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Old 17-07-18, 22:19   #51
Swiz19
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Out of 10 i guess! or 100. 1000000?
----
Rihanna did great things so far and Jill will only make things amazing level.

Great things? Where, is it hiding under the bad writing?

You know, if you're going to attempt to debate what I have said, then you're gonna have to make some points of your own.
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Old 17-07-18, 22:21   #52
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just cause you saw worse doesn't mean they aren't bad.
They weren't bad either! "Good" or "enough". Dominiguez looks especially amazing btw he has a great potential to be an AMAZING villian!
In the end i have seen a lot worse and in adventure games or movies like TR villians aren't something special either you only have certain expectations for them. Dominiguez looks something very special which i like and is NEEDED!! My expectations are higher this time.
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Old 17-07-18, 22:25   #53
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They weren't bad either! "Good" or "enough". Dominiguez looks especially amazing btw he has a great potential to be an AMAZING villian!
In the end i have seen a lot worse and in adventure games or movies like TR villians aren't something special either you only have certain expectations for them. Dominiguez looks something very special which i like and is NEEDED!! My expectations are higher this time.
What about all the guys in Rise and we can't say if Dominguez is good yet (plus he wasnt written by pratchett)

Remeber Larson, Pierre, Natla and Rutland? We've had WAY more fun and interesting villians that the game didnt have to scream were EEVVVIIIILLLLLLLLL every 5 seconds via sterotypical war movie atrocity moment.
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Old 17-07-18, 22:31   #54
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Great things? Where, is it hiding under the bad writing?

You know, if you're going to attempt to debate what I have said, then you're gonna have to make some points of your own.
I didn't see your post or probably ignored. If you haven't seen anything so far then i am not gonna make you see things anyway. I am talking about the overall work which is highly subjective.

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What about all the guys in Rise and we can't say if Dominguez is good yet (plus he wasnt written by pratchett)

Remeber Larson, Pierre, Natla and Rutland? We've had WAY more fun and interesting villians that the game didnt have to scream were EEVVVIIIILLLLLLLLL every 5 seconds via sterotypical war movie atrocity moment.
Again you have certain expectations for them and i just think it was good and i didn't say they were great! Only Shadow looks promising in that department but we'll see.
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Old 17-07-18, 22:38   #55
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I didn't see your post or probably ignored. If you haven't seen anything so far then i am not gonna make you see things anyway. I am talking about the overall work which is highly subjective.



Again you have certain expectations for them and i just think it was good and i didn't say they were great! Only Shadow looks promising in that department but we'll see.
Sfop with that Expectations nonsense give actual reasons for why you thought they were great.
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Old 17-07-18, 22:43   #56
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I didn't see your post or probably ignored. If you haven't seen anything so far then i am not gonna make you see things anyway. I am talking about the overall work which is highly subjective.
Lol... So you responded to a post that was giving me a 'gold star' by changing the context to make it sound like what I had said was wrong, or you disagreed with it. But you actually ignored what I originally said? Makes sense, good work.

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We don’t know if it would. I’d argue with deeper material to work with it might’ve mitigated some of the floundering about Rise and its characters did. If she’d experienced actual trauma, the adventure could’ve been the thing to free her and let her flourish.
I'm sorry, but no. We do know it would not have worked because what we have got previously seen really wasn't in depth, or well written at all. Going for a more harsh look at mental illness leaves a lot of room for criticism and quite frankly, none of the writers so far on *any* tomb raider game have proven themselves to be up for the task. It just would not have worked.

I'm not sure if you know this, but Lara always marched to the beat of her own drum. Sure, she was overtly feminine looking, but she always had (what some would consider) 'masculine power'. She was quite a confronting character for her time where she made her own rules instead of following them. She created her own destiny instead of allowing herself to be defined by trauma. Seriously, just take a look at classic Lara and reboot in simply the way they speak and act. They're completely unrelated.

The new Lara throws that out of the window to follow the stereotypical 'female is powerful because she was defined by overcoming mental illness' trope. Not to say that that trope isn't good, or shouldn't be explored in other stories. But it's not Lara. I don't like making comparison with Uncharted, but that's like turning Nathan Drake into Joel - a fun loving, fairly light character into an emotionally damaged character. Naughty dog know how to stay consistent and respects what makes their characters relatable and unique.

So yeah, Rise was awful, but so was Rhiannon's idea. They can make an amazing, relatable and recognisable Lara Croft without going down a road (mental illness) that just doesn't suit her.

