? Nope. So who cares about architectural stuff? I'm not saying I want completely warped levels with no form or anything, but seriously, what does architectural stuff matter in a Tomb Raider game?
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 20:33
Then they shouldn't keep telling us that this is Lara's first adventure, years before Legend, Zip & Alister, etc. ;)
They should just totally ignore Legend and any other TR games except TR1 for this one. It should really just be a one-off tribute.
I agree, but remember its Crystal Dynamics, they want to infect all the Tomb Raider games with their Legend storyline. Its starting to sound like a virus now.
fondantcookie
28-03-07, 20:35
Well first of all I went to college to be an architect for three years and have a great liking of architecture...so I feel I can make such a statement.
Now on the outside of the Mansion you saw this huge house with all these windows right? But when you go inside there is a huge foyer with the grand stairs that lead upstairs. You go to the right there is a trophy room, you go forward into what used to be the dance room turned gym and there is a pool room. And a kitchen. You go upstairs and you have a bedroom and bathroom, a sitting room and library and then the attic with the entry being about waist height. I don't know about you guys but this doesn't sound like a MANSION to me. Oh of course there is the basement too with a random little lounge with a huge aquarium. If you think about how the rooms are arranged inside and what the outside looks like.....you will see that it just doesnt make sense. I think for the original Mansion to REALLY work as a MANSION, there should have been many many more rooms and the gym should have been in a whole seperate area and not in the middle of the ballroom.
The TRL Manor is very large and grand and there are many doors and areas that you can see that implies that there is much more to the manor than those few roomes we got to visit. You can see how the house flows and connects to eachother.
Ahh thanks slick...makes more sense now :tmb:
Was tempted to do Arcitecture at collece myself...but instead am doing Molecular Biology... Woot !! Crazy stuff...
Cheers for the input... :tmb:
MoonSword
did you get to here any music?
if so what was it like? :)
We didn't hear composed music, just atmossphere sound. You could hear all environment noises (waterfall, wall crashes, ...) and a slight background music that outline the feeling of solitude (in Peru). It reminded me of TR1 and TR3.
And also the usual music when a danger appears.
I noticed it without being surprised, means it is well integrated (again, IMO).
We didn't hear composed music, just atmossphere sound. You could hear all environment noises (waterfall, wall crashes, ...) and a slight background music that outline the feeling of solitude (in Peru). It reminded me of TR1 and TR3.
And also the usual music when a danger appears.
I noticed it without being surprised, means it is well integrated (again, IMO).
:yah: :jmp:
We didn't hear composed music, just atmossphere sound. You could hear all environment noises (waterfall, wall crashes, ...) and a slight background music that outline the feeling of solitude (in Peru). It reminded me of TR1 and TR3.
And also the usual music when a danger appears.
I noticed it without being surprised, means it is well integrated (again, IMO).
ah ok
thanks for that :D
Some people here can be SOOO irritating:hea:
Stop complaining.What did the orginal mansion have anyways??!
:hea:
Some people here can be SOOO irritating:hea:
Stop complaining.What did the orginal mansion have anyways??!
:hea:
You're complaining yourself, dear. ;)
I don't think most people wanted the ORIGINAL mansion (with the crates and limited gameplay); the mansion in TRII/TRIII is generally referenced as the classic mansion, and that did have some fun things to do. :tmb:
Another thing I don't like is the T-Rex entrance. I don't care if it's great or crap, but in Tomb Raider 1, when you hear the music, the stomps, and then see the T-Rex roar at you before charging, I personally think it's awesome. And there aren't any cut-scenes of any type in that. If a cut-scene was there I doubt it'd be the same.
And then there's the lenght of the game. 30-40% longer than Legend? How long is that exactly? I can complete it 100% without a walkthrough in 4 days. Other might take longer ( :yik: ). 30-40% longer than Legend is still top short to me. :confused:
To be honest, I couldn't see where was the switch between the in game and the cut scene, as far as the T-Rex appearance is concerned. There were no load time.
I really admire you guys needing only 10 hours or so to complete TR:L. It took me 20+ hours (without the walkthrough).
don-cotton
28-03-07, 20:45
thank you MoonSword for this review-preview. and welcome to the forum.:wve:
reading through this thread makes me realise how immature people can be, saying they hate cd because of the mansion. god, some people really tend to be overly dramatic. the police may want to keep a close eye on some future school shooters here.
what about you all just wait till you actually get to play the game (and the mansion) and start judging afterwards? i mean, it's one thing to say you don't really like the idea of the legend mansion being reused, but to say you hate cd (hate!!!???!!!come on!!) because of that, is tuely over the top, don't you think. maybe some people got a little too absorbed in the tr universe and should take a break, turn off their pc and go outside meet some friends or sth.. some should really try that, it's fun actually. i mean, i just watched a video about bears in japan, who have been caged for 22 years (in a cage so small they can't even move, stand up or turn around in it) and got their belly cut open everyday to tap their gall. this is something to hate, isn't it.!? :(
pizzabob18
28-03-07, 20:47
Being a long time player of tomb raider, I am still looking forward to anniversary, and so far like just about everything about it...:)..HOWEVER...
I am disappointed about the manor. :( Mainly because of the fact that they can't go back and make the TR1 manor more modernized, and they are recycling the legend one.
What really made me mad though was the fact that they did it so new fans wouldn't be confused........wait.....what?.....So new fans wouldn't be...."confused"..... :confused: That makes it sound like these new fans are 5 years old. :rolleyes: No new fan would be confused if it said on the package "Go back in time to the classic Tomb Raider mansion".
All I have to say is that the "new" mansion better have EVERY room available, and I'm talking about, attic, basement, dinning rooms, treasure rooms, etc. I want them to make it so that we get the impression that she is an archaeologist who can actually explore every room in her own house rather than being locked out of her own dining room....And of course...they BETTER include the outside, there's no reason why they shouldn't...unless they are afraid that the "new" fans will catch a cold outside or skin their knees:vlol:
However, I'm moving on about the mansion. I'd prefer to look forward to what's good about the game (just about everything else) than sulk about the manor and rant on about how I hate CD (I don't at all). I guess only time will tell when May comes along... ;)
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 20:52
I know one thing everyone has forget, Winston and the freezer XD.
Being a long time player of tomb raider, I am still looking forward to anniversary, and so far like just about everything about it...:)..HOWEVER...
I am disappointed about the manor. :( Mainly because of the fact that they can't go back and make the TR1 manor more modernized, and they are recycling the legend one.
What really made me mad though was the fact that they did it so new fans wouldn't be confused........wait.....what?.....So new fans wouldn't be...."confused"..... :confused: That makes it sound like these new fans are 5 years old. :rolleyes: No new fan would be confused if it said on the package "Go back in time to the classic Tomb Raider mansion".
All I have to say is that the "new" mansion better have EVERY room available, and I'm talking about, attic, basement, dinning rooms, treasure rooms, etc. I want them to make it so that we get the impression that she is an archaeologist who can actually explore every room in her own house rather than being locked out of her own dining room....And of course...they BETTER include the outside, there's no reason why they shouldn't...unless they are afraid that the "new" fans will catch a cold outside or skin their knees:vlol:
However, I'm moving on about the mansion. I'd prefer to look forward to what's good about the game (just about everything else) than sulk about the manor and rant on about how I hate CD (I don't at all). I guess only time will tell when May comes along... ;)
I really think people should stop repeating this..........that was word of mouth, I'm almost positive that's not what they said but it has been interpreted as CD saying that. I won't believe that that IS what they said until I hear or read it straight from CD/EIDOS
thevman, they argued that the high length of TR1 was kind of artificial by the fact that you have to make hundreds of adjustment moves to be sure to make a good jump. And that you often failed and had to retry. That maybe true, but still it took me ages to complete the game.
