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stranger1992
29-04-07, 11:50
Right now; i am 100% confused with the whole TRLE buisness. Poepl are qutting left; right and centre. talent is severly being wasted and time has been lost. Is this the end of TRLE?.....






.........or is it the beggining?

Okay; that sounds weird; but please listen.

6.5 yeasrs ago...the LE ws released with TC tada yada yada. People took to this in such a phenomenen. Everyone was sooo excited their heroine in their own egyptian tombs.
Then programs started to emerge like TBuilder or Wadmerger; and people started to even make their own objects and outfits. It was a dream for die hard fans. This spawned such talented and versatille creators to show their talent off to the world.

Now here's the bit i want you to imagine. Think of the best objects; level and outfit builders and their work for a sec and then forget about it (for a sec mind :)) This is (in my opinion) the beggining of change for the LE. People aren't quitting becuase they feel like it (okay...some are). There moving on.

IS it time now to let other talented users to finally show what they can do?

I think so.

Thank you and good luck.

Betal
29-04-07, 11:52
I agree with 100%

Gravastars
29-04-07, 12:09
I don't really know it all too well, but from what i've seen, the LE community is a tad dysfunctional.

There's this huge division line between different sectors of the overall community and its turning level editing into a sour competition.

People quit from frustration of this, many also choose to quit because they feel their hard-work is being underappreciated and abused by other members.

As for the future, I don't know what to expect.

UnderwaterRaider
29-04-07, 12:19
Oh, you think? :D Took you long enough.

Titak
29-04-07, 15:08
I've been building from the beginning. And I don't plan to quit, because I still enjoy working on custom levels very much.
It has really given my imagination a boost! :jmp:

But if other people decide to quite for whatever reasons I respect and understand that.

There are still new builders arriving, which is very good I think and it also shows that this old LE is far from dead. :D
But the community has become more harsh I think. And it's a shame if people quit building because of that. It shouldn't be like that. It makes me sad. :(
But it is happening nonetheless and I think it is a signal for all of us.

I believe that builders should share their knowledge, especially if new discoveries are made. I therefor believe that the whole community would become more friendly again if people let go of the competition some more.
Well, this is my opinion.

As for me:
As long as people will play my levels and as long as I enjoy building levels (this is actually the most important aspect to me) I will continue. ;)

Dead_spiriT
29-04-07, 15:40
Yeah, I agree with Titak, now there are few groups that have make big distance to other people because some personal beliefs...
I have also before building only so that I can be part of some notional competitions, but now I build for fun only, without any stress, and results are better I think.
I'm also sad about people who have quit their work...

Piega
29-04-07, 15:47
I think competition is no matter anymore. Also competition is very unimportant. What to do with those old building blocks and same old gameplay mechanics? As for dying there are 2 reasons:

1: The graphics are too old thus it is not challenging enough to learn the editor.
2: Custom levels overflow. There are many levels so why make new ones?

In the old days it was all new, exciting and fresh. Graphics were old already but acceptable in my eyes. Now it is really old without antialiasing and clipping objects with latest drivers. This is my biggest issue but I guess each their own.

Quality comes with years and with new Tomb Raider games the community is somewhat devided into 2 catagories. The experienced and the newbies. I guess this is the part that the community has become more harsh as Titak says cause those two like to point their finger sometimes against each other.

Most important facter that is left is if you still like to use this old thing and spent your precious time on it. Personally I dont think I will use this thing after Sanctuaries unlike the shot I posted. I think I had enough.

BlackGrey
29-04-07, 15:50
Personally I dont think I will use this thing after Sanctuaries unlike the shot I posted. I think I had enough.

Will you give up on building the new project all together or will you use a different engine?

Piega
29-04-07, 17:31
Nope, nothing afterwards. Also no new engine. Sure I will have a look when Paolone releases his new exe file and maybe I will get in the mood but I dont count on that. Sanctuaries however will be finished. It took me too long to give up on that but I must admit that I must drag myself sometimes to open those projects.

BlackGrey
29-04-07, 17:36
Nope, nothing afterwards. Also no new engine. Sure I will have a look when Paolone releases his new exe file and maybe I will get in the mood but I dont count on that. Sanctuaries however will be finished. It took me too long to give up on that but I must admit that I must drag myself sometimes to open those projects.

