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Old 07-12-17, 13:12   #581
Moon-Safari
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Trump will start WW3 in the name of peace. Why are Americans (at least the ones standing by this man) so short sighted and not see that?

How can anybody who is not amongst the super wealthy support his tax plan. Giving huge tax cuts to corporations and high earners. This so called "trickle down effect" never helps anyone except the wealthy and business owners. Wish people would wake up.

Corporations make millions but they don't pass it on to workers or lower income classes. Instead for example they send jobs off shore to save wages. They have no interest or desire to share spoils of tax cuts with others. Trump has so many followers from the working classes who blindly follow him but he really just continues to kick them in the teeth.
Much like Bernie Sanders who I once supported, many Americans don't understand simple economics. If you don't let the upper class keep their wealth, they will just move their wealth to an island somewhere (See: paradise papers). Why does it bother liberals so much that other people are allowed to keep their own money, and in the same breadth they'll demand we move towards a basic income where they can sit on their ass all day and have people hand them free things for doing absolutely nothing. The left is not reasonable!
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Old 07-12-17, 13:45   #582
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Much like Bernie Sanders who I once supported, many Americans don't understand simple economics. If you don't let the upper class keep their wealth, they will just move their wealth to an island somewhere (See: paradise papers). Why does it bother liberals so much that other people are allowed to keep their own money, and in the same breadth they'll demand we move towards a basic income where they can sit on their ass all day and have people hand them free things for doing absolutely nothing. The left is not reasonable!
If the rich are making X and thinking “Gee wiz, I should move this to an offshore account. That’ll help me save my money and evade taxes.”

Why on earth would they make 2 times X, 4 times X, 10 times X, etc and then suddenly “I should stop moving my wealth to an offshore account. I have enough money.”

That’s not how that works. They’ll move their money to an island regardless of how much they’re getting. The rich will just make sure their pockets get fuller, larger, deeper, while not putting that back into the economy. What’s wrong with them paying their fair share of taxes? If they get tax cuts who are paying the taxes they ain’t paying?
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Old 07-12-17, 14:11   #583
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If the rich are making X and thinking “Gee wiz, I should move this to an offshore account. That’ll help me save my money and evade taxes.”

Why on earth would they make 2 times X, 4 times X, 10 times X, etc and then suddenly “I should stop moving my wealth to an offshore account. I have enough money.”

That’s not how that works. They’ll move their money to an island regardless of how much they’re getting. The rich will just make sure their pockets get fuller, larger, deeper, while not putting that back into the economy. What’s wrong with them paying their fair share of taxes? If they get tax cuts who are paying the taxes they ain’t paying?
There is no fair share of other people's money. Getting mad at rich people for being successful and self made is like being mad at an Olympic athlete for being able to jump higher than you. They are not greedy for getting those extra inches off the ground. People don't argue that they should give some of their skill up to others because they've earned enough. But with business people the excellence that creates jobs and products is a punishable offense. And there are corporations like Facebook Amazon google and the big 6 networks that are ****ing out of control and need to be regulated. But that has nothing to do with how much money they make. Their business practices are unethical and THAT is what needs to be addressed.
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Old 07-12-17, 14:31   #584
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Most rich people are just born that way. An athlete has to work hard to be successful. People who are very rich, most of the time, are just already rich, they didn't earn it.
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Old 07-12-17, 15:01   #585
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As a practical matter, I don't ever see this happening because the government so loves to play shell games with the money.
Yeah, I know. *sigh*

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At the risk of sounding too sarcastic, I think that what I have bolded is a frigging pipe dream. Guaranteed minimum income? In America? Horrors!
I don't expect it anytime soon, but I can't see any other way for this to end in the long-term. Sooner or later there will be a tipping-point where there just aren't enough jobs and too many people are homeless or on welfare. The only logical thing to do is break up the existing jobs and spread them out among more people (like having four people work 20 hours a week instead of one person working 80 hours because he's terrified of losing the only job he could find so he puts up with working himself to death). We shouldn't have the situation where one person is forced to work unpaid overtime just to keep his job while other people can't find a full-time job at all. It seems so obvious to me that it would be better for everyone to be working part-time than for half the people working overtime and the other half unemployed on welfare. If we're going to be paying so much in welfare anyway, then it's more fair to spread the work around as well as the welfare money.

And like I said before, if people had the freedom to quit an exploitative job, then I think wages would rise to what the jobs are really worth, so there'd probably be less need for supplemental income anyway. It might not even need to be that high, just high enough to ensure people don't starve or go homeless if they are unemployed for a few months while they look for a better job.

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Been watching this. Apparently a fair number of Jews in the USA are worried by this move as well. I don't think it can lead to anything but more violence.

North Korea is now saying that "war is unavoidable" too.
I'm not too worried about the Jerusalem thing. I don't know if it was the best move, but I don't think it's horrible either. The way I see it, there will never be peace in the Middle East as long as Hamas exists. It would be better if Palestinians got rid of Hamas themselves, but that doesn't seem likely to happen anytime soon.