Besides, promoting exploration with less fight can improve the game's length. It was fun trying to find the little cogs to make the full system work. I don't have fresh memories of TR1, but reminds me so.
This is the kind of mentality of CD that ticks me off. I liked lining up the jumps, having to be precise about them or lara died, it was part of the challenge! Again CD doesn't understand what TR is. :hea: The casual way we can just throw lara at ledges in legend was like she was made out of velcro! :rolleyes: Way too easy. There goes any difficulty in making your way around the levels... :cen:
Poll about which one we prefare: Legend Manoson, Old Manor or not mind.
So you want to wait even more months for the game to come out?
This is the kind of mentality of CD that ticks me off. I liked lining up the jumps, having to be precise about them or lara died, it was part of the challenge! Again CD doesn't understand what TR is. :hea: The casual way we can just throw lara at ledges in legend was like she was made out of velcro! :rolleyes: Way too easy. There goes any difficulty in making your way around the levels... :cen:
Though I admit it definetly is MUCH easier making jumps in Legend, there were many parts where I just threw Lara and she completely missed what she was going for, especially in Ghana......so even if it isn't like it used ot be there is still some thought that goes into the jumping so that you don't go to a crunching end.
Oh ffs crystal! :hea: :rolleyes:
CD must think new gamers are really thick. Which part of "Lara has several mansions" wouldnt they understand? Its been said once already. How dare they put the Legend mansion in AE! Thats disgusting. Bet it won't have an outside either. How much more narrow minded can they get? I'd wait several months extra to play this game if they would swap the mansions.
laracroft4eva
28-03-07, 21:06
It was going good until the Manor part! This is the one thing that i wanted the most for TR:A i dont care about solitude, raptors, mummies, i wanted the ORIGINAL mansion and what do we get an improved one of Legend because of NEW players, its friggin ANNIVERSARY and "for the old fans" ******* is it, its so they can make money from NEW fans and dont give a **** what old fans care about! ARGH! This is the only thing i dont like about Anniversary. CD buck your ideas up and do the ORIGINAL manor like promised, or they will be one hell of a back-lash but then again there is already!
Though I admit it definetly is MUCH easier making jumps in Legend, there were many parts where I just threw Lara and she completely missed what she was going for, especially in Ghana......so even if it isn't like it used ot be there is still some thought that goes into the jumping so that you don't go to a crunching end.
You MISSED jumps in ghana!? :eek: The only one I had a hard time with was that short cut jump! :p (jump on rocks and then thru waterfall before even opening waterfall, skips whole water wheel and turning on water for water wheel part)
This is the kind of mentality of CD that ticks me off. I liked lining up the jumps, having to be precise about them or lara died, it was part of the challenge! Again CD doesn't understand what TR is. :hea: The casual way we can just throw lara at ledges in legend was like she was made out of velcro! :rolleyes: Way too easy. There goes any difficulty in making your way around the levels... :cen:
I agree it was part of the challenge, but some may think we can progress to other difficulties. IMO, I'm not too unhappy to concentrate less onto the method and more onto the exploration/puzzle (if they follow of course, which seems to be the case).
I am wondering which original manor are people requesting. TR1, TR2 or TR3 as there were significant differences?
When folks say that CD is trying to make TR their game I am wondering who else's game folks think it is?
When folks say that CD does not understand what TR is all about I am wondering who defines just what TR is all about?
Eddie Haskell
28-03-07, 21:19
Just got back from my all day doctors visit where I felt like a test animal. I am exhausted.
But what a read this thread is. Some of you act like you're surprised at these revelations. I on the other hand am not the least bit surprised. As I have said repeatedly, they assume that all of the "die-hard" fans will buy it anyway. After all, it's Lara! So you are discounted when it comes to "satisfying", since as they see it Legend was a smashing success with all of it's "thrill ride" newness, and pleasing the old guard is no longer required.
Also, their strange fixation on erasing the vestiges of the "old Lara" is borderline lunacy. Half-hearted compliments, sideways insults and general disregard is all they have for the old games. It almost appears that they would be satisfied with chucking away the "old schoolers" for a whole new audience. The same way they chucked away the old game's creators. :(
This is the kind of mentality of CD that ticks me off. I liked lining up the jumps, having to be precise about them or lara died, it was part of the challenge! Again CD doesn't understand what TR is. :hea: The casual way we can just throw lara at ledges in legend was like she was made out of velcro! :rolleyes: Way too easy. There goes any difficulty in making your way around the levels... :cen:
We all understand that as you get older you have to move a little slower. Just take what ever time you need:)
I agree it was part of the challenge, but some may think we can progress to other difficulties. IMO, I'm not too unhappy to concentrate less onto the method and more onto the exploration/puzzle (if they follow of course, which seems to be the case).
Problem is there was no exploring in legend, just stay on their path to the other end of each level. :( I have a feeling CD's idea of what "exploring" is, will be MUCH different from core's version. Just one dimension of searching, ie: do a move or two and find the secret, don't want us to explore too far off the main path, we might get lost! :eek: Getting lost = bad according to CD... :hea:
You MISSED jumps in ghana!? :eek: The only one I had a hard time with was that short cut jump! :p (jump on rocks and then thru waterfall before even opening waterfall, skips whole water wheel and turning on water for water wheel part)
Yea, that part after the boulder chases you and you have to make your way to the other entrance. After jumping off the second "lift" thing and I turn around to run and jump onto the swing poles I usually run and jump a lil too early and just splat on the rocks below. In fact the other day it happened like 5times :o
We all understand that as you get older you have to move a little slower. Just take what ever time you need:)
Damn whippersnappers! http://www.storagebin.us/smilies/smilies/brick.gif
Thanks to Moonsword for the nice write-up. Even though I am becoming more an more disappointed in what I am hearing and seeing about the game, any and all new info is always appreciated! Thanks for taking the time.
Phil Croft
28-03-07, 21:25
Thanks For posting,it's good to now that the legend mansion is coming back but with somethings diferent,I loved Legend's mansion,I just wanted it was bigger,wich probably will be in anniversary.I loved the discription of T-rex entrance,it looks so cool to play it.I just want to put my hands on that game soon!!!!!I'm so excited!!!:jmp: :jmp:
Just got back from my all day doctors visit where I felt like a test animal. I am exhausted.
But what a read this thread is. Some of you act like you're surprised at these revelations. I on the other hand am not the least bit surprised. As I have said repeatedly, they assume that all of the "die-hard" fans will buy it anyway. After all, it's Lara! So you are discounted when it comes to "satisfying", since as they see it Legend was a smashing success with all of it's "thrill ride" newness, and pleasing the old guard is no longer required.
Also, their strange fixation on erasing the vestiges of the "old Lara" is borderline lunacy. Half-hearted compliments, sideways insults and general disregard is all they have for the old games. It almost appears that they would be satisfied with chucking away the "old schoolers" for a whole new audience. The same way they chucked away the old game's creators. :(
in short the total erasure of Core and anything TR related by Core :(
Moon-Safari
28-03-07, 21:34
I am wondering which original manor are people requesting. TR1, TR2 or TR3 as there were significant differences?
When folks say that CD is trying to make TR their game I am wondering who else's game folks think it is?
When folks say that CD does not understand what TR is all about I am wondering who defines just what TR is all about?
I wanted a best of house with the best parts of every home and added bonuses by CD. but they cant even do that right.