Such a shame, I was looking forward to your new project :(

Izzie404
30-04-07, 01:36
Has anyone noticed that there have been many new members here in the TRLE subforum? Maybe this really is the second wave!; :cln: It's exciting!

dreamsoflara
30-04-07, 01:57
Well im sad to see Po Yu and Alex (uwr) go,

but thats their choice, they will be missed but i suppose if they wish to go then thats their choice,

although i think they need to know that if they ever wish to come back that then door will always be open for them,

As for the split between the newbies and experienced i think its kinda wrong, some experienced members look down at the newbies and because of this the newbies are feeling dis-couraged and its coming through in some peoples work, although some newbies also think that they will release a level and everyone will love it, they then get dissapointed and say things about the experienced when their level is rated low, and all the experienced guys were trying to do was help them with some constructive critisism,

as for the 'new wave' i hope that we will see some Po-Yu's and some Underwaterraiders' rise up and take their places, i really hope so

LaraCablara
30-04-07, 02:20
I've been building from the beginning. And I don't plan to quit, because I still enjoy working on custom levels very much.
It has really given my imagination a boost! :jmp:

But if other people decide to quite for whatever reasons I respect and understand that.

There are still new builders arriving, which is very good I think and it also shows that this old LE is far from dead. :D
But the community has become more harsh I think. And it's a shame if people quit building because of that. It shouldn't be like that. It makes me sad. :(
But it is happening nonetheless and I think it is a signal for all of us.

I believe that builders should share their knowledge, especially if new discoveries are made. I therefor believe that the whole community would become more friendly again if people let go of the competition some more.
Well, this is my opinion.

As for me:
As long as people will play my levels and as long as I enjoy building levels (this is actually the most important aspect to me) I will continue. ;)

I agree with that Titak :( Ive noticed that since NGLE was released people would be automatically amazed by a level using 256x256 textures...It discourages me, and Ive actually quit level building until the summer (for personal reasons)

But the LE world will never come to end, at least not when people are creating levels for fun, we have so many new builders now and they show so much potential, I agree with the Topic Creator that this is like the second (or third, or fourth, I have not been around for 6 years) of level building.

GeckoKid
30-04-07, 03:59
you also need to count in those few who are working in the background and not really feeling like posting a screenshot every week or two...

i keep revising my levels according to the technologies available and uni work is a bit bogging, and i build very slow...

pedro
30-04-07, 06:48
I think that it is all a matter of evolution! A lot of people out there started when they were 14 or 15 years old and are, by now, in their twenties or more.
They grew during the development of the TR engine, giving you more possibilities each time.This causes in time deffinitly a competition in knowledge
and as in real live a good deal of ego building by some of them!?
In the end some might grow out of it as they proceed in live and other challenges lurking at the horizon. In other words they get a little bored with the TR engine!

Never the less, in early days before VHS and DVD the Disney policy was to
re-release their films like "Bambi" every seven years, as in that time periode a new generation would stand up and wanted to see it!
The fact that Lego developped "Technical Lego" does not mean that you can't still build some very nice things with the old fashioned blocks. As long as you do it for your own pleasure, and as a hobby, a lot of us will be going the same way of evolution. Let us do that step by step and in good harmony!

( This is my personal opinion and hope I offended nobody!;)

Michiel
30-04-07, 08:29
Well I quit level building ages ago, since I managed to hit the limits with nearly every project I wanted to make :tea: TRLE is far to limited for the stuff I like to build. The movement in Tomb Raider is very limited, and the enviroment isn't very interactive. TREP en NGLE offer many new things, but trle still remains a very old product full of limits. So I'm just not using it anymore.

However, not using TRLE to build levels doesn't mean you have to disappear and remove everything you ever made. People can still use your custom outfits or objects in their projects, so there is no need to remove all your work when you leave. That also doesn't happen in real life right? At least I never saw a city being completely demolished after the original citizens passed away and the new citizens had to completely reconstruct everything :tea:

Titak
30-04-07, 09:13
and i build very slow...
You better get your butt in gear then. I basically have a final cutscene, a 1/4 of a title flyby and some finetuning of the last levels to do, and then HM will be finished. Wouldn't it be weird if my levels came out before yours? :p

Mine might look lame compared to yours though. I haven't updated the textures to highres ones (yet).