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Old 17-07-18, 23:35   #57
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I'm sorry, but no. We do know it would not have worked because what we have got previously seen really wasn't in depth, or well written at all.
Because what we got didn’t have the appropriate depth. I’m suggesting they give it some. I don’t particularly want to see Lara Croft struggle with her mental health either, but regarding the sequel to TR13 in particular, it’s the most logical route to take. Ignoring the brutality of the first game to chase after her father’s redemption is less about an empowered Lara than overcoming mental obstacles and finding her footing, which even a previous game tried, AoD.

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She created her own destiny instead of allowing herself to be defined by trauma.
She wasn’t defined by trauma nor is that what I’m suggesting, in fact it’s the opposite; in my mind she’d refuse to give into the hurdle like her father did (remove the assassination plot, it sucks) and emerge liberated and someone of her own making, like the original crash in the Himalayas, but experienced inside and out.

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The new Lara throws that out of the window to follow the stereotypical 'female is powerful because she was defined by overcoming mental illness' trope.
The reboot games don’t depict Lara with mental illness at all, and like I said, I don’t want a Hellblade level of depth in representation. Just some consistency with what they started. They focused on a more human approach and subjecting her to hell, that should have consequences, ones that (to me) would have been compelling to see someone like Lara Croft explore. I mean, if she’s truly “completely unrelated” to Classic Lara, why not explore new ground?
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Old 18-07-18, 00:28   #58
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Out of 10 i guess! or 100. 1000000?
There are a lot of people who doesn't love what they've done with the reboot, but people are so quick to hate on them even when they explain why, so I just thought it was nice that I saw something I agree with.

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Dont forget "More cartoonishly evil than the nazis" Trinity, funny enough the city guards in thief 2014 (also done by pratchett) also talk about cartoonish acts of random murder (like slitting a random girls throat for no reason And laughing about it.) AND their leader is a pedophile as revealed in a heavy handed scene who also needlessly kills his own men for literally no reason in another,plus ruining the badass anti-hero that was Garrett. can't be Rihana pratchett is a bad writer who worked on both games!
I think Rihanna is just a bad writer with an inherently bad idea for Tomb Raider. She's like the woman who somehow get the job of restoring an old Jesus painting a few years ago and then just painted a monkey instead. Whenever I think about what Rihana's done... I get a little mad. She ruined Lara and the whole franchise quite honestly.

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Lol... So you responded to a post that was giving me a 'gold star' by changing the context to make it sound like what I had said was wrong, or you disagreed with it. But you actually ignored what I originally said? Makes sense, good work.

I'm sorry, but no. We do know it would not have worked because what we have got previously seen really wasn't in depth, or well written at all. Going for a more harsh look at mental illness leaves a lot of room for criticism and quite frankly, none of the writers so far on *any* tomb raider game have proven themselves to be up for the task. It just would not have worked.

I'm not sure if you know this, but Lara always marched to the beat of her own drum. Sure, she was overtly feminine looking, but she always had (what some would consider) 'masculine power'. She was quite a confronting character for her time where she made her own rules instead of following them. She created her own destiny instead of allowing herself to be defined by trauma. Seriously, just take a look at classic Lara and reboot in simply the way they speak and act. They're completely unrelated.

The new Lara throws that out of the window to follow the stereotypical 'female is powerful because she was defined by overcoming mental illness' trope. Not to say that that trope isn't good, or shouldn't be explored in other stories. But it's not Lara. I don't like making comparison with Uncharted, but that's like turning Nathan Drake into Joel - a fun loving, fairly light character into an emotionally damaged character. Naughty dog know how to stay consistent and respects what makes their characters relatable and unique.

So yeah, Rise was awful, but so was Rhiannon's idea. They can make an amazing, relatable and recognisable Lara Croft without going down a road (mental illness) that just doesn't suit her.
I'm on board with what you're saying. I don't know why the writing has deteriorated so much, but the decline is obvious. I wish they would spend more time developing a good story. Then hire good writers to make it believable. Naughty Dog nails this. Too bad that Tomb Raider fails at it so miserably.
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Old 18-07-18, 01:00   #59
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I can't be the only one who loved what Rhianna did with Lara. I thought she did a great job, especially with the limited creative freedom.
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Old 18-07-18, 10:20   #60
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I can't be the only one who loved what Rhianna did with Lara. I thought she did a great job, especially with the limited creative freedom.
No man! It's just this place full of haters even the devs community managers are most likely aware of that!
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