Eddie Haskell
28-03-07, 21:36
Problem is there was no exploring in legend, just stay on their path to the other end of each level. :( I have a feeling CD's idea of what "exploring" is, will be MUCH different from core's version. Just one dimension of searching, ie: do a move or two and find the secret, don't want us to explore too far off the main path, we might get lost! :eek: Getting lost = bad according to CD... :hea:
You know, although I can understand that it is possible, I never got "lost" in any Tomb Raider game. To this day, I can remember the correct routes in almost every one of the multitude of games that I have ever played. Even some of the most complicated mazes. But I think the real point is that they are trying to put a positive spin on the limited accessibility (of the areas) of their game, by knocking the old games with the "getting lost" comment.
Problem is there was no exploring in legend, just stay on their path to the other end of each level. :( I have a feeling CD's idea of what "exploring" is, will be MUCH different from core's version. Just one dimension of searching, ie: do a move or two and find the secret, don't want us to explore too far off the main path, we might get lost! :eek: Getting lost = bad according to CD... :hea:
True from what concerns TR:L. You could always easilly locate where you were. IMO, getting lost is a trademark of TR, so it can't be bad. From what I've seen, CD seems on the good direction: In peru, after a certain progression (looking for the missing cogs), I was lost and couldn't locate myself (true also that I was not the player myself and the player was rather fast). I assume that you had to explore a bit to find the proper way.
Thanks to Moonsword for the nice write-up. Even though I am becoming more an more disappointed in what I am hearing and seeing about the game, any and all new info is always appreciated! Thanks for taking the time.
You're welcome. My pleasure.
Only TR lover
28-03-07, 21:39
Yay.... sounds great! Thank you! :D :D
Thanks for the great read MoonSword and welcome to the forums :wve:
Okay, I'm slightly disappointed about the mansion news, but I'm very happy with how everything else is coming along - especially when viewing the new Egypt screenshots - so I'm not about to use the 'censored' smilie repeatedly with exclamations of "Crystal Dynamics Sucks!". I mean, come on, some members are all smiles and roses one day and then the next they turn into angry monsters with a taste for Crystal Dynamics blood!?
I will always have a soft spot for the original mansion but I also REALLY like the mansion in Legend, it just needed to be bigger. In fact, there were elements of Legend's manor that did remind me of the original. When you think about it, the swimming pool room in Legend could easily be an update of the same room from the original mansion, right? Perhaps they could use the stunning foyer from the Legend mansion but alter the layout to mirror that of Tomb Raider 1? They can't keep it exactly the same, as the original mansion was designed around the old grid system. What would they do with the room with all the boxes? They certainly can't keep it the same as it was specifically designed to train players to line up and perform jumps.
Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject.
I know I'm in a minority here, but whats so bad about the legend mansion? I found the legend mansion to be easily the best mansion tomb raider has ever seen. If TRA adds an outside then its almost the perfect mansion. The treasurehunt theme of the legend mansion for finding rewards was brilliant and I spent more time in legends mansion than I ever did in TR1-3s mansions.
Because TRL mansion had no outside area, no butler who could move never mind shoot at, no race track or corner bug or other intelligent challenges but other than that I agree with you.
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 21:47
Remember it did say it was the biggest manor/mansion ever, it could even be bigger than the TR3 mansion!
laracroft4eva
28-03-07, 21:48
Because TRL mansion had no outside area, no butler who could move never mind shoot at, no race track or corner bug or other intelligent challenges but other than that I agree with you. Go play the games. You clearly did not play the earlier games.
1st didnt have butler, or race track, no outside, although i wanted the original manor im perfectly happy with Legend i suppose, atleast its bigger.. :(
Because TRL mansion had no outside area, no butler who could move never mind shoot at, no race track or corner bug or other intelligent challenges but other than that I agree with you. Go play the games. You clearly did not play the earlier games.
What were these challenges you faced in the original mansion? Because I don't remember anything challenging at all. In fact Legend's Manor was the first challenging house with the riddle puzzles and what not. And When people are talking about this great mighty mansion all they mean is the TR3 mansion, since the TR1 & TR2 mansions were VERY boring....but continue on :)
Remember it did say it was the biggest manor/mansion ever, it could even be bigger than the TR3 mansion!
What was so big about the TR3 mansion? The only thing that was big about the TR3 mansion was the outside part with the 4wheeler.
Also, their strange fixation on erasing the vestiges of the "old Lara" is borderline lunacy. Half-hearted compliments, sideways insults and general disregard is all they have for the old games. It almost appears that they would be satisfied with chucking away the "old schoolers" for a whole new audience. The same way they chucked away the old game's creators. :(
You said it. I've got so tired of reading Crystal's snidey digs at classic TR and AoD that I now treat everything they say with cynicism.
I'm very disappointed to hear that they're shoehorning the Legend mansion into what is supposed to be a tribute to CLASSIC Tomb Raider. I dearly hope that they won't insert the misguided movie-inspired parental angst as well, but I'll probably be disappointed over that as well.
What were these challenges you faced in the original mansion? Because I don't remember anything challenging at all. In fact Legend's Manor was the first challenging house with the riddle puzzles and what not. And When people are talking about this great mighty mansion all they mean is the TR3 mansion, since the TR1 & TR2 mansions were VERY boring....but continue on :)
that doesn't deserve a proper reply
laracroft4eva
28-03-07, 21:51
What was so big about the TR3 mansion? The only thing that was big about the TR3 mansion was the outside part with the 4wheeler.
It contained alot more than the 1st and 2nd making it big :D
Because TRL mansion had no outside area, no butler who could move never mind shoot at, no race track or corner bug or other intelligent challenges but other than that I agree with you.
Which is all TRA really has to do. Add an outside with different things there like the assault course. Also what intelligent challenges were there in the classic mansions? There were actually puzzles in legend mansion, which I liked quite a bit.
laracroft4eva
28-03-07, 21:52
Am i the only person that really enjoyed the movies?
that doesn't deserve a proper reply
Because his opinion differs from yours?
Am i the only person that really enjoyed the movies?
I also did haha, the Garage should be featured in the manor in TRA :jmp:
laracroft4eva
28-03-07, 21:54
I also did haha, the Garage should be featured in the manor in TRA :jmp:
We should have the Air Dancing or what ever it was with the grapple :P
If you haven't had an intelligent challenge in an earlier TR mansion then you ain't played the games
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 21:55
Horse riding! (Part of the assault course!)
Because his opinion differs from yours?
no, something else
that doesn't deserve a proper reply
So you'll just offer a lazy, arrogant reply instead?
:off:
DON'T turn this into a fight.
If you haven't had an intelligent challenge in an earlier TR mansion then you ain't played the games
Well tell me what these challenges were.....since I've played all 3 mansions many times in my lifetime.
Yes LAraCroft4Eva! That would be so cool!
If you haven't had an intelligent challenge in an earlier TR mansion then you ain't played the games
Name one. I cant think of one, except maybe the small puzzle to get the racetrack key, but the puzzles in legends mansion were much more complex and better imo. Legend had several puzzles, TR3 had one.
If you haven't had an intelligent challenge in an earlier TR mansion then you ain't played the games
I can't really say the timed assault course was an "intelligent challenge". Other than that TR2 had one secret room to open (which I really liked actually), TR3 had 2 (gone is the room I liked from TR2). Both were pretty simple time challenges.
Edit: Oh wait, perhaps you consider locking Winston up in the fridge an "intelligent challenge"?