As long as you do it for your own pleasure, and as a hobby, a lot of us will be going the same way of evolution. Let us do that step by step and in good harmony!
I agree! :tmb:

Well I quit level building ages ago, since I managed to hit the limits with nearly every project I wanted to make
Boy do I know how that feels! :vlol:

Anyway, LE isn't dead for me yet. Especially with all those new people starting to build levels. :D
So, time for me to work on my levels a bit more. :D

Uvavoo
30-04-07, 09:37
With regards computer games it is easy to lose sight of what is important.
My son recently bought a PS3. Of course the graphics are stunning. The more capable the machine, the longer it takes to create a game, and usually the games become shorter.

I will let you into a secret, it is the GAME PLAY which is important.
I say this with all honesty and no nostalgia, that Tomb Raider 1 is 10 times better than Legend, despite its fancy graphics. TR1 had tons of atmosphere and gameplay and although Legend is getting back on track from the disastrous AOD, it suffered from repetitive gameplay and was too easy and above all TOO SHORT.

The bottom line is that with TRLE you have the means to create a truly great level, it is down to you, the designer to make it so. Above all, it has to be fun to do and newbies must be prepared to make the effort and experienced builders must be prepared to help the determined newby.

As a final note, take a look at the download figures from TRLE which they occasionally publish and you will see 10's of thousands of levels are still downloaded, so people are still playing custom levels.

BlackGrey
30-04-07, 09:55
With regards computer games it is easy to lose sight of what is important.
My son recently bought a PS3. Of course the graphics are stunning. The more capable the machine, the longer it takes to create a game, and usually the games become shorter.

I will let you into a secret, it is the GAME PLAY which is important.
I say this with all honesty and no nostalgia, that Tomb Raider 1 is 10 times better than Legend, despite its fancy graphics. TR1 had tons of atmosphere and gameplay and although Legend is getting back on track from the disastrous AOD, it suffered from repetitive gameplay and was too easy and above all TOO SHORT.

The bottom line is that with TRLE you have the means to create a truly great level, it is down to you, the designer to make it so. Above all, it has to be fun to do and newbies must be prepared to make the effort and experienced builders must be prepared to help the determined newby.

As a final note, take a look at the download figures from TRLE which they occasionally publish and you will see 10's of thousands of levels are still downloaded, so people are still playing custom levels.

Hear, hear! :tmb:

stranger1992
30-04-07, 14:44
Well from what i have seen around the internet...yeah...new talent is coming foward. Take a look on the tomb riader search engine. 'Masked Raider' is coming up with some fantastic ideas. Summery dresses that really do look cool. Of course they are not as refined as PoYu's yet but give a guy a chance. As for me...i'm starting to really polish the look of my levels and it's atmosphere...in a shadow of Underwater Raider. Here's a screen for a project i'm working on
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t120/stranger1992/newpicondablocklol.jpg

now okay...please say itf that is too self centered..but there is toooo much talent that will not get the credit here.

This brings me to the 'newbie-pro' divide. Yes; i think it is happaning/happaned but then you take a look at the crossover 's between the groups. Take for instance Ayal91. (this is muy opinion and i'm beinng honest). This user creates some Animations for lara. Well...before he/she came along...i was like "Don't match SSJ6Wolf"...but i downloaded anyway. The first anim ws a little shakey i didn't like it much. 1 month later...his new animation " Sprint Roll" is absoloutly fantastic. it's sooo smooth and is legend like.

That is the corssover i'm taklking about. Refining your own skills and really packing a punch into what people are doing. It can only get better from here.


Final word (in this post lol): Newbs'; you will be great someday; don't be discouraged and practice hard! Pro's; Keep the work going on but remeber; your not the best level builder or the best animator...so don't get too confident

dreamsoflara
30-04-07, 15:09
Final word (in this post lol): Newbs'; you will be great someday; don't be discouraged and practice hard! Pro's; Keep the work going on but remeber; your not the best level builder or the best animator...so don't get too confident

Yeah, unlike me i rule all, hehe

but that was pretty much the perfect Post stranger1992 and i agree with you 100% :D

tweetygwee
30-04-07, 15:19
I have no intention of quitting my current project, and I will continue to build whatever people think of me, post, or discredit my work. Opinions are opinions, and that's fine. As long as there are still people who do enjoy my levels, I will continue to build so that they aren't disappointed. I certainly wouldn't try to erase everything to do with me when I quit, I want to leave my creations for future builders. The only reason I will be quitting is that I lose interest in building, or obviously if I die!

