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Old 26-06-18, 02:15   #11
CrowdedToaster
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Oh wow hey congratulations!! What an amazing and beautiful first several steps you have taken!!!!


I am sorry to hear some of people close to you aren't fully accepting/understanding of your sexuality. I hope you will gain more confidence in yourself as you continue to explore.

Before I give some advice, I will let you know I am gay myself and have been open about it since about 2015. Since then I have grown exponentially. I'd say the most concentrated personal growth occurred within the span of 2015 to the current day for me. Still ongoing. Anyway, I have went through numerous dating apps and sites to inform myself, go on dates with others, and whatnot. I have done research, shared stories in person and online, and have even focused my papers on LGBT topics specifically. I currently have a partner with whom I have a monogamous relationship for nearly two years, and I also work at an LGBTQI2S counselling centre now.

Anyway, now that you know a little about me, I would love to give some personal insight!

~~~

Overcoming internalized homophobia is a struggle that you may never completely overcome. It is something that is ingrained through years of historical oppression, epigenetics and layers of systemic barriers and so on.

But just because internal oppression/homophobia is so ingrained within us, doesn't mean we can't find ways to handle it. You may reach a point where you can comfortably live without disgust and hatred stemming from internalized oppression, but even then those feelings may arise occasionally. In the end, it is more of a matter of finding ways to deal with it.

I just wanted to ask before moving on and helping more, in what ways do you experience and present internalized homophobia? Internalized homophobia isn't something that can be instantly picked out. Rather, it presents itself as a manifestation of different behaviours, thoughts and actions stemming from internal hate and discomfort with the self and one's own sexuality. Common examples include substance abuse, self-esteem issues, generalized shame and depression. Then there are more complex behaviours and attitudes, such as discomfort with other people similar to you regardless of their true gender or sexual identity; "heterophobia"; development of superiority complexes; projection of internalised hate towards particular groups via bullying, harassment, etc.

I ask this because in order to overcome any of this, it is important to properly identify how this hatred is projected and is presented on the surface level first.
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Old 26-06-18, 04:13   #12
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it's best to find a group of people who share your worldview and can help you without making you feel bad about it
You know how badly I want this? Very. Yet the reality is, there just isn't any where I am. I've hoped so long, I've started to nearly believe I will be forever closeted, stuck with internalized homophobia. Not having ANY gay experience, this **** scares me, I won't lie. Having another gay person look down on me for begin inexperienced.

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A very large part of how you see yourself and others and the world is experience: how you grew up, what you were exposed to, and what people told you was right or wrong without giving you the chance to decide for yourself. Take my parents for example.
Yeah, my parents ALWAYS told me that gay people are always sick and disgusting. Pure lust, no love. You have about a 1% chance to ever find love with the same sex. Of course, what they said swarms through my mind like a blood sucking leech. I'm like close to permanently believing if I'm gay I'd be alone and depressed forever, as oppose to being straight where real love is possible. As the 'all about lust, no love' is rather less. Not completely excluding straight people aren't all about lust either.

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Hey, I have issues with a lot of the community too (not on TRF, the one here is tame and nice compared to others I've known--as you can see in this thread). There's different kinds of gay people same as there's different kinds of straight people, bi people, trans, and so on-- not all of the same sexuality is going to mesh and that's okay.
My main issue usually shows more aggressive when the media over exaggerates gay characters. Like... we've never seen them before. Like the whole Last of Us II thing. Which explains my outrageous outburst in such thread, now gone as it should be.

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As has been mentioned, there's quite a lot of gay role models in the media
The only ones I know, and probably will only know are my characters from my own game.

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The best course of action I'd say is to just wait, comfort her as much as you can
She told me, for comfort, just pretend it never happened.
And thus, this cycle continues. I told her.

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You might not be accepted by the community..
This is true for not rallying at parades? I really hope not. That's just. not my thing.