So you'll just offer a lazy, arrogant reply instead?
oh ok, the TRL mansion is the best then
for what it's worth,i dislike the Legend house
the TR games are becoming too aligned with the movies...hence the legend manor, purely based on the awful movies
so i for one would have preferred the TR version but totally updated with
new rooms,more detail and furniture etc etc
this game really is a re-imagining....(Imagine Core's games never existed) :mad:
So you'll just offer a lazy, arrogant reply instead?
Don't worry about him.....
:off:
DON'T turn this into a fight.
Yea Riv's right, we all need to get along!
Oh and I correct myself, I did face ONE challenging moment in the TR Mansion of past......The Home Sweet Home LEvel of TR2 :D
I can't really say the timed assault course was an "intelligent challenge". Other than that TR2 had one secret room to open (which I really liked actually), TR3 had 2 (gone is the room I liked from TR2). Both were pretty simple time challenges.
and the TRL mansion was complicated of course, if you got stuck in it then OMG
Hyper_Crazy
28-03-07, 22:02
Imagine that in the Legend manor, I want to kill them with screwdrivers!
and the TRL mansion was complicated of course, if you got stuck in it then OMG
and I said that where?
Home sweet Home level rocked :tmb:
Anyone remember Toby Gard saying the mansion will have 'objectives' and a bigger purpose than before?
And that it's the Biggest one yet?
Sure, I'd have liked an updated classion mansion much better(it was what most of us were expecting) with riddles and more rooms, but as I don't play much in the mansion it doesn't bother me too much.
It would be cool if they could incorporate some sort of timed challenge again, like the switch in the TRIII mansion's hedge maze. The reward wasn't that great in the end but I was so determined to get to that door in time that the challenge made up for it!
P.S. Sorry Riv, I'm back on topic ;)
It's also about fun guys, the earlier mansions had novel things to do (including locking Winston in a fridge, getting a key to a race track (did you?) and shooting an old fart...TRL mansion was boring, nothing to go back to once finished.
Ok... the revelation about the mansion is a small disappointment for me... but i think the biggest problem is again with the game's length, every site/preview is talking about the game being 30~40% bigger than Legend, even if it was 100% bigger, its still a short game! I am completely lost about TRA longevity / replay value (even with that "director's commentary") :/
I agree with this:
Seems Crystal are slacking and just can't produce a decent lengthy game...
They claimed Legend would take around 10-12 hours first play through...but it took me no more than six...(on HARD i might add)
So by claiming the AE will be 30/40% bigger....they actually mean 15-20% bigger..which thus conveys to around 8-9 hours gameplay....
:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
Pathetic if you ask me... What happened to the days when a good old Tomb Raider would take you about a month to complete....even with consistent perseverence?
And don't go telling mke people these days want "short sharp thrill rides"...Thats complete :cen: BS Mr Livingston. Especially when games like Final Fantasy XII and Oblivion are amongst some of the most popular games to date....
:)
....more let down...
fondantcookie
28-03-07, 22:14
It's also about fun guys, the earlier mansions had novel things to do (including locking Winston in a fridge, getting a key to a race track (did you?) and shooting an old fart...TRL mansion was boring, nothing to go back to once finished.
Here here...
You collect al the secrets...and then what?
Absolutely nothing...
At least with TR2s mansion you could 'hone your skills' on the obstacle course.... Or ride the Quad Bike in number 3.... ot forgetting the mischief to be had with el Butler...
Legends mansion was static...and bland.... nothing more of 'show-home' if you will...
I only home they can inprove on it in the AE if thats indeed the mansion (:() they will be including...
agree Citan, but less and less do
Eddie Haskell
28-03-07, 22:16
Home sweet Home level rocked :tmb:
Anyone remember Toby Gard saying the mansion will have 'objectives' and a bigger purpose than before?
And that it's the Biggest one yet?
Sure, I'd have liked an updated classion mansion much better(it was what most of us were expecting) with riddles and more rooms, but as I don't play much in the mansion it doesn't bother me too much.
Same here, don't use the mansion much at all. But it does bother me because of the significance of the omission. In my opinion, they could not use the old mansion. Not because of any technical, aesthetic or "the new fans won't understand" reasons. But because this would mean that they would be using a CORE constituent component directly. Not their creation. they want fans to identify with their creation. Going back would be a foolish decision since some may prefer the older one for whatever reason. So it's best to chuck it in the dustbin with all the rest of the antiquated parts.
Well, sounds like the T-rex intro is ruined. I'm ambivalent about the mansion thing (depends what they do with the Legend one). Only 30-40% bigger sounds kind of bad on the surface (that wouldn't even reach 15 hours considering Legend took me about 7-8 hours), but it's kind of hard to tell.
Everything else sounds good however.
Same here, don't use the mansion much at all. But it does bother me because of the significance of the omission. In my opinion, they could not use the old mansion. Not because of any technical, aesthetic or "the new fans won't understand" reasons. But because this would mean that they would be using a CORE constituent component directly. Not their creation. they want fans to identify with their creation. Going back would be a foolish decision since some may prefer the older one for whatever reason. So it's best to chuck it in the dustbin with all the rest of the antiquated parts.
Well I would agree with them, as an artist the last thing I'd want to do is use somebody else's ideas. Well you can use the idea but you have to make it your own, so I have no problem with CD taking over TR and making it their own...I'd do the same, but if you're not an "artist" it's a little harder to understand just how important making it your own is.
And after you figure out all the puzzles in the TRL manor you do the same thing you'd do in the classic Mansion, run around the house, play in the gym and swim in the pool, truely the same ideas. And if you think about it, LEgend was CD's first game and they had all of that for us to do in the Manor, Core's first game had nothing, in fact if you weren't lucky when getting out of the pool it would send you back to the main screen.
Same here, don't use the mansion much at all. But it does bother me because of the significance of the omission. In my opinion, they could not use the old mansion. Not because of any technical, aesthetic or "the new fans won't understand" reasons. But because this would mean that they would be using a CORE constituent component directly. Not their creation. they want fans to identify with their creation. Going back would be a foolish decision since some may prefer the older one for whatever reason. So it's best to chuck it in the dustbin with all the rest of the antiquated parts.
Agree. And moreover, I assume starting from TR:L's mansion was much faster than redesigning the classic one with today's standards.
Hello,
The game is announced to be 30 or 40% longer than TR:L
Some ennemies catch Lara's arm, and you have to get free
Ennemies' IA seems really good.
ennemies rush towards you and almost never stop attacking you.
Sound effects: An atmosphere of solitude is well created and good old sounds are back
We've been showed a turning inventory,
1) One more foot step when she climbs up (for those who already saw).
2) The wall-run can be chaged. You can stop the balance, and turn into a climb up/down.
3
I would say the above things are the main positives, hopefully we'll get these things in the released game :)
Core's first game had nothing, in fact if you weren't lucky when getting out of the pool it would send you back to the main screen.
Jeesh
Jeesh
Lol, I was just saying there was nothing in th first game to do really.....am I lying?
P.S. Is there a reason you no like me? :(
Lol, I was just saying there was nothing in th first game to do really.....am I lying?
P.S. Is there a reason you no like me? :(
I don't know you so can't say I don't like you, or otherwise, it seems we just don't see eye to eye about TR1...:)
Shes doesn't age, thats the answer XD.
Yeah, and I'm glad to know that...
Have you ever stop to think of a 60 years old Lara? Disgusting...
knightgames
28-03-07, 22:41
Well, sounds like the T-rex intro is ruined. I'm ambivalent about the mansion thing (depends what they do with the Legend one). Only 30-40% bigger sounds kind of bad on the surface (that wouldn't even reach 15 hours considering Legend took me about 7-8 hours), but it's kind of hard to tell.
Everything else sounds good however.
