www.tombraiderforums.com

Go Back   www.tombraiderforums.com > Tomb Raider Series > Shadow of the Tomb Raider

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 22-10-18, 06:12   #171
Isaac
Relic Hunter
 
Isaac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Canada, Quebec, Montreal
Posts: 6,651
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by suli View Post
It's because the game catered more to the core fandom than the mainstream like with, say, reboot.
And you base this statement on what datas?...

I have a feeling that linear narrative-driven action games aren't mainstream anymore because people want more than what they pay for. Open world game is the thing presently.

So when a studio goes forward with a linear game, it need to be executed on point... And while Shadow is fun and all good (for me at least), it's a bit lackluster in term of depth. We have all these combat skills but little to no opportunity to use them, especially once you've completed the game. The exploration is great, best one since Reboot, but most hubs feel small... And the only big hub is a big mess filled with annoying NPCs... So there goes the exploration. The fact you can only climb specific ledges remove a bit of freedom and joy to explore too, which doesn't help. As for the story, the voice acting and the writing is okay-ish, so not really groundbreaking.

Therefore, Shadow felt like average game overall... And if it doesn't execute its main purposes (gameplay + story) adequately, then it doesn't have much else to offer. Co-Op in challenge tombs is cute, but how many of us are going to replay them many time?... Endurance mode offered more replay value because of its procedural nature.

Which brings me back to the fact that Shadow deserved more love and money from Square. We all saw CD take the Reboot formula and push it miles ahead with tons of new modes, more gadgets, more outfits, bigger world and so on with Rise of Tomb Raider. I'm sure they could have done it again. With time, money, and a vision, Shadow could have been pushed further.

But it falls short, especially around all the other big releases. Can't say I'm surprised of discounts, really.

Last edited by Isaac; 22-10-18 at 06:14.
Isaac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-18, 06:12   #172
Chamayoo
Professor
 
Chamayoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,426
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by suli View Post
i'm talking about the game not performing well critically and commercially. It's because the game catered more to the core fandom than the mainstream like with, say, reboot.
Come on, it's more complex than that.
The game has glitches issues and suffered for the reboot formula fatigue, they are important factors.
I'm sure if the next game will feel new enough and we'll be in excellently good quality, it could do very well even catering to the core fandom.
As for Shadow I will not comment the sales until official statements and about reviews I find the ones on Metacritic fine enough.

Last edited by Chamayoo; 22-10-18 at 06:14.
Chamayoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-18, 06:25   #173
suli
Professor
 
suli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Saudi Arabia
Posts: 2,867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac View Post
And you base this statement on what datas?...

I have a feeling that linear narrative-driven action games aren't mainstream anymore because people want more than what they pay for. Open world game is the thing presently.

So when a studio goes forward with a linear game, it need to be executed on point... And while Shadow is fun and all good (for me at least), it's a bit lackluster in term of depth. We have all these combat skills but little to no opportunity to use them, especially once you've completed the game. The exploration is great, best one since Reboot, but most hubs feel small... And the only big hub is a big mess filled with annoying NPCs... So there goes the exploration. The fact you can only climb specific ledges remove a bit of freedom and joy to explore too, which doesn't help. As for the story, the voice acting and the writing is okay-ish, so not really groundbreaking.

Therefore, Shadow felt like average game overall... And if it doesn't execute its main purposes (gameplay + story) adequately, then it doesn't have much else to offer. Co-Op in challenge tombs is cute, but how many of us are going to replay them many time?... Endurance mode offered more replay value because of its procedural nature.

Which brings me back to the fact that Shadow deserved more love and money from Square. We all saw CD take the Reboot formula and push it miles ahead with tons of new modes, more gadgets, more outfits, bigger world and so on with Rise of Tomb Raider. I'm sure they could have done it again. With time, money, and a vision, Shadow could have been pushed further.

But it falls short, especially around all the other big releases. Can't say I'm surprised of discounts, really.
you guys dragged Rise's story to FILTH and still the game was critically acclaimed and even won awards for its story.

I really think with current gaming journalism, Shadow was too boring. as matter of fact every review or walkthrough I see from a prominent gaming youtube channel, they play on easy, spam the I dunno what it's called (Lara's batman vision), and have the white paint slathered on everything, even lara if they can help it. Lack of combat was a major criticizing point...and to me that was one of the things I enjoyed the most as a lifelong fan of the series.

come to think of it, I don't think the bugs and glitches were even mentioned in a lot of the reviews
__________________
"She's just one girl!" - "That one girl is kicking our asses!"
suli is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-18, 06:30   #174
Horus-Goddess
Professor
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,380
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac View Post
with Rise of Tomb Raider. I'm sure they could have done it again. With time, money, and a vision, Shadow could have been pushed further.
Didn't Shadow have something like $100mil budget? Rise was said to have had about $75-$100mil so shouldn't that have been enough to make Shadow just as good? I know it's also down to who's working on it, and the direction its taken (honestly I think they really dropped the ball here). Seems to me they had just as much time and resources to work with, and its failures can be pinned on the people who worked on it, not the budget.

