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Tthe Spirit
07-04-07, 18:11
I have opened this Thread to see what are the opinions of some around here, and i do respect the opinion of every one, but many of us are always victims of:
1- our environment.
2- our family.
3- education.
but many things depend on our own rationality, respect to others and understanding.

That's why it is so painful to know and see that others just like to be sarcastic, and they really know noting of truth.

Denmark recently published new sarcastic pictures about the Prophet Mohammed...
It's not the pics that bothered me (well they are like a stab in the knife), but what agitated me more was Denmark's insist on publishing things that arent true...

well, they did show the prophet having ***** with his wives...
well there are many things they should have known before doing that.
First of All, Aisha, is his last wife and there is a tale that says she was 6-8 years when he married her. This is total gibberish and fake.
There is no exact fact or anything clear that verifies her age.
Islam bans a man to touch a woman (b4 marriage).... how can then it allow such a marriage...
Second, as time passes, human physically transforms.
Age isnt in parallel with time. As time passes, human changes. that's why in the past, a 1o year old woman is like todays woman of 25 years old, so this another point which many people dont regard very well.
Noah lived 1000 years, but the number of years doesnt refer to the time we r living in this Era.
Science proved that long ago the day was made up of only 7 hours (about 7)...
Imagine that

Moreover, the prophet might have had many wives but it was an order sent down from God to him.
the Prophet was a loving man, but at the begining he didnt want to marry all those woman. But since he used to carry out all God's orders he obeyed the orders. It is well known that his favorite remained his first wife (who died before his second marriage) and he was just so fair with every1 of them and never maltreated anyone of them.

2- Even before The Angel Gibrael showed up to The Prophet, Mohammed was known in his Era that he has never said a lie. Everybody used to trust him.

3- Stories about him:

A jewish neighbor used to live opposite to his residence and that man always used to throw hisgarbage in front of the Prophet's house.
Then, for some reason, this Jewish man didnt throw his garbage for some time.
After three days, he heard the door knocking and there was The Prophet coming to check over him.
"What do you want?" the Jewish asked.
"I thought you were sick or something. You have been abscent for three days."
The Jewish was astonished and he said, "I really reckon that you are a gifted man."

Treasures
07-04-07, 18:13
Wow. That's all I can say.

Kamrusepas
07-04-07, 18:14
So... are you asking about our opinion on Prophet Mohammed?

Tthe Spirit
07-04-07, 18:31
So... are you asking about our opinion on Prophet Mohammed?

Actually i am asking about your opinion towards Denmark attitude...
The same relies on to you too.
If you want to post an opinion about the Prophet, you must at least know Him b4 you write your opinion, otherwise you will have written something that isnt exact... you then have just said something you lack experience about.

Geck-o-Lizard
07-04-07, 18:33
Science proved that long ago the day was made up of only 7 hours (about 7)...

...sorry? When did science prove this?

you then have just said something you lack experience about.

Indeed!

dark_angel_7
07-04-07, 18:38
I'm also a Muslim. I was outraged by the Denmark pictures of the Prophet. Its just stupid, arrogant and racist to put something like that up in a newspaper, knowing how wrong and untrue it is. I've said this before and I'll say it again -Muslims are being portrayed around the world (by countries/newspapers/the media) as evil, suicidal, terroists who wil kill anyone for anything. This is NOT TRUE! Just because 1 maybe 2 people have done stupid things doesn't mean the rest of us are the same. It's about time people started realising that and people around the world should stop writing/posting/saying/believing all this NONSENSE! :mad:

Geck-o-Lizard
07-04-07, 18:41
How come when we make fun of Christians, the only protests happen in Texas, but when we make fun of Muslims, the whole world goes up in arms about it? Does nobody have a sense of humour any more, or at least the ability to turn the other cheek when something like this is published?

Mad Tony
07-04-07, 18:47
How come when we make fun of Christians, the only protests happen in Texas, but when we make fun of Muslims, the whole world goes up in arms about it? Does nobody have a sense of humour any more, or at least the ability to turn the other cheek when something like this is published?Agreed. And why are you mad at the country Denmark? If you saw some innocent Danish man who had absolutely nothing to do with the cartoons, would you hate him? << Not at you, Grace.