Well to change the subject a little. DAMN! MMAN, I've been watching your TR1 speed runs on you tube. (I've got them favorited) You are the man! It's fun to see how others do so well with this game, and I notice different things I don't have the opportunity sometimes to see.
You totally floored me in MIDAS PALACE when you jumped across to the aqua duct and followed it then LONG jumped to the cliff to get along the rim in the pool room cutting out that whole bottom portion of that area of MIDAS' PALACE. (I hope you know where I mean.)
Great job....and FUN!
Eddie Haskell
28-03-07, 22:44
Well, sounds like the T-rex intro is ruined. I'm ambivalent about the mansion thing (depends what they do with the Legend one). Only 30-40% bigger sounds kind of bad on the surface (that wouldn't even reach 15 hours considering Legend took me about 7-8 hours), but it's kind of hard to tell.
Everything else sounds good however.
Personally I wouldn't mind it if there were no FMV's or cut-scenes of any kind. I like some of them mind you, but I think it would be better to make your own so-to-speak. Pick the time and your own unique avenue to egress into the dangerous moment. Try and sneak by the T-Rex if you like. That would be fun for me.
Btw, the intro of the T-Rex sounds exactly like the leaked animation video. So they kept it after all.
Sounds all good to me. :)
Some "old fans" here are acting extremely selfish.
If you want to play the TR1 mansion (without the outside, race track, etc) then go play it! It's surely sitting there in your collection. Go run around aimlessly in your precious mansion.
But don't expect Crystal Dynamics to update that nonsense piece of bland architecture to suit you umpteen whinging, uncompromising, swearing fans. You give the rest of us a bad name.
Yes, Core would have probably kept much of it the same with a few new areas, but why on Earth would you pay money to play the same game again?
Crystal are true artists and they gave us a lavish, well-designed and puzzling new mansion from scratch in Legend. How can you criticise them as being lazy for expanding it (into the "biggest Mansion yet" apparently), when all Core did was make small updates each new game?
Really. If you were designing the next-gen Tomb Raider games, and you just whipped up a 1:1.1 remake of the original Mansion, you would be fired. By any production company. And you would also please about 15 fans and make millions go "bleh this is crap".
Please. For once. Get realistic. Put yourself in the shoes of Crystal Dynamics. They are not remaking Tomb Raider 1.
IT IS ALREADY MADE.
They are re-imagining it, as a gift to you. Otherwise just ring up Eidos and ask them to send you another copy of the original Tomb Raider 1.
Stop being silly.
Some "old fans" here are acting extremely selfish.
If you want to play the TR1 mansion (without the outside, race track, etc) then go play it! It's surely sitting there in your collection. Go run around aimlessly in your precious mansion.
But don't expect Crystal Dynamics to update that nonsense piece of bland architecture to suit you umpteen whinging, uncompromising, swearing fans. You give the rest of us a bad name.
Yes, Core would have probably kept much of it the same with a few new areas, but why on Earth would you pay money to play the same game again?
Crystal are true artists and they gave us a lavish, well-designed and puzzling new mansion from scratch in Legend. How can you criticise them as being lazy for expanding it (into the "biggest Mansion yet" apparently), when all Core did was make small updates each new game?
Really. If you were designing the next-gen Tomb Raider games, and you just whipped up a 1:1.1 remake of the original Mansion, you would be fired. By any production company. And you would also please about 15 fans and make millions go "bleh this is crap".
Please. For once. Get realistic. Put yourself in the shoes of Crystal Dynamics. They are not remaking Tomb Raider 1.
IT IS ALREADY MADE.
They are re-imagining it, as a gift to you. Otherwise just ring up Eidos and ask them to send you another copy of the original Tomb Raider 1.
Stop being silly.
OMG...actual sensable people right here on the TRF.
Some "old fans" here are acting extremely selfish.
If you want to play the TR1 mansion (without the outside, race track, etc) then go play it! It's surely sitting there in your collection.
No. Because we want to see it with the new graphics engine and loads of new rooms to explore.
You obviously have no idea. I suggest you go play the original TR games yourself.
No. Because we want to see it with the new graphics engine and loads of new rooms to explore.
You obviously have no idea. I suggest you go play the original TR games yourself.
Graphics isnt everything. I mean, maybe you should just remember the original house as it was. It was classic. take this example, You cant better the Mona Lisa by giving her eyebrows. Its pointless and could easily do more harm than good. You cant mess with the classics, however you can reimagin it, if CD want to expand the Legend House, let them, its their game, they designed it, they're the ones who are working god knows how many hours a day to please fans, and all they get is ridicule.
Btw, the intro of the T-Rex sounds exactly like the leaked animation video. So they kept it after all.
I'm glad to hear it! The animation on that leaked reel was excellent. What an entrance!
No. Because we want to see it with the new graphics engine and loads of new rooms to explore.
I don't think some of you realise that the original mansion would simply NOT TRANSLATE WELL into next-gen. It lives on the old-gen in all of its blocky squareness.
But Crystal have kept the same ideas (like the foyer with the staircase, swimming pool, gym, bedroom, dark attic-like tunnels etc etc) but designed them so much better.
You obviously have no idea. I suggest you go play the original TR games yourself.
That's the problem. You are nostalgic over the original Tomb Raider game.
I, too, actually loved the original mansions, at the time. But I'm older now. And I can, as an "old fan", appreciate Crystal Dynamics for wanting to change direction a bit, as any new artistic game designing team would. The basics have been transferred to next-gen, but nothing else should be (or can be).
And they have done a wonderful job. The Legend mansion was beautiful! And the TR:A mansion is supposed to be even huger -- can't wait for it! Why am I able to get over my selfish nostalgia and you guys aren't? I feel sorry for you.
I agree they should've remade the Classic mansion, but I think one reason they didn't was because it was based off of Core Design's building, and Crystal Dynamics hate Core Design.
Also they said in some interviews to expand the Legend mansion with an outside, so surely we may get an outside atleast..
I agree they should've remade the Classic mansion, but I think one reason they didn't was because it was based off of Core Design's building, and Crystal Dynamics hate Core Design.
Also they said in some interviews to expand the Legend mansion with an outside, so surely we may get an outside atleast..
Where has it ever been said that CD hate Core?
I agree they should've remade the Classic mansion...
They aren't remaking anything. Why should they remake the mansion? (Why should you even deserve this game?)
...but I think one reason they didn't was because it was based off of Core Design's building, and Crystal Dynamics hate Core Design.
That is a false accusation. Crystal don't hate Core Design, but they certainly aren't Core Design. Why would they bother wasting their LIVES redoing something that can't be improved? The mansions were perfect for old-gen. Now they've tried to come up with a new mansion perfect for next-gen.
Otherwise there's no point in anyone making more Tomb Raider games. If these selfish old "fans" got their way, they would be playing the same thing every year.
I can imagine it, now... in 20 years time, on the PlayStation 6. All these other games are extraordinarily awesome. And there are these decrepid forty-to-sixty-year-old people sitting in their lounge rooms playing the original TR1 mansion with even better graphics. "Look, Maude, here are some new rooms! God bless Core Design for reforming and giving us the same mansion with slightly better graphics (not too much to distract from the feel of the original) and a few more rooms! It's so great! I could run around here for hours! Oh look, the same timed puzzle from the original! Wow! Where's my liver pills, dear?"
They aren't remaking anything. Why should they remake the mansion? (Why should you even deserve this game?)
That is a false accusation. Crystal don't hate Core Design, but they certainly aren't Core Design. Why would they bother wasting their LIVES redoing something that can't be improved? The mansions were perfect for old-gen. Now they've tried to come up with a new mansion perfect for next-gen.