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No. But don’t think you’re above them or think they’re a disgrace to the community like how many gays do now. That sorta mindset is very toxic and plays a huge role in internalized homophobia & misogyny. I’m not good at give advice or anything but Fantasy’s post nailed it.
I don't think it, and nothing I said would lead one to think that.
Another thing I dislike about the community. I see it so much. If I don't look a certain way, I'm on accepted, if I don't do certain things, I'm not accepted. I shouldn't have to do extra just because I'm gay. We all know that, don't we?

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The only time I'm bothered is when something really plays into negative stereotypes of gay men. An example of this is what I commented on in the LGBT group chatroom on this forum a few days ago. I saw a trailer for a movie Call Me By Your Name last year. For what I saw the movie basically revolves around some teenage boy, who apparently had a girlfriend, getting lovestruck by some 20-something man. I hate that narrative. When there is already a stereotype in some conservative circles, that older gay men prey on young boys to "recruit" them, we don't need to be perpetuating that narrative and celebrating pederasty when it appears in the media. Things like that do irk me, and I think gay men perpetuating that narrative is more pervasive than I'd like, when we also have the common fetishisation of near underage-looking twinks going on in the background too (if that's what you like individually then cool I guess, as long as they're not actually underage, but these men should not be the collective standard of beauty promoted among gays).

There are some serious issues with PR that I think pockets of "the gay community" have when it comes to how we're representing ourselves. Sorry but that does matter. We're not straight people, we're a minority and the sad reality is that the actions of a few are always going to be used as a representative of all of us. It should NOT be that way, but that's not changing, so we do have to be careful with what we exude and how we control our image.
This is a good say.
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Old 26-06-18, 05:32   #13
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The only time I'm bothered is when something really plays into negative stereotypes of gay men. An example of this is what I commented on in the LGBT group chatroom on this forum a few days ago. I saw a trailer for a movie Call Me By Your Name last year. For what I saw the movie basically revolves around some teenage boy, who apparently had a girlfriend, getting lovestruck by some 20-something man. I hate that narrative. When there is already a stereotype in some conservative circles, that older gay men prey on young boys to "recruit" them, we don't need to be perpetuating that narrative and celebrating pederasty when it appears in the media. Things like that do irk me, and I think gay men perpetuating that narrative is more pervasive than I'd like, when we also have the common fetishisation of near underage-looking twinks going on in the background too (if that's what you like individually then cool I guess, as long as they're not actually underage, but these men should not be the collective standard of beauty promoted among gays).
It's technically a depiction of bi men (or one bi, one gay, I guess) and Elio (17) lives in a country where the age of consent it 14, so go figure. But I get the overall message: the romanticization of men and boys (technically not a minor in terms of age of consent, but a minor as he's not yet reached the age of majority to be a legal adult). But it's mainly a social problem for the US (which is naturally the biggest consumer of this movie outside of Europe, where the ages of consent vary between 14-18).

It also feeds the stereotype of gay/bi men being cheaters, just like with Brokeback Mountain. Both of the men in BBM had wives they cheated on at some point (and it's arguable if it's a bi or gay movie - not sure if the short story it's based on clarifies that), but the defense is "they are against the world and sharing their forbidden love" which is supposed to make the infidelity better, due to the era and circumstances.
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Old 26-06-18, 08:53   #14
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You become more comfortable with yourself as you get older, and it starts with learning to accept and love yourself for who you are.
Yeah, I think this is very true. There's bunch of things about myself I really didn't accept when I was younger. Today I'm like: it is what it is... and I've learned to accept it.

Not exactly very deep advice, but true nonetheless.
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Old 26-06-18, 09:45   #15
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Yeah, I think this is very true.
I see not for everyone, unfortunately. Not saying me, or you, but the way things are going, it could be.
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Old 26-06-18, 09:50   #16
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I see not for everyone, unfortunately. Not saying me, or you, but the way things are going, it could be.
Of course. It's a very personal thing that only you can "solve".
