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Old 21-04-17, 14:50   #41
Zebra
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IIRC, ancient Egyptian priests were also circumcised as a sign of purity and cleanliness.

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Originally Posted by Boobandie View Post
Considering the cleanliness argument is debunked in countries where we bathe more than once every couple of months, perhaps that can be dismissed as an argument if favour of mutilating your sons against their will.
Yes, obviously. We were just discussing how it originally came about several millenia ago. (EDIT: I just googled it and, apparently, some experts believe that the procedure may actually have been invented as long as 15000 years ago. Did not know that.)
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Old 22-04-17, 01:03   #42
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Originally Posted by Dennis's Mom View Post
No, male circumcision is for cleanliness, and depending on who you want to trust, disease prevention.
Neither of which are enough to justify mutilation and frankly, nonsense for the most part.
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Old 22-04-17, 12:01   #43
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Except it hasn't been "totally debunked", and it's not mutilation. It's involuntary. You don't like it, we get that, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

IMO, this is just another attempt by a man to point to something that isn't equivocal in any way except it involves genitals and say, "look it happens to men too!" because men just can't stand it when women are treated horribly and it's due to the patriarchy's beliefs that women are sub-creatures and untrustworthy and need to be controlled, so they need to find something they feel put upon about and inflate the issue to try to make it equal.

But it's not equal. No one is trying to deny men's interest in sex or deny their pleasure in the act, and male circumcision does not curb men's interest in sex or remove their pleasure in the act. That's the entire purpose for FGM.
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Old 22-04-17, 12:30   #44
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^Bull****. I haven't seen anyone in here say that FGM isn't so bad because "it happens to men, too". In fact, from what I've read in here, everyone who's been arguing that male circumcision is mutilation and should be banned is also very much opposed to FGM and finds it atrocious.

Furthermore, what the original, Bronze Age motive behind the procedure may have been doesn't change the fact that it's utterly unnecessary and scientifically meritless in modern Western society. And yes, of course FGM more significantly affects the victim's ability to be sexually stimulated and feel sexual pleasure than male circumcision/genital mutilation/whatever you want to call it does and I don't think anyone here has been denying that, but this isn't a contest. The point is that both are despicable, medically unnecessary practices being carried out on unconsenting minors and that should be enough for anyone to realise that neither should be legal. I mean, what you're doing is the equivalent of arguing that convicting someone of battery somehow invalidates the criminalisation of murder. Sure, murder is worse than battery but that doesn't magically make battery A-okay.
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Old 22-04-17, 12:38   #45
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Has the western world suddenly thought FGM is okay? Didn't think so.

What is happening on a daily basis in the western world is boys being mutilated by their parents. It has declined to barely any in countries like Australia and New Zealand (I've not looked up europe's statistics) but is a routine practice in the states and still legal everywhere else.

Regardless of if it's female or male, because you think it's cleaner, your religion tells you to, or from institutionalized suppression of libido; you're performing an irreversible unnecessary surgery on a minor without their consent that will permanently affect their life. It's child abuse and a law needs to be put in place to stop it on both sexes in cases that are not a medical emergency with no alternative. That's why it's comparable, despite how much worse it is for women.

If a man or a woman wants to get it after they're 18. Power to them. They have the right to modify their body as much as they like. But they should not have the power to do that to others.
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Old 22-04-17, 12:48   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis's Mom View Post
Except it hasn't been "totally debunked", and it's not mutilation. It's involuntary. You don't like it, we get that, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

IMO, this is just another attempt by a man to point to something that isn't equivocal in any way except it involves genitals and say, "look it happens to men too!" because men just can't stand it when women are treated horribly and it's due to the patriarchy's beliefs that women are sub-creatures and untrustworthy and need to be controlled, so they need to find something they feel put upon about and inflate the issue to try to make it equal.

But it's not equal. No one is trying to deny men's interest in sex or deny their pleasure in the act, and male circumcision does not curb men's interest in sex or remove their pleasure in the act. That's the entire purpose for FGM.
I'm sorry but...

The source you posted to back up your claims is hardly adequate. I mean, countries where most males are circumcised still show extremely high disease rates. Nobody is trying to say that circumcision in men is worse than FGM. The fact you claim "male circumcision does not curb men's interest in sex or remove their pleasure in the act." is incorrect. I won't go into details because it would be too crude, that is all you need to know.

FGM is beyond the most stupid act anyone could perform! I cannot believe stuff like this is allowed to happen in this day and age. There is absolutely no hope these days.

Cheers.

Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobandie View Post
Has the western world suddenly thought FGM is okay? Didn't think so.

What is happening on a daily basis in the western world is boys being mutilated by their parents. It has declined to barely any in countries like Australia and New Zealand (I've not looked up europe's statistics) but is a routine practice in the states and still legal everywhere else.

Regardless of if it's female or male, because you think it's cleaner, your religion tells you to, or from institutionalized suppression of libido; you're performing an irreversible unnecessary surgery on a minor without their consent that will permanently affect their life. It's child abuse and a law needs to be put in place to stop it on both sexes in cases that are not a medical emergency with no alternative. That's why it's comparable, despite how much worse it is for women.

If a man or a woman wants to get it after they're 18. Power to them. They have the right to modify their body as much as they like. But they should not have the power to do that to others.
Perfect, well said.
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Old 22-04-17, 12:50   #47
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@Boobandie: Obviously, this may differ from country to country but AFAIK, it's not really a standard procedure in Europe the way it is in the US. On minors, it's only done for religious reasons or if there's a medical issue like phimosis (although I would think that some doctors can be a bit too quick to suggest in such cases, especially now that better, non-surgical treatments for phimosis are available).
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Old 23-04-17, 12:12   #48
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^Bull****. I haven't seen anyone in here say that FGM isn't so bad because "it happens to men, too". In fact, from what I've read in here, everyone who's been arguing that male circumcision is mutilation and should be banned is also very much opposed to FGM and finds it atrocious.
But you somehow can't discuss it without discussing something something completely different. "Oh that's bad, but let's talk about us."
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Old 23-04-17, 12:15   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis's Mom View Post
But you somehow can't discuss it without discussing something something completely different. "Oh that's bad, but let's talk about us."
I wasn't the one who originally brought it up in here. I merely replied to other posts which were already talking about male circumcision. And the reason why the discussion ended up focusing on male circumcision is, I imagine, that there's not too much for us to discuss when it comes to FGM. Everyone in here agrees that it's terrible and it's already illegal in the West (which is where this incident happened). I did mention methods to try and prevent this sort of thing from happening in my first post in here but nobody replied to that part of the post. Even you preferred to reply to people talking about male circumcision instead of just leading by example and actually discussing FGM.
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