Otherwise there's no point in anyone making more Tomb Raider games. If these selfish old "fans" got their way, they would be playing the same thing every year.
I can imagine it, now... in 20 years time, on the PlayStation 6. All these other games are extraordinarily awesome. And there are these decrepid forty-to-sixty-year-old people sitting in their lounge rooms playing the original TR1 mansion with even better graphics. "Look, Maude, here are some new rooms! God bless Core Design for reforming and giving us the same mansion with slightly better graphics (not too much to distract from the feel of the original) and a few more rooms! It's so great! I could run around here for hours! Oh look, the same timed puzzle from the original! Wow! Where's my liver pills, dear?"
HAHA, thats funny.
I agree they should've remade the Classic mansion, but I think one reason they didn't was because it was based off of Core Design's building, and Crystal Dynamics hate Core Design.
Also they said in some interviews to expand the Legend mansion with an outside, so surely we may get an outside atleast..
Oh, honestly now! Statements like this are a perfect example of taking legitimate criticism and debate and turning into nothing but an unwarranted ****ing match.
Just because Crystal Dynamics wants to put their own spin on the Tomb Raider formula does not in anyway mean that they hate Core Design. They've been employed by Eidos, in fact, to reinvent said formula. Don't like it? That's totally fine. But don't go around making unsound accusations just because you're unhappy - That'll do absolutely no good for anyone.
And they have done a wonderful job. The Legend mansion was beautiful! And the TR:A mansion is supposed to be even huger -- can't wait for it! Why am I able to get over my selfish nostalgia and you guys aren't? I feel sorry for you.
So as an "old fan" (forget the mansion for a moment) You yourself enjoyed Legend and what Crystal have transformed our incredible Tomb Raider into? A non-challenging game with no atmosphere and countless poles? And by the looks of it, AE is going to turn out the same with all its pole swinging. As an "old fan" you don't mind that we're losing TR and everything that made it special just so a games company can please todays stereotypical gaming audience?!
So as an "old fan" (forget the mansion for a moment) You yourself enjoyed Legend and what Crystal have transformed our incredible Tomb Raider into? A non-challenging game with no atmosphere and countless poles? And by the looks of it, AE is going to turn out the same with all its pole swinging. As an "old fan" you don't mind that we're losing TR and everything that made it special just so a games company can please todays stereotypical gaming audience?!
Right, im an old fan, been since the start, i was 10 when the original game came out and i LOVE Legend.
With a name like Rose Tyler...i imagine you like Doctor Who is that correct? You can use the same arguement with that, some people ADORE the the classic and hate the new series, and feel that the new series is totally goin against everything that made DW special, and Some people love the new series and hate the old series, yet some people like both. What would you say to the people who hate the new series of Doctor Who? People have accepted that things cant stay the same forever. And TR is no different. CD is reinventing the franchise, and well if people dont like it...Stop playing the new ones and replay the old ones.
Welcome to the forums and thanks for posting :)
First off, I'm real upset about a lot of things now of the game. I never expected the Manor, I really wanted the Mansion from the original. This is no remake. This is more like 'Legend with some of the first' game. 30 to 40% longer? Tomb Raider 1 is like 348756087612937982198% longer than Legend. This is all so sudden. Them saying they talked to fans? I'm 100% sure that they talked to people that their first game they played was Legend. They should have spoken more to the old and experienced fans. And if it was the old fans, then they didn't listen whatsoever. I really wonder how Core's game would have been :( I'm not feeling for the Anniversary as much as I use to :(
So as an "old fan" (forget the mansion for a moment) You yourself enjoyed Legend and what Crystal have transformed our incredible Tomb Raider into? A non-challenging game with no atmosphere and countless poles? And by the looks of it, AE is going to turn out the same with all its pole swinging. As an "old fan" you don't mind that we're losing TR and everything that made it special just so a games company can please todays stereotypical gaming audience?!
Hey, hang on. I wasn't defending Legend gameplay in any way in this thread. I think EVERYONE has admitted that there were some problems in Crystal's very first attempt, but now that they have got themselves sorted out, yes, they definitely have no excuse now.
We can't judge TR:A until it comes out. I have high hopes that it will be spectacular. If it doesn't improve on Legend in the ways that were made clear in the media reports, then I will fully support everyone whinging and complaining about Crystal.
But that is OFF TOPIC. We are talking about the Mansion. You might say I am both an "old fan" and a "new fan" and I'm glad I am.
I like the original mansion/s (and actual gameplay) the way they were, but I also like the modern version of them (save for some problems and length issues in Legend gameplay).
But after Core's trouble with AOD, I see no reason to criticise Crystal for some troubles with Legend and praise Core like they are GOD.
Thanks for the report MoonSword, and welcome to the forum :wve:
l never really expected to get the classic mansion, so l am not at all surprised about that revelation. No one really wanted the Mansion from Tomb Raider 1, you all wanted something better, and from all the suggestions l read in past threads it seemed some wanted to spend the entire game in the Manor, it is just an extra level, not an entire game.
Core remodelled the mansion several times, mainly to make it more interesting, their final effort in Chronicles was truly a work of art in the FMV's, unfortunately we never got to explore it though. Why would CD want to do just a graphical update, or yet another remodelling job on the old mansion? The hedge maze and obstacle course in Tomb Raider 2 and the race to get to the treasure room door before it closed, the AV track and trophy room in Tomb Raider 3 l loved. But no l never expected CD to remake them, which would they choose, it would be pointless to remake the Tomb Raider 1 version that had no secrets no outside and no exploration. Core did a great job, and l never really expected CD to remake something as well defined and limited to reinterpretation as Lara's home was
Yes l did always think the design of the Mansion was a bit strange, but accepted that the outside did not seem to match the inside. When Legend came along with the Manor from the movies l was thrilled, new areas to explore, and it was set out somewhat more realistically. l was disappointed about the annoying gates that would not open, and no garden, but still there was plenty to do and look at. l would have preferred CD to have the home level based in present time so that Lara could have moved out and been in the classic mansion when the Scion adventure took place, but l suppose that would be to confusing.
Certainly it will not be the first time a Tomb Raider game has added something that contradicted an earlier version, l survived the earlier changes, l will at least enjoy this one more than playing as young Lara.
So rather than remake the old mansion they transfer some of the things we liked about the old one to the new manor, sounds acceptable to me, and certainly helps with continuity in the new Tomb Raider revival. Throw an obstacle course, garden and an interesting hunt for the treasure/trophy room in and l will be happy, unlike some around here yes l am easy to please :p
knightgames
29-03-07, 03:43
EDIT: nevermind.
Eddie Haskell
29-03-07, 03:52
They aren't remaking anything. Why should they remake the mansion? (Why should you even deserve this game?)
That is a false accusation. Crystal don't hate Core Design, but they certainly aren't Core Design. Why would they bother wasting their LIVES redoing something that can't be improved? The mansions were perfect for old-gen. Now they've tried to come up with a new mansion perfect for next-gen.
Otherwise there's no point in anyone making more Tomb Raider games. If these selfish old "fans" got their way, they would be playing the same thing every year.
I can imagine it, now... in 20 years time, on the PlayStation 6. All these other games are extraordinarily awesome. And there are these decrepid forty-to-sixty-year-old people sitting in their lounge rooms playing the original TR1 mansion with even better graphics. "Look, Maude, here are some new rooms! God bless Core Design for reforming and giving us the same mansion with slightly better graphics (not too much to distract from the feel of the original) and a few more rooms! It's so great! I could run around here for hours! Oh look, the same timed puzzle from the original! Wow! Where's my liver pills, dear?"