Tthe Spirit
07-04-07, 18:48
...sorry? When did science prove this?

I have a scientific disk about planets and how they were formed and so on. i can't upload it. it is too big and unfortunately i couldnt find a weblink.
But it is the truth.
Actually, Earth moves around the sun and this rotation isnt the same each year.
every year the Earth's motion around the sun gets slower.
In the past, the Earth rotated around the sun in a very fast motion that day and night were divided among few hours only.
Space is also widening each year. It is moving as well

dark_angel_7
07-04-07, 18:49
Agreed. And why are you mad at the country Denmark? If you saw some innocent Danish man who had absolutely nothing to do with the cartoons, would you hate him? << Not at you, Grace.

No I wouldn't :). What I meant by Denmark is the people IN Denmark who published that picture. Should've made it clear, sorry.

Mad Tony
07-04-07, 18:50
No I wouldn't :). What I meant by Denmark is the people IN Denmark who published that picture. Should've made it clear, sorry.No problem. Simple misunderstanding. I think it's wrong when people hate an entire nation for the actions of the minority.

Tthe Spirit
07-04-07, 18:51
Agreed. And why are you mad at the country Denmark? If you saw some innocent Danish man who had absolutely nothing to do with the cartoons, would you hate him? << Not at you, Grace.

I said i am not against danish people themselves.
This thread isnt about if we hate or love.
It is about if some1 have the right to publish things that arent true.
Do you agree with that?
Dont you think that this causes mischief and disorganizes a society?

Geck-o-Lizard
07-04-07, 18:51
I have a scientific disk about planets and how they were formed and so on. i can't upload it. it is too big and unfortunately i couldnt find a weblink.
But it is the truth.

Not in Noah's time, it didn't. Even 10,000 years ago, days were still about 24 hours long. You need to go back millions, if not billions of years to get to the time when the earth was spinning fast enough for days to be just a few hours long.

dark_angel_7
07-04-07, 18:53
How come when we make fun of Christians, the only protests happen in Texas, but when we make fun of Muslims, the whole world goes up in arms about it? Does nobody have a sense of humour any more, or at least the ability to turn the other cheek when something like this is published?

It's not about 'sense of humour'. Those picture arent someones sense of humour. Its about racism. If you were religious and cared about your religion would you like it if I said something so racist or drew picture that were against your religion? I think we both know the answer to that one ;). Also how do you know the only protests happen in Texas? I'm sure a lot of other people who are Christians would be affended if someone was making fun of what they believe in.

Geck-o-Lizard
07-04-07, 19:00
So people should avoid exercising their freedom of speech if there's a possibility that what they say could be considered offensive by someone else?

Kamrusepas
07-04-07, 19:02
you then have just said something you lack experience about.

Wouldn't be the first time someone's done that.

I remember the Denmark crisis. I have no real opinion about the whole thing, I thought it was stupid but then again I think all religion is stupid.

Mad Tony
07-04-07, 19:05
I remember the Denmark crisis. I have no real opinion about the whole thing, I thought it was stupid but then again I think all religion is stupid.
That's the problem. People are taking these opinions the wrong way. I'm a Christian, but I'm not offended by your statement. It's just your opinion, doesn't affect me.

And I really hope people don't take your comment the wrong way.

Geck-o-Lizard
07-04-07, 19:07
I think all religion is stupid.

Same here. Religion's great in principle, but in reality, all I ever see in the end is a struggle between people who believe different things and distrust/dislike/hate anyone who believes differently. And yet all religions teach peace and tolerance as the most desirable qualities in people.

Here's a rather good satirical article...
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28151

Tthe Spirit
07-04-07, 19:08
So people should avoid exercising their freedom of speech if there's a possibility that what they say could be considered offensive by someone else?

What Denmark is doing isnt Freedom of Speech. It is an intended and deliberate act.
Freedom of speech isnt in this sense.
so i'll go cursing your father. every1 has got tongues. if this is the case then what a democratoc humanity it is.
Freedom of speech is to criticize things, but not throw out words that seek death and hurt of others.
if Denmark wants to prove to the world that by doing this they are democratic, well respect is one of the laws of democracy and Denmark has finally proven that it is disrepectful
Freedom of speech: they can just say we dont like Islam, but we do respect those who follow it.

