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Old 11-07-18, 21:31   #1
Samz
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Post Anyone else feel like Lara never really stops being reactive?

Just a thing that occurred to me today, Lara's "Arc" Is that she becomes a pro-active survivor, or something, but the fact is she never really "chooses" to go into danger except MAYBE the Sam rescue that led to the Helicopter (and I may actually be mis-remembering that part.)

I know some people will say "She wanted to save the Pilot", okay, Fair enough, but did she actually have a CHOICE though?, no, because she had to fall down the hill to avoid the plane, so she could only go fowards, which led to the pilot.

Intentionally or not, the emphasis on linear gameplay/Dramatic events manages to drasticly undercut Lara's supposed growth, even if you discount the fact she's a slaughter machine from the start, Lara NEVER had the choice to avoid anything, even when she goes to rescue Sam at the end, she still had to get rid of Himiko in order to actually leave the Island, it wasn't "Leave Island or Rescue Sam" it was "Defeat Himiko to Rescue Sam and leave the Island", Plus the game with its overlly limited nature, for me, at least, felt like Lara never really CHOOSE to do anything, it was just the only way available to her to go fowards or after certain "Cinematic" sequences, literally the only way for her to go that wasn't staying exactly where she was.
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Old 11-07-18, 21:50   #2
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The pilot wasn’t in her path, he landed by the monastery which was out of the way. Lara chose to follow him, like she chose to head into the palace to rescue Sam (Roth asks if her if she’s sure, but she’s made up her mind), chose to force the pilot to land at gun point, to search the shipwrecks for tools, salvage some from Alex (had she not decided to go, they’d have been lost with him), chose to raid the general’s tomb and lead the group to end the storms. Even entering the wolf den was a choice.

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Lara NEVER had the choice to avoid anything, even when she goes to rescue Sam at the end, she still had to get rid of Himiko in order to actually leave the Island, it wasn't "Leave Island or Rescue Sam" it was "Defeat Himiko to Rescue Sam and leave the Island",
I don’t get your point. Lara had to defeat the dragon to get her prize in TR2 too, why is saving Sam by defeating the relevant antagonist a bad thing?
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Old 11-07-18, 21:58   #3
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The pilot wasn’t in her path, he landed by the monastery which was out of the way. Lara chose to follow him, like she chose to head into the palace to rescue Sam (Roth asks if her if she’s sure, but she’s made up her mind), chose to force the pilot to land at gun point, to search the shipwrecks for tools, salvage some from Alex (had she not decided to go, they’d have been lost with him), chose to raid the general’s tomb and lead the group to end the storms. Even entering the wolf den was a choice.



I don’t get your point. Lara had to defeat the dragon to get her prize in TR2 too, why is saving Sam by defeating the relevant antagonist a bad thing?
Yeah, but did Lara have a choice in the level design is what (I sorta badly worded) was trying to get at, I was thinking of the plane pilot, but I think it was the same deal for the helicopter pilot, I personally never got the impression Lara had a choice, for most of the game, Lara just had a straight path to go through, and it happened to let her out near the thing most of the time, as for the Sam thing:

In Tomb Raider 2, Lara could frankly, have called it quits for a good part of the game, she could have went "Italian cultists? screw that!" and gave up at the Great wall (or maybe even the first part of Venice since she climbed the chainlink fence off-screen), she could have flew the cargo plane NOT to Tibet, but to London or some other safe place.

In tomb raider, Lara NEVER had the choice to leave the island for ANY of the game, she had to go fowards on a linear path that would disposit her where she needed to be, for the Plane Pilot, for instance, while Roth does do his "Can't save everyone" nonesense, Lara actually COULDN'T avoid going to him, the path behind he was impassable, she had to move fowarad and thats where the Pilot happened to be.

In the case of Sam, while local-black-girl Reyes WANTS to leave, Himiko would have destroyed the Boat, so Lara never actually HAD a choice in that, she had to go after Himiko to escape the Island in the first place, its not like she possibly gave her up chance at escape to save her or anything, which I feel is one of the (many) things that undercuts Lara's Growth, she ultimately never had a choice for most of the game.
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Old 11-07-18, 22:23   #4
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Does any Lara have a choice when it comes to level design, though? The pilot isn’t in her path; after you reunite with Roth, you have the entire mountain village hub to explore. It isn’t a straight line to him and in the plot Lara could’ve decided to not follow.