Your snide characterizations are unnecessary and unbecoming of someone of your obvious intelligence. What you are saying about the original mansion is a canard. Also you are projecting an oversimplification and even outright incorrect notion of what some others want.
First, nobody (except perhaps a select few) would expect anyone to bring back the old graphics. I think you are mistaking the graphics with the design. It is perfectly possible to make something with the same design (layout, architecture, color, etc) that was previously presented in limited graphics using the most up-to-date graphics engine. Although one could easily recognize that the buildings were comparable, one could see the extra detail and in the latest version. Why do you say the old mansion cannot be improved? It is a silly statement. With the ability of the engine to show more detail, all of the "blanks" so-to-speak could be filled in and the furnishings could be fleshed out as one would expect from such a detailed engine. Did you think that anyone would accept a stark, 1996 graphical version of the mansion for an Anniversary game in 2007? Of course not.
I certainly don't want to play "the same thing" all the time. New stories, new angles, and new tombs are mandatory. But the game has a format that was developed over time. It also had a character who had her own story. Wholesale changes can only alienate a number of players on these and other levels. If you cannot comprehend that, than you are very lacking in understanding. I think that you do, but you just enjoy starting fires. It is as I said unbecoming of you. :)
Shark_Blade
29-03-07, 04:00
Im happy with the report. I did think that they would remake the classic Mansion, but Im fine with them using the Legend Mansion. This may give them the chance to do whaty they wanted to do with the Legend Mansion, finish it off, and then maybe in TR8, it will blow up or she will move and have a new (more classic) home.
:rolleyes: You can dream on Pablo. CD is too ignorant and stupid for that.
The point is, Eddie, we're lucky we're getting any mansion at all.
All I'm saying is that, in all honesty, the Tomb Raider series doesn't need to continue. It's had its day, it went through six incarnations with about 150 levels in total. Lara traipsed around almost every corner of the Earth. We've had plenty of fun along the way and can still replay these nostalgic artworks whenever we want until we die.
But why make TR7? TR8? WHY churn out a TR1-like Mansion with updated graphics? Yes, everyone on this site would appreciate it. But very few other people would.
And do you know how artistically stifling it would be to remake someone else's artwork? Why should any game designer take on the Tomb Raider franchise and feel obliged to copy someone else's mansion layout?
It's like a modern day composer rewriting Beethoven's 9th Symphony to please Beethoven fans. For starters, they would never be pleased with anything but the original. Secondly, making small changes to it makes no sense and is a waste of time. You might as well make big changes and reinvent it. And thirdly, no composer would bother making small changes anyway. They would want to show off their artistic prowess and reinvent it.
You're lucky we have Crystal Dynamics willing to reinvent it at all.
Most composers/artists would much prefer doing their own thing. There's a good chance that most other game designers would have turned the Tomb Raider franchise in a completely different direction than Crystal did.
I just don't think some people realise the good thing that we have going here.
Shark_Blade
29-03-07, 04:15
A cannon ball ??? Where you jump and tuck your knees up, and bring your head into your chest !?!?! ...to make a MASSIVE splash :)
...seriosuly...what on EARTH is such a move necessary for ?!?!?! And why the heck would Lara Croft be dive-bombing into stagnant water in the middle of an ancient tomb...
Crystal have a crazy outlook on life.... Must be getting their data input with regards to what the 'fans' want from four-year olds... :P
I completely agree. CD are just idiots. They done their research for Legend by interview kindergarten kiddies and retard people. For tra, they decided they wanted to be "creative" and add yet another useless move for Lara.
Screw you CD, :cen: you and all your :cen: :cen: :cen: bull:cen: ideas!!!
I completely agree. CD are just idiots. They done their research for Legend by interview kindergarten kiddies and retard people. For tra, they decided they wanted to be "creative" and add yet another useless move for Lara.
Screw you CD, :cen: you and all your :cen: :cen: :cen: bull:cen: ideas!!!
Do we really need people making these kinds of "contributions" to our forums?
Firstly, the move isn't officially confirmed yet. We're basing it on the description of someone who allegedly attended a demonstration in France.
Secondly, nobody said it was "necessary". The swan dive that Core came up with isn't necessary. Core's elegant ledge pickup (holding the walk button) is not necessary. The mansion is not necessary.
Thirdly, stop criticising and swearing at Crystal when you haven't played the game yet. Who knows, maybe in one of the levels Lara NEEDS to make a big splash in one of the pools, in order to splash water up into some water-triggered mechanisms a few metres up from the ground around the wall.
That sounds pretty cool to me, A) Because it sounds exactly like something an old civilisation would have designed; and B) There is no reason why Lara shouldn't be able to bomb dive. She is human, right? Humans can bomb dive?
Eddie Haskell
29-03-07, 04:31
The point is, Eddie, we're lucky we're getting any mansion at all.
All I'm saying is that, in all honesty, the Tomb Raider series doesn't need to continue. It's had its day, it went through six incarnations with about 150 levels in total. Lara traipsed around almost every corner of the Earth. We've had plenty of fun along the way and can still replay these nostalgic artworks whenever we want until we die.
But why make TR7? TR8? WHY churn out a TR1-like Mansion with updated graphics? Yes, everyone on this site would appreciate it. But very few other people would.
And do you know how artistically stifling it would be to remake someone else's artwork? Why should any game designer take on the Tomb Raider franchise and feel obliged to copy someone else's mansion layout?
It's like a modern day composer rewriting Beethoven's 9th Symphony to please Beethoven fans. For starters, they would never be pleased with anything but the original. Secondly, making small changes to it makes no sense and is a waste of time. You might as well make big changes and reinvent it. And thirdly, no composer would bother making small changes anyway. They would want to show off their artistic prowess and reinvent it.
You're lucky we have Crystal Dynamics willing to reinvent it at all.
Most composers/artists would much prefer doing their own thing. There's a good chance that most other game designers would have turned the Tomb Raider franchise in a completely different direction than Crystal did.
I just don't think some people realise the good thing that we have going here.
Lucky? Not me. I don't feel lucky at all. What you are saying reminds me of something my mother used to say to me when I was a small boy, when I told her that I didn't like the dinner she had so diligently prepared. "You're lucky you have this, next time I'll give you bread and water" she would say. That remark didn't make me like it any better. Qualifying the new game/developers as you have as "a good thing", and projecting it upon others as the only truth is wrong.
And I would welcome another developers take on the game, see if they can make it more in tune with the originals. I believe that CD is failing on many levels. Not that they aren't working hard, or trying to create something good.
You have your opinion. You obviously like the changes, or else why argue so fervently for them. Creative license is fine, but sometimes people don't like it. Even great composers made crap on occasion. New creations sometimes suck, to be blunt.
What you are saying reminds me of something my mother used to say to me when I was a small boy
Funny that.
Funny that.
Oh snap; owned. Seriously, that was amazing Bowie I completely agree with you.
Psychopompador
29-03-07, 05:12
I completely agree. CD are just idiots. They done their research for Legend by interview kindergarten kiddies and retard people. For tra, they decided they wanted to be "creative" and add yet another useless move for Lara.
Screw you CD, :cen: you and all your :cen: :cen: :cen: bull:cen: ideas!!!
please refrain from making ignorant comments like "retard people." do you have any idea how offensive that is? do you have any idea how unintelligent it makes you sound?
think about it.
Lara.Jolie7
29-03-07, 05:12
Croft manor: It will be a derived version of TR:L's, because according to Eidos, new players that started with TR:L wouldn't understand. But don't worry: many references to the TR1 mansion will be made (don't know which ones). The manor will be bigger as TR:L's but Eidos woudn't say whether we can go outside or not.