Mr.Burns
07-04-07, 19:09
It's not about 'sense of humour'. Those picture arent someones sense of humour. Its about racism. If you were religious and cared about your religion would you like it if I said something so racist or drew picture that were against your religion? I think we both know the answer to that one ;). Also how do you know the only protests happen in Texas? I'm sure a lot of other people who are Christians would be affended if someone was making fun of what they believe in.

I'm afraid that won't hold up too well. You see, there are those out there that follow the phrase, "turn the other cheek." I care about my faith but if someone wishes to criticize it, then that's their choice. To assume that everyone who is religious would react in a similar manner as yourself is foolish.

dark_angel_7
07-04-07, 19:10
So people should avoid exercising their freedom of speech if there's a possibility that what they say could be considered offensive by someone else?

Yes, actually when it comes to racism.

Mad Tony
07-04-07, 19:12
Yes, actually.Well then if that's the case we'd hardly be allowed to say anything. For example, on a smaller scale, if somebody said they thought a particular movie was bad, then another person might take offense to this.

dark_angel_7
07-04-07, 19:13
I'm afraid that won't hold up too well. You see, there are those out there that follow the phrase, "turn the other cheek." I care about my faith but if someone wishes to criticize it, then that's their choice. To assume that everyone who is religious would react in a similar manner as yourself is foolish.

Actually, I'm not assuming that so don't assume that I am. Sometime for some people its hard to "turn the other cheek" when these things happen everywher all the time and are causing problems for a lot of people. Theres always a point for everyone when they cant just "turn the other cheek" but instead they have to make a stand and voice their opinions on the matter.

dark_angel_7
07-04-07, 19:15
Well then if that's the case we'd hardly be allowed to say anything. For example, on a smaller scale, if somebody said they thought a particular movie was bad, then another person might take offense to this.

When, I say 'Yes, actually', I meant it particularly just for racism. Edited it now :).

Mr.Burns
07-04-07, 19:16
Yes, actually.

Personally I'm sick of this political correctness garbage. Listen, you're going to have to learn that there are other people out there with different opinions and some of them may be offensive. If you can't learn to be civil and try to ignore those comments than you won't get far in life. I've had my fair share of antisemitic comments and in each case I brushed it off. Why? because they're just words. That's it. Words can't hurt you, at least they shouldn't.

EDIT:

A:Than perhaps you should have clarified your last statement.

B: There's nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe in but denying those around you the right to voice their opinion merely because you may find it offensive is hypocritical.

Kamrusepas
07-04-07, 19:16
That's the problem. People are taking these opinions the wrong way. I'm a Christian, but I'm not offended by your statement. It's just your opinion, doesn't affect me.

And I really hope people don't take your comment the wrong way.

I'm glad your not offended. That was not my intention. I'm glad if someone find safety and hope in religion, but to me, the whole thing is just horribly wrong.

dark_angel_7
07-04-07, 19:19
Personally I'm sick of this political correctness garbage. Listen, you're going to have to learn that there are other people out there with different opinions and some of them may be offensive. If you can't learn to be civil and try to ignore those comments than you won't get far in life. I've had my fair share of antisemitic comments and in each case I brushed it off. Why? because they're just words. That's it. Words can't hurt you, at least they shouldn't.

I know people have their opinions, whether their offensive or not, we all do. And I am being civil. I know words can't hurt me and they're not its the ACTIONS. As they say - actions speak louder then words.

'denying those around you the right to voice their opinion merely because you may find it offensive is hypocritical.'

I'm not denying anyone anything. I'm just saying people shouldn't do/say racist things, especially when they know its racist but go ahead and do it anyway.

Geck-o-Lizard
07-04-07, 19:26
There's a difference between racism and religion-ism, though. Race is something you can't choose. Religion is, and it's a subject that you should've considered long enough for silly comics in a newspaper not to upset you.