As for the potential left in building, it's still there. With NGLE, Fexengine and TREP we have come so far already, and we can continue those advancements. It has been proven that you can do original and completely different things with TRLE (ahem, Richard Lawther, although I'm sure there are some other creative and original people out there).

Bitterness and resentment should be left in our minds, this should be about level building.

stranger1992
30-04-07, 16:17
Bitterness and resentment should be left in our minds, this should be about level building.

Thats exactly what I think...well done!!!!! yahoo!!! It will only get better. Not worse...backwards or around in viscious cycles; but better :)

GeckoKid
30-04-07, 17:45
i don't see why not, titak... at this rate i'm sure i can't make it before 2008 XD

Titak
30-04-07, 18:33
i don't see why not, titak... at this rate i'm sure i can't make it before 2008 XD
Oh dear!
No problem then. I'll just release HM whenever it is finished. They are different levelsets with different stories anyway. ;)

stranger1992
30-04-07, 18:50
hi.

not to be rude; but it's getting off topic in here. :)

dreamsoflara
30-04-07, 19:09
hi.

not to be rude; but it's getting off topic in here. :)

Posting an off topic statement such as that surely makes people like me reply, therefore causing even more diversion from the topic,

if you'd said that and then said something on topic, then the thread would have returned back on topic but for you to say such a thing causes more off topic - ness (?)

aktrekker
01-05-07, 07:50
LOL
:eek:
sorry, that was off topic.
:vlol:

I think things are pretty much on topic. About the future of trle.

oh no, that was on topic.

Titak
01-05-07, 08:04
hi.

not to be rude; but it's getting off topic in here. :)
I know. Shame on me. :o I should give myself a warning now.
.
.
.
.
.
Warning given and accepted.
Apologies. :D

Well, actually, those offtopic remarks by Geckokid and myself actually show that there are people continuing with LE, even though it is limited and old. :p :D
I can't help myself... I'm stil in love with good old LE. :hug:

stranger1992
01-05-07, 14:40
okay; sorry; this is ontopic.

Well addresing the bitterness and jealousy between people in the trle world; which is wrong; how aobut some sort of commity of pledge that ensures that peoples work is fairly treated; no-one is taking advantage and free information without restraint from any user?

It's just a tohught; but i think something needs to be done or things will worsen.

Uvavoo
01-05-07, 15:34
bitterness and jealousy between people in the trle world

What are you referring to?

stranger1992
01-05-07, 15:55
bitterness and jealousy between people in the trle world

What are you referring to?

Okay; maybe the wording was off but I just summing what people have been saying on his topic. I was reffereing to no-one :)

stranger1992
01-05-07, 16:11
1. Always say 'please' and 'thank you' when asking for something.
2. Avoid the I want it and I want it now post. You will probably not get answered.
3. Try to find the answers in previous posts or look in the very useful Frequently Asked Questions (sticky) thread first.
4. Avoid asking very basic and/or very general questions like 'I have installed the Level Editor, how do I build levels'. Or 'How do I connect two rooms". This type of question shows an unwillingness on the part of the user to put any effort into their work.
5. If a user posts examples of his/her work, remember that people are of mixed ability or are new to the Level Editor. Make constructive comments like 'More time needs to be spent on lighting as the rooms look a little bland" not 'This looks rubbish'.
6. If you don't know the answer, don't post a guess, or if you do make sure that it is made clear that you are guessing.
7. This is a Level Editor forum and not a General Chat forum, so posts should be specific to the Level Editor and work created with it. No spamming please.
8. Above all keep all posts friendly, this has always been a friendly forum and I wish it to remain so.
9. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL PERSONAL ATTACKS BE TOLERATED. FORUM RULES MUST BE ADHERED TO.

I found this by tiktak and i just wanted everyone to see it again.

tweetygwee
01-05-07, 16:52
I found this by tiktak and i just wanted everyone to see it again.

By Uvavoo, you mean. See, he's tried to make it a nicer forum, and so does Titak. It's never going to be perfect harmony whatever you do. This is life. All we can do is be considerate and thoughtful, and hope others will.