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Old 26-06-18, 09:55   #17
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its exactly those type of people that broke the barriers and actually did something
Still doesn't mean most LGBT people fit that stereotype. There is nothing wrong with people that fit the stereotype, but it's kinda upsetting when people just assume we do things "gay people do". But the fault isn't on people that fit the stereotype, but from the people who are just simple minded enough to make shortcuts like that and assume they know many things about you that are just false, just because they actually know one trait about you.


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Another thing I dislike about the community. I see it so much. If I don't look a certain way, I'm on accepted, if I don't do certain things, I'm not accepted. I shouldn't have to do extra just because I'm gay.
You don't. Being gay is not something that defines you, it's just part of you. If you don't feel like doing something people usually do, just don't do it. You're not "part of some sect", you're just being yourself, it's just another trait, like what you prefer eating at breakfast. If "the community" doesn't accept you, then it's just that these people (those who told you that) are just a bunch of hypocritical people: LGBT community originally is about accepting differences, not having to fit labels. I repeat, this is not some kind of sect (unfortunately they seem to forget that sometimes).

Most cliches are actually true only for a part of the community. Most LGBT people can't be "distinguished" in anyway. I am gay, people don't even doubt a second I could be gay until I tell them. People usually think my boyfriend and I are just brothers (while we don't necessarily have common features, we just have the same "shape", glasses, short hair, and that's all).


I always force myself to talk about it normally (I just do it automatically now), without even coming out, because I just consider I don't have to come out to people when I meet them. Being gay is not something that should require coming out, I hope that won't have to happen anymore in a few years, so I just act like it was already the case, I think it's the best way to make it actually happen.

Actually, at the time I came out to myself, I slowly told close friends and wanted to be discrete about that. That was the beginning (about 4-5 years ago), and my family wasn't aware about it, and that was what I was most afraid of. But one friend, who I was close to, just "forgot" to be discrete one day (understand: she never meant to be discrete), she just told people like it was a normal thing, out loud, no matter who was around. When she starting doing that I was confused at first, but I didn't say anything, I saw how people didn't care, and it made me think about it, and I was just like "hey, this is the way it should be after all", and I actually couldn't thank her enough for doing that. This was exactly what I needed to feel confident about myself.
My family learned not so long after that, and they don't have any problem with it, so now I don't care anymore whether people know or not. I don't want it to sound like it's a reveal like I used to think it should be. I just act like a normal guy talking about his partner (cause that's what it is really), I just say "boyfriend" instead of "girlfriend" when I have to mention him, even when talking to people I barely know, and that's how people "discover" I'm gay. And they don't even talk about it, because it doesn't sound like a reveal, so they don't feel like reacting like it was a reveal, only like something they didn't know, and the discussion just continues.

I've been lucky, I haven't met homophobic people. There was just one guy who had "problems" with homosexuality as a whole, but I don't even see him anymore, and, good riddance. If he doesn't like me for that, then he's the stupid one, not me, I'm gay, I haven't chosen this, but he chose to be stupid. His thought, his problem, not mine.



Also, congrats on making this thread. It is very wise of you to reconsider how you used to think, it's a very hard task to do for anyone, and for this your past errors can just be forgiven. Let bygones be bygones. I really hope you'll find a way to be happy with yourself.
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Old 27-06-18, 00:27   #18
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You don't. Being gay is not something that defines you, it's just part of you. If you don't feel like doing something people usually do, just don't do it. You're not "part of some sect", you're just being yourself, it's just another trait, like what you prefer eating at breakfast. If "the community" doesn't accept you, then it's just that these people (those who told you that) are just a bunch of hypocritical people: LGBT community originally is about accepting differences, not having to fit labels. I repeat, this is not some kind of sect (unfortunately they seem to forget that sometimes).
Will do.

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Also, congrats on making this thread. It is very wise of you to reconsider how you used to think, it's a very hard task to do for anyone, and for this your past errors can just be forgiven. Let bygones be bygones. I really hope you'll find a way to be happy with yourself.
Thanks Joey79100.
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