I don't get offended when people try to tell me that the world was created in 7 days and I'm an idiot for believing in evolution, because I see the evidence that supports the theory of evolution, and I thoroughly believe it. If your beliefs aren't strong enough to stand up to immature jokes, are they really true beliefs?

Neteru
07-04-07, 19:27
I'm not denying anyone anything. I'm just saying people shouldn't do/say racist things, especially when they know its racist but go ahead and do it anyway.Basically what you're saying is that there is a fine line between freedom of speech and offense.

With freedom comes responsibility. Just because one may have a freedom to say or to do, doesn't make it right.

dark_angel_7
07-04-07, 19:31
There's a difference between racism and religion-ism, though. Race is something you can't choose. Religion is, and it's a subject that you should've considered long enough for silly comics in a newspaper not to upset you.

I don't get offended when people try to tell me that the world was created in 7 days and I'm an idiot for believing in evolution, because I see the evidence that supports the theory of evolution, and I thoroughly believe it. If your beliefs aren't strong enough to stand up to immature jokes, are they really true beliefs?

Firstly, I don't thinks theres even a word called religion-ism. Secondly, beliefs can ve and are TRUE. Just because I'm standing up, sticking up for my religion and myself and stating my opinion doesn't mean my beliefs are a load of ****. Yes, they maybe immature jokes but I still can say what I feel about them. Is it going to hurt anyone if I do?

dark_angel_7
07-04-07, 19:32
Basically what you're saying is that there is a fine line between freedom of speech and offense.

With freedom comes responsibility. Just because one may have a freedom to say or to do, doesn't make it right.

Finally!!!! Someone understands!!!

Ward Dragon
07-04-07, 19:40
I'm a little surprised that the newspaper in Denmark published the cartoons because I'd think they'd expect the reaction they got. Having said that, people who didn't like the cartoons have every right to say so, but NO right to threaten violence against the people who were responsible for the cartoons.

dark_angel_7
07-04-07, 19:44
I'm a little surprised that the newspaper in Denmark published the cartoons because I'd think they'd expect the reaction they got. Having said that, people who didn't like the cartoons have every right to say so, but NO right to threaten violence against the people who were responsible for the cartoons.

Thankyou, another person has understood what this is all about. And hopefully NO ONE will threaten violence against the people who were responsible, even though what they did is wrong and racist. I'm certainly not going to. I wouldn't take things that far. I mean its one thing sticking up for your religion and yourself and stating your opinions but its a whole different thing if your going to start killing people over every incident that happens. :yik:

Greenkey2
07-04-07, 19:46
Neteru's hit the nail on the head.


By all means free speech should be the right of every individual, but it also the responsibility of the individual not to use this as an excuse to make pointless and/or insensitive attacks on the thoughts, beliefs or ideals of others.

Respect your rights, but respect those of others too.

Neteru
07-04-07, 19:55
It is rather interesting for me this discussion because of the other side of the coin. It comes to those who espouse the tenets of their religion, with a righteous air and seeming disregard for the offense of their beliefs for others.

I know that for myself, I do not, on the whole, espouse my believes because I am intimately aware that some would find them offensive. That is to say, like any religious person, to me my beliefs are perfectly acceptable and ok. But I know others wouldn't see it the same.

Besides which, it is not my personal cause to go on a crusade and proselytise about what is.

tampi
07-04-07, 19:57
But it is that if you try to respect the feelings of all… then you can neither kill you, nor to live nor to be nor not to be!

All these things every time seem more absurd to me.
If your was deaf, dumb and blind, you would care anything of all this.
It would bother to you that somebody physically did damage to you perhaps.
Another disease exists in which the nervous stimuli do not arrive at the brain, therefore you do not feel pain in the skin.
If you had been born in Namibia, your preoccupations would be completely different.
All this is very personal points of view.
You cannot force to that everybody thinks like you nor that so at least shares your opinions. That is egoistic.
The freedom .........
The conscience is what matters.
All the writing, the saying, the investigated thing, the discovered thing, farce! , nonsenses! , which today is, tomorrow is not.
What is here tomorrow is there.
Everything will be burned, nothing will be.
My daughter does drawn pothooks that some culture could be blasphemy .....
The line, the pothook, the writing, everything is drops of a rain that today falls here and tomorrow there.
Not you make suffering with them.
Look: uiqhrefuiehorufihoeuifhoviufhevuifuivhd iehf iheiu heufih iih uiehfieuhf iheiuiu i
??????? What is that? :confused:

You don't give importance to which it does not have it.