MaskedRaider
01-05-07, 17:53
For some reason, as I see it, people are getting far too serious about things lately.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but level / outfit editing is a hobby. Sometimes hobby's can be frustraiting and hard - like that really cool move you can't quite pull of in dance, or that trick that goes a little bit wrong in football - but people carry on because they want too. Sometimes people feel bored because of doing something for a while and they move on.

As long as someone still wants to create and play the LE isn't dead.

QRS
01-05-07, 18:56
If you like building custom levels you will do that. As long as it is fun you will continue to do it. If it stops being funny, it doesn't matter how many people who appreciates your work....as it will only be hmm work if you go on ;);) I think it is as simple as that. If you still want to linger and do other things in the trle community or just leave, that's up to every person to decide :)

Izzie404
02-05-07, 01:12
The only thing I worry about is: If I diverge away from trle for a while, and come back, will people still be using it 2+ years from now? I really hope so!

:off:
I found this by tiktak and i just wanted everyone to see it again
:vlol::vlol: You said tiktak [tictac], lmao... :vlol:...sorry, that was kind of mean, but I thought it was funny :o

stranger1992
02-05-07, 14:49
The only thing I worry about is: If I diverge away from trle for a while, and come back, will people still be using it 2+ years from now? I really hope so!

:off:

:vlol::vlol: You said tiktak [tictac], lmao... :vlol:...sorry, that was kind of mean, but I thought it was funny :o

OMG!!! I did! I'm sooo stupid lol. Sorry tikak like 100000 big.. i'm, just hopeless with names;

Yes; i hope that people will be using it 2 years; because i cannot wait to see some anniversairy textures in custom levels; and so i can use the also. And what with FexEngine and NGTomb4...we will see some exciting stuff happan around here in that time.

oh...and while i'm at it; take a look at this; at the bottom of the page.

"Uvavoo posted it"???? (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=33759&page=4)

Titak posted it. now i'm not sure if was original; but this is where i found it and titak posted ;)

Anyway; have a nice day !!!

dreamsoflara
02-05-07, 15:07
OMG!!! I did! I'm sooo stupid lol. Sorry tikak like 100000 big.. i'm, just hopeless with names;




hehe, you just called her tikak,

:vlol:

having a bad day stranger1992?

hehe

tweetygwee
02-05-07, 17:01
stranger1992:

1. You got it wrong again! It's not Tiktak or Tikak, it's Titak :p
2. Uvavoo did post it originally, I wasn't aware that Titak posted it as well. I read this one:

http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=75927

stranger1992
02-05-07, 18:11
yes...i am having a very very bad day. Sorry all! :(

tizerist
02-05-07, 18:53
this is an interesting topic.

i think its all healthy myself, as we're seeing slow, but definate advances in what is possible.

with the NGLE and soon (how soon BTW?) the NG tomb4 the amount of pleasant surprises we come across is always expanding. Cut-scenes , for example, are becoming more common as knowledge spreads.
people learn from each other.
As for the us-versus-them newbie-pro thing, i haven't seen much evidence of that, but with competition comes a certain amount of venom.
every cloud has a silver lining, right?

and above all else, we've still got all the older custom games to choose from all the while. They don't just dissappear!

lots to look forward to.

PS uvavoo, how far you got with POTA NGLE?:wve:

Uvavoo
03-05-07, 08:22
First level is complete apart from:
Custom audio, still being produced.
Custom FMV still being produced.
Otherwise should be ready for beta testing before long.

stranger1992
09-09-07, 02:08
BUMP!

I want to tell u about what's been going on with me and whats happaned with me in the trle world as you might find it interesting or you might just be suprised.Please read as it may interest you...

Okay i want to start nearly a year ago; in December 2006:

December 2006-February 2007-In God's left hand.

I as a builder who was still using the Egypt WADs and was self taught and sorted out problems myself (as i had no internet).To me, building was fun. It felt like you were in charge of this wide world and you could do anything you wanted with lara.
One day, i stumbled on trsearch and joined it's community and it kept that way of being fun and interesting. A month later i joined up here and it was still fun. I didnt know how to build objects and i ignored the limits of the LE.

March 2007-May 2007-In the belly of the beast...

These months came a big turning point. I got involved in a group project. i wont name which but anyway; i saw how hard it was to build in a group project. Remember, i was still a technical 'newb' though i'd been building for about a year previous. I can tell you now that the pressures of a group project that has no rappoor to it are not something pretty. It made me feel restricted, not allowed to build how i liked and what i wanted. Everything felt like big buisness and not a simple hobby. The project got canceled.