Hypothetically if Israel just went in and totally destroyed Hamas' infrastructure, then that probably would lead to peace happening sooner rather than later. I don't think other Middle Eastern countries would get involved. They'll say it's horrible and denounce Israel, but they don't want Hamas to win either (if Hamas somehow succeeded in killing all Jews in Israel, then they'd start going after "apostate" Muslim leaders in nearby countries and nobody wants that). And I really don't see why the US, Russia, or Europe would get involved militarily, so I really don't see this escalating to WWIII.

I'm much more concerned about North Korea. I don't think their current leader is self-destructive so he's probably not going to use nukes, but Trump is really pushing things. Ivanka needs to change his Twitter password without telling him
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Old 07-12-17, 16:41   #586
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The problem with moving the capital of Israel has nothing to do with Israel's security and EVERYTHING to do with fundamentalists' eschatology. There are people in America who would love nothing more than for war to break out in the Middle East because they believe it will signal the return of Jesus Christ. And yes, our pagan president is being advised by them.
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Old 07-12-17, 17:35   #587
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The problem with moving the capital of Israel has nothing to do with Israel's security and EVERYTHING to do with fundamentalists' eschatology. There are people in America who would love nothing more than for war to break out in the Middle East because they believe it will signal the return of Jesus Christ. And yes, our pagan president is being advised by them.
I agreed with Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital although I accept that there are good arguments against. This however makes no sense at all.
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Old 07-12-17, 17:37   #588
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There are people in America who would love nothing more than for war to break out in the Middle East because they believe it will signal the return of Jesus Christ.
I still remember a few years ago when I found out about that. I was so shocked that's a thing that exists O_O

But anyhow, Israel wants the move and they're responsible for their own security, so I'm just assuming that they know what they're getting into and they can handle it.


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I agreed with Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital although I accept that there are good arguments against. This however makes no sense at all.
A lot of Evangelical Christians support Israel because they think that its existence means the end is near and the rapture will happen, so they're somehow making Christ come back early by helping Israel to exist. There are so many things wrong with that on a logical level, but they vote and it's what they want, so Trump is pandering to them. He talked to Israel first though, so at least he didn't spring this on them out of the blue and they had time to prepare for the announcement.
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Old 07-12-17, 17:53   #589
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A lot of Evangelical Christians support Israel because they think that its existence means the end is near and the rapture will happen, so they're somehow making Christ come back early by helping Israel to exist. There are so many things wrong with that on a logical level, but they vote and it's what they want, so Trump is pandering to them. He talked to Israel first though, so at least he didn't spring this on them out of the blue and they had time to prepare for the announcement.
Yes I'm aware of that but the idea that this decision is all part of some plot to incite war in the Middle East in order to placate evangelicals is pure fantasy.
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Old 07-12-17, 18:20   #590
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Originally Posted by Moon-Safari View Post
Much like Bernie Sanders who I once supported, many Americans don't understand simple economics. If you don't let the upper class keep their wealth, they will just move their wealth to an island somewhere (See: paradise papers). Why does it bother liberals so much that other people are allowed to keep their own money, and in the same breadth they'll demand we move towards a basic income where they can sit on their ass all day and have people hand them free things for doing absolutely nothing. The left is not reasonable!
What you don't seem to understand is that once you reach a certain level of wealth it just flows to you without you having to lift a finger to get it. It isn't EARNED, it's just made for you and given to you. You know, sort of like a basic income. One that allows you to buy yachts and diamonds and fur coats instead of just paying the rent on a crummy flat and paying for some groceries. Do you actually think that most of the really rich are actually doing useful work to make their money? Do you think that Steve Jobs was personally running around on the factory floor assembling 8000 iPhones a day all by himself to bulk up his illicit offshore accounts? Wake up. They even have their own teams of personal financial advisors to do what little "work" their is in that sphere so they don't have to be distracted from their pleasures to deal with that ugly old money business.

Insofar as them being able to set offshore accounts with impunity, that is because the whole system is set up for the rich in the first place. If they can nail drug lords and seize their illicit accounts, don't you think they could do the same with plundering CEOs if they really wanted to?

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The problem with moving the capital of Israel has nothing to do with Israel's security and EVERYTHING to do with fundamentalists' eschatology. There are people in America who would love nothing more than for war to break out in the Middle East because they believe it will signal the return of Jesus Christ. And yes, our pagan president is being advised by them.
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I agreed with Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital although I accept that there are good arguments against. This however makes no sense at all.
Actually, Mad Tony, there ARE crazy Christians who believe that Armageddon in the Middle East will bring back Jesus, and they pray for it. Ask Sierra, she probably knows a few. IIRC the Jews also have a myth that when the Temple of Jerusalem is built and destroyed for the third time it will bring about the end of the world. How do you know some of the Krazy Khristian republicans from the Bible Belt aren't trying to bring that about under the table?
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