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In Tomb Raider 2, Lara could frankly, have called it quits for a good part of the game, she could have went "Italian cultists? screw that!"
Could she, though, knowing what they intended to do with the artefact? She chose to destroy the Scion and stop Natla from taking over the world, I don’t think she’d sit by to allow Bartoli to unleash his dragon self and an army, just like she stopped Willard and Set. In the same way, Lara in TR13 “has” to defeat Himiko, but could have chosen not to, like Reyes proposed. Sailing off into the storms is about as practical as letting the Italians wreak havoc with the dagger, which you seem to be saying is a valid choice classic Lara could make.

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In tomb raider, Lara NEVER had the choice to leave the island for ANY of the game, she had to go fowards on a linear path that would disposit her where she needed to be
Well, yes, the premise was being trapped on the island. The goal was to find a way to leave, through choices Lara makes to survive and escape.
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Old 11-07-18, 22:26   #5
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Does any Lara have a choice when it comes to level design, though? The pilot isn’t in her path; after you reunite with Roth, you have the entire mountain village hub to explore. It isn’t a straight line to him and in the plot Lara could’ve decided to not follow.
I was trying to say about the Plane Pilot after the Radio Tower, the plane nearly crashes into Lara, leaving her stranded on the side of the mountain, She sees the pilot parachute out, goes the only way she can go (Towards him) and calls Roth sometime on the way (can't remember exactly when) how she's gonna go save him, Roth tells her not to,but the fact is, its a straight path on the Side of the cliff, she has no other choice, Other Lara's technically could have given up anytime she changes Country, but Camilla Lara simply just had a straight line. (The hubs are also pretty enclosed and Lara only really has the Previous Area and the way Ahead as options.)
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Old 11-07-18, 22:42   #6
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Right, but I’ve never referred to the first pilot, only the second who Roth tries to stop her from going after. She doesn’t tell him about the first pilot at all, they only talk after he’s been stabbed.

Reboot Lara could’ve given up at several different points too, it doesn’t matter that she’s confined to the island, the previous Laras were often similarly bound to an obligation to see their adventure through, usually an apocalypse or an antagonist’s plans, or even a personal obsession like the Legend trilogy.
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Old 11-07-18, 23:02   #7
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Right, but I’ve never referred to the first pilot, only the second who Roth tries to stop her from going after. She doesn’t tell him about the first pilot at all, they only talk after he’s been stabbed.

Reboot Lara could’ve given up at several different points too, it doesn’t matter that she’s confined to the island, the previous Laras were often similarly bound to an obligation to see their adventure through, usually an apocalypse or an antagonist’s plans, or even a personal obsession like the Legend trilogy.
Personally, I feel like staying on the Island is akin to a Death sentence for Lara, compared to heading off to Croft manor for tea, and fridging (Yes fridging is a verb now, I'm not lying! ) Butlers, but to each their own.
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Old 11-07-18, 23:35   #8
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Does any Lara have a choice when it comes to level design, though? The pilot isn’t in her path; after you reunite with Roth, you have the entire mountain village hub to explore. It isn’t a straight line to him and in the plot Lara could’ve decided to not follow.
Lol. This reminds me; you know how there's always that one optional tomb that you encounter on your way to Captain Jessop? During every playthrough I always ventured inside of that tomb thinking "Captain Jessop can wait a few more minutes".
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Old 12-07-18, 00:11   #9
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Lol. This reminds me; you know how there's always that one optional tomb that you encounter on your way to Captain Jessop? During every playthrough I always ventured inside of that tomb thinking "Captain Jessop can wait a few more minutes".
Same here!
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Old 12-07-18, 00:15   #10
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And people say reboot Lara doesn’t like raiding tombs.

Jessop: Help! I need immediate aid!
Lara: Oh, I’ve got time. *aggressively turns cranks* *gasp of awe*
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