Oh very nice, Lets think in the childs now?
Tomb Raider for "new players"
:cen: the rest? Lets think in future?
Lets try make more ppl play?
Cause mking this they will lose the True fans....
I Hate when they say for new player!!!!
We like the classic!
and they ruined everytthing sayng that... The game looks amazing.... But this things not make a old Tr Manor cause the New players no will understand? WTf? Say : "Dunno why Manor change? PLAY THE OTHER TR GAMES :cen: "
This new players maybe Have internet, so let they search for Tr And LC.....
Wasting time to this again!
Im few years i belive lara will have blond hair, wear pink and will convert Bad ppl to be good ¬¬
But the other thing that really hit me hard is the bit about being 30-40% bigger than legend... :eek: Really? So instead of 6 hours of gameplay we'll get 9??? :( That is not incredibly bigger. :mad: I was expecting 200-250% bigger than legend! Legend was truly one quarter the length of any other TR game! :hea: So even if TRA was 200% larger, that would only be half the length of a normal TR game... http://www.storagebin.us/smilies/smilies/sad2.gif
They said it was going to be 15 hours of gameplay :wve:
Oh very nice, Lets think in the childs now?
Tomb Raider for "new players"
:cen: the rest? Lets think in future?
Lets try make more ppl play?
Cause mking this they will lose the True fans....
I Hate when they say for new player!!!!
We like the classic!
and they ruined everytthing sayng that... The game looks amazing.... But this things not make a old Tr Manor cause the New players no will understand? WTf? Say : "Dunno why Manor change? PLAY THE OTHER TR GAMES :cen: "
This new players maybe Have internet, so let they search for Tr And LC.....
Wasting time to this again!
Im few years i belive lara will have blond hair, wear pink and will convert Bad ppl to be good ¬¬
Don't be so mean...
And I'm pretty sure that CD won't turn Lara into Paris Hilton.
Oh very nice, Lets think in the childs now?
Tomb Raider for "new players"
:cen: the rest? Lets think in future?
Lets try make more ppl play?
Cause mking this they will lose the True fans....
I Hate when they say for new player!!!!
We like the classic!
Oh, yes, how selfish of Crystal and Eidos to try and open up Tomb Raider to the masses. How dare they try and make millions of people enjoy Lara's archaeological exploration?
Why did they have to go into everyone's homes and burn the original games so that the old players could never play them again!!
How dare they try and earn money off a game that doesn't cost any money or effort to make!
Praise Core! Praise Core! :rolleyes:
Lara.Jolie7
29-03-07, 05:33
Oh, yes, how selfish of Crystal and Eidos to try and open up Tomb Raider to the masses. How dare they try and make millions of people enjoy Lara's archaeological exploration?
Why did they have to go into everyone's homes and burn the original games so that the old players could never play them again!!
How dare they try and earn money off a game that doesn't cost any money or effort to make!
Praise Core! Praise Core! :rolleyes:
I just hate the ideia they tryng change all Lara History! The Movie the comic the games!
And they jsut think in the new the new, Lara have a lottt of fans ... If they Like her and the game will dont make something like the classics?
"Why did they have to go into everyone's homes and burn the original games so that the old players could never play them again!!" What u mean with this?
taking ou blood and easy lvls , boss and hints? Why? To more ppl play?
See Mortalk Kombat.... Much blood Violence... U see they doing something like that to "new players"?
Lara Croft - Tomb Raider have a name to honor.... Dont Need Change....
I just hate the ideia they tryng change all Lara History! The Movie the comic the games!
And they jsut think in the new the new, Lara have a lottt of fans ... If they Like her and the game will dont make something like the classics?
"Why did they have to go into everyone's homes and burn the original games so that the old players could never play them again!!" What u mean with this?
I was obviously being sarcastic. I meant that you can still play the original games whenever you like. Nobody is taking that away from you. If you don't want to play the new games because Lara's history and Mansion are being "ret-conned" (changed, causing conflicting continuity), then that's fine. But it happens all the time, even within the same design team, but especially when a new design team takes over.
It's not really a big deal.
Oh, honestly now! Statements like this are a perfect example of taking legitimate criticism and debate and turning into nothing but an unwarranted ****ing match.
Just because Crystal Dynamics wants to put their own spin on the Tomb Raider formula does not in anyway mean that they hate Core Design. They've been employed by Eidos, in fact, to reinvent said formula. Don't like it? That's totally fine. But don't go around making unsound accusations just because you're unhappy - That'll do absolutely no good for anyone.
I didn't say anything bad on Crystal Dynamic's part, it's just the way the game is looking they want to take things and put it as their own which is fine, but I think the Classic Manor should have been back. Doesn't matter though, the game looks gorgeous. :wve:
Lara.Jolie7
29-03-07, 05:45
I miss the challenge , do u miss this too? How much time u play Tr games?
Legend go >>> Jump go >>> Jump killl>> Push the shine stone, use the graplle to push the shine thing, kill the 2 enemys bla bla bla... Tr 1 Find a key, 2 ways to go, need find a lot of thing go backward Foward... Legend id sjut go foward nothing more....
challenge ? Where?
Now TR:a is tryng to give us what we miss , and i say again... I dont wanna play TR:a looking like a Legend editor... and i see in some trailers and videos the game still AMAZIng... But Manor etc.... This make me realy bad... And DONT NEED CHANGE A GAME HISTORY TO MAKE THEY A CLASSIC AND TO GET NEW FANS THIS THINGS....
Legend go >>> Jump go >>> Jump killl>> Push the shine stone, use the graplle to push the shine thing, kill the 2 enemys bla bla bla...
AoD walk in the parisian streets>>keep walking in that parisian streets>>still walking in that parisian streets>> wow! Now we are walking in the parisian streets again!>>turn off the PS2, tired of walking...
Maybe that's why AoD is so long. :rolleyes:
Lara.Jolie7
29-03-07, 06:03
AoD walk in the parisian streets>>keep walking in that parisian streets>>still walking in that parisian streets>> wow! Now we are walking in the parisian streets again!>>turn off the PS2, tired of walking...
Maybe that's why AoD is so long. :rolleyes:
lol?
Shark_Blade
29-03-07, 06:27
Sir Croft have you even finished Aod? They have tombs levels after that too you know. And it doesn't really take me long to finish Parisian backstreet. Just go to Serpent Rouge, deliver the goods to cafe metro, go to graveyard, enter bouchard's hideout send passport and then go to sewer, enter Louvre then into Archaelogical dig.
It doesn't entirely scrape the tomb out of the tomb raider. The tombs still have deadly traps and death unlike legend;)
Lara.Jolie7
29-03-07, 06:32
Sir Croft have you even finished Aod? They have tombs levels after that too you know. And it doesn't really take me long to finish Parisian backstreet. Just go to Serpent Rouge, deliver the goods to cafe metro, go to graveyard, enter bouchard's hideout send passport and then go to sewer, enter Louvre then into Archaelogical dig.
It doesn't entirely scrape the tomb out of the tomb raider. The tombs still have deadly traps and death unlike legend;)
True ^^
The challenge challenge, come out come out wherever u are =/
Sir Croft have you even finished Aod? They have tombs levels after that too you know. And it doesn't really take me long to finish Parisian backstreet. Just go to Serpent Rouge, deliver the goods to cafe metro, go to graveyard, enter bouchard's hideout send passport and then go to sewer, enter Louvre then into Archaelogical dig.
And that was 11 levels?
You make it sound like it could have passed as one big Legend level, like England or whatever.
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