They did try to bring it back to classic elements and of course I do appreciate it, but in doing so, they left too many of the existing mechanics in tact that ended up barely used (like combat related skills etc). Adding new combat mechanics when there wasn't much combat seemed like a really misguided decision, or as if there were separate teams thinking up new features without making sure they actually worked well with each other.

It was just poorly handled in a lot of ways. I wish that it had been more. Maybe it's because they shifted the formula slightly that it threw things off but, either way those decisions were theirs alone.
__________________
"Vengeance begets nothing, but a vicious cycle of further vengeance..."
Horus-Goddess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-18, 06:56   #175
Emix
Relic Hunter
 
Emix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,061
Default

Exactly. For the budget Shadow was SUPPOSED to be better and much more polished game, that's what ppl were expecting and sadly it wasn't. Ppl have all rights to be disappointed especially after hearing their stories about Lara becoming who she is meant to be, becoming the TR, this being her defining moment... etc. And also about huge budget.

Also please let's not pretend like Shadow reviews on Steam were glowing before the sale. It was 74% and that's much worse compared to previous two games. Sale lowered it to 67% which makes everything even worse and a bigger mess.
Emix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-18, 07:07   #176
MuruCoder
Explorer
 
MuruCoder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emix View Post
Also please let's not pretend like Shadow reviews on Steam were glowing before the sale.
Good point. It's not like the discount backlash brought it down from 95%.

IMO the review bombers are for the most part the "new" crowd they wanted on board with the reboot. This negative bombing is a small price in exchange for getting their sweet money.

I also think that they shouldn't have gone with this "different edition" crap. They should have had a base game and season pass and then discount the base game alone. A discount on SP when none of the content is released is indeed a bad move and the hate is deserved. It would be understandable if 2-3 of SP content was out and early buyers already played them but at this point it feels such a mid finger for them.
__________________
File "tomb-raider-she-is-destined-to-be.lie" corrupted. Re-reboot? (Y/N) y
MuruCoder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-18, 08:05   #177
Vaskito
Professor
 
Vaskito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Portugal
Posts: 4,999
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emix View Post
Exactly. For the budget Shadow was SUPPOSED to be better and much more polished game, that's what ppl were expecting and sadly it wasn't. Ppl have all rights to be disappointed especially after hearing their stories about Lara becoming who she is meant to be, becoming the TR, this being her defining moment... etc. And also about huge budget.

Also please let's not pretend like Shadow reviews on Steam were glowing before the sale. It was 74% and that's much worse compared to previous two games. Sale lowered it to 67% which makes everything even worse and a bigger mess.
What do you know about gaming budgets? Are you 100% aware of where the Money is put into? I'm certainly not. All I know is TR2013 had a similar budget, and that on game development, money goes into many places many us don't even imagine.

The reviews weren't glowing, but they were mostly positive.
GTA V has mixed reviews, and in no way is a "mixed" game. Assassin's Creed is now sitting at 76% rating. Does this mean to you it's a terrible game?
PUBG has 49% approval rating, and yet it's one of the most successful games made.
Fallout 4 has mixed reviews
__________________
Beware the NNC - a.k.a. Negative Nancy Club

Last edited by Vaskito; 22-10-18 at 08:09.
Vaskito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-18, 08:08   #178
Grimaldi
Professor
 
Grimaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: The crowds of Cozumel
Posts: 2,729
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by suli View Post
you guys dragged Rise's story to FILTH and still the game was critically acclaimed and even won awards for its story.
Which goes to show that reviewers don’t know what they’re talking about.
__________________
Because I could not stop for death, he kindly stopped for me.
Grimaldi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-18, 08:09   #179
CroftManiac05
Explorer
 
CroftManiac05's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 728
Default

Hellblade : Senua's Sacrifice had a very tight budget, and yet it
has breathtaking graphics and great gameplay and story.
So no, big budget doesn't always mean it will be a good game.
__________________
Φιλας την αναπηρη?
CroftManiac05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-18, 08:15   #180
Vaskito
Professor
 
Vaskito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Portugal
Posts: 4,999
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CroftManiac05 View Post
Hellblade : Senua's Sacrifice had a very tight budget, and yet it
has breathtaking graphics and great gameplay and story.
So no, big budget doesn't always mean it will be a good game.
It was made by a "indie-team" of 20 people. It's normal it had a low budget. Nonetheless, you're absolutely right on your last statement
__________________
Beware the NNC - a.k.a. Negative Nancy Club
Vaskito is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.