View Full Version : Verify your Reasons Please!
Tthe Spirit
08-04-07, 08:22
So this is a very interesting thread (hope so) and it may help a lot know truth with evidence.
Lot of people are in a worry.
Why?
What difference do you see from the previous classics (except AOD).
I can see that many of us grumble about the swinging poles...
Actually they dont make so much big difference.
Lara used to jump across very huge gaps... now her jumps are smaller so swinging bars have been added.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q242/TheSpiritual/screen111.jpg
yes old Lara could have reached it from 1 jump. now she swings on the bars... that's no big deal.
About Lara's motion:
who said there is no walk button. In Legend there was a walk and a stealth button.
http://news.softpedia.com/images/reviews/large/tomb_raider_031-large.jpg
http://pspupdates.qj.net/uploads/articles_module/71043/lara%20croft_qjpreviewth.jpg
the walk button was necessary in old series because of the way the game was designed. They cant now design a game according to blocks!
the way lara runs by is exactly like the first 5 games. And now she's more athletic, which is great.
Athletic moves of Lara used to be only in cutscenes... Now we can do them...
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q242/TheSpiritual/screen032.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q242/TheSpiritual/scree.jpg
Shoting style is still the same... two pistols.... jumping left and right... everything's the same...
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q242/TheSpiritual/screen002.jpg
http://ps2media.gamespy.com/ps2/image/article/752/752321/lara-croft-tomb-raider-anniversary-20061222084501321-000.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q242/TheSpiritual/screen033.jpg
I am very optimistic about this game, even the grapple looks fun...
TRA is very much similar to TR1 IMO.
There are many new things, but it'll just have the same feeling.
1. Resize your pictures for heaven's sake. Mods say this almost every day
2. People are complaining about swingy poles, because in Legend there was like 25? Too much for a short game if you ask me. Almost every level's design was this: Jump, swingy, grab. Jump, swingy, grapple. etc.
3. The combat is nothing like the original. From what I've seen, it's a slightly improved version of Legend's combat system, where Lara twisted and shot at nonsense things, like the furthest enemy.
So yeah, these things aren't similar to originals. But still I hope other things will remind me TR1.
Tomb Explorer
08-04-07, 08:32
I feel exactly the same here as you Tthe Spirit I can't understand those who complain about her moves.About the weapons they probably complain how she holds her weapons but think about it who would run through some caves with his guns half in the air.It always looked kinda funny in the old games but it was ok.:D
It gets more realistic every game
I'm really looking forward to that game.:jmp:
I agree that Legend was very Similar to thje Old games in terms of capturing Lara's athletic Prowess and exotic lost Tombs. However I do have to admit that unlike the older games Legends outing was pretty brief and also pretty linear (dont get me wrong I absolutley Love Legend).
TRA has that TR1 feeling (so far) of exploration, discovery, Isolation and Danger.
1. Resize your pictures for heaven's sake. Mods say this almost every day
2. People are complaining about swingy poles, because in Legend there was like 25? Too much for a short game if you ask me. Almost every level's design was this: Jump, swingy, grab. Jump, swingy, grapple. etc.
3. The combat is nothing like the original. From what I've seen, it's a slightly improved version of Legend's combat system, where Lara twisted and shot at nonsense things, like the furthest enemy.
So yeah, these things aren't similar to originals. But still I hope other things will remind me TR1.
2) Well, in the classics it was: run, jump, pull up, jump, pull up, roll, jump, pull up. I don't see your point...it's basically the same formula, just with different abilities.
3) You can toggle who you're aiming at in Legend. Classic Lara 'twisted and shot at nonsense things' also. Again, I don't see your point...
laralauraxxx
08-04-07, 10:02
Cough cough there was no walk and stealth button in legend on pc was there ???? hang on lemme look at my manual
>
Nope none. But overall i AM happy with what cd have done with this game so far so i'm not complaining apart from the grapple hooks ...
Yes, but many people prefer the gaps to be bigger because it provides a much better challenge than those dumb poles that are numerous in amount throughout the game.
I hate the swing poles :mad: It was a great feeling when you came across one in TR5 and there were about 5 in the whole game
there were about 5 in the whole game
Exactly. CD have to remember to use these things in moderation.