(Pardon, I have returned strong this evening, eh?) :D

Jacob x5
07-04-07, 20:00
It is rather interesting for me this discussion because of the other side of the coin. It comes to those who espouse the tenets of their religion, with a righteous air and seeming disregard for the offense of their beliefs for others.

I know that for myself, I do not, on the whole, espouse my believes because I am intimately aware that some would find them offensive. That is to say, like any religious person, to me my beliefs are perfectly acceptable and ok. But I know others wouldn't see it the same.

Besides which, it is not my personal cause to go on a crusade and proselytise about what is.


Very well said. :tmb: I agree with you totally.

I'm guessing you're not a Jehovah's Witness. :ton:

Ward Dragon
07-04-07, 20:01
It is rather interesting for me this discussion because of the other side of the coin. It comes to those who espouse the tenets of their religion, with a righteous air and seeming disregard for the offense of their beliefs for others.

I know that for myself, I do not, on the whole, espouse my believes because I am intimately aware that some would find them offensive. That is to say, like any religious person, to me my beliefs are perfectly acceptable and ok. But I know others wouldn't see it the same.

Besides which, it is not my personal cause to go on a crusade and proselytise about what is.

I wish everyone else was similarly respectful of other people :tmb:

Neteru
07-04-07, 20:07
I'm guessing you're not a Jehovah's Witness. :ton::vlol:

jackles
07-04-07, 20:09
Very well said. :tmb: I agree with you totally.

I'm guessing you're not a Jehovah's Witness. :ton:


You dont want to know what I'm guessing.......

tampi
07-04-07, 20:23
jackles! :D I am in the air hoping that you say something! :p

Little-Lara
08-04-07, 02:27
This cartoon by the newspaper in Denmark knew exactly what they were doing. They knew they'd be offensive to millions Muslims or not, but they did it anyway to show the rest of the world that they can make an idiotic mark in history. Don't u really think that this whole thing have been thought through; they are not children! They got exactly what they wanted, and this is to enrage the innocent Muslims around the world. (Remember the antisemitic pamphlets from WWII? They were created only to enrage.)

I've seen this happen before. I truly feel sorry about the Islamic cartoon and the antisemitic example by Mr. Burns. IMO religion was created for peace and regulations on our daily lives and social, political and health benefits; and I believe this more and more when I read about religion. It totally angers me when I see people accusing/using religions to kill.

As for the topic religion for the problems in Middle-East, It is only about LAND. People from different religions are living together all over the world. How come this "religious war" only happens in the Middle-East then?! This is only for getting more LAND.

Religion is being, and always have been used as a propaganda to promote own agendas.

Cochrane
08-04-07, 07:24
I don't know anything about the new danish cartoons, only the ones last year that caused people to burn embassies etc.

Basically, I think that there is a very fine balance between freedom of speech and being offensive, and that line is crossed at a different place for everyone. Jokes you see in Germany about Christianity would likely get very different results if made about Islam in Iran, or about Christianity in Texas.

However, I think that the danish newspaper in question was aware of that, and that they were trying to get into the grey area where many muslims would find it offensive, but non-muslims would say that it is allowed under freedom of speech. They didn't even get any reactions from muslim organistations in denmark before they explicitly asked them.

The reaction after that, however, was completely out of bounds. Violence is the wrong answer to that issue. Of course, I have the feeling that this violence was, in part, promoted by officials. After all, from where did all those Denmark flags to burn appear so fast?

Archetype
08-04-07, 09:28
The cartoon itself was quite provocativ, but i think alot of people did over react.. these things seem to happen quite frequently when it comes to people drawing images of jesus, i remeber last year that slayer released their latest album 'christ illusion' the original cover had jesus mutilated. There was'nt a huge outcry about that although the Album was withdrawn until a new cover was produced.