June 2007-8th September 2007-..and out the demon's ass.

Now these months i think i wasted. I spent my time in the TRLE just not sure, not seriously building anything and I started seeing the broader horizons in the TRLE world. The group projects of just remakes that have came and gone. The newer members making a big splash in this big pond. Myself being a bit of well...an idiot when it came down to conduct around here and other places. Building/TRLE was not fun in the slightest. Everyone wanted something, you have no time for yourself. Myself finding me thinking "oh, this will be good as no-one has done this....i hope people notice it"; like some weird fortune teller that predict the future. Offers for projects that i've considered and like the idea of but just seem now to be wrong.

9th September 2007-Its a new dawn..a new day..a new life..for me..and I'm feeling good
now suddenly, i've somehow re-found this spark i had back a year ago for level building. its all starting to become interesting again. i cannot believe it that on the same day a major problem forcing me to can a level i had been working on for a week or 2 but at the same time, i saw this man in the mirror and i did not like the way i was dealing with all these things. So in reflection, since I had gone back to basics...my level building now and I sent an email to tinka asking if i can do the BTB 08 competition. If i get, then that'll be good. If i dont; well y'know; i know now i tried and i can only go up; not down,side to side or back in time.



The reason for me posting this is basically for you as a reader to have an insight of a messed up member's thoughts and hopefully not making the mistakes i've done with TRLE lately. And please do not mock me for this post, i posted to help, not to be knocked back down

thankyou



s92

stranger1992

2kool4u
09-09-07, 02:46
begins to claps, that was a good read.

Horus-Goddess
09-09-07, 05:23
Very good stranger1992! And I will say in responce to other replies, that I would agree that TRLE is simply only a hobby, nothing more. It's why we don't pay money to download levels or to commission somebody to build something (or make objects of sorts). The whole purpose is that we all come together and make things we enjoy making without any strings attached. I've never made levels because quite frankly, the editor confuses the hell out of me and I don't have the patience I used to for it. I did make a level (never released) years ago but I actually knew what I was doing back then. xD I had the time to devote to it to learn and memorize it but now when I open it I'm like "HUH???" A pity... but, I still build stuff for it sometimes. whenever I have the time... and that's really my forte I think.

I feel like I'm getting to the point where the engine is really too limited, I'd rather have UV mapping and the bone structure option that new engines offer... you know, stuff like that. But for now TRLE is really all I have. So I'll continue to build for it probably. I like to because I grew up with Tomb Raider, I always love going back and playing levels for it. And I've always wondered too if the LE community and the hype around LE would ever disappear. It's been a good 6 or so years suprisingly. I still remember the day I found the Level Editor in the store. I was so hyped!

So it's good to see that so many other TR lovers have not given up hope on the Level Editor and that it's still got its strengths. I will agree with someone who mentioned this earlier, that what makes a good game or level is thought out, well done game play. I'll agree that Legend was far too easy, and far too short. So in many respects, the originals will always top the new unless something miraculous happens. TRA wasn't so bad...

But anyway I'll stop babbling.. just thought I'd put in my two cents.

MaskedRaider
09-09-07, 09:34
I strongly agree with the both of you HG and Stranger - the LE is a hobby, it should not be some obsessive slave-labour style boot camp. Well said both of you.
I personally will not give up until i am satisfied with what I have made, and as long as others have the inspiration and desire to continue, i don't see why the LE should stop.

p.s. HG - i'm a babbler myself sometimes, so i sympathise ;)

Inkheart
09-09-07, 09:51
I feel like I'm getting to the point where the engine is really too limited, .

I think we're actually getting to the point where we're opening up more of the level editor. Have you seen the stuff they're putting into Early Legend Remake? Some of the moves are phenomenal, and from what I can see, they're doing a great job of dublicating the Legend engine onto something that predates it by years. What with TREP and NGLE, I can't see any excuse for us to stop making levels.

Maybe the large amount of people leaving is just an unfortunate coincidence? When I started, I said to myself 'I'm not going to do this forever, only until I go to Uni'. Maybe they've done the same?