Tthe Spirit
08-04-07, 10:45
I hate the swing poles :mad: It was a great feeling when you came across one in TR5 and there were about 5 in the whole game
You are right in this point.
That made TR5 so unique (i like TR5 so much)...
but here they are used to compensate Lara's short jumps, that's all.
3) You can toggle who you're aiming at in Legend. Classic Lara 'twisted and shot at nonsense things' also. Again, I don't see your point...
Here are few actions you can do in TR...try doing them in TR1-5 and in Legend and see for yourself what's easier:
1. Run at your enemy shooting him, jump over the enemy, turn mid air and keep shooting him while you do so.
2. While shooting your enemy, try running around him and shooting him in the same time.
3. Try over run your enemies and shoot them in the back.
dragoness_crysta
08-04-07, 10:56
Actually if you noticed lara in the previous game was as "human" as in the newest games. Of course her jumps were surreal...:D now they try to make her more "reachable"..that's why they swinging poles are there for..though I don't like them either...
I prefer the old Lara that could jump high and far.:tea:
bloodstormaoa
08-04-07, 11:10
I prefer the old Lara that could jump high and far.:tea:
She can jump higher and further in TRAE tho so maybe there will be less swing poles. We've been told that the environments are huge and so far we've only seen screens from the same areas. Hopefully the swing poles wont be overused this time:)
2. People are complaining about swingy poles, because in Legend there was like 25? Too much for a short game if you ask me. Almost every level's design was this: Jump, swingy, grab. Jump, swingy, grapple. etc.
Now lets count how many rectangles and squares made up Tomb Raider 1. ;)
The thing with the swingpoles is not that there are so many of them. It's that they don't make much sense in the environment at times.
The set should not be designed for her movements, but the other way around. That's should be the whole point of having more polygons, not being restricted with making worlds that are like game boards.
It's not a big deal for me, in any case. Everything is looking great, I admire everyone working in this project, especially because they take criticism so well and improved on Lara quite lot since Legend and I'm very optimistic about the game.
Gimme, gimme! :D
Ada the Mental
08-04-07, 11:33
The thing with the swingpoles is not that there are so many of them. It's that they don't make much sense in the environment at times.
Exactly!Not only they're too many but they're so blatantly conveniently places they almost distract you from the immersion oin the game.
They could at least make the blend with environments a bit,not just long poles,sticking out of walls for no reason.
The set should not be designed for her movements, but the other way around.
This is the fundamental problem and shows that Crystal Dynamics do not understand what we loved about Lara and the earlier games. They have taken gameplay from other popular games and given it to Lara without thinking about what she used to be able to do and why we liked it. Sure, Lara is athletic and strong, but she's not a damn gymnast.
Now lets count how many rectangles and squares made up Tomb Raider 1. ;)
And let's count how many ancient cultures put swingy poles in random places ;)
And let's count how many ancient cultures put swingy poles in random places ;)
Yes, this has been my complaint all along. TRA's internal logic is flawed, purely because of a gameplay mechanic that already exists in the engine. I think we can reasonably argue the contrivances in the earlier games mechanics work well in the context of their scenarios. But having hooks and poles all over the place is incongruous and not what TR is about.
I think everything in TRA look very promising. The only thing I would like to add is a "dash" button.
the swinging poles really arent as bad as this thread is making them out to be. Go eat an easter egg and chill out for a bit.
dragoness_crysta
08-04-07, 12:39
She can jump higher and further in TRAE tho so maybe there will be less swing poles. We've been told that the environments are huge and so far we've only seen screens from the same areas. Hopefully the swing poles wont be overused this time:)
Is it further than TR1 the original???
I don't think so...in the first game Lara was already jumping too far for a human...
it is nice to leave a little bit of human powers in her...that's the way to show how an explorer can survive...lol...;)
i dont know what many people have against the grapple. I mean, if I was an explorer a grapple/rope would be the first thing i would carry with me! What if i find a wall too high to climb? And again they say the grapple points are too conveniently placed. Well, did you prefer the conveniently placed hanging ropes, the tightropes, the monkeyswing ceilings? At least "grapple points" are architectural elements of the enviroments!
bloodstormaoa
08-04-07, 12:49
Is it further than TR1 the original???
I don't think so...in the first game Lara was already jumping too far for a human...
it is nice to leave a little bit of human powers in her...that's the way to show how an explorer can survive...lol...;)
Sorry i meant higher and farther than in Legend:o
It kind of seems within the realm of human power in TRAE-not too high and not too far;)
dragoness_crysta
08-04-07, 13:02
Sorry i meant higher and farther than in Legend:o
It kind of seems within the realm of human power in TRAE-not too high and not too far;)
I definitely feel ya...;) ;) ;)
one reason for me is because there are still those marks showing where Lara needs the grapple. I think that is amazingly stupid. It makes the game way too easy, I wouldn't mind the grapple without the points being shown.
I agree the game looks better than legend, but I don't like the mouse movable camera either, it was trickier to see things when the camera would shift on it's own. Then there's the red thing on the enemy which makes it look like a shooter game instead of an action game.
I feel exactly the same here as you Tthe Spirit I can't understand those who complain about her moves.About the weapons they probably complain how she holds her weapons but think about it who would run through some caves with his guns half in the air.It always looked kinda funny in the old games but it was ok.:D
It gets more realistic every game
I'm really looking forward to that game.:jmp:
I feel the same way...people are starting to complain too much...
actually starting to get on my nerves..the game hasnt even come out yet
The reason people are whining is because deep down inside all they want is a game exactly the same as TR1 but with better graphics. That is the only thing that can please the un-pleaseables.
Eddie Haskell
08-04-07, 17:43
I feel the same way...people are starting to complain too much...
actually starting to get on my nerves..the game hasnt even come out yet
Some of you are sooooo insecure...
You're clearly new here, so I'll with-hold a pithy and witty retort. Instead, I suggest you read some of the well thought out, well reasoned arguments about why Crystal's take on Tomb Raider is far from the mark and why the "unpleasables" are perfectly within their rights to constructively criticise the direction the games are heading. That's directed at Danosix by the way, not you Eddie!
tweetygwee
08-04-07, 19:25
I find the Legend controls annoying. You can't get Lara to go where you want to, and the combat system is so stupid all I can do is press fire and hope for the best. The swing poles are just boring. Surely with modern technology you can have a bit more variety than just swinging and jumping. It's very bland compared to the excitement you get from "Temple of Xian" or "The Lost Library".
I find the Legend controls annoying. You can't get Lara to go where you want to, and the combat system is so stupid all I can do is press fire and hope for the best. The swing poles are just boring. Surely with modern technology you can have a bit more variety than just swinging and jumping. It's very bland compared to the excitement you get from "Temple of Xian" or "The Lost Library".
the controls needed to be updated, the game needed to be updated - BUUUUTT - the swingy grabby grapple shiny can't flick backwards stuf is a big let down. If TRA has NO grapples or poles but lots of oppotunities to fail and get lost then great.
PirateFromPeru
08-04-07, 20:39
I have no problems with anything really. I'm waiting for the game before I can give an accurate decision though. ;)
fondantcookie
08-04-07, 20:42
TRA is very much similar to TR1 IMO.
Can't think why that would be.... ;)
:wve:
2) Well, in the classics it was: run, jump, pull up, jump, pull up, roll, jump, pull up. I don't see your point...it's basically the same formula, just with different abilities.
3) You can toggle who you're aiming at in Legend. Classic Lara 'twisted and shot at nonsense things' also. Again, I don't see your point...
The classics were: where to jump next, what to grab next.
And these games are like: jump here, jump there, everything can be seen
Little-Lara
09-04-07, 05:43
/\ That is soo true. I hate that. Man, i was soo lost when i played TR1. I hope i get lost again!!! :jmp: :jmp: :jmp:
Shark_Blade
09-04-07, 06:29
The classics were: where to jump next, what to grab next.
And these games are like: jump here, jump there, everything can be seenAurimas you are so right! Legend is so dumb-down you have to follow a path they specified, like they fear if we get lost:rolleyes:
Blockoland
09-04-07, 09:22
I find the Legend controls annoying. You can't get Lara to go where you want to, and the combat system is so stupid all I can do is press fire and hope for the best. The swing poles are just boring. Surely with modern technology you can have a bit more variety than just swinging and jumping. It's very bland compared to the excitement you get from "Temple of Xian" or "The Lost Library".
I agree with you to a great extent. I prefer playing on the playstation to PC.