I'm sure there will be talented people rushing to fill the void :)

stranger1992
09-09-07, 09:53
i think you are right with that Inkheart; technical limits are getting pushed though of course there are still some. But in my view, the more technically better something is, the more work u have to do to use it. :)

tweetygwee
09-09-07, 09:56
I started properly in Decmber 2006 too, when I finally realised that I should do the tutorial. Before that I was building absolute :cen: and I couldn't even play my first level, because I didn't know how to output etc.! It had the weirdest texturing style (getting used to textures really changes the world around you. I often look around and think I'm seeing a "textured" world!) and underwater mazes with textures stretched across 20-click tiles.

The manual and tutorial changed that though (so read the :cen: manual, people!) and I started building my first levelset, which I'm not finding the "drive" to finish off. :( Don't worry, I am not cancelling anything. If I start a project, I will finish it whatever happens.

I'm waiting for TRNG, but I'm really looking forward to fexengine. As far as I know, we will be able to modify room geometry(!), but it will still behave like the original room.

Titak
09-09-07, 10:43
Good post, Stranger! :tmb:

Group projects can cause a lot of (negative) pressure, depending on how much people are involved and how much the ideas each member has fits with the ideas of the others.

So far I've been involved in several group projects. Each oen had a different setup and here's what I think about them:
- Lara at the movies:
This was very well setup. I could build my own level and did not have to worry about what the other members were building, since we all build our own movie individually.
The only thing I had to worry about was which audio tracks I wanted to use and I shared them with the others in case they wanted to use them also.
In a way this setup was very similar to the setup of the Tenderfoot project.

- UUB3 - The Plain of Jars.
I've build alot of levels for this project and the ideas I had for it had to fit Richard's ideas. This was okay though because it was only the two of us working together on this project. The cooperation went very well, also because we allowed each other to develop our own ideas and make objects and environments we each liked (fitting the story ofcourse).

- Coyote Creek
The initial idea was that I would create the train level. This did not happen in the end due to lack of time on my part.
This project was more difficult for me because more people were working on it. More people means more ideas and we had a lot of discussions about what each of us wanted to put in and what was eventually put in. This requires alot of effort from all the members involved. If not done right it can cause a lot of frustrations, which can eventually cause a project to be cancelled. There were indeed some frustrations at certain point, but we always managed to get over those and the levels turned out great, if I may say so myself. :D
I have good memories when thinking back.

So, having been in group projects myself, I can understand this feeling very well:
Everything felt like big buisness and not a simple hobby.

Some people work better on their own, some work better when part of a group project. This is only natural I think.
And each builder should find out for him/herself which works best for him/her to keep regarding levelbuilding as a FUN hobby.

Looks to me like you prefer working on a level by yourself or with a groupproject set up like the Tenderfoot project where you can build your own level with your own ideas.
This is okay and I'm glad you have found back that spark that makes TRLE fun for you! :hug:

stranger1992
09-09-07, 11:36
thanks Titak :hug: that was a nice insight.

i think its true from what i've seen that the serious amount of group projects around that end up failing are down to the fact that it is not big business. I think that the failed projects don't really consider the emotional effects/constraints and are only interested in the result ect. This is in opinion dosent leave the happy memories that you have Titia from projects like Coyote Creak (which i was only just looking at the Coyote Creak Muesem on "that site ;) and you worked so hard on things like the shovel anim ect from what i read) but rather then spending efforts on researching/modding out the old Tomb4 features like with the shovel animation (it was the DIRT_ANIM slot i think) to move the dirt in "Lara and the chief" and are prepared to give up if it gets even lightly bit too hard and requires some clever thinking in the levels.

Also something i want to point is with group projects i'll now start calling "Business Arrangements" is that levels seem to be churned out at an alarming rate; yet when you download and play its not special just "get from A-B push the block and kill the animal and the jump for 5 minutes until the end..yawn! Where is the interest in that. What i personally love is the feeling of being alone, multiple ways to do a level, exploration and remembering features of different sections of the level so that when u flick a switch and a camera points at an open door you instantly think "aha; that was here" and you run off to that point.
Or like when you've traversed across a large chasm or something and there's a snake or something jumps out at you and there's an audio track and instantly, you are on your toes and guns drawn out firing. Thats what i count as "a level" which i like to play, as it took many months to create it, not like a few weeks or something and laboriously building for like 2 days or something and it justs seems the building is a big chore.

thankyou :)