Maybe it's just me but sometimes I had real problems, for example, with the 'boss' combats, such as 'seeing' the enemy, switching between weapons and grapple, as well as making Lara go where I wanted her to go.
I also found the grapple pretty inaccurate at certain points in the game.
For all the 'clunky' controls of the earlier games (1-5) I always felt fully in control of Lara, whereas in Legend, I didn't. (Haven't played AOD so cannot comment on it.)
I know that the controls needed updating, however, I want to feel like I am in control of Lara. That is a major thing for me and is one of the things that I am interested in hearing about when the Anniversary Edition is released.
You're clearly new here, so I'll with-hold a pithy and witty retort. Instead, I suggest you read some of the well thought out, well reasoned arguments about why Crystal's take on Tomb Raider is far from the mark and why the "unpleasables" are perfectly within their rights to constructively criticise the direction the games are heading. That's directed at Danosix by the way, not you Eddie!
Forgive my previous post. It was out of line to state the obvious complains on this game to be mear daggers thrown at the game designers because they wanted to bring the game up to date.
Perhaps some of the, "Constructive criticism" is worthy of being forwarded to the game designers but most of them do not. Many of the arguements on this forum are hinting that they with for the edited parts to be simular if not exactly the same as the original. If you wish for a game that is almost identicle to the original then play the original. Creating a game that is too simular to the original is pretty much a waste of the designers time that they could spend focusing on a totally new game.
To add more excitment to this game it requires new elements that are based on the original.
The simple truth is no matter how the game turns out people will be highly criticle of certain parts of it because it isn't just how they wanted it. It is the same with ever game.
Shark_Blade
09-04-07, 16:10
Excuse me The spirit. There is no walk button in legend.
If you wish for a game that is almost identicle to the original then play the original.
Many people wanted a graphical update of TR1, long before anyone knew who Crystal was. Now with CD doing TR:A and Core version shelved, we have the re-imaging versus remake debate. If Crystal make good decisions about TR:A...its a remake, if bad, its a re-imaging. I'm sure if Core's TR:AE came out, people who loved Legend would want small changes as well.
I hate the overuse of swinging poles and the placement of them... it doesn't even look like they fit with the enviorment sometimes. (from what I've seen in the gameplay videos. Specially in Peru the beggining)
I think that Legend controls and TR2 controls onwards are as easy as each other. But they are very different. I'm not worrying as I have got used to both Grid Based system and Legends.
MakrakaNti
09-04-07, 18:31
Excuse me The spirit. There is no walk button in legend.
There is, after you install the update there is a walk button added! I was very happy about that update :D
laralauraxxx
09-04-07, 19:00
There is, after you install the update there is a walk button added! I was very happy about that update :D
REALLY ???? omg i have to get that !!! walk button here i come !!
Many people wanted a graphical update of TR1, long before anyone knew who Crystal was. Now with CD doing TR:A and Core version shelved, we have the re-imaging versus remake debate. If Crystal make good decisions about TR:A...its a remake, if bad, its a re-imaging. I'm sure if Core's TR:AE came out, people who loved Legend would want small changes as well.
But graphic updates alone will not sell the game. They must implement new game mechanics to make the game more interesting. They don't just want to sell this to previous tomb raider players. They want everyone to buy it so they must make a game that everyone can enjoy. Hense the new controls, moves and schenary.
I want a graphical update of the early games with fluid controls. It might happen one day, just not yet ;)
MakrakaNti
09-04-07, 22:32
Many people wanted a graphical update of TR1, long before anyone knew who Crystal was. Now with CD doing TR:A and Core version shelved, we have the re-imaging versus remake debate. If Crystal make good decisions about TR:A...its a remake, if bad, its a re-imaging. I'm sure if Core's TR:AE came out, people who loved Legend would want small changes as well.
I don't know. I'm happier with this reemaganing thingy, cause with only graphical updates it would be the same game and it wouldn't have been as exciting to me. This way we do get the graphical update, but we get a little bit more to the story and a few changes here and there during gameplay to make it even more exciting. That's how I interpret the reemaganing, so until I play the game I'll stick with that.
Plus as we have all seen, the game has gotten enormous proportions, which can only make it better. Everything looks amazing and BIGGER comparing to the original :D So if they keep the atmosphere that made us love TR1 so much I think this just might be the best Tomb Raider ever.
But, again, we'll just have to wait and see...
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